From: les@jmdl.com (JMDL Digest) To: joni-digest@smoe.org Subject: JMDL Digest V2001 #351 Reply-To: joni@smoe.org Sender: les@jmdl.com Errors-To: les@jmdl.com Precedence: bulk Unsubscribe: mailto:joni-digest-request@smoe.org?body=unsubscribe Archives: http://www.smoe.org/lists/joni Websites: http://www.jmdl.com http://www.jonimitchell.com JMDL Digest Thursday, August 16 2001 Volume 2001 : Number 351 The Official Joni Mitchell Homepage, created by Wally Breese, can be found at http://www.jonimitchell.com. It contains the latest news, a detailed bio, Original Interviews, essays, lyrics and much much more. The JMDL website can be found at http://www.jmdl.com and contains interviews, articles, the member gallery, archives, and much more. Information on the 4th "Annual" New England JoniFest: http://www.jmdl.com/jfne2001.cfm ========== TOPICS and authors in this Digest: -------- Today in Joni History: August 16 [les@jmdl.com] Today's Articles: August 16 [les@jmdl.com] Re: Happy Birthday Croz! ["Kakki" ] best of the 80'S? ["shane mattison" ] Re: Best of the 80s? [LXROSS@ctrl.co.uk] Uphellya [Gordon Mackie ] Re: Best of the 80s? [] NJC That Whiny Elvis [SCJoniGuy@aol.com] Re: Best of the 80s? [SCJoniGuy@aol.com] Re: Happy Birthday Croz! ["Mark or Travis" ] NJC Make a new Dubya [SCJoniGuy@aol.com] Collaboration? [SCJoniGuy@aol.com] Re: Collaboration? [Don Rowe ] Re: NJC That Whiny Elvis [AzeemAK@aol.com] Re: Collaboration? [cvickery@danielrealty.com] my latest news - (or boring medical stuff...) [Anne Sandstrom ] Re: NJC That Whiny Elvis [colin ] NJC Tim Curry [SCJoniGuy@aol.com] Fw: P-t-B: Festival News update Nick Drake Film(njc) ["Victor Johnson" ] Re: her best sleeve [Don Rowe ] Re: her best sleeve ["Mike Hicks" ] Re: her best sleeve [Brian Gross ] Re: her best sleeve [RoseMJoy@aol.com] Re: Best of the 80s? ["Kakki" ] RE: NJC Make a new Dubya ["Wally Kairuz" ] RE: my latest news - (or boring medical stuff...) ["Wally Kairuz" ] RE: Paiting with ?? and music JC ["Wally Kairuz" ] Re: her best sleeve [colin ] Re: her best sleeve [Jason Maloney ] Re: her best sleeve [Randy Remote ] Best of the 80's? ["kerry" ] bad joni portrait/env.(ebay) [Randy Remote ] Re: bad joni portrait/env.(ebay) [RoseMJoy@aol.com] Re: Collaboration? ["Mark or Travis" ] Jonifest Update: THE LIST!!! [AsharaJM@aol.com] Re: my latest news - (or boring medical stuff...) [Bruyere ] Re: my latest news - (or boring medical stuff...) [Catherine McKay ] Re: Collaboration? ["Kakki" ] RE: NJC Make a new Dubya ["Wally Kairuz" ] Thoughts from Joni on collboration and producers ["Kakki" Subject: Re: Happy Birthday Croz! Hell wrote: > He does have an amazing ear for harmony. He also does it differently from > almost anyone else. He kind of drifts around very subtley, so you hardly > notice he's there, but when you take him away, you notice the "hole". It's > actually quite amazing to listen to any CSN track with 3-part harmony and > try and listen for the different voices. Stills and Nash are pretty easy to > pick, but Crosby is really elusive. I thought it was high praise when > Crosby said (on the CSNY list) that the Indigo Girls have great harmonies. > They do, but to hear someone like Cros say it is quite a compliment! This is a great take on the Croz. Whenever he praises someone I always sit up and take notice, knowing they must be the tops. He knows. A happy belated birthday to him - he's truly a marvel. > I'm not sure who I'd like to see Joni collaborate with - I don't really > think she needs anyone else. And to be honest, I think her ego would get in > the way of a true collaboration, and it would all end in tears - not Joni's! I'm with you - in fact, I never want to see Joni collaborate with anyone else ever again! ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 16 Aug 2001 03:00:40 -0600 From: "shane mattison" Subject: best of the 80'S? i don't think any of her albums is a stinker. my fav of the 80's is Dog Eat Dog... its got a punch, a "bite" - i have a living room main painting called "barking dogs": a dog is abstractly barking on t.v....it fits, very much like joni's paintings and very much like DED...an edge to the album...the synths are punchy on this one ... the other two are toss-ups to me...as an album, CMIARS seems more consistent as a whole...number one is memorable...up in alberta at least, secret place and cool water were radio hits, which they deserved... WTRF, romantic in spots, too poppy an attempt at "west-coast rock" (?) in others..."yes i do i luv ya" drives me up the wall for someone with joni's ability...the discoish lean to a few tracks might be her poorest work ...but then there's "fire and ice" "love" "chinese cafe"...others... like i say, i'd buy all 3 albums over again if i had to...don juan's reckless daughter and hejira though can't be touched by them...(imho) shane (by the way, judaism, christianity, and islam largely the same about not into reincarnation...john the baptist embodies typology, that is, instead of being elijah, he came in the spirit and power of elijah - a related vocation, symbolic - a preparer of the messianic...though the real elijah is prophesized as returning before the judgment day...) ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 16 Aug 2001 10:01:21 +0100 From: LXROSS@ctrl.co.uk Subject: Re: Best of the 80s? The trouble with these three collections is the each have cracking songs on them cheek by jowl with songs that just don't do anything for me. As Azeem said, take Chinese Cafe and Love away from WTRF and there seems little to revisit the collection for. DED too has songs that I really love. Dog eat Dog and especially Impossible Dreamer are divine for me. The production I accept as of-its-time and can't get real worked up about. CMIARS I think is the best, most cohesive of the bunch and predicted the next slew of work. I also feel on this album she was re-asserting her command and control of the production process. I love to bits Reoccurring Dream with its fast harmonies and humour. The only dislikeable songs being Dancin' Clown and Snakes and Ladders. So, for me in order of preference. CMIARS then DED and then WTRF. One of my favourite songs of Joni's came from the sessions for WTRF, Two Grey Rooms and, much as I love the song, there is something about the sound of the song that jars and I've never really known what it is. Perhaps you Sound and Production boffins have an informed view. I'd certainly like to hear it. Les (London) ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 16 Aug 2001 10:00:59 +0100 From: Gordon Mackie Subject: Uphellya The lovely Hell wrote OK, I have a confession. I do not like Elvis Costello at all. I think his voice is awful, very "nasal" and whiney - it really grates on me. If I hear him singing, I have to turn it off immediately, it gets on my nerves so much! I seriously don't see why he's so highly rated - I don't really even like his writing style. I laughed ...this could be my partner talking about Joni Mitchell. Funny thing taste Oh and Hell...those uderpants and the flames...what kinda saunas do you have down there...lol Have a hot day Gordon PS Uphellya ( Im sure the spelling is wrong.. is a Viking spectacle on the Shetland Isles where they burn longboats ....still). It was the only pun with Hell I could think of that you may not have heard already ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 16 Aug 2001 10:25:35 +0100 From: Subject: Re: Best of the 80s? > now we hear Larry Klein's real name is Clueless West Coast Approach to > Studio Rock. > I didn't know where you're getting that from Kakki, I didn't mention him at all. In fact I'm always baffled by the amount of credit/ blame that poor fellow gets (in this forum anyway, maybe the other 3 million non jmdl Joni fans love him to bits). Philip ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 16 Aug 2001 08:25:46 EDT From: SCJoniGuy@aol.com Subject: NJC That Whiny Elvis <> I totally understand that, Hell...for years I made compilation tapes for my sisters, and my older sister finally told me NOT to give her any more Elvis tunes as she couldn't stand his voice. BUT his songs can't be denied...for someone to say that they are a 'lyrics' person, and then deny the lyrical genius of Elvis Costello, well I just may have to slap you silly at the fest, darlin'! ;~) And like Joni says about Tim Curry singing "Cold Blue Steel & Sweet Fire", he has a way of spitting out a lyric like: "Some say that love is like a tumor, you've got to cut it out" that just stops me in my tracks. Now I'm not saying that you HAVE to like him, only that his songs have a quality that only a *handful* of writers can aspire to. Like Joni, he's become somewhat less prolific; unlike Joni he continues to move forward instead of backward. Bob NP: JT, "Yellow & Rose" ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 16 Aug 2001 08:41:34 EDT From: SCJoniGuy@aol.com Subject: Re: Best of the 80s? <> Yes, most historians DO lump CMIARS in with Sgt. Pepper & Pet Sounds...Philip, you slay me, dude! LOL! While I too love the title, it was an ironic bit of self-prophecy, wasn't it? ;~) Bob NP: JT, "Company Man" ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 16 Aug 2001 06:44:11 -0700 From: "Mark or Travis" Subject: Re: Happy Birthday Croz! > OK, I have a confession. I do not like Elvis Costello at all. I think his > voice is awful, very "nasal" and whiney - it really grates on me. If I hear > him singing, I have to turn it off immediately, it gets on my nerves so > much! I seriously don't see why he's so highly rated - I don't really even > like his writing style. I'm with you, Hell. Can hardly stand the sound of his voice & I never listened any too closely to be able to judge his writing. But what I can remember is not all that memorable to me. Oh well. Taste is tast. > > I'm not sure who I'd like to see Joni collaborate with - I don't really > think she needs anyone else. And to be honest, I think her ego would get in > the way of a true collaboration, and it would all end in tears - not Joni's! And I agree here as well. Joni doesn't need a collaborator. Collaboration in her writing is not a natural thing for her to do. And besides, when she did collaborate with that man she was married to, look how many people bitched up a storm and blamed him for the alleged poor quality of her 80s work? Mark in Seattle who saw Rickie Lee Jones in concert last night. Crow will be served at my dinner table later today when I have time to write more. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 16 Aug 2001 09:55:13 EDT From: SCJoniGuy@aol.com Subject: NJC Make a new Dubya http://www.oddcast.com/vhost/bush/host.php ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 16 Aug 2001 10:24:49 EDT From: SCJoniGuy@aol.com Subject: Collaboration? <> Truer words were never spoken; she doesn't *need* to ever write another song either but I hope she does! <> Maybe that's why I'm intrigued by the possibilities...the challenges that it presents, as opposed to the downhill coasting. After all, it was her collaboration with Charles Mingus that produced that record, and songs like Sweet Sucker Dance, Dry Cleaner, Chair In The Sky, etc. I think there's a difference between working with a creative equal (Mingus, Pastorius, Hancock) and working with a spouse. Plus there's the emotional connection. One can't be truly open to critical honesty when one is working with a spouse or lover, there's too much emotional baggage. But when the emotions can be put aside, or when there are no emotional connections to begin with the work comes first and is better as a result. Back to Mingus...recall that Charles wanted first to put out a record based on T.S. Eliot pieces, but Joni dismissed that entirely. They recorded the songs they wanted to go with, but for whatever reason canned them, re-recorded them and they got to where the project ended up, which was probably the best alternative. That's the kind of give & take that makes for an effective collaboration, and I guess that's more of what I'd like to see her involve herself with. She herself talks of the enormous growth as an artist she experienced with "Mingus". Bob NP: James Taylor, "You've Got A Friend" ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 16 Aug 2001 07:58:38 -0700 (PDT) From: Don Rowe Subject: Re: Collaboration? - --- SCJoniGuy@aol.com wrote: <> I'm not so sure I can accept this statement without reservation. Of course, part of this stems from how you define "need" and "collaboration" ... if you'll fogive my waxing Clintonian! ;-) Anyway, look at C&S. I believe Tom Scott is credited with doing the string arrangements for several of the songs ... something Joni "needed" him to do because she doesn't read or write music. Now I'm not saying that the chords & notes are anyone's but hers -- but I'd have to qualify the level of advice and knowledge Scott brought to the process as a "collaborative" effort. Scott even shares a credit for the arrangement of "Down To You" -- and Joni doesn't exactly pass out those sorts of party favors when it comes to creative credits. Again, I'd have to consider that collaboration on some level. I also don't see how you could easily consider Hejira, DJRD & a good bit of Mingus anything but a "collaboration" between Joni & Jaco. First off, Joni doesn't play bass. Second, NOBODY was playing or has played the bass like Jaco. So she "needed" him to create the unique sound of the music ... on Hejira & DJRD in particular. Again, I'm sure all final creative decisions were hers, but Jaco's creativity, innovation and virtuosity certainly rise far above the level of "contribution" to these landmark albums. Just my dos pesos. Of course, if you mean Joni doesn't need someone like a Lerner needed Lowe, Rogers needed Hammerstein etc. -- I'd agree! ;-) Don Rowe ===== Visit me anytime at http://www.mp3.com/donrowe Make international calls for as low as $.04/minute with Yahoo! Messenger http://phonecard.yahoo.com/ ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 16 Aug 2001 11:25:05 EDT From: AzeemAK@aol.com Subject: Re: NJC That Whiny Elvis In a message dated 16/08/01 13:27:45 GMT Daylight Time, SCJoniGuy@aol.com writes: << I totally understand that, Hell...for years I made compilation tapes for my sisters, and my older sister finally told me NOT to give her any more Elvis tunes as she couldn't stand his voice. BUT his songs can't be denied... [...] for someone to say that they are a 'lyrics' person, and then deny the lyrical genius of Elvis Costello, >> Well I disagree. I think he's extremely overrated - which is not to say he isn't good. I couldn't claim an in depth knowledge of his oeuvre, but I've heard a lot of his stuff, ever since he started out in the late 70s. His first few albums were all pretty good, with some truly great songs. More recently, I'm not so sure. I think his lyrics are meretricious - they flatter to deceive. There was an unintended irony in the title of the song All This Useless Beauty - the phrase "full of sound and fury, signifying nothing" springs to mind. Some of them leave a nasty taste in the mouth, especially in the bile directed towards women. Just an example of this is a CD single I had with 4 songs; two of them were So Like Candy and Sulky Girl. Can't remember what the other two were, but all of them made me wince slightly. Check out how many of his songs are written in the third person feminine. I've had this conversation with two big EC fans - one of them thought I was talking rubbish, the other agreed! Make of that what you will... Anyhow Hell, I'm with you on this one! ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 16 Aug 2001 10:22:37 -0500 From: cvickery@danielrealty.com Subject: Re: Collaboration? Music slut and Joni-thread originator extraordinaire Bob wrote: <> And here's my 2 cents: Bob, I'm with you on the Elvis Costello thing! He's an *amazing* lyricist and I think a collaborative effort between he and Joni would produce outstanding results. Other artists I'd love to see her thrown in with: Tom Waits and Ani DiFranco. Especially Ani. They have so much in common already - their personal strength, the tunings, the thought-provoking lyrics, the "fu*k the industry" mindset, etc etc - but their styles are *so* divergent. It makes me smile to imagine their musical progeny. Will it happen? I won't be holding my breath. The Mingus thing was fortuitous timing - Joni was infatuated with jazz and Mingus *was* jazz. I don't know that the avenues that Tom, Ani or Elvis explore hold that same appeal for Joni. But a new way of looking at things, through their eyes, would likely spark the muse, and that can't be a bad thing, can it? Cindy ps - Hell, please email me your source for asbestos underwear. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 16 Aug 2001 11:55:45 -0400 From: Anne Sandstrom Subject: my latest news - (or boring medical stuff...) Hi everyone. I just got home from meeting with my oncologist. The PET scan does show one spot, about 3 cm. in diameter. The next step is surgery, most likely a laparoscopy. I'll meet with the surgeon on August 31 (he's on vacation next week). If that is in fact the only spot, I might or might now have to have radiation afterward. I'm really hopeful that there really is just one spot. That means no chemo. This also means I'll be an JoniFest. (Yay!) lots of love Anne ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 16 Aug 2001 17:23:28 +0100 From: colin Subject: Re: NJC That Whiny Elvis > And like Joni says about Tim Curry singing "Cold Blue Steel & Sweet Fire", he has a way of spitting out a lyric like: > is this the same Tim curry as the actor? The one in the Rocky Horror Picture Show and other films? ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 16 Aug 2001 17:29:55 +0100 From: colin Subject: Re: NJC That Whiny Elvis I agree with you hell. Dpnit know the lyrcis cos I can't get past the voice. Exactly the same with Dylan and De Franco. Taste is taste and individual. I remember people thinking Punk was fab and know people who think Rap is fab. I dislike. Mind you I also think Joni can't sing but have all her works!!!!! ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 16 Aug 2001 13:01:34 EDT From: SCJoniGuy@aol.com Subject: NJC Tim Curry <> Yep, the same him. He covers "Cold Blue Steel & Sweet Fire" as well as "All I Want". I'm not *real* keen on his singing voice, but Joni says that his spirited vocal is better suited to CBSASF than her own. Bob NP: JT, "Your Smiling Face" ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 16 Aug 2001 13:07:08 -0400 From: "Victor Johnson" Subject: Fw: P-t-B: Festival News update Nick Drake Film(njc) Festival News update Nick Drake FilmFor anyone interested in Nick Drake, I highly recommend catching this documentary which will appear soon in New York and at other festivals. Victor - ----- Original Message ----- From: nickdrakefilm Sent: Wednesday, August 15, 2001 7:53 PM Subject: P-t-B: Festival News update Nick Drake Film After last month's succesful screenings in Brisbane and Melbourne 'A Skin Too Few - the Days Of Nick Drake' will now go to: The New York International Independent Film & Video Festival, where it is scheduled in the following location: Sutton 1 & 2 , 205 East 57th St. (off 3rd Ave) Time: 2PM Date: Thursday September 13th, and it is for free!! It was given an award for 'Best Foreign Documentary' in July by a jury at their LA venue, but the LA audience screening will be held at their next venue in Los Angeles (we keep you updated) A screening at the Leeds International Filmfestival and in the same week during a Nick Drake Day in a bookstore in Leeds (don't ask where as it is part of the festival, and this one on video, helas), in between Sept. 27th-Oct. 12th 2001 Vancouver International Film Festival, Sept. 27th-Oct. 12th 2001 Gijon International Film Festival Spain, Nov. 23th-30th 2001 Furher updates soon, as we are expecting to get answers from other festivals. There are also slightly more chances on a DVD release at the end of this year. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 16 Aug 2001 13:07:54 -0400 From: "Victor Johnson" Subject: Fw: MORE FESTIVAL SCREENINGS of Nick Drake film(njc) MORE FESTIVAL SCREENINGSFrom: nickdrakefilm Sent: Thursday, August 16, 2001 6:49 AM Subject: MORE FESTIVAL SCREENINGS Just as the other update was mailed a note from a few more festivals wanting to screen 'A Skin Too Few' came in. Here is the complete list as for now: The NEW YORK International Independent Film & Video Festival, screening on Thursday September 13th Cinema Texas International Short Film Festival, AUSTIN TX USA, September 14th - -23rd HELSINKI Love and Anarchy Film Festival September 20th - 30th 2001 Doclands Film Festival, DUBLIN, Ireland September 27th - 30th, 2001 BERLIN Beta Filmfestival, Germany 29th September -5th October The Leeds International Filmfestival and in the same week at a Nick Drake Day in a bookstore (on video) in LEEDS UK, Sept. 27th-Oct. 12th 2001 VANCOUVER International Film Festival, Canada, September 27th-Oct. 12th 2001 Olympia Film Festival, OLYMPIA WA USA, October 12th - 21st 2001 SHEFFIELD International Documentary Festival, UK, October 22nd - 28th 2001 GIJON International Film Festival, Spain, Nov. 23th-30th 2001 BUENOS AIRES International Filmfestival of Independent Film, Argentina, April 19th - 29th 2002 ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 16 Aug 2001 13:15:48 EDT From: SCJoniGuy@aol.com Subject: Re: Collaboration? <> If they could ever put anything together...I imagine those two headstrong women trying to work with each other and all I see is a MAJOR catfight breaking out! :~D But it COULD be a wonderful thing, to be sure. Ani is at the TOP of her game right now. I see where Ani has performed "Beat of Black Wings" in concert. Don't have it, maybe someday. <> Excellent point...timing is everything, and I don't think Joni *desires* the musical growth now that she did 25 years ago. <> And that's really all I was trying to say. Thanks for doing it in a more positive way than I did! :~) Bob NP: JT, "Bartender's Blues" ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 16 Aug 2001 13:32:43 EDT From: FMYFL@aol.com Subject: Re: NJC Tim Curry In a message dated 8/16/01 1:03:24 PM Eastern Daylight Time, SCJoniGuy@aol.com writes: << Yep, the same him. He covers "Cold Blue Steel & Sweet Fire" as well as "All I Want". I'm not *real* keen on his singing voice, but Joni says that his spirited vocal is better suited to CBSASF than her own. >> I happen to like Curry's voice very much. I know it's not a "beautiful" voice by any means, but I was very disappointed when he quit making albums and pursued is acting career. I also like his version of "Cold Blue Steel and Sweet Fire" more than Joni's. I can still remember his music video of "I Do The Rock". It may have been one on MTV in the beginning stages (not sure), but it was a great song/video. ........and Colin, you can hear Tim Curry providing background vocals on of your favorite singers albums. I can't remember which song, but he can be heard on Carly's "Spy". Jimmy ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 16 Aug 2001 10:53:18 -0700 (PDT) From: Nuriel Tobias Subject: her best sleeve what do you think is joni's best album sleeve? i would love to know. yours, nuriel _____________________________________________________________ Free email, web pages, news, entertainment, weather and MORE! Check out -------------------------------> http://wowmail.com ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 16 Aug 2001 11:13:31 -0700 (PDT) From: Don Rowe Subject: Re: her best sleeve - --- Nuriel Tobias wrote: > what do you think is joni's best album sleeve? i Well, while it's awful hard for white, male heterosexuals like myself to choose between the HOSL gatefold and, of course, "For The Roses" ... I'd still have to pick: Hejira Don Rowe ;-) ===== Visit me anytime at http://www.mp3.com/donrowe Make international calls for as low as $.04/minute with Yahoo! Messenger http://phonecard.yahoo.com/ ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 16 Aug 2001 14:09:42 -0500 From: "Mike Hicks" Subject: Re: her best sleeve > Date: Thu, 16 Aug 2001 11:13:31 -0700 (PDT) > From: Don Rowe > Subject: Re: her best sleeve > To: Nuriel Tobias , joni@smoe.org > Reply-to: Don Rowe > --- Nuriel Tobias wrote: > > what do you think is joni's best album sleeve? i > > Well, while it's awful hard for white, male > heterosexuals like myself to choose between the HOSL > gatefold and, of course, "For The Roses" ... I'd still > have to pick: > > Hejira > > My sentiments to the tee! Mike ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 16 Aug 2001 14:15:58 -0400 From: Brian Gross Subject: Re: her best sleeve Nuriel Tobias wrote: > what do you think is joni's best album sleeve? i would love to know. I like the three penis album covers ;-) (Clouds, Hejira, and Mingus) Brei (looking to borrow those asbestos undies whenever y'all are done with them) - -- After twenty-three years you'd think I could find A way to let you know somehow That I want to see your smiling face Forty-five years from now. --Stan Rogers ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 16 Aug 2001 14:30:35 EDT From: RoseMJoy@aol.com Subject: Re: her best sleeve In a message dated 8/16/01 1:54:25 PM Eastern Daylight Time, nuriel@wowmail.com writes: > what do you think is joni's best album sleeve? i would love to know. > yours, > nuriel > > The first three followed by all the rest rosemjoy@aol.com ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 16 Aug 2001 12:21:30 -0700 From: "Kakki" Subject: Re: Best of the 80s? Sorry Philip - I was only joking around. But the way I see it is that Larry WAS the producer/co-producer of the 80's albums so I don't understand how you and Marcel criticize "west coast/LA production values" and lump it all in together when I think the credit or blame, depending how you look at it, is pretty much attributable to Klein. Most of the best albums of the last half-century were produced in L.A. or the west coast, including all of Joni's albums from the beginning. Oh well. Actually I thought Marcel's and your take on the 80s work was great and I agreed with most of it. Kakki > I didn't know where you're getting that from Kakki, I >didn't mention him at all. In fact I'm always baffled by >the amount of credit/ blame that poor fellow gets (in this >forum anyway, maybe the other 3 million non jmdl Joni > fans love him to bits). ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 16 Aug 2001 16:51:22 -0300 From: "Wally Kairuz" Subject: RE: NJC Make a new Dubya bob!!!!!!!! i'm rolling!!!!!! this is sooooo funny!!! wallyK, have i grown even sillier since i joined this list???? - -----Mensaje original----- De: owner-joni@jmdl.com [mailto:owner-joni@jmdl.com]En nombre de SCJoniGuy@aol.com Enviado el: Jueves, 16 de Agosto de 2001 10:55 a.m. Para: joni@smoe.org Asunto: NJC Make a new Dubya http://www.oddcast.com/vhost/bush/host.php ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 16 Aug 2001 16:53:00 -0300 From: "Wally Kairuz" Subject: RE: my latest news - (or boring medical stuff...) gosd bless you anne!!!!!!!!!! everything will turn out all right, i am SO sure. tons of wallylove - -----Mensaje original----- De: owner-joni@jmdl.com [mailto:owner-joni@jmdl.com]En nombre de Anne Sandstrom Enviado el: Jueves, 16 de Agosto de 2001 12:56 p.m. Para: 'joni@smoe.org' Asunto: my latest news - (or boring medical stuff...) Hi everyone. I just got home from meeting with my oncologist. The PET scan does show one spot, about 3 cm. in diameter. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 16 Aug 2001 12:56:03 -0700 From: "Russell Bowden" Subject: Paiting with ?? and music JC Gang, Last night on KQED (PBS station here in San Francisco) at the end of some stupid pledge break, the screen went immediately into what I guess was the last half of PWWAM. The video portion of the program was excellent, but the sound quality was extremely poor. All you could here was the guitar and bass!! The Diva's Voice was barely heard in a sea of vibrating mud. What gives? Having never seen (!!) the above-mentioned concert, I was wondering if this was a. how it came out originally (I refuse to entertain that notion, really!) b. lousy reception or fault with my viewing unit c.general ill will toward me for not having seen it sooner (It's OK, I'm in therapy) She was singing Amelia ( I think) when it came on. Poor, Poor Audio. Dejectedly, with love, Russ (dry-drooling for Ashara & Co.) _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 16 Aug 2001 16:03:22 EDT From: SCJoniGuy@aol.com Subject: RE: NJC Make a new Dubya <> Probably so...I know that *I* have! Bob NP: Tears For Fears, "Standing On The Corner of the Third World" ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 16 Aug 2001 13:04:54 -0700 (PDT) From: Don Rowe Subject: Re: Paiting with ?? and music JC There were a slew of posts decrying the sound quality of PWWAM when it first came out. Seems your station still had a hold of one of those bad copies. Don Rowe ===== Visit me anytime at http://www.mp3.com/donrowe Make international calls for as low as $.04/minute with Yahoo! Messenger http://phonecard.yahoo.com/ ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 16 Aug 2001 17:11:12 -0300 From: "Wally Kairuz" Subject: RE: Paiting with ?? and music JC russ, beauty unbound, does she sing amelia in painting? wasn't it S&L? wallyK, looking forward - -----Mensaje original----- De: owner-joni@jmdl.com [mailto:owner-joni@jmdl.com]En nombre de Russell Bowden Enviado el: Jueves, 16 de Agosto de 2001 04:56 p.m. Para: joni@smoe.org Asunto: Paiting with ?? and music JC Gang, Last night on KQED (PBS station here in San Francisco) at the end of some stupid pledge break, the screen went immediately into what I guess was the last half of PWWAM. Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 16 Aug 2001 22:04:59 +0100 From: colin Subject: Re: NJC Tim Curry > ........and Colin, you can hear Tim Curry providing background vocals on of > your favorite singers albums. I can't remember which song, but he can be > heard on Carly's "Spy". yes! But i didn't realise it was him! > > > Jimmy - -- bw colin DAK,BRO GC, 950i 940,860,864, 260, 890,Silver 830 and 270, Passap 6000 Duo80 colin@tantra-apso.com http://www.tantra-apso.com ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 16 Aug 2001 22:05:15 +0100 From: colin Subject: Re: her best sleeve Hejira and TI Nuriel Tobias wrote: > what do you think is joni's best album sleeve? i would love to know. > yours, > nuriel > > _____________________________________________________________ > Free email, web pages, news, entertainment, weather and MORE! > Check out -------------------------------> http://wowmail.com - -- bw colin DAK,BRO GC, 950i 940,860,864, 260, 890,Silver 830 and 270, Passap 6000 Duo80 colin@tantra-apso.com http://www.tantra-apso.com ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 16 Aug 2001 22:45:13 +0100 From: Jason Maloney Subject: Re: her best sleeve Nuriel Tobias wrote: > > what do you think is joni's best album sleeve? i would love to know. CMIARS, followed by Hejira. Pure class. Jason, staunch defneder of CMIARS...leave it alone! ;-) ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 16 Aug 2001 16:06:08 -0700 From: Randy Remote Subject: Re: her best sleeve Ladies of the Canyon & Dog Eat Dog Nuriel Tobias wrote: > what do you think is joni's best album sleeve? i would love to know. > yours, > nuriel > > _____________________________________________________________ > Free email, web pages, news, entertainment, weather and MORE! > Check out -------------------------------> http://wowmail.com ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 16 Aug 2001 19:04:00 -0500 From: "kerry" Subject: Best of the 80's? Marcel wrote: >>She was changing from a chik to a mature woman... What does this mean? Do Hejira or HOSL sound like they were written by a "chick?" (or anything previous, for that matter?) Kerry ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 16 Aug 2001 17:37:20 -0700 From: Randy Remote Subject: bad joni portrait/env.(ebay) If you want to see a really bad portrait of Joni-playing a classical guitar, no less.... http://cgi.ebay.com/aw-cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=1265426371 Apparently this was a first day cover for NOW. Apologies if the artist is watching, but pee-yew! RR ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 16 Aug 2001 20:43:54 EDT From: RoseMJoy@aol.com Subject: Re: bad joni portrait/env.(ebay) In a message dated 8/16/01 8:40:22 PM Eastern Daylight Time, guitarzan@saber.net writes: > If you want to see a really bad portrait of Joni-playing a > classical guitar, no less.... > I saw this before and couldn't believe it was even her. It doesn't even look like Joni rosemjoy@aol.com ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 16 Aug 2001 18:25:06 -0700 From: "Mark or Travis" Subject: Re: Collaboration? > Just my dos pesos. Of course, if you mean Joni > doesn't need someone like a Lerner needed Lowe, Rogers > needed Hammerstein etc. -- I'd agree! ;-) > > Don Rowe That's what I meant. I don't think there has been a downward slide in her writing and she doesn't need anyone to help her with it. Of course the contributions of musicians like Jaco & Charles Mingus have been vital to some of Joni's records. I do recall reading that Joni came up with most of the arrangements for Court & Spark and pretty much insisted that the musicians stick to what she gave them. But undoubtedly Tom Scott and the other players contributed something of themselves to the project. Joni hasn't yet made a record where she's the sole performer and I'm not sure I would like it if she did. But I'm just curious enough & enough in awe of her talent that I won't say I hope she never does. But I do agree that she has to have learned from & been enriched by the musicians she's worked with. Particularly the musicians that have the kind of presence that Mingus, Jaco, Herbie Hancock, Wayne Shorter & Brian Blade have. Of course there are many others. But I do think that 'Mingus' was not an easy record for her to make & I don't think that collaborating with a composer or lyricist comes naturally to her. I do agree with Bob, that there was probably some emotional baggage that came with the recording of the albums that Klein was a major player on. But I still refuse to believe that she would allow him to significantly affect or alter her artistic vision for those records. Like them or not, they are Joni Mitchell recordings. Ultimately she was responsible for what went on them. Mark in Seattle ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 16 Aug 2001 21:39:55 EDT From: AsharaJM@aol.com Subject: Jonifest Update: THE LIST!!! Hi everyone! Here is the latest (last?) list for who is coming to the 4th Annual (?) New England Labor Day Jonifest!! It's not too late to be left out, but, you have to HURRY!!! There are only 15 MORE DAYS!!!!!!!! ACK!!!!!!! If your name isn't on here....how can you miss this??? :-) Sound guys, a videographer, LOADS of great SURPRISES!!! :-) Hugs, Ashara **I will be there!!!!!!!!** Ashara and Sal from MA Heather from CT Pearl and Steve from FL Rose from NJ Maggie from MA Nikki from PA Paz from New Orleans Kakki from CA Steve Polifka from WI Lama from KY Wally K. from Argentina Bob Murphy (Murf the Smurf) from RI Chris Marshall from England Bob Muller from SC Chuck E. from MA Anne Sandstrom from MA Patrick from NYC Jody from IL Alison E. from NYC Les from CO Stephen from Vancouver Chris from CT Mags from Canada Brian from NJ Jimmy from FL Marcel and Soizic from CA Lori from DC Jeff from NYC Yael from MI Hell from New Zealand Kerry from WI Russ from CA Claud from PA John van Tiel from Holland Les Ross from England Kay Ashley from NYC Donna Binkley from TX Ric Welch from MA Sue Cameron from MI Catherine McKay from Canada Willy the Shake Leslie and Steve Mixon from CA Susan Guzzi Stephanie Morrison from CO Victor from GA Sharon Buffington from MI Marilyn Huggins from MA Joseph Pramas from MA Kate and Jeff from CA Amy Lohman from MA **Maybe:: Julius from CA Barbara and Steve from CA Jody Serkes Cindy from Alabammy ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 16 Aug 2001 22:16:32 -0400 From: Bruyere Subject: Re: my latest news - (or boring medical stuff...) Let's hope your oncologist is just seeing spots! Best of luck to you Anne. Look forward to seeing you at JoniFest. Heather At 11:55 AM 8/16/01 -0400, Anne Sandstrom wrote: >Hi everyone. > >I just got home from meeting with my oncologist. The PET scan does show one >spot, about 3 cm. in diameter. The next step is surgery, most likely a >laparoscopy. I'll meet with the surgeon on August 31 (he's on vacation >next week). If that is in fact the only spot, I might or might now have to >have radiation afterward. > >I'm really hopeful that there really is just one spot. That means no chemo. > >This also means I'll be an JoniFest. (Yay!) > >lots of love >Anne ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 16 Aug 2001 22:53:23 -0400 (EDT) From: Catherine McKay Subject: Re: Best of the 80s? Of the three, I'd put DED first, followed by WTRF, and bringing up the rear, the mediocre (but let's face it - -we're talking JONI mediocrity here - we should all be so mediocre!) CMIARs. Some point on each... 1. Wild Things Run Fast - "Chinese Cafe" - for some reason, this one just doesn't do it for me as much as it seems to do for so many others on this list - I don't NOT like it, it just seems to go on too long for my liking. However (am I contradicting myself?) I do wish she had done MORE of Unchained Melody (like maybe the whole thing?) I wonder if she could be persuaded to do that one in full on her next orchestral album? There's so much longing in her voice in this song. I love "Moon At The Window" - my favourite song on the whole album "Be Cool" - I like it but don't love it "Underneath The Streetlight" - not a great song, but very joyful - has some annoying bits in it "Love" - another one that I like, but don't love. It would seem blasphemous NOT to like it in any case. 2. Dog Eat Dog (Joni goes punk) Perhaps it IS overproduced, but of the three, this is the only one I bought in CD format. (OK, I lied. I do have CMIARS in CD format, only because I never bought it as an LP when it first came out. I think if I had already had it as an LP, I wouldn't have rushed out to buy the CD once the turntable bought the farm). There is a cohesiveness in DED that doesn't seem to be there in the other two IMO. My favourites on this one are: Fiction The Three Great Stimulants Dog Eat Dog Impossible Dreamer - there are some "God" moments in the singing in this. Lucky Girl - I love the funny syncopated beat on this. 3. Chalk Mark In a Rainstorm Here are the songs I like from this one: My Secret Place Lakota (esp. the chanting) A Bird That Whistles - OK, so Joni didn't write it, but I love the way she does this one. It's not great, but I like it just the same. And one that I love - The Beat Of Black Wings - this song alone is worth the price of admission! - --- Don Rowe wrote: > Okay, we've talked down Joni's 80s catalog until > we're > blue in the face, and we in the DEDMAS (that's the > "Dog Eat Dog Musical Appreciation Society" for you > newcomers!) are out of breath running wind-sprints > to > the defense. > > But it always seems like we look at the "Unholy > Trinity" comparatively ... and judge it by what came > before & after. Rarely, if ever, have we looked at > WTRF, DED & CMIARS on their own. > > So lets! ;-) Which of those 3 80s albums do YOU > think > is the best? The worst? Why? > > Don Rowe Get your free @yahoo.ca address at http://mail.yahoo.ca ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 16 Aug 2001 23:06:55 -0400 (EDT) From: Catherine McKay Subject: Re: my latest news - (or boring medical stuff...) - --- Anne Sandstrom wrote: > Hi everyone. > > I just got home from meeting with my oncologist. The > PET scan does show one > spot, about 3 cm. in diameter. The next step is > surgery, most likely a > laparoscopy. ..... > I'm really hopeful that there really is just one > spot. That means no chemo. > > This also means I'll be an JoniFest. (Yay!) > Hooray!!! Lots of love right back at ya! Get your free @yahoo.ca address at http://mail.yahoo.ca ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 16 Aug 2001 23:16:01 -0400 (EDT) From: Catherine McKay Subject: RE: NJC Make a new Dubya - --- SCJoniGuy@aol.com wrote, in response to Wally K's query: > < list????>> > > Probably so...I know that *I* have! > Yeah, but wait a minute Bob - you *may* have been within the realm of "normal" before you joined the list (who am I to judge?), therefore it was possible for you to become sillier. When it comes to Wally K, though, we are talking about a degree of silliness hitherto unknown in the world. The dials and arrows of the silliometer just go totally haywire when trying to gauge the silliness of the likes of Wally the K. Which means, whether he becomes sillier or not can't even be measured in the terms we mere mortals can comprehend. If God is omniscient and/or omnipotent, then Wally is omni-silly. Get your free @yahoo.ca address at http://mail.yahoo.ca ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 16 Aug 2001 19:48:57 -0700 From: "Kakki" Subject: Re: Collaboration? Mark wrote: > But I do think that 'Mingus' was not an easy record for her to make & > I don't think that collaborating with a composer or lyricist comes > naturally to her. I feel the same way. I sense that with Tom Scott and some of her earlier "collaborators" it just sort of came together serendipitously, like it started out unplanned and they just naturally grooved off and enhanced Joni's music. In that way, I don't consider them exactly collaborators, but rather, contributors. So often it seems that if you plan and deliberate on a creative project, the end product often falls a little shorter than if you'd just come upon it naturally or spontaneously. Too much planning and deliberation almost sets up a forced creativity. Scott and the others in the earlier period seemed to find a fortuitous natural niche with Joni, but when she made a calculated decision to go and collaborate creatively with Mingus, and later with Klein, that sense of essential "Joni-ness" was a little muted. The calculated collaborations did not seem to bring out the highest in Joni and did the earlier ones that occurred naturally. So while I don't ever want her to go purposely looking to hook up with another famous musician just to see what might happen, I would still love if she happened to find an affinity with another that brought out the very best in her. Kakki ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 17 Aug 2001 00:45:27 -0300 From: "Wally Kairuz" Subject: RE: NJC Make a new Dubya catherine, was that a ... compliment? WK - -----Mensaje original----- De: owner-joni@jmdl.com [mailto:owner-joni@jmdl.com]En nombre de Catherine McKay Enviado el: Viernes, 17 de Agosto de 2001 12:16 a.m. Para: SCJoniGuy@aol.com; joni@smoe.org Asunto: RE: NJC Make a new Dubya - --- SCJoniGuy@aol.com wrote, in response to Wally K's query: > < list????>> > > Probably so...I know that *I* have! > Yeah, but wait a minute Bob - you *may* have been within the realm of "normal" before you joined the list (who am I to judge?), therefore it was possible for you to become sillier. When it comes to Wally K, though, we are talking about a degree of silliness hitherto unknown in the world. The dials and arrows of the silliometer just go totally haywire when trying to gauge the silliness of the likes of Wally the K. Which means, whether he becomes sillier or not can't even be measured in the terms we mere mortals can comprehend. If God is omniscient and/or omnipotent, then Wally is omni-silly. Get your free @yahoo.ca address at http://mail.yahoo.ca ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 16 Aug 2001 20:30:22 -0700 From: "Kakki" Subject: Thoughts from Joni on collboration and producers From the mouth of SIQUOMB herself in the Borders Crossing interview earlier this year: BC: You said earlier that you approached songwriting the way a painter does. Can you articulate the relationship between the painting and the songwriting? It's obviously a very close one for you. JM: That's a huge question. Let me break it down. For instance, with music. At the time I began, recording artists required a creature called the producer. The producer is hired by the record company to act as a liaison and he oversees your work. Musicians accept this; everybody looks for a hot producer they can laminate themselves to for greater commercial success. BC: And producers can - and do - radically change the sound of the music. JM: Absolutely. I refused to use a producer from the beginning. David Crosby pretended to produce my first record but basically that was to keep others away so they wouldn't turn my music into something else. He basically preserved the integrity of the first album. BC: What about the close relationship you've had with Larry Klein? JM: That's different; it's private and it's something that happened later. But after the first record, which David pretended to produce, I made 13 albums without a producer. There's not even a producer's credit. That's the thinking of an art student. If you're in art school, nobody would come up and put a mark on your canvas. It is my work, and be damned if anybody is going to put a mark on it. Whatever your reason to make it something else. It isn't my music and if it isn't my music, then I'm being slapped by my piano teacher again. You're going to kill my love of it and it won't go the distance. I knew what a good performance was, so in order to protect my music for the second time I worked with just an engineer. I brought the albums in cheap enough and they sold enough that the company made a profit. The moment they don't make their profits, they're definitely going to sic a producer on you. The idea was to make them fast, make them cheap, but make them the way I wanted. I even had included in my contract that I had the final say on my music. This is unique within the music business and it represents the willfulness of a painter. When I married Larry Klein he was a bass player, but inside our marriage he became a producer. Then he started hanging around in my sessions and that's the main reason why we divorced. Full article can be found at http://www.jmdl.com/articles/docs/0102bc.cfm ------------------------------ End of JMDL Digest V2001 #351 ***************************** ------- Post messages to the list by clicking here: mailto:joni@smoe.org Unsubscribe by clicking here: mailto:joni-digest-request@smoe.org?body=unsubscribe ------- Siquomb, isn't she?