From: les@jmdl.com (JMDL Digest) To: joni-digest@smoe.org Subject: JMDL Digest V2001 #316 Reply-To: joni@smoe.org Sender: les@jmdl.com Errors-To: les@jmdl.com Precedence: bulk Unsubscribe: mailto:joni-digest-request@smoe.org?body=unsubscribe Archives: http://www.smoe.org/lists/joni Websites: http://www.jmdl.com http://www.jonimitchell.com JMDL Digest Friday, July 27 2001 Volume 2001 : Number 316 The Official Joni Mitchell Homepage, created by Wally Breese, can be found at http://www.jonimitchell.com. It contains the latest news, a detailed bio, Original Interviews, essays, lyrics and much much more. The JMDL website can be found at http://www.jmdl.com and contains interviews, articles, the member gallery, archives, and much more. Information on the 4th "Annual" New England JoniFest: http://www.jmdl.com/jfne2001.cfm ========== TOPICS and authors in this Digest: -------- "Pun"ishment (NJC) [M.Russell@iaea.org] Re: july 26!!!!!!!!!!! (NJC) [FMYFL@aol.com] Re: truth exists????? NJC ["Kakki" ] like BBC joni profile ["shane mattison" ] Joni Mitchell: River - upcoming winnipeg production ["shane mattison" ] Re: truth exists????? NJC [colin ] jack mittleman ["shane mattison" ] Re: Joni Mitchell: River - upcoming winnipeg production [SCJoniGuy@aol.co] Re: jack mittleman [SCJoniGuy@aol.com] Re: Joni Mitchell: River - upcoming winnipeg production [Mark Domyancich ] Re: jack mittleman [RoseMJoy@aol.com] need a joni suggestion... [Alison E ] Re: need a joni suggestion... [RoseMJoy@aol.com] Re: need a joni suggestion... [Don Rowe ] BBC Joni Profile ["shane mattison" ] Re: need a joni suggestion... [Alison E ] Re: books - Confederacy of Dunces (NJC) ["Lori R. Fye" ] Re: need a joni suggestion... [Don Rowe ] Re: "Pun"ishment (NJC) ["Diane Evans" ] Re: need a joni suggestion... [Alison E ] Re: need a joni suggestion... [Don Rowe ] Re: 5 Very Easy Pieces NJC [jan ] Vali? [Steve Dulson ] Re: need a joni suggestion... [Dflahm@aol.com] appalled NJC [colin ] Paul McCartney NJC [colin ] Re: appalled NJC [colin ] Re: appalled NJC [Jerry Notaro ] Re: stuff NJC [Brian Gross ] Re: appalled NJC [Don Rowe ] Re: need a joni suggestion... [Murphycopy@aol.com] Re: books NJC [Alison E ] PUN JAB (NJC) ["Wally Kairuz" ] Re: books - Confederacy of Dunces (NJC) [Alison E ] Re: appalled NJC [colin ] Re: appalled NJC [colin ] Re: stuff NJC [Vince Lavieri ] Re: appalled NJC [Don Rowe ] Re: books - Confederacy of Dunces (NJC) [Catherine McKay ] Re: "Pun"ishment (NJC) [Catherine McKay ] RE: "Pun"ishment (NJC) ["Wally Kairuz" ] Friday crap from SF_Indie group (NJC) [jan ] expose the bitch! ["Thom Byrd" ] Re: appalled NJC [colin ] Re: being calm and relaxed(NJC) [Relayer211@aol.com] Re: appalled NJC [colin ] njc Calling Brits - Brass Eye [AzeemAK@aol.com] ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Fri, 27 Jul 2001 09:06:42 +0200 From: M.Russell@iaea.org Subject: "Pun"ishment (NJC) 1. Two vultures board an airplane, each carrying two dead raccoons. The stewardess looks at them and says, "I'm sorry, gentlemen, only one carrion allowed per passenger." 2. Did you hear that NASA recently put a bunch of Holsteins into low earth orbit? They called it the herd shot 'round the world. 3. Two boll weevils grew up in South Carolina. One went to Hollywood and became a famous actor. The other stayed behind in the cotton fields and never amounted to much. The second one, naturally, became known as the lesser of two weevils 4. Two Eskimos sitting in a kayak were chilly, but when they lit a fire in the craft it sank, proving once again that you can't have your kayak and heat it, too. 5. A three legged dog walks into a saloon in the Old West. He limps up to the bar and announces: "I'm looking for the man who shot my paw." 6. Did you hear about the Buddhist who refused Novocain during a root canal? He wanted to transcend dental medication. 7. A group of chess enthusiasts checked into a hotel and were standing in the lobby discussing their recent tournament victories. After about an hour, the manager came out of the office and asked them to disperse. "But why?" they asked, as they moved off. Because," he said, "I can't stand chess nuts boasting in an open foyer." 8. A woman has twins, and gives them up for adoption. One of them goes to a family in Egypt and is named "Amal." The other goes to a family in Spain; they name him "Juan." Years later, Juan sends a picture of himself to his birth mother. Upon receiving the picture, she tells her husband that she wishes she also had a picture of Amal. Her husband responds "They're twins! If you've seen Juan, you've seen Amal." 9. These friars were behind on their belfry payments, so ! they opened up a small florist shop to raise funds. Since everyone liked to buy flowers from the men of God, a rival florist across town thought the competition was unfair. He asked the good fathers to close down, but they would not. He went back and begged the friars to close. They ignored him. So, the rival florist hired Hugh MacTaggart, the roughest and most vicious thug in town to "persuade" them to close. Hugh beat up the friars and trashed their store, saying he'd be back if they didn't close up shop. Terrified, they did so, thereby proving that: Hugh, and only Hugh, can prevent florist friars. 10. And finally, there was a man who sent 10 different puns to friends, in the hope that at least one of the puns would make them laugh. Unfortunately, no pun in ten did. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 27 Jul 2001 03:34:20 EDT From: FMYFL@aol.com Subject: Re: july 26!!!!!!!!!!! (NJC) In a message dated 7/26/01 12:25:47 PM Eastern Daylight Time, wallykai@fibertel.com.ar writes: > h e l l > > is having a birthday!!!!!!! > > > I just got home from a long day in Miami, and this is the first of 65 emails I see. I can't think of anything better. Hell, I hope you have/ or had a GREAT BIRTHDAY!!!!! I can't wait to see you in Topsfield! You're such a special lady. Lots of love and happiness to you! Jimmy ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 26 Jul 2001 23:43:52 -0700 From: "Kakki" Subject: Re: truth exists????? NJC Wally K wrote: > the old story: how do i know that you are you and > not a construct of my perceptions? how do i know that i am not alone and > that everything i perceive as objects and interactions are not ''but a >dream''? of course, i know you know, but how do i prove it or disprove it? Easy, there is no construct in my mind that could send myself an email from Wally K in Argentina. Therefore proof that you exist as a separate entity and are not alone ;-) Kakki ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 27 Jul 2001 02:19:23 -0600 From: "shane mattison" Subject: like BBC joni profile sure can recommend BBC Online joni profile, commending her growth as a performing artist all the way through her career...a little humour, great pics, interesting links, a good intro for some friend wanting to sample joni...complete with real audio, if you follow links... shane ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 27 Jul 2001 03:06:45 -0600 From: "shane mattison" Subject: Joni Mitchell: River - upcoming winnipeg production ...in 2002, winnipeg's comin' out for joni with the theatre production of Joni Mitchell:River from jan31 to feb17, '02 (bring your parkas, eh?), at the Prairie Exchange Theatre in Portage Place, Winnipeg, Manitoba... "...will showcase her most poetic and insightful lyrics..." ..."an evening of her songs performed by great actor-singers with a tight fabulous band led by Winnipeg's Greg Lowe"... to see, click below: http://www.google.com/search?q=cache:1UZqp7ou7QQ:www.umfm.com/theatre/pte.htm l+comedy+joni+mitchell&hl=en shane ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 27 Jul 2001 10:12:57 +0100 From: colin Subject: Re: stuff NJC > Wow! That's the first I've ever heard of physical > withdrawl symptome from marijuana. I stopped smoking a > few years ago, and had no symptoms whatsoever, I just > stopped, and was fine. i stopped sevral times at first too. no effects but I gradually got to smoking every day and by that time having one was just to make me feel 'normal'. I remained like that for years. I was toatlly shocked at what happened when I did stop! Within weeks I had a stomach ulcer. as well as all the other effects I already mentioned. And like evrybody else, I had no idea what was happening to me and certainly did not put it down to stopping the dope. I then just happened find the info on the withdrawal effects some people experince whent hey stop after long term use. It took months fo it all to stop and in many can take up to 12 mths. A friend whi is a Dr(MD) confirmed it for me too as she had the gen on it too. She too had been a heavy pot smoker. You know, i carried on smoking long after it stopped making me high. Mainly because whilst I could stop for 1-2 days, by the 3rd I just felt awful. But of course, like evryone else, I thought it was harmless, non addicting and no withdrawl. Had I known this wasn't the case, I might have stopped sooner becasue I would have been expecting the shit to hit the fan and worked around it. as itwas, Is topped with no grreat effort at all and was sick for 3 months. The reason i stoopped? Whereas like I said the high had lomng gone and it was juts making me feel 'normal', it then started making me feel awful as soon as I lit up and took a few puffs. So it was easy to leave it alone. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 27 Jul 2001 10:14:10 +0100 From: colin Subject: Re: truth exists????? NJC > Easy, there is no construct in my mind that could send myself an email from > Wally K in Argentina. Therefore proof that you exist as a separate entity > and are not alone ;-) ahhh but you could have imagined it all! This could all be just a dream...... > > > Kakki - -- bw colin BRO GC, 950i 940,864, 260, 890,Silver 830 and 270, Passap 6000 Duo80 colin@tantra-apso.com http://www.tantra-apso.com ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 27 Jul 2001 03:40:55 -0600 From: "shane mattison" Subject: jack mittleman singer-songwriter jack mittleman is a canadian by birth, produced a joni tribute effort in sweden...his meeting with her, where she praised the album is described and photgraphed on one of the best websites i've seen for a performing artist...especially listen to the audio of his own material... http://www.jackmittleman.com/Bio.asp shane ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 27 Jul 2001 07:54:20 EDT From: SCJoniGuy@aol.com Subject: Re: Joni Mitchell: River - upcoming winnipeg production << in 2002, winnipeg's comin' out for joni with the theatre production of Joni Mitchell:River from jan31 to feb17, '02 >> Very cool, Shane, great catch! Now the question is - how to get a recording of it? It could be a covers volume all on its own! ;~) Bob ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 27 Jul 2001 08:08:06 EDT From: SCJoniGuy@aol.com Subject: Re: jack mittleman << singer-songwriter jack mittleman is a canadian by birth, produced a joni tribute effort in sweden... >> This would be the "Bird That Whistles" project...it IS indeed a fine collection. No longer in print, it pops up on E-Bay from time to time, and I'm always glad to burn a copy for whoever might want it. The songs they cover: 1. Free Man In Paris 2. A Bird That Whistles 3. Chelsea Morning 4. A Case of You 5. This Flight Tonight 6. Urge For Going 7. Night Ride Home 8. Twisted 9. Hejira 10. The Silky Veils of Ardor 11. Woodstock They get MAJOR points in my book for covering her 60's work, 70's, 80's, & 90's, & no BSN or BYT in sight! :~) Bob ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 27 Jul 2001 08:34:26 -0500 From: Mark Domyancich Subject: Re: Joni Mitchell: River - upcoming winnipeg production Ick. The idea of choreographed Joni doesn't sit with me. Scrap the whole idea and do a winter tour instead, Joni. Mark NP-Soulive, 12/6/00-Cash's Dream > From: "shane mattison" > Reply-To: "shane mattison" > Date: Fri, 27 Jul 2001 03:06:45 -0600 > To: > Subject: Joni Mitchell: River - upcoming winnipeg production > > ...in 2002, winnipeg's comin' out for joni with the theatre production of Joni > Mitchell:River from jan31 to feb17, '02 (bring your parkas, eh?), at the > Prairie Exchange Theatre in Portage Place, Winnipeg, Manitoba... > "...will showcase her most poetic and insightful lyrics..." ..."an evening of > her songs performed by great actor-singers with a tight fabulous band led by > Winnipeg's Greg Lowe"... > to see, click below: > http://www.google.com/search?q=cache:1UZqp7ou7QQ:www.umfm.com/theatre/pte.htm > l+comedy+joni+mitchell&hl=en > shane ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 27 Jul 2001 09:45:52 EDT From: RoseMJoy@aol.com Subject: Re: jack mittleman In a message dated 7/27/01 5:39:30 AM Eastern Daylight Time, cactussong@home.com writes: > singer-songwriter jack mittleman is a canadian by birth, produced a joni > tribute > effort in sweden...his meeting with her, where she praised the album is > described and photgraphed on one of the best websites i've seen for a > performing artist...especially listen to the audio of his own material... > http://www.jackmittleman.com/Bio.asp > I loved the Jack's video Shane, thanks. Can you provide me with the url for the BBC Joni profile? I found a BBC news website, but when I did a Joni search I didn't come up with a profile link. Rose in NJ rosemjoy@aol.com ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 27 Jul 2001 07:20:47 -0700 (PDT) From: Alison E Subject: need a joni suggestion... i have a friend who is a big jazz fan, and we recently had this discussion about "Chelsea Morning". He said this: >> I've been re-listening to Joni Mitchell's "chelsea". New >> favorite part is the >> triangle-rhythm each time under the "don't it always >> seem to go, that you don't >> know what you got til it's gone" refrain--listen for >> the great subtle rhythm >> next time. I love that someone took such care to >> play something so subtle, yet >> so cool. Makes you happy to be alive! (SNIP) >>but most of it [Joni's music] is too sad for me. so now, i'm trying to come up with the best album to buy him to show him that first part of his statement is right on, the second part helplessly uninformed ;-) he's a big jazz fan, plays jazz piano, so i'm thinking DJRD. any other suggestions? alison e. in nyc Make international calls for as low as $.04/minute with Yahoo! Messenger http://phonecard.yahoo.com/ ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 27 Jul 2001 10:45:46 EDT From: RoseMJoy@aol.com Subject: Re: need a joni suggestion... I'd suggest DJRD or S&L rosemjoy@aol.com ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 27 Jul 2001 07:48:21 -0700 (PDT) From: Don Rowe Subject: Re: need a joni suggestion... First of all ... that's "Big Yellow Taxi", not "Chelsea Morning" ... at least the lyric your friend quoted. ;-) To cure your friend of his "all Joni is sad" ... there's really only one choice, which luckily happens to have one or two jazz elements of it's own: Wild Things Run Fast Don Rowe ===== Visit me anytime at http://www.mp3.com/donrowe Make international calls for as low as $.04/minute with Yahoo! Messenger http://phonecard.yahoo.com/ ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 27 Jul 2001 08:59:55 -0600 From: "shane mattison" Subject: BBC Joni Profile Rose, you asked for the BBC Joni profile: http://www.bbc.co.uk/music/profiles/mitchellj2.shtml enjoy, shane ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 27 Jul 2001 07:56:46 -0700 (PDT) From: Alison E Subject: Re: need a joni suggestion... i was hoping you would answer, don, and quite suspected what you would recommend. ;-) i inserted that wrong song title, accidentally. so that was my stupid mistake. don't you think WTRF is too poppy, though? i guess i was leaning for something a bit more serious. or more challenging, musically. of course, i'm sure i could find WTRF in a bargain bin down at tower, so there's that. alison e. in nyc - --- Don Rowe wrote: > To cure your friend of his "all Joni is sad" ... > there's really only one choice, which luckily > happens > to have one or two jazz elements of it's own: > > Wild Things Run Fast > Don Rowe Make international calls for as low as $.04/minute with Yahoo! Messenger http://phonecard.yahoo.com/ ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 27 Jul 2001 08:06:28 -0700 (PDT) From: "Lori R. Fye" Subject: Re: books - Confederacy of Dunces (NJC) > I loved OWEN MEANY TOO! The only one I have not been > able to access is the one about India (name excapes me DUH!) "A Son of the Circus." It took me a few chapters to get into it, but it turned out -- of course -- to be a terrific read. I highly recommend it! > Glad to have a kindred spirit here. Moi, aussi! Lori in DC ~ Make international calls for as low as $.04/minute with Yahoo! Messenger http://phonecard.yahoo.com/ ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 27 Jul 2001 08:11:28 -0700 (PDT) From: Don Rowe Subject: Re: need a joni suggestion... Yeah you've got a point. I was going for something that would undeniably counteract the "sad" thing. For something more musically challenging ... certainly more 'jazzy', but which could be considered "sad" from a certain point of view might be: HOSL? In any case, TI is right out ... ;-) Don Rowe ===== Visit me anytime at http://www.mp3.com/donrowe Make international calls for as low as $.04/minute with Yahoo! Messenger http://phonecard.yahoo.com/ ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 27 Jul 2001 10:27:08 -0500 From: "Diane Evans" Subject: Re: "Pun"ishment (NJC) LOL! What great groaners! Diane _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 27 Jul 2001 08:37:41 -0700 (PDT) From: Alison E Subject: Re: need a joni suggestion... - --- Don Rowe wrote: > Yeah you've got a point. I was going for something > that would undeniably counteract the "sad" thing. > Forsomething more musically challenging ... certainly > more 'jazzy', but which could be considered "sad" > from > a certain point of view might be: > HOSL? > In any case, TI is right out ... ;-) LOL, yes i think blue is out too! for me, though, there is a very melancholy spirit to HOSL. maybe rosie is right on with the S&L suggestion. S&L or DJRD? i think i'm leaning towards DJRD because i know he would be impressed with paprika plains, and offnight backstreet is one of my favorite songs. a.e. in nyc Make international calls for as low as $.04/minute with Yahoo! Messenger http://phonecard.yahoo.com/ ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 27 Jul 2001 08:50:24 -0700 (PDT) From: Don Rowe Subject: Re: need a joni suggestion... Yeah, DJRD is probably the most challenging musically of any suggestions you've gotten so far. And while there are some "up" moments on it ... remember that you'll be leaving the poor guy with the strains of "The Silky Veils of Ardor" ringing in his ears! ;-) I have to say "nix" on S&L. Too much Hejira on it, plus you'd run a bit too much risk of "poisoning the well" by getting your friend used to the live renditions before having heard the studio cuts. But this of course, could just be a quirk of my personal approach to artist investigation and discovery! ;-) Don Rowe ===== Visit me anytime at http://www.mp3.com/donrowe Make international calls for as low as $.04/minute with Yahoo! Messenger http://phonecard.yahoo.com/ ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 27 Jul 2001 08:45:58 -0700 From: jan Subject: Re: 5 Very Easy Pieces NJC >"Ian Scott" writes: > >>Does anybody else like "Ally McBeal"? I used to, but switched to 'Roswell' (and now, 'Angel'). - -jan ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 27 Jul 2001 09:31:00 -0700 From: Steve Dulson Subject: Vali? Has a person named Vali come up on the list before? Is this perhaps who Joni's song Ballerina Valerie is about? Reason I ask is that I came across an LA Times film review titled 'Vali' - Study of an English Witch in Italy. The film was made in 1965, and the review published in 1978, and I'm wondering why the heck I saved it unless there was a Joni connection. :) - -- ######################################################## Steve Dulson Costa Mesa CA steve@psitech.com "The Tinker's Own" http://www.tinkersown.com "Southern California Dulcimer Heritage" http://www.scdh.org "The Living Tradition Concert Series" http://www.thelivingtradition.org/ ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 27 Jul 2001 13:20:20 EDT From: Dflahm@aol.com Subject: Re: need a joni suggestion... I'm not aware of any JM recordings that express a big preponderance of "happy." Certainly a cd could be burned for this person's specific taste and it would probably include Chelsea Morning, In France..., Carey, Cotton Avenue, Night Ride Home, You Turn Me On.. stuff like dat dere DAVID LAHM ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 27 Jul 2001 18:33:58 +0100 From: colin Subject: appalled NJC I really do not undertsand the American legal system. A 14 year old was tried as an adult for a crime he committed as a 13 year old. The crime was murder and and appaling, dreadful crime murder is. However, it is also just so outrageoues that a child should be treated this way. He has been senteneced to 298 years in prison. It is no surprise that this child is black. How can a child be treated like an adult? Where is the justice? Human beings make me so ashamed sometimes. There is no way this piece of barbarity can be justified. a child is a child is a child. - -- bw colin BRO GC, 950i 940,864, 260, 890,Silver 830 and 270, Passap 6000 Duo80 colin@tantra-apso.com http://www.tantra-apso.com ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 27 Jul 2001 18:42:39 +0100 From: colin Subject: Paul McCartney NJC Paul McCartney ahs announced his engagement today to Heather Mills, 33. She is well known here because she is a model who lost a leg in accident but continued to model and refused to let her loss ruin her life. Although she isn't particularly like Linda in looks she is blonde, tough and not conventionally beautifull. - -- bw colin BRO GC, 950i 940,864, 260, 890,Silver 830 and 270, Passap 6000 Duo80 colin@tantra-apso.com http://www.tantra-apso.com ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 27 Jul 2001 18:43:28 +0100 From: colin Subject: Re: appalled NJC this should read 28 years. colin wrote: > I really do not undertsand the American legal system. > A 14 year old was tried as an adult for a crime he committed as a 13 > year old. The crime was murder and and appaling, dreadful crime murder > is. However, it is also just so outrageoues that a child should be > treated this way. He has been senteneced to 298 years in prison. It is > no surprise that this child is black. How can a child be treated like an > adult? Where is the justice? Human beings make me so ashamed sometimes. > There is no way this piece of barbarity can be justified. a child is a > child is a child. > > -- > bw > colin > BRO GC, 950i 940,864, 260, 890,Silver 830 and 270, Passap 6000 > Duo80 > colin@tantra-apso.com > http://www.tantra-apso.com - -- bw colin BRO GC, 950i 940,864, 260, 890,Silver 830 and 270, Passap 6000 Duo80 colin@tantra-apso.com http://www.tantra-apso.com ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 27 Jul 2001 13:39:07 -0400 From: Jerry Notaro Subject: Re: appalled NJC colin wrote: > I really do not undertsand the American legal system. > A 14 year old was tried as an adult for a crime he committed as a 13 > year old. The crime was murder and and appaling, dreadful crime murder > is. However, it is also just so outrageoues that a child should be > treated this way. He has been senteneced to 298 years in prison. It is > no surprise that this child is black. How can a child be treated like an > adult? Where is the justice? Human beings make me so ashamed sometimes. > There is no way this piece of barbarity can be justified. a child is a > child is a child. Correction Colin. It's 28 years. And that is for 2 crimes, murder and deadly assault. Jerry, excited about seeing Nancy Griffith tomorrow ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 27 Jul 2001 14:20:27 -0400 From: Brian Gross Subject: Re: stuff NJC Tyler Hewitt wrote: > > Comments on recent posts: > > RE: > sidenote: utahns consume more prozac than anyone else > in the country, a state where alcohol is frowned upon > and being caught with a joint tantamount to getting > caught having sex in church... > > Hmmmmm.... > Having sex in a church sounds kind of fun! > Would it have to be missionary position??? But isn't that why we are having the fest in church again instead of Ashara's backyard? No risk of killer mosquitos there, just hellfire and brimstone, right? right? ;-) brei ne: the steamed veggies in my healthy chinese lunch - -- After twenty-three years you'd think I could find A way to let you know somehow That I want to see your smiling face Forty-five years from now. --Stan Rogers ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 27 Jul 2001 11:58:26 -0700 (PDT) From: Don Rowe Subject: Re: appalled NJC - --- colin wrote: > I really do not undertsand the American legal > system. > A 14 year old was tried as an adult for a crime he > committed as a 13 > year old. Trust me when I say that we here in America do not fully comprehend the CURRENT British legal system either ... the one where 2 juveniles who tortured a toddler to death are released on their 18th birthday - -- for no apparent other reason than their having lived long enough to suit the legal statute. What we much prefer, and have largely copied, was Britian's own Imperial justice system. Something about it's Draconian nature appealed to the Puritan spirit in us. We've put people in stocks for public ridicule. Insisted for the majority of our history as an independent nation, not only on capital punishment, but public execution. These are just a few of the trappings which were informed by British monarchical rule -- not to mention it's traditions of extended incarceration for petty offenses. What we've recently added to this Medieval mix was the notion that an "adult action must proceed from an adult consciousness." Once you accept this fundamental premise, it's quite a simple matter to treat a 13-year-old murderer as if he/she were a fully developed adult. You and I may not agree with it ... but it's the way things have, somewhat sadly, become. Don Rowe ===== Visit me anytime at http://www.mp3.com/donrowe Make international calls for as low as $.04/minute with Yahoo! Messenger http://phonecard.yahoo.com/ ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 27 Jul 2001 14:59:40 EDT From: Murphycopy@aol.com Subject: Re: need a joni suggestion... In a message dated 7/27/01 12:30:38 PM, Dflahm@aol.com writes: << I'm not aware of any JM recordings that express a big preponderance of "happy." >> I think burning a CD is probably the way to go for someone looking for "happy" Joni music. Don't forget about "Night in the City." --Bob ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 27 Jul 2001 12:03:42 -0700 (PDT) From: Alison E Subject: Re: books NJC - --- hell wrote: > and am re-reading Bridget Jones' Diary and The Edge > Of Reason (the > follow-up) before going to see the movie. I did > wonder about the casting > etc. - I never usually like seeing movies of my > favourite books because they > always seem to get it completely wrong.And everyone > I know that's seen it is > raving about how good it was. you can add me to the list of people who absolutely loved this movie... and i owe it all to john van tiel! hi uncle john! he ordered me to read the book, which i did, then waited till i had finished it to see the movie. much more to the book, of course, but both were great. i'd recommend it for nearly anyone. laughing out loud funny. alison e. in nyc Make international calls for as low as $.04/minute with Yahoo! Messenger http://phonecard.yahoo.com/ ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 27 Jul 2001 16:28:36 -0300 From: "Wally Kairuz" Subject: PUN JAB (NJC) marian!!! i love puns!!! thanks for the chuckles. love, wally ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 27 Jul 2001 12:33:52 -0700 (PDT) From: Alison E Subject: Re: books - Confederacy of Dunces (NJC) - --- "Lori R. Fye" wrote: >Fierce Invalids Home From Hot Climates > Tom and John are also two of my favorite authors, > and I'm especially delighted to learn that Tom has > published something new! I've been smitten with his > writing since "Even Cowgirls Get the Blues," which I > first read while living in North Dakota in the late > '70s tom robbins is one of my favorite authors as well, and jitterbug perfume one of my altime favorite books. another roadside attraction a very close second. right now i'm reading "a little more about me" by Pam Houston, a great writer of short stories. i am reading it slowly so i won't ever finish it. i get so depressed at the end of her books, because i know its almost over! another of my favorite books is by pam, and it's called "cowboys are my weakness". mark in seattle, this one you must read! alison e. in nyc np: patty larkin, tango Make international calls for as low as $.04/minute with Yahoo! Messenger http://phonecard.yahoo.com/ ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 27 Jul 2001 21:33:09 +0100 From: colin Subject: Re: appalled NJC Jerry Notaro wrote: > colin wrote: > > > I really do not undertsand the American legal system. > > A 14 year old was tried as an adult for a crime he committed as a 13 > > year old. The crime was murder and and appaling, dreadful crime murder > > is. However, it is also just so outrageoues that a child should be > > treated this way. He has been senteneced to 298 years in prison. It is > > no surprise that this child is black. How can a child be treated like an > > adult? Where is the justice? Human beings make me so ashamed sometimes. > > There is no way this piece of barbarity can be justified. a child is a > > child is a child. > > Correction Colin. It's 28 years. duh! I corrected myself for the typo. And what it is for is niether hear nor their we are talking about a child. This is a wicked way to ttreat a child. > And that is for 2 crimes, murder and > deadly assault. > > Jerry, excited about seeing Nancy Griffith tomorrow - -- bw colin BRO GC, 950i 940,864, 260, 890,Silver 830 and 270, Passap 6000 Duo80 colin@tantra-apso.com http://www.tantra-apso.com ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 27 Jul 2001 21:36:42 +0100 From: colin Subject: Re: appalled NJC > You and I may not agree with it ... but it's the way > things have, somewhat sadly, become. too true. and regarding the 2 ten year olds who thrwe sti=ones at and killed little Jamie Bulger, of coursre they have been realeased. what else was supposed to happen to tehm? Hanged like like many morons suggested? Locked up for life like other morons suggested? if adults were adult and behaved responsibly and respectfully toward children, we wouldn't be having these crimes,. We reap what we sow. > > > Don Rowe > > > > ===== > Visit me anytime at http://www.mp3.com/donrowe > Make international calls for as low as $.04/minute with Yahoo! Messenger > http://phonecard.yahoo.com/ - -- bw colin BRO GC, 950i 940,864, 260, 890,Silver 830 and 270, Passap 6000 Duo80 colin@tantra-apso.com http://www.tantra-apso.com ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 27 Jul 2001 16:32:24 -0400 From: Vince Lavieri Subject: Re: stuff NJC Just to clarify: Brian Gross wrote: > Tyler Hewitt wrote: > > > > Comments on recent posts: > > > > > > Hmmmmm.... > > Having sex in a church sounds kind of fun! > > Would it have to be missionary position??? > The answer is: No. Use your God-given creativity. (the Rev) Vince (who is, for the purposes of this question, also a bishop) ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 27 Jul 2001 13:48:22 -0700 (PDT) From: Don Rowe Subject: Re: appalled NJC - --- colin wrote: > what else was supposed to happen to them? (the two young men recently released after having stoned a toddler to death) In an IDEAL world, a period of supervised psychiatric counseling and evaluation, coupled with a program that would have gradually re-introduced & re-integrated them into the community, in such capacity as their progress and continuing prognosis dictated. Of course, the media attention to the case, and the underlying public bloodlust probably would have rendered such a solution virtually impossible, even if it existed institutionally (which I'm assuming it does not). In any case, I am hoping that the two boys in question are never far from the sight of some mental health care professional, public or private. Don Rowe ===== Visit me anytime at http://www.mp3.com/donrowe Make international calls for as low as $.04/minute with Yahoo! Messenger http://phonecard.yahoo.com/ ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 27 Jul 2001 17:17:11 -0400 (EDT) From: Catherine McKay Subject: Re: books - Confederacy of Dunces (NJC) - --- Michael Paz wrote: > I loved OWEN MEANY TOO! The only one I have not been > able to access is the > one about India (name excapes me DUH!) Glad to have > a kindred spirit here. > "Son of the circus" - get it, it's well worth it. Get your free @yahoo.ca address at http://mail.yahoo.ca ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 27 Jul 2001 17:18:28 EDT From: AzeemAK@aol.com Subject: Re: "Pun"ishment (NJC) In a message dated 27/07/01 08:19:07 GMT Daylight Time, M.Russell@iaea.org writes: << 1. Two vultures board an airplane, each carrying two dead raccoons. The stewardess looks at them and says, "I'm sorry, gentlemen, only one carrion allowed per passenger." >> GROOOAAN ;-) I won't torture you with the one that ends "drained Wops keep falling on my head" - or "here's that sick squid I owe you" - or "you've got van aerial disease"... Azeem ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 27 Jul 2001 17:58:10 -0400 (EDT) From: Catherine McKay Subject: Re: appalled NJC - --- Don Rowe wrote: > --- colin wrote: > > > what else was supposed to happen to them? (the two > young men recently released after having stoned a > toddler to death) > > In an IDEAL world, a period of supervised > psychiatric > counseling and evaluation, coupled with a program > that > would have gradually re-introduced & re-integrated > them into the community, in such capacity as their > progress and continuing prognosis dictated. > ... > > In any case, I am hoping that the two boys in > question > are never far from the sight of some mental health > care professional, public or private. > Amen to that. The penal system, no matter what country it is in, and no matter how well its intentions start off, does very little to rehabilitate anyone. By its very nature, it can't - too many bad, tough people in with too many other bad, tough people. There may be those few people who have been incarcerated who may be shocked into behaving themselves but for most, the whole system becomes a vicious circle. Some crimes shouldn't be punishable by prison but by community service of some kind. But, for the most part, I can't think of any alternative for those who commit violent crimes. In the case of the two boys in Britain, I sincerely hope that they received major counselling the whole time they were in prison and that a condition of their release be continued therapy and constant monitoring. I have no idea whether what they did could have been a form of temporary insansity or whether they're complete sociopaths and I'm inclined to go with the sociopath version, in which case they will require constant and vigilant monitoring for the rest of their lives. All that aside, there is a terrible inequity in the number of non-white people who are sentenced to prison compared to their numbers in the population at large. (If ten per cent of the population of the U.S., for example, is black, then you would expect the prison population to be 10% as well). Something must be done from the very beginning to ensure that people who are born in poverty are not condemned to stay that way because of the colour of their skin, or the language they speak, of because they lack the financial means to get out of the cycle. School systems are supposed to treat everyone equally but it is a fact here in Canada, as it is in the U.S., as I'm sure it is in Britain, that if you live in a well-off neighbourhood, your school will be better equipped, have better and newer books and so on - and yet, schools are all supposed to be funded by the taxpayers' money. (Except that Mr Rich Guy whose kids attend the Rich Neighbourhood School has the money to buy little extras for his kids' school). Many of us despair because we want change to happen overnight (wouldn't that be something?) and, as a result, many people just give up and don't try to make the system work more fairly. It's difficult to see a light at the end of the tunnel. I'm not saying that "the system" is to blame for these kinds of events. Ultimately people of sound mind are responsible for their own actions and make their own choices. There are several reasons why people DON'T commit crimes - one is, they don't want to be caught and punished - even a sociopath can figure that one out; better than the idea of avoiding punishment is that people empathize with others. I won't hurt you, because I wouldn't want to be hurt either, or because I know that hurting you also hurts me. But humans are weak and if they don't see results right away, they're right back to the old ways. People need to look at themselves as part of a community, rather than as individuals out to grab the most toys. If we who have a little more do something to help the kid in the poor neighbourhood, then maybe we'll have a productive citizen who can bring something fresh and new into our lives and the lives of others - a person who will go out and do the same for other people. At this point, I've lost sight of what my point is and must go to pick up daughter who comes home from camp tonight - I haven't seen her for two whole weeks! I wonder if she has grown? No man, or woman, is an island. And so my sermon ends with a ..... Get your free @yahoo.ca address at http://mail.yahoo.ca ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 27 Jul 2001 17:59:12 -0400 (EDT) From: Catherine McKay Subject: Re: "Pun"ishment (NJC) - --- AzeemAK@aol.com wrote: > In a message dated 27/07/01 08:19:07 GMT Daylight > I won't torture you with the one that ends "drained > Wops keep falling on my > head" - or "here's that sick squid I owe you" - or > "you've got van aerial > disease"... > Oh c'mon, Azeem - finish what you started (or start what you finished?) Don't leave us hanging! Get your free @yahoo.ca address at http://mail.yahoo.ca ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 27 Jul 2001 19:18:10 -0300 From: "Wally Kairuz" Subject: RE: "Pun"ishment (NJC) oh please azeem!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! don't leave me pun-deprived!!!!! wally - --- AzeemAK@aol.com wrote: > In a message dated 27/07/01 08:19:07 GMT Daylight > I won't torture you with the one that ends "drained > Wops keep falling on my > head" - or "here's that sick squid I owe you" - or > "you've got van aerial > disease"... ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 27 Jul 2001 15:19:36 -0700 From: jan Subject: Friday crap from SF_Indie group (NJC) Rules for Rockers 1.) Don't misspell any words in your band's name. Many bands opt to switch the letter 'I' for the letter 'y'. This is cool if you're into everyone with 1/8 to 1/16 a brain assuming that you are a crappy jock/rap/metal band. For instance, Limp Bizkit, Strait Up, and Korn are all these type of bands. Are any of them good? Check and mate. 2.) Avoid using food products in your band's name. Chances are you'll misspell it anyways. Also chances are you'll pick some crappy food over a tasty one. 3.) Don't wear your band's own shirts. No exceptions or excuses accepted. Don't think the 'but I'm on tour and we haven't been able to wash our clothes, it's the only thing clean I had to wear' story is gonna fly...wear the dirty shirt, you're a rocker my friend. 4.) Don't play reggae unless you are in Bad Brains. 5.) Cowboy hats are for cowboys only. That is why they are called cowboy hats. You aren't Madonna nor are you trend setting. And unless your main transportation is a horse just don't wear a cowboy hat, or you're a total poser cowboy. 6.) This one here is a no brainer and it's mainly, but not solely, directed towards the ska bands. DO NOT insert the name of your genre, or something related to your genre into your band's name. You don't see any good bands attempt this. except (Metallica, but even that is questionable) The best solution to this problem is to not start a ska band in the first place, cos not only are ska bands just itching to break this rule and prove their dorkdom, but nobody's scoring gash with a ska band anyway. 7.) Avoid using the words theory, project, or plan in the title of your band name. 8.) Don't play funk. Don't even joke about playing funk. 9.) Visors on band members (or anyone for that matter) earn yourself a bitch slap. If you have your visor sideways, upside down, or both your penalty increases to additional groin area pummeling. 10.) For shows, props are generally a bad idea. They usually stimulate the audience's what-the-hell sensors. If you do decide to use one, make sure it's small and you don't spend most of your time playing with it. Unless of course you are the Beastie Boys, it's 1986, you're opening for Madonna, and you have a giant two story penis on stage. 11.) If your band has a cozy fan base of say, five, skip out on the huge rock star banner. It is key to grasp the idea that people don't operate on the if-they-have-a-banner-they-have-to-be-good mentality. 12.) Never have all members wear the same shirt. This is a ridiculous concept and should not be explained. 13.) If you're playing your hometown, don't say 'What's up (town)'. This phrase is reserved for the out of town and/or touring bands. You might make them mad by stealing their pep speech. 14.) If you're playing outside of your hometown, don't say, 'What's up (town)'. This screams shoot me in the face. 15.) Preaching is for church, shut up and rock. 16.) Cordless guitars are only ok if your first name is Eddie, your last name is Van Halen, and you kick ass at playing guitar with a power drill. If this is not the case, don't venture there asshole. 17.) Playing your guitar up by your neck makes you look like a geek. Period. If you need an example, take a cue from a few of the greats...look at Slash's guitar height, or maybe take a peek at where Duff let the bass rest, or possibly look at just how low Kurt Novaselic rode his rock axe. 18.) If you play bass make sure you have only 4 strings. If you play guitar make sure you only have 6 or less. If you play drums know that if your set looks like something Tommy Lee would play while hanging upside down, you are a jackass. You don't need 12 cymbals fruitcake. 19.) Gold hardware and/or wood stained anything is a no-no. Ditto for neon anything. 20.) White cordless mics were used by Vanilla Ice, don't travel the same road. 21.) Unless you are an immortal rock god, spitting or throwing water into the crowd instantaneously eliminates any chance you had at getting laid that night. It may ensure you getting your ass kicked though. 22.) Covering new wave songs, oldies, or current Top 40 songs means your band sucks mad horse dong. The hey wouldn't it be funny to cover that N'Sync song and make it punk idea is about as funny as a knee to the crotch. 23.) If all of your songs are about how much you miss your girlfriend, do us a favor and instead of touring, stay home geek. 24.) Kick out the fat guy, he's the reason you are never gonna be big. 25.) If you're fat, kick yourself out, you're blowing it for the rest of the band. 26.) If you're a metal band, make sure that you are a metal band before you say you are a metal band. A pretty fool proof test is to ask yourself if you think Rob Halford would be into your band back in the days when Judas Priest was the shit. 27.) If you have a DJ make sure he at least has two turntables. I actually recommend no DJ, but if you gotta go there... 28.) I take that back. No DJ's. This DJ in bands shit has to stop now. 29.) Shave. Beards = blowing it. 30.) Dont wear backward baseball caps, unless you're the Beastie Boys. 31.) Use a pick. If you play slap bass you need your fingers broken. 32.) Don't tell the crowd what they can and can't do. You're not Fugazi. If you want to be a cop, get off the stage and go join the police academy champ. 33.) Unless you're the headliner you shouldn't be playing hour and a half sets, keep it short. The idea that 'Hey these people don't seem to like us, maybe they just didn't like those songs, let's play some more until we play on they like' is never accurate. Get off the stage. We want to go home. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 27 Jul 2001 19:20:59 -0400 From: "Thom Byrd" Subject: expose the bitch! I don't want to hear any bellyaching from you about me violating the "no posting private email" rule. You use that rule just to hide your nasty comments behind. So... no more. You've been forewarned. Debra Shea _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 28 Jul 2001 00:37:03 +0100 From: colin Subject: Re: appalled NJC Don Rowe wrote: > --- colin wrote: > > > what else was supposed to happen to them? (the two > young men recently released after having stoned a > toddler to death) > > In an IDEAL world, a period of supervised psychiatric > counseling and evaluation, coupled with a program that > would have gradually re-introduced & re-integrated > them into the community, in such capacity as their > progress and continuing prognosis dictated. this is what happened. > > > Of course, the media attention to the case, and the > underlying public bloodlust the public bloodlust was hsameful > probably would have > rendered such a solution virtually impossible, even if > it existed institutionally (which I'm assuming it does > not). see above > > > In any case, I am hoping that the two boys in question > are never far from the sight of some mental health > care professional, public or private. I doubt they will be. Imagine trying to make a life with new identies and having to live with what they did as children, disturbed children. > > > Don Rowe > > ===== > Visit me anytime at http://www.mp3.com/donrowe > Make international calls for as low as $.04/minute with Yahoo! Messenger > http://phonecard.yahoo.com/ - -- bw colin BRO GC, 950i 940,864, 260, 890,Silver 830 and 270, Passap 6000 Duo80 colin@tantra-apso.com http://www.tantra-apso.com ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 27 Jul 2001 19:49:18 EDT From: Relayer211@aol.com Subject: Re: being calm and relaxed(NJC) I used to smoke pot, but I've always been in my own world too much. Pot just made me go even further into my own world... ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 28 Jul 2001 00:56:58 +0100 From: colin Subject: Re: appalled NJC > I'm not saying that "the system" is to blame for these > kinds of events. of course it is 'the system' as you call it. Actually, it is us, you and me and evryone else. Society. Empathy is something one has when one is brought up with love and respect. Sociaopath is a meaningless label used to make people feel better and take the blame away from society. Severely damaged people are unable to empathise. They get that way because they are damaged BY other people, adults. a lot of very educated sounding nonsense is spoken and written about these problems. the answer is really simple;children need to be loved and respected not just by their parents/family but by society as a whole. Society needs to get it's head out of it's arse and take responsibility for the world we live in and the world we offer our children. But it won't. It wants to be able to buy it's goods cheaply and doesn't give a toss that those goods are made by child slaves who are barely paid. Society wants to sleep soundly at night, with plugs in it's ears so as not to hear what might be going on next door. No one wants to think about what might be happeneing to little Johnny, doesn't wnat to wonder why there is blood in his stoools, or bruises on his body or why he beahves so oddly. No one gave a toss about the boys who killed James Bulger until they did what they did. And now they want them dead so they don't have to face their own guilt. Most people express horror at child abuse but as far as I can tell it is all talk and noises just made to make themselves feel better. The child abuse goes on under our noses and we turn the other way. Or we label disturbed children as having some disorder and fill them with drugs. So much easier than loving them. so much easier to believe they have some brain malfunction rather than to accept that something has gone seriously wrong in their upbringing and that the adults around them are responsible for it. Adults hide from painful truths, the children pay for it. Any child dare to bring it to their attention, and they are destroyed. It takes an adult to face their responsibilites and to learn and cahnge. trouble is most of us are children just pretending to be adults. The list is ample evidence of that. I don't mean that unkindly at all. The wars we have, the sniping, the acting out.......and we think we know! ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 27 Jul 2001 19:52:39 EDT From: AzeemAK@aol.com Subject: njc Calling Brits - Brass Eye I think this is a Brit thing folks, but just to explain, a satirist called Chris Morris is behind a programme called Brass Eye. The edition shown last night has aroused a lot of controversy, as its theme was paedophilia, or rather the media's treatment of it. Did anyone else see it? I'd be fascinated to hear what people thought. Personally, I thought the programme was brilliant: to me, it was absolutely not saying "paedophilia is funny," which seems to have been the main assumption. It was satirising the prurient obsessions of the media, and pointing up what happens when a sort of siege mentality is deliberately fomented by sections of the media - most of it, in fact. The tabloid newspapers are largely culpable in this, of course, and I felt the constant use of awful puns was a nod in their direction. As for using celebrities, this seemed pretty clear to me, a reproach to the celebrity endorsed bandwagon; the celebs may be well meaning, but - as this programme illustrated - often hopelessly ill-informed on the cause they purport to champion. Is it really helping to mouth the sort of platitudes we saw last night, such as "nonce sense"? This programme was genuinely hard-hitting, in a way that hardly any satire is these days. Maybe that is why some may have found it too much. I also feel it was appropriate that it was shown on Channel 4, as the C4 news is probably the least culpable of this sort of sensationalism. That's my take... Azeem ------------------------------ End of JMDL Digest V2001 #316 ***************************** ------- Post messages to the list by clicking here: mailto:joni@smoe.org Unsubscribe by clicking here: mailto:joni-digest-request@smoe.org?body=unsubscribe ------- Siquomb, isn't she?