From: les@jmdl.com (JMDL Digest) To: joni-digest@smoe.org Subject: JMDL Digest V2001 #302 Reply-To: joni@smoe.org Sender: les@jmdl.com Errors-To: les@jmdl.com Precedence: bulk Unsubscribe: mailto:joni-digest-request@smoe.org?body=unsubscribe Archives: http://www.smoe.org/lists/joni Websites: http://www.jmdl.com http://www.jonimitchell.com JMDL Digest Thursday, July 19 2001 Volume 2001 : Number 302 The Official Joni Mitchell Homepage, created by Wally Breese, can be found at http://www.jonimitchell.com. It contains the latest news, a detailed bio, Original Interviews, essays, lyrics and much much more. The JMDL website can be found at http://www.jmdl.com and contains interviews, articles, the member gallery, archives, and much more. Information on the 4th "Annual" New England JoniFest: http://www.jmdl.com/jfne2001.cfm ========== TOPICS and authors in this Digest: -------- Re: joni line [njc]/ blackness ["Mark or Travis" ] Re: soul? NJC ["Mark or Travis" ] Re: Okay now I'm REALLY steamed ... (njc, no ... really NJC) [Brian Gross] Re: Okay now I'm REALLY steamed ... (njc, no ... really NJC) [Don Rowe ] Re: Joni's Medicinewheel [RoseMJoy@aol.com] Re: NJC suicide/black/books - long ["Lori R. Fye" ] Re: soul? NJC ["J. R. Mills" ] Re: Soul (sjc) [RobSher50@aol.com] Mimi Farina [hessj@ix.netcom.com] RE: NJC - Dorothy Parker correction ["Wally Kairuz" ] Re: Okay now I'm REALLY steamed ... (njc, no ... really NJC) [Vince Lavie] Re: NJC suicide/black/books - long ["Kakki" ] Bigots and otherwise ["Sharon L. Buffington" ] Neil Young at 17 NJC ["Kate Bennett" ] Re: Okay now I'm REALLY steamed ... (njc, no ... really NJC) [Relayer211@] Re: joni line [njc]/ blackness ["colin" ] Some thoughts on Joni and movies and pictures [Lazyasz@aol.com] Re: Soul (sjc) ["colin" ] Re: Okay now I'm REALLY steamed ... (njc, no ... really NJC) ["colin" ] Re: Bigots and otherwise ["colin" ] RE: Some thoughts on Joni and movies and pictures ["Wally Kairuz" ] A new Joni for Foni !!! [Fonimitchell@aol.com] Re: Shake the Willy [Catherine McKay ] NJC W sleaze and ice and global warming [Vince Lavieri ] Re: Lively Up The List (was UNSUBSCRIBE ME PLEASE) [Bruyere ] Re: NJC W sleaze and ice and global warming ["Kakki" ] ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Thu, 19 Jul 2001 11:32:21 -0700 From: "Mark or Travis" Subject: Re: joni line [njc]/ blackness No matter what, I think they > will learn that we have always welcomed all kinds of people into our home > and never made a big deal about what colour they were or sexual preferences > etc. They have also seen many a sick child coming from Honduras to a US > hospital that have overnighted with us and have learned that loving and > caring for all mankind is the true path to follow. > > Thanks for the post > > Michael What lucky kids you have, Michael. If my upbringing had been more like that, I would not have to work so hard to clear out some of the stupid shit that still clutters up the dark corners of my brain. Not that my parents were raving bigots but they weren't exactly without their prejudices & misconceptions. I grew up in a town in Iowa of about 16,000 people. I went to school with black kids from the time I was in kindergarten. For a long time, they were the only 'others' I knew about. I remember when the high school staged a production of 'South Pacific' I didn't understand what the 'race' issue was all about. Those Polynesians weren't black people! What was the problem? To me, growing up in a very limited world, every one who wasn't African American was white. So to me, Michael, you would have been another white kid. I remember seeing 'Guess Who's Coming to Dinner' when I was a young teen. It's a corny & dated movie with some very silly things in it, but it did start me to thinking. Later on, I can still remember the night that my mother & I watched the very first episode of 'All in the Family'. We nearly wet ourselves laughing and eventually I came to understand that Archie Bunker was funny because of the utter ignorance & stupidity of his thinking. I also began to see some of the jokes and racial slurs I had snickered at and some times uttered myself as a child as being in the same vein of stupid & ignorant thinking. Passed on to my parents from their parents (some of whom *were* truly bigoted people) and hence to me. So I cannot honestly say that I have completely eradicated some of the idiotic things I grew up hearing about from people who were supposed to be wiser than me. I can only say that I do my best to try & see people for what they are underneath the 'joke' that God has played on us by making us all appear to be different. And yes, I acknowledge that each of is different - unique and special in our own way - and I think cultures and backgrounds are important and worth remembering and preserving. But in the end, I want to be color-blind. But I have to honestly admit that I'm just not there yet. Mark in Seattle ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 19 Jul 2001 11:38:27 -0700 From: "Mark or Travis" Subject: Re: soul? NJC > Grace Slick on Dreams, Tracy Chapman, Janis Ian and several others. Grace Slick on anything, imo. I'm amazed nobody's mentioned Laura Nyro and Dusty Springfield! Mark in Seattle ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 19 Jul 2001 14:56:18 -0400 From: Brian Gross Subject: Re: Okay now I'm REALLY steamed ... (njc, no ... really NJC) Now wait a minute... I got MY piece of mail from the IRS (Notice 1275 June 2001) that has a red rectangular box top center of the address panel that reads "Enclosed is an important message from the IRS on the status and amount of immediate tax relief. Do not throw away!" The text inside has no such shite as Don/Larry quotes and reads as follows: "Dear Taxpayer: We are pleased to inform you that the United States Congress passed and President George W. Bush signed into law the Economic Growth and Tax Relief Reconciliation Act of 2001, which provides long-term tax relief for all Americans who pay income taxes. The new law provides immediate tax relief in 2001 and long-term tax relief for the years to come. As part of the immediate tax relief, you will be receiving a check in the amount of $600.00 during the week of 9/10/2001. Your amount is based on information you submitted on your 2000 federal tax return and is just the first installment of the long-term tax relief provided by the new law. The amount of the check could be reduced by any outstanding federal debt you owe, such as past due child support or federal or state income taxes. You need to take no additional steps. Your check will be mailed to you. You will not be required to report the amount as taxable income on your federal tax return. On the reverse side of this letter is information on how your check amount was calculated. If you need additional information, please visit the IRS web site at www.irs.gov or call 1-800-829-4477. Please keep a copy of this notice with your tax records." Don Rowe wrote: > > Upon arriving home after a harrowing commute through > the St. Louis horizontal rain ... I find an envelope > in the mail bearing the logo of the Internal Revenue > Service and a diagonal stamp in blood red ink that > reads: > > "Important Information Concerning Your Tax Return" > > Now I live partially under a rock, sure, but even I > know this isn't an Audit. They're announcing that I'm > going to receive the highest possible rebate ($600 > whole bucks, no less), under W's recently decreed > Death Sentence for Social Security, Medicare and > management of the National Debt. > > I also know that there's only a 33 1/3% chance that > this is, in fact, the case -- since 2 out of 3 of > these missives were fired off errantly due to an IRS > software glitch. > > Now this is all a slow-simmer kind of annoyance at > this point. The real boil comes when I open the > stupid thing ... > > And discover that it's really a campaign ad. Written > in the most pandering, obsequious marketing language > imaginable ... mercilessly flogging W's supposed > "munificent, magnanimous benefecence in his visionary > stewardship ... blah-blah-blah". Phooey! > > But then again, what did I expect? > > Don Rowe > > ===== > Visit me anytime at http://www.mp3.com/donrowe > Get personalized email addresses from Yahoo! Mail > http://personal.mail.yahoo.com/ It may not be perfect, but it's the best system we've got here in the USA. Long live the US Constitution and the rights and responsibilities that go with it. Especially the rights granted by the Second Amendment, which make all the other rights possible. Off my red white and blue soapbox now, Brei - -- After twenty-three years you'd think I could find A way to let you know somehow That I want to see your smiling face Forty-five years from now. --Stan Rogers ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 19 Jul 2001 12:06:36 -0700 (PDT) From: Don Rowe Subject: Re: Okay now I'm REALLY steamed ... (njc, no ... really NJC) - --- Brian Gross wrote: > Now wait a minute... See there, I just knew heJIRa@aol asked to be taken off this list too soon! ;-) Think the jmdl's boring ... wait 5 posts! And okay, okay ... so I took some liberties with the tone of the announcement. But to paraphrase John Adams, "It's a satire dammit, we're going to have to offend SOMEONE!" Tee-hee! Don Rowe ===== Visit me anytime at http://www.mp3.com/donrowe Get personalized email addresses from Yahoo! Mail http://personal.mail.yahoo.com/ ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 19 Jul 2001 15:43:49 EDT From: Dflahm@aol.com Subject: Re: Okay now I'm REALLY steamed ... (njc, no ... really NJC) Which John Adams was that, please? LAHM ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 19 Jul 2001 12:46:59 -0700 (PDT) From: Don Rowe Subject: Re: Okay now I'm REALLY steamed ... (njc, no ... really NJC) - --- Dflahm@aol.com wrote: > Which John Adams was that, please? The historical character from the musical 1776. As Congress rips and tears Jefferson's draft of the Declaration to shreds, he jumps up and cries in exasperation: "It's a revolution dammit ... we're going to have to offend SOMEONE!" Don Rowe ===== Visit me anytime at http://www.mp3.com/donrowe Get personalized email addresses from Yahoo! Mail http://personal.mail.yahoo.com/ ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 19 Jul 2001 15:52:24 EDT From: RoseMJoy@aol.com Subject: Joni's Medicinewheel Hi guys! Jim Johanson from JoniMitchell.com was kind enough to share this little drawing that Joni had done when she signed his Voices book at the Mendel Gallery. So with his permission, I've attached it here on Catgirl's site. Now what do you suppose all this means? Any insight would be greatly appreciated. I'm not too up on Native American Spirituality, but I'm sure gonna do some research. For those of you not signed up with Catgirl's list, email me privately and I'll be happy to send it along to you. A big Thanks Jim Rose in NJ rosemjoy@aol.com [demime 0.97c removed an attachment of type image/jpeg which had a name of JonisWheel.jpeg] ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 19 Jul 2001 12:27:06 -0700 From: "Kakki" Subject: Re: soul? NJC > I'm amazed nobody's mentioned Laura Nyro and Dusty Springfield! > > Mark in Seattle Took the words right out of my mouth! Also some more that give me those soul chills - Flora Purim, Michael Ruff, Lani Hall, Milton Nascimento, Crosby, Pevar and Raymond, Vince Gill and Jimmy Webb. And more JMDL'ers to add to the long list of those who hit me right in the solar plexus: Bryan Thomas, Marian Russell, Sherelle, Gary Zack, Clark, JULIUS, Paz, Lahm, Fred Simon, the Dulsons and Craig Harris (who is so busy being souful and funkiful we rarely hear from him here ;-) Kakki ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 19 Jul 2001 16:03:26 EDT From: RoseMJoy@aol.com Subject: Re: Joni's Medicinewheel In a message dated 7/19/01 4:00:12 PM Eastern Daylight Time, dgrowe227@yahoo.com writes: > As you can see, you've fallen victim to smoe.org's > Attachment Nazi ... but if you'd send us a link to > Catgirl's site ... :-) > > it's one of those sites that you have to subscribe to Don and others www.jonimitchellfans@yahoo.com rosemjoy@aol.com [demime 0.97c removed an attachment of type image/jpeg which had a name of JonisWheel.jpeg] ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 19 Jul 2001 13:03:58 -0700 (PDT) From: "Lori R. Fye" Subject: Re: NJC suicide/black/books - long Sherelle wrote: > Being referred to as black(s) doesn't offend me personally unless you put > the word "the" in front of it. I'm not sure why that bothers me, but it does. Last night I was listening to NPR and "Marketplace" was featuring a story about the lack of good (or any) restaurants in Prince George's County, MD, where the population is 63% African-American, very affluent, and where it's (probably correctly) presumed businesses don't locate because of the "race issue." One of the interviewees opined, regarding African-Americans in the County, "They spend money just like anyone else." For some reason, I found his statement offensive. I'm not sure how else he could have put it -- perhaps, "Citizens in PG County spend money ..." -- but the way the guy said it bothered me. Mike in Barcelona wrote: > Books- how about a 'favourite book' thread for all of us who don't have > cars. Or maybe a 'book I'm currently reading' thread. I'll start the ball > rolling with "The Third Policeman" by Flann O'Brien, and "A THOUSAND > YEARS OF NONLINEAR HISTORY" by Manuel De Landa. My favorite: A Confederacy of Dunces, by John Kennedy Toole Now reading: My Lead Dog Was a Lesbian: Mushing Across Alaska in the Iditarod - The World's Most Grueling Race, by Brian Patrick O'Donoghue > 'Penblwydd Hapus' to Lori Thanks, Mike!!! : ) Lori in DC ~ Get personalized email addresses from Yahoo! Mail - only $35 a year! http://personal.mail.yahoo.com/ ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 19 Jul 2001 13:02:57 -0700 From: "J. R. Mills" Subject: Re: soul? NJC > I'm amazed nobody's mentioned Laura Nyro and Dusty Springfield! > > Mark in Seattle Laura Nyro was the very first non-Black soulful person I mentioned in my original reply to Jerry's post that started all this. Dusty Springfield had soul, no doubt about it. In my list today I forgot to mention Van Morrison and Stevie Ray Vaughn, so here's to them now. Lest we forget the African Americans, again, here is a very partial list of performers who are the absolute embodiment of soul, IMO: James Brown, Aretha Franklin, Mahalia Jackson, Etta James, Diana Ross, Andrea Crouch, Curtis Mayfield, Issac Hayes, B.B. King, Muddy Waters, Robert Johnson, Michael Jackson, Odetta, Marvin Gaye, Smokey Robinson, Wilson Pickett, Bill Withers, Chuck Berry, Bryan Thomas, Little Richard, Miles Davis, Charlie Parker, Patti Cathcart, John Lee Hooker, Duke Ellington, Tammi Terrell, Tina Turner, Ray Charles, Otis Redding, Earl Klugh, Ella Fitzgerald, Macy Gray, Whitney Houston, Herbie Hancock, Muddy Waters, Grover Washington, Jr.and scores and scores of others known and unknown. Thanks to them all for helping to make my life almost bearable in the worst of times through their music. - -Julius ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 19 Jul 2001 16:22:53 EDT From: RobSher50@aol.com Subject: Re: Soul (sjc) Dear Colin: In my mind, soul does not have a color because it comes from within. Others have tried to label it and categorize it towards a particular color, but it's essence has more to do with "feeling." Dusty Springfield was one of the most "soulful" singers I know who doesn't fit the traditional "mold" society has created for this term. Tom Jones, in my opinion has soul. Sting has soul. Janis Joplin had soul. Carlos Santana has soul. The lead singer from Matchbox 20, Rob Thomas has soul. Gwen Steffani has soul. Cyndi Lauper has soul. KD Lang has soul. Sade has soul. Jill Scott has soul. Dave Matthews has soul. Ann(sp?) DiFranco has soul. In the music business, it is also referred to as "it," an unexplainable term which translates into record sales. In this case, the beauty of soul has been downgraded into monetary terms. The industry has further diluted "it" by packaging it up all neat and pretty and including components that have absolutely nothing to do with a person's raw talent. There are many people in the music industry with "talent," the ability to sing, write, or dance. Packaged with a pretty face and nice (though skimpy) clothes, they do very well. However, the element of soul has the ability to transcend from the performer to the listener in a way that is very hard to describe. It has nothing to do with color. When Aretha Franklin was aptly named, "The Queen of Soul,'" and James Brown was dubbed, "the Godfather of soul," I think society started to naturally associated the term with black artists. Soul comes from experience and a need to communicate that experience. When I hear a sad Irish ballad, I can feel soul in that song. I feel the soul in a Native American chant over what was lost by a nation. Joan Baez sang a song called "Joe Hill" long ago which touched me to the roots. It was a song about the Union and the awful things which made it necessary in the 20's to start it. Joni's soul comes from her experience with life and with love. It comes from the need to communicate the hurt, the pain, and the joy she has felt all of her life. Soul takes courage to communicate because you expose your heart to another human being when you do it. You strip yourself bare. Without rambling further, I hope this answers your question that soul, in my opinion, has absolutely nothing to do with color, but has everything to do with being brave enough to share your heart with others. Sherelle ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 19 Jul 2001 16:30:37 -0400 From: hessj@ix.netcom.com Subject: Mimi Farina Perhaps this is "old" news, but I hadn't heard before (having only skimmed the Joni messages before leaving my apt. earlier today) that Mimi Farina died yesterday of lung cancer. She was 56. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 19 Jul 2001 17:34:10 -0300 From: "Wally Kairuz" Subject: RE: NJC - Dorothy Parker correction i know, i read it last night -- can you believe the coincidence! for a moment, i thought you had started writing poems about japanese dishes... ;-) love, wally - -----Mensaje original----- De: owner-joni@jmdl.com [mailto:owner-joni@jmdl.com]En nombre de Murphycopy@aol.com Enviado el: Jueves, 19 de Julio de 2001 01:21 p.m. Para: Murphycopy@aol.com; ink08@hotmail.com; joni@smoe.org Asunto: NJC - Dorothy Parker correction In a message dated 7/19/01 11:16:41 AM, Murphycopy@aol.com writes: << Risumi, by Dorothy Parker >> The title is "Resume," but the accent marks I put in the original post were turned into the letter "i" in transit. --Bob ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 19 Jul 2001 16:41:38 EDT From: RobSher50@aol.com Subject: Re: NJC suicide/black/books - long Dear Lori: I think the interviewee meant well, but I would have to agree with you. Anytime you attempt to lump a category or race of people into one thought process or pattern, it becomes generalized and therefore, somewhat prejudiced. This is something that is a learned habit in speech which needs to be unlearned and it goes across the board. The question I must ask myself as a human being is this; Do I really know the thoughts of every gay, straight, black, white, nationality (take your pick), handicapped person on earth? Then I should not categorize a people as if I do. I should say, "The handicapped people I have spoken to, read about, feel as if they are being left out on being able to function as much as possible in society." It's a learned habit. Sherelle In a message dated 07/19/2001 1:04:31 PM Pacific Daylight Time, lrfye@yahoo.com writes: > Last night I was listening to NPR and "Marketplace" was featuring a story > about the lack of good (or any) restaurants in Prince George's County, MD, > where the population is 63% African-American, very affluent, and where it's > (probably correctly) presumed businesses don't locate because of the "race > issue." One of the interviewees opined, regarding African-Americans in the > County, "They spend money just like anyone else." For some reason, I found > his statement offensive. I'm not sure how else he could have put it -- > perhaps, "Citizens in PG County spend money ..." -- but the way the guy > said it bothered me. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 19 Jul 2001 16:45:48 EDT From: Murphycopy@aol.com Subject: Re: NJC - Dorothy Parker correction In a message dated 7/19/01 3:34:44 PM, wallykai@fibertel.com.ar writes: << i know, i read it last night -- can you believe the coincidence! >> And I have been reading "The Portable Dorothy Parker" on and off for the last two or three weeks. Talk about JMDL synchronicity! XO, --Bob ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 19 Jul 2001 14:17:11 -0700 From: "Kate Bennett" Subject: soulfulness All I can say is WOW. This has been a very poignant & soulful thread. Thank you all for opening your hearts & sharing your experiences...I feel like your words have created a palatable reality of what it feels like to live in a world where the highest nature of humanity is the norm. The power of your thoughts & words & dreams are very strong. What an amazing group of people you are. ******************************************** Kate Bennett www.katebennett.com sponsored by Polysonics www.polysonics.com Discover the Indies at Taylor Guitars: http://www.taylorguitars.com/artists/awp/indies/bennett.html ******************************************** ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 19 Jul 2001 17:53:23 -0400 From: Vince Lavieri Subject: Re: Okay now I'm REALLY steamed ... (njc, no ... really NJC) I think Don Rowe was exactly right that all the mailing was a taxpayer supported campaign lit for W Bush. At the law office today we got maybe 50 of them today, to our dead clients with estates, for our conservatorships, etc., and it is such a waste of taxpayer money to promote W's political ideology. This is a new achievement in sleaze. Why send a notice that a refund is coming - it was in the news after all - - and those lines about W signing this to save you money for years to come - this is Reaganomics with no class. (the Rev) Vince ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 19 Jul 2001 14:24:36 -0700 From: "Kakki" Subject: Re: NJC suicide/black/books - long > Anytime you attempt to lump a category or race of people into one thought > process or pattern, it becomes generalized and therefore, somewhat > prejudiced. This is something that is a learned habit in speech which needs > to be unlearned and it goes across the board. The question I must ask myself > as a human being is this; Do I really know the thoughts of every gay, > straight, black, white, nationality (take your pick), handicapped person on > earth? Then I should not categorize a people as if I do. I should say, "The > handicapped people I have spoken to, read about, feel as if they are being > left out on being able to function as much as possible in society." It's a > learned habit. Sherelle, My father used to say "we are all from the same cut." He also was almost militant in his belief that each person is unique and individual and loved to draw people out and listen to them whether they were 2 years old or 90. He grew up in an era where societal mores of conformity and propriety were dominant and had to literally hide his paintings, poetry and short stories from his own family, who treated his "otherness" from the "norm" as if it was something shameful to be covered up. There was a unfinished basement in his house that nobody used, so he thought it would be safe to paint murals on the walls there. As soon as the family discovered this they demanded he paint them over. As hideous as this sounds today, his family was not monstrous and were otherwise truly good and gentle people who were generous and committed to many charitable works, yet were deficient in understanding or respecting individuality. He still tells me these stories at 89 years old - the pain has never gone away for him. His experiences gave him bitterness but also much compassion and empathy along with that militancy about seeing people as individual human beings. I feel this particular influence from him is the greatest gift he has given me. Throughout history "otherness" has been used as a perverse justification for governments, religion and people towards their own self-interested ends. Many of us heard about those bad old days thinking how much more progressive and enlightened we were today. We were taught that the only "otherness" we should condemn and shun is man's inhumanity to man. What happened to those ideals, that sense of hope and that we were living in a golden time? Man's inhumanity to man is as common today as it ever was. Why is it that people are still lumped into facile and reductionist categorizations? I suspect that our "fast food, get it now" culture hasn't helped. It's more efficient and expedient in our rushed self-interested lives to have a quick sound bite approach to explain the world around us. We don't have to take that extra precious time to think or listen a little deeper. Joni has addressed this issue in her songs so many times over the years. She keeps putting out the message. If more could only listen. Kakki ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 19 Jul 2001 17:06:32 -0500 From: "Sharon L. Buffington" Subject: Bigots and otherwise I am sitting here laughing at Anna Karenina's post. An aftenoon brightener! And then I read on about bigotry...and I find I am always amused when white people refer to some other ethnic group...like "The Little Chinese family down the street", or "The Little Jewish lady at the store". I wondered as a child how they got so small...when they were the same size as everyone else. I find these comments are made by people who would never, mind you, never, say the word "Chink" or "Jew" and pride themselves on their lack of prejudice. So mostly I simply smile...because I have never heard anyone talk about "That little white man at work". I could perhaps talk like that...after all, I am one of those little Jewish women down the street. I also am amused by the use of the term "dysfunctional family". I hear it used day in and day out. To me it is redundant. :) Happy birthday to you Lori....... :) Peace......Sharon in Wisconsin ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 19 Jul 2001 14:26:15 -0700 From: "Kakki" Subject: Re: Okay now I'm REALLY steamed ... (njc, no ... really NJC) Vince, While I also grumped at this expensive "pre-mailing" is apparently is an IRS regulation so that people won't throw the actual refund mailing away when they get it, thinking it is junk mail. Kakki > Why send a notice that a refund is coming - it was in the news after all > - and those lines about W signing this to save you money for years to > come - this is Reaganomics with no class. > > (the Rev) Vince ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 20 Jul 2001 18:13:03 -0400 From: "Gerald A. Notaro" Subject: Re: Okay now I'm REALLY steamed ... (njc, no ... really NJC) But did they really have to say brought to you by President George W. Bush? Sounds like PR more than regulations. Suspicious Jerry Kakki wrote: > Vince, > > While I also grumped at this expensive "pre-mailing" is apparently is an IRS > regulation so that people won't throw the actual refund mailing away when > they get it, thinking it is junk mail. > > Kakki > > > Why send a notice that a refund is coming - it was in the news after all > > - and those lines about W signing this to save you money for years to > > come - this is Reaganomics with no class. > > > > (the Rev) Vince ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 19 Jul 2001 14:38:14 -0700 From: "Kakki" Subject: Re: Okay now I'm REALLY steamed ... (njc, no ... really NJC) I haven't received the letter yet, but after reading Brian's copy of it, it looks pretty innocuous to me. He *is* the president even though some think he should not be. It is an IRS regulation - maybe one we should repeal. Kakki > But did they really have to say brought to you by President George W. Bush? > Sounds like PR more than regulations. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 19 Jul 2001 19:01:13 EDT From: Relayer211@aol.com Subject: Re: Okay now I'm REALLY steamed ... (njc, no ... really NJC) In a message dated 7/19/01 10:43:37 AM Eastern Daylight Time, dgrowe227@yahoo.com writes: << But then again, what did I expect? >> With our pathetic president, expecting anything remotely positive is way more then can be expected. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 20 Jul 2001 00:08:23 +0100 (GMT Daylight Time) From: "colin" Subject: Re: soul? NJC - -------Original Message------- From: Mark or Travis Date: 19 July 2001 19:54:19 To: colin; jrmills@pacbell.net; joni@smoe.org Subject: Re: soul? NJC > Grace Slick on Dreams, Tracy Chapman, Janis Ian and several others. Grace Slick on anything, imo. I have only heard Dreams. a very powerful album. Pity it got deleted. i'd love a cd of it. I'm amazed nobody's mentioned Laura Nyro and Dusty Springfield! I don't know Nyro's stuff and Dusty doesn't do it for me. bw colin Mark in Seattle ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 19 Jul 2001 15:43:39 -0700 From: "Kate Bennett" Subject: Neil Young at 17 NJC Sybil wrote: NP:"Cowgirl in the Sand" I found the Decade CDs in the changer left there by my 17 year old son. Listening to Neil Young at 17, I'm not sure this is an entirely good thing. Hi Sybil, I think it is a very good thing! After my son went to the HORDE festival many years ago & came back raving about Neil Young as the best act by far, I gave him a copy of Decade for his birthday (he was 18 then)... ******************************************** Kate Bennett www.katebennett.com sponsored by Polysonics www.polysonics.com Discover the Indies at Taylor Guitars: http://www.taylorguitars.com/artists/awp/indies/bennett.html ******************************************** ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 19 Jul 2001 19:05:58 EDT From: Relayer211@aol.com Subject: Re: Okay now I'm REALLY steamed ... (njc, no ... really NJC) In a message dated 7/19/01 6:24:52 PM Eastern Daylight Time, KakkiB@worldnet.att.net writes: << He *is* the president even though some think he should not be. >> Yesterday they had "pop up bubbles" on The Brady Bunch. When Carol said "Sometimes when you lose you win",they flashed Bush on the screen. sums it up perfectly. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 20 Jul 2001 00:25:22 +0100 (GMT Daylight Time) From: "colin" Subject: Re: joni line [njc]/ blackness - -------Original Message------- From: Mark or Travis So I cannot honestly say that I have completely eradicated some of the idiotic things I grew up hearing about from people who were supposed to be wiser than me. I can only say that I do my best to try & see people for what they are underneath the 'joke' that God has played on us by making us all appear to be different. And yes, I acknowledge that each of is different - unique and special in our own way - and I think cultures and backgrounds are important and worth remembering and preserving. But in the end, I want to be color-blind. But I have to honestly admit that I'm just not there yet. I reply: What you describe happens to all of us. We all get brought up with the prejudices of those that brought us up, the society we live in, those that teach us at school and in church. It is frustrating when one thinks one thing and feels another. For example, I know that sex is a joyous thing to be enjoyed. Howeevr, I have this other voice that is so deep it is a feeling, that sex is wrong and a truly good person not only would not have sex but would not desire it either. I was taught that the only reason to give in to such a desire would be to produce a child and then only within marriage and only because it had to be done. But it was far more Godly to not do so. I was also told that women only started to menstruate because they had sinful thoughts about sex!!!!!! And to be really honest: if I see a picture(in mags or the newspaper-yes we have htem in our dailies here) of a naked man I either think'he's nice' or he isn't my taste' and that is it. If I see a a pictuyre of a naked woman, I feel bad for her, cos a woman really shouldn't do that sort of thing!!!! Beofre you go shooting off a reply to denounce me, read it again and the context. I am totally aware of the double standard here. Like I said, it is very difficult to get rid of the shit taught to you when young. I tend to eat watching the tv, ffod on my lap and using only a fork. I can still here my parents say'just cos the Americans have no manners doen't mean you shouldn't have them'. yes, they thought Americans were very uncouth and rude with no table manners. They were very hot on such things. Be polite, drress well, eat properly, obey adults, be nice and never tell anyone that we beat the shit out of you in the house and treat you like dirt and certainly behave very uncouthly! Living authentically, really getting to grips with yourself and how you think is not easy at all and requires courage. One of the hardest things for most people to accpt that the people who taught them when young were wrong, hence people will say things like'I was beaten as a child and it din't do me any harm' or they will say' it must be right because my church or the pope says so'.Or ' vote democrat or republican because my parents did' or 'black peoplle are not the same as us' because that is what i was taught. the biggest cop out is to justify your present postion by saying'it was the way I was brought up'. So what? Work on changing it! bw colin Mark in Seattle ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 19 Jul 2001 19:28:47 EDT From: Lazyasz@aol.com Subject: Some thoughts on Joni and movies and pictures Ok first of all. Are we not in agreement that THOSL was a precursor if not a direct influence on The Ice Storm, American Beauty and all these angsty movies about rich whites who have lost their spark from manicured lawns, Honeywell security systems, and safe employment. Also I feel that this album is perfect for a movie. Though so much of her music if filmic. I also think that in the song HOSL, that little interlude with her scatting and the muted trumpet symbolizes either an ad on tv or the News at 12:00. I've heard that she was going to include grass chants on Paprika Plains and I think she should have gone for it. It would further lend itself to the world-beat theme of the album. Ive heard that she released a video collection called Come In From The Cold. It had a video of Beat of Black Wings. Was this an actual video or just a live performance. Does anyone have information on this. I really think that Paprika Plains would have made a great short film. More to come later. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 20 Jul 2001 00:37:38 +0100 (GMT Daylight Time) From: "colin" Subject: Re: Soul (sjc) Sherelle-you described exactly how i percieve 'soul'. However, I have been under the inpression for a long time, and it was reinforced whent he discussion about Joni's appeal to people of colour mentioned this 'soul' that she has and implied again that it is a'black' thing. I have heard many people say that Dusty sounds like a black person when she sings because she has soul.. Not to my ears she doesn't(sound black i mean). Rick Astley has been described as sounding like Barry White which is utter tosh. he has a deep voice that is it. I think the idea that people of a given race perform with more 'soul' is ridiculous, racist and sopported by those who might know better if they thought about it. It's funny, if you say a balck person is good at athletics because of their race, you lose your job, but if you say a black sings well because they are black and therefore sing with more feeling, people agree with you!! I think both are equally ignorant. John would tell you that Jessye Norman and Janet Baker have soul. I would tell you that a cat on heat sounds better. bw colin ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 20 Jul 2001 00:42:36 +0100 (GMT Daylight Time) From: "colin" Subject: Re: Okay now I'm REALLY steamed ... (njc, no ... really NJC) I am not surpised you get these mails about your taxes. It seems to me that people only vote for those they think will leave the most money in hteir pockets. certainly during elction campaigns that is mostly what people are concerned about-their own finances. if not, the laws we need about pulltion, chikld absue, equal rights, etc would have been passsed a long time ago. bw]colin ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 20 Jul 2001 00:46:38 +0100 (GMT Daylight Time) From: "colin" Subject: Re: NJC suicide/black/books - long Now reading: My Lead Dog Was a Lesbian: Mushing Across Alaska in the Iditarod - The World's Most Grueling Race, by Brian Patrick O'Donoghue did you mean to put lesbian and mushing the in the same line? ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 20 Jul 2001 00:50:12 +0100 (GMT Daylight Time) From: "colin" Subject: Re: Bigots and otherwise I also am amused by the use of the term "dysfunctional family". I hear it used day in and day out. To me it is redundant. :) do you mean becasue most families are? bw colin-who wishes he was a little white man sitting at this pc-at leats width ways! Happy birthday to you Lori....... :) Peace......Sharon in Wisconsin ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 19 Jul 2001 20:57:56 -0300 From: "Wally Kairuz" Subject: RE: Some thoughts on Joni and movies and pictures it is an actual clip, with joni as a black guy, though not the pimpish kind of guy on the cover of djrd. there is some choreographed stuff by somebody famous, and joni in profile behind a screen. i wonder if any of the dancers is joni. wallyk - -----Mensaje original----- De: owner-joni@jmdl.com [mailto:owner-joni@jmdl.com]En nombre de Lazyasz@aol.com Enviado el: Jueves, 19 de Julio de 2001 08:29 p.m. Para: joni@smoe.org Asunto: Some thoughts on Joni and movies and pictures Ive heard that she released a video collection called Come In From The Cold. It had a video of Beat of Black Wings. Was this an actual video or just a live performance. Does anyone have information on this. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 19 Jul 2001 20:03:33 -0500 From: James Leahy Subject: Re: black folk into joni J.R. Mills wrote: <> These comments were made by Mel Lastman, the mayor of Toronto, surrounding this city's bid for the 2008 Olympics, not by the prime minister. We are all embarrassed that Lastman got to be mayor in the first place. His comment about Africans boiling him in a pot belies the fact that Toronto is one of the most multicultural cities in the world. FYI, there will be a demonstration here next week calling for the mayor's resignation. Jim ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 19 Jul 2001 20:14:20 EDT From: Fonimitchell@aol.com Subject: A new Joni for Foni !!! Dear friends, I thought I'd let you know that after endless auditions we now have a new singer. Her name is Sam Weeks - she is a lovely person, a real Joni fan, and has a beautiful voice which is more true to Joni's songs than we've ever heard. Vikki Clayton will still do the September gigs with us, but we hope to "unveil" Sam at the festival on Sept.1st. It's great to have such a positive outcome following a period of real uncertainty. Love to all. Clive. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 19 Jul 2001 20:20:48 -0400 (EDT) From: Catherine McKay Subject: Re: Shake the Willy Anna had me fooled too. That Mackie is one sick puppy. How could anyone ever say this list is boring? - --- "J. R. Mills" wrote: > I find this hilarious...an absolute panic! You had > me going for a moment > there. lol! Anna Karenina indeed. Rotfl! That > "HEjira@aol.com" person may > well have made their move too soon...we're lively > now, aren't we? I love > this list. > > -Julius > > > > The 'ruby in a black man's ear' which is correctly > attributed to > > Shakepeare does not have a literal meaning in the > play Othello. It > > actually refers to something rather different...an > erect penis. It > > was an allusion used often by Willy the Shake > (which seems to have a > > different conotation now). Actually, this is my > vain attempt to be > > humourous and I just made it up. Please someone > find this vaguely > > amusing...I am trying to lighten > up..honest...honest... > > > > Anna Karenina Get your free @yahoo.ca address at http://mail.yahoo.ca ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 19 Jul 2001 20:57:51 -0400 From: Vince Lavieri Subject: NJC W sleaze and ice and global warming I thought about for 30 seconds or so - get involved or not - but what the hell... Our taxes have gone up and down for years and we have never had the government use taxpayer funds to send out a campaign brochure, excuse me, press release to each tax payer saying that this tax cut has been brought you by a specific president. In fact, there has never been a press release like this at mailed to each taxpayer. The line about IRS regulations is pure bs. It is, in fact, a lie, spun by experts. I am not shocked, shocked - W and his Bushies didn't steal, ah, claim the election because they were naive, and neither am I. This is sleaze on a new level, and certainly a new way to go if McCain-Feingold ever passes, using taxpayer money for Bush's 2004 campaign effort. Hell, our congressional folks of both parties have been doing this sort of thing for years - count the number of taxpayer funded "reports" from your senator or representative that you get this non-election year as opposed to what you will get next election year. What is disgusting is this type of campaign brochure "brought to you by G W Bush" is sleaze brought to new heights. My Clinton-hating friends will jump in and say "but but but" but that is ancient history - especially as W Bush has appointed assistant secretaries in the Cabinet who were pardoned by his father for perjury to Congress, so spare me any ethical lectures. G W campaigned on bringing dignity to the White House, opposes campaign finance reform, and then this tax cut mailing turns the White House into the corner alderman's office, cutting ethical corners. It is a new low. Well, the humor is the dude who quit the list because it was too passive for him, and I am off on an errand of mercy to try and reconcile a family and will be gone for a couple of days so any flack that flies because of what I say, I'll miss for a few days! Oh, worst luck. Tomorrow our office will probably get 50 more of these notices for other clients that we represent, and I'll be thinking about all that expense and all the taxpayer money going to toot W's horn (put your own pun in there) as he says he has to scale back money for education. But be of good cheer: I have hope that W will change his mind on global warming once his daughters figure out that if global warming continues, they might not have ice for their drinks... happy days! (the Rev) Vince who has been laying low long enough and feels feisty as hell tonight ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 19 Jul 2001 18:07:17 -0700 From: "Mark or Travis" Subject: Re: soul? NJC > Laura Nyro was the very first non-Black soulful person I mentioned in my > original reply to Jerry's post that started all this. Oops! Sorry, Julius. I guess I missed it. Mark in Seattle ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 19 Jul 2001 21:17:49 -0400 From: Bruyere Subject: Re: Lively Up The List (was UNSUBSCRIBE ME PLEASE) Oh my god!!! I can not stop the tears from laughter! Thanks Don!!!! Heather At 10:39 AM 7/18/01 -0700, Don Rowe wrote: >--- HeJlRa@aol.com wrote: > > This list is too boring for my tastes! > >To lively up the list, and make it more to your >tastes, please select the phrase of your choice below >and post it to the list (as directed, where >indicated): > >1. The Hinton biography should be considered The Holy >Bible when talking about Joni's life and career. > >2. Everything Jackson Browne alleged about "Not To >Blame" was true. > >3. The best thing Joni has ever done, or continues to >do, is smoke constantly. > >4. George W. Bush won the Presidential election fair >and square. (do NOT label this post NJC) > >5. Joni Mitchell would not be considered the icon >that she is today were it not for the production >contributions of Thomas Dolby & Larry Klein. > >6. Joni's okay, but Banarama ... now THERE was a >band! > >7. Homosexuality is a manifestation of Original Sin >which an be overcome through prayer. > >8. There is/is not a penis on the cover of Hejira >(make your selection based on what you see or don't) > >9. "For The Roses" is a mere collection of pop >throwaway ditties compared to "Hejira". > >10. "Hejira" is a boring bunch of navel-gazing >anthems compared to "For The Roses." > >11. Joni's a great poet, but she's not half the >singer Yoko Ono is. > >12. The only song Joni Mitchell ever wrote that said >anything even remotely relevant is "Dancin' Clown." > >It is our sincere hope that these primers will steer >the overall tenor of the list traffic in a direction >more to your liking. > >Don Rowe > > >===== >Visit me anytime at http://www.mp3.com/donrowe >Get personalized email addresses from Yahoo! Mail >http://personal.mail.yahoo.com/ ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 19 Jul 2001 21:26:59 -0400 From: Vince Lavieri Subject: Re: Lively Up The List (was UNSUBSCRIBE ME PLEASE) This list is a classic and should be archived! (the Rev) Vince, still LOL ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 19 Jul 2001 17:52:11 -0700 From: "Kakki" Subject: Re: NJC W sleaze and ice and global warming Vince, are you trying to enlighten people who may not vote the way you do, or preaching to the choir who does vote as you do? I ask this sincerely so as to know what discussions to stay in or out of in the future. If the IRS regulation is a lie spun by experts (I heard it on a mainstrem news program), why not cite the source to prove it is a lie? Wouldn't that be a more convincing way of enlightening people (if that is your intention)? I also was initially turned off at the waste of the extra mailing (would be regardless of political affiliation) but could also find it plausible that there was some bureaucratic reason for it. Believe it or not, there are people who don't pay much attention to the news or TV or they are otherwise distracted or have numerous reasons for throwing out an envelope from the IRS. ;-) There's also the possibility of people throwing it away and then complaining to the government that they were sufficiently notified in advance of the check. Kakki > Our taxes have gone up and down for years and we have never had the > government use taxpayer funds to send out a campaign brochure, excuse > me, press release to each tax payer saying that this tax cut has been > brought you by a specific president. In fact, there has never been a > press release like this at mailed to each taxpayer. The line about IRS > regulations is pure bs. It is, in fact, a lie, spun by experts. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 19 Jul 2001 20:30:28 -0500 From: "Sybil Skelton" Subject: Re: Mayor of Toronto Sorry, Jim, if we Americans have to be stuck with a moron as president of our whole country for the next four years, I think it grossly unfair for you to be able to get rid of one lousy moronic mayor. >These comments were made by Mel Lastman, the mayor of Toronto, >surrounding this city's bid for the 2008 Olympics, not by the prime >minister. We are all embarrassed that Lastman got to be mayor in the >first place. His comment about Africans boiling him in a pot belies the >fact that Toronto is one of the most multicultural cities in the world. >FYI, there will be a demonstration here next week calling for the >mayor's resignation. > >Jim _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 19 Jul 2001 17:54:49 -0700 From: "Kakki" Subject: Re: NJC W sleaze and ice and global warming Oops, meant "were not" here. > There's also the possibility of people throwing it away and then > complaining to the government that they were sufficiently notified in > advance of the check. Kakki ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 19 Jul 2001 21:33:11 -0400 From: Bruyere Subject: Re: Soul (sjc) what a boring world this would be without color. heather At 04:22 PM 7/19/01 -0400, RobSher50@aol.com wrote: >Dear Colin: >In my mind, soul does not have a color because it comes from within. Others >have tried to label it and categorize it towards a particular color, but it's >essence has more to do with "feeling." > >Dusty Springfield was one of the most "soulful" singers I know who doesn't >fit the traditional "mold" society has created for this term. Tom Jones, in >my opinion has soul. Sting has soul. Janis Joplin had soul. Carlos Santana >has soul. The lead singer from Matchbox 20, Rob Thomas has soul. Gwen >Steffani has soul. Cyndi Lauper has soul. KD Lang has soul. Sade has soul. >Jill Scott has soul. Dave Matthews has soul. Ann(sp?) DiFranco has soul. In >the music business, it is also referred to as "it," an unexplainable term >which translates into record sales. In this case, the beauty of soul has been >downgraded into monetary terms. The industry has further diluted "it" by >packaging it up all neat and pretty and including components that have >absolutely nothing to do with a person's raw talent. > >There are many people in the music industry with "talent," the ability to >sing, write, or dance. Packaged with a pretty face and nice (though skimpy) >clothes, they do very well. However, the element of soul has the ability to >transcend from the performer to the listener in a way that is very hard to >describe. It has nothing to do with color. When Aretha Franklin was aptly >named, "The Queen of Soul,'" and James Brown was dubbed, "the Godfather of >soul," I think society started to naturally associated the term with black >artists. > >Soul comes from experience and a need to communicate that experience. When I >hear a sad Irish ballad, I can feel soul in that song. I feel the soul in a >Native American chant over what was lost by a nation. Joan Baez sang a song >called "Joe Hill" long ago which touched me to the roots. It was a song about >the Union and the awful things which made it necessary in the 20's to start >it. > >Joni's soul comes from her experience with life and with love. It comes from >the need to communicate the hurt, the pain, and the joy she has felt all of >her life. Soul takes courage to communicate because you expose your heart to >another human being when you do it. You strip yourself bare. > >Without rambling further, I hope this answers your question that soul, in my >opinion, has absolutely nothing to do with color, but has everything to do >with being brave enough to share your heart with others. > >Sherelle ------------------------------ End of JMDL Digest V2001 #302 ***************************** ------- Post messages to the list by clicking here: mailto:joni@smoe.org Unsubscribe by clicking here: mailto:joni-digest-request@smoe.org?body=unsubscribe ------- Siquomb, isn't she?