From: les@jmdl.com (JMDL Digest) To: joni-digest@smoe.org Subject: JMDL Digest V2001 #304 Reply-To: joni@smoe.org Sender: les@jmdl.com Errors-To: les@jmdl.com Precedence: bulk Unsubscribe: mailto:joni-digest-request@smoe.org?body=unsubscribe Archives: http://www.smoe.org/lists/joni Websites: http://www.jmdl.com http://www.jonimitchell.com JMDL Digest Friday, July 20 2001 Volume 2001 : Number 304 The Official Joni Mitchell Homepage, created by Wally Breese, can be found at http://www.jonimitchell.com. It contains the latest news, a detailed bio, Original Interviews, essays, lyrics and much much more. The JMDL website can be found at http://www.jmdl.com and contains interviews, articles, the member gallery, archives, and much more. Information on the 4th "Annual" New England JoniFest: http://www.jmdl.com/jfne2001.cfm ========== TOPICS and authors in this Digest: -------- Re: Subject: Re: Okay now I'm REALLY steamed ... (njc, no ... really NJC) ["Kakki" ] Joni, a cinematic influence...? [BachelorNumero2@aol.com] Hidden Pleasures [Gordon Mackie ] The Human Race [Gordon Mackie ] Re: The Human Race (NJC) [FMYFL@aol.com] Re: NJC suicide/black/books - long ["Lori R. Fye" ] Re: Subject: Re: Okay now I'm REALLY steamed ... (md) (njc, no ... really NJC) [MDESTE1] Re: Some thoughts on Joni and movies and pictures [SCJoniGuy@aol.com] Re: Subject: Re: Okay now I'm REALLY steamed ... (md) (njc, no ... really NJC) [Don Rowe ] Re: Re: soul? NJC [FredNow@aol.com] Re: Paul Weller/Newport Folk NJC [Alison E ] Re: soul? NJC [Alison E ] Tube's Gone No Color No Contrast [Medric Faulkner ] jonis speaking voice [Bounced Message ] Re: NJC - Racism, Letterman, DiFranco [Alison E ] Re: Tube's Gone No Color No Contrast/soul - NJC and long ["J. R. Mills" <] Re: joni line [njc]/ blackness [Alison E ] Re: jonis speaking voice [Don Rowe ] make-up artist ["shane mattison" ] Re: Subject: Re: Okay now I'm REALLY steamed ... (md) (njc, no... really NJC) [Randy Remote ] Re: Mr. Gates (NJC) [Don Rowe ] Subject: Re: NJC - Racism, Letterman, DiFranco ["Kate Bennett" Subject: Re: Subject: Re: Okay now I'm REALLY steamed ... (njc, no ... really NJC) Becuase it says in big red letters on the front "Enclosed is an important message from the IRS on the status and amount of immediate tax relief. Do Not Throw Away!" It is not in the form of an enclosed letter in an envelope but is in one of those things that fold over. There is a little chart that shows how much you are personally receiving (not everyone is getting $600 - it varies depending on certain factors. A check would come in an envelope. Maybe they could put something in big red letters on that, too. I agree the pre-mailing is sort of a waste, but it certainly wouldn't be the first time and will not be the last. The mailing, by the way, comes directly from the IRS, not the Republican party or Bush's office personally. That, and the fact that it carries an IRS form and catalog no. seems to indicate that perhaps it really is tied into one of their regulations. If, on the other hand, it is proven that is was all a front for "campaigning", it should be exposed. Kakki > This doesn't make any sense to me (sending out a pre-mailing so that the > actual mailing is not thrown away)...why wouldn't someone inclined to throw > away the actual mailing not be inclined to throw away the pre-mailing? > > ******************************************** > Kate Bennett > www.katebennett.com > sponsored by Polysonics www.polysonics.com > Discover the Indies at Taylor Guitars: > http://www.taylorguitars.com/artists/awp/indies/bennett.html > ******************************************** ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 20 Jul 2001 03:04:38 -0400 From: les@jmdl.com Subject: Today in Joni History: July 20 On July 20 in Joni Mitchell History: 1983: Joni performs a controversial concert in Boston. From Wally's Bio Page: When Refuge did [this show], Joni got some bad press for walking offstage five times during the show. Whether her frustration resulted from malfunctioning equipment, or from the audience being too noisy, in reality it was a combination of the show being a rare one for Joni in the daytime, the crowd's natural rowdiness adding distraction, and the disappointing fact that this concert was at the end of a long, grueling tour played in venues that were mostly only about 2/3 full. JMDLer Rickie Lee writes: i was at that famous, ill fated concert, and here is what i know. joni did NOT walk off stage five times. she played two songs completely (she opened with coyote and then played another thru - don't recall the song) and then started to sing song for sharon. she blew a lyric and stopped. regrouped for a moment and started over. she reached the same point in the song (i think it was around the second or third verse) and blew the lyric again. she then said that she always had a hard time performing in front of an audience that was milling around and she was going to take a short break and let everyone find their seats and then would be back. at this point she had been onstage perhaps 15 minutes. and she left. she was gone approx FORTY FIVE minutes. (and let me add, the audience was NOT rowdy. about 95% of us were rapt, as all good joni fans would be in her presence...but the show had just begun, and there were, as at every concert, some late arrivals, and it was those folks who apparently "distracted" her. i recently spoke to another list member who was also at the concert and she met one of the promoters of that show, who apparently referred to joni as a "bitch" and described her sitting in her limo during this 45 minute break, trying get her driver to leave. the promoter and some other behind-the-scene people were telling her (all the while, bringing her drinks and trying to calm her down) that if she left, after 2 and 1/8th songs, she would not be paid. joni was insisting that technically she had "performed" and they HAD to pay her and they insisted if she left - no payday. after a 45 minute or so absence, joni came back on stage, in a different outfit, and without a word, (no: "thanks for being patient" no: "sorry that took so long" ) just started playing again. the crowd was not entirely receptive to her at first, but when she started playing "woodstock" everyone was on their feet and the mood was wonderful, and people started coming up to the stage (it was an outdoor concert and during the day so it was still light out) and clapping and cheering, and joni finished the song and laid down her guitar and left. no good night. no thanks for coming. no nothing. she just left. just as the concert, for the first time in that awful evening, was taking off! everyone thought it was another break. but then the lights came up and the gates swung open and it was clear, the night was over. (she had performed during this second set for maybe 30-40 minutes!!!) the crowd began to boo. and for the next 3 days or so, every radio station and newspaper a! nd newscast in town savaged her. and rightly so. years later i heard this explanation for her behavior. the concert series was sponsored by miller high life and at the back of the stage was a big sign that was shaped like a bar of music, with a staff and a big treble clef, sort of arcing behind the stage and done in glitter so when the lights hit it, it would sparkle, etc. written across the staff was - yep, "miller hi life". tacky, to be sure, but the band stood in front of this sign and who looked at it anyway? joni, as part of her "set design" for this particular tour, had some hand painted banners that she had done. i am sure they were beautiful, and they were designed to be suspended over the stage and hang down, over her band. the promoters would not let her put them up because, they told her, the banners would obscure the miller high life sign, and as miller was sponsoring the concert series, this could not be allowed!!! so joni was (understandably) upset, if not enraged, before the concert ever began. this does not justify her behavior and the terrible way she treated her fans that night, me included!!! who had paid good money to see and hear her perform and had every right to expect her to give her all. but it does at least, make it understandable. her leaving the stage, and refusing to come back for so long, and then begrudgingly giving us a very abbreviated show had nothing to do with the "rowdy" fans. it had to do with her, apparently, trying to screw the promoters for not allowing her to present the show the way she wanted. but, in fact, she took it out on all of us. - ------------------------ Search the "Today" database: http://www.jmdl.com/today ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 20 Jul 2001 00:19:10 -0700 From: "Robert Holliston" Subject: Re: soul? NJC Thanks, Julius! Some of these artists appear on the Atlantic R&B compilation which was released about 15 years ago. A few favorites I'd like to add: LaVern Baker (who, sadly, passed away in 1997, but not before being inducted into the R&R Hall of Fame as an early influence), Ruth Brown (who is also remembered for her turn as Motormouth Maybelle in John Waters's Hairspray), "Big" Joe Turner (who was still making $50 a gig when he died in the saddle in 1985), Dinah Washington, Doris Troy, Johnny Hartman, Maxine Sullivan, Bessie Smith. And Charlie Christian who, if he hadn't died of TB at the age of 24, might well have become the most significant and influential jazz electric guitarist of the 20th century. Even so, he's still a very bright light. I've never known where Soul stops and R&B begins, so I'll just say that the two defining words for both are, for me, Ray + Charles. Any list of African Americans who have made indelible contributions to music is bound to be a very partial one. I'll stop now - I'm thinking of way too many wonderful musicians for one post.....plus, I just bought a double Thomas "Fats" Waller set: since he's an idol of mine (as a piano player, I admire his taste and musicianship, but envy his incredibly agile and laser-sharp left hand), my stereo's currently more attractive than my computer ;-) Julius, I agree with you: the music we love helps us get through the worst of times, and it enhances the best of times. God help us all if we didn't have that!! Love to all, Roberto Julius wrote: > >Lest we forget the African Americans, again, here is a very partial list of >performers who are the absolute embodiment of soul, IMO: > >James Brown, Aretha Franklin, Mahalia Jackson, Etta James, Diana Ross, >Andrea Crouch, Curtis Mayfield, Issac Hayes, B.B. King, Muddy Waters, >Robert >Johnson, Michael Jackson, Odetta, Marvin Gaye, Smokey Robinson, Wilson >Pickett, Bill Withers, Chuck Berry, Bryan Thomas, Little Richard, Miles >Davis, Charlie Parker, Patti Cathcart, John Lee Hooker, Duke Ellington, >Tammi Terrell, Tina Turner, Ray Charles, Otis Redding, Earl Klugh, Ella >Fitzgerald, Macy Gray, Whitney Houston, Herbie Hancock, Muddy Waters, >Grover >Washington, Jr.and scores and scores of others known and unknown. Thanks >to >them all for helping to make my life almost bearable in the worst of times >through their music. > >-Julius _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 20 Jul 2001 03:34:29 EDT From: BachelorNumero2@aol.com Subject: Joni, a cinematic influence...? DAMN RIGHT!!!! Joni definitely inspired me while i was finishing off my screenplay for the short film I just shot.......and HOSL was the primary record I was listening to!!! AND I do pay tribute in a scene which features a next door couple who is busy gardening and arguing.....I threw in a shot of a running sprinkler in the grass for Joni!!!! JONI ROCKS!!! PHIL ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 20 Jul 2001 09:59:58 +0100 From: Gordon Mackie Subject: Hidden Pleasures Hi Y'all Having just purchased a vinyl version of Courting Sparks, in quad no less (but no quad system), I hear all sorts of things on this pressing I never heard elsewhere.BUT..thats wasn't the real surprise. Peoples Parties just ends. No segue into Same Situation. They are two seperate tracks. I can't tell you how odd this sounded at first but I like it now. If anyone wants a tape let me know. If this has been covered before, I am soooo yesterday. Floria Tosca PS Saw a version of Tosca where she (Tosca) jumps of the parapets of Sant Angelo to kill herself but unfortunately the matress at the other side was too springy. Many returns of the soprano. It was side- splittingly hilarious. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 20 Jul 2001 13:28:38 +0100 From: Gordon Mackie Subject: The Human Race RobSher50@aol.com wrote Joan Baez sang a song called "Joe Hill" long ago which touched me to the roots. It was a song about the Union and the awful things which made it necessary in the 20's to start it. Interesingly, I heard the (mainly operatic) singer Willard White sing 'Joe Hill' in tribute concert to Paul Robeson. The whole experince was very moving and highly charged politically. You could have heard a pin drop. Byeee Clara Bandick (who played Auntie M in the Wizard of Oz) ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 20 Jul 2001 09:31:29 EDT From: FMYFL@aol.com Subject: Re: The Human Race (NJC) In a message dated 7/20/01 8:38:22 AM Eastern Daylight Time, gordon.mackie@strath.ac.uk writes: << Clara Bandick (who played Auntie M in the Wizard of Oz) >> Gordon, I think you've had a different kilt on every day this week. LOL I think her name is Clara BLandick, but your pronunciation sounds much better :~) Jimmy ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 20 Jul 2001 06:50:22 -0700 (PDT) From: "Lori R. Fye" Subject: Re: NJC suicide/black/books - long > did you mean to put lesbian and mushing the in the same line? Well, Colin ... I guess I did! ; ) Lori ~ Get personalized email addresses from Yahoo! Mail - only $35 a year! http://personal.mail.yahoo.com/ ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 20 Jul 2001 10:12:40 EDT From: MDESTE1@aol.com Subject: Re: Subject: Re: Okay now I'm REALLY steamed ... (md) (njc, no ... really NJC) All I can say about this whine over government spending and "wasted" taxpayer funds a question: Where have you been for the last eight years while 15000 trips were made on taxpayer money for DNC and Hillary fundraising. The Lewinsky lie coverup alone cost 10 million. Not to investigate it; to cover it up and deny it and defend it all the way to the futile Supreme Court efforts (2) to claim executive priviledge which every lawyer in the world said would fail. Still went ahead. How about $500,000 per year for secret service porotection for Chelsea SINCE Clinton has been out of office. He put that one in by executive order one hour before he left office and it was unprecedented. Nixon was villified for putting a $30,000 fence around his San Clemente house WHILE he was in office. I think I could probably send a zip file of a billion megs of this stuff. So carp on kids. Welcome back. Glad to know youve all regained consciousness and recovered from your comas. LOL. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 20 Jul 2001 10:30:28 EDT From: SCJoniGuy@aol.com Subject: Re: Some thoughts on Joni and movies and pictures << Are we not in agreement that THOSL was a precursor if not a direct influence on The Ice Storm, American Beauty and all these angsty movies about rich whites who have lost their spark from manicured lawns, Honeywell security systems, and safe employment.>> HOSL can certainly be grouped in with those films, but the theme of "deconstructing the Leave it to Beaver myth" is pretty common...besides, it's only one of the themes of HOSL...Boho Dance, Don't Interrupt the Sorrow, In France They Kiss on Main Street, maybe Sweet Bird don't really fit in the chain of events or the theme of The Great American Dream souring... << Ive heard that she released a video collection called Come In From The Cold. It had a video of Beat of Black Wings. Was this an actual video or just a live performance. Does anyone have information on this.>> Wally already confirmed the existence of it...While I like the majority of the clips, I really didn't care for BOBW...Joni doesn't look very black, and she's acting like a side alley wino or something, falling one way & another...hopefully SOMEONE close to her told her that it didn't work so at least THEIR conscience can be clear... << I really think that Paprika Plains would have made a great short film. >> Possibly, and in the right hands, but it would be next to impossible to duplicate the images that the song creates in my head on the screen. It would have to be pretty abstract & I'm not sure you could get it to play for 16 minutes worth. But hey, grab a camcorder & go for it! :~) Bob NP: Rob Jackson, "No Secrets" (The perfect record for a rainy beach morning...) ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 20 Jul 2001 07:40:32 -0700 (PDT) From: Don Rowe Subject: Re: Subject: Re: Okay now I'm REALLY steamed ... (md) (njc, no ... really NJC) - --- MDESTE1@aol.com wrote: > How about > $500,000 per year for secret > service porotection for Chelsea SINCE Clinton has > been out of office. Marcel has a point, the costs of guarding the Bush girls is an investment ... one that's already paid a $600 dividend in misdemeanor underage drinking fines, which is outperforming the heck out of MY stock portfolio at the moment. Can't wait to see how it does over the long term. ;-) > Nixon was villified for putting a > $30,000 fence around his San > Clemente house WHILE he was in office. Funny, I thought Nixon was villified for orchestrating an illegal break-in to the Democratic National Headquarters offices in the Watergate building, and then obstructing justice via an elaborate cover-up. That had to cost something ... > Welcome back. Glad to > know youve all regained consciousness and recovered > from your comas. LOL. Like I said, think the jmdl is boring? Wait 5 posts! Thanks to everyone ... in the end, the only person who was truly wrong was heJIRa@aol ... Tee-hee! And guys, I assure you my tongue is planted firmly in-cheek on this post ... ;-) Don Rowe ===== Visit me anytime at http://www.mp3.com/donrowe Get personalized email addresses from Yahoo! Mail http://personal.mail.yahoo.com/ ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 20 Jul 2001 08:10:40 -0700 From: "Mark or Travis" Subject: Re: Some thoughts on Joni and movies and pictures .>> > > HOSL can certainly be grouped in with those films, but the theme of > "deconstructing the Leave it to Beaver myth" is pretty common...besides, it's > only one of the themes of HOSL...Boho Dance, Don't Interrupt the Sorrow, In > France They Kiss on Main Street, maybe Sweet Bird don't really fit in the > chain of events or the theme of The Great American Dream souring... 'You read those books where luxury Comes as a guest to take a slave' 'Truth goes up in vapors Steeples lean Winds of change, patriarchs Snug in your Bible Belt dreams' 'And a woman was fading in a suburban room ... 'And I told him, 'they don't take chances They seem so removed from romance They've been broken in churches and schools And molded to middle class circumstance' 'Golden in time Cities under the sand Power, ideals and beauty Fading in everyone's hands' All depends on how you look at it, my friend. Mark in Seattle heading up to Lummi Island today for some R&R - back sometime Sunday. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 20 Jul 2001 08:40:01 -0700 From: Willy Keats Subject: Newbie here, looking for old trees Hi, I just joined up here after receiving one of the list CDs in a trade and following the artwork link. Can anybody help me get up to date on any of the old trees? I only have one disc, from Bethel NY 98. Thanks anybody who can help... (Of course, send replies to me, not the list! wkeats@earthlink.net) WK ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 20 Jul 2001 11:55:33 EDT From: FredNow@aol.com Subject: Re: Re: soul? NJC Kakki at KakkiB@worldnet.att.net wrote:: >> And more JMDL'ers to add to the long list of those who hit me right in >the solar plexus: Bryan Thomas, Marian Russell, Sherelle, Gary Zack, Clark, >>JULIUS, Paz, Lahm, Fred Simon, the Dulsons and Craig Harris (who is so >busy being souful and funkiful we rarely hear from him here ;-) Thanks for the sweet words, Kakki. - -Fred Simon ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 20 Jul 2001 08:59:48 -0700 (PDT) From: Alison E Subject: Re: Paul Weller/Newport Folk NJC - --- Whizzboom@aol.com wrote: > Also, I'm contemplating buying a 2-day ticket for > this years Newport Folk > blowout, and I'm wondering if anyone knows what > accomodations are available > for over-nighters. > -Chris > NP:JM-"Love" hey chris, i think i may be going to newport i (well i know i'll be in newport, i just am hoping to go to the saturday show at the folk fest). i will be there, i haven't bought the ticket yet, but i hope to go. let me know what you're plans are, and maybe we could hook up. i will probably find a cheap hotel room somewhere around. i dont know about camping, but i'd guess you have to have a pass, or reservation or something. i don't know. anyone else out there going to newport folk fest? alison e. in nyc Get personalized email addresses from Yahoo! Mail http://personal.mail.yahoo.com/ ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 20 Jul 2001 09:08:31 -0700 (PDT) From: Alison E Subject: Re: soul? NJC - --- "J. R. Mills" wrote: > > > Here's a very incomplete list of some > musicians/performers who have soul, in > my humble opinion: > Dave Wakeling, Alison Einerson, Ricki Lee Jones... > > -Julius i got soooouuuuuuuuuuuulllllllll and i'm supah baaaaaaaaaaaaaaad thanks, jules! and you ain't even heard me sing janis... ;-) how truling flattering. love, alison "supahsoul" e. in nyc Get personalized email addresses from Yahoo! Mail http://personal.mail.yahoo.com/ ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 20 Jul 2001 09:27:40 -0700 (PDT) From: Medric Faulkner Subject: Tube's Gone No Color No Contrast Boy, move to the shadows for a while and the discussion here sure gets lively. I grew up in relative isolation in rural Mississippi at the end of a dirt road and in the middle of a National Forest. You get the idea, we piped in the sunshine and ran to the front door to see who was passing if we heard a car. From birth I was taught to hate and fear and suspect anyone different from myself. Our mantra was: 2, 4, 6, 8, We don't want to integrate; 8, 4, 6, 2, Send'em back to Toogaloo. Toogaloo being a local "Black" college. Integration came our way when I was in 9th grade and at the same time I started listening to Bob Dylan, Joan Baez, Melanie and later Joni Mitchell. My professional life, 25 years now, has been in service to a predominantly black community and I'm proud to say that the black teachers who work under my supervision and the parents of the students I serve remind me often that I'm really "one of them." Exposure to the music of the time, I believe, which came through at a time social upheaval here changed me and others though, I'm sorry to say, those that remained ignorant get the press coverage. I find what Joni has to say most profound and I crave and miss her commentary. Hope she's got the cauldron brewing and we'll get to hear her skewer 'em with new material in a few years. Medric Get personalized email addresses from Yahoo! Mail http://personal.mail.yahoo.com/ ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 20 Jul 2001 11:50:33 -0600 From: Bounced Message Subject: jonis speaking voice From: "Greer, Ron" Date: Fri, 20 Jul 2001 10:00:46 +0200 hi i just need to know if i have a serious problem here, or if other people have experienced the same thing. ive managed to snag a couple of live joni recordings from various sources (a big* thank you to all those sources) while i do absolutely love the music (esp. "day in the garden" & "gene autrey western heritage museum) i find that i keep on listening to the portions in between songs, where joni is speaking. and, while i do find what she says interesting, the main reason is that i just absolutely love the sound of her voice - its just so hypnotic!!! do other people feel the same way about her speaking voice??? ron ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 20 Jul 2001 11:03:39 -0700 (PDT) From: Alison E Subject: Re: NJC - Racism, Letterman, DiFranco - --- Michael Paz wrote: > > Ani DiFranco was scheduled to appear on "Late > Night with David Letterman" > > tonight. She had planned to perform "Subdivision," > a song about rascism that > > begins, "White people are so scared of black > people, they bulldoze out to the > > country." Producers at "Late Night" tried to > convince her to sing a more > > "up-beat" song. When she refused, her segment was > cancelled. > > > > You can read the article at > > http://washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A17763-2001Jul18.html because i think it's important, i'm going to print the lyrics to the song this was about. sorry for the pro-ani bandwidth, but in light of the recent discussion on race, i think it relevant. alison e. in nyc "subdivision" - --ani d. white people are so scared of black people they bulldoze out to the country and put up houses on little loop-dee-loop streets and while america gets its heart cut right out of its chest the berlin wall still runs down main street separating east side from west and nothing is stirring, not even a mouse in the boarded-up stores and the broken-down houses so they hang colorful banners off all the street lamps just to prove they got no manners no mercy and no sense and i'm wondering what it will take for my city to rise first we admit our mistakes then we open our eyes the ghosts of old buildings are haunting parking lots in the city of good neighbors that history forgot i remember the first time i saw someone lying on the cold street i thought: i can't just walk past here this can't just be true but i learned by example to just keep moving my feet it's amazing the things that we all learn to do so we're led by denial like lambs to the slaughter serving empires of style and carbonated sugar water and the old farm road's a four-lane that leads to the mall and our dreams are all guillotines waiting to fall i'm wondering what it will take for my country to rise first we admit our mistakes and then we open our eyes or nature succumbs to one last dumb decision and america the beautiful is just one big subdivision words and music by ani difranco ) 2001 righteous babe music / BMI Get personalized email addresses from Yahoo! Mail http://personal.mail.yahoo.com/ ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 20 Jul 2001 10:46:05 -0700 From: "J. R. Mills" Subject: Re: Tube's Gone No Color No Contrast/soul - NJC and long Thank you for this honest account, Medric. My feeling is that there is nothing more soulful than accountability, forgiveness, redemption and fortitude. Artists who have what I consider soul musically exude some or all of those qualities in their work. I feel a little silly, but I'm tearful when I hear stories such as yours...people who unlearn prejudice and then strive for positive change. It's not an easy thing to do, as the path of least resistance in most such circumstances is to merely maintain the status quo. I know you not, but I find myself feeling quite proud of you. And thank you so much for mentioning my dear Melanie! I wore out a cassette tape I had of her eponymous album by playing "Candles in the Rain" full blast every morning to pump myself up to attend the all white (except me), affluent military institution in Texas where I went to high school. Black and poor, I was subjected to racial vitriol every single day. Some of my tormentors then are among my closest friends today. Mysterious ways... Also, I regret not mentioning so many people on this list who I have so enjoyed hearing perform over the years I've been a part of this community in my soul artists list. Particularly David Lahm, Paz, Clark, Jody, Kakki, Anne Sandstrom, John van Tiel, Bob Muller, Chuck Eisenhardt, Les Irvin, Marian Russell, Tom Ross, Sue McNamara, Nikki Johnson, Patricia Hillis, Lori Century, Terry Matlen, Wally Kairuz, Steve Mixon, Patrick Leader, Bill Dollinger and many more of you who I will undoubtedly remember to appreciate as soon as I hit the "send" button. Believe me when I say you all have soul and you have all surely touched mine. An essential element of soul music appreciation, in my mind, is "abandon" -a thorough yielding to positive natural impulses with exuberance. The music, as Medric said, can move you. As the very soulful Negro Baseball League legend Satchel Paige is quoted as saying: "Work like you don't need the money. Love like you've never been hurt. Dance like nobody's watching." If one wants to have soul, God knows it is surely reserved for you regardless of ethnicity. - -Julius np: Melanie "Candles in the Rain" Medric wrote: > From birth I was taught to hate and fear and > suspect anyone different from myself. Our mantra was: > 2, 4, 6, 8, We don't want to integrate; 8, 4, 6, 2, > Send'em back to Toogaloo. Toogaloo being a local > "Black" college. Integration came our way when I was > in 9th grade and at the same time I started listening > to Bob Dylan, Joan Baez, Melanie and later Joni > Mitchell. My professional life, 25 years now, has been > in service to a predominantly black community and I'm > proud to say that the black teachers who work under my > supervision and the parents of the students I serve > remind me often that I'm really "one of them." > Exposure to the music of the time, I believe, which > came through at a time social upheaval here changed me > and others though, ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 20 Jul 2001 11:23:06 -0700 (PDT) From: Alison E Subject: Re: joni line [njc]/ blackness - --- colin wrote: > -------Original Message------- > From: Mark or Travis: > But in the end, I want to be > color-blind. But I have to > honestly admit that I'm just not there yet. i think this is the most important idea, and its an idea that people are so terrified of. admitting it, admitting that you have had/still have racist thougts, that sometimes you are taken aback by things that pop into your head, even though they're shameful and hurtful and based in an ideology that you thought education/understanding/exposure eradicated from your heart and soul... to the point that we can't talk about it because people want to use the phrase "politically correct" to subdivide and conquer even more.. to the point where ani difranco can't go on national television and sing a beautiful and poignant song about racism in america becuase the network thinks people will get angry at having to look at themselves reflected in that song. because the song is true, the lyrics reflect a reality that we all know and we all see but are too afraid to admit. because cosby had a successful show on primtime time tv, and they were like a doctor and lawyer, right? so there's no more racism, see? and hey, look at colin powell! and wait, hey look at tiger woods (forget that fried chicken/country club crack, that was just one unique thing..) > Living authentically, really getting to grips with > yourself and how you > think is not easy at all and requires courage. this is absolutely true. it takes a tremendous amount of courage. and its courageous of all of us to admit that we have preconcieved notions of each other, whether they're based on race or class or gender or sexuality (oops, sorry, marcel, my left-wing indoctrination/education is showing! ;-)). but in order to change things, we have to have the discussion, we have to be free to ask each other questions, to occasionally offend, to admit our ignorances, in order to learn. we have to be uncomfortable sometimes. and thank you, julius and sherelle and everyone, for being willing focal points and answering questions with honesty and integrity. my 2 cents. or 2 dollars. the above statement based solely in my experience, and is of course, imho. alison e. in nyc np: ani, revelling. Get personalized email addresses from Yahoo! Mail http://personal.mail.yahoo.com/ ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 20 Jul 2001 11:28:57 -0700 (PDT) From: Don Rowe Subject: Re: jonis speaking voice Absolutely ... Joni's speaking voice is mesmerizing. It walks an ethereal tightrope stretched between the boundaries of speaking and singing. The lilt and phrasing of her speech makes me think that living and working with her must be something akin to inhabiting a real-life musical ... at any moment you'd expect her to break into song. Every unfinished thought a break ... every afterthought a coda ... there's no doubt that Joni Mithcell is one of the great "musical" speakers. Don Rowe ===== Visit me anytime at http://www.mp3.com/donrowe Get personalized email addresses from Yahoo! Mail http://personal.mail.yahoo.com/ ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 20 Jul 2001 12:40:29 -0600 From: "shane mattison" Subject: make-up artist joni divulged an incredible secret once in the company of warren beatty...the dialogue went something like the following... Joni: you know, you know, warren, what was found when tammy faye baker took off all her make-up, you know? Warren: i uh, i uh...gee, let's see...uh...gee i donno joni....what could it be? Joni: jimmy hoffa! ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 20 Jul 2001 11:36:44 -0700 From: Randy Remote Subject: Re: Subject: Re: Okay now I'm REALLY steamed ... (md) (njc, no... really NJC) Arguing over which brand of political criminal is the worse is like arguing over 7Up or Mountain Dew. They are more alike than they are different, and if they can fool us into fighting over their minor differences, they have achieved their goal: to insure that the millionares continue to run everything, and the people pay for everything. I can't say it any clearer than that. As far as the tax rebate: Bush's team was sitting, shooting the bull one day, and somebody said, "It's too bad we can't just BUY people's votes, legally, and with their own money". RR MDESTE1@aol.com wrote: > All I can say about this whine over government spending and "wasted" taxpayer > funds a question: Where have you been for the last eight years while 15000 > trips were made on taxpayer money for DNC and Hillary fundraising. The > Lewinsky lie coverup alone cost 10 million. Not to investigate it; to cover > it up and deny it and defend it all the way to the futile Supreme Court > efforts (2) to claim executive priviledge which every lawyer in the world > said would fail. Still went ahead. How about $500,000 per year for secret > service porotection for Chelsea SINCE Clinton has been out of office. He put > that one in by executive order one hour before he left office and it was > unprecedented. Nixon was villified for putting a $30,000 fence around his San > Clemente house WHILE he was in office. I think I could probably send a zip > file of a billion megs of this stuff. So carp on kids. Welcome back. Glad to > know youve all regained consciousness and recovered from your comas. LOL. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 20 Jul 2001 12:19:37 -0700 (PDT) From: Alison E Subject: Re: joni line [njc]/ blackness (now NJC) now PC - --- hell wrote: > wallyk wrote: > > > as to blackness and PC, do blacks take offence > when referred to as blacks? (snip) > This is something I've always wondered about too. > What is the PC term at > the moment? > not to jump in anyone's shit, individually, here. but "politically correct" is my biggest pet peeve. it might be the PC term of the moment to you, but it might very possibly be ownership and recognition of identity to someone else. its something real, and very meaningful to some. the whole idea of PC started with people claiming their own identity, rather than having their identity handed to them by dominant culture. i.e., "indians" become "native americans" becuase they claimed that terminology. they really weren't indians, they didnt come from india, that was christopher columbus' fuck up, not theirs. so why carry around that label, for three hundred plus years? which is not to say that all native americans did, many did and still do refer to tribal affiliation. as my friend alvin says, he's navajo, not indian. but i'm just trying to give an example here. african-american to some is a meaningful connection to a land and a heritage, and retains the american connection because that's not easily dismissible. (i don't mean to be a spokesperson by any means, i'm just giving my own interpretation. you could use this analogy in any number of situations). people, a person, an individual, has the ultimate right to be referred to as whatever they desire. so, if one person refers to themselves as black, and and another fag, another irish-american, and another african-american, and another human, then that's not "PC term" of the moment that's ownership of language and comfort in identity. i guess the point i'm trying to make is, if you called a black man a negroe, is that bad because it's not "PC"? or is it bad because it's disrespectful and quite possibly hurtful? or as my friend shondra (who is black) here says, "you call me what makes YOU the most comfortable. i'd rather have you comfortably call me black than trip and stumble over the term african-american. but i don't recommend you call me nigger." words are powerful and meaningful, and they have real consequences. that's the point i'm trying to make. alison e. in nyc Get personalized email addresses from Yahoo! Mail http://personal.mail.yahoo.com/ ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 20 Jul 2001 11:50:33 -0700 From: "Kakki" Subject: Re: Subject: Re: Okay now I'm REALLY steamed ... (md) (njc, no... really NJC) Randy, >Arguing over which brand of political criminal is the worse is > like arguing over 7Up or Mountain Dew. I agree, except to when it comes to a point where there is no discrimination at all when comparing various proven and alleged political "criminals." I may not know as many facts as you do regarding person X and likewise you may now as many facts regarding person Y as I do, and wouldn't it be nice if we could exchange knowledge to a positive end or common goal? It seems so much political debate the past few years devolves down to the lowest name-calling, innuendo, smears, spin, and then finally lumping every wrongdoing, whether it be laughably miniscule (Jenna Bush caught drinking in college at age 19) or something more evident of serious misappropriation of the public's money (Chelsea Clinton at legal age of 21 receiving Secret Service protection for an open-ended term long after her father has left office) into "it's all the same thing." What about the people (Dan Rather, Barbara Boxer, NOW and others) who rabidly, like hounds went after Packwood and forced him out of office because in his doddering moments he chased a couple secretaries around a desk and tried to kiss them, but who now refuse to address or dillute any question or judgment on Congressman Condit, whose former girlfriend is missing and presumed dead? Do we really want to continue to give up our all of our discriminating judgment for the sake of some stupid political party? I'd rather reserve some of my brains intact than to give them over wholesale to help out some political hack or another. I'd rather engage in discussions that enlighten me when it comes to opposing viewpoints, so that there is an exchange of something substantive and real, rather than seeing who wins the point by intimidation and obscuring the issue. We don't do ourselves ANY favors as fellow citizens by continuing to promote such ultimately non-productive pursuits. As for the "evil" millionaires running the world, we need to narrow that down a bit and identify which particular millionaires are running the world before we can come to any productive approach towards resolving whatever evil they are inflicting on us, don't we? By lumping all millionaires together as collectively running the world, we lump in Joni Mitchell and most of our favorite artists, groundbreaking medical researchers, brilliant scientists and inventors, and many good hardworking people who take the risks to create and sustain employment for us. Do we want to lock all of them up in the Gulag? I guess some people would like that, but it ain't my thing, and like it or not, is probably not a pressing goal of most Americans. I think we need to be more specific, more fact-based, and more thoughtful in addressing our problems if we really and sincerely want to solve them. If we do nothing but continue to run around hunting down petty inanities, we do nothing but give the brokers of evil more power. I'm sure they sit back and laugh at us like we are little monkeys squawking away - in fact, I think they love nothing better than for us to continue bickering with each other over mostly B.S. rather than look at what they are really up to. Kakki ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 20 Jul 2001 12:51:17 -0700 (PDT) From: Don Rowe Subject: Re: Subject: Re: Okay now I'm REALLY steamed ... (md) (njc, no... really NJC) - --- Kakki wrote: > As for the "evil" millionaires running the world, we > need to narrow that > down a bit and identify which particular > millionaires are running the world Millionaires simply don't have the resources to run the world anymore ... at least not since the days of Hurst, Vanderbilt, Morgan and Co. Today you've got to be a "multi-billionaire" to really push the global economy around, and so far as I can see, Global Enemy #1 is: Bill Gates And not only that, his competition is so far behind him as to hardly merit inclusion on the list! ;-) Don Rowe ===== Visit me anytime at http://www.mp3.com/donrowe Get personalized email addresses from Yahoo! Mail http://personal.mail.yahoo.com/ ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 20 Jul 2001 15:58:10 EDT From: RoseMJoy@aol.com Subject: Re: jonis speaking voice In a message dated 7/20/01 1:55:18 PM Eastern Daylight Time, les@jmdl.com writes: > do other people feel the same way about her speaking voice??? > > absolutely, she is simply eloquent. Rose in NJ rosemjoy@aol.com ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 20 Jul 2001 16:01:30 EDT From: SCJoniGuy@aol.com Subject: Re: NJC - Racism, Letterman, DiFranco Thanks for printing those lyrics, Alison... Although I've had "Revelling/Reckoning" since the day it came out, it's just now starting to creep into my psyche... Bob NP: Ani, "Heartbreak Even" ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 20 Jul 2001 16:05:40 EDT From: SCJoniGuy@aol.com Subject: Re: Tube's Gone No Color No Contrast/soul - NJC and long << Believe me when I say you all have soul and you have all surely touched mine. >> I've really enjoyed reading this discussion, and especially good to hear so many different voices. I believe that soul is something we all have. Giving it voice is more of a challenge. But even given that, I can never hope to attain the "Sam Cooke" level! ;~) Bob ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 20 Jul 2001 12:28:54 -0700 From: "Kakki" Subject: Re: Subject: Re: Okay now I'm REALLY steamed ... (md) (njc, no... really NJC) Don wrote: > Millionaires simply don't have the resources to run > the world anymore ... at least not since the days of > Hurst, Vanderbilt, Morgan and Co. Of course, you are correct. I'm showing my age here. I feel very left behind these days when I hear some people say that being a millionaire is just being middle class these days. I am way below the poverty level if that is true! Millionaires do seem to be a dime a dozen these days (although maybe not recently since the bottom has fallen out in the dot.com biz) > Today you've got to be a "multi-billionaire" to really > push the global economy around, and so far as I can > see, Global Enemy #1 is: > > Bill Gates > > And not only that, his competition is so far behind > him as to hardly merit inclusion on the list! ;-) Well, the multi-billionaires *are* a much smaller group. I always enjoy reading that yearly rundown of their annual "summit" in Vanity Fair. As for Gates, it seems like he has been roped up a bit by the Dept. of Justice the past couple of years. I haven't paid much attention to the stuff going on with him. But I'd bet the newly-made millionaire employees of Microsoft up there in Seattle don't wish any trouble ;-) Kakki ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 20 Jul 2001 16:10:55 EDT From: SCJoniGuy@aol.com Subject: Re: Some thoughts on Joni and movies and pictures << All depends on how you look at it, my friend. >> True, but I would say that it's an injustice to Joni's best work to say that any of her records revolves around a single concept. They're so much more complex than that. That's why I'm here; I knew damn well that I could never figure it out on my own! Bob ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 20 Jul 2001 13:19:25 -0700 (PDT) From: Don Rowe Subject: Re: Subject: Re: Okay now I'm REALLY steamed ... (md) (njc, no... really NJC) - --- Kakki wrote: As for > Gates, it seems like he has been roped up a bit by > the Dept. of Justice the > past couple of years. Don't let that fool you for a minute. Nothing the Justice Dept. has done, or can do, will undo, change or even lessen the fetal dependence of the world economy on the Windows operating system. Removing InterNet Explorer from the OS bundle is little more than tweezing an eyebrow hair or two off the real monopoly power they've built out there in Seattle. In fact, breaking the company up would have been merely another three or four such eyebrows. Don Rowe ===== Visit me anytime at http://www.mp3.com/donrowe Get personalized email addresses from Yahoo! Mail http://personal.mail.yahoo.com/ ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 20 Jul 2001 13:17:06 -0700 From: "Kakki" Subject: Re: Mr. Gates (NJC) Don, Because I'm really not well-versed at all in the Gates proceedings, I can't tell if you are joking again here or not! ;-) Is the problem that he has a monopoly or that there is something more nefarious in his "ownership" and control of computer and net operating systems, or both? I used to hear people say he stuff like he is the antichrist and the most powerful man in the world, etc., but didn't pay much attention to it (it's that nerdy look of his that fools me maybe). Is he going to somehow "pull the plug" on all of us one of these days?? As for monopolies in general, they do seem a little evil on the surface (too much power in one place), but then again, sometimes when one is broken up, it doesn't necessarily always create a fair balance of power. Sometimes smaller monopolies evolve and have an almost extortionate control over certain regions (the only game in town so they can charge whatever suits their fancy). We've been experiencing the downside of what first looked like a good idea (deregulation, reduction of control of power monopolies) here in California with the so-called "electricity crisis." It seems sometimes that you stamp one fire out only to have another one erupt right behind you. Kakki > > Gates, it seems like he has been roped up a bit by > > the Dept. of Justice the > > past couple of years. > > Don't let that fool you for a minute. Nothing the > Justice Dept. has done, or can do, will undo, change > or even lessen the fetal dependence of the world > economy on the Windows operating system. Removing > InterNet Explorer from the OS bundle is little more > than tweezing an eyebrow hair or two off the real > monopoly power they've built out there in Seattle. In > fact, breaking the company up would have been merely > another three or four such eyebrows. > > Don Rowe > > ===== > Visit me anytime at http://www.mp3.com/donrowe > Get personalized email addresses from Yahoo! Mail > http://personal.mail.yahoo.com/ ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 20 Jul 2001 14:06:52 -0700 (PDT) From: Don Rowe Subject: Re: Mr. Gates (NJC) - --- Kakki wrote: > Don, > > Because I'm really not well-versed at all in the > Gates proceedings, I can't > tell if you are joking again here or not! ;-) Is the Well, I'm not accusing Gates et al of anything "covert" or "nefarious." It just seems to me the fact that fundamental control of 95% of the world's computers resting in the hands of a single company, and dependent on that company's flagship product, is inherently dangerous ... and puts that company (MicroSoft) in an unparalleled position of power. No, Gates can't "pull the plug" literally, but what he CAN do (and is doing) is to make all new-generation MS software incompatible with anything but his LATEST operating system, thereby forcing the world the buy it, or go back to paper transactions. This is plenty alarming enough for me ... far more so than the fictional conspiracy theories about Microsoft's supposed "Big Brotherhood" could ever be. And this time, I'm dead serious. Don Rowe ===== Visit me anytime at http://www.mp3.com/donrowe Get personalized email addresses from Yahoo! Mail http://personal.mail.yahoo.com/ ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 20 Jul 2001 14:25:59 -0700 From: "Kate Bennett" Subject: Subject: Re: NJC - Racism, Letterman, DiFranco It was written: Phuck Letterman, They DON'T have a clue! I can't think of a better time than now for her to be singing that song. Pathetic really...artists whose works are racist, homophobic, misogynist (joking or not)are lauded while artists who speak against that s@#$ are are squealched...sad commentary on the perversion of those in charge of such things...maybe Ani should have said it was a joke, it was a character in her song & she really didn't mean what she was saying ... ******************************************** Kate Bennett www.katebennett.com sponsored by Polysonics www.polysonics.com Discover the Indies at Taylor Guitars: http://www.taylorguitars.com/artists/awp/indies/bennett.html ******************************************** ------------------------------ End of JMDL Digest V2001 #304 ***************************** ------- Post messages to the list by clicking here: mailto:joni@smoe.org Unsubscribe by clicking here: mailto:joni-digest-request@smoe.org?body=unsubscribe ------- Siquomb, isn't she?