From: les@jmdl.com (JMDL Digest) To: joni-digest@smoe.org Subject: JMDL Digest V2001 #265 Reply-To: joni@smoe.org Sender: les@jmdl.com Errors-To: les@jmdl.com Precedence: bulk Unsubscribe: mailto:joni-digest-request@smoe.org?body=unsubscribe Archives: http://www.smoe.org/lists/joni Websites: http://www.jmdl.com http://www.jonimitchell.com JMDL Digest Friday, June 22 2001 Volume 2001 : Number 265 The Official Joni Mitchell Homepage, created by Wally Breese, can be found at http://www.jonimitchell.com. It contains the latest news, a detailed bio, Original Interviews, essays, lyrics and much much more. The JMDL website can be found at http://www.jmdl.com and contains interviews, articles, the member gallery, archives, and much more. Information on the 4th "Annual" New England JoniFest: http://www.jmdl.com/jfne2001.cfm ========== TOPICS and authors in this Digest: -------- John Lee Hooker (RIP) [MDESTE1@aol.com] Re: review of DJRD - long post [Bobsart48@aol.com] Re: JMDL Digest V2001 #264 [Bobsart48@aol.com] Re: JMDL Digest V2001 #264 [Bobsart48@aol.com] Re: review of DJRD - long post ["Kakki" ] Sonic Dating [BachelorNumero2@aol.com] Re: John Lee Hooker (RIP) (njc) ["Kakki" ] re: Nuriel's review of BSN ["Robert Holliston" ] Donald Fagen? [Jim Johanson ] ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Thu, 21 Jun 2001 22:42:01 EDT From: MDESTE1@aol.com Subject: John Lee Hooker (RIP) I just saw on the news the passing of John Lee Hooker. One of the absolute legends. His influence is never given all that he deserves. He invented Bo Diddly. He is the ultimate hero of Van Morrison. Hes one of those cats that his music sounds so simple yet no one could ever really duplicate his phrasing because it was always so unpredictable. The rhythmic infrastructure of his songs was along with Robert Johnson a huge part of the ingredients of the 60s blues rock. I will miss him. Marcel ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 21 Jun 2001 23:47:19 EDT From: Bobsart48@aol.com Subject: Re: review of DJRD - long post Kakki referred us to a review with: "I found this review from Rolling Stone on the JMDL articles site amusing -http://www.jmdl.com/articles/docs/780309rs.cfm Janet Maslin completely flicks it off (along with Hissing and Hejira, no less). I love reading some of these old reviews and wonder if the authors ever reconsidered their appraisals listening to the albums again years later." Well, I confess again that I probably would have concurred with the reviewer at that time, and I have certainly reconsidered my appraisal of DJRD, since I currently listen to it as often as (if not more often than) any of her others. And I like it a lot - or I wouldn't listen to it. Still, it is not a bad review as reviews go - it is written with some intelligence - and it is not entirely a negative review of Joni and her work, either. I would love to pick apart all of the lines of the review (a reviewer puts oneself on the line for posterity to critique and criticize, just as the artist does), but here are most of the key ones (hopefully not too out of context): In retrospect, Blue turns out to been the album that displayed Joni Mitchell at her most buoyant and comfortable - with herself, with the nature of her talents, and with the conventions of pop songwriting. This may still be true. Of all the many things she has been very good or great at, the conventional songwriting of Blue may still be (is imho) her shining moment, in that she planted her flag at the top of a mountain that so many others were trying to climb, and arguably have not since scaled. That she then went on to try to climb less populous mountains, even if the mountains were more difficult and the climbers more skilled technically, does not make her achievements in those endeavors greater than the original. It does evoke my admiration, however. She has dabbled with jazz and African tribal music, ventured deep inside herself and fled far away. But, always, the unpredictable caliber of her work has been as exciting as it is frustrating. Now for once, she has gambled and lost. The best that can be said for Don Juan's Reckless Daughter is that it is an instructive failure. As Kakki said, she pans it (tho that is not quite same as flicking it off, at least to my east coast ears ;-) Note also the phrase "for once". Since Blue, Mitchell has demonstrated an increasing fondness for formats that don't suit her. I would have agreed back then (but in retrospect, I would have modified the above by adding "as well" at the end). But increasingly, Mitchell's pretensions have shaped her appraisal of her own gifts.......These days, Mitchell appears bent on repudiating her own flair for popular songwriting, and on staking her claim to the kind of artistry that, when it's real, doesn't need to announce itself so stridently. Well, I think time has shown that it is real. However, I confess that back then I was torn between (a) the suspicion of pretentiousness bravely (or foolishly) posited above, and (b) a more forgiving reaction with the same result - that even if Joni was a top artist in that arena as well, she had lost me, since I did not get it. My love for her and her work led me to settle on the latter interpretation, whereby I conceded that she had passed me by. Twenty plus years later, I believe that I settled correctly, having finally come to appreciate that work. There is a lot of pressure on a reviewer when, under time constraints, she has to produce a review of a work by a person of far greater talent, based on insufficient time to absorb, feel and analyze. Don Juan's Reckless Daughter is a double album that should have been a single album. It's sapped of emotion and full of ideas that should have remained whims, melodies that should have been riffs, songs that should have been fragments. That is not so far from what has been discussed with rather more levity right here on the list. At its worst, it is a painful illustration of how different the standards that govern poetry and song lyrics can be, and an indication that Joni Mitchell's talents, stretched here to the breaking point, lend themselves much more naturally to the latter form. Her writing works best when it's compact, yet the record's expansive mood forces her to belabor, in the title song, the precious contrast between a snake (or a train, as well as the author's baser instincts) and an eagle (or an airplane, plus a longing for "clarity") for nearly seven minutes. Yes, I suspect Joni is a great lyricist rather than a great poet. But the reviewer presumes that these two disciplines are mutually exclusive, and that there can be no movement in lyricism toward poetry. Anyway, a darn good 7 minutes, imho. The reviewer may have only had a 3 minute attention span. ;-) Mitchell's music has evolved into a kind of neutral background, rolling on endlessly in either a languid spirit ("Jericho) or a nervous one ("Dreamland"). Somehow, she has chosen to abandon melody at a time when she needs it urgently. I thought the same then. I did not appreciate that the more tightly-knit melodies of her HOSL, Hejira, DJRD era were very melodic nevertheless; if the reviewer did not think so, perhaps she should have tried singing them. Here (referring to 'Tenth World) and elsewhere, there seems to be the notion that blacks and Third World people have more rhythm, more fun and a secret mischievous viewpoint that the author, dressed as a black man in one of the photos on the front jacket, presumes to share. On the numbing, sixteen-minute "Paprika Plains" ,we also learn about Indians, who "cut off their braids/And lost some link with nature." There may be something to this, I suspect. Note the somewhat sarcastic use of the word "learn". "Talk to Me" is the LP's most enduring number: as a terribly embarrassing song about feeling terribly embarrassed, it has a scary appropriateness. I agree with this assessment. This song holds up very well, and will probably continue to do so for a long time. Underrated. But I also love the title song as an autobiographical portrait in verse. But even though there are no real solutions to the album's mysteries or explanations for its lapses, Joni Mitchell's resilience has been demonstrated often enough to make speculation about such things appear superfluous. She's bound to be back when the time is right and her mood is less drowsy, less disengaged than it seems here. Until then, we're left with Don Juan's Reckless Daughter, in all its recklessness. The lyrics of DJRD are, in large part, disengaged, a far cry from Blue and FTR. Yet the reviewer is confident to the point of certainty that "her resilient Joni" will return ("bound to be back"). The reviewer did not like the album then. Like Kakki, I wonder if Ms.Maslin has since changed her mind (like I did). I bet she - hung up on conventional melodies - probably liked Night Ride Home when it came out. Really, the reaction in this review is probably typical of many - including fans - who listened to DJRD. It was wrong, but for many of us it took some time to figure that out. In the meantime, Joni's fan base was both shifting and shrinking, I suspect. A pity. But the best of us (critics and fans) know the truth, and the recognition and tributes did come eventually, albeit belatedly. Hope she realizes that the belated nature of the recognition was for a reason - one that puts her in the highest artistic company, historically. :-) Bob S ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 22 Jun 2001 00:07:44 EDT From: Bobsart48@aol.com Subject: Re: JMDL Digest V2001 #264 Nuriel wrote: "Subject: Both Jaws Now It seems obvious that Madamme Mitchell's motivation for releasing the preposterous "Both Sides Now" is purely dental: the old lady of the canyon needs cash to finance her extensive oral treatments. Otherwise one could not explain how an artist who was once appreciated for innovation and for demanding the utmost from herself would hand us this ragbag of geriatric love-songs. Joni is singing love-songs to no-one. Listening to this album feels like a visit to a children's theme-park (whose theme is LOVE), lacking even a single exciting ride. Is it possible that after all we have gone through with Joni, we wind up with heap of sentimental cliches, lyrically on a par with the crassest pop music on offer in every record shop? It seems that the several last years of rubbing shoulders with the American entertainment bourgoise, and recieving their accolades and honors, have finally gotten to Joni: Both Sides Now is a Christmas gift for the self-indulgent classes, to sing along to as they hanker for the Good Old Days. Nuriel " See Kakki - now that's what I call "flicking it off". Nuriel may be missing the point about these classic songs, but he is so humble about doing so, that I have to admire his review ;-) ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 22 Jun 2001 00:29:41 EDT From: Bobsart48@aol.com Subject: Re: JMDL Digest V2001 #264 Nuriel wrote: "Both Jaws Now Listening to this album feels like a visit to a children's theme-park (whose theme is LOVE), lacking even a single exciting ride." PS to my earlier response - will someone send this man a ticket to the "loop-the-loop" - it's an old ride, too, but at least it's exciting ! :-~ PPS - do not send him Billy Holiday's Greatest Hits ;-) ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 21 Jun 2001 20:48:59 -0700 From: "Kakki" Subject: Re: review of DJRD - long post Hi Bob, I've admitted many times here that when DJRD first came out I thought it was some of the weirdest sh*t I'd ever heard! But I could not dismiss it and was compelled to play it over and over to try to "get" it. I also didn't feel like "why isn't she writing stuff like Blue and FTR anymore?" It was very apparent that the former Joni "era" was long packed away at that point and one either needed to move along with her (as bumbling as that felt at the time) or to just stop at that point and never move past Court and Spark. When Maslin writes as her very first line of the review: > In retrospect, Blue turns out to been the album that displayed Joni Mitchell > at her most buoyant and comfortable - with herself, with the nature of her > talents, and with the conventions of pop songwriting. it feels to me like she has flicked off most of what followed after Blue. She poses her conclusion in the very first line. This also sounds very patronizing and dismissive to my ears: > She has dabbled with jazz and African tribal music, ventured deep inside > herself and fled far away. But, always, the unpredictable caliber of her work > has been as exciting as it is frustrating. Now for once, she has gambled and > lost. The best that can be said for Don Juan's Reckless Daughter is that it > is an instructive failure. > As Kakki said, she pans it (tho that is not quite same as flicking it off, at > least to my east coast ears ;-) Note also the phrase "for once". I have experienced a difference in left and east coast ears when it comes to perception of certain criticisms but that's a long other subject ;-) This one cracked me up - talk about the pot calling the kettle.......: > But increasingly, Mitchell's pretensions have shaped her appraisal of her own > gifts.......These days, Mitchell appears bent on repudiating her own flair > for popular songwriting, and on staking her claim to the kind of artistry > that, when it's real, doesn't need to announce itself so stridently. > There is a lot of pressure on a reviewer when, under time constraints, she has to produce a review of a work > by a person of far greater talent, based on insufficient time to absorb, feel > and analyze. Agreed. Guess I would have respected Maslin's opinion more if she had just admitted that it was odd and baffling and tried to muddle it out from there. But I thought that you left out some of the more withering comments like: >The painful banality of Mitchell's lyrics - there is nothing said here that she hasn't said better before, except those things she >should have kept to herself - is almost the least of her problems. Behind a treacly tide like "The Silky Veils of Ardor" lurks an >even treaclier notion: that the romantic visions of love put forth by certain folk songs are one thing, that reality is another, and >that the singer apparently yearns for both. "It's just in my dreams we fly," the song concludes, with a reference to "The Water >Is Wide." Or, as a dialogue balloon on one of the inner sleeves puts it, "In my dweems we fwy." The album offers what is, >one can only hope, the ultimate in cute cover art. >It also offers the ultimate in potshots: "Otis and Marlena," a facile, snidely sung song about tourists who come to Miami "for >fun and sun/While Muslims stick up Washington." This leads into "The Tenth World," a mostly instrumental percussion track >featuring Jaco Pastorius (who plays on a majority of the record with distinction, but without much helpful influence), Airto >and Chaka Khan (who hums). She even flicks off Jaco, Airto and Chaka, lol! > Really, the reaction in this review is probably typical of many - including > fans - who listened to DJRD. It was wrong, but for many of us it took some > time to figure that out. I totally agree. And for those who are about to lecture me how critics are entitled to their opinion, etc., etc., yes I also agree. I just find it funny to go back and read this stuff and then think of how some things are sometimes reappraised dramatically with the passage of time. Kakki Kakki ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 22 Jun 2001 00:54:52 EDT From: BachelorNumero2@aol.com Subject: Sonic Dating hey folks........ Anyone can say what they want about Joni's "weird" or experimental works of the seventies.....BUT one thing critics never applaud is the strength of her vision..........Her output (at least up until the "Wild Things"/"Dog Eat Dog" period) is all Joni.........there are no disco sounds to be found on her late seventies albums............Had she followed the crowd, DJRD would have heavy synths and funk bass and "Dreamland" would be "Discoland" instead. I can listen to the majority of "Hejira", "DJRD", and "Mingus" and not be able to tell that those were 70's albums........This is largely due to the fact that she was working with Jazz musicians, who use real instruments and don't rely on dazzling/state-of-the art production. Her 70's output (for the most part) can truly be considered "timeless"...........something that many of her seventies counterparts cannot say. Unfortunately the same cannot be said about her 80's output, and that factor alone can turn away some listeners (I'm included)......It's hard to not focus on those awful synths on "Dog" and "Chalk Mark" or that cheezy metal guitar on "Wild Things".............. When I listened to the "Hits" cd for the first time, I realized something had gone wrong when "Chinese Cafe" came on.........I was cringing at the production (not the song mind you, it's a personal fav) and how it sounded so dated and so unlike the "Joni" that was leading up to it. So it is evident even to new Joni listeners that her "taste in production" had shifted gears (in the wrong direction) at the time of "Wild Things"...........Now, can we attribute that to her involvement with Larry Klein?? I don't believe so. So, Joni decided to experiment with some of the "hot new sounds" of the era and it didn't work for her........we should give her credit for all the albums that she didn't fall victim to the temptation. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 21 Jun 2001 21:11:12 -0700 From: "Kakki" Subject: Re: John Lee Hooker (RIP) (njc) I'm stunned - he was performing on a regular schedule just recently. I found this on AP: SAN FRANCISCO (AP) - Veteran bluesman John Lee Hooker, whose foot stompin' and gravelly voice on songs like ``Boom Boom'' and ``Boogie Chillen'' electrified audiences and inspired generations of musicians, died Thursday. He was 83. Hooker died of natural causes as he slept at his home in Los Altos, south of San Francisco, said agent Mike Kappus and manager Rick Bates. The veteran blues singer from the Mississippi Delta estimated he recorded more than 100 albums over nearly seven decades. He won a Grammy Award for a version of ``I'm In The Mood,'' was inducted into the Rock and Roll Hall of Fame in 1991 and received a Lifetime Achievement Award at last year's Grammys (news - web sites). Through it all, Hooker's music remained hypnotic and unchanged - his rich and sonorous voice, full of ancient hurt, coupled with a brooding, rhythmic guitar. He sang of loneliness and confusion. Neither polished nor urbane, his music was raw, primal emotion. His distinctive sound influenced rock 'n' rollers as well as rhythm and blues musicians. Among those whose music drew heavily on Hooker's style are Van Morrison, the Rolling Stones, Eric Clapton, Bruce Springsteen, Bonnie Raitt and ZZ Top. In 1961, the then-unknown Rolling Stones opened for him on a European tour; he also shared a bill that year with Bob Dylan at a club in New York. Even in the '90s, when his fame was sealed and he was widely recognized as one of the grandfathers of pop music, Hooker remained a little in awe of his own success, telling The Times of London, ``People say I'm a genius but I don't know about that.'' Like many postwar bluesmen, Hooker got cheated by one fly-by-night record producer after another, who demanded exclusivity or didn't pay. Hooker fought back by recording with rival producers under a slew of different names: Texas Slim, John Lee Booker, John Lee Cocker, Delta John, Birmingham Sam and the Boogie Man, among others. Hooker's popularity grew steadily as he rode the wave of rock in the '50s into the folk boom of the '60s. In 1980, he played a street musician in ``The Blues Brothers'' movie. In 1985, his songs were used in Steven Spielberg's film, ``The Color Purple.'' Hooker hit it big again in 1990 with his album ``The Healer,'' featuring duets with Carlos Santana, Raitt and Robert Cray. It sold 1.5 million copies and won him his first Grammy Award, for a duet with Raitt on ``I'm in the Mood.'' Several more albums followed, including one recorded to celebrate his 75th birthday, titled ``Chill Out.'' Born in Clarksdale, Miss., in 1917, Hooker was one of 11 children born to a Baptist minister and sharecropper who discouraged his son's musical bent. His stepfather taught him to play guitar. By the time Hooker was a teen-ager, he was performing at local fish fries, dances and other occasions. Hooker hit the road to perform by the age of 14. He worked odd jobs by day and played small bars at night in Memphis, Tenn., then Cincinnati and finally Detroit in 1943. In Detroit, he was discovered and recorded his first hit, ``Boogie Chillen,'' in 1948. ``I don't know what a genius is,'' he told the London newspaper. ``I know there ain't no one ever sound like me, except maybe my stepfather. You hear all the kids trying to play like B.B. (King), and they ain't going to because, ooh, he's such a fine player and a very great man. But you never hear them even try and sound like John Lee Hooker.'' ``All these years, I ain't done nothin' different,'' he added. ``I been doing the same things as in my younger days, when I was coming up, and now here I am, an old man, up there in the charts. And I say, well, what happened? Have they just thought up the real John Lee Hooker, is that it? And I think, well, I won't tell nobody else! I can't help but wonder what happened.'' In his later years, Hooker laid back and enjoyed his success. He recorded only occasionally; he posed for blue jeans and hard liquor ads. He played benefits from time to time, but mostly performed in small clubs, dropping in unannounced. Mostly, though, he hung out with friends and family at his homes in Los Altos and Long Beach, watching baseball and enjoying a fleet of expensive cars. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 21 Jun 2001 22:03:03 -0700 From: "Robert Holliston" Subject: re: Nuriel's review of BSN Well, folks, here are some more thoughts: I agree with the wonderful Sue Cameron: hearing the CD and experiencing the show live were two different experiences. I even wondered if it would have been better for Joni to have toured first and then recorded: her live performances seemed so much more spontaneous. That said, though, whenever I listen to BSN, I head right for the title song and ACOY. I virtually never listen to the rest of it any more. And, truth be told, even during the concert, I really appreciated her own songs the most, and also Trouble Man, in which I think she really kicks ass! So, Nuriel, you won't get flamed by me, except for suggesting that Joni took on this project for any other reason than love for the music. AND for suggesting that JMDLers are indulging in nostalgia when listening to these songs: trust me, even the oldest of us is too young to have been aware of this music when it was current ;-) Otherwise, her teeth look pretty good to me, and I don't think she's suffering much financially ;-). Plus, I doubt she made much, if anything, on this project But I have to say, I continue on the whole to be underwhelmed by this CD, despite loving her revisitation of "Both Sides Now." My $0.02 Roberto _________________________________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 21 Jun 2001 22:49:22 -0700 From: Jim Johanson Subject: Donald Fagen? Hi all -- not posting this to jonimitchell.com until I can confirm that it's not a rumor, but thought you might be interested (or maybe it's old news and somebody knows where I can confirm the info, cautious sort that I am). I received a message yesterday telling me that Steely Dan recorded "Carey" for "A Case of Joni" recently. The info apparently originated with Roger Nichols (their engineer), who certainly would know, in an EQ magazine article; so far I haven't been able to find the article so I can verify what I've been told. I'm starting to think just about anything can happen with this CD. But Donald Fagen singing "Carey"? Go figure. Truth be told, I'd be happy if somebody would just give me a release date! jj ------------------------------ End of JMDL Digest V2001 #265 ***************************** ------- Post messages to the list by clicking here: mailto:joni@smoe.org Unsubscribe by clicking here: mailto:joni-digest-request@smoe.org?body=unsubscribe ------- Siquomb, isn't she?