From: les@jmdl.com (JMDL Digest) To: joni-digest@smoe.org Subject: JMDL Digest V2001 #264 Reply-To: joni@smoe.org Sender: les@jmdl.com Errors-To: les@jmdl.com Precedence: bulk Unsubscribe: mailto:joni-digest-request@smoe.org?body=unsubscribe Archives: http://www.smoe.org/lists/joni Websites: http://www.jmdl.com http://www.jonimitchell.com JMDL Digest Thursday, June 21 2001 Volume 2001 : Number 264 The Official Joni Mitchell Homepage, created by Wally Breese, can be found at http://www.jonimitchell.com. It contains the latest news, a detailed bio, Original Interviews, essays, lyrics and much much more. The JMDL website can be found at http://www.jmdl.com and contains interviews, articles, the member gallery, archives, and much more. Information on the 4th "Annual" New England JoniFest: http://www.jmdl.com/jfne2001.cfm ========== TOPICS and authors in this Digest: -------- Today in Joni History: June 21 [les@jmdl.com] oh my GOD, patrick NJC ["Wally Kairuz" ] Re: Subject: Pissing and telling...dancing & telling (SJC) ["Kakki" ] Eddie Reader (NJC) [pyramus@lineone.net] Re: Midwest "FEST" report (NJC) [FMYFL@aol.com] Re: Today in Joni History: June 21 [SCJoniGuy@aol.com] RE: Does this line ruin "L.I.S."? [mintagli@ypf.com.ar] RE: Does this line ruin "L.I.S."? [SCJoniGuy@aol.com] Carole King Question...NJC [CHRIS TREACY ] Don Juan's Reckless Editing [CHRIS TREACY ] Re: Eddie Reader (NJC) [SCJoniGuy@aol.com] (no subject) [Jodcrazee@aol.com] Lesson in Survival [Jodcrazee@aol.com] Re: Eddi Reader (NJC) [AzeemAK@aol.com] RE: Carole King Question...NJC ["Wally Kairuz" ] Re: David Wilcox in Atlanta! (NJC) [Alison E ] Re: Does this line ruin "L.I.S."? ["blonde in the bleachers" ] june 21!!!!!!!!!!!!!! (NJC) ["Wally Kairuz" ] RE: june 21!!!!!!!!!!!!!! (NJC) ["Wally Kairuz" ] Re: june 21!!!!!!!!!!!!!! (NJC) [RoseMJoy@aol.com] Joni and Klein ["Gerald Notaro (LIB)" ] Sound and Vision ["Gerald Notaro (LIB)" ] Both Jaws Now [Nuriel Tobias ] Re: Both Jaws Now [AzeemAK@aol.com] Re: Both Jaws Now [colin ] Paprika plains / Susannah McCorkle NJC ["brian symes" ] Rufus-NJC ["Gerald Notaro (LIB)" ] Re: Carole King Question...NJC ["hell" ] Joni mention ["hell" ] Re: Lesson in Survival [Randy Remote ] Re: PWWAM [Randy Remote ] Both Sides Now ["Suze Cameron" ] Re: Both Jaws Now [Randy Remote ] Re: Joni and Klein [Randy Remote ] Re: Joni and Klein ["Gerald Notaro (LIB)" ] Re: Both Jaws Now [Randy Remote ] Re: Joni and Klein ["Gerald Notaro (LIB)" ] Re: so much Joni! ["hell" ] Re: so much Joni! [RoseMJoy@aol.com] Re: DJRD - what would you cut ?MDL Digest V2001 #263 [Bobsart48@aol.com] Re: DJRD - what would you cut ? [Bobsart48@aol.com] Re: Don Juan Cuts [Mitch327@aol.com] Re: What's new and different? njc ["Jim] Sherelle's voice, was "RE: Various: NJC" ["Jim L'Hommedieu" ] Re: Midwest "FEST" report (NJC) [Michael Paz ] ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Thu, 21 Jun 2001 03:09:57 -0400 From: les@jmdl.com Subject: Today in Joni History: June 21 On June 21 in Joni Mitchell History: 1967: Today, Joni begins a three-week engagement at the "Le Hibou" coffeehouse in Ottawa. More info: http://www.jmdl.com/articles/docs/670628v.cfm - ------------------------ Search (and contribute to) the "Today" database: http://www.jmdl.com/today ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 21 Jun 2001 04:08:43 -0300 From: "Wally Kairuz" Subject: oh my GOD, patrick NJC lord almighty, leader!!!!! we can't believe we missed your birthday. so very sorry!!! much love and many happy returns to father patrick... wallyK and the BF ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 21 Jun 2001 00:22:58 -0700 From: "Kakki" Subject: Re: Subject: Pissing and telling...dancing & telling (SJC) Oh Lawdy..... Roger gets around - he was dancing with a group next to me at a small nightclub in Redondo Beach a couple years ago, too. ;-D Loved your story, Paz, it does sound like a night to remember! Kakki > If memeory serves I think it was Roger Clinton and of course me. It was a > freaky night. Did I tell the story about Clinton TRYING to sing Love The One > Your With? I certainly did love the ones "I" was with, but Roger's singing > was a little to "white" for the Neville Brothers for my taste. I am > researching the date of that show for my boy Les for his Joni Diary. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 21 Jun 2001 09:33:23 +0100 From: colin Subject: Re: I Can't Seem To Make It Socially SMEBD@aol.com wrote: > In a message dated 6/20/01 6:45:34 PM Eastern Daylight Time, > colin@tantra-apso.com writes: > > > >> both lines seem to suggest a shaky self esteem too > > I agree. I think in many ways Joni is a very vulnerable person. This > comes > thru in many of her lyrics. This aspect of her personality is one of > the > things that I was most able to identify with when I first started > listening > to her music. She had the ability to express what I was feeling. > Don't get > me wrong, I do think that she is a very strong woman--she is a > survivor--but > I feel that underneath all of the bravado, there is a very fragile and > > beautiful soul. Yes tho the same could be said for all of us whether we see our vulnerability or not. bw colin - -- bw colin BRO GC, 950i 940,864, 260, 890,Silver 830 and 270, Passap 6000 Duo80 colin@tantra-apso.com http://www.tantra-apso.com ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 21 Jun 2001 11:27:46 +0100 (BST) From: pyramus@lineone.net Subject: Eddie Reader (NJC) Hi Bob. Hope you well. I see from the NP on your messages to the list that you have been playing the 'Eddie Reader' album. Your taste is impeccable. I love Eddie Reader, have all her albums. Have you had a chance to listen to 'Simple Soul', her latest? It is a simple, unassuming album of beautifully crafted tunes. Eddie doesn't get half the recognition she deserves. She doesn't have hits, struggles to get record deals but always comes up with the goods. She has a small but loyal following and by all accounts is highly regarded in the British music community, all a good recipe for low sales I would say. This is how Time Out magazine reviewed the album. "Low-key and tender, 'Simple Soul' is almost homeopathic in its understatement. A million miles from the production values of 'Perfect'(the number one hit reader enjoyed with fairground Attraction) the new songs,nevertheless retain that discs emotional clarity. Reader writes tunes that are honest, quietly poetic and possess lovely, simple hooks. 'Lucky Penny' effortlessly evokes a talismanic faith. 'The Wanting Kind' speaks of deeper needs. Restless searching informs many of the tracks. With the exception of her distinctive version of Jackson C Frank's classic 'Blues Run The Game' all the material is original., often written in collabaration with with Boo Hewerdine, who adds his guitar and vocals. As a recoding stylist Reader can be a bit of a chameleon. There are references in 'Simple Soul'to the Beach Boys (the bubbling accompaniment to 'Wolves' mirroring 'Don't Go Near The Water')and Johnny Cash (the beautiful percussive guitar of 'Footseps Fall' echoing the Spanish-tinged 'Ring of Fire'. Yet she assimilates these fleeting passages with great care, absorbing them into what may well be her strongest performances to date." John Crosby - Time Out. March 2001 Kevin ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 21 Jun 2001 07:42:05 EDT From: FMYFL@aol.com Subject: Re: Midwest "FEST" report (NJC) In a message dated 6/21/01 1:59:04 AM Eastern Daylight Time, jmichaelpaz@telocity.com writes: > BTW > last time I checked I thought I had about 275 paid people thru the door at > That's right, I forgot about the Howling Wolf. MAYBE OF CD OF THE EVENT MIGHT JOG MY MEMORY!!!! (hee hee hee) Jimmy ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 21 Jun 2001 08:17:32 EDT From: SCJoniGuy@aol.com Subject: Re: Today in Joni History: June 21 <<1967: Today, Joni begins a three-week engagement at the "Le Hibou" coffeehouse in Ottawa. More info: http://www.jmdl.com/articles/docs/670628v.cfm>> Man, I don't know what I would like better...a copy of that gig, or seeing Joni in an intimate club for $1.75!! ;~) Bob NP: Pete Droge, "Beautiful Girl" ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 21 Jun 2001 10:09:14 -0300 From: mintagli@ypf.com.ar Subject: RE: Does this line ruin "L.I.S."? I listened to "For the roses" for the first time a month ago. It's become quite an obsession ever since. And I have to admit that the line: "Oh baby I can't seem to make it with you socially" is one of the very few troubling passages I encounter in a record that I've found unusually easy to love. I would blame the difficulty partly on the high, penetrating "baby" but essentially I would blame it on the "socially" which to me sounds... journalistic, or too technical -out of place in such a lyrical, melancholy song. On the other hand, I think that line completes the story she's narrating, so eventhough I don't enjoy it, I would describe it as necessary. There goes another very useful post of mine. Mariana, sleepy and cold in Argentina ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 21 Jun 2001 09:40:52 EDT From: SCJoniGuy@aol.com Subject: RE: Does this line ruin "L.I.S."? <<-out of place in such a lyrical, melancholy song. >> Which may have been a very conscious effort on Joni's part... I think it's like the line in Song For Sharon: "But all I *really* want to do is - find another lover" in which she speaks directly and to the point for an effect. I think in LIS she uses this same technique to convey that on one level, there's an undercurrent of what she percieves is happening with his friends, but on a pure GUT level she's saying that it's JUST NOT WORKING. Now, there's the possibility that I'm over-reading or giving Joni too much credit, and that the line is stylistically a mistake, another "big boo-hoo", but Joni has proven to be much more brilliant than I, so I'll give her the benefit of the doubt! ;~) Bob NP: Red House Painters, "Blindfold" ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 21 Jun 2001 07:01:42 -0700 (PDT) From: CHRIS TREACY Subject: Carole King Question...NJC Does anyone know the origin of the recording "Blue Morning Modal Alive"? It's an instrumental track by Carole King, and sounds like it was done fairly recently (the last 10 years anyway), and is also somehow linked to Windham Hill records. If you haven't heard the track, and you are a King fan, it's GORGEOUS! Listening to it, w/o vocal track, it sounds just like a CK piano track should with all her idiosyncratic flourishes. Just wondering where it came from. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 21 Jun 2001 06:58:03 -0700 (PDT) From: CHRIS TREACY Subject: Don Juan's Reckless Editing If I had to edit the recording, It's Paprika Plains I'd be rid of. Though quite beautiful in parts, I think it's a wee bit overblown. Plus, there's something about the vocal take that's annoying to me. Sorry that I cannot be more specific, DJRD is my second fave JM recording (Hissing is #1), and this one track has always stood out to me as unnecessary. However, the previously metioned thought of editing Otis & Marlena to an (OMIGAWD!) instrumental is blasphemy. All IMHO. NP:"Breaking Up Somebody's Home"-Patty Griffin ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 21 Jun 2001 10:03:17 EDT From: SCJoniGuy@aol.com Subject: Re: Eddie Reader (NJC) <> Hi Kevin, actually it's my buddy Sgt. Rock in the UK who has the impeccable taste. He sent me that Eddi Reader CD, and I have enjoyed it immensely. It's the only one I have currently, but she's certainly an artist I'd like to investigate further. Reminds me a lot of Harriet Wheeler & The Sundays, a band that I also love. Bob NP: Red House Painters, "Three-Legged Cat" (That's one way to keep Man From Mars from running away! LOL) ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 21 Jun 2001 10:14:51 EDT From: Jodcrazee@aol.com Subject: (no subject) That was a beautiful interpretatio. It is like someone else from the group. If my friend were to hear Song For Sharon again today she would probably interpret it differently. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 21 Jun 2001 10:25:24 EDT From: Jodcrazee@aol.com Subject: Lesson in Survival I have always heard this was about the brief time she was with Jackson Browne. And isn't he the subject of "Not to Blame"? When asked about this Jackson just said "Joni is not well." ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 21 Jun 2001 10:34:02 EDT From: AzeemAK@aol.com Subject: Re: Eddi Reader (NJC) In a message dated 21/06/01 11:34:57 GMT Daylight Time, pyramus@lineone.net writes: << I love Eddie Reader, have all her albums. Have you had a chance to listen to 'Simple Soul', her latest? It is a simple, unassuming album of beautifully crafted tunes. Eddie doesn't get half the recognition she deserves. She doesn't have hits, struggles to get record deals but always comes up with the goods. She has a small but loyal following and by all accounts is highly regarded in the British music community, all a good recipe for low sales I would say. >> Ah, count me in as a big fan - she's one of these islands' loveliest voices, as well as being a combination of remarkably level-headed and a bit barking. I've only heard the new album once, and it sounds fine; I think it'll go some to reach the heights of the last album, Angels & Electricity, especially the first song, Kitefliers Hill, which was one of the most swooningly beautiful songs of the last decade (written by former Fairground Attraction mainman Mark Nevin). One curious thing about Time out's review of the new album was this phrase: << A million miles from the production values of 'Perfect' (the number one hit Reader enjoyed with fairground Attraction) >> To which I say "Eh???" Fairground Attraction were one of the most lo-fi bands ever to climb the greasy pop pole, and "Perfect" could fit quite comfortably on the new album, sticking out more for its jauntiness than any "production values". Methinks the TO critic's memory was playing tricks. Azeem in London NP: Jane Siberry - Haint it Funny (from a fantastic collection of Siberry rarities for which I can hardly thank Catherine enough - but here goes again, Catherine!) ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 21 Jun 2001 13:04:14 -0300 From: "Wally Kairuz" Subject: RE: Carole King Question...NJC oh my god oh my god oh my god!!!! what's this i hear? DETAILS PLEASE! wallyK, kinghead - -----Mensaje original----- De: owner-joni@jmdl.com [mailto:owner-joni@jmdl.com]En nombre de CHRIS TREACY Enviado el: Jueves, 21 de Junio de 2001 11:02 a.m. Para: joni@smoe.org Asunto: Carole King Question...NJC Does anyone know the origin of the recording "Blue Morning Modal Alive"? It's an instrumental track by Carole King, and sounds like it was done fairly recently (the last 10 years anyway), and is also somehow linked to Windham Hill records. If you haven't heard the track, and you are a King fan, it's GORGEOUS! Listening to it, w/o vocal track, it sounds just like a CK piano track should with all her idiosyncratic flourishes. Just wondering where it came from. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 21 Jun 2001 09:10:09 -0700 (PDT) From: Alison E Subject: Re: David Wilcox in Atlanta! (NJC) - --- Steve Harper wrote: > > Ken and I went to see David Wilcox last Friday > evening. steve, i LOVE david wilcox. i am always amazed when people don't know him, he's been around for so long. i always assume that people are led to other "contemporary" folk artists (i.e. jonatha, john gorka, patty larkin, etc.) through their love of joni... of course some people come to joni through jazz or i don't know, a million other routes, or find contemporary folk boring and repetitive... but i digress... he is an incredible songwriter, guitarist, etc. his voice is like butter. it's very rich and emotive and so lovely to listen to. > So, in summary, buy his "East Asheville Hardware" CD > first, if you haven't, > then all seven of the others. You won't be sorry. i would differ here by recommending "how did you find me here" as a first buy. it's some of his best songwriting, i think. "big horizon" is another FANTASTIC recording from start to finish. > > P.S. The new Mary Chapin Carpenter CD is > wonderful... i'm glad to hear this, too, i was just asking bob if he had heard it. (all inquiries herewith must pass through the slut first, you see). i'm a big mary fan, who's very-made-up and glamourized face has been plastered all over new york city lately) she has apparently decided that sex will help her sell some more records, losing quite a bit of weight and spending some time in a stylists chair. another giant leap for women everywhere... alison e. in nyc Get personalized email addresses from Yahoo! Mail http://personal.mail.yahoo.com/ ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 21 Jun 2001 13:31:39 -0400 From: "blonde in the bleachers" Subject: Re: Does this line ruin "L.I.S."? Not every relationship can overcome public opinion, especially when one or possibly both people are famous musicians. People are not willing to admit that what other people say can affect how they think, act, and feel in some intances and it can lead people to sway one way or another. It would seem that Joni is willing to make a commitment to this person and at one time she did believe in their love, he seems to be the one unwilling to budge and she may believe it is because of his friends and their attitude towards her. "I can't seem to make it with you socially, there's this reef around me" >From: colin >Reply-To: colin >To: Joni@smoe.org >Subject: Re: Does this line ruin "L.I.S."? >Date: Wed, 20 Jun 2001 22:35:12 +0100 > >blonde in the bleachers wrote: > > > It would seem that his friends don't like her > >and this is a good reason to end a relationship? Is Joni being shallow here? >Or does he treat her differently because his friends don't like her? Has he >not told his friends'well fuck you, I like her'? > >I don't think social class, race, friends, careers, family and all the other >excuses are good enough reasons to end a relationship. Now if two people >don't get on, can;t communicate, can't share, they are good reasons for a >relationship to end. Ending because of other people is rather wimpy. > >In two weeks time it is our 20th anniversary and we are having a mini Joni >gettogether to celebrate it. John and I come from completely different social >backgrounds, have comnpletely different tastes in music, arts ect, different >attitudes to life, very different temperaments. we have had no family to back >our union, no societal backing, no legal backing, no spiritual backing. In >fact we have had much pressure opposing our union. However, we committed to >eachother at the get go, worked thru our idfferences and let our love of >eachother see us thru the rough times(and there have been rough times-you try >living with a bipolar abuse survivor!). Above all we accept eachother as we >are and don't try and change eachother. >John gets what he wants and needs from me and me from him. We each have >different sets of friends that supply our other needs. The two sets don't mix >and have never met. Our careers compliment eachother-he a high flying >professional and me a knitwear designer cum house queen. He got what he wated >out of life in terms of career and I got what I wanted-love and stability. >Career never interested me. >bw >colin > > > > > > > "Maybe its paranoia,maybe its sensitivity, your friends protect you, > > scrutinize me, I get so damn timid, not at all the spirit that's inside > > of me, oh baby I can't seem to make it with you socially" - ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 21 Jun 2001 20:33:45 +0100 From: colin Subject: Re: Does this line ruin "L.I.S."? blonde in the bleachers wrote: > Not every relationship can overcome public opinion, especially when one > or possibly both people are famous musicians. People are not willing to > admit that what other people say can affect how they think, act, and feel > in some intances and it can lead people to sway one way or another. true tho it doesn't have to be that way. it boils down to character. > It > would seem that Joni is willing to make a commitment to this person and > at one time she did believe in their love, he seems to be the one > unwilling to budge and she may believe it is because of his friends and > their attitude towards her. If so, i think she is wrong. If there is fault it would lie with the lover not with the friends. He seems rather fickle and someone she is better off without. > "I can't seem to make it with you socially, > there's this reef around me" bw colin BRO GC, 950i 940,864, 260, 890,Silver 830 and 270, Passap 6000 Duo80 colin@tantra-apso.com http://www.tantra-apso.com ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 21 Jun 2001 17:23:18 -0300 From: "Wally Kairuz" Subject: june 21!!!!!!!!!!!!!! (NJC) HOLD ON EVERYBODY!!!!!! WINTER SOLSTICE! SOLAR ECLIPSE IN CAPRICORN! JEFF CLARK'S BIRTHDAY!!!!!!!!! YES, in the middle of so much astrological havoc, chelsea boy jeff is finally turning 17! and he won't look it! hey, jeff, will ya please start looking YOUR AGE?!?!?!?!? you make us all oh so envious... H A P P Y B I R T H D A Y SWEET YOUNG THANG! the birthday fairy, ITS fingers frozen on this winter solstice day. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 21 Jun 2001 17:35:31 -0300 From: "Wally Kairuz" Subject: RE: june 21!!!!!!!!!!!!!! (NJC) how hemisphere-centered one can be? of course it's SUMMER solstice overe there!!! pardon our equatorially-challenged nature.... WK and THe BF ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 21 Jun 2001 15:43:10 -0500 From: "William Waddell" Subject: PWWAM PWWAM - more like POW! WHAM! I know this is old stuff for the Line but I just watched "Painting with Words and Music" and was wondering if it was a select audience or what. What did Graham Nash mean by "I've been carrying this award around for a year"? i.e. the R&R Hall of Fame ornament. Were any of you JMDLers there? BTW, here's what I'd omit from DJRD: Have a great weekend. Willy the Shake _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 21 Jun 2001 16:58:53 EDT From: RoseMJoy@aol.com Subject: Re: june 21!!!!!!!!!!!!!! (NJC) HAPPY F*%KING BIRTHDAY JEFF!! rosemjoy@aol.com ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 21 Jun 2001 18:34:56 -0400 (EDT) From: "Gerald Notaro (LIB)" Subject: Joni and Klein There is a very interesting article in the July/August 2001 on engineering with Larry Klein. Some significant info on BSN recording. Les, it's on its way. Jerry ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 21 Jun 2001 18:39:48 -0400 (EDT) From: "Gerald Notaro (LIB)" Subject: Sound and Vision There is also a review of the DVD-Audio release of Both Sides now in the issue. When I was in NYC I noticed BSN DVD-A prominently displayed at all the big stores with a big gold grammy winner sticker. Nothing for Joni to complain about there. Jerry ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 21 Jun 2001 15:44:01 -0700 (PDT) From: Nuriel Tobias Subject: Both Jaws Now It seems obvious that Madamme Mitchell's motivation for releasing the preposterous "Both Sides Now" is purely dental: the old lady of the canyon needs cash to finance her extensive oral treatments. Otherwise one could not explain how an artist who was once appreciated for innovation and for demanding the utmost from herself would hand us this ragbag of geriatric love-songs. Joni is singing love-songs to no-one. Listening to this album feels like a visit to a children's theme-park (whose theme is LOVE), lacking even a single exciting ride. Is it possible that after all we have gone through with Joni, we wind up with heap of sentimental cliches, lyrically on a par with the crassest pop music on offer in every record shop? It seems that the several last years of rubbing shoulders with the American entertainment bourgoise, and recieving their accolades and honors, have finally gotten to Joni: Both Sides Now is a Christmas gift for the self-indulgent classes, to sing along to as they hanker for the Good Old Days. Nuriel _____________________________________________________________ Free email, web pages, news, entertainment, weather and MORE! Check out -------------------------------> http://wowmail.com ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 21 Jun 2001 18:59:29 EDT From: AzeemAK@aol.com Subject: Re: Both Jaws Now In a message dated 21/06/01 23:50:33 GMT Daylight Time, nuriel@wowmail.com writes: << It seems obvious that Madamme Mitchell's motivation for releasing the preposterous "Both Sides Now" is purely dental: the old lady of the canyon needs cash to finance her extensive oral treatments. Otherwise one could not explain how an artist who was once appreciated for innovation and for demanding the utmost from herself would hand us this ragbag of geriatric love-songs. >> Good heavens, Nuriel - send for the flak shields now! My take on this is that I don't listen to it now, and some of my own reservations about the project still hold firm as far as I'm concerned. I think the arrangements are stunning, and yet I don't feel Joni's voice is suited to the songs, and it seems light years away from her best work. I don't agree about her motivation for embarking on the project - I think she fancies herself as an interpreter of standards, and only hope that she loses that notion and cops a lesson from Dylan's amazing comeback with Time Out Of Mind. Azeem in London ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 22 Jun 2001 00:22:44 +0100 From: colin Subject: Re: Both Jaws Now First of all, I thought the title of this email was clever and amusing. Second of all, I can't say i disagree with the rest of the email except I don't think she made it in order to pay her dentist! As azeem said already, out for flame proofs on. I said, long ebfore BSN was released, that i thought it would be a mistake as Joni's voice was not suited to this type of singing( or as my partner said' she has amazing talent as a musician and songrwriter but she still can't sing'.) and you should have seen the flames thrown! One person even left the list because he couldn't understand how anyone could say anything negative at all about the Goddess! I would much rather have had another of her own compositions. Nuriel Tobias wrote: > It seems obvious that Madamme Mitchell's motivation for releasing the preposterous "Both Sides Now" is purely dental: the old lady of the canyon needs cash to finance her extensive oral treatments. Otherwise one could not explain how an artist who was once appreciated for innovation and for demanding the utmost from herself would hand us this ragbag of geriatric love-songs. > Joni is singing love-songs to no-one. Listening to this album feels like a visit to a children's theme-park (whose theme is LOVE), lacking even a single exciting ride. Is it possible that after all we have gone through with Joni, we wind up with heap of sentimental cliches, lyrically on a par with the crassest pop music on offer in every record shop? > It seems that the several last years of rubbing shoulders with the American entertainment bourgoise, and recieving their accolades and honors, have finally gotten to Joni: Both Sides Now is a Christmas gift for the self-indulgent classes, to sing along to as they hanker for the Good Old Days. > > Nuriel > > _____________________________________________________________ > Free email, web pages, news, entertainment, weather and MORE! > Check out -------------------------------> http://wowmail.com - -- bw colin BRO GC, 950i 940,864, 260, 890,Silver 830 and 270, Passap 6000 Duo80 colin@tantra-apso.com http://www.tantra-apso.com ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 21 Jun 2001 16:20:48 -0700 From: "brian symes" Subject: Paprika plains / Susannah McCorkle NJC I pity the FOOL that does not fully appreciate Paprika Plains Joni was expanding her creative ability's in escaping from the 3 minute pop songs that still swamp the radio waves.I would love to here Joni play Ludwig's Emperor Concerto. News takes time to reach this busy architect here in Oregon but I am am deeply saddened by hearing about Susannah's death Her voice like Joni's was only getting deeper and more expressive with age. I was always dreaming of seeing her Sing with Frishberg playing with her on the Keys because she did his songs so wonderfully. NP Sussannah, Something To Live For. Sign up for a free About Email account at http://About.com ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 21 Jun 2001 19:31:20 -0400 From: dsk Subject: Re: David Wilcox in Atlanta! (NJC) Alison and Steve gush: > steve, i LOVE david wilcox. i am always amazed when > people don't know him, ...he is an incredible songwriter, guitarist, > etc. his voice is like butter. it's very rich and emotive and so > lovely to listen to. > > So, in summary, buy his "East Asheville Hardware" CD > > first, if you haven't, > > then all seven of the others. You won't be sorry. Such a lovefest... wish I could join in, but I don't like his music at all!!! I bought a couple of his cds after reading similar remarks about a year ago. Yes, rushed out and spent hard cold cash, and what a disappointment! All cute little ditties, and lots of talk about love but NO passion expressed, I mean, really, no heat, no depth, no energy, no complexity, just a superficial sweetness and light, which I found uninteresting and even annoying. His guitar playing got boring very quickly too. So I'd suggest giving him a non-paid-for listen first. I can appreciate how others might enjoy listening to him, and hearing everything he's done or seeing him perform might change my mind, but probably not. Two cds was a pretty good try I think. Debra Shea P.S. I don't like Jonatha's music much either, and can't stand that whine in her voice, so... what do I know? ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 21 Jun 2001 19:36:20 -0400 (EDT) From: "Gerald Notaro (LIB)" Subject: Rufus-NJC For you Rufus detractors out there, and Allison and Wally specifically but I won't name names. Quotes From the new Audiophile review of Poses: Rufus Wainwright makes pop music that sounds as if it is of, by, and for another era - as if his competition weren't Britney Spears, the Backstreet Boys, and Destiny's Child, but Cole Porter, Irving Berlin, and George and Ira Gershwin. No one but Wainwright is making such brave and uncompromising music these days, which is why he's really only in competition with himself. And he is winning. Jerry ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 22 Jun 2001 11:39:49 +1200 From: "hell" Subject: Re: Carole King Question...NJC Chris wrote: > Does anyone know the origin of the recording "Blue > Morning Modal Alive"? It's an instrumental track by > Carole King, and sounds like it was done fairly > recently (the last 10 years anyway), and is also > somehow linked to Windham Hill records. If you haven't > heard the track, and you are a King fan, it's > GORGEOUS! Listening to it, w/o vocal track, it sounds > just like a CK piano track should with all her > idiosyncratic flourishes. Just wondering where it came from. I thought I was pretty familiar with her work, but I've never heard of this one. So after a quick search on the 'net I found the following: This is a link to an album called "Honor Them All" put together to support awareness of the group MADD (Mothers Against Drunk Driving), and this track appears on the album, but I'm not sure if that's it's origin. http://www.ideafinder.com/resource/archives/amd-madd.htm There's also an album on CDNow, called "Songs Without Words" which also features this song (and you can also hear a short sound-clip). The album was released in 1997, but that doesn't necessarily mean a lot. If anyone has any further info. I'd also be interested. There's a distinct lack of information about Carole King on the 'net - I can't believe there a no dedicated fans creating webpages in her honour! Hell ____________________________ "To have great poets, there must be great audiences too." - Walt Whitman hell@ihug.co.nz Hell's Personal Photo Page: http://homepages.ihug.co.nz/~hell/main/personal.htm Visit the NBLs (Natural Born Losers) at: http://www.nbls.co.nz ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 22 Jun 2001 11:45:50 +1200 From: "hell" Subject: Joni mention Continuing the Carole King theme (sort of) I found this little snippet the other day, while searching for information on Louise Goffin (daughter of Carole King). I'm not sure if it's been mentioned here before or not: "Louise has precious memories, of sitting on Aretha Franklin's knee when she was recording Natural Woman, and of Joni Mitchell sketching her backstage at a concert. Yet she is wary of mythologizing her upbringing. 'I feel like my parents were the parents of my creativity in a way, but in terms of getting direction and learning how to take care of things, it was really not an environment where they could have a family responsibility. I was like a kid around other kids and it's been a long road figuring out how grown-ups actually function in the world.'" You can see the entire thing here: http://www.unm.edu/~rocks/l_goffin.htm Hell ____________________________ "To have great poets, there must be great audiences too." - Walt Whitman hell@ihug.co.nz Hell's Personal Photo Page: http://homepages.ihug.co.nz/~hell/main/personal.htm Visit the NBLs (Natural Born Losers) at: http://www.nbls.co.nz ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 21 Jun 2001 17:00:19 -0700 From: Randy Remote Subject: Re: Lesson in Survival When "Not To Blame" came out, JB made public comments about how nasty it was of Joni to write this song about him without even talking to him. For her part, she has denied that it IS about him, but some of the references say otherwise.... The "For The Roses" songs including LIS are presumably about Joni's breakup with James Taylor. The line "Black road double yellow line" seems to be a veiled clue; JT had just finished the movie "Two Lane Blacktop". Also "Friends and kin, campers in the kitchen" fits: Livingstone and Kate Taylor were performing musicians at the time. Joni seems to be complaining about not having enough "one on one" with James, and feeling uneasy within his social circle. RR Jodcrazee@aol.com wrote: > I have always heard this was about the brief time she was with Jackson > Browne. And isn't he the subject of "Not to Blame"? When asked about this > Jackson just said "Joni is not well." ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 21 Jun 2001 17:02:24 -0700 From: Randy Remote Subject: Re: PWWAM Joni received her induction into the Rock and Roll Hall of Fame the year before-she was a no-show, so Nash accepted it on her behalf. Joni's relationship with Rolling Stone (who are behind the RRH of F) has been pretty rocky over the years. From her comments about keeping the award in the bag it would seem she had little regard for it. Her surprise at Nash standing up and presenting it to her seems genuine. As for your question about the audience; there were some jmdl'ers at the taping(s), some appear in the video-maybe they can tell you about it. RR ps I would emit the same from DJRD William Waddell wrote: > PWWAM - more like POW! WHAM! I know this is old stuff for the Line but I > just watched "Painting with Words and Music" and was wondering if it was a > select audience or what. What did Graham Nash mean by "I've been carrying > this award around for a year"? i.e. the R&R Hall of Fame ornament. Were any > of you JMDLers there? BTW, here's what I'd omit from DJRD: > > Have a great weekend. > Willy the Shake > _________________________________________________________________ > Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 21 Jun 2001 20:05:39 -0400 From: "Suze Cameron" Subject: Both Sides Now Guess Nuriel and Colin weren't blessed with seeing and hearing this event live. Yes, her voice has suffered with smoking/age. Yes, at times the orchestra overwhelmed her. To hear A Case of You, For the Roses... The album for me is sentimental as it also reminds me of the lovely gathering held in Detroit, where new friends met and old friends were reacquainting. Sorry guys, no flames, just a different point of view. Hey, isn't that why we are all here :-) np: washer spinning up clothes for the gathering in Chicago. Get 250 color business cards for FREE! http://businesscards.lycos.com/vp/fastpath/ ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 21 Jun 2001 17:07:53 -0700 From: Randy Remote Subject: Re: Both Jaws Now Wait 'til she does her album of Xmas songs...I'm not making this up, either...her plan as of last year was to do two more orchestral projects, the first of originals, the 2nd of "Xmas" stuff- apparently something like "River" would qualify because it mentions "Xmas" once. She has referred to it as her "Have Yourself a Dreary Little Xmas" album. I would be elated if she dropped the idea- but I reckon Joni will do what she damn well wants to. As far as Joni doing BSN for the money, I doubt if it has made any...she financed it herself...went to England to hire out an orchestra...I don't think it has sold more than 300,000 copies- figure in record co. promotion, touring....she may be eating through a straw for awhile! RR , who has played BSN twice and has no immediate plans to play it again.... Nuriel Tobias wrote: > It seems obvious that Madamme Mitchell's motivation for releasing the preposterous "Both Sides Now" is purely dental: the old lady of the canyon needs cash to finance her extensive oral treatments. Otherwise one could not explain how an artist who was once appreciated for innovation and for demanding the utmost from herself would hand us this ragbag of geriatric love-songs. > Joni is singing love-songs to no-one. Listening to this album feels like a visit to a children's theme-park (whose theme is LOVE), lacking even a single exciting ride. Is it possible that after all we have gone through with Joni, we wind up with heap of sentimental cliches, lyrically on a par with the crassest pop music on offer in every record shop? > It seems that the several last years of rubbing shoulders with the American entertainment bourgoise, and recieving their accolades and honors, have finally gotten to Joni: Both Sides Now is a Christmas gift for the self-indulgent classes, to sing along to as they hanker for the Good Old Days. > > Nuriel ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 21 Jun 2001 17:09:07 -0700 From: Randy Remote Subject: Re: Joni and Klein What magazine? "Gerald Notaro (LIB)" wrote: > There is a very interesting article in the July/August 2001 on engineering > with Larry Klein. Some significant info on BSN recording. Les, it's on its > way. > > Jerry ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 21 Jun 2001 20:14:52 -0400 (EDT) From: "Gerald Notaro (LIB)" Subject: Re: Joni and Klein Sound and Vision. Jerry On Thu, 21 Jun 2001, Randy Remote wrote: > What magazine? > > "Gerald Notaro (LIB)" wrote: > > > There is a very interesting article in the July/August 2001 on engineering > > with Larry Klein. Some significant info on BSN recording. Les, it's on its > > way. > > > > Jerry ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 21 Jun 2001 17:27:12 -0700 From: Randy Remote Subject: Re: Both Jaws Now Randy Remote wrote: > > her plan as of last year was to do two more orchestral > projects, the first of originals, Clarification: this would be a collection of her old songs done up with orchestra, not new material. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 21 Jun 2001 20:23:24 -0400 (EDT) From: "Gerald Notaro (LIB)" Subject: Re: Joni and Klein Sorry. Sound and Vision. Jerry On Thu, 21 Jun 2001, Randy Remote wrote: > What magazine? > > "Gerald Notaro (LIB)" wrote: > > > There is a very interesting article in the July/August 2001 on engineering > > with Larry Klein. Some significant info on BSN recording. Les, it's on its > > way. > > > > Jerry ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 22 Jun 2001 12:54:42 +1200 From: "hell" Subject: Re: so much Joni! Anne wrote, and so I'll add my comments too: > LIS - no, I don't think the line "Oh baby, I can't seem to make it with you > socially" ruins the song at all. BUT it does need the relative sparseness of > the following line "There's this reef around me" to complete the thought > literally, musically, and rhythmically. I've always thought this was more about Joni not accepting the group, rather than the group not accepting her. The line "there's this reef around me" seems to me to mean that she's got this invisible "shield" around her, making it impossible for anyone to get close. > Song for Sharon - I was thinking about the line "I've still got my eyes on > the land and the > sky" which I've often puzzled over. I think she's referring to being on the > road and precisely the image from the song book for Hejira. (I forget if > it's on the CD booklet anywhere.) The image shows just land, including the > road ahead, and sky. I think she's saying that that's all she sees. And, no, > I don't think the song refers to her wanting to have an affair with Sharon's > husband. She's just "restless for home and routine." The line "I've still got my eyes on the land and the sky" always seemed to me to be a reference to the horizon, and that she's always looking at what's ahead, rather than where she actually is. > WTRF - I like WTRF. A lot, actually. It's interesting too because Joni sings > actually HAPPY love songs on it! For me, it kind of fills a Joni void > because there were times before WTRF when I was happy and didn't have a Joni > song to listen to for the occasion... Of course, if it were me, I'd just go > to the bank, withdraw whatever money necessary, and buy whatever Joni I > didn't have... I wish there were still some Joni albums I didn't have. I love hearing a new album from an artist I love - but it just doesn't happen often enough! Hell ____________________________ "To have great poets, there must be great audiences too." - Walt Whitman hell@ihug.co.nz Hell's Personal Photo Page: http://homepages.ihug.co.nz/~hell/main/personal.htm Visit the NBLs (Natural Born Losers) at: http://www.nbls.co.nz ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 21 Jun 2001 21:12:04 EDT From: RoseMJoy@aol.com Subject: Re: so much Joni! In a message dated 6/21/01 9:03:16 PM Eastern Daylight Time, hell@ihug.co.nz writes: > I've always thought this was more about Joni not accepting the group, rather > than the group not accepting her. The line "there's this reef around me" > seems to me to mean that she's got this invisible "shield" around her, > making it impossible for anyone to get close. > > I always felt this way too Hell. I think maybe the problem or obstacles lie within Joni herself, not the group. Or, perhaps maybe she just wants to spend some time alone with this guy and have all his attention on her. rosemjoy@aol.com ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 21 Jun 2001 21:24:21 EDT From: Bobsart48@aol.com Subject: Re: DJRD - what would you cut ?MDL Digest V2001 #263 ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 21 Jun 2001 21:33:35 EDT From: Bobsart48@aol.com Subject: Re: DJRD - what would you cut ? In a previous post, I had suggested I would cut Jericho and Tenth World, and move Otis and Marlena to Jericho's spot. SCJoniGuy then posed the question: "So anyway Bob, are you saying that it should not have been released in studio form at all? Would it have fit better on Hejira? (I think maybe it fits better there). Or maybe you're thinking something else." I originally replied off-line so as not to offend anyone, but my opinions seemed no stronger than some others that followed, so I will share my reply to Bob M. "I am replying off line so as to avoid irritating others on the list who hold Jericho among their favorites. First, my post was intended to be semi-humorous, in that I really think it is pretentious of me to be second guessing her on what "should" (a big word) or should not be on her creations. Hopefully, I made that clear. Second, that said, I really was thinking "how could I turn DJRD into a regular length CD ?" And my answer was sincere in that regard, albeit arrogant and therefor stupid (since I am flirting with repeating the mistakes of my past). Primarily, I do not think it fits on DJRD. DJRD is, to me, a brilliant but sort of manic-depressive work. More manic, actually. Punctuated by Silky Veils, the depressive side, and perhaps revealing of the source of the manic behavior. Jericho is much more rational, contemplative, intellectual. It really does not fit to me. However, I think she did well to leave it off of Hissing (and certainly Hejira, since I think it would have diluted that album, and I suspect that album begins where the Jericho relationship itself tumbled down). Also, however, I find the song musically mediocre, and the lyrical content disappointingly shallow - almost immature. She says to Love "I promise to do better, and work harder at it, at making it a two way street" (I paraphrase, at best). If these were then current revelations or insights that she was sharing (my gut reaction is "duh"), they hint to me that the depths of her prior self absorption must have been quite great, which I prefer not to accept as the likely truth. I think, rather, that the work lacks confidence - she is on unsteady ground, as the lyrics themselves suggest - and is trying too hard to force success in an area with which she has been struggling. She sounds like the golfer who feels she needs to re-vamp her whole swing, when really it is just one or two corrections, and her swing is basically pretty much ok as is. In a sense, then, she is in between games, and the cut is perfectly placed in MOA, which as a tour album is part of a transitional period for her. I guess, then, if I were in charge of the editing, I would have left it off of the studio albums - at least the ones she actually produced. Sentimentally, I think it might be better suited to WTRF, but I am not yet really into that album enough to feel strongly about that - just an impression at this moment. I could be all wet. I always enjoy your posts - you have a fan here. Bob S." ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 21 Jun 2001 21:56:51 EDT From: Mitch327@aol.com Subject: Re: Don Juan Cuts How about just a 70 minute version of the title track? NP - Bela Fleck "Blue Mountain Hop" ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 21 Jun 2001 21:57:00 -0400 From: "Jim L'Hommedieu" Subject: Re: What's new and different? njc Nuriel asked: >>>I'd like to know if there is any news on Joni's upcoming record.<<< *** I'll field this one. As luck would have it, I've already seen Joni's newest collaborator here in Cincinnati a few years ago. His name is Pierre Schotzen. He's of French - Polish ancestry but he was raised by a bunch of Zydeco-loving gypsies. He's fluent in Polkas too but his real love is Jazz. If you've never heard "Take Five" played on an accordion (and corkscrew!) in 8/12 time, accompanied by his ex-wife, Loretta, on timbale, well folks, you haven't lived! I am especially fond of the double-time shuffle break on the Hammond B3. Joni met him at a telecommunications convention in Zanzibar, which is funny because Zanzibar has a low per-capital usage of telephones. Anyway, let's just say that Joni and ol' Pierre hit it off. They extended their stay and worked up great new numbers. Lyrically, Joni's working with country influences time out. Sample title: "Leave Big Momma's Brushes Alone (Or I'll Have You Stuffed And Mounted, Marlin)" Lama ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 21 Jun 2001 21:57:57 -0400 From: "Jim L'Hommedieu" Subject: Sherelle's voice, was "RE: Various: NJC" Yeah. This is pretty close to my memory of Sherelle's voice. (Sherelle, I apologize for 'reviewing' you, right in front of your face, as if you're not here. Anyway, it's all good, or I wouldn't say it at all.) Back in 98, I heard a lot of people singing at JulZie's house and it was my first taste of how great JoniFests would be. Lots of voices. It's always great to hear the _love_ that people share when they sing Joni's songs. I love to hear everyone, everyone singing. Some people have great pitch and lousy time. Some have no pitch at all. Most have a little pitch and a little time. Then, Sherelle opened her mouth and I swear, it was like *** LIGHT *** filled that room. I mean, we all just _knew_. I remember looking around, shaking my head, thinking, like, "We all are _seeing_ this, right? This is the SHIT, right?" She has it. When Brando or Streep are on screen, everyone just knows. It's like that when Sherelle sings. Then the song ends, and the waves of applause end, and she's totally oblivious and goes, "What's next?" (Claud9 did this after doing "Conversation" at Atty May's last year. So did Bryan after "Black Crow" at Ashara's in 98. It's the sound of humility as everyone ELSE in the room picks their jaws up, off the floor.) Patrick wrote: >>>> sherelle seems to have the best of both: a gorgeous rich tone like a low cello string that's ringing the higher strings, balanced with a sure but inventive rhythmic sense. and when she cuts loose, especially in 'eleanor rigby', sherelle puts fordham and baker to shame, both in technique and in taste.>>>> Lama ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 21 Jun 2001 21:25:55 -0500 From: "Diane Evans" Subject: Birthdays NJC Hey Patrick L. Hope your day was fantastic! and Jeff C.! A happy f*@!king birthday to you, too! (In the best JMDL tradition!) Diane _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 21 Jun 2001 21:29:43 -0700 From: Michael Paz Subject: Re: Midwest "FEST" report (NJC) OK OK OK ! rub it in! it feels great! paz on 6/21/01 4:42 AM, FMYFL@aol.com at FMYFL@aol.com wrote: In a message dated 6/21/01 1:59:04 AM Eastern Daylight Time, jmichaelpaz@telocity.com writes: BTW last time I checked I thought I had about 275 paid people thru the door at the Wolf. That's right, I forgot about the Howling Wolf. MAYBE OF CD OF THE EVENT MIGHT JOG MY MEMORY!!!! (hee hee hee) Jimmy ------------------------------ End of JMDL Digest V2001 #264 ***************************** ------- Post messages to the list by clicking here: mailto:joni@smoe.org Unsubscribe by clicking here: mailto:joni-digest-request@smoe.org?body=unsubscribe ------- Siquomb, isn't she?