From: les@jmdl.com (JMDL Digest) To: joni-digest@smoe.org Subject: JMDL Digest V2001 #336 Reply-To: joni@smoe.org Sender: les@jmdl.com Errors-To: les@jmdl.com Precedence: bulk Unsubscribe: mailto:joni-digest-request@smoe.org?body=unsubscribe Archives: http://www.smoe.org/lists/joni Websites: http://www.jmdl.com http://www.jonimitchell.com JMDL Digest Wednesday, August 8 2001 Volume 2001 : Number 336 The Official Joni Mitchell Homepage, created by Wally Breese, can be found at http://www.jonimitchell.com. It contains the latest news, a detailed bio, Original Interviews, essays, lyrics and much much more. The JMDL website can be found at http://www.jmdl.com and contains interviews, articles, the member gallery, archives, and much more. Information on the 4th "Annual" New England JoniFest: http://www.jmdl.com/jfne2001.cfm ========== TOPICS and authors in this Digest: -------- And put them in a tree museum ["shane mattison" ] Re: T. Waits "Foreign Affairs" NJC [Scott and Jody ] Re: Carey cover ["shane mattison" ] Re: T. Waits "Foreign Affairs" NJC [SCJoniGuy@aol.com] Subject: Re: Subject: Europe vs US On second thought NJC ["Kate Bennett" ] Re: Carey cover [SCJoniGuy@aol.com] Re: And put them in a tree museum ["Kakki" ] Re: And put them in a tree museum [Randy Remote ] Re: If you can't beat 'em - join 'em (NJC) [colin ] Re: Subject: Re: Subject: Europe vs US On second thought NJC [colin ] Re: Subject: Re: Subject: Europe vs US On second thought NJC ["Kakki" ] Re: T. Waits "Foreign Affairs" NJC [slarty ] Subject: Re: why join 'em? politics, money & the media - long (NJC) ["Kat] We need your help! [Lazyasz@aol.com] RE: Subject: Re: Subject: Europe vs US On second thought NJC [MDESTE1@aol] RE: Subject: Re: Subject: Europe vs US On second thought NJC ["Kate Benne] Re: Subject: Re: Subject: Europe vs US On second thought NJC [colin ] Joni's rhymes ["kerry" ] If you can't beat 'em - join 'em (NJC) ["Martin Giles" ] Hattie Mcdaniel(NJC) [Relayer211@aol.com] Re: why join 'em? politics, money & the media - long (NJC) ["Brenda J. Wa] Re: Joni's rhymes - Almost Famous ["Suze Cameron" ] Re: Hattie Mcdaniel(NJC) ["Suze Cameron" ] Re: Hattie Mcdaniel(NJC) [Murphycopy@aol.com] Re: Hattie Mcdaniel(NJC) [Relayer211@aol.com] Re: Hattie Mcdaniel(NJC) ["Suze Cameron" ] Allman Bros and Phil Lesh and Friends(for all the dead heads in the room) (njc) ["Victor Johnson" Subject: And put them in a tree museum They took all the trees And put them in a tree museum And they charged all the people A dollar and a half just to see 'em we already knew about honolulu's royal hawaiian hotel being the pink hotel in joni's song Big Yellow Taxi... the news is that dave donelly, reporter for honolulu's Star-Bulletin, inform's us that: <<"Big Yellow Taxi," by the way, was written about Hawaii and the "tree museum" she sang about where they charged you to see the trees was Foster Garden ...>> new fees to see the trees?: Admission $5.00 - General, 13 years and older $3.00 - Resident of Hawaii, 13 years and older with ID $1.00 - Child, 6 to 12 years old FREE - Child, 5 years old and under (must be with adult) $25.00 - Annual family pass (May be used at Foster Botanical Garden and the Honolulu Zoo.) its gone up to 5 bucks just to see 'em, but yippy eye eh, you can see 'em for free at: oh boy aerial view: http://www.co.honolulu.hi.us/parks/facility/foster/fbgaeria.htm oh boy close ups: http://members.nbci.com/mblais/fosterbg.htm and jus' like joni said, they got "plans": oh boy master plan: http://www.co.honolulu.hi.us/parks/facility/foster/index.htm and as thomas merton pointed out, the first planted tree was only significant because it was planted by the mayor's daughter... shane ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 07 Aug 2001 13:52:31 -0500 From: Scott and Jody Subject: Re: T. Waits "Foreign Affairs" NJC I was just watching a T.W. video the other day and Tom was playing "I Never Talk To Strangers" from FA. It's a live recording without Bette Midler. It didn't have the same impact. I guess I've just been accustomed to Bette singing, "Your life's a dime store novel. This town is full of guys like you and you're looking for someone to take the place of her." _Tom: "You must be reading my mail"... One of my favorite images from Jack and Neal is: Jack was out of cigarettesssss as we crossed the yellow line. The gas pumps looked like tombstones from here. Felt lonelier than a parking lot when the last car pulls away. And the moonlight dressed the double breasted foothills in the mirror, weaving out a negligee and a black brassiere. > "Potter's Field" from FA is Tom Waits' 'Paprika Plains', I think... > > My car just broke down so I have to walk to the post office. I'll have to listen to these two songs side by side on my way there. Hmmmm- interesting. jody ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 7 Aug 2001 14:05:32 -0500 From: "Michael Paz" Subject: Yes Show in Boston (NJC) To All Topsfield Bound and area listers: I have found out that the premium seats for the Yes show in Boston will cost us $37.50 each. I am gonna make the arrangements with my credit card to purchase these seats for everyone who is interested in going and then we can settle up there in Boston. I would like to finish these arrangements by Monday August 13. Please respond to me at my jmichaelpaz@telocity.com address if you are still interested in this show. It is an 8pm show time and we should be back in Ashara's arms by 11pm. Later Paz NP-Come In From The Cold-JM ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 7 Aug 2001 13:24:23 -0600 From: "shane mattison" Subject: Re: Carey cover its there bob... go to "scrapbook", then "video" that's where i snagged it for the bottom of my post...and here again... eileen's clip that hit: http://waycoolproductions.net/bjc/eileenmovie1.html eileen's real audio clip of carey (1): http://www.eileenlaverty.com/sets/sc_book/video/EL4.MPG eileen's real audio clip of carey (seg 2): http://www.eileenlaverty.com/sets/sc_book/video/EL3.MPG eileen's homepage: http://www.eileenlaverty.com/ good luck, guy shane - ----- Original Message ----- From: To: Cc: Sent: Tuesday, August 07, 2001 11:54 AM Subject: Carey cover > < Angels, complete with cover of joni's song Carey...>> > > Shane, > > I hit her website and it doesn't look to me that there's a cover of Carey there...if I'm mistaken, please tell me. > > Bob ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 07 Aug 2001 15:18:21 EDT From: SCJoniGuy@aol.com Subject: Re: T. Waits "Foreign Affairs" NJC <> I use this expression all the time, as well as: "I'm a nice guy, once you get to know me..." from the same song. <> "Just then Florence Nightingale stuck her fat ass halfway out the window, Neal swerved and nearly missed a truck..." Yep, I'll have to spin FA this evening! ;~) Bob NP: Steppenwolf, "Ride With Me" ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 7 Aug 2001 12:04:48 -0700 From: "Kate Bennett" Subject: Subject: Re: Subject: Europe vs US On second thought NJC These things that Marian mentioned make me realize once again that our country, is far less civilized than other countries. I cannot imagine what a world of six weeks of paid leave is like. In the world where I worked things would supposedly have gone to hell in a hand basket with that kind of extravagant benefit! When I was employed (as a highly successful fundraiser being paid far less than the man who originally had my position yet raised a small percentage of what I accomplished thank you very much) I was given such a hard time about taking my EARNED vacation days & when I used a weeks worth of sick days as bereavement to take care of the memorial service & other matters following my mother's death there was hell to pay when I returned (after the cards & words of condolences were over). Taking an hour off early once a week to see a chiropractor because of severe neck pain following a high stress period was also cause for admonishment although it was supposed to be okay. The fact that I had accumulated months of sick leave that I never used didn't count. You were given sick time but you were never supposed to actually use it!!!!!!! I got to my dying mother's bedside barely in time because I had to go into the office first to take care of things so that things wouldn't fall apart because I had no assistant (why pay 2 people to do the work of one overworked employee). I count my blessings everyday because I was able to walk away from the job with their belated respect & when they asked what they could do to change my mind I said "not a thing". Oh happy happy day. Don't get me started on the many times I had to choose between my child & my job if I was to receive a much needed & I might add well deserved promotion (which ended up being a minimal as they could justify) or the times I was told (in a previous job) that I should just find someone else to take care of my sick child & come into work. Wow, I guess I am not over this yet am I? LOL. I know not all employers are like this but I suspect there are a good many people out there who share my experience which I attribute to the depersonalized nature of our country's business first attitude. It manifests in so many ways, most of all in the lives of our children who pay the price for all of this. I know a teacher who just quit her job because she couldn't take it anymore. She was probably one of the greatest teachers but she was forced to work under a public educational system that was all about testing & achievement and not about learning. She loved her students but just could not take it anymore. She talked about kindergarten children with ulcers due to school stress. I don't blame you for not wanting to raise your children here Marian. There was a time (my son's junior high school through high school years) when I dreamed of escaping with him to a place where I didn't have to work so hard for so little, where the family was valued, the teachers were happy & inspired (some were many were not) & there were no drugs or guns. I just wasn't sure where that place existed. Those were scary times... even here in beautiful Santa Barbara there are gangs & shootings sometimes unreported because its not so good for tourism I guess. I love my town & I love my country especially for the natural beauty & open spaces that still exist but I do not love our national culture of violence & the disrespect for our precious environment (on a national policy level). I would gladly give up the great shopping hours for gun control & mandatory recycling, etc! Wow what a rant...what in the world did I have for breakfast... Marian wrote: "There are a lot of nice things about living here, not the least of which is six working weeks of paid leave every year, four months of paid maternity leave for working expectant mothers and up to two years of unpaid leave for either parent after the birth of the child, national health care, no homeless people, gun control, mandatory national recycling of *everything* (plastic, paper, glass, metal, oil, biological waste), great coffee and unbelievable chocolate. I really miss my family in the USA and I always enjoy my trips home - the people are very open and friendly in the USA, the shopping hours are great - but somehow I always feel glad to get back here to Austria. I sometimes fantasize moving back to the USA, but I worry about bringing up my children there - the schools seem like dangerous places with gangs and guns and I have concerns about the safety of the environment and the food. Especially now with the republicans in power, I feel like everything that I care about is quickly going to hell." ******************************************** Kate Bennett www.katebennett.com sponsored by Polysonics www.polysonics.com Discover the Indies at Taylor Guitars: http://www.taylorguitars.com/artists/awp/indies/bennett.html ******************************************** ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 07 Aug 2001 15:35:34 EDT From: SCJoniGuy@aol.com Subject: Re: Carey cover I DID see those clips, but I don't see where a complete version of her cover is available...and it doesn't look like it's on her record... Maybe I'll send her an e-mail and turn on the ol' southern charm! ;~) Bob NP: Steppenwolf, "Jupiter's Child" ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 7 Aug 2001 12:23:48 -0700 From: "Kakki" Subject: Re: And put them in a tree museum Shane, All these new details are great! I think you have become our official "Western Canada Joni Mitchell Reference Desk!" ;-) I hope your contributions are being added to the JMDL "Lyric Glossary" database. Kakki > <<"Big Yellow Taxi," by the way, was written about Hawaii and the "tree > museum" she sang about where they charged you to see the trees was Foster > Garden ...>> ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 07 Aug 2001 13:05:50 -0700 From: Randy Remote Subject: Re: And put them in a tree museum Shane, you just keep coming up with this cool stuff! You get the jonisleuth award! shane mattison wrote: > They took all the trees > And put them in a tree museum > And they charged all the people > A dollar and a half just to see 'em > > we already knew about honolulu's royal hawaiian hotel being the pink hotel in > joni's song Big Yellow Taxi... > the news is that dave donelly, reporter for honolulu's Star-Bulletin, inform's > us that: > <<"Big Yellow Taxi," by the way, was written about Hawaii and the "tree > museum" she sang about where they charged you to see the trees was Foster > Garden ...>> > new fees to see the trees?: > Admission > $5.00 - General, 13 years and older > $3.00 - Resident of Hawaii, 13 years and older with ID > $1.00 - Child, 6 to 12 years old > FREE - Child, 5 years old and under (must be with adult) > $25.00 - Annual family pass > (May be used at Foster Botanical Garden and the Honolulu Zoo.) > > its gone up to 5 bucks just to see 'em, but yippy eye eh, you can see 'em for > free at: > oh boy aerial view: > http://www.co.honolulu.hi.us/parks/facility/foster/fbgaeria.htm > oh boy close ups: > http://members.nbci.com/mblais/fosterbg.htm > and jus' like joni said, they got "plans": > oh boy master plan: > http://www.co.honolulu.hi.us/parks/facility/foster/index.htm > and as thomas merton pointed out, the first planted tree was only significant > because it was planted by the mayor's daughter... > > shane ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 07 Aug 2001 21:20:29 +0100 From: colin Subject: Re: If you can't beat 'em - join 'em (NJC) Wouldn't asbestos be better? Just don't breathe any in! (I wonder if all those asbestos mats we used in science class at school have ......) Suze Cameron wrote: > On Tue, 07 Aug 2001 18:20:49 > colin wrote: > >You will burn i Hell for this, Sue. you wicked woman you! > > Colin, please to send me some spf 250 > sunscreen, I have a feeling I'll be > needing it when Marcel reads my post > > thisisajokethisisajokeIloveyouMarcel:-) > > Sue (ducking and running!!!) > > n.p. Raise a little Hell > > Get 250 color business cards for FREE! > http://businesscards.lycos.com/vp/fastpath/ - -- bw colin DAK,BRO GC, 950i 940,860,864, 260, 890,Silver 830 and 270, Passap 6000 Duo80 colin@tantra-apso.com http://www.tantra-apso.com ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 07 Aug 2001 21:22:08 +0100 From: colin Subject: Re: Subject: Re: Subject: Europe vs US On second thought NJC John gets 6 weeks paid leave. 4 weeks is standard, i think. I am surpised to hear this is not standard in the USA. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 7 Aug 2001 12:46:44 -0700 From: "Kakki" Subject: Tom Waits (minimal jc) Just as I've always thought Van Morrison was the Irish male Joni, I thought Waits was the New York street character-walking-with-a-bottle-of-Jack-Daniels Joni. I found this link of Tom quotes and was surprised that so many of these originated with him ~ http://www.intercom.net/local/shore_journal/yas11015.html ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 7 Aug 2001 12:49:08 -0700 From: "Kakki" Subject: Re: Subject: Re: Subject: Europe vs US On second thought NJC > John gets 6 weeks paid leave. 4 weeks is standard, i think. I am surpised to > hear this is not standard in the USA. Most companies here give people four weeks after a few years (usually 5) employment. Law firms here are surprisingly generous - many give 3-4 weeks the first year you start. Of course they keep you so busy you can rarely or never take all the days at one stretch. ;-( Kakki ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 07 Aug 2001 16:26:20 EDT From: SCJoniGuy@aol.com Subject: Re: Tom Waits (minimal jc) <> What a great list, Kakki...thanks for sending the URL along! And there's twice as many that didn't make the list, much like our "favorite Joni lyrics" thread...just goes on and on. Bob NPIMH: "Never could stand that dog..." ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 7 Aug 2001 13:28:22 -0700 From: "Kate Bennett" Subject: RE: Subject: Re: Subject: Europe vs US On second thought NJC I thought of you Kakki when writing my post...knowing how hard you work...yes 3 to 4 weeks at the start does seem generous by US standards but probably not so generous by Colin's & Marian's standards... I know when I took that extravagant 3 weeks vacation after 5 years of dedicated service, (admonished that never again would I be allowed to take it all at once unless I really really needed it to which I replied I really really neeeded it) I was totally renewed to jump into my job once again with energy & enthusisam...any less time than that would not have been enough time in getting away from it all.... I do admit to taking 4 days of sick days in a row once when I was perfectly physically healthy once when I just couldn't take it anymore at the office (however it was a convenient time for me to do so in between deadlines) & I felt no guilt at all, instead a great deal of empowerment that I was doing something for me rather than putting my work first...I stayed home hiding out like a hermit & loved every second of it...of course there were plenty of days I went to work sick as could be because there was no one but me to do the work.... Colin said > John gets 6 weeks paid leave. 4 weeks is standard, i think. I am surpised to hear this is not standard in the USA.< Kakki said > Most companies here give people four weeks after a few years (usually 5) employment. Law firms here are surprisingly generous - many give 3-4 weeks the first year you start. Of course they keep you so busy you can rarely or never take all the days at one stretch. ;-( < ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 7 Aug 2001 16:49:57 EDT From: Lazyasz@aol.com Subject: Joni, bjork, Walden Woods Does anyone know of the existence of any kind of recording of this event. Particularly of Bjork and Joni duetting. I have the Stormy Weather CD itself but that one has no duets. I was wondering if you guys had any info? Thanks ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 7 Aug 2001 17:11:26 -0400 From: "Stephen Epstein" Subject: Europe vs. US NJC Kakki wrote: "> John gets 6 weeks paid leave. 4 weeks is standard, i think. I am surpised to > hear this is not standard in the USA. Most companies here give people four weeks after a few years (usually 5) employment." Well, in Canada, standard is only 2 weeks paid vacation. After three years, and additional week is given. It sucks! Europe is so much more civilized in the manner they treat employees. Best Stephen in Vancouver NP: Oregon- Always, Never and Forever ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 07 Aug 2001 17:15:48 -0400 From: slarty Subject: Re: T. Waits "Foreign Affairs" NJC I don't want to totally hog the bandwidth here so I'll keep it as brief as I can. I'll stick to The album Foreign Affairs as I do have that in front of me. To really paraphrase it every song on the CD is about: Whisky Bars Cars cigarettes cards drinkin cops dope guns Etc,etc. Some of the words he uses and his style: sittin' braggin' pourin' didya tell 'em witcha couldn't hep myself Etc,etc. Then there's Foreign Affair When travelling abroad in the continental style It's my belief one must attempt to be discreet And subsequently bear in mind your transient position Allows you a perspective that's unique And though you'll find your itinerary's a blessing and a curse Your wanderlust won't let you settle down And you'll wonder how you ever fathomed that you'd be content To stay within the city limits of a small midwestern town Most vagabonds I knowed don't ever want to find the culprit That remains the object of their long relentless quest The obsession's in the chasing and not the apprehending The pursuit you see and never the arrest Without fear of contradiction bon voyage is always hollered In conjunction with a handkerchief from shore By a girl who drives a rambler and furthermore Is overly concerned that she won't see him anymore Planes and trains and boats and buses Characteristically evoke a common attitude of blue Unless you have a suitcase and a ticket and a passport And the cargo that they're carrying is you A foreign affair juxtaposed with a stateside And domestically approved romantic fancy Is mysteriously attractive due to circumstances knowing It will only be parlayed into a memory Besides being much deeper than anything else on the CD Here are such words as: juxtaposed apprehending transient Characteristically Etc.etc That's why I'm curious about some of his other CD's. Ken SCJoniGuy@aol.com wrote: > <> > > I would never have thought that, Ken...can you be more specific as to which lyrics you're referring to? Or just the general tone of the album? > > FA is brilliant, and very similar in my mind to Blue Valentine & Heartattack & Vine, which came out around the same general period. > > "Potter's Field" from FA is Tom Waits' 'Paprika Plains', I think... > > Jack & Neal/California, Here I Come is CLASSIC Waits. NOBODY else could have written it. Same goes for most of the songs on it, I would say. > > And, also like Blue Valentine, it features Rickie Lee Jones on the cover! > > Bob, always up for a TW thread! > > NP: Steely Dan, "Cousin Dupree" 6/3/00 ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 7 Aug 2001 14:17:09 -0700 From: "Kate Bennett" Subject: Subject: Re: why join 'em? politics, money & the media - long (NJC) Brenda I agree with the majority of what you wrote. Especially concernign PACs, the media & the lack of women in politics. It deserves reposting. Brenda wrote: "We don't live in a democracy; we live in a republic. And the real groups controlling the republic (and the media for that matter) - political action committees (PAC's) and wealthy givers are doing so from both sides of the aisle and they don't want things to change." "The media in our country sucks for the most part. We have been dumbed down by USA Today type summary style reporting and sound bytes. Very few outlets are impartial...We are effected by media language in more ways than we may realize - not only does it feed our prejudices but it also feeds our arrogant, U.S.-centric ignorance." "Take a good look at our Congress. Women are the majority in our country, yet there only 13 women in the 100 member Senate and only 61 women in the 435 member House. Our country is controlled by older white men of European ancestry (in both parties) - even though that is just one view." ******************************************** Kate Bennett www.katebennett.com sponsored by Polysonics www.polysonics.com Discover the Indies at Taylor Guitars: http://www.taylorguitars.com/artists/awp/indies/bennett.html ******************************************** ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 7 Aug 2001 17:41:48 EDT From: Lazyasz@aol.com Subject: We need your help! Over at atforumz.com there is a grassroots effort to establish a Joni forum. This site already has forumz dedicated to artists like Kate Bush, Fiona Apple, Radiohead, and Tool. Just type in www.atforumz.com and scroll down a little to click on the Suggestions forum. Then click on the topic "A Joni Mitchell Forum". We need as many postive votes (i.e. 'yes I would post there frequently/yes I would visit occasionally) as possible. Tell your friends and neighbors, atforumz.com has a highly intelligent, literate, and patient community of music lovers who should be exposed to Joni. Thank you for your time. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 07 Aug 2001 17:46:16 EDT From: MDESTE1@aol.com Subject: RE: Subject: Re: Subject: Europe vs US On second thought NJC I think I went 9 years without more than a three day weekend. Had one week three days in 1990. One week in 1996. 5 days in New orleans. adeea adeea adeea Thats all folks. Of course I love working. marcel ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 7 Aug 2001 14:37:22 -0700 From: "Kate Bennett" Subject: RE: Subject: Re: Subject: Europe vs US On second thought NJC i had a stretch similar to yours marcel before i had a child & yes, the key is if you love what you do then it really isn't working! ...although i do think no matter how much you love what you do it is healthy to get away all together... it became more of an issue when i had family obligations... ******************************************** Kate Bennett www.katebennett.com sponsored by Polysonics www.polysonics.com Discover the Indies at Taylor Guitars: http://www.taylorguitars.com/artists/awp/indies/bennett.html ******************************************** ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 08 Aug 2001 00:08:59 +0100 From: colin Subject: Re: Subject: Re: Subject: Europe vs US On second thought NJC > it became more of an issue when i had family obligations... lets hope that people who work work work don't have children or a partner. There is now way either a child or a partner will get what they need and deserve in this situation. Workaholism destroys just as surely as alchoholism. > > > ******************************************** > Kate Bennett > www.katebennett.com > sponsored by Polysonics www.polysonics.com > Discover the Indies at Taylor Guitars: > http://www.taylorguitars.com/artists/awp/indies/bennett.html > ******************************************** - -- bw colin DAK,BRO GC, 950i 940,860,864, 260, 890,Silver 830 and 270, Passap 6000 Duo80 colin@tantra-apso.com http://www.tantra-apso.com ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 07 Aug 2001 16:12:46 -0700 From: "Brenda J. Walker" Subject: Re: Subject: Europe vs US On second thought NJC Randy Remote wrote: > The coverage here by the TV news referred to 'skirmishes' > between police and violent protesters. It's like the Gulf War- > they had media blackouts and 'controlled' reporting pools- > most Americans are to this day unaware that we killed 100,00 > Iraqi civilians with our 'smart' bombs. > This Orwellian control of information is what scares me. > RR It should scare all of us. Brenda n.p. - Discovery Channel - Great Chefs ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 7 Aug 2001 20:27:11 -0300 From: "Wally Kairuz" Subject: RE: T. Waits "Foreign Affairs" NJC totally from a songwriter's point of you: FA sounds like a poem that was later set to music. i think that most of the SAT words here are used rather [and maybe intentionally] awkwardly and verbosely, as if the character in the song had heard them from the ''cultured'' and were trying to sound ''elegant'', like a bum trying to pass for a gentleman, if you know what i mean. maybe TW did write FA -- as a character study of sorts. wallyK, np: ''infected'' by the the [this a day completely devoted to the 80's] - -----Mensaje original----- De: owner-joni@jmdl.com [mailto:owner-joni@jmdl.com]En nombre de slarty Enviado el: Martes, 07 de Agosto de 2001 06:16 p.m. Para: joni@smoe.org Asunto: Re: T. Waits "Foreign Affairs" NJC Besides being much deeper than anything else on the CD Here are such words as: juxtaposed apprehending transient Characteristically Etc.etc That's why I'm curious about some of his other CD's. Ken ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 7 Aug 2001 16:13:33 -0700 From: "Kakki" Subject: Re: Subject: Re: why join 'em? politics, money & the media - long (NJC) For some reason, I didn't get this post of Brenda's until Kate replied to it. I also agree with Brenda 1000%. My personal belief is one of the ways to improve our lot is to remember the US system is suppose to be "by the people, for the people." We've lost our individual spirit and spunk and that is why we schlep numbly along letting ourselves be led by a small few. I wish Americans would go back to college after a few years out in the world working and taking refresher courses in American Government, Political Science and Economics. Even though many of us are taught these subjects growing up, I guarantee one will be much more enlightened learning them as an adult. I did this in my 30s to prepare to take law courses and I walked away thinking I hadn't known shit in all the preceding years. Kakki > Brenda wrote: > > "We don't live in a democracy; we live in a republic. And the real groups > controlling the republic (and the media for that matter) - political action > committees (PAC's) and wealthy givers are doing so from both sides of the > aisle and they don't want things to change." > > "The media in our country sucks for the most part. We have been dumbed down > by USA Today type summary style reporting and sound bytes. Very few outlets > are impartial...We are effected by media language in more ways than we may > realize - not only does it feed our > prejudices but it also feeds our arrogant, U.S.-centric ignorance." > > "Take a good look at our Congress. Women are the majority in our country, > yet there only 13 women in the 100 member Senate and only 61 women in the > 435 member House. Our country is controlled by older white men of European > ancestry (in both parties) - even though that is just one view." > ******************************************** > Kate Bennett > www.katebennett.com > sponsored by Polysonics www.polysonics.com > Discover the Indies at Taylor Guitars: > http://www.taylorguitars.com/artists/awp/indies/bennett.html > ******************************************** ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 7 Aug 2001 16:54:31 -0700 (PDT) From: Tyler Hewitt Subject: re: tom waits NJC Tom Waits is one of my all-time favorite songwriters (my other favorites being Joni and Andy Partridge). Almost everything he's written is suburb, and even the occasional clunkers are better than the vast majority of what gets passed off as a 'song' nowadays. God, I sound like a grumpy old man! Bob wrote: NP: Tom Waits, "Muriel" I had to chuckle when I remembered reading that the song was written about a cigar. (Remember Edie Adams doing their TV COMMERCIALS?) It's from my favorite Tom Waits album, "Foreign Affairs" which was recorded directly to 2-track with a full symphony orchestra. You can hear on a few tracks where the horn section is a little aggressive on the attack and blasts the sound engineers out (no level remixes allowed). Joe Jackson tried a similar trick a few years later with "Body and Soul." The Waits record also has probably MY FAVORITE SONG OF ALL TIME (to date), BY ANY WRITER: "Burma Shave." The first line: "Licorice tattoo turned a gunmetal blue, scrawled across the shoulders of a dying town." and later, "With her knees up on the glove compartment, she took out her barrettes, and her hair spilled out like root beer and she popped her gum and arched her back. JUST PHENOMENAL. Seek it out, folks it's worth it. CC Make international calls for as low as $.04/minute with Yahoo! Messenger http://phonecard.yahoo.com/ ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 7 Aug 2001 19:31:31 -0500 From: "kerry" Subject: Joni's rhymes Bob wrote: >>It's all those things; it's the way she can take a lyric like the one I quoted from "Song For Sharon", and in the midst of describing her own experiences, throw in a line or 2 that makes it universal. There are lines that ONLY SHE could have written, just like only Steely Dan could have written: >>"I crawl like a viper through these suburban streets, >>Make love to these women, languid & bittersweet"...has anyone else ever used the word "languid" in a rock and roll song? I always felt this way about Joni's use of "incendiary" in Come In From The Cold. How many times do you hear THAT word in a song? Kerry ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 8 Aug 2001 01:31:46 +0800 From: "Martin Giles" Subject: If you can't beat 'em - join 'em (NJC) Hi Sue Oh, you're good. You're very, very good. LMAO at your post. Just waiting for the hilarious responses now! Martin. (Lurking) In London. Sue regaled us with....... Rules for being a good Republican: 1.You have to believe that the nation's past 8 year prosperity was due to the work of Ronald Reagan and George Bush, but that yesterday's gas prices are all Bill Clinton's fault. 2.You have to despise government programs, but expect Social Security checks on time. 3.You have to believe that government should stay out of peoples' lives, yet you want government to regulate same-sex marriages, ending or not ending pregnancies, and what official language should be spoken by US citizens. 4.You have to believe that pollution is okay, so long as it makes a profit. It is even better if it's in another state. 5.You have to sponsor prayer in public schools, as long as you don't pray to Allah or Buddha. 6.You have to believe that only your own teenagers are still virgins. 7.You have to believe that a woman cannot be trusted with decisions about her own body, but that large, multinational corporations should have absolutely no regulations or interference. 8.You love Jesus and Jesus loves you and you're certain that Jesus shares your hatred of AIDS victims, homosexuals, labor unions and Hillary Clinton. 9.You have to believe that society is colorblind and growing up black in America doesn't diminish your opportunities-but you still wouldn't ever vote for Allan Keyes. 10.You have to believe that it was wise to allow Ken Starr to spend $50 million to attack Clinton because no other US Presidents have ever been unfaithful to their wives. 11.You have to declare that a waiting period for purchasing a handgun is bad because quick access to a new firearm is an important concern for all Americans-even children and felons. 12.You have to believe it is wise to keep condoms out of schools because, of course, if teenagers don't have condoms they won't have sex. 13.You have to believe that the ACLU is bad for defending the Constitution, while the NRA is good for defending the Constitution. 14.You have to believe the AIDS virus is not important enough to deserve federal funding proportionate to the resulting death rate and that the public doesn't need to be educated about it, because if we just ignore it, it will go away. 15.You have to believe that biology teachers are corrupting the morals of 6th graders if they teach them the basics of human sexuality, but the Bible, which is full of sex and violence, is good reading at any age. 16.You have to believe that Chinese communist missiles have killed more Americans than drugs, alcohol and tobacco. 17.You have to believe that, even though governments have supported the arts for 5,000 years and that most of the great works of Renaissance art were paid for by governments, our government should shun any such support. After all, the rich can afford to buy their own and the poor don't need any. 18.You have to believe that the lumber from the last one percent of old growth US forests is well worth the destruction of those forests and the extinction of the several species of plants and animals therein. 19.You have to believe that we should forgive and pray for Newt Gingrich, Henry Hyde, and Bob Livingston for their marital infidelities, but that the bastard Bill Clinton should never be forgiven. 20.You have to believe that George W. Bush REALLY won the election of November 2000. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 7 Aug 2001 18:21:20 -0700 From: "Mark or Travis" Subject: Re: why join 'em? politics, money & the media - long (NJC) > (Here's another problem I have with the media - ever watch the weekend pundit shows? How often > do you see women on those shows? Better still have you ever seen an Asian congressperson on Meet > the Press?) > Weekend pundit shows make me crazy. Cokey Roberts is the only woman I can think of, Brenda, who appears regularly. And she's just as smug, full of herself and waspish as the men are so what difference does it make what sex she is? I really can't think of any reason why I should let these people tell me what I should think. > Think about how exciting it could be if instead of challenging each other over our differences, > we challenged the media and the politicians in support of our common goals. Wouldn't that be something? I know I said I don't see the point of political discussion and the info Brenda has written in this post is part of the reason why. I've suspected for a long time that what you've written here about political power, the narrowing difference between the parties and the faulty info given out by the media is true, Brenda. It discourages me a great deal because I don't know what to believe or where to go to try & figure it out. I didn't really care much for either candidate in the last presidential election but couldn't see a reasonable alternative outside of refraining from voting at all. Couldn't in all good conscience do that either. Mark in Seattle np: Rickie Lee Jones 'Rebel Rebel' from 'Traffic From Paradise', my most recent cd purchase ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 7 Aug 2001 18:47:46 -0700 From: "Mark or Travis" Subject: Re: Subject: Re: Subject: Europe vs US On second thought NJC > Most companies here give people four weeks after a few years (usually 5) > employment. Gee, I'd like to work for one of those, Kakki! I got 3 weeks after 5 years. 4 weeks doesn't come until 15 years of service and at 20 years you max out at 5 weeks. Mark in Seattle ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 07 Aug 2001 18:58:17 -0700 From: "Brenda J. Walker" Subject: Re: Subject: Re: why join 'em? politics, money & the media -long (NJC) Kakki wrote: > I wish Americans would go back to college after a few years out in the world > working and taking refresher courses in American Government, Political > Science and Economics. Even though many of us are taught these subjects > growing up, I guarantee one will be much more enlightened learning them as > an adult. I did this in my 30s to prepare to take law courses and I walked > away thinking I hadn't known shit in all the preceding years. Kakki > I could not agree more. Sometimes I feel that as a nation we require so little of ourselves intellectually once outside the workplace. We make TV's the centerpieces of our rooms and bitch about being in the rat race in order to buy bigger and bigger TV's with dynamic surround sound for movies, sports and Survivor. Consumerism consumes our nation and our time. Credit is killing us. I firmly believe that until we re-prioritize ourselves as a body of people to be, at the very least, citizens before we are consumers, we will be stuck with our political lot. Brenda n.p.: Beth Orton - "Best Bit" (Anyone know what's up with a new record from her?) ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 07 Aug 2001 22:04:58 -0400 From: Emily Kirk Gray Subject: Re: Chapter Three I'm in Virginia for a very HOT visit with family; I will put the chapter in the mail to you when I'm back in New York on Friday! Hope you're staying cool -- - -- Emily - ----- Original Message ----- From: les@jmdl.com (JMDL Digest) Date: Sunday, August 5, 2001 3:00 am Subject: JMDL Digest V2001 #331 > I'm sure that I could, in theory, open your attachment, but given > the > stresses of moving, detaching computers, changing e-mail > addresses, > phone numbers, citizenship (whatever!), I wonder if you couldn't > just > send me a copy by snail mail. Try this address: Department of > Comparative Literature, Princeton University, 91 Prospect Avenue, > Princeton 08544. Many thanks for your indulgence. > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Emily Kirk Gray" > Date: Monday, July 30, 2001 4:32 pm > Subject: Chapter Three > > > > > > > Hi Professor Barkan: Thanks for your nice email. I'm attaching > > my third chapter, the one on AYLI and 12thN. > > > > This one took a long time to write, because I was dealing with > > two plays and because I feel that this is an important chapter, > > overall, for the thesis. So I'm extra interested to see what > > you think. I've been inside this one for so long that I have > > a hard time getting some perspective on it. > > > > Some of the usual excuses, deflections: I was thinking over the > > weekend that some of my "bigger" statements in this chapter > > (i.e. about comedy, about what AYLI/12thN. do) are not as > > fully realized or explained as I want them to be. Also I do > > a lot of talking about the reason for and use of theories > > like New Historicism and psychological theory and then don't > > really apply them -- I plan to. And finally, I'm afraid > > there's probably a touch of that annoying "self-congratulatory" > > tone in here, where I act all faux "surprised" to discover sibling > > rhetoric. I don't like that either, and I plan to mute it down > > later, rest assured. (I think it helps me during the drafting > > stages, though, to make some big pronouncements--to myself!-- > > about what I need to do.) > > > > OK, that's just so you know I know there's a lot of revising > > still to come. On a positive note, there are some things > > about this chapter that I really like! And I think my close > > readings are strong. > > > > Thank you, as always, for your help and criticism. Have > > a super August! > > > > -- Emily ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 7 Aug 2001 22:12:57 EDT From: Relayer211@aol.com Subject: Hattie Mcdaniel(NJC) There is a a very interesting show now on AMC about Hattie Mcdaniel who played Mammy in "Gone with the Wind." ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 07 Aug 2001 19:40:15 -0700 From: "Brenda J. Walker" Subject: Re: why join 'em? politics, money & the media - long (NJC) Mark or Travis wrote: > > Weekend pundit shows make me crazy. Cokey Roberts is the only woman I > can think of, Brenda, who appears regularly. And she's just as smug, > full of herself and waspish as the men are so what difference does it > make what sex she is? I really can't think of any reason why I should > let these people tell me what I should think. I find the McLaughlin Group somewhat interesting because they at least have opposing views represented. (I do hate when they shout down Eleanor Clift.) The only advantage I see to some of the other shows is that they represent one of the few chances to see politicians indirectly answer direct questions on network television. (Cokey bugs me too.) > It discourages me a great deal because I don't know > what to believe or where to go to try & figure it out. The web is great. Pick the issue and do a search on Google. You'll find all sorts of views and opinions and some facts as well. Brenda n.p.: Bahamadia - "Pep Talk" ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 07 Aug 2001 23:01:15 -0400 From: "Suze Cameron" Subject: Re: Joni's rhymes - Almost Famous On Tue, 7 Aug 2001 19:31:31 kerry wrote: >I always felt this way about Joni's use of "incendiary" in Come In From The >Cold. How many times do you hear THAT word in a song? Funny that you mention this Kerry! I watched Almost Famous again and it grabbed me that the word that gets the main character William through the stage door is "incindiary". Ironic? We know that Cameron Crowe is a huge Joni fan. Maybe symbolic, rather than ironic. Discuss amoungst yourselves...... Sue n.p. theme from local 11:00 p.m. news Get 250 color business cards for FREE! http://businesscards.lycos.com/vp/fastpath/ ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 07 Aug 2001 23:06:34 -0400 From: "Suze Cameron" Subject: Re: Hattie Mcdaniel(NJC) Relayer211 wrote: >There is a a very interesting show now on AMC about Hattie Mcdaniel who played Mammy in "Gone with the Wind." I don't know nothin' 'bout birthin' no babies......... Wait.....that wasn't her that was Butterfly McQueen, or was it?!?! Sue posting so much that people are going to think that Colin is visiting me :-) Get 250 color business cards for FREE! http://businesscards.lycos.com/vp/fastpath/ ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 7 Aug 2001 23:10:31 EDT From: Murphycopy@aol.com Subject: Re: Hattie Mcdaniel(NJC) In a message dated 8/7/01 10:08:10 PM, suze_1@lycos.com writes: << I don't know nothin' 'bout birthin' no babies......... Wait.....that wasn't her that was Butterfly McQueen, or was it?!?! >> Sue, I believe it was WallyK. --Bob ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 7 Aug 2001 23:14:19 EDT From: Relayer211@aol.com Subject: Re: Hattie Mcdaniel(NJC) In a message dated 8/7/01 11:07:00 PM Eastern Daylight Time, suze_1@lycos.com writes: << I don't know nothin' 'bout birthin' no babies......... Wait.....that wasn't her that was Butterfly McQueen, or was it?!?! >> yes,that was Butterfly Mcqueen ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 07 Aug 2001 23:22:06 -0400 From: "Suze Cameron" Subject: Re: Hattie Mcdaniel(NJC) On Tue, 7 Aug 2001 23:10:31 Murphycopy wrote: > >In a message dated 8/7/01 10:08:10 PM, suze_1@lycos.com writes: > ><< I don't know nothin' 'bout birthin' no >babies......... > >Wait.....that wasn't her that was Butterfly >McQueen, or was it?!?! >> > >Sue, I believe it was WallyK. > ROTFLMAO!!!!!!! I will show you the bruises from the fall I took while laughing my fool head off at this one! Going to bed with a goofy grin on my face....the hubby will probably think he is going to get lucky, and it will all be because of Wallista and BobMurph and the Venus butterfly....... And no, listas, I haven't been drinking :-) Sue (NOT COLIN!!!) Get 250 color business cards for FREE! http://businesscards.lycos.com/vp/fastpath/ ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 8 Aug 2001 00:05:56 -0400 From: "Victor Johnson" Subject: Allman Bros and Phil Lesh and Friends(for all the dead heads in the room) (njc) I got to see the Allman Brothers along with Phil Lesh and Friends close out their tour in Georgia this weekend and together the created some of the most magical moments I have every experienced. I was a little disappointed with the beginning of Phil and Friends. It started out sort of spotlighting Warren Haynes(guitar and vocals) and I had come hoping to hear more of Phil. But about halfway through, after "Sugaree", they brought out "Birdsong" and it was truly magical and beautiful and just the prettiest version of this song I have ever had experienced. He even changed the words to "All I know is something like a bird within him sang," making it a haunting tribute to Jerry Garcia but in the most fitting way and their harmony was so strong and tight, brilliant sounding really, echoing over the hill... "Don't cry now, Don't you cry, Don't you cry, Anymore, la da da da Sleep with the stars, Don't you cry, Dry your eyes on the wind, La da da da... Ah..Ahhhhh......" I felt transformed and transcended in a way I haven't felt since I saw the Grateful Dead for the last time in 1995. It had this fragility to it and yet it was so strong. As they went into "China Cat Sunflower", "Franklin's Tower", and finally "And We Bid You Goodnight" I was just soaring with the energy that had been created. And if that wasn't enough, the Allman Brothers just came and completely blew me away. I hadn't been sure what to expect from them and had mainly been interested in seeing Phil but they completely surpassed my expectations. I don't know how to describe this but they did this 25 minute version of "Jessica" that was so powerful and beautiful I literally felt like I was being pulled out of my own body. As Derek Trucks and Warren Haynes wailed on their guitars, the backdrop offered these visions of dolphins, whales, seagulls, and suns on the ocean water, all through a prism so that everything was doubled on to itself and the whales and dolphins kept jumping out of the water and it just built up and built up and by the time Chuck Leavall did his piano solo I truly felt like one with this song. Nothing they did after that really lived up to that moment but the rest of the show was definately enjoyable. The bummer though is that on the way home, tired and ready to sleep, my roommate and I got pulled over by the police for no apparent reason, had to sit in the car for about 20 minutes, and then am told I have a headlight out and am given a ticket. What a way to spoil a high! But it truly was a remarkable show and one I will remember forever. Victor Victor Johnson http://www.cdbaby.com/victorjohnson "Just beyond the morning falls the river of your dreams, Escaping from the day these wild creatures run away." Victor Johnson ------------------------------ End of JMDL Digest V2001 #336 ***************************** ------- Post messages to the list by clicking here: mailto:joni@smoe.org Unsubscribe by clicking here: mailto:joni-digest-request@smoe.org?body=unsubscribe ------- Siquomb, isn't she?