From: les@jmdl.com (JMDL Digest) To: joni-digest@smoe.org Subject: JMDL Digest V2001 #341 Reply-To: joni@smoe.org Sender: les@jmdl.com Errors-To: les@jmdl.com Precedence: bulk Unsubscribe: mailto:joni-digest-request@smoe.org?body=unsubscribe Archives: http://www.smoe.org/lists/joni Websites: http://www.jmdl.com http://www.jonimitchell.com JMDL Digest Friday, August 10 2001 Volume 2001 : Number 341 The Official Joni Mitchell Homepage, created by Wally Breese, can be found at http://www.jonimitchell.com. It contains the latest news, a detailed bio, Original Interviews, essays, lyrics and much much more. The JMDL website can be found at http://www.jmdl.com and contains interviews, articles, the member gallery, archives, and much more. Information on the 4th "Annual" New England JoniFest: http://www.jmdl.com/jfne2001.cfm ========== TOPICS and authors in this Digest: -------- Re: joni and kiss baby [Randy Remote ] Re: Joni's rhymes ["Jim L'Hommedieu" ] Re: joni and kiss baby ["Sharon L. Buffington" ] RE: JMDL Digest V2001 #340 ["Kate Bennett" ] Subject: Re: what we're watching (NJC) ["Kate Bennett" ] a bit goes a long way NJC [colin ] Re: The PC Thing NJC [William T Miyasato ] feline orgasmsNJC [colin ] RE: Subject: Re: what we're watching (NJC) ["Kate Bennett" ] Re: Subject: Re: what we're watching (NJC) [colin ] Re: feline orgasmsNJC [Murphycopy@aol.com] RE: feline orgasmsNJC ["Wally Kairuz" ] Re: feline orgasmsNJC [Murphycopy@aol.com] beyond the garage door (NJC) [jan ] Re: feline orgasmsNJC ["Victor Johnson" ] Re: dylan said to joni [Relayer211@aol.com] Re: beyond the garage door (NJC) ["Sharon L. Buffington" ] Re: Black voices/white faces on record sleeves NJC ["Brenda J. Walker" ] Re: Allman Bros and Phil Lesh and Friends(for all the dead heads in the room) (njc) [john low ] Re: why join 'em? politics, money & the media -long (NJC) ["hell" ] Re: Passion Play ["hell" ] Re: the url of chelsea ["hell" ] ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Thu, 09 Aug 2001 14:28:07 -0700 From: Randy Remote Subject: Re: joni and kiss baby When I saw this subject line, for a second I thought Joni had a baby with Gene Simmons. "Sharon L. Buffington" wrote: > Diana's new CD is due out next month. I can hardly wait. > > shane mattison wrote: > > > > canada's national post has a sense of humour: > > > > < > But you'll find them sidling up to each other in print soon. Pamela Wallin has > > a book out in September that draws on interviews from Joni, Henry and scores > > of others. It's called Speaking of Success: Collected Wisdom and Intimate > > Insights (Key Porter Books).>> > > FDRfan ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 9 Aug 2001 17:38:37 -0400 From: "Jim L'Hommedieu" Subject: Re: Joni's rhymes Nope. Closest I could think of is "limpid". As in "Exquisitely limpid The original classic thing - more of the same" but then... THAT WAS DONALD AND WALTER TOO! Bob Muller said, "I crawl like a viper through these suburban streets, Make love to these women, languid & bittersweet"...has anyone else ever used the word "languid" in a rock and roll song? Always glad to help make someone make a point, Lama ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 09 Aug 2001 16:46:47 -0500 From: "Sharon L. Buffington" Subject: Re: joni and kiss baby Better than Richard Simmons...now even I would have been surprised at that!!! Randy Remote wrote: > > When I saw this subject line, for a second I thought Joni had a > baby with Gene Simmons. > > "Sharon L. Buffington" wrote: > > > Diana's new CD is due out next month. I can hardly wait. > > > > shane mattison wrote: > > > > > > canada's national post has a sense of humour: > > > > > > < > > But you'll find them sidling up to each other in print soon. Pamela Wallin has > > > a book out in September that draws on interviews from Joni, Henry and scores > > > of others. It's called Speaking of Success: Collected Wisdom and Intimate > > > Insights (Key Porter Books).>> > > > FDRfan ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 9 Aug 2001 14:32:43 -0700 From: "Kate Bennett" Subject: what is common sense ? njc i prefer uncommon sense ;~) ******************************************** Kate Bennett www.katebennett.com sponsored by Polysonics www.polysonics.com Discover the Indies at Taylor Guitars: http://www.taylorguitars.com/artists/awp/indies/bennett.html ******************************************** ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 9 Aug 2001 14:32:44 -0700 From: "Kate Bennett" Subject: RE: JMDL Digest V2001 #340 Hi Bob, I am glad to hear you liked Glen...he's a local SB guy & plays around town a bunch...I like him a lot too... Bob wrote, "Also, while I'm thinking about TW covers, I went last night to see Glen Phillips, and it was a great show. He was the lead singer/songwriter for Toad the Wet Sprocket, did all of their hits, some stuff off his new solo record, and an acapella version of TW's "Johnsburg, IL". Nice stuff!" ******************************************** Kate Bennett www.katebennett.com sponsored by Polysonics www.polysonics.com Discover the Indies at Taylor Guitars: http://www.taylorguitars.com/artists/awp/indies/bennett.html ******************************************** ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 9 Aug 2001 14:42:49 -0700 From: "Kate Bennett" Subject: Subject: Re: what we're watching (NJC) 6 feet under, sex in the city, sopranos (when it returns), sometimes letterman i guess i should check into the simpsons again...what night? ******************************************** Kate Bennett www.katebennett.com sponsored by Polysonics www.polysonics.com Discover the Indies at Taylor Guitars: http://www.taylorguitars.com/artists/awp/indies/bennett.html ******************************************** ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 09 Aug 2001 23:51:12 +0100 From: colin Subject: Re: why join 'em? politics, money & the media -long (NJC) How do ads work? Are people really so gullible? Do people really believe that soem cream will knock 20 years off their face? Do people really believe that a car will give them power/sex? I cannot think of one thing I have bought because of an advert(except pets and they aren't on tv). i just bought a proper camera with different lenses etc. I bought by looking in a shop at them and asking questions and sying what i wanted it to do. I used to have a wonderful Russian camera, a Zenith that took fantastic pics. it was completely manual. the balsted shutter broke in Canada and it couldn't be repaired-too old- and i bought one of these new fangled fuylly automatic things that takes crap pics. This new one gives me what i want-good close up pics of my dogs and work and no red eye plus clarity. I am not a camera buff and do not develop my own films but I know what i want. Some ads are funny. some make me cringe. the amount of ads that are still so sexist and think women are stupid. the Loreal ads 'becasue you're worth it' make me want to puke. there was also an ad about oven chips which blatently said a mother was not a good mother if she didn't feed this junk to her children!!!! I love the FF on the video! ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 09 Aug 2001 23:53:12 +0100 From: colin Subject: Re: Subject: Re: what we're watching (NJC) > sopranos (when it returns), I admit to onyl wathcing half an episode of this. so maybe i missed the point. However, I cannot for the life of me understand why films/series about gangsters and the Mafia are so popualr. Why glamourise such shit? ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 10 Aug 2001 00:00:09 +0100 From: colin Subject: a bit goes a long way NJC did you know that the size of a man's penis when flacid is no indication of it's size when erect? the smaller flaccid ones grow just as big they just grow more. those that are big when flaccid don't grow that much. So don't fooled and don't be disappointed. - -- bw colin DAK,BRO GC, 950i 940,860,864, 260, 890,Silver 830 and 270, Passap 6000 Duo80 colin@tantra-apso.com http://www.tantra-apso.com ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 9 Aug 2001 15:59:02 -0700 (PDT) From: William T Miyasato Subject: Re: The PC Thing NJC Greetings, Everyone! This is probably way late in response, as I am only now going through digests dated early July (really, how do you all keep up?!), but I wanted to comment on some of the things touched on back then. (Incidentally, this is my first post, although I've been a subscriber since April; did send something in around May or June, which apparently never made it to the digest ... Will this?) Speaking from my own experience, I could be (and have been) categorized thusly: male; gay; Asian-American (at least I think that's still the current-PC term these days), more specifically Japanese-American; Sansei (third generation Japanese-American); local-Hawaiian Japanese (born and raised in Hawaii, as opposed to persons of Japanese ancestry born and raised in the Continental US or Japan, and not to be confused with Japanese-Hawaiian, which denotes a biracial ancestry); left-handed; Joni-fanatic ... where does it end? I don't know if these labels are an attempt from others to find some common ground with me, or my attempt, when I allow myself to get caught up with these labels, to find my "specialness." I just like to think of myself as a person, first and foremost. Like everyone else, I too have my biases/pre- and misconceptions/ignorance to contend with. But the thing I noticed since coming here is that we celebrate our similarities first (i.e. our mutual repsect for Mitchell's art), rather than sniff out the differences, which seems to be the way most human interaction starts. Honestly, while reading through the digests from day to day (or should I say week-to-week ... like I said, I'm way behind!), I never get the male/female, black/white, Democrat/Republican, gay/straight thing. It doesn't happen very often -- when you find your kindred spirit (if you're lucky enough), a supportive circle of friends (again, if you're lucky enough), unconditional love ... And while there are differences of opinion here (I first signed on during the great Bjork debate!) you guys are role models of how things should be. Bravo! Now if only you could go beyond these "walls" and go global ...! Make international calls for as low as $.04/minute with Yahoo! Messenger http://phonecard.yahoo.com/ ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 10 Aug 2001 00:11:44 +0100 From: colin Subject: feline orgasmsNJC Ever wonder why cats make that awful sound when they have sex? Well...a male cats penis has barbs on it like barbed wire. the actual act of intercourse takes approximately 1 second. So he's in, shoots, and is out. As he pulls it out, the barbs scrape the the femal cats vagina. this results in her usually turning around pretty fast to beat him up but before she does much damage she falls to the floor in ecstasy as the result of this 'scrape' is to cause her to have an orgasm. In this way she ovulates. the eggs are not waiting there they are released only upon orgasm. thus the female cat is the only species other than the human woman that has an orgasm, although from what I understand, a female cat has one every time...... - -- bw colin DAK,BRO GC, 950i 940,860,864, 260, 890,Silver 830 and 270, Passap 6000 Duo80 colin@tantra-apso.com http://www.tantra-apso.com ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 9 Aug 2001 15:43:28 -0700 From: "Kate Bennett" Subject: RE: Subject: Re: what we're watching (NJC) i know i know...i have always hated gansta movies...of all people, i shouldn't like this show but i am hooked...i grew up in the area where it is filmed...thats my excuse... ******************************************** Kate Bennett www.katebennett.com sponsored by Polysonics www.polysonics.com Discover the Indies at Taylor Guitars: http://www.taylorguitars.com/artists/awp/indies/bennett.html ******************************************** ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 10 Aug 2001 00:18:33 +0100 From: colin Subject: Re: The PC Thing NJC > I don't know if these labels are an > attempt from others to find some common ground with me, waht a great way to look at this! Wouldn't it be nice? People lable becasue of fear. We need to understand to feel secure and therefore we need to label and put in boxes, in patterns so that we can lessen our fear. Unfortuantely, people often add 'bad' to their lables and to them what they see as different from them in either thinking or appearence is characterised as mad/bad. It also serves as a boost to their own self worth. Having enemies makes us feel superior and more worthy because we can look down upon others. Non whites and women and gay people have served this purpose in western white culture. Women and gays in every(almost) culture plus the non white cultures also have their wrong coulor people. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 10 Aug 2001 00:19:36 +0100 From: colin Subject: Re: Subject: Re: what we're watching (NJC) you don't need an excuse. Just cos I hate them doesn't mean you shouldn't watch it! Kate Bennett wrote: > i know i know...i have always hated gansta movies...of all people, i > shouldn't like this show but i am hooked...i grew up in the area where it is > filmed...thats my excuse... > > ******************************************** > Kate Bennett > www.katebennett.com > sponsored by Polysonics www.polysonics.com > Discover the Indies at Taylor Guitars: > http://www.taylorguitars.com/artists/awp/indies/bennett.html > ******************************************** - -- bw colin DAK,BRO GC, 950i 940,860,864, 260, 890,Silver 830 and 270, Passap 6000 Duo80 colin@tantra-apso.com http://www.tantra-apso.com ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 9 Aug 2001 19:15:01 EDT From: Murphycopy@aol.com Subject: Re: feline orgasmsNJC In a message dated 8/9/01 6:05:32 PM, colin@tantra-apso.com writes: << thus the female cat is the only species other than the human woman that has an orgasm, although from what I understand, a female cat has one every time...... >> I can't decide whether this makes me a cat or a woman! --Bob ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 9 Aug 2001 20:26:06 -0300 From: "Wally Kairuz" Subject: RE: feline orgasmsNJC because of the barbed wire thingy? :-)> wallyK - -----Mensaje original----- De: owner-joni@jmdl.com [mailto:owner-joni@jmdl.com]En nombre de Murphycopy@aol.com Enviado el: Jueves, 09 de Agosto de 2001 08:15 p.m. Para: colin@tantra-apso.com; joni@smoe.org Asunto: Re: feline orgasmsNJC In a message dated 8/9/01 6:05:32 PM, colin@tantra-apso.com writes: << thus the female cat is the only species other than the human woman that has an orgasm, although from what I understand, a female cat has one every time...... >> I can't decide whether this makes me a cat or a woman! --Bob ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 9 Aug 2001 19:28:06 EDT From: Murphycopy@aol.com Subject: Re: feline orgasmsNJC In a message dated 8/9/01 6:25:58 PM, wallykai@fibertel.com.ar writes: << because of the barbed wire thingy? :-)> >> Ouch!!! LOL, literally. --Bob ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 09 Aug 2001 16:28:07 -0700 From: jan Subject: beyond the garage door (NJC) http://www.theonion.com/onion3727/garage_band.html ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 9 Aug 2001 19:59:50 -0400 From: "Victor Johnson" Subject: Re: feline orgasmsNJC > Ever wonder why cats make that awful sound when they have sex? "Did you ever wake up to the sound, Of street cats making love. You might guess from their cries, You were listening to a fight. Well you know, Hate's just the last thing they're thinking of, They're just trying to make it through the night." "Looks Like Rain" (Barlow, Weir) To be played soon in Topsfield on a rainy morning... Victor Victor Johnson http://www.cdbaby.com/victorjohnson "Just beyond the morning falls the river of your dreams, Escaping from the day these wild creatures run away." Victor Johnson ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 9 Aug 2001 20:29:11 EDT From: Relayer211@aol.com Subject: Re: dylan said to joni I was just reading an interview with Neil Diamond where Neil said he hung out back stage with Dylan and Joni before the "Last Waltz" concert. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 09 Aug 2001 20:00:12 -0500 From: "Sharon L. Buffington" Subject: Re: beyond the garage door (NJC) I love The Onion. I read it all the time. :) jan wrote: > > http://www.theonion.com/onion3727/garage_band.html ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 9 Aug 2001 21:06:43 -0400 (EDT) From: Catherine McKay Subject: Re: The PC Thing NJC - --- William T Miyasato wrote: > Greetings, Everyone! [...] Now if only you could go beyond these > "walls" and go global ...! > Make international calls for as low as $.04/minute > with Yahoo! Messenger > http://phonecard.yahoo.com/ Welcome, William - if you could stay through the Bjork debate, you a brave one, indeed. Reading your last line made me laugh - I guess you don't see this when you type but good old Yahoo throws on a tag line, which in this case, looks like it kind of belonged to your post! Get your free @yahoo.ca address at http://mail.yahoo.ca ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 09 Aug 2001 18:19:11 -0700 From: "Brenda J. Walker" Subject: Re: Black voices/white faces on record sleeves NJC Got a good one for you guys... Remember CeCe Peniston's album "Finally"? http://cdnow.com/switch/from=cr-9635397-1/target=buyweb_purchase/itemid=321002 Her image on the sleeve is cut off just above her nose so that people wouldn't be able to tell from her nose and lips that she is black. Brenda n.p.: NewsHour with Jim Lehrer Jason Maloney wrote: > AzeemAK@aol.com wrote: > > > > Ah, those were the days, when some very strange contortions were undertaken > > to prevent non-caucasian faces getting prominence. Anyone remember that > > record Mr DJ by The Concept? The DJ performing the monologue was black, the > > face on the sleeve of the single was... white! > > I do indeed remember it, I have the track on Streetsounds Volume 15 - > ah, those were the days! > > Jason. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 09 Aug 2001 18:40:18 -0700 From: "Brenda J. Walker" Subject: Re: Television & Consumerism (NJC) SCJoniGuy@aol.com wrote: > <> > > What do you mean "we", keemosabe? ;~) The proverbial "we" of course. According to Nielsen, the average U.S. household watches more than 50 HOURS of TV a week. Which places you well outside the norm Bob - but we already knew that! I don't have a problem with TV per se; I watch alot of news (and music now that I get Trio and Ovation). My problem is that alot of people probably know more about television than they do about our political system, their role in it and it's role in the world. The television is to me one of the primary symbols of U.S. consumerism - the stress of which is making us sick and the overabundance of which has made us fat. (Us as in the nation. :) My philosophy in short: Credit kills. (Funny because right now Michael Powell, Chairman of the FCC is on NewsHour talking about the preservation of television in the face of threats from cable, satellite, internet, etc.) > > Don't know, but I've got a nice collection of B-sides if you need something to tie you over! ;~) > Yeah, gotta get some blanks in the mail! Thanks! B ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 09 Aug 2001 19:23:56 -0700 From: "Brenda J. Walker" Subject: Re: why join 'em? politics, money & the media -long (NJC) hell wrote: > But I > usually video them while doing other things, then I can fast-forward through > the ads! > This is the very thing that has the networks here worried. The PVR's (personal video recorders such as TIVO, UltimateTV and Replay TV) have features which automatically skip commercials. B n.p.: CNN on Bush's address on Stem Cell Research ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 9 Aug 2001 19:58:48 -0700 From: "Mark or Travis" Subject: Re: Passion Play > <> > > This one's the biggest stretch of all for me...do you sincerely think she chose the words "Exxon" & "radiation" at random, or because they sounded good with Blue & Rose? So be it, I guess, but I think you really have to dig a bit more than that. This is one of my favorite Joni songs from one of my favorite albums. Part of the reason I love it is that I've never been able to completely figure out what she's trying to say. There seems to be a more than average amount of ambiguity about this one that makes it all the more fascinating to me. Unless I'm completely missing something here which is entirely possible. I agree with Bob that the choice of Exxon Blue and radiation rose is not random or without meaning. Both could be seen as references to environmental issues. I think this song was written some time but not a long time after the Exxon Valdez debacle. To me the two words she attaches to these colors have a negative and threatening connotation. By extension they could be seen as references to the large corporations, industries and governments that hold the reins of power in our modern world. The title of the song and the phrase 'enter the multitudes' makes the line sound like a stage direction. Blue & rose might be the colors of the costumes the multitudes are wearing or it might be the colors of the lights. Stage lights are usually gelled in shades of pink (or amber) and blue. I like the light interpretation. It calls up the image of the multitudes entering under blue neon lights coupled with the rose glow of radioactivity. A toxic mix, if ever there was one. Kind of fits in with the image of a sickened planet that she presents later in 'Slouching Toward Bethlehem' where she talks about the beast of the Apocalypse and hopes that the spirit of this world will 'heal and rise'. At any rate, I've always felt that by using the references to Exxon & radiation she's setting the story of Christ's Passion against a modern day backdrop in 'Passion Play'. But to me the line that is the most telling and in some ways the most cryptic is 'Who you gonna get to do the dirty work when all the slaves are free?' I can see at least two interpretations of this line, based on two points of view that she might be taking. If she's speaking as a true believer that Christ's vision of the world will truly come to pass on this earth, then she's asking this question of the world's power mongers. In a world of peace & love where all are treated equally with compassion and respect, how can you continue enslaving and exploiting the poor & downtrodden? Who's going to work in your sweat shops for next to nothing? Who's going to clean your toilets, cook your food and do your laundry for you in such a world? Who's going to care for you when you're old and infirm? Who's going to work in your mines, mow your lawns or haul away your garbage? On the other hand, maybe she's playing devil's advocate. Maybe she's asking Jesus how he expects a world so completely at odds with his philosophy to function if his teachings are truly followed. If you look at nature, the prime directive of it's myriad creations is survival. And the law of evolution is survival of the fittest. The teachings of Christ would seem to be incongruous with this. The concerns of survival, whether it be of an individual or a species, would seem to leave no room for compassion for those that are less than fit. Doesn't survival mean looking out for number one? Where is there provision for helping the sick or the infirm to survive in a dog eat dog world? And certainly providing the less than fit a good quality of life is completely out of the question. If you take apart the system of oppressor and oppressed - the whole pecking order of have and have-not, the food chain of modern civilization - the world will surely grind to a halt and everything will crumble into dust.... Kind of like 'Atlas Shrugged'. You may be right, Kakki! There may be some Ayn Rand in there! > Another point in this song is the pattern of the inserted words of the chorus: > > Ecstasy > Misery > Apathy > Tragedy > > Is it random? Why not repeat the same word each time? The lyrics to this song are so beautifully written. I love the line 'Magdalene is trembling like as washing on a line'. What a wonderful description! And those words Bob mentions sum up the mood of each verse so well. Magdalene's ectasy. The misery of the multitudes that the heart-healer seeks to relieve. The apathy that caused the stray to wander so far. The tragedy of the crucifixion. > > Like I say, I don't know any more than the next guy, but I DO enjoy talking about it! Neither do I but it's certainly obvious that I enjoy talking about it too. If anybody's still reading by now, thanks for your patience with my rambling. Mark in Seattle ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 10 Aug 2001 13:37:20 +1000 From: john low Subject: Re: Allman Bros and Phil Lesh and Friends(for all the dead heads in the room) (njc) alison wrote: >i absolutely loved reading this victor! i hope to >catch this show sometime this summer.i am surprised >that you had never seen the allmans before. they put >on a magical show, every time! and i loved your >description of birdsong. it gave me the chills. Me too, Victor! I enjoyed hearing about the concert immensely. I love the Dead (and also have a soft spot for the Allmans) though, of course, living down under I never got the chance to see them. Bird Song is one of my favourite Dead songs and it was a real pleasure to hear that Phil tinkered with the words in honour of Jerry. Thanks! John (in Sydney) PS. alison, I hope you'll write a brief report if you manage to catch the show too. __________________________________________________________________ Get your free Australian email account at http://www.start.com.au ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 9 Aug 2001 22:10:38 -0700 (PDT) From: Nuriel Tobias Subject: o superman "i saw an aging creeple selling superman baloons" - now is'nt that what cristopher reeve's doing these days? _____________________________________________________________ Free email, web pages, news, entertainment, weather and MORE! Check out -------------------------------> http://wowmail.com ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 10 Aug 2001 17:34:14 +1200 From: "hell" Subject: Re: why join 'em? politics, money & the media -long (NJC) Colin wrote: > How do ads work? Are people really so gullible? Do people really believe that soem > cream will knock 20 years off their face? Do people really believe that a car will > give them power/sex? I don't think it's so much about gullibility - although some people obviously are. I think this is more just about brand awareness. If you're looking to buy something you've never bought before, you're more likely to go with something you've heard of, that a completely unknown product. > i just bought a proper camera with different lenses etc. I bought by looking in a > shop at them and asking questions and sying what i wanted it to do. Obviously if you're buying an expensive product like a camera, then an intelligent person is going to do some background on it first. But if you're talking about a few dollars, then maybe that advertising "brain-washing" might just sink into the subconscious enough to influence your choice of product. Hell ____________________________ "To have great poets, there must be great audiences too." - Walt Whitman hell@ihug.co.nz Hell's Personal Photo Page: http://homepages.ihug.co.nz/~hell/main/personal.htm Visit the NBLs (Natural Born Losers) at: http://www.nbls.co.nz ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 9 Aug 2001 23:53:45 -0600 From: "shane mattison" Subject: Re: dylan said to joni yes it seems joni and bob have a pal kind of relationship sometimes, where each makes light of the others quirks and quarks...i like it...the king and queen are on good terms usually...and all is well in chelsea... shane - ----- Original Message ----- From: To: ; Sent: Thursday, August 09, 2001 6:29 PM Subject: Re: dylan said to joni > > > I was just reading an interview with Neil Diamond where Neil said he hung > out back stage with Dylan and Joni before the "Last Waltz" concert. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 10 Aug 2001 17:49:30 +1200 From: "hell" Subject: Re: Passion Play I haven't really sat down and thought much about the lyrics of this song in the past, but it's one I've never really understood, so have finally made the effort! My results (however misguided they may be) follow. I've deliberately ignored other people's interpretations, and just gone with my own feelings. I think this song is about the interactions of religion and technology. I've dissected the lyrics as follows: "Magdalene is trembling Like a washing on a line Trembling and gleaming Never before was a man so kind Never so redeeming" Mary Magdalene, one of the first "sinners", trembling with fear and relief, forgiven by Jesus, the great redeemer. She is gleaming with happiness, having been "washed clean" of her sins. This gives us our first reference to religion and Christianity. "Enter the multitudes In Exxon blue In radiation rose" The multitudes - Christianity started with one man (Jesus) and a handful of followers, now it numbers in the millions. Also now there are billions more people in the world, and technology has advanced exponentially as a result, with the discovery of nuclear power, etc. Exxon blue - blue is also a term for mistake, eg. the sinking of the Exxon Valdez. We've made several technological mistakes. Radiation rose - rose may refer to the lesions formed in radiation sickness, similar to the old nursery rhyme "Ring of Roses" referring to the pustules formed by bubonic plague - a symptom of our mistakes. "Now you tell me Who you gonna get to do the dirty work When all the slaves are free? (Who're you gonna get)" Who is left to take the blame for our technological blunders, if religion can "forgive us our sins"? "I am up a sycamore Looking through the leaves A sinner of some position Who in the world can this heart healer be This magical physician" I think these first three lines mean that although she is a non-believer and feels superior in her beliefs, she feels she is not seeing clearly, ie. her vision or perceptions are obscured (by the leaves). Then perhaps she's questioning the basis of Christianity, that a religion can be based on just one man's philosophies, and how could someone literally heal someone with the touch of a hand. Or perhaps as a more indirect concept, how can we magically be forgiven no matter what we do, and therefore have no need to accept any responsibility? "Enter the multitudes The walking wounded They come to this diver of the heart Of the multitudes Thy kingdom come Thy will be done" The walking wounded - the everyday sinners who come to Christianity to be forgiven their sins, in the knowledge that they will be redeemed and eventually go to the kingdom, ie. heaven, if God so wills it, despite their sins. "Oh, climb down, climb down he says to me From the middle of unrest" Come down from the sycamore tree, stop your questioning and see clearly. "They think his light is squandered But he sees a stray in the wilderness And I see how far I've wandered" The sceptics and non-believers don't understand how if Christianity or God has this power, why do mistakes like the sinking of the Exxon Valdez happen? But the basis of Christianity says that each individual is what is important, not the global actions of the "multitudes", and she realises how far from the truth her perceptions were. "Oh, all around the marketplace The buzzing of the flies The buzzing and the stinging Divinely barren And wickedly wise The killer nails are ringing" Perhaps an early reference to Ethiopia (before the song of the same name), or perhaps the spread of Aids in Africa via mosquitoes - the buzzing of the flies, the stinging and the killer nails. It seems to be a departure from the radiation theme, although "divinely barren" may refer to the sterilisation effect of radiation. Maybe technology is "wickedly wise" in making people in these countries sterile to off-set over-population? As for the changing lyric: "Ecstasy, Misery, Apathy, Tragedy" could this reference the history of the whole nuclear debate, or technology in general? Initially Ecstasy at the discovery of a new weapon, power source, etc. Misery after the bombing of Hiroshima and Nagasaki, as the implications are realised. Apathy as people think "well, we can't stop the big companies from using this technology, so why fight it?" Tragedy as the after-effects of Hiroshima, Chernobyl etc. are realised, sometimes many years later. This is probably the first time I've analysed any song in this much depth, and if you've waded through this far, congratulations, you deserve a medal! Hell _________________________________ "To have great poets, there must be great audiences too." - Walt Whitman hell@ihug.co.nz Hell's Personal Photo Page: http://homepages.ihug.co.nz/~hell/main/personal.htm Visit the NBLs (Natural Born Losers) at: http://www.nbls.co.nz ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 10 Aug 2001 18:05:05 +1200 From: "hell" Subject: Re: the url of chelsea Shane wrote: > the fantasmagizmotic url of chelsea: > > http://www.hotelchelsea.com/ The site states: "Joni Mitchell, musician Jazz influenced musician who rose from California folk rock scene to become a powerful pop musician in the 70s. She wrote the popular melancholy song "Chelsea Morning" while staying at the hotel." Chelsea Morning is melancholy? How the hell would they describe Blue or River then!? Maybe something like "wrist-slashingly depressing"! Hell ____________________________ "To have great poets, there must be great audiences too." - Walt Whitman hell@ihug.co.nz Hell's Personal Photo Page: http://homepages.ihug.co.nz/~hell/main/personal.htm Visit the NBLs (Natural Born Losers) at: http://www.nbls.co.nz ------------------------------ End of JMDL Digest V2001 #341 ***************************** ------- Post messages to the list by clicking here: mailto:joni@smoe.org Unsubscribe by clicking here: mailto:joni-digest-request@smoe.org?body=unsubscribe ------- Siquomb, isn't she?