From: les@jmdl.com (JMDL Digest) To: joni-digest@smoe.org Subject: JMDL Digest V2001 #406 Reply-To: joni@smoe.org Sender: les@jmdl.com Errors-To: les@jmdl.com Precedence: bulk Unsubscribe: mailto:joni-digest-request@smoe.org?body=unsubscribe Archives: http://www.smoe.org/lists/joni Websites: http://www.jmdl.com http://www.jonimitchell.com JMDL Digest Friday, September 14 2001 Volume 2001 : Number 406 The Official Joni Mitchell Homepage, created by Wally Breese, can be found at http://www.jonimitchell.com. It contains the latest news, a detailed bio, Original Interviews, essays, lyrics and much much more. The JMDL website can be found at http://www.jmdl.com and contains interviews, articles, the member gallery, archives, and much more. ========== TOPICS and authors in this Digest: -------- Today's Articles: September 14 [les@jmdl.com] Today in Joni History: September 14 [les@jmdl.com] RE: Paz and Marcel (NJC) [M.Russell@iaea.org] RE: Ode to Topsfield - NJC [M.Russell@iaea.org] RE: Julian of Norwich (NJC) [M.Russell@iaea.org] Fwd: Fw: Americans Show Unity Against Terrorism - Friday, Sept. 14,20 01 [Kammass@aol.co] NJC a question about security NJC ["Robert Holliston" ] Subject: Aching........ (NJC) ["Kate Bennett" ] Some thoughts (long) (njc) [Kay Ashley ] St Pauls [colin ] Re: Some thoughts (long) (njc) [colin ] Re: Some thoughts (long) (njc) [Janet Hess ] Re: onlyJMDL Digest V2001 #285 [StDoherty@aol.com] Re: Some thoughts (long) (njc) ["hell" ] Re: Some thoughts (long) (njc) [Kammass@aol.com] Re: Some thoughts (long) (njc) [SCJoniGuy@aol.com] Re: marcel - njc [] Kay Ashley's post (NJC) ["Bree Mcdonough" ] Re: NJC a question about security NJC [Don Rowe ] Let music soothe your soul [RobSher50@aol.com] Re: Nostradamus on Joni? (njc) ["Lori R. Fye" ] ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Fri, 14 Sep 2001 03:07:34 -0400 From: les@jmdl.com Subject: Today's Articles: September 14 On September 14 this article was published: 2000: "Joni Mitchell, the homecoming queen" - Toronto Globe and Mail (News Item) http://www.jmdl.com/articles/docs/000914tgam.cfm - ------------------------ The JMDL Article Database has 633 titles. http://www.jmdl.com/articles ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 14 Sep 2001 03:07:34 -0400 From: les@jmdl.com Subject: Today in Joni History: September 14 On September 14 in Joni Mitchell History: 1974: Joni performs at Wembley Stadium in Wembley, England. Others performing at this same event - attended by 72,000 people - were CSN&Y, Jesse Colin Young and The Band. More info: http://www.jmdl.com/articles/docs/740921s.cfm http://www.jmdl.com/today/740914.cfm 1979: Joni performs at the Greek Theater in Los Angeles. A few days later, the LA Commerce Tribune publishes a review of the concert entitled "Joni Mitchell: A Reaffirmation". "Backed by an outstanding four-piece jazz unit, Mitchell gave the sold-out house one of the musical highlights of the summer as she skated ever the various stages of her career in a 90- minute performance that reaffirmed her position as one of the finest singer-songwriters in the business." More info: http://www.jonimitchell.com/LACommerce79.html - ------------------------ Search the "Today" database: http://www.jmdl.com/today ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 14 Sep 2001 09:46:23 +0200 From: M.Russell@iaea.org Subject: RE: Paz and Marcel (NJC) On 13 September 2001 21:28, Kakki [SMTP:KakkiB@worldnet.att.net] wrote: > is going through right now. But what kind of friend would I be to Paz to > sit here quietly as he was being brought into something he did not deserve? Michael Paz is the most loving, open, kind-hearted, and generous man I have ever had the good fortune to know and I feel very blessed that such a great soul is part of our list. He has been and continues to be an inspiration to me to strive to be more open, more loving, and more generous in my interactions with other people. Like Joni, Princess Diana, Mother Teresa, and his mother, Ruth Paz, I think he is one of those people who shows us what is possible - a light in the world. Marcel is also a very generous person and a talented musician. He went to the trouble to buy and send me as a gift a portable cassette tape recorder that I can use when I perform or when I'm just fooling around on the guitar at home. It was his idea to do this - he said "I want to do this for you" and he did. I was very touched by this gesture. Our political views are completely opposite, but I think the goals we have for ourselves and our families are not that different - we just see different paths/means to achieving the same ends. I can disagree with his politics without disliking him as a person. I am very sad to hear that he has been banished and I wish Les would reconsider his decision. It takes at least two people to have an argument and I don't think Marcel is the only offender here. Whenever the flame wars begin, I usually feel surprised, usually in the very beginning, by what sets people off. Often my interpretation of a post that has upset somebody else is totally neutral or indifferent. Isn't it well known that the way we put words together can cause problems in communication with others because we all have such totally different realities and different emotional buttons? I think it would help in the future if we would all resolve to give each other the benefit of the doubt and not just immediately react in a negative way to something that we might not have understood. Ask questions: "What did you mean by this?" "It seems like you were saying xxxxxx - is that right?" I usually don't read the arguments, because I don't have the energy to try to understand them. But I felt at one point that Michael was attacked because he called Marcel his friend. Well I call Marcel my friend. Just because you don't like someone doesn't mean that I can't like them. Just because I like someone you don't like doesn't mean that I don't like you. We all have the right to call friends whomever we choose and we all have the right to have our choices respected. We are all in a state of emotional shock and I think at this point, forgiveness is what is needed - of Michael, of Debra, of Marcel, of Azeem, of me for writing this post which is probably outdated and stupid by now, of ourselves. This is a dark time and we don't need to be making it any darker than it already is. Sincerely, Marian Vienna ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 14 Sep 2001 10:00:38 +0200 From: M.Russell@iaea.org Subject: RE: Ode to Topsfield - NJC What a beautiful poem, Hell. Jonifests are very special - thank you for reminding me of their brightness and joy. Marian On 13 September 2001 22:34, hell [SMTP:hell@ihug.co.nz] wrote: > I've been debating posting this to the list. It seemed OK when I first > wrote it, but on reflection it's a little more sugary that I'd normally > like. But in view of recent events and the disharmony on the list, I > thought it couldn't hurt. This was penned a couple of days after Jonifest > 2001. > > Ode to Topsfield > > Here I am remembering > Great times shared with wonderful friends > And wishing I was back there still > But all good things must end > > The laughter and the music > Kindred spirits and the joining of souls > The feeling of camaraderie > Many pieces becoming the whole > > We are bonded across the oceans > Not diminished by being apart > Though many days may pass 'til we meet again > I'm forever holding you in my heart. > > Hell > ____________________________ > "To have great poets, there must be > great audiences too." - Walt Whitman > > hell@ihug.co.nz > Hell's Personal Photo Page: > http://homepages.ihug.co.nz/~hell/main/personal.htm > > Visit the NBLs (Natural Born Losers) at: > http://www.nbls.co.nz ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 14 Sep 2001 10:12:27 +0200 From: M.Russell@iaea.org Subject: RE: Julian of Norwich (NJC) Dear Ashara, I want to call you and I want you to sing me this song over the phone until I learn it! Is is a folk song? What are the origins? Thank you for sharing it. Marian On 14 September 2001 02:13, AsharaJM@aol.com [SMTP:AsharaJM@aol.com] wrote: > > > BELLS OF NORWICH > > Loud are the bells of Norwich , and the people come and go. > Here by the town of Julian, I tell you what I know. > > Chorus: Ring out, Bells of Norwich, and let the winter come and go. > All shall be well again, I know. > > Love like the yellow daffodil is coming through the snow. > Love like the yellow daffodil, it touches all I know. > > Chorus. > > Ring for the yellow daffodil, a flower in the snow. > Ring for the yellow daffodil, and tell them what I know. > > Chorus. > > Final Chorus: All shall be well, m telling you, > Let the winter come and go. > All shall be well again, I know. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 14 Sep 2001 04:28:12 EDT From: Kammass@aol.com Subject: Fwd: Fw: Americans Show Unity Against Terrorism - Friday, Sept. 14,20 01 In a message dated 9/13/2001 9:36:19 PM Central Daylight Time, DorstenFamily writes: > > >> A democratic, peaceful message >> >> >> Friday Night at 7:00 p.m. step out your door, stop your car, or step out of >> your establishment and light a candle. We will show the world that >> Americans are strong and united together against terrorism. Please pass >> this >> to everyone on your e-mail list. We need to reach everyone across the >> United >> States quickly. The message: WE STAND UNITED - WE WILL NOT TOLERATE >> TERRORISM! >> >> Thank you. >> >> We need press to cover this - we need the world to see. Return-path: From: DorstenFamily@aol.com Full-name: DorstenFamily Message-ID: Date: Thu, 13 Sep 2001 22:36:19 EDT Subject: Fwd: Fw: Americans Show Unity Against Terrorism - Friday, Sept. 14,20 01 To: Kammass@aol.com, elya1@home.com, luvpoohsnurse@home.com, MTBANGEL@aol.com, FrickFamily1@aol.com, recover001@earthlink.net, Mags949319@aol.com, JimTarwater@yahoo.com, SGray@onecam.com, Mbasjgs@aol.com, DREXWELCH@aol.com, JVega@edgenet.com, SeanR127@bellsouth.net, sbjshill@home.com, JoshandCandace@earthlink.net, klneal@atl.mediaone.net, RichieM@diebold.com, ESeiler@home.com, Johns32b4@yahoo.com, WVWTJW@aol.com, Spiveyland@cs.com, Coolrun@prodigy.net, Jodpdd@aol.com, scott@mhjob.com, 2love@myself.com, MJJR1@Yahoo.com, clwelding@home.com, mwalters@usthq.com, RKStricklin@aol.com, sigmon@bellsouth.net, kennk@laureatecap.com, DorstenFamily@aol.com, andrea_rein@hotmail.com, scottconsulting@worldnet.att.net, CThor63858@aol.com, ejt3@charter.net, itchmt@home.com, DrThornton@home.com, TThorn8375@aol.com, LBWeimar@yahoo.com, BKWilliams@charter.net, kfwyatt@dellepro.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" X-Mailer: AOL 6.0 for Windows US sub 10536 X-Converted-To-Plain-Text: from multipart/mixed by demime 0.97c X-Converted-To-Plain-Text: Alternative section used was text/plain Return-path: From: PurdueKappa@aol.com Full-name: PurdueKappa Message-ID: <133.1845b1e.28d26c5e@aol.com> Date: Thu, 13 Sep 2001 16:09:02 EDT Subject: Fwd: Fw: Americans Show Unity Against Terrorism - Friday, Sept. 14,20 01 To: DorstenFamily@aol.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" X-Mailer: AOL 6.0 for Windows US sub 10536 X-Converted-To-Plain-Text: from multipart/mixed by demime 0.97c X-Converted-To-Plain-Text: Alternative section used was text/plain Return-path: From: NGBROOKS@aol.com Full-name: NG BROOKS Message-ID: <54.1acf5c63.28d240ca@aol.com> Date: Thu, 13 Sep 2001 13:03:06 EDT Subject: Fwd: Fw: Americans Show Unity Against Terrorism - Friday, Sept. 14,20 01 To: Brett.Holladay@Columbia.net, JBURKEDO@aol.com, serenacc@wans.net, donnaho@gacs.pvt.k12.ga.us, DHolla7658@aol.com, GAYLEHOLLADAY@JUNO.COM, Fred.Holladay@nfib.org, GUY_BROOKS@MEDSTAT.COM, kholladay@stokesbartholomew.com, RHolladay@asurion.com, JANAPNP@aol.com, Krister.Holladay@mail.house.gov, lflatt@usit.net, mknorto@nortelnetworks.com, edpuff@mindspring.com, Saraross@aol.com, PurdueKappa@aol.com, amyv@wcs.edu, iowakaren@myrealbox.com, Cgwiller@aol.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" X-Mailer: AOL 6.0 for Windows US sub 10536 X-Converted-To-Plain-Text: from multipart/mixed by demime 0.97c X-Converted-To-Plain-Text: Alternative section used was multipart/alternative In a message dated 9/13/01 11:23:51 AM Central Daylight Time, jennifer@brooksandassoc.com writes: > A democratic, peaceful message > > > Friday Night at 7:00 p.m. step out your door, stop your car, or step out of > your establishment and light a candle. We will show the world that > Americans are strong and united together against terrorism. Please pass > this > to everyone on your e-mail list. We need to reach everyone across the > United > States quickly. The message: WE STAND UNITED - WE WILL NOT TOLERATE > TERRORISM! > > Thank you. > > We need press to cover this - we need the world to see. Return-Path: Received: from rly-zd02.mx.aol.com (rly-zd02.mail.aol.com [172.31.33.226]) by air-zd02.mail.aol.com (v80.17) with ESMTP id MAILINZD25-0913122350; Thu, 13 Sep 2001 12:23:50 -0400 Received: from pilate.telalink.net (pilate.telalink.net [207.152.1.18]) by rly-zd02.mx.aol.com (v80.21) with ESMTP id MAILRELAYINZD29-0913122248; Thu, 13 Sep 2001 12:22:48 -0400 Received: from mail.telalink.net (death.telalink.net [207.152.1.12]) by pilate.telalink.net (8.9.1/10.00v-fbmx-blkspam) with ESMTP id KAA23662; Thu, 13 Sep 2001 10:07:02 -0500 X-Envelope-To: cradles01@aol.com Received: from ([207.234.96.232]) by mail1.telalink.net (MTA-v4.9.1/0.0a-fbmx) with SMTP id QAA29527; Thu, 13 Sep 2001 16:31:51 GMT Message-ID: <00bb01c13c6c$3c1f3fe0$e860eacf@brooksandassoc.com> From: "Jennifer Brooks" To: "Jane Zubulake" , , "Corinne Wright" , "Maureen Wilde" , "Randolph Whiteside" , "Cyndee Whitaker" , "Steve and Kristy Wells" , "Brenda Vogt" , "Celeste Viola" , "Mike Thompson" , "Tricia Thiessen" , "Todd Thiessen" , "Judy Thiessen" , "Gary Thiessen" , "Emmett and Judy Thiessen" , "Ben Thiessen" , "Billy Thaw" , "Mary Tate" , "Lori Sweet" , "Kathy Sullivan" , "Eddie Stephens" , "Louise Stark" , "Connie Spivey" , "Tim and Debby Smith" , "Mitch and Velvet Simmons" , , "Robin Schwing" , "Marion Schreiner" , "Linda Sandifer" <110740.3344@compuserve.com>, , "anna ritter" , "Monique Richards" , "Monique Richards" , "Maureen Reynolds" , "Mary Jo Reynolds" , "Martha Reynolds" , "Margaret Reynolds" , "Lanie Reynolds" , "Lanie Reynolds" , "James Reynolds" , "Ed Reynolds" , , "Reed, Susan" , "Jackie Ray" , "Wendy Randall" , "Donna Radford" , "Jamie Potter" , "Peggy Plummer" , "Kellie Plummer" , "Stacey Pitts" , "Scarlett Pierce" , "Marie Patton" , "Jane Osumi" , "Adrianne Ohrt" , "Amy Nelson" , "Audrey Morris" , , "Tom Millea" , "Mom Millea" , "Meghan Millea" , "James Millea" , "Michael McNulty" , "Sara Lee McLindon" , "Mary Grace McGowan" , "Carrie McCarthy" , "Joe Mayne" , "Rogie Mayhew" , , , "Delisa Locke" , "Leisa Lacroix" , , "Hilda Krueger" , "Reese Klepacz" , "Jennifer Kitchens" , "Brandon Killebrew" , "Maura Kelley" , "Beth Keith" , "Sharon Kardokus" , "Carolyn Jones" , "Carmen Johnson" , , "Gretchen Jackson" , "Lynn Isaac" , "Anna Irby" , "Fred and Ken Howell" , "Winnie Holmes" , "Beth Holmes" , "Andy Holmes" , "Terry Harrison" , "Maxine Hargrove" , "Rory Hall" , "Darlene Greer" , "darlene Greer \(work\)" , , "Kelley Graham" , "Angela Farmer" , "Chris Emerick" , "Chris Emerick" , "Jean Duncan" , "Chrissy Douglas" , , "Davis, Ken \(ICP\)" , "Ken Davis" , "Cradles and Crayons" , "Cook, Will" , "Lori Coady" , , "Clunan, Elizabeth" , , "June Christian" , "Chris Childress" , , "Randy Cates" , , "Leigh Anne Brown" , "Guy and Nikki Brooks" , "Guy Brooks" , "Dee Brooks" , "Brooks" , "Mary Brandis" , "Georgia Boone" , , "Carla Bjork" , "Birch, Timothy" , "Chris Besand" , "Elisa Berry" , "Mary Bernard" , "Cheryl Beck" , "Arrowhead Realty" , "Renee Arnold" , "Paula Arnold" , "Angie" , "Allen, Matt" , "kimberlie allen" Subject: Fw: Americans Show Unity Against Terrorism - Friday, Sept. 14,20 01 Date: Thu, 13 Sep 2001 10:53:02 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4133.2400 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4133.2400 X-Converted-To-Plain-Text: from multipart/alternative by demime 0.97c X-Converted-To-Plain-Text: Alternative section used was text/plain FW: Americans Show Unity Against Terrorism - Friday, Sept. 14,20 01A democratic, peaceful message Friday Night at 7:00 p.m. step out your door, stop your car, or step out of your establishment and light a candle. We will show the world that Americans are strong and united together against terrorism. Please pass this to everyone on your e-mail list. We need to reach everyone across the United States quickly. The message: WE STAND UNITED - WE WILL NOT TOLERATE TERRORISM! Thank you. We need press to cover this - we need the world to see. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 14 Sep 2001 01:50:07 -0700 From: "Robert Holliston" Subject: NJC a question about security NJC Folks, I'm still watching the coverage and am still in shock. And I'm still horrified at the possibility that Canada may have (unwittingly) facilitated and thus contributed to this attack. But I have a question, a complicated one but not a disingenuous one. On September 11, four passenger jets were hijacked. Three of them met, disatrously, their targets, and the fourth was (I hope) thwarted by its passengers. At least 50 - and as many as 100 - people were involved in this attack. It's possibly the most complex, well-organized, and well-informed act of terrorism ever. Yet there was no leak. Everyone did his/her job to perfection. On TV, I heard not only that the WTC was equipped to endure an attack from a 707, but that this was common knowledge. My question: WHY was this common knowledge? How effective can security measures be if the boundaries are a matter of public record? We must hold our cards closer to our chests than ever. Roberto, too tired to post _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 14 Sep 2001 05:16:51 -0400 From: dsk Subject: Early Sept 11 The messages that Patrick and Kay sent both mentioned the feeling of having no safe place, of being at war. How true! From what people are saying, it's something people throughout the country felt. A new sensation for us. I've already sent the story of my walk home. For anyone who's interested in another personal account of that day, here's what the first part of that day was like for me: On Tuesday morning I was working on the 20th floor of a major international financial firm (a good target?) a few blocks from the World Trade Center. I had a project to do that involved figuring out how to fit ten boxes of information and arrows across a page as the banker wanted and still be able to read anything. It was one of those "this has to be done another way; what is he really trying to get across here?" projects. I was listening to John Cale sing Hallelujah on my portable cd player, listening to it over and over, his voice and the piano. Typical day. A few people in the room had radios and had been listening through headphones and they told us about the first plane hitting. We didn't have a view of the towers and no TV. John Cale was put away so I could hear everything. The first plane was perhaps an accident. I pictured a little two-seater that went off-course. Very sad I thought; I'm sure some lives are lost. The second one and finding out how big a plane it was changed it instantly into great danger for us all. It was obviously terrorism and if they had hit there they could hit anywhere. Already, blocks away, papers were flying around outside our windows. People called anyone they knew at the WTC. Someone called our coworkers at One Liberty Plaza, at the foot of the towers, and there was no answer so the assumption was they were all evacuated as soon as the first plane hit. Good. No one in our group knew exactly how serious the situation was, or what to do, or where to go. We were in a building four blocks south and two blocks east of the towers, close but not directly under them, a 5 to 7 minute walk. It's such a small area there everyone is close. And we didn't know what was going on. Sights we wouldn't have noticed on a normal day became scary all of a sudden. Someone looked out at the East River that we can see between buildings and said "what's that?" and we all looked out and saw what looked like a huge raft, something we'd never seen on the river before. Was it full of explosives? Was anything aimed at us? All of a sudden the view that I had always been soothed by and loved because the look of the water changed so often during the day, and on sunny days I could watch the sailboats or cruisers and imagine being on one -- perhaps on that day that beautiful river was now being used to deliver deadly force against us, us, people in creative services just trying to get our little projects done. I sent out personal emails, which I never do from there since we're told all communications are monitored because of concern about insider trading. As I was writing the last one, someone near the window looked out and said "oh, no, everyone's running". I looked out and even 20 floors up the panic was obvious. Then the building shook and the lights flickered and the computers almost shut down and I ended my email with a "were outta here", clicked on send and hoped it got through. Within seconds there was so much smoke outside we couldn't see a building a few feet away. We then heard that one of the towers had fallen (was falling? like a tree? coming toward us? we didn't know). I pictured instantly the thousands of people in those towers and knew that there wasn't much chance for their survival. Those buildings are... those buildings were... so huge. I can't describe the sinking feeling in that instant awareness of the horror that was happening right then. I then looked around where I was and remember thinking "I don't want it to end like this." The next thought was "we don't always have a choice about our end". My next thought was "but I have things I still want to do". And then I stopped thinking about all that and plans were made for us all to go to a lower floor, not outside which many of us wanted to do; no one could be forced to stay inside but we were told going out would be more dangerous than being in the building because of all the debris in the air. So practical things took over. Log off the computer. Put my half-eaten breakfast in the trash can. Put the unfinished project on the front desk. Gather with my coworkers, some of them good friends, and walk down the stairs, getting dizzy circling around. And in the conference room on a lower floor watch the TV reports, which I could only stomach for short periods of time, make some calls to friends and family to pass the word that I was ok and would continue to be ok and expected to have a long walk home, and would call again once I was there. And then we waited, were horrified again when the second tower collapsed, and heard stories about the White House being hit, and the Pentagon being hit and another plane crashing in Pennsylvania and it felt like we were all under seige, the whole country was being bombed, we were at war. There was a lot of misinformation at that point. It was hard to sit and wait when all I wanted to do, all everyone wanted to do, was be at home and feel safe again. That "safe" feeling might never return. Most of our talk was about how to get home with all the bridges and tunnels closed, and no buses or subways running. For a while some of us expected to go home with someone who lived on Staten Island because surely the ferry would get us there. We waited, sometimes crying, mostly just numb and waiting. The ventilation system was shut down because it brought outside air in and that was now filled with smoke and dust. It became very warm in there. We waited. Around 1:30 when building security said we could go outside, I left my bag that had some books and my portable cd player and the collection of favorite cds in it since I expected to be walking all the way home, a very long way, and didn't want to carry it. So I left it with a note that I'd be back to pick it up when I could. There's no guarantee it will be there when I go back for it so decided to take my favorite since I could fit one cd into my purse. It came down to a choice between the John Cale and a Richard Thompson bootleg that jonilister Catherine Turley had sent me, which has a wonderful duet with Shawn Colvin on it that I've listened to over and over. The Richard Thompson cd won out, I think because it was more personal. I figured I could always buy that John Cale cd again, and the other six or so cds I left behind if I had to. That bootleg is something very special, though, so that's what I wanted to hang onto. Funny, the things that become important during such times. And I finally got home. Yesterday, the wind was blowing north and the dust I'd been walking through downtown was covering even my neighborhood too. No safety anywhere. Seeing the flowers and candles outside the firehouse was overwhelming. Today, over two days after the horror, I still have a headache, still feel like there's an elephant pushing his foot into my chest, can't sleep very well, and have been coughing, which I hope is getting rid of some of that horrible ash I've breathed in, and sometimes still am suddenly in tears. Other times I don't feel anything. And I've done lots of talking, although at some point there's nothing more that can be said for now. Almost everyone is in mourning and waiting for news about someone. The friend that I was worried about contacted me last night. He had been outside the towers and saw the first plane hit and started going north and was well out of harm's way when the towers fell. Thank God for that. There's thunder outside now, one of those sounds I used to love, that used to mean heavy rain and washing and shiny clean streets and rebirth. Tonight those rolling booms are just making my head hurt even more. Debra Shea ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 14 Sep 2001 02:24:45 -0700 From: "Kate Bennett" Subject: Subject: Aching........ (NJC) Ashara, I am so so sorry to hear about your friend...I noticed his name today as I read the list of passengers on that plane. It jumped out at me because I know a Robert Hayes who lives here. I thought about it for a long time, wondering if it could possibly be the person I knew. I am so sorry it was someone you knew. ******************************************** Kate Bennett www.katebennett.com sponsored by Polysonics www.polysonics.com Discover the Indies at Taylor Guitars: http://www.taylorguitars.com/artists/awp/indies/bennett.html ******************************************** ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 14 Sep 2001 05:57:12 -0400 From: Kay Ashley Subject: Some thoughts (long) (njc) Thanks to all the listers who have posted/called me privately to express their relief that I'm OK and to express their condolences, especially Ric, Patrick and Roberto, whom I haven't had the time/brain space to answer individually. The last few days have been very hard. I've learned of many miracles and also many tragedies. It seems that Divine Providence or Something had a hand in many people's lives on Tuesday morning -- the number of people I know who were running late, overslept, etc., etc., is amazing to me... there was some special energy helping people along, gently nudging them out of the way of the most intense danger. As it stands now, "only" about 4700 people are unaccounted for. That in itself is miraculous. It could have been 25,000 or more. I am shell shocked. I am leaving for Maine today for a few days to spend my birthday with my family. Yes, my birthday. I was dreading getting older. Now I'm thankful to be alive. Kids playing in the street today made me jump out of my skin (the skateboards sounded like jet engines for a few seconds). When kids playing in the street make you gun shy, it's time to check out for a little while. I have some thoughts to share, so bear with me. I have 2 housemates, Jim and Laen. Last weekend Laen and I had a huge disagreement. She threatened to move out; I basically said, "fine, don't let the door hit you in the ass on the way out." Last June she moved here from Miami and she needed work and I got her a job at Aon, my old company. A job on the 104th floor of 2 WTC. Tuesday morning at 9:15 Jim and I (who were both in the heart of the financial district and were in considerable danger ourselves) talked on the phone and we discussed how on earth we were going to tell Laen's parents. We were sure that the news would not be good. As I hurried home on the Brooklyn Bridge, in an emotionless yet panicked state, I thought that it was only by the grace of God that I was not in that tower. Only 2 weeks earlier and I would have been. And at that point I had no information -- just the sight behind me of a plume of dust and ash that signified where the towers should have been. And I thought that no one on the upper floors of either tower had a chance. No way. And I thought that if by some miracle, Laen made it out and all 3 of us were fine, then the only possible response to such a miracle would be forgiveness. Any other response would seem to be spitting on God or whomever/whatever is running this show. Miraculously, Laen made it completely unharmed. She had worked out in the Marriott gym in 1 WTC and left there at 8:45. She walked through the concourse towards 2 WTC -- during which time the 1st plane hit 1 WTC, unbeknownst to anyone in the concourse. She made it up to 104 of 2 WTC -- where she was greeted by the sight of blown out windows and flames from 1 WTC licking into her department's offices. She turned back immediately and made it to the ground in the elevators. She was a few blocks away when the 2nd plane hit 2 WTC. She made it home before either Jim or myself. She also ran across the Brooklyn Bridge -- ahead of the debris cloud that kept me and Jim cooped up in our offices for hours. I was up all night Tuesday and into Wednesday, frazzled and sick with worry; eventually I heard that everyone in my small graphics department at Aon had been accounted for except my friend Liz, who was known to have been on 105 in an early morning client meeting that day. I was sure she had died. Then Wednesday afternoon I learned that she was OK. Liz's escape was truly miraculous. When she was told about the fire in 1 WTC (people didn't realize yet that it was a plane), she immediately ran to the stairwell. The woman who was conducting the meeting insisted on continuing the meeting, as it was "just" 1 WTC and "this was New York" and "they would be OK." Plus this meeting was for a multimillion dollar account with a pharmaceutical firm. That woman is now "unaccounted for" as is everyone else who was in that fucking meeting. Liz ran down to the 75th floor or so -- when an announcement was made that the building was secure and that everyone should return to their desks. People actually listened. Liz screamed at them not to listen, that they needed to leave. People told her, "oh I'm just going to get my phone. I'm just going to get my bag." Liz told me that at times she was the only person who was walking down. At other times, she was alone in the stairwell. She got down to about 65 when the plane hit. All the others had walked straight into the inferno. She ran and ran -- in high heels -- in a building that was falling apart around her. She made it out with seconds to spare: she was only a few blocks north of the tower when it collapsed. So many people that she and I knew could have been spared. It truly boggles the mind to have the tragedy compounded by such senselessness. I have been contemplating that piece of paper with the Aon logo that I saw on South Street as I ran for the Brooklyn Bridge. I have been contemplating how everything that all of us worried about -- would the project be done on time, did we win the account, was so-and-so rude and nasty, were our political positions safe, ad nauseum... it's all gone. None of it fucking matters. It's all over, it doesn't exist anymore. Who fucking cares about the Pfizer meeting now? All the people who thought that making money was more important than taking common sense precautions are now dead because of their miscalculation. I learned yesterday that a huge Aon department which filled the entire 92nd floor, I learned that they were ordered by their managers to stay put. Apparently, some people with proper gumption ignored them, left and got out. But from what I can understand now, many people stayed -- and they had to have been immediately vaporized by the plane, which took out floors 87-93 simultaneously. Many of my friends were on that floor. Impermanence. Ashes to ashes, dust to dust. All the material attachments we have, all the ego attachments (the need to be right, first and foremost) we have, all these are meaningless. Attachments are rarely about the present; they are almost always about the past or about our ego's projections into the future. And as I've written before, all I need to do is climb up onto my roof to have the ultimate lesson in the value of living in the present. It can all be whisked away in an instant. As I've described before, I keep seeing the towers, I keep traveling through the halls on "my floor," I keep visiting all the people I knew. I can feel and hear my footfalls on the carpeted floor of 103. I can feel the slight rise in the floor on one corner where I would frequently trip when I wore one particular pair of shoes. I can sit down in my friend Arlander's cube and relive the laughs we had as if they never ended. I can see the northward view through the windows. I can even see the reflection of the fluorescent lights on the window and the view beyond the reflection. I cannot seem to fathom the schism between the fact that all these things live in my memory so vividly, so tactilely, and yet none of it exists anymore. It simply doesn't exist. So it occurs to me that if it is possible for these things, these real experiences of mine to live so vividly in my memory and yet I have solid undeniable proof that these things no longer exist, then perhaps I need to consider the possibility that much of the pain I carry around in my soul is no less illusory. All the reasons I can't forgive my father, all the reasons I hold myself back in my music career, all the reasons I am afraid of relating with other people... all these things are bullshit. They're all illusions. So how can I possibly remain angry at my housemate? I can only be thankful that she is alive, that all of us are alive. How could I possibly spend any more of my time and energy focusing on the disagreements that Liz and I had when we worked together? I am so grateful that she is alive, and almost losing her put all her positive qualities into sharp, brilliant focus. I admit that I am struggling with anger at the people who told others to stay put when they should have been evacuating. But ultimately I have no choice but to conclude that they were only human, and had they understood what was happening -- as no one did at the time -- that they would have acted differently. And I can only be thankful that Liz and others like her had the strength of will and tenacity to ignore the voice of authority coming through that loudspeaker and get themselves out. I can tell you that all the squabbling, retaliation and hair splitting on this list seems silly, petty, unimportant... illusory. What counts is that the community exists -- for the moment, in the moment. I have felt my share of anger towards Marcel over the years. He is indeed an arrogant, overbearing, egotistical ass. But that's only because of some pain he's carrying. And he doesn't have the sense or the compassion or whatever not to lash out at others in sometimes underhanded ways. More than anything, he seems to need to be right. But he's also a wonderful musician who clearly lets something beautiful come out of his soul when he plays. I assess Marcel not in a superior way. I have my own problems relating to people. There are moments I wish I could take back. A small example: Sunday night at Ashara's, I was wigged out to find that someone had borrowed my guitar without my permission. I was upset, thinking that this was the only nice guitar I had, this guitar is my performing guitar. I asked Les Ross to return it to me when he finished playing. I wish I could take that moment back. Just earlier that day I had had a beautiful time with Les and Steve P. on the beach. How could I be upset at Les? What reason had he ever given me not to trust him with an instrument? None, but I was attached to the idea that the guitar was mine, dammit, completely losing sight of all the generosity that I had benefited from the entire fucking weekend. I felt ashamed; so much so that I left the room. If I owned a VG-8 like Paz, I don't think I would have been letting everyone play it like Paz does -- but then he doesn't seem to be too worried about those things. I could stand to take a page out of his book. Everyone who is upset at Marcel has a right to be -- but he also has a right to be forgiven. I know he has behaved badly. As have all of us at one point or another in our lives; as have many of us right here on this list. But perhaps if people could find it in their hearts to express love to him, they might be surprised by what they got back. How would we all feel if we got the news tomorrow that Marcel had died unexpectedly? Would we take comfort in the "fact" that "we were right," or would we feel remorseful that the last words he received from this community were angry ones? Just a thought. Love, Kay np: NYC's version of silence ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 14 Sep 2001 12:18:46 +0100 From: colin Subject: St Pauls Right now there is a Service of Rememberance going on in St Paul's Cathedral. There was a countrywide 3 mins silence at 11am. ROI have closed all there shops, schools and business for the whole day. The 3 mins silence was Europe wide. - -- bw colin DAK,BRO GC, 950i 940,860,864, 260, 890,Silver 830 and 270, Passap 6000 Duo80 colin@tantra-apso.com http://www.tantra-apso.com ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 14 Sep 2001 12:29:58 +0100 From: colin Subject: Re: Some thoughts (long) (njc) What a post. Thanks so much for sharing it Kay. Everything you wrote touched me. what else can i say? We all needed to read that. thank you colin ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 14 Sep 2001 07:30:04 -0400 From: Janet Hess Subject: Re: Some thoughts (long) (njc) Kay, Your message went straight to my heart. Thank you. Love, Janet and Deanna Ivy the Wonderkitty, currently flying around the apartment as she is sometimes wont to do - -------------- You've got to shake your fists at lightning now You've got to roar like forest fire You've got to spread your light like blazes All across the sky Joni Mitchell ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 14 Sep 2001 07:35:21 EDT From: StDoherty@aol.com Subject: Re: onlyJMDL Digest V2001 #285 In a message dated 9/14/01 3:59:10 AM Eastern Daylight Time, les@jmdl.com writes: << Dear friends, Those of you who have been around for a while know that I'm someone who has NEVER approved of political diatribes or personal attacks on the list. I don't believe that is what our community is for. However, I kept silent during the latest spate, until now. It is difficult to conceive that, while we try to deal with the horror that has been unleashed upon us, some of you have the time and energy to continue these rantings. Scroll? Delete? I don't think so. I don't want this crap coming into my mailbox anymore. As of now, I'm unsubscribing. Perhaps I'll be back in a while. To all my dear friends on the list, I love you all, and keep you >> I couldn't agree more ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 14 Sep 2001 23:39:51 +1200 From: "hell" Subject: Re: Some thoughts (long) (njc) Colin wrote (in response to Kay): > What a post. Thanks so much for sharing it Kay. Everything you wrote touched me. > what else can i say? We all needed to read that. > thank you Amen to that. Thank you Kay - the most moving thing I've read in a long time. Thinking of you, and everyone else touched by this tragedy. Hell ____________________________ "To have great poets, there must be great audiences too." - Walt Whitman hell@ihug.co.nz Hell's Personal Photo Page: http://homepages.ihug.co.nz/~hell/main/personal.htm Visit the NBLs (Natural Born Losers) at: http://www.nbls.co.nz ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 14 Sep 2001 08:40:42 EDT From: Kammass@aol.com Subject: Re: Some thoughts (long) (njc) kay, thank you so much for your wonderful post(s). your thoughts and words have really made me think. thank you. i hope i will continue and integrate these very positive, important ideas into my everyday life, where it, too, is needed. kammy in alabammy ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 14 Sep 2001 08:44:40 EDT From: SCJoniGuy@aol.com Subject: Re: Some thoughts (long) (njc) Kay, your post touched me very deeply. With your permission I'd like to share portions of it with folks here at work to open dialogue about corporate safety and priorities. On another note, for those like Kakki who are moved by expressions from our global neighbors, I received a very brief but similarly moving note from someone who bought a record from me off of E-Bay. He says: "Hello Bob, How are you. First of all I'd like to give you my deepest symphathy for what happened in your country. I hope it didn't involve you directly. Take care John" Pretty cool, I thought. Bob NP: Wilco, "(was I) in your dreams" ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 14 Sep 2001 13:57:48 +0100 From: Subject: Re: marcel - njc - ----- Original Message ----- From: > 1. marcel is a cyber rapist. Dear Pat, Please do not send me any more of this ugly nonsense. thanks, Philip ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 14 Sep 2001 06:55:29 -0700 From: "Bree Mcdonough" Subject: Kay Ashley's post (NJC) To Kate and Fellow JMDLers: I have made a hard-copy of your very REAL and thought provoking post. And will keep it for all time and read when I get caught up in things that don't really matter----petty shit. I will make additional copies and give to family and friends that I love too. I found your writing that profound! Thank you so much!! I had a fall-out with a very special person that I simply adored and will swallow my pride and call her. Because we only have today..this moment, as I said in a post recently----there are NO guarantees about tomorrow. Thank you again, Bree _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 14 Sep 2001 07:14:44 -0700 (PDT) From: Don Rowe Subject: Re: NJC a question about security NJC - --- Robert Holliston wrote: > On TV, I heard not only that the WTC was equipped to > endure an attack from a > 707, but that this was common knowledge. > > My question: WHY was this common knowledge? My understanding is that the design & engineering of the Towers took into consideration the possibility of an aviation accident ... of the type where, I believe, a B-25 accidentally struck the Empire State Building in the late 1940s. It was for this reason that it was common knowledge ... until Tuesday, no one even considered the possibility of such an attack as a security threat. Don Rowe ===== Visit me anytime at http://www.mp3.com/donrowe __________________________________________________ Terrorist Attacks on U.S. - How can you help? Donate cash, emergency relief information http://dailynews.yahoo.com/fc/US/Emergency_Information/ ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 14 Sep 2001 10:29:27 EDT From: RobSher50@aol.com Subject: Let music soothe your soul Hi everyone, Right now, I am listening to the wonderful sounds of Take 6 and I feel my soul being soothed. I had to turn the TV off (again) because I was overwhelmed. I'm torn between wanting to share in the suffering of those who do not know the fate of their loved ones and needing time to heal my own soul. My family's trials are just beginning as I have numerous members on high security alert due to them being in the military. I am so proud of them and yet, so afraid for them. I was thinking of how Joni's music has always been a catharsis for all of the emotions I may be feeling. "Amelia" usually brings me to tears. What I would like everyone to do is tell me what Joni song tugs most at your emotional heartstrings. I need you to go listen to that song and let it soothe you in these terrible times. I was also moved to tears when I heard and saw the British Guard play the national anthem. It meant so much to me to have another country pay such homage. Paul C sent such a heartfelt post asking what he could do to help get people in touch with relatives in the UK. I thank you publicly as I have already done privately. So find your most touching Joni song and tell us why it means so much to you. I think it will help us all. Sherelle NP-Take 6 "Milky White Way" ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 14 Sep 2001 07:36:28 -0700 (PDT) From: "Lori R. Fye" Subject: Re: Nostradamus on Joni? (njc) BOB!!! LOL ... > In the year beginning with 2-0, > and ending in its reverse, > the queen of heart and mind beauty > will grow weary of her box of paints > and sing her sorrow once again. > A new silvery disc within a jewel case will appear, > and as the choir proclaims this her finest gift, > the uncoverted will be changed for all time. > > - Nostradamus 1654 Lori, glad to know that something funny and good came of her silly "1654" post ~ __________________________________________________ Terrorist Attacks on U.S. - How can you help? Donate cash, emergency relief information http://dailynews.yahoo.com/fc/US/Emergency_Information/ ------------------------------ End of JMDL Digest V2001 #406 ***************************** ------- Post messages to the list by clicking here: mailto:joni@smoe.org Unsubscribe by clicking here: mailto:joni-digest-request@smoe.org?body=unsubscribe ------- Siquomb, isn't she?