From: les@jmdl.com (JMDL Digest) To: joni-digest@smoe.org Subject: JMDL Digest V2001 #324 Reply-To: joni@smoe.org Sender: les@jmdl.com Errors-To: les@jmdl.com Precedence: bulk Unsubscribe: mailto:joni-digest-request@smoe.org?body=unsubscribe Archives: http://www.smoe.org/lists/joni Websites: http://www.jmdl.com http://www.jonimitchell.com JMDL Digest Wednesday, August 1 2001 Volume 2001 : Number 324 The Official Joni Mitchell Homepage, created by Wally Breese, can be found at http://www.jonimitchell.com. It contains the latest news, a detailed bio, Original Interviews, essays, lyrics and much much more. The JMDL website can be found at http://www.jmdl.com and contains interviews, articles, the member gallery, archives, and much more. Information on the 4th "Annual" New England JoniFest: http://www.jmdl.com/jfne2001.cfm ========== TOPICS and authors in this Digest: -------- RE: home decorating (NJC) ["Wally Kairuz" ] Re: Social Security Taxes / Privitization - NJC ["Kakki" ] sounthern liberals NJC [colin ] JMDL as an American list (njc) ["Robert Holliston" ] Re: JMDL as an American list (njc) ["colin" ] Re: july 31!!!!!!!!!!! njc ["hell" ] Re: "Ape"-alled njc ["hell" ] Re: REALLY "Ape"-alled njc ["hell" ] Re: and sometimes there'll be sorrow. njc, long ["hell" ] Re: JMDL as an American list (njc) ["J. R. Mills" ] Re: JMDL as an American list (njc) ["Victor Johnson" ] Re: Social Security Taxes / Privitization - NJC [Bobsart48@aol.com] Re: flawless/republicans NJC [Jerry Notaro ] Re: REALLY "Ape"-alled njc [colin ] Re: JMDL as an American list (njc) [Jerry Notaro ] Re: flawless/republicans NJC [colin ] Sometimes there'll be sorrow ["kerry" ] Re: JMDL as an American list (njc) [Reuben3rd@aol.com] Re: flawless/republicans NJC [Jerry Notaro ] Re: JMDL as an American list (njc) [Mags ] Automatic Download Managers? NJC [Whizzboom@aol.com] Re: JMDL as an American list (njc) [Dflahm@aol.com] joni touring, other touring ["shane mattison" ] Re: Social Security Taxes / Privitization - NJC [MDESTE1@aol.com] Toronto event (whatever it's called) [James Leahy ] mirren njc ["Wally Kairuz" ] Re: july 31!!!!!!!!!!! njc [Alison E ] Covers, Volume 20 [SCJoniGuy@aol.com] Re: JMDL as an American list (njc, APC, SOAPMBFTJMDLA)) [Don Rowe ] Ashara's Scholarship Fund!!! We need your help!!! [RoseMJoy@aol.com] ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Wed, 1 Aug 2001 04:08:44 -0300 From: "Wally Kairuz" Subject: RE: home decorating (NJC) lord almighty!!!!! i'm rolling, rolling, positively howling in the middle of the night as i look at these pictures! jan, god bless you honey! wally - -----Mensaje original----- De: owner-joni@jmdl.com [mailto:owner-joni@jmdl.com]En nombre de Mark or Travis Enviado el: Martes, 31 de Julio de 2001 10:20 p.m. Para: jan; joni@smoe.org Asunto: Re: home decorating (NJC) > http://www.lileks.com/institute/interiors/bhg/index.html ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 31 Jul 2001 23:59:36 -0700 From: "Kakki" Subject: Re: Social Security Taxes / Privitization - NJC Debra, I've been hearing about this idea for at least ten years. It didn't start with Dubya by any means. I always thought it started as a response to the government and experts have been giving us dire warnings us for years now that the SS funds are in imminent danger of running out and there will certainly be nothing left for the next generation. So some people look at it and think, "hmmm, the government should have been making some better return on our money all these years to secure the funds but they haven't, so maybe we should take things into our own hands." It's an understandable reaction when you are constantly being told it's all going down the drain. I think there was also a change in the law about 6-7 years ago to let people take money out of their 401K retirement accounts and self-invest. I have a friend who did just that. Again, that law seemed to be a reaction to the issue of the SS funds running out. By the way, I think SS is a godsend and am not against it at all. But if there is this problem of the funds running out that they have been hammering us about for the past several years, then what is the solution? Kakki > Since, as it's structured now, it's a program that doesn't effect Dubya's > wealthy pals much, I worry that he'll encourage changes mostly so the program > can benefit his pals (in this case the banking industry) and that he'll be able > to do that without much serious opposition since lower wage earners do not have > much political clout. Add to that his willingness to say how much it will > benefit the American people whether it actually does or not, and.... well, > obviously I don't trust the guy's motives at all. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 01 Aug 2001 03:57:23 -0400 From: dsk Subject: Re: Social Security Taxes / Privitization - NJC Kakki wrote: > I've been hearing about this idea for at least ten years. It didn't start > with Dubya by any means. Oh, yeah, I know. There's been concern about how to finance Social Security for a long time, which has resulted in some things being tried on a small scale, such as the things you mentioned. > But if there is this problem of the funds running > out that they have been hammering us about for the past several years, then > what is the solution? I don't know the answer to that, and definitely some solutions need to be found. I just hope any changes made truly benefit the majority of people, and not just (or firstly) the campaign contributors/banking industry, especially if the changes are to the basic structure of the program. With Dubya and the Republicans in office I don't trust that the interests of the majority of Americans are of most importance. And, yes, if Democrats were talking about changing SS drastically, I'd be wary and watchful too, although not as distrustful of their motives. Debra Shea ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 1 Aug 2001 00:35:27 -0700 From: "Kakki" Subject: Re: Social Security Taxes / Privitization - NJC > With Dubya and the Republicans in office I don't trust that the interests of > the majority of Americans are of most importance. And, yes, if Democrats were > talking about changing SS drastically, I'd be wary and watchful too, although > not as distrustful of their motives. An honest answer, but it makes me sad that you lump all Republicans in together. They really are not a one-note, one agenda party and if you look around you, they are more often than not the working class people and not the multi-millionaires. Many statistics tell us that many working poor immigrants coming into the country are Republicans. Look at all the Hollywood and entertainment industry billionaires, look at Bill Gates, Warren Buffet and many of the others - they are all ardent Democrats. And "Republicans" vary from region to region in the U.S. A California Republican would probably be considered a liberal Democrat in many other states, just as a Democrat in the south states might be considered as much of a Republican as anything in the northeast. Kakki ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 01 Aug 2001 10:21:10 +0100 From: colin Subject: Re: REALLY "Ape"-alled njc This was a good read and giggle. thanks JImmy. We no longer go to the cinema either-too much hassle and full fo people who do not know how to beahev themselves. The last time a group of women(not teens) chatted and after 45 mins I asked them, politely, to be quiet and got a mouthful of abuse! We bought a 32" wide screen tv and a dvd and the I hooked it up to 6 large speakers. We swticth the lights off and we have our own cinema. When we brought the TV home and put it in the lounge in it's place, we realised half the screen was blocked by the lounge door. So our lounge does not have a door now. In fact we have few doors and use baby gates for dog reasons.(it is fun here right now as Doris is having her first season and Brad and Mitchell have to be kept away from her! Brad is really going to be pleased come october cos Mitchell will lose his virginity to Martha and Brad aint getting any for at least another year or so!) A moan about blockbusters: they have taken over here and we have no choice but use them. Now they have this silly policy of having loads of copies of the top ten films. This means we no longer have a good selection of movies. Although we didmange to rent their only copy of Flawless last week. Excellent film. But otherwise it is Blood and Guts 5 or Sex 7 and such like. So much for competion giving more choice. bw colin ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 01 Aug 2001 10:36:38 +0100 From: colin Subject: sounthern liberals NJC > just as a Democrat in the south states might be considered as much > of a Republican as anything in the northeast. We recently had visitors from tennesse. they described themselves as liberals. John and I both thought 'if these people are liberals what the hell would the right wingers be like?'!!!!! They were nice people, polite and esy to talk with, especially loved their accents but on a deeper level found them rather scary. They found it necessary to talk about us as a couple and said how different we were from other gay people-who of course have sex with 20 different people a day. And believe it or not, I kep quiet. They were only here a couple of days so it wasn't worth the aggro and besides which, it wouldn't have achieved anything. Oh and he also told me of his shotguns and how in his neighbourhood they used them if people got too rowdy. Then they graciously invited me over to Tennesee for a stay with them. I can't wait...... > > > Kakki - -- bw colin DAK,BRO GC, 950i 940,860,864, 260, 890,Silver 830 and 270, Passap 6000 Duo80 colin@tantra-apso.com http://www.tantra-apso.com ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 01 Aug 2001 02:35:32 -0700 From: "Robert Holliston" Subject: JMDL as an American list (njc) Hey everybody, I've been reading and deleting a lot lately, as I have from time to time for the last three years. I sometimes wonder if we should establish a second, non-American JMDL. Every time there's a political skirmish, it's about American politics. I remember during the Monica Lewinsky/Bill Clinton scandal when Colin from England made a supportive comment about Chelsea and was told to mind his own business by Mark D. from Chicago (it's in the archives). About the latest question: why didn't we all support Debra Shea? Well, I've met and liked Debra Shea. I've also met and liked Kakki. I've also appreciated some of Marcel Deste's posts. But all of the arguments revolved around American politics, upon which I, as a Canadian, feel I have no right to comment. So, Marcel, Debra, Kakki: please understand that many of us aren't American. Our opinion isn't valued here on the list. No doubt our future is determined by American politics, as the USA is the strongest country in the world. But, believe me, we're different, and will remain so. I've been wondering why nobody else mentioned this but I guess we non-Americans are a real minority. So, I'll tell you my real feeling. I don't care at all who you Americans elect. I don't even care who my fellow Canadians elected. Those of us who work in the arts will continue to fight for what we need, and it will always be a struggle. Roberto ps. A few months ago I had the great pleasure of meeting Steve Dulson (Happy Birthday, Steve!!). He'll probably disapprove of what I'm doing here - intervening in a political thread - but something tells me I'll have his support. _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 1 Aug 2001 10:45:17 +0100 (GMT Daylight Time) From: "colin" Subject: flawless/republicans NJC There was a brilliant scene in Flawless about gay republicans. I think it makes it clear why many gay people are not right wing, don't trust them, fear them, etc. Of course they are gay republicans just as there are gay Tories but you will find the majority are not. bw colin ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 1 Aug 2001 10:55:34 +0100 (GMT Daylight Time) From: "colin" Subject: Re: JMDL as an American list (njc) No doubt our future is determined by American politics, as the USA is the strongest country in the world. But, believe me, we're different, and will remain so. I've been wondering why nobody else mentioned this but I guess we non-Americans are a real minority. Roberto-I guess mybinterest is to do with the fact of A,merica's power. I must admit I hadn't noticed what you have pointed out or rather I just took it for granted that the list is America-centric. I have found Americnas in genral are. It seems very little of the outside of world filters thru. I amure it does to some people but I get the impression that the woorld outside America is not important. It is understandable-it is a huge country. It was the same when I lived in Australia. bw colin ps hope you are well and id I reply to your private meail the other day? If not, I amssorry-oi did get it and was plesased to hear from you. Hopefully you will manage to get over here soon. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 1 Aug 2001 21:51:09 +1200 From: "hell" Subject: Re: july 31!!!!!!!!!!! njc Jimmy wrote: > Geesh, is there something about eating turkey that increases the sex drive? > All these end of July birthdays and you know the conception took place around > Thanksgiving time! Well, we don't celebrate Thanksgiving over here, so that theory doesn't work! I do have my own theory, though. I suspect my parents were celebrating my brother's 5th birthday (at the end of October) and the fact that he would be starting school the next day, ie. they'd have 6 hours of peace every day! Hell ____________________________ "To have great poets, there must be great audiences too." - Walt Whitman hell@ihug.co.nz Hell's Personal Photo Page: http://homepages.ihug.co.nz/~hell/main/personal.htm Visit the NBLs (Natural Born Losers) at: http://www.nbls.co.nz ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 1 Aug 2001 22:06:54 +1200 From: "hell" Subject: Re: "Ape"-alled njc Kerry wrote: > Since there has been a discussion of children's issues lately, I wanted to > vent about something else concerning kids. We went to see "Planet of the > Apes" last weekend and there were people in the theater with their 2 and 3 > year old kids! I remember being afraid of the flying monkeys in "The Wizard > of Oz" and these were 50X scarier! I just wonder how these movies affect > young kids, who can't really separate reality from fantasy yet. When I was > teaching, I could not believe the disgusting movies my kids had already seen > at the age of 3 & 4. What are people thinking???? I know what you mean. We have a TV show here called "Target" (probably a UK or US rip-off!) but they quite often secretly film under-age kids trying to purchase goods, or enter premises where an age-limit applies. It's incredible how many store owners etc. just turn a blind eye, which I think is symptomatic of the whole problem. I know we've had these kinds of discussions before about what kids should be exposed to, and when, but it's still a scary subject. I was heartened somewhat by comments by two prominent people in the movie business. Steven Spielberg said that his kids were really mad at him for making Jurassic Park age-rated, because they were too young to go - and he stuck to his word, and they didn't get to see it until they were old enough. James Belushi made a comment about how he started making more "family" movies because he wanted his kids to be able to see him doing his job! Hell ____________________________ "To have great poets, there must be great audiences too." - Walt Whitman hell@ihug.co.nz Hell's Personal Photo Page: http://homepages.ihug.co.nz/~hell/main/personal.htm Visit the NBLs (Natural Born Losers) at: http://www.nbls.co.nz ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 1 Aug 2001 22:18:03 +1200 From: "hell" Subject: Re: REALLY "Ape"-alled njc Colin wrote: > A moan about blockbusters: they have taken over here and we have no choice but > use them. Now they have this silly policy of having loads of copies of the top > ten films. This means we no longer have a good selection of movies. Although we > didmange to rent their only copy of Flawless last week. Excellent film. But > otherwise it is Blood and Guts 5 or Sex 7 and such like. So much for competion > giving more choice. I know what you mean. We have the same problem here with our video stores. Luckily Auckland has a wonderful store called Videon which has a huge catalogue. They have very few of the latest releases, but have every "classic" and "festival" movie you can think of! Recent movies I've rented from them, or am going to rent (which I haven't been able to find anywhere else): Personal Best; All About Eve; Arsenic & Old Lace; Who's Afraid Of Virgina Woolf?; Come Back to the 5 & Dime Jimmy Dean, Jimmy Dean. They also have lots of TV series, for example, they have most of the Prime Suspect (Helen Mirren) series. Now I just have to find the time - which I suspect will be "post-Jonifest"! Hell ____________________________ "To have great poets, there must be great audiences too." - Walt Whitman hell@ihug.co.nz Hell's Personal Photo Page: http://homepages.ihug.co.nz/~hell/main/personal.htm Visit the NBLs (Natural Born Losers) at: http://www.nbls.co.nz ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 1 Aug 2001 22:19:32 +1200 From: "hell" Subject: Re: and sometimes there'll be sorrow. njc, long Mags wrote: > hey....there's nothing wrong with sharing your sorrow with us. That is the > beauty of this list. That is what makes us 'us'. God, don't get me started! > looking so forward to seeing everyone in just a few weeks. Me too, like you wouldn't believe! I can't wait to get out of this country! Hell ____________________________ "To have great poets, there must be great audiences too." - Walt Whitman hell@ihug.co.nz Hell's Personal Photo Page: http://homepages.ihug.co.nz/~hell/main/personal.htm Visit the NBLs (Natural Born Losers) at: http://www.nbls.co.nz ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 01 Aug 2001 04:19:31 -0700 From: "J. R. Mills" Subject: Re: JMDL as an American list (njc) > Hey everybody, > I've been reading and deleting a lot lately, as I have from time to time for > the last three years. I sometimes wonder if we should establish a second, > non-American JMDL. > Every time there's a political skirmish, it's about American politics. Dear Roberto, Your question is an interesting one, but surely you're being rhetorical. Aren't you? Why stop at just a non-American JMDL? Would you as a Canadian be any more intrigued by discussions of the politics of, say, Great Britain, Australia, South Africa or New Zealand? Would your interest be piqued by tete-a-tete regarding the political/economic situation in Argentina that has so dramatically affected stock trading globally? We began to scratch the surface of Canadian political goings on in a thread a short while ago, but if I read you correctly, it's discussion of politics in general that you're disinterested in, right? I for one am all for more discussion centered on Canada. After all, Joni's genesis is there. Indeed, I'm just now recovering from the chagrin of erroneously attributing the boorish statement about being afraid of being boiled by "natives" in Africa to the Canadian Prime Minister, rather than the mayor of Toronto. I'd be an apt pupil of enlightening discussion of Canadian Political Science and an even more avid reader of JMDL skirmishes surrounding Canadian Arts and Sciences. I have much to learn. I can't imagine valuing the opinion of anyone higher than I value yours, Roberto. I mean this sincerely. > I remember during the Monica Lewinsky/Bill Clinton scandal when Colin from > England made a supportive comment about Chelsea and was told to mind his own > business by Mark D. from Chicago (it's in the archives). That was naughty of Mark D., if so. But he wasn't speaking for *this* American or the List in general. I welcome Colin's comments, as I do those of JMDLers from all quarters, especially when he speaks in support of the Clintons, whom I admire greatly. > I've been wondering why nobody else mentioned this but I guess we > non-Americans are a real minority. Yes, and being a minority is often a "tough row to hoe" (Which is probably an Americanism. What would be the Canadian colloquial equivalent, I wonder?). Shall we therefore have an African-American JMDL and a Jewish JMDL and a Japanese JMDL and a Gay JMDL? >Those of us who > work in the arts will continue to fight for what we need, and it will always > be a struggle. Please explain this struggle centered on the arts, Roberto. I'm ready to support you in it. - -Julius ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 1 Aug 2001 07:25:27 -0400 From: "Victor Johnson" Subject: Re: JMDL as an American list (njc) > So, I'll tell you my real feeling. I don't care at all who you Americans > elect. I don't even care who my fellow Canadians elected. Those of us who > work in the arts will continue to fight for what we need, and it will always > be a struggle. > I don't care much for politics either and generally stay out of the political discussions. Being an artist definately seems like a major struggle these days! Victor, half Scandinavian and half Georgia blender, with a little Nordic melancholy ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 01 Aug 2001 08:10:13 EDT From: SCJoniGuy@aol.com Subject: Re: CKUA FM Alberta <> Nice work, Shane! I hope your efforts bear fruit, wouldn't that be something!?! Bob, who doesn't have QUITE enough Joni...yet! NP: Mingus Dynasty, "A Chair In The Sky" (SO nice!) ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 01 Aug 2001 08:15:14 EDT From: SCJoniGuy@aol.com Subject: Re: njc: "Judy's and my hit" and 45's and Australia <> Old 45's CAN be worth a lot, Bob, just like that penny on your dresser could net you a couple grand if it's a 1909 S-VDB! Assuming that the records are in good shape, clean and sleeved, the best way to maximize the sale would be through E-Bay. If you're not interested in setting up an account, I'll be glad to sell them for you through my own. We can talk about it at Jonifest if you're interested. Otherwise, there are a couple of on-line record dealers who would probably buy them from you. Bob NP: Fareed Haque, "Woodstock" ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 1 Aug 2001 07:37:57 -0500 From: "kerry" Subject: REALLY "Ape"-alled njc >>Still, it just wasn't the same as the original with the then burly Charlton Heston in his loin cloth saying "DAMN YOU!!!!">> Did you notice that Charlton played the old dying monkey, who was warning his son about the past and how much damage GUNS did to the world???? Hmmmmm...... Your post was too funny. I love going to movies, but I'm having more problems enjoying them with other people around. When I went to see Moulin Rouge, there was a group of older women next to me who talked through the whole thing. They kept saying things like, "This stinks!" and "They didn't have to write any dialog, just use old songs!" I wanted to scream, "You don't have to stay if you don't like it!!!!!" but I try to respect my elders. >>The movie was okay, and the makeup on "POTA-2001" was very good. >> I agree and I hardly ever notice make-up!!!! ;>) Kerry ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 1 Aug 2001 08:36:22 EDT From: Bobsart48@aol.com Subject: Re: Social Security Taxes / Privitization - NJC Debra wrote: "I especially like the information about the benefit to families. I didn't realize that. It's obviously a complex program and the idea of it being turned into a money-making venture for the wealthy bankers to the detriment of hard-working wage earners sickens me". Yes, in addition to "Old Age" benefits to workers and to 'non-working' spouses, Social Security (OASDI - Old Age, Survivors and Disability Insurance) provides income benefits to workers, spouses and children in the event of the worker's death or disability prior to retirement age, which cannot be replicated with individual accounts. Now these other programs could be funded with part of the tax going to individual accounts, of course, which is what is being proposed, I believe. Also, there are transition rules proposed to take care of those who will not have time to develop individual accounts of substance by retirement age. But this does not cover two key points: 1. The "progressive" or "socialist" aspect of the program I described earlier would disappear, which modest 'socialist' bent currently takes some of the sting out of certain economic problems we have with the really low paid in our high-priced society, and 2. The social insurance value (whereby the actuarial gain arising from those who die before they receive benefits equal to the taxes they put in is spent on those who live longer than expected) is lost, with the remaining accounts of those who die transferred at death to their direct heirs - in some cases, the state ? - instead. This dissipation of funds increases the overall social costs of the program. And, those who live to an old age are likely to outlive the accounts they built up. Not a sound idea, really. Yes, we are agreeing on this issue. I guess not all of us are all bad ;-) Conservative Grandpa Bob S ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 01 Aug 2001 08:40:53 -0400 From: Jerry Notaro Subject: Re: flawless/republicans NJC colin wrote: > There was a brilliant scene in Flawless about gay republicans. I think it > makes it clear why many gay people are not right wing, don't trust them, > fear them, etc. > Of course they are gay republicans just as there are gay Tories but you will > find the majority are not. Colin, I really liked Flawless but it did not do well here in the States. Gay Republicans are organized here as The Log Cabin Club. Jerry ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 01 Aug 2001 13:57:33 +0100 From: colin Subject: Re: REALLY "Ape"-alled njc > for example, they have most of the Prime Suspect > (Helen Mirren) series. excellent series. i had quite a crush on Ms Mirren in this series. then I saw her interviewd and was so disappointed! Nothin like her character at all! of course I should have know that and it just goes to show what a fine actress she is. In real life she was more girly and cam across as insecure. > > > Now I just have to find the time - which I suspect will be "post-Jonifest"! > > Hell > ____________________________ > "To have great poets, there must be > great audiences too." - Walt Whitman > > hell@ihug.co.nz > Hell's Personal Photo Page: > http://homepages.ihug.co.nz/~hell/main/personal.htm > > Visit the NBLs (Natural Born Losers) at: > http://www.nbls.co.nz - -- bw colin DAK,BRO GC, 950i 940,860,864, 260, 890,Silver 830 and 270, Passap 6000 Duo80 colin@tantra-apso.com http://www.tantra-apso.com ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 01 Aug 2001 08:53:51 -0400 From: Jerry Notaro Subject: Re: JMDL as an American list (njc) Robert Holliston wrote: > Hey everybody, > I've been reading and deleting a lot lately, as I have from time to time for > the last three years. I sometimes wonder if we should establish a second, > non-American JMDL. What a mistake that would be. Contributions from from everyone make this the list it is. > > Every time there's a political skirmish, it's about American politics. > I remember during the Monica Lewinsky/Bill Clinton scandal when Colin from > England made a supportive comment about Chelsea and was told to mind his own > business by Mark D. from Chicago (it's in the archives). > About the latest question: why didn't we all support Debra Shea? Well, I've > met and liked Debra Shea. I've also met and liked Kakki. > I've also appreciated some of Marcel Deste's posts. > But all of the arguments revolved around American politics, upon which I, as > a Canadian, feel I have no right to comment. How non Joni-like. Joni has always been quite open about American politics. And Thank God for that. Even though The Fiddle and the Drum is not a favorite of listmembers, I was very appreciative of this incisive anti-war song during the Vietnam War years. > > > So, Marcel, Debra, Kakki: please understand that many of us aren't American. > Our opinion isn't valued here on the list. Not at all true. One person from Chicago does not a list's opinion make. > No doubt our future is determined > by American politics, as the USA is the strongest country in the world. But, > believe me, we're different, and will remain so. And that is the way it should be. Although when I travel outside the U.S. it pains me to see how much like us they strive to be. Sure the U.S. is rich and powerful, but big problems follow. > > > I've been wondering why nobody else mentioned this but I guess we > non-Americans are a real minority. But growing! Please keep posing your opinions. That is how we continue to grow. NP: Jane Monheit: Over the Rainbow ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 01 Aug 2001 08:55:30 -0400 From: Jerry Notaro Subject: Re: JMDL Digest V2001 #322 NJoachim@aol.com wrote: > Is Joni singing anywhere this summer? Help me find her singing. Nancy Well, if you find her, let us know! Jerry ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 01 Aug 2001 14:03:09 +0100 From: colin Subject: Re: flawless/republicans NJC > Colin, > > I really liked Flawless but it did not do well here in the States. It didn't do well here either. I wouldn't expect such a good intelligent film to do well anywhere especially sonsideing the subject which i thought was very clever and very well done. The tranny guy was really very good as was de Niro(who is not my favourite actor-probably cos I don't care for the type of film I rememeber him for like raging Bull and Taxi(?)) > Gay > Republicans are organized here as The Log Cabin Club. why this name? bw colin > > > Jerry - -- bw colin DAK,BRO GC, 950i 940,860,864, 260, 890,Silver 830 and 270, Passap 6000 Duo80 colin@tantra-apso.com http://www.tantra-apso.com ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 1 Aug 2001 08:00:04 -0500 From: "kerry" Subject: Sometimes there'll be sorrow Hi Mags, This popped into my head last night when I couldn't sleep. Remember Joni's quote from the Saskatoon exhibit?: "I sing my sorrow and paint my joy." One more to add to your collection. Kerry (1 month to the FEST!!!!!!!!) ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 01 Aug 2001 09:18:15 EDT From: Reuben3rd@aol.com Subject: Re: JMDL as an American list (njc) Colin says: >>I must admit I hadn't noticed what you have pointed out or rather I just took it for granted that the list is America-centric. I have found Americnas in genral are. It seems very little of the outside of world filters thru. I amure it does to some people but I get the impression that the woorld outside America is not important. It is understandable-it is a huge country. It was the same when I lived in Australia.>> I noticed this too, when I lived in the UK for a while. I think that the sheer size of the US accounts for some of this...we don't have a lot of first hand experience with anything that isn't filtered throught the US (I realize that this is a generalization, but it kind of makes sense to me.) Reuben ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 01 Aug 2001 09:19:37 -0400 From: Jerry Notaro Subject: Re: flawless/republicans NJC colin wrote: > >> Gay > > Republicans are organized here as The Log Cabin Club. > > why this name? > bw > colin To remind us that Abraham Lincoln was a Republican. For more information go to: http://www.lcr.org/ Jerry ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 01 Aug 2001 09:30:16 -0400 From: Mags Subject: Re: JMDL as an American list (njc) Julius wrote: > > <> As a Canadian, I am thrilled to read this statement of yours Julius. That said, in my ever so humble opinion, it is understandable that the political discussions on this list are centred around American systems, no doubt due to the fact that so many of our list members do in fact reside south of the Canadian border. Personally, I have been hanging onto every word, devouring all that is said in this vast political forum in preparation for my taking up residence south of aforementioned border. > > > Roberto wrote: > <<>Those of us who > > work in the arts will continue to fight for what we need, and it will > always > > be a struggle.>> and then Julius: > < support you in it.>> and now me: I usually dont like to open up this can of worms, however, if you are an artist/writer/dancer/musician in this country...you'd better damn well be able to come up with money on your own because the arts are undervalued, in my most humble opinion. Hint: where does Joni reside? Mags. > > npimh: the star spangled banner ;-P - -- And this loving is a drawing close, a tuning in, an opening. Until one perfect moment; but how can it be expressed? A receiving, an enfolding as I cradle you in my arms. Within my heart, within my soul, You are my true love. --Lui Collins - --- _~O / /\_, ___/\ /_ ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 01 Aug 2001 09:37:04 EDT From: Whizzboom@aol.com Subject: Automatic Download Managers? NJC Greetings, Since I've done so well asking the group for software suggestions in the past (really, no sarcasm here...), I've got another... I'm looking for a download manager that will work automatically, file by file, so that I can just set it up to save a bunch of stuff and walk away. Dows it exist? I got 'Download Wonder', and it seems like a great program, but I can't fgiure out how to get it to do what I need. Any suggestions? Thanks, Chris (who's got a 10th row center ticket for Shawn's solo show here in Boston tonight...YES,DUDE!) ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 1 Aug 2001 10:47:20 EDT From: Dflahm@aol.com Subject: Re: JMDL as an American list (njc) I wholeheartedly endorse what you said in this post, Jerry. DAVID LAHM ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 1 Aug 2001 09:54:12 -0600 From: "shane mattison" Subject: joni touring, other touring hi nancy, the answer is in http://www.pollstar.com/ which will always give you the touring schedules of up to 7,000 recording artists! as it says, joni is not currently on tour... all the best in your searches... shane ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 01 Aug 2001 11:57:35 EDT From: MDESTE1@aol.com Subject: Re: Social Security Taxes / Privitization - NJC The entire issue of privatisation is simple. Today the SSi tax is 7.5% of the payroll up to 84k (i think thats the cut off). The employer pays another 7.5%. thats 15% of incomes goes to ssi. If a person makes 40,000 that means that 6,000 per year is placed "in trust" for that persons retirement income (theoretically). If a person only makes $20,000 it would be $3000. lets work with those numbers. The SSI Commission is recommending that 2% of the 15% instead of going into a bankrupt system that the congress people long ago began to tap for many other purposes (which is why it is broke and why they cant be trusted)would go into "private accounts" which means that they would be beyond the reach of Congress' hungry hands. Now take this guy who makes 20k. If he is 25 and he only made the 20k his whole life and that 2% went into his private account and he worked until 65 at that same job (unlikely but lets roll with it) it would mean he would have $400 per year for 45 years being se! t aside and beyond the reach of those grubby congresspeople and waiting there just for him. Ok so what happens to that $400. well compounding at 7% (long term treasuries) it doubles in 10 years. So that first $400 becomes 800 at 35, 1600 at 45, 3200 at 55, and 6400 at 65. But thats only the first year and the money is only in treasuries (not the pockets of the baby eating wealthy bankers for the uninformed and biased).{{special note: "uninformed and biased" is not calling someone names when it is a fact so easily proven}} So the second year another $400. It grows into $6375. So after 45 years this person who never makes more than $20,000 a year will have about $250,000 that actually is waiting for him/her just beyond the reach of Tom Daschle but for that persons needs. Now $250,000 if it earns 7% (again in treasuries and not the hands of "wealthy baby eating old people starving bankers") earns $17,500 per year. These accounts would be untouchable and thats the big good thing. It has to be assumed that people! will actually be able to put aw ay alot more. Some calculations reveal that the average worker would have over 1 million dollars in their "private accounts". Now if the market could be used in the form of index funds which simply track the overall stock market that same person averageing 40,000-60,000 in income would have at the 8-10% historical average for the S&P over 3 million dollars EACH.Think about that. The same people now looking forward to 650/mo or $1200/ mo if married would have 3 million waiting for them and their needs instead of begging Richard Gephart for another hundred bucks. Gee what a revelation this must be for some who all this time thought it was a plot to steal money from the poor by "wealthy bankers". It isnt, its a "plot" to keep the money out of the hands of those politicians who could give a rats ass about the common people (you know like Gary Condit and the other guy who disliked poeople who live in trailer parks) and only need their money to bribe voting blocks with largesse in ! their districts or to extort by threatening to take away money from them that they have grown to depend on. People who are sceptical of the privatization of Social Security simply stated insult themselves but they dont know it. They are so bamboozled by politicians into thinking that the money is safer being trusted to Congressmen (especially those who want to keep funnelling their money down special interest rat holes to get reelected) than kept sequestered for their own interest, that it would be funny if it wasnt so sad. But then again thats how certain people get elected. They still BELIEVE them after all these years and all the proof they have been lied to (see HUD). marcel deste ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 01 Aug 2001 13:02:15 -0500 From: James Leahy Subject: Toronto event (whatever it's called) For some background on the upcoming Toronto event go to: http://www.GlobeAndMail.CA/servlet/GIS.Servlets.HTMLTemplate?tf=tgam/search/tgam/SearchFullStory.html&cf=tgam/search/tgam/SearchFullStory.cfg&configFileLoc=tgam/config&encoded_keywords=joni+mitchell&option=&start_row=1¤t_row=1&start_row_offset1=&num_rows=1&search_results_start=1 Excuse the huge URL. Some Toronto gossip: Joni was spotted having dinner at Il Posto, a trendy restaurant in the downtown Yorkville area some weeks ago. She was also spotted having drinks with Lou Adler. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 1 Aug 2001 14:31:24 -0300 From: "Wally Kairuz" Subject: mirren njc oh yes!!!!! big helen mirren fan here! why, the only reason i see greenaway movies is to see mirren. prime suspect was huge here. it reran forever. and i also had a big crush on mirren! is it something gay? and i love her accent and the way she says ''shit''. wallyk - -----Mensaje original----- De: owner-joni@jmdl.com [mailto:owner-joni@jmdl.com]En nombre de colin Enviado el: Miircoles, 01 de Agosto de 2001 09:58 a.m. Para: hell CC: FMYFL@aol.com; joni@smoe.org Asunto: Re: REALLY "Ape"-alled njc > for example, they have most of the Prime Suspect > (Helen Mirren) series. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 1 Aug 2001 10:45:57 -0700 (PDT) From: Alison E Subject: Re: july 31!!!!!!!!!!! njc - --- Mark or Travis wrote: > >HAAPPYYYYY > >B I R T H D A Y ! ! ! ! > > > Steve Dulson! a day late and a dollar short as usual, i'd like to wish the lovely mr. steve dulson a very happy birthday! i hope you got to dance some irish jigs! alison e. in nyc Make international calls for as low as $.04/minute with Yahoo! Messenger http://phonecard.yahoo.com/ ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 01 Aug 2001 13:44:49 EDT From: SCJoniGuy@aol.com Subject: Covers, Volume 20 Has it been another month already? Yes, it must be, because that goofball Bob has another covers CD ready to unleash on the world! So, without further ado, hubbub, or political rhetoric, here is Volume 20 in the burgeoning, wild, wacky world of Joni covers...it's subtitled "All That Jazz", but it could have been called "For the Lactose Intolerant", because there's nary a bit o' cheese to be found. This volume is dedicated to great jazz covers of Joni's stuff, and frankly I think the whole damn thing is sensational! Here's what's on it: 1. Mingus Dynasty - Sweet Sucker Dance 2. Mingus Dynasty - The Dry Cleaner From Des Moines 3. Mingus Dynasty - Goodbye Pork Pie Hat 4. Mingus Dynasty - A Chair In The Sky 5. Fareed Haque - Woodstock 6. Marc Copland & Tim Hagans - Rainy Night House 7. Benny Goodman - Both Sides Now 8. The Joe Locke Quintet - Blue 9. Ian Shaw & Cedar Walton - Furry Sings The Blues 10. Jon Jang - All I Want 11. Dave Douglas - Same Situation 12. Dave Douglas - My Old Man I know what you're thinking..."Bob, you crazy bitch, you usually give us 18 or 19 tracks on a CD, now you're just putting out 12!! You're ripping me off, man!" Rest assured that's not the case...you know these jazzers, once they get wound up it's sometimes hard to get 'em to clam up 'til they've played for 8 or 9 minutes, but this one is also 74 minutes long and then some...some outstanding guitars, trumpets, saxes, keyboards, and others! And ALL of these tracks are excellent...I find that this disc just flows really well. There's lots more great Joni jazz on future volumes, but I thought I'd put together one special one, just for the hell of it! If you're interested in a copy of this or any other covers volume, lemme know and I'll hook you up. Euro's, Mr. van Tiel informs me that he is loaded and ready to burn, so contact him at john.van.tiel@wxs.nl and keep him busy so he doesn't spend all his time mooning and swooning! ;~) And yes, I'll be giving a copy away, so stay tuned for that... Bob NP: Bruce, "Night" ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 1 Aug 2001 11:09:28 -0700 (PDT) From: Don Rowe Subject: Re: JMDL as an American list (njc, APC, SOAPMBFTJMDLA)) In our continuing efforts to correctly parse the diversity of content here on the jmdl, please make note of the following message minders: AAC -- All American Content. Please use this minder for any high-school/college sports related topics as well. SAC -- Some American Content MAC -- Mostly American Content. Please also use this minder for any posts polling favorite fast foods. APC -- American Political Content ACC -- American Conservative Content ALC -- American Liberal Content AMC -- American Moderate Content JPMP -- Just Plain Mean Post BOAPMBPTJMDLA -- Better Off As Private Message But Posted to JMDL Anyway SOAPMBFTJMDLA -- Started Out As Private Message But Forwarded To JMDL Accidentally We hope that these new message minders will help clear up any recent difficulties, misunderstandings, international puzzlement, and/or general ennui. Don Rowe ===== Visit me anytime at http://www.mp3.com/donrowe Make international calls for as low as $.04/minute with Yahoo! Messenger http://phonecard.yahoo.com/ ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 1 Aug 2001 14:23:35 EDT From: Monafitz@aol.com Subject: Query: Case of You Does anyone know if Diana Krall's version of A Case of You has been transcribed for piano? If so where? Cheers, Monafitz Mona A. Fitzgerald monafitz@aol.com ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 01 Aug 2001 14:44:10 -0400 From: dsk Subject: Re: What happened? NJC The end This situation has become very confusing, and unfortunately has caused people to bicker now among themselves, taking it even farther from the original issue. The simple part is: no more private emails from Marcel; any that I receive will be forwarded to the list (and not to get comments on, but only because there's a huge difference between what I've received privately and what he posts to the list, so if they're all going to the list I'd expect the tone to be decent). That's pretty clear. Like Sherelle says, the situation is one that people who've been on the list for a while have seen several times, usually when there's a heated discussion about something else going on, so it's very hard to sort out the unwanted private email issue then. There's never been an adequate solution to the problem -- obviously not, since I still kept getting nasty unwanted emails. After posting my "plan", I received several supportive messages privately, and appreciate them all, and if the exchange between Marcel and myself was all there was it would have finished with that. The confusion and my negative feelings started with seeing a subject line of "expose the bitch" referring to me (I thought). When no one publicly said even a "what is this?" to it, it felt awful hanging out there with no public support at all, like being so rudely insulted is ok with everybody. And then I thought back and all of a sudden it seemed strange only a couple of people had commented publicly on Marcel's posts, as though, again, his behavior is fine with everyone. It seemed the consensus was that it was wrong of me to have openly addressed the email issue at all, which is very strange considering the number of people on the list who have had the very same problem over the years. Very unhealthy, I think, that we just keep working around the situation or tolerating it privately instead of looking at it. Anyway, it's helpful now to read people's comments about how Thom's message looked to them, and I can see how it would be so confusing people didn't know how to respond. I was confused too, and thought it was a message that was supposed to go directly to Marcel and was sent to the list by mistake. I still think of bitch as being directed toward women. If the subject line had said bastard my assumption would have been different. My use of slang needs updating apparently. As Mark says, there are times when someone says something provocative just to get a heated thread started, and then it's a good idea to keep quiet, and hope no one joins in what's been set up to become a battle. This wasn't impersonal, though, and yes, I can defend myself, but I was starting to wonder whether I really was the only person (except for Pat) who thought there was something wrong with Thom's post (and with Marcel's behavior). I'm trying to imagine what my response would have been if someone else was the target, and it's hard to know for sure... I hope I would have said something but more likely would also have been confused by the entire situation, or felt conflicting loyalties, and not even known how or where to jump in and then a day or two passes and it all just goes away... until next time. So I'm not scolding anybody and hope it doesn't come across that way. It's been food for thought in many ways. Anyway, I think it's all finished now. I certainly am talked out about it. Thanks, Pat, for your post, and Colin, thanks very much for bringing up another view and offering your support, and for everyone sharing publicly how you saw things, and for all the supportive private messages I received too. I hope it makes it easier for the next person who's in a similar situation. We'll see... the family saga continues... Debra Shea NP: The Pogues, with Kirsty MacColl joining in on "Fairytale in New York". It's wonderful, and something I'd never have known about if I wasn't part of this list. There have been many gifts here. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 1 Aug 2001 14:52:56 EDT From: RoseMJoy@aol.com Subject: Ashara's Scholarship Fund!!! We need your help!!! Sorry for the bandwidth...and the NJC Guys, PLEASE we need your help here pronto! Only 30 days left until the fourth annual JoniFest held in Topsfield, MA by our very gracious, Super Mom, Hostess with the mostess, Ashara Stansfield. There are a few JMDLers who are otherwise unable to attend JoniFest this year because of financial problems and or just a bad turn of luck so we are asking once again for your help. Please find it in your hearts to contribute to this fund even if it is a small amount, don't be embarrassed. Every little bit counts. there has hardly been any response at all to this fund. You may transfer funds directly from your bank account or use a credit card via Paypal. Ashara has an account set up there: http://www.paypal.com/ Click on "send money" And you can send the money to AsharaJM@aol.com Note what the money is for as not to get Ashara confused. I use Paypal all the time for my Ebay purchases and trust me it's secure. I've yet to have a problem. If that doesn't sit well with you, you may mail your contributions directly to Ashara at: Ashara Stansfield P.O. Box 215 Topsfield, MA 01983 USA But please hurry, as Jimmy says: The hour is getting late! And as always we're still accepting contributions for Jim Johanson. A check made out to him sent to Ashara at the above PO Box. You'll be eligible for the Joni stuff giveaways even if you're not present. Thank you so much for your anticipated support. You guys are the greatest! Rose in NJ getting psyched rosemjoy@aol.com ------------------------------ End of JMDL Digest V2001 #324 ***************************** ------- Post messages to the list by clicking here: mailto:joni@smoe.org Unsubscribe by clicking here: mailto:joni-digest-request@smoe.org?body=unsubscribe ------- Siquomb, isn't she?