From: les@jmdl.com (JMDL Digest) To: joni-digest@smoe.org Subject: JMDL Digest V2001 #323 Reply-To: joni@smoe.org Sender: les@jmdl.com Errors-To: les@jmdl.com Precedence: bulk Unsubscribe: mailto:joni-digest-request@smoe.org?body=unsubscribe Archives: http://www.smoe.org/lists/joni Websites: http://www.jmdl.com http://www.jonimitchell.com JMDL Digest Wednesday, August 1 2001 Volume 2001 : Number 323 The Official Joni Mitchell Homepage, created by Wally Breese, can be found at http://www.jonimitchell.com. It contains the latest news, a detailed bio, Original Interviews, essays, lyrics and much much more. The JMDL website can be found at http://www.jmdl.com and contains interviews, articles, the member gallery, archives, and much more. Information on the 4th "Annual" New England JoniFest: http://www.jmdl.com/jfne2001.cfm ========== TOPICS and authors in this Digest: -------- Re: what happened? NJC [colin ] Re: july 26!!!!!!!!!!! (NJC) [colin ] Re: "Ape"-alled njc [colin ] Re: home decorating (NJC) [colin ] njc: "Judy's and my hit" ["Jim L'Hommedieu" ] Re: what happened? NJC (md) [MDESTE1@aol.com] Re: what happened? NJC ["Mark or Travis" ] Re: what happened? NJC ["Mark or Travis" ] Re: july 31!!!!!!!!!!! njc ["Mark or Travis" ] RE: what happened? NJC (md) ["Wally Kairuz" ] CKUA FM Alberta ["shane mattison" ] Re: home decorating (NJC) ["Mark or Travis" ] RE: what happened? NJC ["Wally Kairuz" ] Re: JMDL Digest V2001 #322 [NJoachim@aol.com] Re: njc: "Judy's and my hit" and 45's and Australia [Murphycopy@aol.com] Re: july 31!!!!!!!!!!! njc [Mags ] Re: Social Security Taxes / Privitization - NJC [Bobsart48@aol.com] Re: What happened? NJC [RobSher50@aol.com] Baldfaced self-promotion NJC [FredNow@aol.com] Re: Beyonce NJC [RobSher50@aol.com] Re: Social Security Taxes / Privitization - NJC [dsk Subject: Re: what happened? NJC > On the other hand, any posts from Debra that I've seen > are well-written, thoughtful and thought-provoking > and, whether you agree with her or not, she makes her > point well and without resorting to foul language - > which makes her a winner, as far as I'm concerned. exactly. However, the point I was trying to make, perhaps wrongly, was that it seemed to me that debra had been left out in the cold for quite a while. Not just with the 'bitch' thing but with previous attacks on her. they were all ignored more or less and it appeared like she was on her own. Private support is one thing, but really I think public support in caes like this is better because iwhtout it it looks as if the attacker is the one supported and also, when one reads the archives, that is just how it looks. So whiltst I understand people not wanting to fan the flames, it actually looked like the attacks on debra were being condoned. bw colin > Get your free @yahoo.ca address at http://mail.yahoo.ca - -- bw colin DAK,BRO GC, 950i 940,860,864, 260, 890,Silver 830 and 270, Passap 6000 Duo80 colin@tantra-apso.com http://www.tantra-apso.com ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 01 Aug 2001 00:26:32 +0100 From: colin Subject: Re: july 26!!!!!!!!!!! (NJC) FredNow@aol.com wrote: > Bruyere writes: > > >Bob! You know [Jagger's] not a day over 225! Go ahead .... count the > creases! > > I always thought you counted the rings ... has he more than one then? > > > -Fred - -- bw colin DAK,BRO GC, 950i 940,860,864, 260, 890,Silver 830 and 270, Passap 6000 Duo80 colin@tantra-apso.com http://www.tantra-apso.com ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 01 Aug 2001 00:28:57 +0100 From: colin Subject: Re: "Ape"-alled njc > people > should have to get a licence to have kids it should be mandatory to be gay before you can have kids. Millions of years of str8's having them have shown they can't handle it!!!! Turkey basters would be given out free........ ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 01 Aug 2001 00:30:06 +0100 From: colin Subject: Re: home decorating (NJC) I didn't get this. Most of those interiors were awful........... jan wrote: > http://www.lileks.com/institute/interiors/bhg/index.html - -- bw colin DAK,BRO GC, 950i 940,860,864, 260, 890,Silver 830 and 270, Passap 6000 Duo80 colin@tantra-apso.com http://www.tantra-apso.com ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 31 Jul 2001 19:24:12 -0400 From: "Jim L'Hommedieu" Subject: njc: "Judy's and my hit" Hey Bob Muller, Thought I reply on list to the topic of Judy Collins' 45 rpm version of "Both Sides Now". I mentioned that I found it on 45 and asked if you wanted it for your labor of love, the colossal "Covers" project. I did purchase it but it's completely unusable. It must be about 20% fast! It's ridiculously fast, and therefore high in pitch. No, it's not my table. I heard that some companies cut their 45s fast but I'd never heard one till now. (I know it's not my table 'cause my 45 of the Beach Boys' "Good Vibrations" sounds fine, er _perfect_. :) I'm sure Rega knows how to build a speed pulley!) Anyway, just wanted to "close the loop" as we say in America's Heartland....... Lama ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 31 Jul 2001 19:30:10 -0400 From: "Jim L'Hommedieu" Subject: Re: Entrenched Psalterium 100% jc The other day I suggested Joni as a master of quality lyrics with this: "We are each of us so deep and so (well, you know, don't cha?)" Anyway, my co-worker just blinked and tilted his head like a dog trying to figure out a slide-whistle. Like he was thinking, "Quality lyrics? Whaaaaaat?" hee hee no use casting pearls before (oh, you know....) Lama Preet @Tower Hamlets asked: >>>> Which ones do y'all wax lyrical about that could be useful for our bloodless crusade? >>>> ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 31 Jul 2001 19:15:58 EDT From: FMYFL@aol.com Subject: REALLY "Ape"-alled njc Okay, this has nothing to do with small children viewing PG movies. It's all about me. That's right, it's all about me me me. I have a confession to make to all my friends in JMDL-land. There have been so many good movies made in the past twenty-something years. So why did I at age 45 decide to make my first movie theater experience since "Blazing Saddles" go to "POTA-2001"? (I did that just to make Catherine pissed, since I know she hates acronyms LOL, oops there's another one) I left work early today to see "Planet of the Apes-2001", since a friend had begged me to go. I had been trying to break a record for being the first non-Amish person who had not seen a movie in an actual theater in several years. ( I might be wrong about the Amish part - sorry) I see plenty of movies, but it's always been in the comfort of my own home. I must say, things have REALLY changed!!! We stepped up to the window at the multi-multi-multi-plex theater, and I took out my $2.50 to pay the attendant. She said "We don't except down payments." I couldn't believe that prices were $7.50 !!!!! I couldn't even use my old student I.D. card. I wanted to watch the movie, not *buy* it! So my friend tells me that theaters have changed. They have "stadium" seating. I thought, oh great, that's all I need is to sit in high school bleachers without something to support my back. Worse yet, I thought I might be standing at a fence at some out-of-hand world soccer game waiting to be trampled on. To my surprise, the seats were EXTREMELY comfortable, and I learned what they meant by stadium seating. Still, I looked frantically for the smoking section. What??? They don't have smoking sections anymore??? Oh well, I just ate one to satisfy my addiction. We got comfortable in our seats as the movie began. The surround sound and picture quality of the movie was fantastic. I couldn't believe what I was missing..........until 20 minutes into the movie. Yes, a family of 5 were sitting right behind us with the oldest child being around 12. The problem was the youngest child, about 2yrs old started crying. I asked my friend, "Why don't they take him to the *cry room*?" My friend just laughed and said they haven't had cry rooms in 30 years. It was time for a break. I had to pee and get something to snack on. I looked for the remote control to pause. No fricking remote!!!! $7.50 and no remote!!!! I went to the "disco-like-lobby", and there were no jujubees, goobers, raisonettes, or good-n-plenty's. There was nothing at the snack bar that appealed to me. I begged the snack counter girl to make me a Cosmopolitan or something. NO GO!!! I guess that's why they don't play the old cartoon in the theater "Let's all go to the lobby, let's all go to the lobby, to get ourselves a treat." So I survived the movies. The movie was okay, and the makeup on "POTA-2001" were very good. Still, it just wasn't the same as the original with the then burly Charlton Heston in his loin cloth saying "DAMN YOU!!!!" I guess I'll have to wait for "Blazing Saddles- 2025" to come out next :~) Jimmy ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 31 Jul 2001 19:46:08 -0400 From: "Jim L'Hommedieu" Subject: Happy Birthday, njc Happy Birthday, Steve Dulson. Like my Rega turntable, you're proof that all things British can find a home and flourish in the States. Rock on, Steve. On my way to see jt...... Lama ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 31 Jul 2001 19:58:17 EDT From: MDESTE1@aol.com Subject: Re: what happened? NJC (md) For the record. Not only did I NOT create the title "Expose the Bitch" I have never called anyone a name like that. Have I called someone a liberal. yes. marxist yes if their stated leanings are commensurate with that. By the way I dont think that that is in and of itself a bad thing but its funny how many get miffed when you tell them that they are even when they are by any definition. But to address the question, no, I did not create that title. I did respond to a general post that had that title. I think ThomByrd was the lister who did. As for spankings Wally, my Irish mother made me immune to them. As for Colin he'll probably chastize me for sending this to him against his wishes even though I sent it to "Reply to All". Thats Colin. Marcel ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 31 Jul 2001 17:40:49 -0700 From: "Mark or Travis" Subject: Re: what happened? NJC > so what you're all saying is that marcel called debra a bitch? so who's thom > byrd? i thought it was thom byrd that called marcel a bitch. i'll look into > the archives and if marcel did call debra a bitch, i'll spank him in > topsfield. and he's the kind that wouldn't like it. > wallyK, truthbitch [and i like debra very much too!] I never said that *Marcel* called anyone a bitch. I said that I wasn't sure who it was that Thom Byrd was referring to by saying 'expose the bitch', Marcel or Debra. Wallushka, I don't recall that anyone said that Marcel called anyone a bitch. You need to read more carefully before you pop in & out. Mark in Seattle ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 31 Jul 2001 17:52:00 -0700 From: "Mark or Travis" Subject: Re: what happened? NJC > I agree but sometimes it does a person good to have more concrete support > anyhow. > Point taken. But to tell you the truth, when something like this turns up on the list I hold my breath and hope that nobody takes the bait. In this case, it was hard to tell who the insult was supposed to target so I think a lot of people didn't know how to react to it. I certainly don't think anyone's silence was meant as approval or condoning it. But I do see your point. Neither Debra nor Marcel deserves this kind of slur and it irks me to see that kind of crap on our list. Now I'll shut up about this and hope that it all fades away very, very quickly. Mark in Seattle ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 31 Jul 2001 17:53:30 -0700 From: "Mark or Travis" Subject: Re: july 31!!!!!!!!!!! njc HAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA AAAAAA > AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAPPYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYY YYYYYY > YYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYY > > B I R T H D A Y ! ! ! ! > Happy Birthday, Mr. Dulson-dulcimer man! Hope you have a great one! Mark in Seattle ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 31 Jul 2001 21:58:00 -0300 From: "Wally Kairuz" Subject: RE: what happened? NJC (md) so you see? i was right! that was the wrong bitch. wallyK, rubber padddle idle for the time being. - -----Mensaje original----- De: MDESTE1@aol.com [mailto:MDESTE1@aol.com] Enviado el: Martes, 31 de Julio de 2001 08:58 p.m. Para: colin@tantra-apso.com; wallykai@fibertel.com.ar CC: joni@smoe.org Asunto: Re: what happened? NJC (md) For the record. Not only did I NOT create the title "Expose the Bitch" I have never called anyone a name like that. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 31 Jul 2001 19:27:44 -0600 From: "shane mattison" Subject: CKUA FM Alberta check out Alberta's best radio station (kind of like PBS) CKUA, which boasts: <> i have emailed them asking for details on this 'debut' joni made, likely during her Great Depression coffeehouse days... and if they'll send me a recording... keep you informed... you can listen to CKUA on the internet: http://www.ckua.org/ shane ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 31 Jul 2001 18:19:48 -0700 From: "Mark or Travis" Subject: Re: home decorating (NJC) > http://www.lileks.com/institute/interiors/bhg/index.html > Omigod, this is hilarious! Mark in Seattle ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 31 Jul 2001 22:32:12 -0300 From: "Wally Kairuz" Subject: RE: what happened? NJC you're SO right! i've just realized that there were scads of posts about the bitch issue and that i hadn't read! en fin, my apologies! wallyK, spanking himself... and lovin' it! - -----Mensaje original----- De: Mark or Travis [mailto:mark.travis@gte.net] Enviado el: Martes, 31 de Julio de 2001 09:41 p.m. Para: Wally Kairuz; joni Asunto: Re: what happened? NJC Wallushka, I don't recall that anyone said that Marcel called anyone a bitch. You need to read more carefully before you pop in & out. Mark in Seattle ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 31 Jul 2001 22:27:00 EDT From: NJoachim@aol.com Subject: Re: JMDL Digest V2001 #322 Is Joni singing anywhere this summer? Help me find her singing. Nancy ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 31 Jul 2001 22:51:29 EDT From: Murphycopy@aol.com Subject: Re: njc: "Judy's and my hit" and 45's and Australia In a message dated 7/31/01 6:50:56 PM, jlhommedieu@dmrinteractive.com writes: << the topic of Judy Collins' 45 rpm version of "Both Sides Now". >> Speaking of 45's . . . I drove up to Boston yesterday to load my truck up with some of my friend Sarah's possessions. Now that Boston's property values have gone sky high, she suddenly decided that it was a great time to sell the Beacon Hill condo she has owned for 18 years and move to Australia. (Talk about a mid-life crisis!) Anyway, I thought I was just picking up a few things she had set aside for me - -- pieces of furniture and odds and ends, such as her treasured vintage Divine poster -- but at the last minute, she presented me with a box of her old 45's and suggested that I sell them if I don't want them. Since I have no plans to buy a turntable, I will probably sell them or donate them to a good cause. (I used to make all my clothing, furniture, etc., donations to the homophobic Salvation Army, but not anymore.) My question is, are old 45's worth anything? If so, where would I go about selling them? (I do not intend to become an eBay seller just to get rid of them.) If I'm not going to get rich selling them, can anyone think of a good organization to give them to? (You know, something like the Joni Mitchell Home for Aging Children!) Also, any JMDLers in the Sidney area who would like to meet one of the sweetest and most loving people I have ever known, please contact me off-list. I have known Sarah for 22 years now and I would feel better about her move if I knew that she had a member of my JMDL family in her new life in Australia. Thanks, --Bob ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 31 Jul 2001 23:40:29 -0400 From: Mags Subject: Re: july 31!!!!!!!!!!! njc Catherine McKay wrote: > > < something in turkey, so I've heard, that produces > sleepiness. I wonder if it produces pleasant hormonal > changes that could increase the sex drive - I can't > remember whether seretonin is the "happy" hormone or > the "unhappy" one, but somehow the word "seretonin" is > echoing in my brain when I think of turkey.>> Well Catherine, seems to me that the turkey drug of choice is none other than L-tryptophan (sorry if this is spelled incorrectly). Now that Ive joined the land of the vegetarians...(thanks Mimi)...I wonder if my Tofu dinner will have the same effect? lol Mags np: Tofu in the Straw ;-) ;-))) > > Get your free @yahoo.ca address at http://mail.yahoo.ca - -- And this loving is a drawing close, a tuning in, an opening. Until one perfect moment; but how can it be expressed? A receiving, an enfolding as I cradle you in my arms. Within my heart, within my soul, You are my true love. --Lui Collins - --- _~O / /\_, ___/\ /_ ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 1 Aug 2001 00:33:02 EDT From: Bobsart48@aol.com Subject: Re: Social Security Taxes / Privitization - NJC Debra Shea wrote: "It's especially grating because only wages up to $80,400 are taxed for Social Security, so it's not a program that any of Dubya's pals are putting much money toward. Dubya's main concern with this program will be how he can benefit his wealthy pals and one way is to privatize part of Social Security. So he's been suggesting that very thing. With that, his pals will not only pay a relatively tiny amount of tax they can also make money off of the people paying the most tax. The banking industry will LOVE that!!! " Well, there may be something to the second paragraph above - depending on one's definition of privitzation - but the first paragraph sounds pretty spurious to me. It is true that Social Security taxes in and of themselves are regressive - lower income people pay a larger percentage of their pay than higher income people do. However, the benefit formula is significantly more progressive than the tax is regressive, with the result that Social Security benefits provide a much bigger bang for the buck to those making less than the wage base than for those making more than the wage base. This is especially so for those making much less than the wage base, and for those who work much less than a full (35 - year) career. Now I am a pretty conservative guy, Debra - and, as I confessed once before, an actuary - but I admire the clever structure of our SS system. It goes something like this: The lower paid get a good deal, paying in relatively few dollars and taking out relatively more, but feel good about it since after all they are paying into the system. The higher paid get a relatively bad deal, paying in more dollars than they take out - most of which goes to pay off the past service liabilities of their parents, who created the system and are really taking out a lot more dollars than they ever put in in taxes (they were, after all, the 'greatest generation' ) - but do not really mind getting hosed a bit on this score, since noone likes to see anyone's parents -especially their own - on the street. And they do get something out of the system, after all. The biggest beneficiary of the current Social Security system is the family structure, however, since non-working spouses ( mostly women ) derive benefits from the working spouse. In some cases women get even better benefits based on their limited workforce employment before and after their child raising years (and their part time efforts during such years). To my way of thinking, this is good for all of us, since it produces better balanced kids. Individual accounts cannot come close to replicating this result, and have numerous other flaws and problems as well. A terrible idea, really, IMHO. Now, the trust fund could be invested partly in equities ( a broad market based index without any political tampering could be selected ) to try to enhance the earnings of the trust fund. This would please the investment community less than the individual account approach with 'participant direction' of accounts, of course. And there are many ways of tweaking the system - reducing the COLA, increasing the age for full benefits, etc. - without altering its basic structure. So who's on the presidential commission that is now recommending individual accounts ? Well, to name one name back at you, former NY Dem. Sen. Daniel Patrick Moynihan, who has apparently lost both of his remaining marbles during his brief retirement. But then again, I am not sure whether he gets Social Security benefits - was he ever in the workforce ? And the AP story on this today is just fraught with meaningless statistical citations. Infuriating. But not as annoying as Bush's stance on this issue. Especially in the context I noted above about its importance to the family structure. (See, I was on Gore's side of this issue, but he was just too revolting for me to vote for). So since we both prefer SS the way it is rather than the unwise individual account approach (which is a disaster for women who raise children), let's not pound away at the $80,400 wage base. If you ask for a bigger hosing, we'll end up getting individual accounts. Bob S. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 1 Aug 2001 01:02:09 EDT From: RobSher50@aol.com Subject: Re: What happened? NJC Colin, When I read the post from the "expose the bitch" author, I was ready to throw in but I did not. Frankly, I was confused about what was happening. I couldn't make out if these were private or public emails being shared with the group. When I started reading about her requests for this person to stop emailing her at home, this became a scary situation which we have seen come to fruition on this list before. It got pretty ugly and frightening. I apologize, Debra, for not immediately coming to your verbal aid. It puts all of us, (including yourself) in the precarious situation of not wanting to put you in a position of further harassment or possible harm. Please understand that no one on this list condones this type of rhetoric or the complete disregard for your privacy. We have seen what anger does on this list. It is destructive and devastating. We also know that Les will not allow this type of behavior to continue for long. He has done a fantastic job of protecting this list, and I trust that he will intervene if this continues. He does not have a lot of patience with listers who pose a possible threat to the safety of other listers. Again Debra, please know that we are here for you. To the other lister: Calling someone a bitch is demeaning and degrading under any circumstance. You apparently have a grievance, but please try to find a more civil way to settle it. Sherelle ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 1 Aug 2001 01:21:50 EDT From: FredNow@aol.com Subject: Baldfaced self-promotion NJC Please come on down and dig a gig. Tell your Ma, tell your Pa, tell your Sister Sue. Thanks, Fred Simon *************************** FRED SIMON TRIO will be performing selections from DREAMHOUSE (Naim-cd044) as well as selections from the waking world. This is what some are talking about when they talk about DREAMHOUSE: "[DREAMHOUSE] creates its own dream environment, this trio outing by pianist Simon boasts lovely, restfully unfolding melodies that draw liberally from folk and classical forms." - - Lloyd Sachs, Chicago Sun-Times - 10 best of the year 2000: Chicago's Jazz Greats, January 5, 2001 "DREAMHOUSE  by far the best of the six discs under his own name ... For me, the success of his work depends entirely on his ability to gracefully understate its emotional content  something he does to a T on DREAMHOUSE." - - Neil Tesser, Chicago Reader - Critic's Choice, October 6, 2000 "A truly melodic musician with ambitious vision ... DREAMHOUSE showcases Simon's splendid ability as both a jazz composer and improviser ... With intimate performances on original compositions, Simon reminds us exactly how and why he has survived as a working musician in Chicago for nearly three decades." - - Mitch Myers, New City, October 5, 2000 "Fred Simon is one of Chicago's treasured pianists and a fine composer. He has an original, defined approach to the piano ... and a nice touch. His compositions seem to have something for everyone and although expressing a full range of emotion, they are uplifting to the spirit."  Marshall Vente, Jazz Institute of Chicago, November 2000. "In striving for pure melodic beauty, you run the risk of sentimentality -- or worse. But on [DREAMHOUSE], Chicago pianist Fred Simon bolsters his singing lines with reflective weight ... Spare and restful, never forcing its stylistic hand, the music takes its time to unfold while drawing you to it with its firm rhythmic pulse ... The sound is luminous, drawing out the inner shadows of Simon's originals." - - Lloyd Sachs, Chicago Sun-Times, November 12, 2000 *************************** FRED SIMON TRIO is: Fred Simon - piano, composer Kelly Sill - bass Sarah Allen - drums Saturday, August 4, 2001 8:30 p.m. - 12:30 a.m. Pop's Highwood 214 Greenbay Road, Highwood, IL for information (847) 266.1313 ***BEST IF DRUNK BEFORE DATE ON CARTON*** ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 1 Aug 2001 01:22:44 EDT From: RobSher50@aol.com Subject: Re: Beyonce NJC Randy, I have to agree with you. One of my musician friends and I had a good conversation about this very subject earlier last evening. I told him about the thread we had concerning Pat Metheny slamming Kenny G in a chat room. I later posted a thread where I came right out and stated I didn't think Kenny G was a good jazz musician because he didn't know how to improvise, but that it was my opinion from one musicians viewpoint to another. I explained that musicians tend to be passionate about the subject of music and what constitutes good music. My friend, who apparently knew more about Kenny G than I did, agreed that he didn't like Kenny's style because it was too commercial, and told me to check out an early Jeff Lorber CD (Wizard ...something) because Kenny wails on it. He told me that he could not dispute Kenny's musicianship, just his style. He said that Kenny had "chops." (Another word for ability or talent) He also gave me a bit of advice for someone wanting to join the musical ranks, "Be careful of what you say about people. You never know if it will get back to them." So now I apologize to Kenny G, the unnamed jazz vocalist I said, "Ain't got no soul," and Yanni (Yanni is a big step for me, nevertheless, I make it). If I succeed at what I am trying to do, I may actually work with some of these people. I reflect on one of my favorite song lyrics by Sly and the Family Stone: "Ever catch a falling star, Ain't no stoppin till it's in the ground, Everybody is a star, One big circle goin round and round..." (Ba ba ba ba ba ba ba,,,) Sherelle In a message dated 07/31/2001 4:57:35 PM Pacific Daylight Time, les@jmdl.com writes: > Date: Tue, 31 Jul 2001 11:12:36 -0700 > From: Randy Remote > Subject: Re: Beyonce njc > > Beyonce co-wrote and co-produced Destiny's smash album. > Maybe you don't like their style of music, but that doesn't mean > there is no talent there. The three of them do some nice 3 part > harmonies, too. And that aerobic dancing at the same time. I'm > not moved enough to buy their record, but alot of people are. > I can think of alot of people in this genre who display less talent > and musicality. > The SNL skits were a funny parody of the whole MTV > flavor-of-the-month culture. I bet DC thought so, too. (They > were musical guest on a recent show). > RR ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 01 Aug 2001 03:00:30 -0400 From: dsk Subject: Re: Social Security Taxes / Privitization - NJC Bobsart48@aol.com wrote: > So since we both prefer SS the way it is rather than the unwise individual > account approach (which is a disaster for women who raise children), let's > not pound away at the $80,400 wage base. If you ask for a bigger hosing, > we'll end up getting individual accounts. Hi Bob, No, I wasn't saying the amount of wages taxed for Social Security should be higher. Not at all. The $80,400 for this year seems like too much already, so people paying the maximum will never receive that in payments when they retire, which I think is what you were alluding to in your first paragraph (but, as you say, it goes toward taking care of our parents now, which I believe is a very good thing). My comment about the wage base was to point out that Social Security is a program that the lower and middle classes pay for and also benefit greatly by, and one that wealthy people will not be interested in because they'll never rely on it and they pay a relatively small amount into it (directly anyway; the fact that the government may apply generally collected taxes toward SS is another issue). As I understand it, a millionaire's checks at retirement would be the same amount as those of someone who has earned $80,400 (assuming it's every year of her or his worklife), since only the wages up to that amount (or up to whatever the base is for a particular year) are taxed. Presumably, the relatively small monthly SS check at retirement will not mean much to someone with millions of dollars in the bank, but could be the main financial support for many (most?) Americans. Since, as it's structured now, it's a program that doesn't effect Dubya's wealthy pals much, I worry that he'll encourage changes mostly so the program can benefit his pals (in this case the banking industry) and that he'll be able to do that without much serious opposition since lower wage earners do not have much political clout. Add to that his willingness to say how much it will benefit the American people whether it actually does or not, and.... well, obviously I don't trust the guy's motives at all. I realize there will be many other people involved in making any kind of change in the Social Security program, but so far he's been very good at getting what he wants. That may change after the 2002 congressional elections. Your explanation of Social Security is very interesting, Bob, and you clearly know much more about it than I ever will, so thanks for sharing all that. I especially like the information about the benefit to families. I didn't realize that. It's obviously a complex program and the idea of it being turned into a money-making venture for the wealthy bankers to the detriment of hard-working wage earners sickens me. I doubt you'd say it that way, but other than my use of the word sickens, it seems to me we're agreeing on the basic issues regarding SS. Debra Shea ------------------------------ End of JMDL Digest V2001 #323 ***************************** ------- Post messages to the list by clicking here: mailto:joni@smoe.org Unsubscribe by clicking here: mailto:joni-digest-request@smoe.org?body=unsubscribe ------- Siquomb, isn't she?