From: les@jmdl.com (JMDL Digest) To: joni-digest@smoe.org Subject: JMDL Digest V2001 #297 Reply-To: joni@smoe.org Sender: les@jmdl.com Errors-To: les@jmdl.com Precedence: bulk Unsubscribe: mailto:joni-digest-request@smoe.org?body=unsubscribe Archives: http://www.smoe.org/lists/joni Websites: http://www.jmdl.com http://www.jonimitchell.com JMDL Digest Tuesday, July 17 2001 Volume 2001 : Number 297 The Official Joni Mitchell Homepage, created by Wally Breese, can be found at http://www.jonimitchell.com. It contains the latest news, a detailed bio, Original Interviews, essays, lyrics and much much more. The JMDL website can be found at http://www.jmdl.com and contains interviews, articles, the member gallery, archives, and much more. Information on the 4th "Annual" New England JoniFest: http://www.jmdl.com/jfne2001.cfm ========== TOPICS and authors in this Digest: -------- Today in Joni History: July 16 [les@jmdl.com] Re: "Thoroughfare," "Thoroughbred," self-introduction, miscellanea. [SCJo] re: RE: aging punk in lotusland [greenstudio@sympatico.ca] Re: angst filled lesbians NJC ["Lori R. Fye" ] re: RE: aging punk in lotusland [greenstudio@sympatico.ca] Dorothy Parker ["Sharon L. Buffington" ] Re: Joni at Mariposa [Steve Polifka ] Buffalo Springfield(njc) [Jodcrazee@aol.com] New Joni Book [Gertus@aol.com] Re: Fwd: The Mermaid Cafe ["Brenda J. Walker" ] Re: Neil and Billy Joel(njc) [Jodcrazee@aol.com] Carole King and the decline of Boomers (NJC) [Murphycopy@aol.com] Prince having Joni affectations? [BachelorNumero2@aol.com] Re: joni on cobain (NJC) ["Bill Dollinger" ] check gas prices NJC ["janine sherman" ] Re: Joni at Mariposa [Jerry Notaro ] Re: Joni at Mariposa [Alison E ] Re: Joni at Mariposa (now NJC) [Don Rowe ] Re: Joni at Mariposa ["Kakki" ] RE: joni on cobain ["blonde in the bleachers" ] FW: joni on cobain ["Donna J. Binkley" ] Re: Joni at Mariposa ["Gerald A. Notaro" ] RE: joni on cobain ["Donna J. Binkley" ] Re: Joni at Mariposa ["J. R. Mills" ] RE: Dorothy Parker ["Wally Kairuz" ] Re: Dorothy Parker - njc ["Gerald A. Notaro" ] RE: Dorothy Parker - njc ["Wally Kairuz" ] RE: Joni at Mariposa ["Wally Kairuz" ] Re: Neil l(njc) [Vince Lavieri ] For Baez and her sis fans NJC ["janine sherman" ] Re: joni on cobain now njc [Randy Remote ] Re: joni on cobain (md)NJC [MDESTE1@aol.com] ebay: premium vinyl C&S, 100% JC ["Jim L'Hommedieu" ] Re: joni on cobain (njc) ["Kakki" ] Re: ccccc cars... njc ["Kakki" ] ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Mon, 16 Jul 2001 03:05:53 -0400 From: les@jmdl.com Subject: Today in Joni History: July 16 On July 16 in Joni Mitchell History: 1983: Joni performs at the Garden State Arts Center in New Jersey. More info: http://www.jonimitchell.com/NY83.html - ------------------------ Search the "Today" database: http://www.jmdl.com/today ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 16 Jul 2001 08:08:39 EDT From: SCJoniGuy@aol.com Subject: Re: "Thoroughfare," "Thoroughbred," self-introduction, miscellanea. <> Well then, Tim, here's an official "welcome"! << Bob "SCJoniguy": I haven't forgotten; I still plan to dub for you Paul Winter Consort performing "Both Sides Now" and send it,>> No need; I've already picked it up, but thanks just the same for the offer. BUT do send that "Jungle Line"....I'm beggin' ya'! I'll be glad to dub from your source recording and return it to you. <> That'll be fine...ALL volumes are available to whomever needs/wants them... <> Hitchcock? I've heard of Dave Alvin...Perhaps that is the one to which our correspondent refers. ;~D Bob NP: Counting Crows, "A Murder of One" ------------------------------ Date: 14 Jul 2001 17:34:38 -0500 From: greenstudio@sympatico.ca Subject: re: RE: aging punk in lotusland below find responses to a desciption of the christening I posted online last night...love those jmlders. See you later tonight. Mom's bringing me out. Boyfriend's back... > ** Original Subject: RE: aging punk in lotusland > ** Original Sender: "Wally Kairuz" > ** Original Date: Sat, 14 Jul 2001 14:36:51 -0400 > ** Original Message follows... > > jesus, it must be hell living in a place like that! keep the cam and buy > some comfort food, for god's sake! > > wallyK, my mom used to make frittata when we didn't have any money because > she's italian and all the gentrified italian food you eat nowadays is just > peasant italian food that we were embarrassed to eat when we were kids. we > are poor again in argentina so we'll be eating a lot of polenta and frittata > by and by. >** --------- End Original Message ----------- ** > greenstudio ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 16 Jul 2001 07:49:16 -0700 (PDT) From: "Lori R. Fye" Subject: Re: angst filled lesbians NJC Mike in Barcelona wrote: > Maybe Lori should check out Janis Ian's 'Accousticville' > before she wates time writing a song about her experiences. > It's on 'Hunger'. Thanks, Mike. My partner has "Hunger" and we've played it a few times but I haven't listened to it closely. I'll do that soon. You did "get" the joke I was making about lesbians and songwriting, didn't you? Lori in DC ~ Get personalized email addresses from Yahoo! Mail http://personal.mail.yahoo.com/ ------------------------------ Date: 14 Jul 2001 17:33:13 -0500 From: greenstudio@sympatico.ca Subject: re: RE: aging punk in lotusland below find responses to a desciption of the christening I posted online last night...love those jmlders. See you later tonight. Mom's bringing me out. Boyfriend's back... > ** Original Subject: RE: aging punk in lotusland > ** Original Sender: "Wally Kairuz" > ** Original Date: Sat, 14 Jul 2001 14:36:51 -0400 > ** Original Message follows... > > jesus, it must be hell living in a place like that! keep the cam and buy > some comfort food, for god's sake! > > wallyK, my mom used to make frittata when we didn't have any money because > she's italian and all the gentrified italian food you eat nowadays is just > peasant italian food that we were embarrassed to eat when we were kids. we > are poor again in argentina so we'll be eating a lot of polenta and frittata > by and by. >** --------- End Original Message ----------- ** > greenstudio ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 16 Jul 2001 10:17:39 -0500 From: "Sharon L. Buffington" Subject: Dorothy Parker Laurent wrote: The first cd that came to mind was Sirn o the Times. This might be because he mentions her in Dorothy Parker and this is also my favorite Prince cd. Before I comment on Dorothy Parker, I want to thank all of you for responding, privately and publicly to my one and only post. :) Dorothy Parker was an amazing woman and Gloria Steinem did her Master's thesis on Parker. Steinem told a great story about Parker who was a member of the Algonquin Round Table discussion group. Whenever they met they would play a game whereby a person was given a word and they would have to use that word in a sentence. Parker was given the word "horticulture". She said "You can lead a whore to culture but you can not make her think" ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 16 Jul 2001 10:13:00 -0500 From: Steve Polifka Subject: Re: Joni at Mariposa Hey Jerry, Tell us more! How can you just tease us with: >And I was there. My first time seeing Joni. Went early and heard >her tuning up playing California on her dulcimer. I almost jumped >out of my skin with excitement! >Jerry Sheesh! Steve ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 16 Jul 2001 12:10:32 EDT From: Jodcrazee@aol.com Subject: Buffalo Springfield(njc) NP- Nowadays Clancy Can't Even Sing-Buffalo Springfield Years ago my parents got a bird and wanted help naming it. Being Irish and a big Neil Young fan I suggested Clancy and they loved it. I think I cursed it because the bird never learned to sing or talk like other cockatiels do. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 16 Jul 2001 12:27:49 EDT From: Gertus@aol.com Subject: New Joni Book Here's some info about the new Joni book due out in the UK in the autumn, as we say here. Shadows and light: a biography of Joni Mitchell, by Karen O'Brien. Published by Virgin Books, October 2001. ISBN 1852279761 Jacky ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 16 Jul 2001 09:35:52 -0700 From: "Brenda J. Walker" Subject: Re: Fwd: The Mermaid Cafe http://www.delta-sky.com/editorial/features/holiday/default.htm Harry83house@aol.com wrote: > > Maybe someone already has it out there and can post it for all. You guys and > gals all seem so sweet...love reading my "jmdl" in the morning over coffee. > Roberta Joan Rules! Bye, Harry ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 16 Jul 2001 12:46:33 EDT From: Jodcrazee@aol.com Subject: Re: Neil and Billy Joel(njc) Time Fades Away is my favorite Neil album. Last Dance one of my favorite Neil songs (Not that I can really pick one). Frustrating how Time Fades and On the Beach were never released on cd. A friend of mine had a theory on this, he said maybe Neil is punishing us for not being receptive to these albums when they first came out. I liked them at first listen. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 16 Jul 2001 12:58:06 EDT From: Murphycopy@aol.com Subject: Carole King and the decline of Boomers (NJC) In an article at Salon.com, author and former SPY magazine writer Joe Queenan had this to say: In spite of the boomers' early promise, Queenan believes they simply quit. He says they're taking early retirements and selling out their values to become a venal, self-obsessed group whose legacies will be "quality time," the male ponytail and a belief that Iron Butterfly was indeed a great rock band. The beginning of this downfall, Queenan contends, can be pinpointed to April 21, 1971, the date Carole King's "Tapestry" album was released. On that cataclysmic day, he writes, boomers succumbed to three themes that would define their mind-set: genteel lameness ("You've Got a Friend"), communal nostalgia for the extremely recent past ("So Far Away") and incessant and incorrigible self-repackaging ("Will You Still Love Me Tomorrow"). You can read the entire article, which is pretty funny, at: http://www.salon.com/people/conv/2001/07/13/queenan/index.html --Bob ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 16 Jul 2001 13:08:49 EDT From: BachelorNumero2@aol.com Subject: Prince having Joni affectations? In a message dated 7/16/01 2:22:25 AM Central Daylight Time, les@jmdl.com writes: << Could anyone recommend which Prince cd to listen to as far as being the most inspired by Joni?> >> Well, that's such a hard question to answer because Joni had such an influence on Prince that it totally steered him in the direction of finding a hybrid of rock and soul that was completely his own (hence Joni's struggle with folk and jazz).........Lyrically as well, Joni has completely inspired him. Joni's vocals jumps into soprano (Prince's jumps into soprano), Joni's layers and layers of background vocals (Prince's layers of background vocals), Joni's experimental use of the synthesizer (Prince's etc.....) I think the song that inspired Prince the most was "Shadows and Light"..........his tribute "God" can be found on the The Hits/B-Sides collection.....and it's really interesting to hear his song because it's so obviously inspired by Joni. I remember hearing "God" on the original B-side to "Purple Rain" back in 1984 (when i was 5 yrs old.....I still have the purple vinyl) and I thought it was chilling........when I heard "Shadows and Light" a whole 17 years later, I was like "whoa.......Prince ripped this off!)... I really don't think there is a Joni-influenced album of his.......the closest that comes to mind would be PARADE or maybe SIGN O' THE TIMES. "The Ballad of Dorothy Parker" and "Starfish and Coffee" are definite tributes. PHIL ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 16 Jul 2001 14:16:27 -0400 From: "Bill Dollinger" Subject: Re: joni on cobain (NJC) That reminds me of a very funny saturday night live sketch in which jon lovitz wins a weekend with jewel in alaska. by the end of it, after several repetitions of the story, he would say "yeah yeah, I know, you lived in your car, whatever!" - - he was about ready to shoot himself. (which i guess brings us back around to cobain) bill >But ... but ... JEWEL LIVED IN HER CAR!!! (How many times did she tell that story?) >Poor thing. Lori in DC, who lived in her VW Beetle with her DOG in PHOENIX during the SUMMER of 1982 ... now if I could just find a couple of angst-filled lesbians to help me write a song about it ... ; ) ~ Get personalized email addresses from Yahoo! Mail - only $35 a year! http://personal.mail.yahoo.com/ ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 16 Jul 2001 14:34:59 -0400 From: "janine sherman" Subject: check gas prices NJC >> This is a neat web page you all might like. You put your zip code in and it >> tells you who has the cheapest gas prices near you. >> >> ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 16 Jul 2001 15:09:11 -0400 From: Jerry Notaro Subject: Re: Joni at Mariposa Steve Polifka wrote: > Hey Jerry, > Tell us more! How can you just tease us with: > > >And I was there. My first time seeing Joni. Went early and heard >her > tuning up playing California on her dulcimer. I almost jumped >out of my > skin with excitement! Since I've had a couple of requests to expand, including from Les, I'll explain. The memory is unclear as it will be from years and the trip itself. I had a college radio DJ friend named Sonny Williams who was the only Black guy I knew well up to that point. He was very tall, wore dark shades at night, and wore custom leather belted suits. He would unroll his filter tipped Kool cigarettes and crumble hashish into the tobacco. Then we would smoke them anywhere and get real high. Back then you could smoke anywhere. He was very exotic to this white boy, and probably gay, but we didn't talk about those things back then. He asked if I wanted to go to the Mariposa Folk festival because he knew I was a freak for Joni. He had free tickets and backstage privileges as a dj. Of course it was last minute. We jumped in my 1969 Kharman Ghia and headed for Toronto from Buffalo. We picked up 2 guys on The Queen Elizabeth Highway. We of course were smoking Sonny's Kool cigarettes, and they offered some acid, which we gleefully took. I got very high very fast and had to let Sonny drive. I was very impressed with Sonny's driving, until he complained about the little man riding along on the fender. We made it safely to Toronto and took the ferry over to the islands. I was getting higher by the minute and very pissed at myself. We went to the stage area which was outdoors, and hear a dulcimer. In the middle of nowhere, all alone was Joni tuning her dulcimer and singing California. I thought I had died and gone to heaven, a once in a lifetime mix of acid. The Mariposa Folk Festival is truly folk, not just Greenwich Village folk with all kinds of ethnic performances. It was all druggy blur after that, but I remember how spellbound everyone was when Joni performed that night. She was very much thought of as a home town girl back then. Was it really 29 years ago??!!! Jerry ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 16 Jul 2001 12:24:26 -0700 (PDT) From: Alison E Subject: Re: Joni at Mariposa - --- Jerry Notaro wrote: > I got very high very fast and had to let Sonny > drive. I was very > impressed with Sonny's driving, until he complained > about the little man > riding along on the fender. oh, i know that little man well. LMAO! alison e. in nyc np: joni, WTRF, man to man, which is an impeccably beautiful song, and man! the harmonies. "i stick my nose up in the air......" ohhh, i love it. and everytime this discussion comes up, i put in WTRF and reconfirm for myself that it is a complete and full and unique piece of beauty. Get personalized email addresses from Yahoo! Mail http://personal.mail.yahoo.com/ ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 16 Jul 2001 12:27:09 -0700 (PDT) From: Don Rowe Subject: Re: Joni at Mariposa (now NJC) - --- Jerry Notaro wrote: > and they offered some acid, > which we gleefully > took. I got very high very fast and had to let Sonny > drive. I was very > impressed with Sonny's driving, until he complained > about the little man > riding along on the fender. "I didn't have the heart to tell him this was Monkey Country ... poor bastard would seem 'em soon enough." - -- Hunter Thompson, "Fear & Loathing in Las Vegas" Just had to share that little bit with ya! ;-) Don Rowe ===== Visit me anytime at http://www.mp3.com/donrowe Get personalized email addresses from Yahoo! Mail http://personal.mail.yahoo.com/ ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 16 Jul 2001 12:22:27 -0700 From: "Kakki" Subject: Re: Joni at Mariposa Thanks Jerry - that was great! I could just picture you all. Do you have any photos from the adventure? Btw, my cousin had a new, green '69 Kharman Ghia for awhile but had to cash it in when he decided to move to Northern Cal and become a hippie for awhile ;-) Cute cars but you rarely see them anymore. Kakki ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 16 Jul 2001 15:50:29 -0400 From: "blonde in the bleachers" Subject: RE: joni on cobain I can understand your problem with people who committ suicide, but I can't say that I don't have sympathy for them. Suicide ruins the lives of those people they leave behind, no doubt, but consider the amount of pain someone must be in to do that in the first place. Being part of what people like to label "Generation X" Kurt Cobain's death was a horrible event. Nirvana and Cobain changed the landscape of music in the 90s and brought back music that was original and music that had something to say. His death is as much a milestone as that of Jimi Hendrix, Janis Joplin or Jim Morrison. Obviously Cobain had some serious problems, i.e drugs, Courtney Love, fame but to say that the material possesions he collected and his money was a reason to live is somewhat shallow. Money can buy you a lot of things, and can give you opportunities that others may not have but it can't buy you peace of mind. >From: "Donna J. Binkley" >Reply-To: "Donna J. Binkley" >To: "'susan+rick'" , >Subject: RE: joni on cobain >Date: Fri, 13 Jul 2001 14:29:25 -0500 > >Sorry - but i have no sympathy for people who commit suicide. There's a >saying that goes "those who commit suicide don't end their pain, they leave >it on the shoulders of those who they left behind". The only man i ever >might have married shot himself right in front of me almost 20 years ago, >his family will never be the same, that night changed the course of my life >forever. > >No doubt Cobain was a troubled spirit, but reality check, um let's see, i'm >a millionaire, i'm at the pinnacle of my career, i have everything that most >people don't even get in their whole lifetime - think i'll OFF MYSELF!! > >Sorry if this offends anyone, that is not my intention, but i had to speak >up. > >Donna > >-----Original Message----- >From: les@jmdl.com [mailto:les@jmdl.com]On Behalf Of susan+rick >Sent: Thursday, July 12, 2001 8:43 PM >To: joni@smoe.org >Subject: Re: joni on cobain > > >Bob wrote: > >"I'm a runaway from the record biz > >From the hoods in the hood and the whiny white kids" > > >I'm sure based on what she said about Kurt she would put him in that latter > >category, he might have even inspired the lyric! > >I hope that Joni didn't have Cobain in mind when she wrote those lyrics. >Cobain's songs are not whiney, they are expressions of a very troubled mind. >He wasn't a rich kid playing at angst but a talented musician who suffered >from depression and drug addiction and ended his life despite (because of?) >success. > >While Joni can be irritating and arrogant, I choose to believe that she is >not that insensitive. For now anyway. > >Ranger Rick - ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 16 Jul 2001 12:26:12 -0700 From: "Kakki" Subject: Re: Fwd: The Mermaid Cafe Thanks Harry and Brenda! What a great article - I hope Joni got sent a copy! Kakki > http://www.delta-sky.com/editorial/features/holiday/default.htm ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 16 Jul 2001 14:59:56 -0500 From: "Donna J. Binkley" Subject: FW: joni on cobain - -----Original Message----- From: Donna J. Binkley [mailto:djb@binkleybarfield.com] Sent: Monday, July 16, 2001 10:23 AM To: 'AsharaJM@aol.com' Subject: RE: joni on cobain Thank you Ashara. And to everyone who has replied. Just so you all know, i am the last one to be unsympathetic toward clinical depression. In l982, we didn't have a name for it, neither he or i knew what to do about it, or even what was really wrong. If there was help to be had, we didn't know about it. I love this list because it's so interesting to read our many different opinions on various subjects. And by the way, WTRF was my "Joni got me through it" album for that particular tragedy, it was fairly new at the time. Love to all, Sign me, Hopping, falling, no being knocked off the soap box - ha ha Donna -----Original Message----- From: AsharaJM@aol.com [mailto:AsharaJM@aol.com] Sent: Sunday, July 15, 2001 8:56 AM To: djb@binkleybarfield.com Subject: RE: joni on cobain <> Oh Donna, I am so very sorry to hear this. My heart goes out to you. Hugs, Ashara ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 17 Jul 2001 16:08:39 -0400 From: "Gerald A. Notaro" Subject: Re: Joni at Mariposa Kakki wrote: > Thanks Jerry - that was great! I could just picture you all. Do you have > any photos from the adventure? I surely would have lost the camera! > > > Btw, my cousin had a new, green '69 Kharman Ghia for awhile but had to cash > it in when he decided to move to Northern Cal and become a hippie for awhile > ;-) Cute cars but you rarely see them anymore. Mine was British Racing Green with tan leatherette interior. I loved that car, except for the lack of heat! My friends used to joke that you knew winter had come when you saw Jerry scraping the Inside of his windshield. Jerry ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 16 Jul 2001 15:14:10 -0500 From: "Donna J. Binkley" Subject: RE: joni on cobain Well i tried to send a post to all earlier, but i don't think it made it for some reason. Apparently my feelings on this subject have touched many people on this list - and not in that warm fuzzy place either. The reasons i feel as i do have nothing to do with lack of sympathy for those afflicted by depression. There's a LOT, LOT more to it than i wrote in that post because this isn't a list about my life so i didn't think i should bore everyone - and i won't. I feel that each of us has a right to their opinion, that just happens to be mine. I respect and appreciate all the responses i've gotten. Donna -----Original Message----- From: blonde in the bleachers [mailto:blondeinthebleachers@hotmail.com] Sent: Monday, July 16, 2001 2:50 PM To: djb@binkleybarfield.com; joni@smoe.org Subject: RE: joni on cobain I can understand your problem with people who committ suicide, but I can't say that I don't have sympathy for them. Suicide ruins the lives of those people they leave behind, no doubt, but consider the amount of pain someone must be in to do that in the first place. Being part of what people like to label "Generation X" Kurt Cobain's death was a horrible event. Nirvana and Cobain changed the landscape of music in the 90s and brought back music that was original and music that had something to say. His death is as much a milestone as that of Jimi Hendrix, Janis Joplin or Jim Morrison. Obviously Cobain had some serious problems, i.e drugs, Courtney Love, fame but to say that the material possesions he collected and his money was a reason to live is somewhat shallow. Money can buy you a lot of things, and can give you opportunities that others may not have but it can't buy you peace of mind. >From: "Donna J. Binkley" >Reply-To: "Donna J. Binkley" >To: "'susan+rick'" , >Subject: RE: joni on cobain >Date: Fri, 13 Jul 2001 14:29:25 -0500 > >Sorry - but i have no sympathy for people who commit suicide. There's a >saying that goes "those who commit suicide don't end their pain, they leave >it on the shoulders of those who they left behind". The only man i ever >might have married shot himself right in front of me almost 20 years ago, >his family will never be the same, that night changed the course of my life >forever. > >No doubt Cobain was a troubled spirit, but reality check, um let's see, i'm >a millionaire, i'm at the pinnacle of my career, i have everything that most >people don't even get in their whole lifetime - think i'll OFF MYSELF!! > >Sorry if this offends anyone, that is not my intention, but i had to speak >up. > >Donna > >-----Original Message----- >From: les@jmdl.com [mailto:les@jmdl.com]On Behalf Of susan+rick >Sent: Thursday, July 12, 2001 8:43 PM >To: joni@smoe.org >Subject: Re: joni on cobain > > >Bob wrote: > >"I'm a runaway from the record biz > >From the hoods in the hood and the whiny white kids" > > >I'm sure based on what she said about Kurt she would put him in that latter > >category, he might have even inspired the lyric! > >I hope that Joni didn't have Cobain in mind when she wrote those lyrics. >Cobain's songs are not whiney, they are expressions of a very troubled mind. >He wasn't a rich kid playing at angst but a talented musician who suffered >from depression and drug addiction and ended his life despite (because of?) >success. > >While Joni can be irritating and arrogant, I choose to believe that she is >not that insensitive. For now anyway. > >Ranger Rick - ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- - -- Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 16 Jul 2001 13:13:23 -0700 From: "J. R. Mills" Subject: Re: Joni at Mariposa Fabulous Joni/early 70s anecdote, Jerry. I feel like *I* was there now. Lord knows I've been "expericenced" though, as Jimi would say, if you know what I mean. It says something, although I can't explain exactly what, that so many of us Black folk have been so into Joni for so long. I can't think of many other white artists who have that kind of cross-over appeal, with the possible exception of maybe Janis and Laura Nyro. - -Julius np: Townes Van Zandt - "If I Needed You" (And Hoping the very gifted Alison E. in NYC will duet this one with me in Topsfield, if I make it there after all.) ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 16 Jul 2001 17:19:39 -0300 From: "Wally Kairuz" Subject: RE: Dorothy Parker but this is so amazing!!!!! i started reading her complete works last night!!! what synchro! by the way, i am pretty sure that I AM dorothy parker. wallyK >>>>>>>>>>>>> Parker was given the word "horticulture". She said "You can lead a whore to culture but you can not make her think" ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 17 Jul 2001 16:32:38 -0400 From: "Gerald A. Notaro" Subject: Re: Dorothy Parker - njc Wally Kairuz wrote: > but this is so amazing!!!!! i started reading her complete works last > night!!! what synchro! by the way, i am pretty sure that I AM dorothy > parker. > wallyK Well, at least a Friend of Dorothy's. Jerry :-) ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 16 Jul 2001 13:46:40 -0700 (PDT) From: Don Rowe Subject: RE: joni on cobain - --- blonde in the bleachers > Nirvana and Cobain changed the > landscape of music in the > 90s and brought back music that was original and > music that had something > to say. His death is as much a milestone as that of > Jimi Hendrix, Janis > Joplin or Jim Morrison. I'm genuinely curious about this. To me, Nirvana is a band that produced, at best, one or two half-decent albums. In addition to himself, Cobain also managed to kill the use of real musical dynamics in rock music. The grunge musical equation of "heavy distortion = Chorus" is today, as cliche as the guitar licks and panty-dancers of the pop-metal bands they were reacting to. In fact, there's a credible argument to be made that Cobain & Co. ushered in the precipitous fall of Rock's overall appeal as a genre to it's lowest levels in history. That the major label publicity machine attempted to counteract this by making Cobain's suicide look like some kind of martyrdom to rock 'n roll creativity, and that so many people subsequently bought into it, simply escapes me. In any case, there's hardly a legacy to equal the likes of Hendrix & Joplin ... though I'll grant you that Morrison's self-indulgence makes a somewhat better comparison. Just my take on it ... and one for which I'll beg forgiveness if I've seemed a bit harsh. I really would like to hear what others think about it. Don Rowe ===== Visit me anytime at http://www.mp3.com/donrowe Get personalized email addresses from Yahoo! Mail http://personal.mail.yahoo.com/ ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 16 Jul 2001 17:47:24 -0300 From: "Wally Kairuz" Subject: RE: Dorothy Parker - njc not to mention kansas dorothty!!! - -----Mensaje original----- De: Gerald A. Notaro [mailto:notaro@bayflash.stpt.usf.edu] Enviado el: Martes, 17 de Julio de 2001 05:33 p.m. Para: Wally Kairuz CC: Sharon L. Buffington; joni@smoe.org Asunto: Re: Dorothy Parker - njc Wally Kairuz wrote: > but this is so amazing!!!!! i started reading her complete works last > night!!! what synchro! by the way, i am pretty sure that I AM dorothy > parker. > wallyK Well, at least a Friend of Dorothy's. Jerry :-) ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 16 Jul 2001 18:13:31 -0300 From: "Wally Kairuz" Subject: RE: Joni at Mariposa what a cool cool cool story!!!!!!! i loved it, notaro! wallyK - -----Mensaje original----- De: owner-joni@jmdl.com [mailto:owner-joni@jmdl.com]En nombre de Jerry Notaro Enviado el: Lunes, 16 de Julio de 2001 04:09 p.m. Para: Steve Polifka CC: joni@smoe.org Asunto: Re: Joni at Mariposa Since I've had a couple of requests to expand, including from Les, I'll explain. The memory is unclear as it will be from years and the trip itself. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 16 Jul 2001 17:14:46 -0400 From: Vince Lavieri Subject: Re: Neil l(njc) All Neil Young is prime stuff! Doesn't matter as to quality what his mood is since it is all quality! (the Rev) Vince ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 16 Jul 2001 18:35:33 -0400 From: "janine sherman" Subject: For Baez and her sis fans NJC Baez cancels festival performance PHILADELPHIA (AP) - Folk musician Joan Baez is canceling a performance at a music festival because of her sister's life-threatening cancer. Baez had been scheduled to appear July 21 at a music festival sponsored by WXPN-FM, the public radio station at the University of Pennsylvania. The festival, called the Singer Songwriter Weekend, will continue with other performers, including Baez proteges Dave Carter and Tracy Grammer. The station plans to present a tribute to Baez and have an immense get-well card for her sister, Mimi Farina, which festival participants can sign. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 16 Jul 2001 15:36:38 -0700 From: Randy Remote Subject: Re: joni on cobain now njc I can't say whether Kurt Cobain's legacy rivals that of Hendrix, Joplin, etc, or whether he need to be compared with them. But "Come As You Are", "Smells Like Teen Spirit", "Rape Me" have their place amongst the great rock songs of our time. I think what Cobain did, and/or represented was something that was needed at the time, and was twofold. One, he brought the focus back to the singer-songwriter, and two, pulled us out of the overproduced hair-band music-as-product doldrums of the time. Granted that Neil Young, as the christened 'godfather of grunge' had been doing much the same thing for twenty years already, but it had to be digested and reformed (regurgitated?) by the neXt generation to seem like something fresh. Taking rock 'n' roll out of the arenas, and back to the garage! As Martha Stewart says "It's a good thing". Now we're back to all this Britney/Backstreet junk, time for another revolution, what? RR, who saw Nirvana once at SF's Cow Palace but was coming down with the flu, and left after 3 songs (actually I was there to see L7 who were, like, cool, man...) Don Rowe wrote: > --- blonde in the bleachers > > > Nirvana and Cobain changed the > > landscape of music in the > > 90s and brought back music that was original and > > music that had something > > to say. His death is as much a milestone as that of > > Jimi Hendrix, Janis > > Joplin or Jim Morrison. > > I'm genuinely curious about this. To me, Nirvana is a > band that produced, at best, one or two half-decent > albums. In addition to himself, Cobain also managed > to kill the use of real musical dynamics in rock > music. The grunge musical equation of "heavy > distortion = Chorus" is today, as cliche as the guitar > licks and panty-dancers of the pop-metal bands they > were reacting to. > > In fact, there's a credible argument to be made that > Cobain & Co. ushered in the precipitous fall of Rock's > overall appeal as a genre to it's lowest levels in > history. That the major label publicity machine > attempted to counteract this by making Cobain's > suicide look like some kind of martyrdom to rock 'n > roll creativity, and that so many people subsequently > bought into it, simply escapes me. > > In any case, there's hardly a legacy to equal the > likes of Hendrix & Joplin ... though I'll grant you > that Morrison's self-indulgence makes a somewhat > better comparison. > > Just my take on it ... and one for which I'll beg > forgiveness if I've seemed a bit harsh. I really > would like to hear what others think about it. > > Don Rowe > > > > ===== > Visit me anytime at http://www.mp3.com/donrowe > Get personalized email addresses from Yahoo! Mail > http://personal.mail.yahoo.com/ ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 16 Jul 2001 21:49:59 EDT From: MDESTE1@aol.com Subject: Re: joni on cobain (md)NJC In a message dated 7/16/01 2:00:35 PM Pacific Daylight Time, dgrowe227@yahoo.com writes: Blondin the Bleachers said << Nirvana and Cobain changed the > landscape of music in the > 90s >>> Curt Cobain is really just one of the more prominent artists who died an early death and thus recieved greater credit than was actually due just like Jim Morrison. I never saw Nirvana live but I did see a couple absolutely dreadful performances by The Doors and thought to make a movie about that band was sort of humorous. Im sorry but they sucked. << music that had something > to say. >>> I did watch a huge amount of MTV from its inception until it left the pure video broadcast mode around 1992 and I will say Niravna had to my ears one really good song and I cant even remember the title today. On the other hand I will never forget and can still hear Jimis otherworldly voice singing Purple Haze on an early morning radio alarm wakeup over 30 years ago. Nirvanas style was more or less mainstream based on all the other bands getting exposure especially since there was nothing at all avante garde about either their equipment or their sound.Grunge rock. Im sorry but what is that if it isnt literally grunge. I think had not Cobain died, his music surely would have, as it has, and there would be very few people today who hold his band in the esteem that they do. But whenever someone dies people want to say his death was meaningful or important and mundane accomplishments are lionized. I think its fair to say its hard to imagine the band that has absolutely "nothing" to say exists. They all have something. My biggest gripe is that there is so little originality in the industry today. Nirvana was not an original iMHO. <<< His death is as much a milestone as that of > Jimi Hendrix, Janis Joplin or Jim Morrison. >>> Ooooh I couldnt disagree more. Its hard to find a single professional guitar player today who recognizes Curt Cobain as the influence of his style and technique. Its hard today to find a single professional guitar player who doesnt think Hendrix influenced his playing. Even many who werent born when Jimi walked the earth. As for Janis? Oh my God. Janis was uncopyable. Madonna would be a cartoon on a stage next to Janis. To all other female vocalists, dont even try to go there. Thats why Cass Elliott (who had an outrageous voice) has the look on her face in the movie Monterrey Pop that she does. Im not trying to be hard on a Cobain fan but these are two artists who went totally into uncharted waters. Curt sailed around the bay. Dgrowe said : <<< The grunge musical equation of "heavy distortion = Chorus" is today, as cliche as the guitar licks and panty-dancers of the pop-metal bands they were reacting to.>>> I absolutely agree. <<< In fact, there's a credible argument to be made that Cobain & Co. ushered in the precipitous fall of Rock's overall appeal as a genre to it's lowest levels in history. >>> I would go this far. I think overexposure and overhype of the more mediocre artists has been just as responsible. Not only that I think the concert ticketmaster axis is very responsible as is the death of the true club scene. Cobain had nothing to do with that. <<< That the major label publicity machine attempted to counteract this by making Cobain's suicide look like some kind of martyrdom to rock 'n roll creativity, and that so many people subsequently bought into it, simply escapes me.>>> People as a whole buy into alot of hype overall. <<< In any case, there's hardly a legacy to equal the likes of Hendrix & Joplin ... though I'll grant you that Morrison's self-indulgence makes a somewhat better comparison. >>>> My comments above reiterated. Don Rowe ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 16 Jul 2001 23:18:08 -0400 From: "Jim L'Hommedieu" Subject: ebay: premium vinyl C&S, 100% JC There's an auction of ebay of Joni's remarkable and accessible "Court and Spark". http://cgi.ebay.com/aw-cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=1447344353 As usual, I'll state that, while this record can not be faulted on artistic merit, some tape edits are easily heard and the sonic clarity (even on this superior Nautilus 1/2 speed pressing) does not equal the majesty, the spine-tingling, the breathtaking purity of a nice copy of "For The Roses" on a nice British or Scottish turntable. Anyway, someone will really enjoy this........ Lama ps- I also recommend the 1/2 speed version of "Dreamboat Annie", also up for auction. I never heard the regular pressing but I wouldn't trade my 1/2 speed copy...... ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 16 Jul 2001 23:21:44 -0400 From: "Jim L'Hommedieu" Subject: Re: Carole King feature article - NJC Hey Hell, Not to be argumentative here (since I'm looking forward to meeting you at the church in Topsfield in a few weeks!) but.... If I recall, lots of the songs on Tapestry were previously written. She was in the enviable position of being able to choose songs from her considerable back catalog (and obviously did a remarkable job, too!). Count me as a fan of Tapestry! BTW, who else has a copy of "Carole King: Writer"? >>>>>I have a video where she talks about getting to work in the morning, and being told something like "the Drifters need a new hit record - you've got until Friday" and she and Gerry Goffin would tuck themselves away until they had a song >>>>> then.... >>>>> >>>>>Obviously the process of writing the songs for Tapestry (at least the ones she wrote) was different>>>> Checking in after moving to the inner city during this career-rebuilding year, Lama ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 17 Jul 2001 00:40:56 -0300 From: "Wally Kairuz" Subject: RE: Carole King feature article - NJC hey no jim. only two songs had been written prior to tapestry. the rest are from 1971. wallyK - -----Mensaje original----- De: owner-joni@jmdl.com [mailto:owner-joni@jmdl.com]En nombre de Jim L'Hommedieu Enviado el: Martes, 17 de Julio de 2001 12:22 a.m. Para: hell@ihug.co.nz CC: Jmdl (E-mail) Asunto: Re: Carole King feature article - NJC Hey Hell, Not to be argumentative here (since I'm looking forward to meeting you at the church in Topsfield in a few weeks!) but.... If I recall, lots of the songs on Tapestry were previously written. Lama ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 17 Jul 2001 00:26:54 -0400 From: "Jim L'Hommedieu" Subject: ccccc cars... njc Least favorite: Pinto wagon that had been in an accident and crab-walked. It really should have been cubed but it was all that I could afford and I never drove it on the freeway. It was complete with genuine-imitation fake wood siding. I never enjoyed a single minute behind the wheel of this piece of junk. Gees, we Americans made some crappy cars! Most favorite: White, 1975, VW/Porsche 914. This thing had a fuel-injected VW 4 cylinder engine mounted at **mid-ship**. The front end was (designed by Porsche) with a 911 front end, unmodified, dropped right in. Oh my, did that thing "corner"! The removable roof was stored in the back trunk. Oh gees, that was fun. I still have the (huge) VDO tachometer with glass bezel from my (earlier) '72 914. Oh.... oh..... gees..... gees, now I MISS it! Lama ps. Presently driving a 1988 Volvo wagon with nice metallic silver paint. This thing has already lived two lifetimes (>211 thousand miles) and is going strong. The only rust is where the owner (ahem!) neglected to care for stone chips- in a car 13 years old! ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 16 Jul 2001 21:43:20 -0700 From: "Kakki" Subject: Re: joni on cobain (njc) Donna, I won't second guess what is personally behind your statements and you need not explain them. My interpretation was that it hurt you very much. A degree of anger and resentment is understandable under such circumstances. Not to negate in any way the suffering of a person who wants to take their life (we can really never fathom the depths of it), but the loved ones they leave behind do suffer terribly, too. Kakki >Well i tried to send a post to all earlier, but i don't think >it made it for some reason. Apparently my feelings on >this subject have touched many people on this list - and >not in that warm fuzzy place either. The reasons i feel as >i do have nothing to do with lack of sympathy for those >afflicted by depression. There's a LOT, LOT more to it >than i wrote in that post because this isn't a list about my >life so i didn't think i should bore > everyone - and i won't. > > I feel that each of us has a right to their opinion, that just happens to be mine. I respect and appreciate all the responses i've gotten. > > Donna ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 16 Jul 2001 22:00:25 -0700 From: "Kakki" Subject: Re: ccccc cars... njc Lama wrote: > Pinto wagon that had been in an accident and crab-walked. It really should > have been cubed Hee hee, what an "eloquent" way to put it! In retrospect I think they were built to be "cubed" immediately. > Most favorite: > > White, 1975, VW/Porsche 914. >> Oh.... oh..... gees..... gees, now I MISS it! I am SO sorry ;-( I'm sure it was fun while it lasted ;-) My current: 1989 Mercedes 190 in desperate need of paint and little Bondo along some of the dents. Up side - low miles, nice interior, feels "secure." My most reliable: 1972 Mercedes 250 - only needed brakes and an occasional oil change after driving the hell out of it for 5 years. My absolute worst: 1974 Mercedes 280 - not even an exorcist could have fixed it. Everything was replaced at least twice in the few years I owned it. If I'd saved what I spent in repairs I could have afforded my dream favorite: Porsche Boxster (any color) Kakki (never on a Mercedes income but fell in love with the make as a kid and bought them all used for a song ;-D ------------------------------ End of JMDL Digest V2001 #297 ***************************** ------- Post messages to the list by clicking here: mailto:joni@smoe.org Unsubscribe by clicking here: mailto:joni-digest-request@smoe.org?body=unsubscribe ------- Siquomb, isn't she?