From: les@jmdl.com (JMDL Digest) To: joni-digest@smoe.org Subject: JMDL Digest V2001 #391 Reply-To: joni@smoe.org Sender: les@jmdl.com Errors-To: les@jmdl.com Precedence: bulk Unsubscribe: mailto:joni-digest-request@smoe.org?body=unsubscribe Archives: http://www.smoe.org/lists/joni Websites: http://www.jmdl.com http://www.jonimitchell.com JMDL Digest Sunday, September 9 2001 Volume 2001 : Number 391 The Official Joni Mitchell Homepage, created by Wally Breese, can be found at http://www.jonimitchell.com. It contains the latest news, a detailed bio, Original Interviews, essays, lyrics and much much more. The JMDL website can be found at http://www.jmdl.com and contains interviews, articles, the member gallery, archives, and much more. ========== TOPICS and authors in this Digest: -------- A musical tour of the UK (NJC) ["Paul Castle" ] Painting with worms [Nuriel Tobias ] Moulin Rouge NJC [colin ] Re: gratitude NJC [colin ] Re: Painting with worms [colin ] re painting with worms njc [Kammass@aol.com] Re: Painting with worms [Catherine McKay ] jonifest ["marianne marianne" ] Re: Painting with worms ["Sharon L. Buffington" ] Re: gratitude NJC ["Sharon L. Buffington" ] Topsfield reprise- Marcels fatal accidental omission [MDESTE1@aol.com] Re: Topsfield reprise- Marcels fatal accidental omission NJC [SCJoniGuy@a] NJC snakebite evangelists ["Mike Pritchard" ] Gratitude (njc) ["shane mattison" ] Re: Moulin Rouge NJC [Jerry Notaro ] Re: Moulin Rouge NJC [colin ] Re: Gratitude (njc) [colin ] Re: NJC snakebite evangelists [colin ] misc njc ["Kate Bennett" ] nuriel, njc ["Dolphie Bush" ] Re: misc njc ["Kakki" ] gratitude (njc) ["Suze Cameron" ] Earthquake coming? [BigWaltinSF@aol.com] Re: Earthquake coming? [colin ] Re: gratitude (njc) [Michael Paz ] Re: Earthquake coming? [Michael Paz ] Sex Kills 2001 [Vince Lavieri ] Joni's personal life [Vince Lavieri ] ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Sun, 9 Sep 2001 10:23:43 +0100 From: "Paul Castle" Subject: A musical tour of the UK (NJC) Whilst I have no connection with the company, I see California-based 'Festival Tours International' (run by Richard Thompson's wife, Nancy Covey) are offering what looks like an interesting two week UK tour next year (4th - 18th August '02) to celebrate, Fairport Convention's 35th Anniversary! see http://www.gumbopages.com/festivaltours/ Here are some of the proposed Itinary Highights - (Nancy Festtours@aol.com tells me prices should be available in October). Hoped some jmdlers might be interested (and perhaps we can add on a London jmdl get together - before, after, or along the way). PaulC from their website: >>>> Join us on our unique trip to England and Scotland. Visit the Britain the tourists don't see, with music as our focus and musicians as our personal guides. We will take long walks through the countryside and have fireside visits as friends open their homes and villages to us for special concerts arranged just for our trip. We'll meet and mix with the locals and discover Britain from a new and definitely non-tourist approach, while travelling to some of the most beautiful places in the British Isles. Unlike most tours, our schedule is always loosely structured and open to the spontaneity of friends, musicians and events which are often times not planned far in advance ... Sunday - Tuesday, August 4 -6 - London We begin our trip with a private moonlit dinner cruise down the Thames as we watch the sights and lights of Big Ben and the spectacular Houses of Parliament. Be serenaded by special guest musicians such as Loudon Wainwright III, Iain Matthews, Jerry Donohue or the Albion Band. There will be plenty of free time here in London to explore this fascinating city. Visit the Tower of London, wander the famous museums, enjoy a sumptuous afternoon tea or stroll through one of London's many beautiful green parks. In the evenings enjoy the spirits in a cozy pub, catch a gig in one of the clubs or see some of the best theatre productions in the world. Wednesday, August 7 - Banbury Travel to the beautiful Cotswold countryside. We'll stop at a picturesque village for lunch in a thatched village pub. Then spend the afternoon with FAIRPORT band members swapping stories and sipping ale over a pub lunch. Wednesday night we'll have tickets for Fairport's pre-festival warmup concert in the small town of Banbury. These warmup gigs are always sold out and are often times some of the best concerts you'll ever hear from the band! Thursday - Saturday, August 8-10 - Cropredy The weekend will be spent at the Fairport Convention Reunion Festival, which takes place on a grassy field overlooking the rolling hills outside the village of Cropredy. This will be the 35th anniversary of Fairport Convention, so it will be very special, and a real "reunion" of former Fairport members! Special guests will include Richard Thompson among others yet to be announced. Sun & Mon, August 11-12 - Yorkshire Dales... Drive north through the green English countryside to the heart of Wensleydale (yes, home of the cheese) in the high rolling hills of the Yorkshire Dales. Today enjoy our R&R at Simonstsone Hall, an 18th Century former shooting lodge with magnificent views over the fells, near Hawes, one of the most picturesque towns in Yorkshire. Yorkshire is the home to great traditional musicians including Martin Carthy and the Watersons. Tonight will be a private musical treat just for us. Tue & Wed, August 13 - 14 - Scotland! Details to be determined! Thurs- Sun, August 15 - 18 - Edinburgh The capital of Scotland since the 12th Century, the magnificent city of Edinburgh is built around its world-famous castle. This time of year the city truly comes alive with the Edinburgh International Festival which is the biggest arts festival in the world. Throughout the city there are literally thousands of presentations of music, theatre, dance and art. You'll have plenty of free time to "do" the festival at your own pace. Saturday afternoon we'll all gather one last tim to enjoy an afternoon high tea! The tour "officially" ends Sunday, but you can add extra days at the end (or beginning) of your trip. ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Festival Tours International Nancy Covey * Joey Thompson * Carole Raye 15237 Sunset Blvd., Suite 17, Pacific Palisades, CA 90272 Fax/Tel (818) 346-5146 (310) 454-4080 E-mail: Festtours@aol.com WWW: http://www.gumbopages.com/festivaltours/ BCM Festival Tours, London WC1N 3XX Fax: 0207 435-7779 ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 9 Sep 2001 03:55:08 -0700 (PDT) From: Nuriel Tobias Subject: Painting with worms original threads taken from The jmdl (The joni mitchell drawing lessons) on july 2003. thread 1 - -------- subject: "joni's "abstract landscape #2" - --------------------------------------- bob: a very nice painting. rose: very nice. marcel: and it's red too. sharon: oh very red. bob: i liked the pink one better. rose: and the frame is much too thick. bob: this is too red. marcel: i'm not too sure the other one was pink. rose: but we all agree it's a very nice painting. sharon: oh very nice. bob: it was pink. if there was white on this one it would have been pink too. sharon: i must agree with bob. white and red make pink. rose: can you tell us more about red, bob? shane: i've just found a great link. go to - www.redcolour.com probably the best site about red on the net. sharon: thanks, shane. marcel: i think the other one was green. bob: no green on this one. rose: is it a cat? bob: no. it's a hill. thread 2 - -------- subject: "joni and cubism" - -------------------------- cathrerine: joni and cubism, anyone? jim: that's a very good question, catherine. therad 3 - -------- subject: "joni's abstract landscape #3" - --------------------------------------- bob: this one is much too red. rose: a solid frame though. marcel: not much white here. bob: too much red and far too many orange spots. marcel: i think it's purple. sharon: only if you mix it with red. rose: the orange spots? sharon: no. blue. marcel: the cat looks nice. bob: it's a tree. rose: a brown tree. bob: only when mixed with black. sharon: blue? bob: no. white. thread 4 - -------- subject: "jonifest 2003 - days of colours" - ------------------------------------------ kakki: the best jonifest ever. we all gathered in ashara's living room where we've been given chalks and crayons and a very nice pile of papers. our project was to paint a vase. wally gave us a breathtaking show where he did his own version of "yellow cats on abstract landscape" using only his left hand and we all had a good cry. dinner was superb. we all got drunk and had a long and nasty conversation about aquarelle. most of us couldn't sleep that night and we spent the late hours sharing memories from the "vangoghstock". then on sunrise we stripped les and set down for our traditional naked model sketching. it was our first chance to realy sense eachother's true colours and to find out we're all offwhite. a very special moment was when mr. yungenbraucher, joni's old art teacher from high school, gave us a phone call. guntehr was very pleased to hear that his favorit student is doing what he was alwyas hoping she would do - yellow cats and abstract landscapes. the fest ended with a salute to baize and ashara's promise of real oil and canvas next year. thread 5 - -------- subject: please help me to unsubscribe from the list! - ---------------------------------------------------- T-d'3x: due to the endless attacks i had to face on the subject of "black - colour or non-colour?" when it's well known that black is the shadow of all short waves of semi-light rays i demand to unsubscribe from the jmdl right now! thread 6 - -------- subject: joni's self cover of her "abstract kilauren on - --------------------------------------------------- red landscape" - -------------- bob: what a treat. one of my all times favorit paintings covered by the artsit herself. rose: how do you think she covered it, bob? bob: i think it's glue mixed with flour. thread 7 - -------- subject: "real abstract joni news" - ---------------------------------- les: the updated word on the billboard is that joni has decided to give up painting. the legendery artist who's changed the art world with masterpieces like "landscape #2" "landscape #3" and the unforgetable "landscape #14" has decided to spend all of her time and talent on her old love, knitting. joni syas that "there are so many nobodies around who think that just because they can draw a cat they should be treated like artists that it makes me sick. knitting is the only true form of art left in this planet. knitting sweaters for my cats and grandson is a pleasure not to mention that it's quite cold out here in october". the debut sweater will be released on the homeshoping network and is tytled "come in from the cold and don't forget to take you sweater the next time". thread 7 (subject: joni release "socks") is much too x-rated to be presented here at the moment. _____________________________________________________________ Free email, web pages, news, entertainment, weather and MORE! Check out -------------------------------> http://wowmail.com ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 09 Sep 2001 12:05:47 +0100 From: colin Subject: Moulin Rouge NJC Has anyone seen this film? - -- bw colin DAK,BRO GC, 950i 940,860,864, 260, 890,Silver 830 and 270, Passap 6000 Duo80 colin@tantra-apso.com http://www.tantra-apso.com ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 09 Sep 2001 12:35:01 +0100 From: colin Subject: Re: gratitude NJC Gratitude goes an awful long way in helping one appreciate one's own life. It is easy to get stuck on 'what might have been' or 'I wish that hadn't happened' or 'i wish I'd had more or 'i wish I had been loved' or 'i wish i was slimmer', 'wish i had musleces' 'good looks' or 'wish I was popular' or 'had more money' or and the list goes on and on. Not very helpful really! But to remind yourself of what you have got is good and positive and it helps to lift the spirit. No matter how awful things are, there is always soemthing to be grateful for. I remember many years ago when life was much much more diffiuclt, and I had nowhere to live and no one to care for me, lived on the streets but ALWAYS with a roof over my head. I was always amazed at how I manged to get a bed for the night, or a floor, but indoors!. The street people, those I'd always been taught were scum and wicked, the prostitutes, male and female, the addicts, the drunks, the abused-they took care of me. I was laways aware of how lucky I was. But more than that, I was taken care of. I was part of a group of people who were rent boys and girls. We hung out at a particulalr club. I was protected. If any man dared to approach me he was seen off. I was told in no uncertain terms that I did not want to join thier game, that it wasn't for me. That if I did, it would be the end of me. To this day it amazes me that these people were so protective of me, that they knew it would destroy me if i sold myself. yet this is how they themselves survived. They kept me on the straight and narrow till my life changed. The years of being victim thru ignorance to the psych profession, their pills and potions-rescued by people who undertsood and knew better. Most of all being loved by John and at a time when I felt I was not loveable. After all, if your own parents don't love you, you must not be loveable. It would be easy now to feel self pity for having no family. Yet instead I see the great freedom that gives me. I used to feel ashamed that i did not work, had never been capable, that I gave nothing. Now I feel so damned lucky that i don't do anything I don't want, that I please myself what i do for the day. That I am free from ahbving to achieve, having to prove myself worhty. that i can be a human being and not a human doing. Lucky that indeed i do 'work' but at what i love doing so it isn't work. I have John, our home, the dogs, my designing and a few really good, trustworthy friends. I used to want to be part of the group, to be accpeted and liked. In order to do that, i was quite willing to be whatever you wanted me to be. I am now so grateful I am myself and grateful I found the strength for that. As well as John, I am grateful, more than I can say, for Roger, the therapist who listened to me and loved me and enabled me to grow and live with my past. This list is another thing I am so grateful for(and the pc that brought it into my life). thru the list I discovered that i was not bad, stupid, ignorant and useless. That I am as imperfect as everyone else. Thru the list i discovered that there were good and kind people out there in the world who gave to me without wanting anything. Who reminded that whilst my past was awful, there had been knindesses that saw me thru. Enabled me to remember the good that had been in my life. Also the gift of being able to say what i really feel, to really communicate. I have made close connections with some people, we share of ourselves and probably in a way that face to face we never would have. So yes I am more than grateful for this. Those people know who they are and know that we have shared deeply and that I have grown so much as a result. Even those with whom there has been tension and unkindness have helped me grow. I have learned how not to be. i have seen all the faults we humans are prone to there in my face, helped me see my own. All in all gratitude is a very positive thing. bw colin ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 09 Sep 2001 12:38:21 +0100 From: colin Subject: Re: Painting with worms Thank you. This was very amusing! I think a talent for finding humour in life is a blessing. bw colin ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 9 Sep 2001 07:35:24 EDT From: Kammass@aol.com Subject: re painting with worms njc nuriel, loved your post! was so funny and i have just been here a short time. kammy ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 9 Sep 2001 08:18:27 -0400 (EDT) From: Catherine McKay Subject: Re: Painting with worms - --- Nuriel Tobias wrote: > original threads taken from The jmdl (The joni > mitchell drawing lessons) on july 2003. > > Nuriel, this is priceless - I loved it! Get your free @yahoo.ca address at http://mail.yahoo.ca ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 09 Sep 2001 09:05:39 -0400 From: "marianne marianne" Subject: jonifest I wanted to say that I am glad that you jonifesters had a great time at the fest. It is good for the universe to have such a gathering (as I said to Sharon)... . . It spreads good will. It has to. . . seeings it all originated from Joni. I am thinking about going next year. Will you host it again Ashara? I don't mean to be presumptuous. I am just wondering how far I will have to travel from Rochester NY. Marianne _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 09 Sep 2001 08:32:13 -0500 From: "Sharon L. Buffington" Subject: Re: Painting with worms Dear Nuriel, whomever and where ever you are.........I thought you might like to see some really big worms...to use in your works. Peace.........Sharon www.thegreencommunity.org/giant_worms.html ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 09 Sep 2001 09:42:48 -0400 From: "marianne marianne" Subject: fire and rain I'm looking for answers. . . . the discussion about James Taylor's fire and rain led me to thinking about asking the list for advice.. . Anyone who responds can do so privately. . . as this is not directly related to Joni. I will try to be brief. Jerry interpreted "fire and rain" to mean extreme highs and lows. My question: My mom has had manic depression all of my life (they call it bipolar disorder now). The medications are not working for her and are causing her kidney damage. I rarely trust the medications. She is presently hopitalized, this time for 2 months. . . in order to have the possibility of her resuming a near normal life and to go home the psychiatrist (and I don't generally trust psychiatrists, usually I don't) is suggesting ECT (electro-convulsive shock treatment).. . I abhor the idea. She had them when I was a child and said that they helped her. . . I wont get into all of this now, but if anyone has any information or opinions, pro or con, please email me. I don't know what else to do. Thanks I trust your opinions. Marianne _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 09 Sep 2001 10:15:48 -0500 From: "Sharon L. Buffington" Subject: Re: gratitude NJC Dear Colin: I am always so glad when you and other JMDL folk share something of themselves. I believe this sort of sharing is in the very best tradition of Joni...which as Ken in SF once told me is how Joni moved into our souls. I am glad you are alive Colin...the world is richer for your presence. Love and Peace.......Sharon colin wrote: > > Gratitude goes an awful long way in helping one appreciate one's own life. > It is easy to get stuck on 'what might have been' or 'I wish that hadn't > happened' or 'i wish I'd had more or 'i wish I had been loved' or 'i wish i was > slimmer', 'wish i had musleces' 'good looks' or 'wish I was popular' or 'had > more money' or and the list goes on and on. > Not very helpful really! > But to remind yourself of what you have got is good and positive and it helps to > lift the spirit. No matter how awful things are, there is always soemthing to be > grateful for. > > I remember many years ago when life was much much more diffiuclt, and I had > nowhere to live and no one to care for me, lived on the streets but ALWAYS with > a roof over my head. I was always amazed at how I manged to get a bed for the > night, or a floor, but indoors!. > The street people, those I'd always been taught were scum and wicked, the > prostitutes, male and female, the addicts, the drunks, the abused-they took care > of me. I was laways aware of how lucky I was. But more than that, I was taken > care of. I was part of a group of people who were rent boys and girls. We hung > out at a particulalr club. I was protected. If any man dared to approach me he > was seen off. I was told in no uncertain terms that I did not want to join thier > game, that it wasn't for me. That if I did, it would be the end of me. > To this day it amazes me that these people were so protective of me, that they > knew it would destroy me if i sold myself. yet this is how they themselves > survived. They kept me on the straight and narrow till my life changed. > The years of being victim thru ignorance to the psych profession, their pills > and potions-rescued by people who undertsood and knew better. > Most of all being loved by John and at a time when I felt I was not loveable. > After all, if your own parents don't love you, you must not be loveable. It > would be easy now to feel self pity for having no family. Yet instead I see the > great freedom that gives me. > I used to feel ashamed that i did not work, had never been capable, that I gave > nothing. Now I feel so damned lucky that i don't do anything I don't want, that > I please myself what i do for the day. > That I am free from ahbving to achieve, having to prove myself worhty. that i > can be a human being and not a human doing. Lucky that indeed i do 'work' but at > what i love doing so it isn't work. I have John, our home, the dogs, my > designing and a few really good, trustworthy friends. I used to want to be part > of the group, to be accpeted and liked. In order to do that, i was quite willing > to be whatever you wanted me to be. I am now so grateful I am myself and > grateful I found the strength for that. > As well as John, I am grateful, more than I can say, for Roger, the therapist > who listened to me and loved me and enabled me to grow and live with my past. > This list is another thing I am so grateful for(and the pc that brought it into > my life). thru the list I discovered that i was not bad, stupid, ignorant and > useless. That I am as imperfect as everyone else. Thru the list i discovered > that there were good and kind people out there in the world who gave to me > without wanting anything. Who reminded that whilst my past was awful, there had > been knindesses that saw me thru. Enabled me to remember the good that had been > in my life. Also the gift of being able to say what i really feel, to really > communicate. I have made close connections with some people, we share of > ourselves and probably in a way that face to face we never would have. So yes I > am more than grateful for this. Those people know who they are and know that we > have shared deeply and that I have grown so much as a result. > Even those with whom there has been tension and unkindness have helped me grow. > I have learned how not to be. i have seen all the faults we humans are prone to > there in my face, helped me see my own. > > All in all gratitude is a very positive thing. > > bw > colin ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 9 Sep 2001 11:32:41 EDT From: MDESTE1@aol.com Subject: Topsfield reprise- Marcels fatal accidental omission First of all many many thanks to all those who wrote me to give me props on my epiphany of a report on the Topsfield fest at Asharas. As I said I found after New Orleans that it really does the psyche well to write it all out and share it. Having said that the creation of it was an exercise not unlike running a marathon and it was quite exhaustive. As such it is inevitable that you either omit someone who was meaningful or something that was meaningful. With all the happenings and occurrences it is probably inevitable. In any event I want to include even at this late date something I should never have omitted and that was the appearance of Helen Adcock at this fest. This woman should serve as something beyond an inspiration to all of you out there who allowed this event to happen without you being there. First of all she traveled something like half way around the entire planet to attend. Second of all, reports emanating from the World Bank archives (which were heavily redacted) revealed that the government was concerned that they were too late in shutting down the lending window to prevent her from obtaining funds to make the trip to an amorphous musical event, a questionable use of the banks lending powers. Imagine that. She didnt take excess mad money and "blow it" on a frivolous vacation she incurred a significant liability to be with us. What a humbling realization. There were additional national security concerns in the military That she would successfully smuggle indigenous music out of the country thereby forwarning the world as per the next wave of Kiwi vibes that might muscle out hip hop and cause an influx of demand that could upset the currency and tourist markets there. Thirdly someone locally had loosed the rumor that she was carrying the design secrets for the New Zealand boat in the next Americas Cup defense in the form of a tape of backwards recorded Stephen Stills solos. And she still made it out of the country. Of course it did help that her trip included only LA in California and we all no there aint no boats in LA that can match the Kiwis. On the other hand it was the New England leg of her itinerary that had Team Kiwi rattled and Im sure those black helicopters that followed her every move in Topsfield were in constant touch with the powers back home. Was Atty Mae's the drop zone? We'll never know and can only guess they said. Now I have communicated with Hell from time to time on the list and I had really looked forward to meeting her and I was only disappointed during the fest by her failing to lead us all in reggae versions of Kiwi football songs during the ganja Line sessions. Steve Polifka take note. Was Bob Muller able to secret from her the lyrics to these songs or does he now have a Huuuuuge hole in his game. My only regret was as in many other cases failing to secure enough time to chat with her about the many interesting things she has posted all to our benefit on the list. I take it she has returned to LA where undoubtedly Kakki is taking her around to all the sites known only to the insider of insiders prior to her leaving our shores. Fare well Hell. Many happy returns. Lastly unfortunately, I did make one other huge boo boo and that was mispelling Topsfield in all the titles. My excuse is that for my entire life since 1958 I have had this baseball card collection (Topps) and it was total conditioned response. You may blame B.F.Skinner for my affliction. Ashara please accept my apologies. Marcel Deste ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 9 Sep 2001 12:21:15 EDT From: SCJoniGuy@aol.com Subject: Re: Topsfield reprise- Marcels fatal accidental omission NJC << In any event I want to include even at this late date something I should never have omitted and that was the appearance of Helen Adcock at this fest. >> And in an instance of some weird Karma, I saw where Carole King is releasing her first new record in umpteen years! Bob NP: Jimmy Eat World, "Hear You Me" ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 9 Sep 2001 19:24:26 +0200 From: "Mike Pritchard" Subject: NJC snakebite evangelists At the risk of throwing fuel onto what I hope are the dying embers of an increasingly bitter debate I'd like to just comment on one of Laurent's statements. He writes: >The conflict between Jews and Palestinians is political and territorial, not >racial nor religious. Mike writes: I agree with this, and would only add that it should, IMHO, read 'The conflict between (some) jews and (some) palestinians is political and territorial, not racial nor religious.' But why stop with this amended version? Why not replace 'some jews' and 'some palestinians' with catholics and protestants, or heterosexual and homosexual, or men and women, black and white, rich and poor, or powerful and weak, or military junta and trade unionist etc. All 'conflicts' are political and territorial. The other factors usually mentioned here ('race' 'sexuality', 'land', 'language', 'culture' etc) are only the smokescreens that mask the fact that all these conflicts can be reduced to something like "We don't people like you around here because you're black or queer or jewish or irish or muslim or atheist etc and WE ARE NOT. Furthermore, we are stronger (or greater in number, or have more powerful weapons and/or friends) than you and we are going to do something about it." It's ALL about power and territory: always was, always will be. One other point about anti-zionists and/or pro-muslims (which are not two face(t)s of the same person) is that the people who are often accused of being unable to see anything bad about the palestinians (and muslims in general) are/were the first to criticise the taliban in Afghanistan. I don't see this as an inconsistent position. I see it as evidence that people who criticise the israeli government's aggression and also criticise the aggression of the taliban forces are neither anti-zionist nor anti-muslim. They are simply people who are anti-violence and who are unafraid to say so when they see an intolerable abuse of political and/or military power, regardless of which side is wielding the weapons. Mike in Barcelona. NPIMH: Robert Wyatt - Strange Fruit. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 9 Sep 2001 11:40:02 -0600 From: "shane mattison" Subject: Gratitude (njc) wow...thankyou catherine, randy, kakki, colin, kate & sharon...your testimonies to the power of gratitude...it already flavours the list with a pristine breeze... particularly kate and colin's report on what gratitude brings to their lives...i was truly moved by it... fascinating, colin, about how street friends were solicitous to your welfare; it made me think of some elder statesmen among A.A... Ben, in Rosetown Saskatchewan, is such a person...every moment...gritty, gritty humour and experience, after years and years of boozing, then years and years of volunteer stories...magic moments in parks or alleys when he made contact with those still boozin' it... "how did you quit, ben?" i asked. He was at a cocktail party..."a barmaid came by in fishnet stockings and a bowtie"...offering ben a drink...he had a mere club soda in his hand...then he reached out to take a 'real drink' from her tray...he reports, "My hand just froze in mid-air...i tried to reach further but it wouldn't move, .....so,... i told her, oh, ...i already have my drink (the club soda)...i never drank again..." every moment, humour and A.A. reasoning...we had coffee in a cafe where ben always kids the waitresses, to their delight...he looked like clint eastwood in unforgiven...the waitress says to ben "don't argue with me" ...ben, quick as a whistle, "well, i can't argue without you, so i may as well argue with you!" as we're leaving... you said it kate....grace... shane ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 09 Sep 2001 13:49:11 -0400 From: Jerry Notaro Subject: Re: Moulin Rouge NJC colin wrote: > Has anyone seen this film? Visually fascinating, at first. Then a bore. John Leguizamo (sp?) stole the show, as always. Jerry ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 09 Sep 2001 19:06:29 +0100 From: colin Subject: Re: Moulin Rouge NJC Jerry Notaro wrote: > colin wrote: > > > Has anyone seen this film? > > Visually fascinating, at first. Then a bore. I have seen quite afew ads for it recently on tv and the bits they show look and osund exciting tho one often wonders if these are indeed the best bits and there is nothing else! > John Leguizamo (sp?) stole > the show, as always. > > Jerry - -- bw colin DAK,BRO GC, 950i 940,860,864, 260, 890,Silver 830 and 270, Passap 6000 Duo80 colin@tantra-apso.com http://www.tantra-apso.com ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 09 Sep 2001 19:14:25 +0100 From: colin Subject: Re: Gratitude (njc) > fascinating, colin, about how street friends were solicitous to your welfare; > it made me think of some elder statesmen among A.A... > i see what you mean. I have always thought it strange, and the more powerful for it, that these people were the walking wounded, selling themselves, drinking, drugging etc but the still had it in them to protect me and keep me from the path they had taken. of course at the time, i was too young, immature, naive and confused to understand it. It is only when the dust sttled for me, that i began to see how much love I was given back then. This is an amsuing example of how naive I was: I had been hanging around going to various clubs etc and it was late. Gloria had arranged to meet me on a corner in Piccadilly to take me to where we would crash for the night. It was about 3am and here I was standing on this corner in piccadilly when a polic car pulled up. Two policemen got out and came over to me to question me as to what i was doing. 'I am waiting to be picked up', I innocently replied. Even they knew I was naive and suggested next time, I choose a different place to wait. I often think my accent, posh, got me thru a lot in those days! I was once in ahouse where drug dealing was happening(there were also weapons). It was raided. Everone, bar me was arrested. i was told to leave and be carful where I got lead in future. Grace indeed. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 09 Sep 2001 19:16:11 +0100 From: colin Subject: Re: NJC snakebite evangelists > They are simply > people who are anti-violence and who are unafraid to say so when they see an > intolerable abuse of political and/or military power, regardless of which side > is wielding the weapons. Thanks for this reasoned reply Mike. This is how I feel in a nutshell and far better put. > > > Mike in Barcelona. > > NPIMH: Robert Wyatt - Strange Fruit. - -- bw colin DAK,BRO GC, 950i 940,860,864, 260, 890,Silver 830 and 270, Passap 6000 Duo80 colin@tantra-apso.com http://www.tantra-apso.com ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 9 Sep 2001 10:49:16 -0700 From: "Kate Bennett" Subject: misc njc Kakki sorry to hear about your Dad...hope he will be fine Willy...sorry to hear about your friend... Victor...can't wait to hear the Parsonage Lane song... (great title...kinda like Penny Lane!!!) ...I am off to play a set at our local Organic Festival today...with a mandolin & bass player & of course Jeff (shades of Asharafest!)... ******************************************** Kate Bennett www.katebennett.com sponsored by Polysonics www.polysonics.com Discover the Indies at Taylor Guitars: http://www.taylorguitars.com/artists/awp/indies/bennett.html ******************************************** ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 9 Sep 2001 14:43:37 -0500 From: "Dolphie Bush" Subject: nuriel, njc Interesting post, Nuriel. Mack ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 9 Sep 2001 12:49:34 -0700 From: "Kakki" Subject: Re: misc njc Kate - > Kakki sorry to hear about your Dad...hope he will be fine Thanks - it was a real rollercoaster for a couple days, aggravated by nurses who were lacking in experience with the elderly, but he is much better now and back at home. Even the doctor and a priest basically told my mother "get him out of here quick!" ;-) > Willy...sorry to hear about your friend... Me too, Willy. > Victor...can't wait to hear the Parsonage Lane song... (great title...kinda like Penny Lane!!!) I know it will be beautiful. The "California" song he wrote after last year is so awesome. > ...I am off to play a set at our local Organic Festival today...with a > mandolin & bass player & of course Jeff (shades of Asharafest!)... Have a great time! That sounds so fun - wish Hell and I weren't so sluggish from jet lag - we'd come up to see you! Kakki ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 09 Sep 2001 16:23:03 -0400 From: "Suze Cameron" Subject: gratitude (njc) Those longtime listers will remember that before my assignment as counselor I used to teach elementary computer. One marking period I decided that my 4t grade students would write a gratitude journal, making an entry every class period on what they were thankful for. The irony in this is that the most heartfelt entries were from this young vietnamese boy whose family recently imagrated to the US. He was thankful for our country, for democracy, for being able to work at his family's restaurant and help out. Most other children were happy for their new nintendos or basketball shoes, etc. At the end of the marking period I had "Josh" read his journal to the class. Wish I had a camera to see the looks on the faces of some of the kids. I think they actually "got" it. These days I am thankful for meeting new JMDL friends and having the opportunity to listen to them play. If they weren't musical then just being able to share stories or experiences with them was enough. We have this enriching community here, and no one should ever take it for granted. My two cents on this non-sunny Sunday. N.P. Lions being thrashed by the Packers Long suffering Lions fan, Sue Get 250 color business cards for FREE! http://businesscards.lycos.com/vp/fastpath/ ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 9 Sep 2001 16:25:32 EDT From: BigWaltinSF@aol.com Subject: Earthquake coming? Hi everybody, I'm new to the list, so for all I know, the recent tenseness in some of the political discussions may come and go in cycles -- nicely balanced, thank you, by people recommending sites like wordscanheal and gratefulness -- but I joined the list to hear news of joni, and also thoroughly enjoy accounts and memories of the recent Jonifest; hope to make it next year, or whenever the next one comes. All this tension -- and the recent spate of mad gunmen here in California have made me afraid there may be an earthquake on the way. (Half kidding.) Speaking of Joni content: Okay, this is old discussion to most of you -- but did anyone else wince even slightly at Joni's choice of "Sex Kills"? I know I'm nitpicking, and she was mostly attacking commercialism and bad vibes and behaviors, but I assume she was referring to AIDS (what else?), and, well, we all know it isn't the sex which kills. Of course, I'm at a loss to come up with a way she could have fit any other wording into the song without ruining the flow. Still... Sorry if this was discussed to death seven years ago. Re: credits on the TtT album -- What exactly is a "guitar orchestra?" I vaguely remember reading an article somewhere in which JM said she had been introduced to/learned/picked up some kind of way of programming her various tunings into a computer so that she wouldn't have to continually retune her guitars manually. I assume that's what this refers to. Is it possibly responsible for the somewhat "muddy" sound on some of the songs on that album? (A meta question) Um, are we allowed to speculate/comment/ask questions about JM herself and her personal life? This may have been specified when I signed up, but I don't remember, and I've noticed it doesn't happen much, if at all, here at (hopefully, soon, again?) Merry Olde JMDL. That question having been posed, in the painting on the TtT album insert of the man with reflective glasses reading a newspaper or mag, a bowl in the foreground with a key, lightbulb and herbs, and a lightwsitch in the background -- is that the mysterious (to me) Don(ald) Freed (of "Facelift")? Speaking of the paintings on that album and on BSN, I do think she's getting better and better, or, I should say, more to my taste. Although her lyrics are sometimes chiding, I find her paintings peaceful, serene, sometimes playful on those albums. I don't always get her symbolism (as in the first painting I mentioned, with key, bulb, switch -- I know, shadows and light, and maybe change... someone help me here -- I like the visual arts, but am somewhat of a moron when trying to interpret them). Also, (really personal here) is JM still with Mr. Freed? Was he one of the guys seated next to Joni on that "Special Night" thingy last year? Also, was her daughter there -- one of the young women seated near her that night looked sorta like the one picture of Kilauren I've seen. In the title song on TtT, who are Sophia and Ana? Real people, or is she referring to mythology? (God, I'm lazy.) Did anyone else have trouble figuring out the rhythm pattern/time signature in "Stay in Touch", or was it just kinda free with lots of fermate? Still on TtT, that over-the-shoulder painting of herself with a deer in the foreground, people in the distance, opposite "My Best to You" -- could that have been a peace offering to her mother -- maybe it was/is one of her favorite songs? Is JM's mom still alive? Her dad? Again, my apologies if (a) y'all thrashed these things all out years ago, and (b) if we're not supposed to dig into Joni's personal life here. If the latter, ignore the offending questions/musings. Peace, love and siquomb to all, Walt ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 09 Sep 2001 21:46:24 +0100 From: colin Subject: Re: Earthquake coming? > Okay, this is old discussion to most of you -- but did anyone else wince even > slightly at Joni's choice of "Sex Kills"? I know I'm nitpicking, and she was > mostly attacking commercialism and bad vibes and behaviors, but I assume she > was referring to AIDS (what else?), and, well, we all know it isn't the sex > which kills. I have always assumed this is what she meant tho of course, in this context, sex kills has always been true. Prior to the discovery of penicillin 64000 people died from syphilis per year, just in the UK. Okay, I get the point that it isn't sex itself that kills but the virus or bug one get get from having sex. However, i think many people have this idea that sex kills in their psych and with good reason. It's seems to be a bit like saying that it isn't the jump off that tall building that killed you but the ground you hit. Technically this correct-the jump didn't harm you at all. I have never had to practise safe sex. If was single again, i don't think i'd have sex ever again. For a variety of reasons, lack of spontaneity, fear of the damn condom breaking, and......well you get the idea! Paranoid about it? yes, of course. bw colin ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 09 Sep 2001 15:53:49 -0700 From: Michael Paz Subject: Re: gratitude (njc) Suze- I suffered thru this one as well, but the good news is, the Saints really played a good game (in the second half). I WILL be a Lions fan till the death tho as they are from the city of my birth. Hope you are settling into the school year well and that you are not going into the fecking twilight zone in the middle of class. Peace Michael on 9/9/01 1:23 PM, Suze Cameron at suze_1@lycos.com wrote: > > My two cents on this non-sunny Sunday. > > N.P. Lions being thrashed by the Packers > > Long suffering Lions fan, > > Sue ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 09 Sep 2001 16:01:27 -0700 From: Michael Paz Subject: Re: Earthquake coming? Walt- The only question I am qualified to answer is this one. This topic has been beaten to death, but one I continue to love. She discovered the VG-8 before this project and actually played it here in New Orleans for the first time at the Jazz Fest. It is a fantastic box that kept our Joan touring long after she might have given up the strings for brushes. I am currently having a love hate relationship with my VG-8 (s) and am embrassing the idea of buying a new Garrison guitar with reinforcement built in the body, so I can learn how to do the tunings on the fly the way so many listers do so well. There is nothing like the sound eminating right from your lap as opposed to a speaker. If you wwant to learn more about the VG-8 and what it does you can check out the VG-8 web site and you can do a thread search in the archives to see alot of the past discussion on the topic. Peace Michael on 9/9/01 1:25 PM, BigWaltinSF@aol.com at BigWaltinSF@aol.com wrote: > > Re: credits on the TtT album -- What exactly is a "guitar orchestra?" I > vaguely remember reading an article somewhere in which JM said she had been > introduced to/learned/picked up some kind of way of programming her various > tunings into a computer so that she wouldn't have to continually retune her > guitars manually. I assume that's what this refers to. Is it possibly > responsible for the somewhat "muddy" sound on some of the songs on that album? ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 09 Sep 2001 16:59:32 -0400 From: Vince Lavieri Subject: Sex Kills 2001 BigWaltinSF@aol.com wrote: > Okay, this is old discussion to most of you -- but did anyone else wince even > slightly at Joni's choice of "Sex Kills"? No. > I know I'm nitpicking, and she was > mostly attacking commercialism and bad vibes and behaviors, but I assume she > was referring to AIDS (what else?), I don't think that she was referring to AIDS at all. > and, well, we all know it isn't the sex > which kills. Of course, I'm at a loss to come up with a way she could have > fit any other wording into the song without ruining the flow. Still... > Sorry if this was discussed to death seven years ago. > With every new discussion of a topic we always learn new things and get new insights! So we welcome new discussions of previously discussed topics; for starters, we have not had your insights yet! I probably change my understanding and interpretation of the song once a year, but... the song is about justice (just ice) and the spoiling of the environment (Exxon) and the line immediately preceding "sex kills" is "sex sells everything". The words go on to talk about the disconnect of people from their own lives and covers a host of society's ills, including kids packing guns to school. At the time of Columbine, this song got a lot of play in here - don't know if I would ever want to go back and read that myriad of threads again or not, as it was emotional, but if you can locate that thread, I'd recommend them. Sex sells everything and distracts us from what is important: justice, environment, youth, etc. etc. etc. And as a gay man I am surely convinced that the gay community is as guilty as the straight community of being willingly distracted by sex instead of dealing with real life. Rolling Stone has published some brilliant articles on gun violence in schools and the causes thereof, but to sell the magazine, the cover will almost always feature some nearly naked female singer in buff shape, and I suspect that the RS stories on violence in our culture are among the less well read by its readers. And my latest issues of OUT are feature nearly naked men in buff shape and what is the hottest new thing in gay culture but very few follow-ups to the Exxon Valdez oil spill (a key feature of this song) or anything on oil drilling in the Alaskan wilderness. The commercialization of sex for everything in our society has distracted us from dealing with that which is real, Joni says IMHO, and that is why it is of my favorite songs by Joni ever. Because I think she is right on here. And she says that sex sells everything, sex kills, not as a judgment but as a lament. I also think that sex can kill. AIDS is a virus, stds are viruses, and these happen in the imperfections of the physical world in which we live. As you are new to the list (and a belated welcome by the way!) when you see my signature, please do not misunderstand. I am far, far from some right wing zealot, please know that. In my ministry (and life) I have encountered a number of people who have used sex as a weapon, and who have taken absolutely foolhardy risks (with sex, drugs, alcohol, whatever) that have killed, in the search for the momentary thrill. Sex sells everything. As I write this, I am watching the US Open, Sampras vs Hewitt (Hewitt is damned cute too) and Mass Mutual insurance just used a swimming sperm to sell their financial services. Again, welcome! I am sorry that I have not greeted you sooner! (the Rev) Vince http://www.pathwaynet.com/stmatthias ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 09 Sep 2001 17:09:34 -0400 From: Vince Lavieri Subject: Joni's personal life BigWaltinSF@aol.com wrote: > > > (A meta question) Um, are we allowed to speculate/comment/ask questions about > JM herself and her personal life? This may have been specified when I signed > up, but I don't remember, and I've noticed it doesn't happen much, if at all, > here at (hopefully, soon, again?) Merry Olde JMDL. > I didn't see this the first time around - I laughed at loud when I read it! We've had any number of discussions about Joni's life, whether we approved of who she dated or married (Larry Klein tends to get raked over the coals - I bet he or his alter ego will respond soon!!!!!), and many fascinating insights into Joni's life as it set the context for here music from people who have visited places where Joni lived and brought us insights into the development of the artist in her context. I am vastly understanding the serious discussions about Joni's personal life for how it impacted on some of her very personal music - and as with any artist, these are fair questions that need be discussed. Also, some here were a part of Joni's reunion with her daughter and others know that that story and tell it better than I so I will leave that for others - but discuss her life? Hell, we've jumped right into it! And Joni and us are the better for it! Wally Breese, the founder of the Joni homepage, is no longer with us. Joni extended extraordinary kindness to that extraordinary gentle man in the last months of Wally's life and the accounts of Wally's weekend with Joni in her home a few months prior to his death are very moving, and I can't find those right off, so if someone has the direct URL, could you please post it as I have lost it. (the Rev) Vince ------------------------------ End of JMDL Digest V2001 #391 ***************************** ------- Post messages to the list by clicking here: mailto:joni@smoe.org Unsubscribe by clicking here: mailto:joni-digest-request@smoe.org?body=unsubscribe ------- Siquomb, isn't she?