From: les@jmdl.com (JMDL Digest) To: joni-digest@smoe.org Subject: JMDL Digest V2001 #333 Reply-To: joni@smoe.org Sender: les@jmdl.com Errors-To: les@jmdl.com Precedence: bulk Unsubscribe: mailto:joni-digest-request@smoe.org?body=unsubscribe Archives: http://www.smoe.org/lists/joni Websites: http://www.jmdl.com http://www.jonimitchell.com JMDL Digest Monday, August 6 2001 Volume 2001 : Number 333 The Official Joni Mitchell Homepage, created by Wally Breese, can be found at http://www.jonimitchell.com. It contains the latest news, a detailed bio, Original Interviews, essays, lyrics and much much more. The JMDL website can be found at http://www.jmdl.com and contains interviews, articles, the member gallery, archives, and much more. Information on the 4th "Annual" New England JoniFest: http://www.jmdl.com/jfne2001.cfm ========== TOPICS and authors in this Digest: -------- Re: njc: Beatles [Michael Paz ] Today in Joni History: August 6 [les@jmdl.com] Today's Articles: August 6 [les@jmdl.com] Re: Commonwealth Air Training Plan ["Kakki" ] How Do you stop....where do you start? [Gordon Mackie ] Re: jmdl cookbook question [Jerry Notaro ] RE: Win your free copy of Covers, Volume 20 [SCJoniGuy@aol.com] RE: jmdl cookbook question ["Deb Messling" ] Jansch/Denny (NJC) ["kerry" ] Re: How Do you stop....where do you start? [SCJoniGuy@aol.com] Re: Subject: Europe vs US On second thought NJC [Mags ] Re: How Do you stop....where do you start? [Jerry Notaro ] Re: Jansch/Denny (NJC) [SCJoniGuy@aol.com] Re: Jansch/Denny (NJC) [AzeemAK@aol.com] Re: Jansch/Denny (NJC) [AzeemAK@aol.com] Jonifest Videos: To clarify....... (NJC) [AsharaJM@aol.com] chinese cafe ["shane mattison" ] Re: Subject: Europe vs US On second thought NJC Loooonnngg [Catherine McK] Re: Subject: Europe vs US On second thought NJC [colin ] Re: how do you stop ["Sharon L. Buffington" ] songs about the circus (njc) ["Michael Paz" ] RE: jmdl cookbook question [Les Irvin ] Re: Subject: Europe vs US On second thought NJC Loooonnngg ["Kakki" Subject: Re: njc: Beatles Mark I have always loved this tune and I DO believe it is all Pauly. I have sung this many a time and still love it. Thanks for bringing it back to the surface. Best Paz on 8/1/01 6:07 PM, Mark or Travis at mark.travis@gte.net wrote: >> A check of Beatles 45's on ebay showed a range of $184.00 for an >> original German pressing of "My Bonnie" in original (non pic) sleeve >> (and not in wonderful shape, but rare) to $1.00 for "Come Together/ >> Something" on Apple in fairly good shape, original black Apple >> sleeve. > > For some reason the old Beatles song 'And I Love Her' popped into my > head yesterday. Anybody else like this song? It has a pretty melody, > though nothing complex and fairly simple lyrics. I always liked it > better than 'Yesterday' if the truth be told. Was this mostly from > the pen of Sir Paul? Anyone know? > > Mark in Seattle > 'bright are the stars that shine, dark is the sky-y.....' ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 06 Aug 2001 03:41:38 -0400 From: les@jmdl.com Subject: Today in Joni History: August 6 On August 6 in Joni Mitchell History: 1965: Joni performs at the Mariposa Folk Festival, Ontario. In the program it read: "Joni Anderson - Joni is a relatively new performer on the local folk music scene. She began her singing career in 1964 with an appearance at The Depression in Calgary and The Yardbird Suite in Edmonton. After gaining acceptance in Western Canada, Joni decided to move east and seek her fortune in Toronto. Since her arrival last fall, she has enjoyed performances at several coffee houses--The Bohemian Embassy, The New Gate of Cleve, and the Underground, to name a few. Joni is also noted for playing the tipple--an eight-string instrument slightly larger than the ukelele." More info: http://www.jonimitchell.com/Mariposa.html - ------------------------ Search the "Today" database: http://www.jmdl.com/today ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 06 Aug 2001 03:41:38 -0400 From: les@jmdl.com Subject: Today's Articles: August 6 On August 6 these articles were published: 1969: "Saskatoon Night" - Saskatoon StarPhoenix (News Item) http://www.jmdl.com/articles/docs/690806ssp.cfm 1994: "Joni Mitchell" - Calgary Herald (Interview) http://www.jmdl.com/articles/docs/940806ch.cfm - ------------------------ The JMDL Article Database has 619 titles. http://www.jmdl.com/articles ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 6 Aug 2001 01:03:31 -0700 From: "Kakki" Subject: Re: Commonwealth Air Training Plan Shane, Thank you so much for the wonderful descriptions of Fort MacLeod and the historical background. I really appreciate it. I'd always imagined the place as a desolate prairie wasteland outpost (mainly because so many of the U.S. military bases have traditionally been in the "outback" down here in the states). But, no, Fort MacLeod has character, history, color and beauty. And I'm happy to hear that Joni's father played a very important role there during the war. Of course, that "Chinese Cafe" caught my eye, too - but I wonder if it is the same as in the song? It always seemed like Joni was talking about a place she hung out at with her friends as a young adult - maybe in Saskatoon or in college in Alberta. Who knows, though, maybe it is some kind of reference to the cafe in Fort MacLeod. Please keep sending in the details - I love reading them. Kakki ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 6 Aug 2001 09:28:32 +0100 From: Gordon Mackie Subject: How Do you stop....where do you start? Hi y'all MGVal@aol.com wrote about the song How Do You Stop in response to Nuriel's question. Aye, there's the rub..its' not Joni's song in the sense that she penned neither words nor lyrics. It was written by Dan Hartman and Charlie Midnight. Clearly Joni thought the song had resonnances with her life but I do feel there's a lesson there for us all in terms of looking too hard for references where they don't exist. I mean ....did anyone notice that if you play the album 'Court and Spark' backwards, it spells out step by step Joni's manifesto for devil worship. I follow it religiously. Going back in my coffin...it's way too light outside....yes Mistress Mitchell I will create a Church of Joni...eventually. I will use better tactics next time..creak..c'thud! Gordon PS Hope y'all noticed..no famous suicide pseudonym. Like myself it got way too boring! ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 6 Aug 2001 01:41:00 -0700 From: "Kakki" Subject: Re: Subject: Europe vs US On second thought NJC Marcel, You make some interesting and funny points. >For some reason some Americans have this reflex about Europe being "better" than the US. Of course so do Eurpoeans. It's true and I've always wondered if there is some inate allegiance to the "old country" (whatever that particular country may be) that makes Americans tend to defer to Europe on some levels. Of course, the culture is so much older, many of the cities are far more beautiful, they do as a whole seem more civilized than the typical brash American character, and I do envy them all getting almost two months holiday each year (last I heard only the Japanese rival us in our workaholism). I've never been to Europe - have either had to pass up many chances or couldn't decide on which countries I wanted to see first. I've met a number of them, however, and have enjoyed and regarded them highly (except for a few snotty French I met down in the Caribbean once - being American AND Californian was a double whammy ;-). I've been to some of the French West Indies and based on the food there will give it to the French for being the most incredible cooks. But they do not know how to do breakfast! However, one of the best breakfasts I ever had was at a B&B in Victoria, B.C. prepared by a couple from England, so we can't completely claim to be the best in that area! As far as socialized health care, my personal experiences the past three years in an HMO here (the precusor cousin to nationalized health care) has been a complete nightmare and two people I worked with have died needlessly as a direct result of the incompetency of that system. I now pay extra gladly to have my own choice of doctors and treatment. Not trying to start up a fight about it, but it's a particularly sore subject with me these days. (And no, we don't throw people out on the street in the U.S. who need treatment - any hospital who receives government funds (most of them) is obligated to treat anyone who walks in the door regardless of financial ability to pay and there is always state and federal medicare/medicaid). And it is absolutely true that the mood and feeling changes the moment you cross over the border into Canada. I've been back and forth since I was very young and have always felt the calm and comfort immediately. It is a wonderful country with gorgeous cities and people. Come to think of it, there is a definite and immediate change in mood crossing over into Mexico, too! I go there more often because it is closer to me, and always love the excitement and totally different feel there. I'm glad there is still much diversity in the U.S. - even though the MacDonald's, malls and chain stores have encroached on each and we tend to all listen to the same few news outlets and TV shows, each state to me is truly unique from each other. In some you feel like you are in another country altogether (Hawaii, Alaska, Nevada, New Mexico and many others). And of course, California, too, has always been it's own country for all intents and purposes ;-D Kakki ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 6 Aug 2001 12:26:49 +0200 From: "Marian" Subject: Re: jmdl cookbook question On Sun, 05 Aug 2001 15:21:09 -0700 Randy Remote wrote: > Does anyone know if the jmdl cookbook > is posted online somewhere? I need my > own recipe! Thanks Hi Randy - The JMDL cookbook is not yet online. It is a project I want to do someday, but just haven't found the time yet. Here is your recipe: + + + + + + + + You're So Squares 1 cup peanut butter 1 cup brown rice syrup 1 teaspoon canola oil 1 cup puffed rice 1/2 cup granola 1/4 cup chocolate or carob chips optional: 1/4 cup shredded coconut 1/4 cup chopped nuts Melt peanut butter and rice syrup over low heat until soft, but not so it's scorching the bottom of pan. Remove from heat and stir in remaining ingredients, but wait until it begins to cool for the chocolate/carob chips, or they will melt! Press into a lightly oiled pie pan, refrigerate, cut into squares, baby you will care! This is a delicious snack that can easily be made vegan, has no white sugar, and comes out like a Snickers bar. Also try substituting almond, cashew, sunflower butter etc. for the peanut butter. + + + + + + + + Marian marian@jmdl.com http://www.jmdl.com/guitar/marian/guitar.htm ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 06 Aug 2001 08:08:06 -0400 From: Jerry Notaro Subject: Re: jmdl cookbook question I have the cookbook electronically and can send a copy in an attached message. Jerry ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 06 Aug 2001 08:08:04 EDT From: SCJoniGuy@aol.com Subject: RE: Win your free copy of Covers, Volume 20 ***trumpet fanfare*** We HAVE a winner, er, we have a leader, um, I mean, we have a winner whose NAME is leader!! Congrats, Patrick Leader!! One of my favorite listers, even when he lurks, which is shameful considering how astute he is... Anyway, Patrick's guess was "God Must Be A Boogie Man" from S&L, my pick was "Why Do Fools Fall in Love", so he was the closest. Honorable mention goes to another of my favorite people, THE Mr. John Low...John, so close & yet so far. But fret not, many more volumes to come... And, ahem, John was the ONLY Aussie lister to even guess, and he darn near won! So, for the rest of you lazy Aussies, hang your heads and eat some vegemite! ;~) Next contest: Who can guess what color Patrick's hair will be at this year's Jonifest? :~D Bob NP: Bruce, "Prove It All Night" 9/19/78 ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 6 Aug 2001 08:20:14 -0400 From: "Deb Messling" Subject: RE: jmdl cookbook question I wonder if the community in general could help out with this project? It shouldn't have to fall to one person. The JMDL recipes would be a natural addition to our web site, no? Les, what say you? > The JMDL cookbook is not yet online. It is a project I want to > do someday, > but just haven't found the time yet. Here is your recipe: - ----------------------------------- Deb Messling =^..^= - ----------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 6 Aug 2001 07:31:20 -0500 From: "kerry" Subject: Jansch/Denny (NJC) Bob, I couldn't agree more about Ani!! I would also add Joan Armatrading to the list. Kerry Bob wrote: And I was amazed that you didn't include Ani Difranco on your list, Philip...after all: 1. Her first release was all acoustic, and she grew into working with a band; 2. Her lyrics are brilliant, like Joni's, and she's not afraid to be outspoken, both on social & political issues as well as emotional ones. She bares herself in her songs with words that can make you laugh and/or cry, but always feel. 3. She always keeps you guessing; she's more intent on progressing musically instead of catering to the world of pop, you can always count on her to surprise you musically. 4. She's a radically smart business person, rather than sign a contract of indentured servitude with a record label, she releases what she wants when she wants on her own. Anyway, when I think of who's the "Joni-est" out there, Ani fills the bill for me! ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 06 Aug 2001 08:51:10 EDT From: SCJoniGuy@aol.com Subject: Re: How Do you stop....where do you start? <> BUT Nuriel's point was a good one...I don't have a copy of JB's version on me, but was Joni's version the first to add the "how do you stop a baby being born"? I hadn't noticed its absence in the other versions I'd heard (James Brown, Hanne Boel, Christine Sullivan), but I'd be REAL surprised if those lyrics were Joni's concept...after all, they're not very good. How do you stop the ripening corn? Joni grew up in farm country, and I'm sure she saw a lot of cornfields go south due to drought, flood, etc. Anyway, I could be wrong, and if it's so then Nuriel makes a very interesting point! Maybe Joni was frustrated with the inability to get in touch with Kilauren at the time and the additional lyric was just her way of expressing it. Bob NP: Steel Pulse, "Ravers" ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 06 Aug 2001 09:22:00 -0400 From: Mags Subject: Re: Subject: Europe vs US On second thought NJC Kakki wrote: > > > > < "old country" (whatever that particular country may be) that makes Americans > tend to defer to Europe on some levels. >> So true Kakki. I have heard this sentiment before from family and friends whose hearts remain 'back home'. > < older, many of the cities are far more beautiful, they do as a whole seem > more civilized than the typical brash American character, and I do envy them > all getting almost two months holiday each year (last I heard only the > Japanese rival us in our workaholism). I've never been to Europe>> I've never been to Europe and yet I am drawn to it like some kind of magical magnetic force. Been there in another life perhaps. For me, it is the 'idea' of Europe....something so much more exotic than where I live. And then there are the Wallistahs of the world who find Canada and Canadians exotic....so there you go. It is all a matter of perspective. > As far as the best breakfasts are concerned, I just became co-owner of a > Belgian waffle iron and am about to embark on an adventure I have long awaited > for. Looking forward to that Tofu topping ;-) mmmmmm! > > < years in an HMO here (the precusor cousin to nationalized health care) has > been a complete nightmare and two people I worked with have died needlessly > as a direct result of the incompetency of that system. I now pay extra > gladly to have my own choice of doctors and treatment. Not trying to start > up a fight about it, but it's a particularly sore subject with me these > days. (And no, we don't throw people out on the street in the U.S. who need > treatment - any hospital who receives government funds (most of them) is > obligated to treat anyone who walks in the door regardless of financial > ability to pay and there is always state and federal medicare/medicaid).>> a real can of worms for me especially in light of my own experiences with family members and myself of late with the Canadian healthcare system. All I can say is thanks a hell of a lot Mike. (Harris). Right Catherine??? I dont want to blow the stellar mood Im in so I wont even go into my most recent trials .. trust me , there is a lot of truth in the rumours the media spreads about the collapse of that faerie tale. > > < cross over the border into Canada. I've been back and forth since I was > very young and have always felt the calm and comfort immediately. It is a > wonderful country with gorgeous cities and people. >> As a Canadian, I feel the difference when visiting the US. It is just different. Different culture, different experiences. I feel fortunate to say that for the most part, my experiences there have been wonderful. What I really get a kick out of is when people refer to themselves for example from the Philadelphia area and then refer to me as being from Canada. I find that so endearing! ;-) > > > <> Again, I agree... and as un l'etranger in that strange wild and wonderful US of A... there are lots of positive things about being there. Tonnes in fact. Mags np: the hissing of my waffle iron :)))))) > - -- And this loving is a drawing close, a tuning in, an opening. Until one perfect moment; but how can it be expressed? A receiving, an enfolding as I cradle you in my arms. Within my heart, within my soul, You are my true love. --Lui Collins - --- _~O / /\_, ___/\ /_ ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 06 Aug 2001 09:38:35 -0400 From: Mags Subject: Re: How Do you stop....where do you start? Bobs wrote: > > < > Anyway, I could be wrong, and if it's so then Nuriel makes a very interesting point! Maybe Joni was frustrated with the inability to get in touch with Kilauren at the time and the additional lyric was just her way of expressing it.>> > and now me: > ohhh I wasnt going to jump in on this one but what the hell.... preamble...coming straight from the place of 'in my humble opinion'......count me in on the notion ...I dont think that Joni was referring to her baby in those > lyrics..('how do you stop a baby being born"). To me, this does speak to the inevitable, the things we have little to no control over. The things that slip through our fingers despite our efforts to stop the force of gravity. So it > seems. As a woman who has her own Little Green, I cannot imagine wishing that baby did not exist despite all the heartache and sorrow brought about by losing him so long ago. Oh the lessons of love are all around. I shared an amazing, touching day of revelation yesterday with my beloved and most special Aunt who lost her husband, soul mate and very best friend earlier this year. She spoke of the healing power of love and what it means to love someone so much that you would do anything for them. And this brings me back to my decision to let my son go... I had no choice really and the only thing that gets me through the day on this one is that i have to believe that in doing so, I was doing the ultimate act of giving ... both to him and to his parents. I have to believe that. I have to believe that he had a chance at a better life than the one I wanted to give but could not at that time. Love is a healer. Mags - -- And this loving is a drawing close, a tuning in, an opening. Until one perfect moment; but how can it be expressed? A receiving, an enfolding as I cradle you in my arms. Within my heart, within my soul, You are my true love. --Lui Collins - --- _~O / /\_, ___/\ /_ ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 06 Aug 2001 09:51:52 -0400 From: Jerry Notaro Subject: Re: How Do you stop....where do you start? What is the exact quote from Joni? Something like "We used to call it free love. Now we all know better. Nothing is free." Something like that. It struck me when I heard her say that considering her Little Green. Jerry Mags wrote: > Bobs wrote: > > > > > < > > > Anyway, I could be wrong, and if it's so then Nuriel makes a very interesting point! Maybe Joni was frustrated with the inability to get in touch with Kilauren at the time and the additional lyric was just her way of expressing it.>> > > > > > and now me: > > > ohhh I wasnt going to jump in on this one but what the hell.... preamble...coming straight from the place of 'in my humble opinion'......count me in on the notion ...I dont think that Joni was referring to her baby in those > > lyrics..('how do you stop a baby being born"). To me, this does speak to the inevitable, the things we have little to no control over. The things that slip through our fingers despite our efforts to stop the force of gravity. So it > > seems. > > As a woman who has her own Little Green, I cannot imagine wishing that baby did not exist despite all the heartache and sorrow brought about by losing him so long ago. Oh the lessons of love are all around. I shared an amazing, > touching day of revelation yesterday with my beloved and most special Aunt who lost her husband, soul mate and very best friend earlier this year. She spoke of the healing power of love and what it means to love someone so much that > you would do anything for them. And this brings me back to my decision to let my son go... I had no choice really and the only thing that gets me through the day on this one is that i have to believe that in doing so, I was doing the > ultimate act of giving ... both to him and to his parents. I have to believe that. I have to believe that he had a chance at a better life than the one I wanted to give but could not at that time. Love is a healer. > > Mags > > -- > And this loving is a drawing close, > a tuning in, an opening. > Until one perfect moment; > but how can it be expressed? > A receiving, an enfolding > as I cradle you in my arms. > Within my heart, within my soul, > You are my true love. > > --Lui Collins > > --- > > _~O > / /\_, > ___/\ > /_ ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 6 Aug 2001 14:57:36 +0100 From: Subject: Re: Jansch/Denny (NJC) > And I was amazed that you didn't include Ani Difranco on your list, > Philip...after all: > Sorry 'bout that Bob, but even I can't know everything. I've only heard a little of Ani Difranco's music, not enough to give an opinion, I saw her at a festival a couple of years ago but wasn't really paying attention. I also forgot to include the reclusive heavyweight Kate Bush and Scottish middleweight Eddi Reader. I suppose your Cat Power rating is more realistic, but bear in mind it's not about chords. Many great songs contain only 3. Philip ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 06 Aug 2001 10:09:28 EDT From: SCJoniGuy@aol.com Subject: Re: Jansch/Denny (NJC) <> So true! But when the *artist* only KNOWS 3, you've got a problem! ;~) Bob NP: Keb' Mo', "Love Train" ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 6 Aug 2001 10:13:00 EDT From: AzeemAK@aol.com Subject: Re: Jansch/Denny (NJC) In a message dated 06/08/01 15:11:05 GMT Daylight Time, SCJoniGuy@aol.com writes: << <> So true! But when the *artist* only KNOWS 3, you've got a problem! ;~) >> Reminds me of an immortal quote from that great sage (!) Lemmy of Motorhead: "We only knew three chords, but we arranged 'em very well." Azeem ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 6 Aug 2001 10:13:00 EDT From: AzeemAK@aol.com Subject: Re: Jansch/Denny (NJC) In a message dated 06/08/01 15:11:05 GMT Daylight Time, SCJoniGuy@aol.com writes: << <> So true! But when the *artist* only KNOWS 3, you've got a problem! ;~) >> Reminds me of an immortal quote from that great sage (!) Lemmy of Motorhead: "We only knew three chords, but we arranged 'em very well." Azeem ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 6 Aug 2001 11:25:34 EDT From: AsharaJM@aol.com Subject: Jonifest Videos: To clarify....... (NJC) The video tapes of Jonifest that will be made available will be in regular VHS (NTSC) format. Unfortunately, as of yet, we do not have the capacity to make PAL format tapes. The price of tapes does not include shipping, so whatever the cost of shipping is, that will be tacked on to the price of the tapes. The request for getting an idea of who might want to order tapes, and how many they might be interested in is just to get an idea of whether enough tapes would be sold to make it worth the videographer's time/energy. They will not be officially offered for purchase until well after Jonifest, after they are edited and mastered. I think that covers all the questions that have been coming my way. It looks like this is a "go". I just need to confirm with Rich. Thank you to the 7 people that have donated to the scholarship fund. Time is getting very close, so if you are moved to donate any amount at all to help someone out, please send your donations as soon as possible. Thanks! Hugs, Ashara ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 6 Aug 2001 10:22:40 -0600 From: "shane mattison" Subject: chinese cafe kakki wrote: <> it is interesting that most prairie towns above say , arbitrarily, 3000 pop. have a chinese cafe on their main street, whether alberta or saskatchewan, and i've even encountered it in the dakotas...this could have influenced the composite picture in the song...but if joni was being more specific, fort macleod would not be the locale...though i bet she knows of the one in fort macleod...as you say saskatoon is the most likely, dreamin' romance with her fellow teenage girlfriends...maybe our saskatoon friends know of a candidate spot...calgary- its possible, because the righteous brothers version came out in '65...though their were earlier versions by other artists that also made top ten... ...in the song she describes a pretty universal experience of youth in the late 50s and early 60s...i bet you can find such cafes all the way from vancouver island to new jersey, with saskatoon getting somewhat of a nod... shane ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 6 Aug 2001 12:28:07 -0400 (EDT) From: Catherine McKay Subject: Re: Subject: Europe vs US On second thought NJC Loooonnngg Just a few thoughts on some of the following - Europe vs Canada/the US; the US compared to Canada; good brekkies and where to find them; health care systems of various kinds; socialism vs capitalism; and so on... Whoever first mentioned that maybe the idea that some Americans (and Canadians) have that things are *better* in Eueope may be related to a longing for the old country probably has a point (even though some of us, like me for example, are at least fourth-generation here in Canada). Maybe it's one of those grass-is-greener things; or maybe it's the fact that things are different elsewhere and some of us crave a bit of a change every now and then. those who don't, will think it's better *here*. The one thing that really pisses me off is people who live here (in my case, here = Canada, but I'm sure you could substitute your own "here" for it and it would still work) but who bitch and whine about how badly we do things *here* and how much better they are somewhere else, like the old country, for example. All of which makes me wonder, if it was so great *there*, then why did you come *here*? More to the point, why don't you go back *there*? A while ago, some friends of my husband (when he was still living here) came over and all they did was whine about how things were *better* in Europe (he is originally from Hungary, she from the Netherlands) and that they're also so much *better* in the USA. So, why are they choosing to live in Canada? Partly because they can't afford to move and, in the case of moving to the US, probably because the US probably wouldn't take them (she has been ill with some difficult-to-diagnose thing that sounded kind of like a crock to me, but I'm not a doctor, so how am I to know?) Anyway, I bit my tongue - I don't know these people well enough to want to bother getting into an argument with them about what boils down to one person's opinion vs another - however, the logical question is: if you hate it so much here, why do you stay? As far as differences between Americans and Canadians - - it has been a long time since I've been to the US, but I can't say I ever noticed a difference in the atmosphere (i.e., that it *feels* safer in Canada than it does in the US). Perhaps things have changed, or maybe it just depends on *where* you happen to be in either country - there are good and bad neighbourhoods in both countries and I can think of places in Canada where you might run into people who are just as strange as the ones Colin met in New England. I'm sure the same holds true of any place you could visit - - if you go to some out-of-the-way place in any country, you might be eyed with suspision or you might be something interesting to gawk at. I think of a co-worker of mine who worked in China for a while (not even Hong Kong - it was mainland China). She happens to be black and the Chinese, who are probably not used to seeing even white people, let alone black people, were fascinated with her. She did find it unnerving that people were pointing and staring at her and pretty obviously talking about her, but no one treated her badly - it just got kind of tiresome being the centre of attention all the time. I've always found the Americans I've met to be very friendly and open. Canadians are *supposed* to be more reserved. I have no idea if that's true or not - how would I know, being one of them? I do find Americans are more likely to be really vocal about politics and so on (like Marcel!!!) whereas a Canadian would probably be more likely (depending on where they happen to be) to keep it to him/herself until they had an idea of the lay of the land. I do find that people are are wingers (right- or left- ) are more likely to be really vocal about their political feelings than people like me, who are namby-pamby fence-sitters who can see merit and problems in just about any political ideology you can think of. Speaking of which, what's so wrong with socialism? The problem with socialism is the same as the problem with capitalism - the -isms all work quite well in theory, but unfortunately, people get hold of them and find ways to screw them up. As far as health systems go, I agree with Mags that politicians along the lines of our premier Mike Harris here in Ontario, seem hell-bent on changing things just for the sake of change and just to get back at previous governments, all the while alienating anyone who gets paid out of the public purse - whether you're talking about teachers, doctors, nurses, or anyone who works for government (as I do) where morale is at an all-time low - how could it help but be? I'm certainly not against change and I believe changes are sorely needed in many of these areas and that both the politicians and the unions could do a much better job of working together and not thinking in such a linear way (if we want to save money, let's lay off a whole bunch of people, which is much easier than looking at the *way* we're doing things - and it's the frontline workers such as nurses and teachers who end up getting laid off, not the many layers of administration between them and the government dollar). And, our government does things in such a confrontational way - they don't even pretend they want to work together. But enough of that. In my family, most of our experiences with the health care system as it works here in Canada (province of Ontario) has been pretty positive. But that's going back a few years and, from what I've heard, things are getting worse. As a really small and perhaps not very important example, I have this mole on my arm that has been bothering me for ages. My doctor tells me it's nothing to worry about but he did finally give me a referral to a dermatologist. I made an appointment about 8 weeks ago to see this guy in mid-August. I'm pretty sure it's not cancer and would hate to think that anything cosmetic would mean that someone with a *real* problem might have to wait. On the other hand, one of the reasons for the wait is that the gov't has cut back on how much and for what it will pay doctors for certain procedures. Many of the dermatologists and ophthalmologists are doing a lot of cosmetic-type surgery now (things not covered by the provincial health plan, for which they can charge whatever the market will bear, and are not restricted in any way by the government). So the real reason you might have to wait to see a dermatologist (about a mole, for example) is that he's also doing face-lifts or other cosmetic surgery much of the time and restricting the time he spends on things covered by prov. health insurance so that he doesn't go past his limit (if he does, he still gets paid, but at a lesser rate, and they don't want to work for less money doing the same thing). or, the reason you might have to wait for cataract surgery is that the opthalmologist can make big bucks doing laser eye surgery (again, not covered by health insurance and they can pick up an easy $2,000 or more for less than an hour's work). Some people try to claim that these waits are due to an undersupply of specialists; the government claims that we're not undersupplied at all - in fact, in some specialties we're oversupplied. They're both right. What it boils down to goes back to what I said about socialism and capitalism - any system works, except that people will ALWAYS find a way around the system - whether we're talking about soldiers with guns enforcing a political system; doctors trying to make more money whatever way they can; welfare fraud; whatever. The question is, can we live with that and do we have a choice? Just how restrictive do we want to be and is it worth making some people suffer so that we can nab the ones who are cheating the system? I have no idea. BTW the Americans and the English both make darn good breakfasts if you like to eat a big breakfast. If you prefer a small breakfast, you could do a lot worse than a croissant and a cafe au lait. Get your free @yahoo.ca address at http://mail.yahoo.ca ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 06 Aug 2001 17:40:35 +0100 From: colin Subject: Re: Subject: Europe vs US On second thought NJC > It's true and I've always wondered if there is some inate allegiance to the > "old country" one of the good things, as far as I am concerend, about having travelled so much and having lived in different countries, is that I have no allegience to anywhere. I have no 'homeland'. New England counts as the most stunningly beautiful place I have ever seen. Not even Malaysia beats it in my eyes. The parts of Canada I saw were not so beautiful, in fact soemwhat broing by comaprison. Whcih is why I'd like to see the west coast next time. I could have travelled further north on my vsit to Canada and intenede too but was advised not to due to a weather front moving in which may leave me trappped for several days. As for living standards etc: each country has their advantages and disadvantages. bw colin DAK,BRO GC, 950i 940,860,864, 260, 890,Silver 830 and 270, Passap 6000 Duo80 colin@tantra-apso.com http://www.tantra-apso.com ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 06 Aug 2001 17:46:10 +0100 From: colin Subject: Re: Subject: Europe vs US On second thought NJC Loooonnngg > BTW the Americans and the English both make darn good > breakfasts if you like to eat a big breakfast. If you > prefer a small breakfast, you could do a lot worse > than a croissant and a cafe au lait. my breakfats consists of coffee and fags. can't abide food frist thing in the morning. ick! > > Get your free @yahoo.ca address at http://mail.yahoo.ca - -- bw colin DAK,BRO GC, 950i 940,860,864, 260, 890,Silver 830 and 270, Passap 6000 Duo80 colin@tantra-apso.com http://www.tantra-apso.com ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 6 Aug 2001 11:46:57 -0500 From: "Michael Paz" Subject: Re: A Walk Down Abbey Road (NJC) Good point BoB! LoL! What a great story huh? That Nikki is SO lucky. I am disappointed that there is not tapes from this show. I would love to hear it. I asked her about setlists for this show and she doesn't remember (she says she's slept since then). Sounds to me like she's getting old! If anyone else knows more about this tour (setlists) or has any tapes I am UP for a trade. Later Paz > From: SCJoniGuy@aol.com wrote: > > Of course, it begs the question - if Stevie has laryngitis, how can you tell? > :~D > > Bob > > NP: Akiko Pavolka, "Goodbye Pork Pie Hat" ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 06 Aug 2001 12:20:35 -0500 From: "Sharon L. Buffington" Subject: Re: how do you stop How could anyone write such a wonderful person off? I am sorry that happened to you. MGVal@aol.com wrote: > > Nuriel Tobias writes: > > > in "how do you stop" joni adds the line - "how do you stop a baby being born" - a line which does not appear in the james brown song. and i was wondering why. could it be that joni felt so messed up with her daughter's loss that she was wishing she would have never bore her? > > Granted, there are messed up areas in Joni's life, (isn't there in everyone's?), but I respectfully think that you are way off base by thinking that the "how do you stop a baby being born" was her addition dovetailing with wishing she had never had her child. > > The song "How Do You Stop" is more about "what can you do about the inevitable" when you've put love off until "later." Or what appears to be the inevitable. > > And the tinker that Joni is, perhaps that "baby being born" just slid out naturally and worked for her. > > It's a great song - one of the few that I enjoy from the album T.I. It is a very poignant one when I think about it in conjunction with love lost, missed connections and oportunities. > > This song also is a marvelous puzzle. Do things get too late and do inevitable forces mean that there is no getting back to that love? Or is it just another variation on the GBS line that "youth is wasted on the very young?" Once you've "seen the light" and learned something, is it too late? > > I know for myself that the deeper I get into my forties, (sigh, tick, tick, tick), the more this song resonates for me. > > MG > > np: things in the dryer whirling. > > PS I would also like to thank the list members who wrote me off list. It really made me feel so welcomed. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 06 Aug 2001 13:15:08 -0400 From: farneddy@mindspring.com Subject: Re: onlyJMDL Digest V2001 #238 I was at the Joni's Jazz concert and it was a mixed bag, Toshi Reagon is amazing and really tore up the place. I just got back from seeing her at the Newport Folk Festival. She was the best act there.Chaka Khan blew me away. I too have hoped to find recordings of this evening. There were many great moments (and some not so great). Frederick ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 07 Aug 2001 13:27:35 -0400 From: "Gerald A. Notaro" Subject: Re: onlyJMDL Digest V2001 #238 I thought Joy Askew and Joe Jackson were also outstanding. Not all performances were as good, but overall an outstanding event, especially for $10.00 And we got to sit just rows from Joni and watch her joy all night. Jerry farneddy@mindspring.com wrote: > I was at the Joni's Jazz concert and it was a mixed bag, Toshi Reagon is amazing and really tore up the place. I just got back from seeing her at the Newport Folk Festival. She was the best act there.Chaka Khan blew me away. I too have hoped to find recordings of this evening. There were many great moments (and some not so great). > > Frederick ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 06 Aug 2001 10:35:05 -0700 From: Randy Remote Subject: Re: jmdl cookbook question Thanks alot Marian! Gonna make me up a batch.... Sounds like Jerry has it in a format that could be posted: If so, can we get this on jm.com, Les? Jerry Notaro wrote: > I have the cookbook electronically and can send a copy in an attached > message. > > Jerry Marian wrote: > On Sun, 05 Aug 2001 15:21:09 -0700 Randy Remote wrote: > > > Does anyone know if the jmdl cookbook > > is posted online somewhere? I need my > > own recipe! Thanks > > Hi Randy - > > The JMDL cookbook is not yet online. It is a project I want to do someday, > but just haven't found the time yet. Here is your recipe: > > + + + + + + + + > > You're So Squares > > 1 cup peanut butter > 1 cup brown rice syrup > 1 teaspoon canola oil > 1 cup puffed rice > 1/2 cup granola > 1/4 cup chocolate or carob chips > optional: > 1/4 cup shredded coconut > 1/4 cup chopped nuts > > Melt peanut butter and rice syrup over low heat until soft, but not so it's > scorching the bottom of pan. Remove from heat and stir in remaining > ingredients, but wait until it begins to cool for the chocolate/carob chips, > or they will melt! Press into a lightly oiled pie pan, refrigerate, cut > into squares, baby you will care! This is a delicious snack that can easily > be made vegan, has no white sugar, and comes out like a Snickers bar. Also > try substituting almond, cashew, sunflower butter etc. for the peanut > butter. > > + + + + + + + + > > Marian > marian@jmdl.com > http://www.jmdl.com/guitar/marian/guitar.htm ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 6 Aug 2001 12:32:42 -0500 From: "Michael Paz" Subject: songs about the circus (njc) David- This might be way to obscure but since I am on my way to see Yes in Atlanta in a couple of weeks they are in my mind. Jon Anderson wrote a tune on the Tormato album called "The Circus of Heaven". It's more of a fantasy circus, but it is a neat tune. I use to cover this one and have fond memories of performing it. It may be a stretch for you though. It would be REALLY obscure though! I also vaguely remember an Irving Berlin tune about the Circus but it escapes me just now. Check out the website www.allmusic.com and do a song search with Circus as a word. Best Paz >Date: Sat, 4 Aug 2001 19:28:52 EDT >From: Dflahm@aol.com >Subject: songs about the circus (njc) >Judy and I are planning a show about the circus for our fall cabaret and we >are looking for material on that theme. Any ideas are welcome. >We already have the following: >Come follow the band >Be a clown >An elephant fly >Being for the benefit of Mister Kite (Beatles) >Don't cry out loud >The girlfriend of the whirling dervish >Talk to the animals >Be a lion >Swing high, swing low >Don't cry out loud >Don't look down >Frasier (the sensuous lion) >Showstopper >To be a performer >It looks like there are few enough songs literally about the circus that we have stretched wildly to fill out our program >As you may have discerned, we are strong on Broadway and Hollywood material >but I know there is a vast knowledge of 60s-and-after within the JMDL >membership. >***don't bother to suggest "That Song About the Midway." It's one of my >favorites but demands far too great an attention span to fit the pace of a >cabaret show. > Thanks, everybody, DAVID LAHM ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 06 Aug 2001 11:46:27 -0600 From: Les Irvin Subject: RE: jmdl cookbook question At 06:20 AM 8/6/2001, Deb Messling wrote: >I wonder if the community in general could help out with this project? It >shouldn't have to fall to one person. The JMDL recipes would be a natural >addition to our web site, no? Les, what say you? I'd love to have a recipe section at jmdl.com and I think that Marian has planned all along to do so. It just a matter of finding the time. Once Marian decides on the format, we would certainly welcome volunteers for the project! Les ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 6 Aug 2001 12:22:28 -0700 From: "Kakki" Subject: Re: Subject: Europe vs US On second thought NJC Loooonnngg Catherine wrote: > Whoever first mentioned that maybe the idea that some > Americans (and Canadians) have that things are *better* in Eueope may be related to a longing for the > old country probably has a point (even though some of us, like me for example, are at least fourth-generation here in >Canada). Maybe it's one of those grass-is-greener things; or maybe it's the fact that things are different elsewhere and some >of us crave a bit of a change every now and then. those who > don't, will think it's better *here*. That was me who mentioned it. I didn't quite mean that some Americans think the Europeans are better than them - it's more that I sense that Americans of European ancestry somewhat revere the historical bond and connection to Europe. At least when I was growing up, we were inundated with the "History of Western Civilization" (where Europe tended to be posed in the forefont of all the great accomplishments of world history) to the point where I'm sure it gave us a sense of respect and deference to the roots of many of our customs, religions, philosophies and so on. I have met many Europeans who will quite boldly criticize all that is wrong with the U.S. right to our faces. It's funny that most of us Americans in such a situation rarely will stand up for ourselves and tend to meekly accept the criticisms, almost like we are little children and they are the scolding parents. I don't have an explanation for it - only know that it happens often in exchanges between the two. > The one thing that really pisses me off is people who live here (in my case, here = Canada, but I'm sure you could substitute >your own "here" for it and it would still work) but who bitch and whine about how badly we do things *here* and how much >better they are somewhere else, like the old country, for example. All of which makes me wonder, if it was so great *there*, >then why did you come *here*? More to the point, why don't you go back *there*? Oh it's the same here! Except that more often than not it is from people moving in from other states. There has been quite an influx of people from other states into California the past 20-25 years. I used to meet so many transplants who would go on and on slamming California, L.A., etc. to the point where I would finally ask them why they didn't move back to where they came from! We had a bumper sticker that was popular here in the 80s "Welcome to California, Now Go Home." I think that the states of Oregon and/or Washington later adopted their own version of this which was aimed at the Californians moving up their way in droves ;-) > Speaking of which, what's so wrong with socialism? The problem with socialism is the same as the problem > with capitalism - the -isms all work quite well in theory, but unfortunately, people get hold of them and > find ways to screw them up. It would be wrong of me to judge socialism in the countries where it has predominated for many years. It is the system those countries have chosen and they are entitled to it. The U.S. system has been partially socialist for many years. Where (in my opinion only) a predominantly socialist system becomes wrong in the U.S. is that it can serve to nullify many of the laws and philosophy that the U.S. was founded on to begin with. We broke off from oppressive European rule precisely because we were overtaxed, had taxation without representation, wanted religious freedoms, wanted to free of class and caste systems, etc., but more broadly we believed in the individual's right to live the way they wanted and to pursue their own happiness with minimal government intrusion. Whatever the ills of capitalism, it is an "ism" that favors individual freedom more than the other "isms" and so it more theoretically compatible with the original goal of the so-called U.S. "founding fathers" and Constitution. >If you prefer a small breakfast, you could do a lot worse > than a croissant and a cafe au lait. I actually do prefer a small or no breakfast! If only the French breakfast I was served consisted of a nice croissant and cafe u lait. But is was a hideous combination of a small can of expired fruit, greyish eggs and soggy toast! Ugh! ;-) Kakki ------------------------------ End of JMDL Digest V2001 #333 ***************************** ------- Post messages to the list by clicking here: mailto:joni@smoe.org Unsubscribe by clicking here: mailto:joni-digest-request@smoe.org?body=unsubscribe ------- Siquomb, isn't she?