From: les@jmdl.com (JMDL Digest) To: joni-digest@smoe.org Subject: JMDL Digest V2001 #262 Reply-To: joni@smoe.org Sender: les@jmdl.com Errors-To: les@jmdl.com Precedence: bulk Unsubscribe: mailto:joni-digest-request@smoe.org?body=unsubscribe Archives: http://www.smoe.org/lists/joni Websites: http://www.jmdl.com http://www.jonimitchell.com JMDL Digest Thursday, June 21 2001 Volume 2001 : Number 262 The Official Joni Mitchell Homepage, created by Wally Breese, can be found at http://www.jonimitchell.com. It contains the latest news, a detailed bio, Original Interviews, essays, lyrics and much much more. The JMDL website can be found at http://www.jmdl.com and contains interviews, articles, the member gallery, archives, and much more. Information on the 4th "Annual" New England JoniFest: http://www.jmdl.com/jfne2001.cfm ========== TOPICS and authors in this Digest: -------- Today's Articles: June 20 [les@jmdl.com] Re: Midwest "FEST" report njc [FMYFL@aol.com] Re: Confessions, Arrogance, Humility, Scales and Feathers [SCJoniGuy@aol.] Re: Subject: Pissing and telling...dancing & telling ["Michael Paz" ] Joni-fests [Steve Dulson ] Re: Midwest "FEST" report njc [Catherine McKay ] Midwest gathering and all NJC ["Diane Evans" ] Don Juan - what would you cut? [Catherine McKay ] Re: Don Juan's edit log [colin ] Re: Midwest "FEST" report njc [FMYFL@aol.com] Re: Does this line ruin "L.I.S."? ["blonde in the bleachers" ] RE: Subject: Pissing and telling...dancing & telling ["Kate Bennett" ] Swedish [Steve Dulson ] Re: Subject: Pissing and telling...dancing & telling (SJC) [FMYFL@aol.com] Re: Don Juan - what would you cut? [colin ] Re: Does this line ruin "L.I.S."? [colin ] Re: David Wilcox in Atlanta! (NJC) [SCJoniGuy@aol.com] Re: Does this line ruin "L.I.S."? ["blonde in the bleachers" ] RE: the pissing on summer lawns SJC ["Donna J. Binkley" ] Re: Rufus and Teddy NJC [Jerry Notaro ] Re: Rufus and Teddy NJC [Alison E ] Re: Subject: Pissing and telling...dancing & telling (SJC) ["Michael Paz"] RE: Does this line ruin "L.I.S."? ["Donna J. Binkley" ] Re: Various: NJC [Alison E ] Re: Does this line ruin "L.I.S."? [colin ] I Can't Seem To Make It Socially [SMEBD@aol.com] Re: Rufus and Teddy NJC [dsk ] Re: I Can't Seem To Make It Socially [colin ] Re: I Can't Seem To Make It Socially [SMEBD@aol.com] RE: Subject: Pissing and telling...dancing & telling njc ["Wally Kairuz" ] RE: Rufus and Teddy NJC ["Wally Kairuz" ] RE: Rufus and Teddy NJC ["Wally Kairuz" ] Re: Rufus and Teddy NJC ["Kakki" ] Re: I Can't Seem To Make It Socially [Relayer211@aol.com] Re: Subject: Pissing and telling...dancing & telling (SJC) [Catherine McK] RE: Does this line ruin "L.I.S."? [Catherine McKay ] RE: Don Juan - what would you cut? ["Deb Messling" ] Re: Swedish [FMYFL@aol.com] RE: Various: NJC ["patrick leader" ] ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Wed, 20 Jun 2001 03:09:21 -0400 From: les@jmdl.com Subject: Today's Articles: June 20 On June 20 this article about Joni was published: 1998: "Back to the Garden" - Addicted To Noise website (News Item) http://www.jmdl.com/articles/docs/980620atn.cfm - ------------------------ The JMDL Article Database has 603 titles. http://www.jmdl.com/articles Contributions always welcome! ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 20 Jun 2001 05:39:54 EDT From: FMYFL@aol.com Subject: Re: Midwest "FEST" report njc In a message dated 6/20/01 2:51:21 AM Eastern Daylight Time, wallykai@fibertel.com.ar writes: > well, jimmy darling, if i were you, i'd start worrying. i see a pattern > here... > Dear Walter: I did not say in what sequence the JMDL fests/get-togethers/gatherings occurred. In fact this Labor Day fest will be the "largest" Joni-fest yet. (although it might be missing one Argentine who will be whisked away by the Topsfield mosquitoes). The only pattern I can see is "male pattern baldness". :~) Jimmy NP: Propecia Plains ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 20 Jun 2001 09:12:51 EDT From: SCJoniGuy@aol.com Subject: Re: Confessions, Arrogance, Humility, Scales and Feathers <> I agree with you on Tenth World, as a stand-alone track it doesn't bring much to the table for me either. But in the context of THE WORK, DJRD as a project, it's probably necessary... Jericho is another interesting animal altogether. Of course it first appeared on MOA, and she continued to play it live (along with For Love or Money for that matter which she played on her '76 tour). I guess she just felt that unlike Love/Money, it just belonged on a record as a studio work. Maybe she liked what her "new" band could bring to it. Funny that she didn't tweak the lyric at all. She also intended to play it on her S&L tour, I think...it shows up on the tour-opening show at OK City, but doesn't get done much if at all after that. So anyway Bob, are you saying that it should not have been released in studio form at all? Would it have fit better on Hejira? (I think maybe it fits better there). Or maybe you're thinking something else. In any regard, interesting discussion! Bob NP: Bonnie Raitt, "You Got To Be Ready For Love" ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 20 Jun 2001 09:39:29 -0500 From: "Michael Paz" Subject: Re: Subject: Pissing and telling...dancing & telling It wasn't like I was rolling her in my arms or anything. But yes we were on the stage left side of the stage (by Art Neville) and we danced like fools. I still I have a momento from the evening which is a sign for her dressing room that has her name written in glitter. The script almost looks like her actual signiture. How cool was that? It was really cool. Paz - ----- Original Message ----- From: Kate Bennett To: Cc: Jmpaz@Bellsouth. Net Sent: Tuesday, June 19, 2001 6:56 PM Subject: Subject: Pissing and telling...dancing & telling > Paz King of the Gumbo Crabs wrote, "Later on in the evening after her too > short of a > set, we danced to the music of the Neville Brothers and made fun of ..." > > When you said WE danced...di you mean you & joni danced...together? if so... > HOW COOL IS THAT?!!!!! > > ******************************************** > Kate Bennett > www.katebennett.com > sponsored by Polysonics www.polysonics.com > Discover the Indies at Taylor Guitars: > http://www.taylorguitars.com/artists/awp/indies/bennett.html > ******************************************** ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 20 Jun 2001 11:10:15 EDT From: BachelorNumero2@aol.com Subject: Don Juan's edit log My plans to edit Don Juan to a single album: Overture/Cotton Avenue Talk To Me Jericho Paprika Plains (with just a few slight edits, knocking off like 2 minutes) Otis and Marlena (reduce to a 2 minute instrumental that would flow right into--) The Tenth World (edited down to 3 minutes) Dreamland (edit a minute off of this) Don Juan's Reckless Daughter (edit 2 minutes off of this) The Silky Veils of Ardor *notice I am leaving off "Off Back Nightstreet"............I still feel that not only does it not sound like a "Joni" song, But I find it lyrically poor..........It sounds like it would fit a hell of a lot better on "Wild Things Run Fast" <------- Ok,. I'm running now.......... PHIL ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 20 Jun 2001 11:13:35 -0400 From: "Sally Pont" Subject: Fw: Confessions, Arrogance, Humility, Scales and Feathers - ----- Original Message ----- From: Sally Pont To: Sent: Wednesday, June 20, 2001 9:45 AM Subject: Re: Confessions, Arrogance, Humility, Scales and Feathers > Interesting that you would put Jericho on Hejira. It would certainly be a > contrast to Blue Motel Room in which love has clearly failed, though in > "cool" way, not in a tragic way, what with a final peace treaty being drawn > up in a "neutral cafe." Somehow, though, the tone of Jericho--so direct, so > hopeful-- doesn't jive with the complexities and ambivalences of Hejira. I > am at a loss to place Jericho, though. It has the "I-You" address of songs > from Blue, but it lacks the achiness. To me, it sounds like it's part of the > Court and Spark family: Joni is wise enough at that point to know that, at > best, she has to "try" to keep herself open up to the man she is in love > with, but she still believes that love is ALL. On Hejira, and Hissing, and > Don Juan she seems hell-bent on finding things to value over love. I think > it's too bad Jericho didn't come soon enough to be on Court and Spark. > So, anyway, Jericho is tough. Beautiful, but tough. > ----- Original Message ----- > From: > To: > Cc: > Sent: Wednesday, June 20, 2001 9:12 AM > Subject: Re: Confessions, Arrogance, Humility, Scales and Feathers > > > > < on the album, except perhaps by way of contrast to Silky Veils, and I am > totally underwhelmed by Tenth World>> > > > > I agree with you on Tenth World, as a stand-alone track it doesn't bring > much to the table for me either. But in the context of THE WORK, DJRD as a > project, it's probably necessary... > > > > Jericho is another interesting animal altogether. Of course it first > appeared on MOA, and she continued to play it live (along with For Love or > Money for that matter which she played on her '76 tour). I guess she just > felt that unlike Love/Money, it just belonged on a record as a studio work. > Maybe she liked what her "new" band could bring to it. Funny that she didn't > tweak the lyric at all. > > > > She also intended to play it on her S&L tour, I think...it shows up on the > tour-opening show at OK City, but doesn't get done much if at all after > that. > > > > So anyway Bob, are you saying that it should not have been released in > studio form at all? Would it have fit better on Hejira? (I think maybe it > fits better there). Or maybe you're thinking something else. > > > > In any regard, interesting discussion! > > > > Bob > > > > NP: Bonnie Raitt, "You Got To Be Ready For Love" ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 20 Jun 2001 16:11:16 +0100 (BST) From: pyramus@lineone.net Subject: re: A poem and a song: thought I'd share them (NJC) Good stuff Chris. I am always surprised that there is not more poetry on this list. Anybody got any more to share? pyramus ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 20 Jun 2001 09:50:36 -0500 From: "Michael Paz" Subject: Re: Pissing and telling (NNJC) That's ok Kakki. You were probably just protecting me as I don't usually divulge everything on the list. It was probably your subconsious just looking out for me. Can you believe it? I have been participating in discussions about what her songs mean. Hope you are not working too hard. Did you see the schedule for Kevin's band? They will be in your area later in the summer. - ----- Original Message ----- From: Kakki To: Michael Paz ; Sent: Tuesday, June 19, 2001 7:26 PM Subject: Re: Pissing and telling > Paz - thank you!! > > After I wrote the last TA post I had a vague remembrance that it was YOU who > had told me it was at Dan Tana's! Yes! And sorry to have forgotten the > source the first time. ;-) > > Kakki > > Paz wrote: > > > It's funny that this is one of the songs that I chose to talk to Joni > about > > the first time I met her. She was sitting at a table with our mutual > friend > > Lucy and I was introduced and asked to sit down. We talked for awhile and > I > > managed to blither out how much her lyrics and music do for me. I asked if > > alot of them came from things that actually happened and that's how the > moon > > and the street lamp bit came up. She threw her head back and laughed and > told > > me the story of going out drinking with a friend at Dan Tanas and that > image > > came from that reality. She also mentioned that the parking lot there is > on an > > incline so when she squated behind the car, the pee ran downhill so to > speak. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 20 Jun 2001 08:20:26 -0700 From: Steve Dulson Subject: Joni-fests Jimmy wrote: >I've attended a big Joni-fest at Ashara's, a smaller one at the Paz-fest, a >small gathering in LA with only 7 people from the list, and just a >get-togther with only two JMDLer's last year here in Ft. Myers. It really >doesn't matter the number of people. Wherever two or three are gathered in her name... :) - -- ######################################################## Steve Dulson Costa Mesa CA steve@psitech.com "The Tinker's Own" http://www.tinkersown.com "Southern California Dulcimer Heritage" http://www.scdh.org "The Living Tradition Concert Series" http://www.thelivingtradition.org/ ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 20 Jun 2001 11:33:42 -0400 (EDT) From: Catherine McKay Subject: Re: Midwest "FEST" report njc - --- FMYFL@aol.com wrote: > In a message dated 6/20/01 2:51:21 AM Eastern > Daylight Time, > wallykai@fibertel.com.ar writes: > > > > well, jimmy darling, if i were you, i'd start > worrying. i see a pattern > > here... > > > > Dear Walter: > I did not say in what sequence the JMDL > fests/get-togethers/gatherings > occurred. In fact this Labor Day fest will be the > "largest" Joni-fest yet. > (although it might be missing one Argentine who will > be whisked away by the > Topsfield mosquitoes). The only pattern I can see > is "male pattern > baldness". :~) > Jimmy > NP: Propecia Plains When you start getting into the negative integers, let me know. That would be interesting. Get your free @yahoo.ca address at http://mail.yahoo.ca ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 20 Jun 2001 11:36:27 -0500 From: "Diane Evans" Subject: Midwest gathering and all NJC Greetings, Listers! Just have to put my two cents in. The midwest gathering in Milwaukee was a treat! Kerry and Ross were delightful hosts for an after-gathering gathering, making Mary and myself at home in their beautiful home. Dinner was a hoot at a most unusual restaurant, replete with a feisty waitress, a crusty restaurant owner, and a parade of docking boats. Steve's renditions of Joni music were awsome! What a great voice! Mary rounded out our "core" group, and we laughed all the way through our background, ur, ummm, "crooning." Yeah, okay. *My* voice is better suited to the privacy of the shower.;-) I think these gatherings are well worth the effort to attend. What a wonderful opportunity to meet with each other in a more intimate setting than the list! Conversations are lively and stimulating. It's also great fun to be welcomed to sing along with the performer. Every lister I've been lucky enough to meet has enriched my life with their outlooks and wisdom. Not to mention, you're all such a fine-looking bunch of humans! (LOL) I believe that Joni isn't the common thread that links each of us. Rather, she's the beginning thread. Diane, who's looking forward to the Chicago JoniFest! _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 20 Jun 2001 12:43:28 -0400 (EDT) From: Catherine McKay Subject: Don Juan - what would you cut? i think I'd cut Jericho and Off Night Backstreet. To me they don't belong on this album. I know I heard Joni sing Jericho at a concert, but don't remember which. Not too many choices - I've only seen her twice; once at Massey Hall (Toronto) between Blue and FTR (whenever that was); again on the WTRF tour (Toronto again), so it must have been WTRF. I knew I had heard it before and was wondering when she would put it on an album, but I didn't have DJRD or MOA at the time, so I didn't realize it was on not one, but two. It was only recently I realized I had in fact heard it before because my sister had MOA so I had heard it at her place. I like the song, but somehow, to me, it doesn't fit on DJRD. Off Night Backstreet just doesn't do much for me. I don't care for it as a song and somehow, again, it just doesn't fit. I do like the 10th world - I agree it can be a bit on the long side, but that kind of music kind of has to be. It's trancy kind of music, dancin' fool music without the goofy lyrics. I agree with whoever said it makes a good segue between Otis and Marlene and Dreamland. With Otis and Marlene, you start out in a pretty banal situation - a couple of tourists in Florida, but you're already in the tropics; with 10th world, you're not just in the tropics, you are IN THE TROPICS. It's like Voodoo dancing or something, very dreamlike and trancy - lots of chanting and repetition and those jungle drums. Then you're into Dreamland which takes you back out of the jungle, slowly out of the dream. Like Joni, you're not really ready to get out altogether, but you've got to wake up to reality - winter, the ice and cold and the 6-foot drifts on Myrtle's lawn and so on. I don't think you should mess with that; otherwise, you're likely to go into shock. ;) Sometimes I'm tempted to skip over the 10th world because it's so long, but necessarily so. If you just heard "Baila mi rumba" (sp?) a couple of times, it wouldn't work - it needs to be chanted like that. I get drawn into it, waiting for a certain drum pattern. I suppose you could cut some of Paprika Plains, but I hear this one as a symphony, and you can't cut one of the movements without sacrificing something. "Talk to me" is so exuberant - she just sounds so excited and happy. Just like a yacky chick. What can I say about "Cotton Avenue"? I wish it were longer! And "The silky veils of ardour" - beautiful. DJRD really is one of my favourites. It may be flawed, in some people's view, but I love Joni's singing voice on this one. It's girlish, yet mature; sexy, jubilant, lots of range vocally and emotionally. Get your free @yahoo.ca address at http://mail.yahoo.ca ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 20 Jun 2001 17:58:20 +0100 From: colin Subject: Re: Don Juan's edit log I'd cut DJRD down to: Talk to Me Tenth World(ext remix) Dreamland (ext remix) bw colin ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 20 Jun 2001 13:09:05 EDT From: FMYFL@aol.com Subject: Re: Midwest "FEST" report njc In a message dated 6/20/01 11:34:16 AM Eastern Daylight Time, anima_rising@yahoo.ca writes: << When you start getting into the negative integers, let me know. That would be interesting. >> That would be at the Jim Nabors fest held in Sylacauga, Alabama each year. :~) Jimmy ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 20 Jun 2001 13:17:52 -0400 From: "blonde in the bleachers" Subject: Re: Does this line ruin "L.I.S."? "I can't seem to make it with you socially" is probably one of my favorite lines on FTR. It is honest and heartbreaking, and describes to a tee why plenty of relationships don't work. >From: Relayer211@aol.com >Reply-To: Relayer211@aol.com >To: Joni@smoe.org >Subject: Does this line ruin "L.I.S."? >Date: Tue, 19 Jun 2001 00:44:21 EDT > > According to the author of a book about Dylan the line "I can't seem to >make it with you socially" ruins the otherwise fine song,"Lesson in >survival".Does anyone agree? - ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 20 Jun 2001 10:25:20 -0700 (PDT) From: Don Rowe Subject: Re: Don Juan's edit log About the only thing I'd consider doing is dropping 10th World & substituting the "Hissing Demos" version of Dreamland (which is still my favorite version of that number EVER). So it'd run something like this: 1. Overture/Cotton Avenue 2. Talk to Me 3:40 3. Jericho 3:25 4. Paprika Plains 16:19 5. Otis and Marlena 4:05 6. Dreamland ("Hissing Demos" version substituted) 7. Don Juan's Reckless Daughter 6:40 8. Off Night Backstreet 3:22 9. Silky Veils of Ardor 4:02 Don Rowe ===== Visit me anytime at http://www.mp3.com/donrowe Get personalized email addresses from Yahoo! Mail http://personal.mail.yahoo.com/ ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 20 Jun 2001 10:00:03 -0700 From: "Kate Bennett" Subject: RE: Subject: Pissing and telling...dancing & telling Paz wrote "It wasn't like I was rolling her in my arms or anything. But yes...we danced like fools" LOL, very very tres mucho bueno grande coolio!!!! ...maybe she has written you into one of her songs about that evening!!!!! i bet she has... ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 20 Jun 2001 17:31:36 From: "Steve Harper" Subject: David Wilcox in Atlanta! (NJC) Hello, everyone! Ken and I went to see David Wilcox last Friday evening. I don't remember reading much discussion on the list before about this wonderful singer/songwriter/guitarist extraordinaire, so I will record my enthusiasm for him (and his eight albums) now for all to see. David played a great set at the Variety Playhouse in Little Five Points, Atlanta, GA, with a nice mix of tunes going back to his second album and representing selections from most of his albums to date. I was very pleased that he picked "Chet Baker's Unsung Swan Song" to revisit; it was the highlight of the night musically for me. (kd lang covered this one on "Drag.") A beautiful, thoughtful, quiet song. Disturbing if you consider it is about what was most likely a suicide by window jumping, but a moving meditation on regret, nevertheless. David always plays a mix of lighter tunes with the "serious" ones. He played a Chuck Brodsky song called "Blow 'Em Away," which is about, well, blowing away the unfortunate souls who cross your path on the highway. (David does voice of Gandhi, shaking fist at sky: "I have respect for all forms of life! EXCEPT YOU!) Ken and I were both impressed by David's imitative skills. In addition to Gandhi, he embodied a rather self-centered Southern-style preacher (whose story he told in the song "God is All about ME), a redneck, and a bemused woman on a date (What? Don't you want to be the supporting actor in the movie of my life?) Talk about down to earth! David seems the epitome of approachability onstage. At one point, an audience member requested what must be an obscure song of his about one of the world wars, and David went into a story about the song, but then said he would do another one that he wanted to play, explaining that the death portion of the show was over and we were now on the upswing of the evening. This was followed shortly after by the sounds of rain pelting the roof of the theater. So David played one of his new songs in honor of the rain. (Which sounded really cool in this old theater.) The rain and the song. He even schooled us (sort of) in the ways of his alternate tunings, admitting that when performers seem to be searching for something when tuning, they really are...searching to remember how to tune up for the next song. ("The last one was DADGAD. So this one must be in...") But you could say he finally brought us around to the tonic chord for the evening with a wonderful, solid performance. So, in summary, buy his "East Asheville Hardware" CD first, if you haven't, then all seven of the others. You won't be sorry. P.S. The new Mary Chapin Carpenter CD is wonderful... so until next TIME, enjoy plenty of SEX, with LOVE, Steve (that's the name of her album...time, sex, love...) _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 20 Jun 2001 11:11:29 -0700 From: Steve Dulson Subject: Swedish Here ya go - I think I get the gist of it.... *When Joni Mitchell drinks too much "Tequila Anaconda" she likes to talk about "Bergmans Nordic Blues", if you were to believe the song "Talk to me" from 1977, and I like the fact that it was the currently, with restored reputation but yet a B-film producer, Roger Corman, who brought in a number of Bergman movies to the States during the 60?s and the 70?s. Why not also mention Wes Craven, who?s terribly unpleasant "Last House on the Left", wasn?t anything else but a new recording of Jungfrukallan (The Virgin?s spring), which ironically enough was totally prohibited in Sweden.* - -- ######################################################## Steve Dulson Costa Mesa CA steve@psitech.com "The Tinker's Own" http://www.tinkersown.com "Southern California Dulcimer Heritage" http://www.scdh.org "The Living Tradition Concert Series" http://www.thelivingtradition.org/ ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 20 Jun 2001 14:19:44 EDT From: FMYFL@aol.com Subject: Re: Subject: Pissing and telling...dancing & telling (SJC) << Paz wrote "It wasn't like I was rolling her in my arms or anything. But yes...we danced like fools" and Kate wrote: LOL, very very tres mucho bueno grande coolio!!!! ...maybe she has written you into one of her songs about that evening!!!!! i bet she has... >> That's where Joni came up with the lyrics : "Kiss my ass!" I said and I threw my drink..........from "Lead Balloon" :~) ......just kidding Mikey, it's probably more like .....honey you turn me on, I'm a radio you butch boy! Jimmy ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 20 Jun 2001 19:26:35 +0100 From: colin Subject: Re: Don Juan - what would you cut? Catherine McKay wrote: > i think I'd cut Jericho and Off Night Backstreet. To > me they don't belong on this album. I know I heard > Joni sing Jericho at a concert, the first I heard it was on MOA. bw colin ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 20 Jun 2001 19:28:45 +0100 From: colin Subject: Re: Does this line ruin "L.I.S."? blonde in the bleachers wrote: > "I can't seem to make it with you socially" is probably one of my > favorite lines on FTR. It is honest and heartbreaking, and describes to > a tee why plenty of relationships don't work. > okay, what does that line mean? I haven't a clue. Are we talking different social classes here? Different entertainment tastes? Can't stand the partner's friends? bw colin ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 20 Jun 2001 14:37:41 EDT From: SCJoniGuy@aol.com Subject: Re: David Wilcox in Atlanta! (NJC) <> Thanks for the review, Steve...I'm sure he'll play the Handlebar here, so I'll keep my eyes peeled. I picked up his "What You Whispered" last year and it was one of my faves. What a smooth, soothing voice he has! Bob NP: Eddi Reader, "Patience of Angels" ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 20 Jun 2001 14:42:55 -0400 From: "blonde in the bleachers" Subject: Re: Does this line ruin "L.I.S."? It would seem that his friends don't like her "Maybe its paranoia,maybe its sensitivity, your friends protect you, scrutinize me, I get so damn timid, not at all the spirit that's inside of me, oh baby I can't seem to make it with you socially" >From: colin >To: blonde in the bleachers >CC: Relayer211@aol.com, Joni@smoe.org >Subject: Re: Does this line ruin "L.I.S."? >Date: Wed, 20 Jun 2001 19:28:45 +0100 > > > >blonde in the bleachers wrote: > > > "I can't seem to make it with you socially" is probably one of my > > favorite lines on FTR. It is honest and heartbreaking, and describes to > > a tee why plenty of relationships don't work. > > > >okay, what does that line mean? I haven't a clue. Are we talking different >social classes here? Different entertainment tastes? Can't stand the >partner's friends? >bw >colin > - ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 20 Jun 2001 14:48:39 EDT From: SCJoniGuy@aol.com Subject: Re: Does this line ruin "L.I.S."? <> I think she's just talking about her social life with him and HIS friends...to put it in context: "Your friends protect you Scrutinize me I get so damn timid Not at all the spirit That's inside of me Oh baby I can't seem to make it With you socially " Whatever makes their relationship work between the two of them doesn't translate when they are in public (or removed from the world in which they feel comfortable). That's my take on it anyway; I know from my own experience that I've dated women that didn't necessarily "fit" into the other spheres of my life at the time...obviously no one's fault, just the way things are sometime on the "social" level. Whether it's a class difference, age, a socioeconomic one, racial, or whatever. Bob NP: Eddie Reader, "Scarecrow" ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 20 Jun 2001 11:39:48 -0700 From: "Kate Bennett" Subject: RE: Subject: Pissing and telling...dancing & telling (SJC) or perhaps it was this timeless jmdl favorite...its pretty transparent actually... No, you couldn't call Mickey a babe in the woods... ...Anytime I want I can make you my dancin'-- My dancin' clown!" You're my dancin' clown Dancin' dancin' My dancin' clown Dancin' You're my dancin' clown Dancin' dancin' dancin' My dancin' clown... ...Cherchez la femme Whenever love comes around Someone's a dancin' clown Cherchez la femme Whenever hearts start to pound Someone's a dancin' clown << Paz wrote "It wasn't like I was rolling her in my arms or anything. But yes...we danced like fools" and Kate wrote: LOL, very very tres mucho bueno grande coolio!!!! ...maybe she has written you into one of her songs about that evening!!!!! i bet she has... >> and Jimmy addedd: That's where Joni came up with the lyrics : "Kiss my ass!" I said and I threw my drink..........from "Lead Balloon" :~) ......just kidding Mikey, it's probably more like .....honey you turn me on, I'm a radio you butch boy! ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 20 Jun 2001 12:08:39 -0700 (PDT) From: Alison E Subject: Re: Rufus and Teddy NJC - --- Blair Fraipont wrote: > About three weeks ago, I had the pleasure > to see Rufus Wainright > in concert. > He also did a cover of > his father's song, "ONe man guy" with Teddy Thompson i'm not a big fan of rufus (i think he's extremely overrated and whiney, imho), but i LOVE teddy thompson. as debra s. can attest... we went to see richard thompson as she has described before and his son joined him onstage for a couple of numbers and i really considered rushing the stage as though i were a fourteen year old at an n'sync concert. his son is really talented, having been blessed with a fantastic voice and he's completely hot to boot! > The musicianship was excellent and their > was an excellent sense of > friendship between those onstage. they have been friends since childhood apparently, due to the friendships between loudon wainright & anna mcgarrigle and richard and linda thompson. clearly the thompsons produced the superior offspring... ;-) > Afterwards, my > friends and I went to the > back door (hoping to meet Rufus). Teddy was outside > and I embarrassed > myself with a question, "Do you have a boyfriend." > He said no, and that he > wasn't gay sort of politely and with a grin. thank god, blair, i can continue the fantasy! you still have rufus, after all. alison e. in nyc Get personalized email addresses from Yahoo! Mail http://personal.mail.yahoo.com/ ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 20 Jun 2001 14:12:46 -0500 From: "Donna J. Binkley" Subject: RE: the pissing on summer lawns SJC "See the blue pools in the squinting sun, see them pissing on summer lawns" "In France they piss on Main Street, Amour Mama, not cheap display!" Sorry for the blasphemy folks but i just couldn't help it, (guess it's been a long day already)...db - -----Original Message----- From: les@jmdl.com [mailto:les@jmdl.com]On Behalf Of mags Sent: Tuesday, June 19, 2001 4:29 PM To: joni@smoe.org Subject: the pissing on summer lawns SJC Forgive me for sounding crass however there is no other way to say this... "To be pissed" is a common term in Canuckian for being drunk . Tell me what you think...could Joni have been pissed "ON" tequila before she pissed "A" Tequila Anaconda the full length of the parking lot? Mags the Canuckian, not trying to be a smart @ss.... this topic was brought up in a conversation after work with Brei. ;-)) np: Yola by Eleanor McEvoy is so very good. - -- - --------------------------------------------------------------------- _~O / /\_, ___/\ /_ - ----------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 20 Jun 2001 22:26:53 -0700 From: "Ian Scott" Subject: Re: the pissing on summer lawns SJC Donna, The second one (In France) is brilliant. It's not only funny, but also conveys a lot of meaning. lol :)))) Ian Donna wrote: - --- >"See the blue pools in the squinting sun, see them pissing on summer lawns" > >"In France they piss on Main Street, Amour Mama, not cheap display!" > >Sorry for the blasphemy folks but i just couldn't help it, (guess it's been >a long day already)...db ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 20 Jun 2001 15:23:24 -0400 From: Jerry Notaro Subject: Re: Rufus and Teddy NJC Alison E wrote: > i'm not a big fan of rufus (i think he's extremely > overrated and whiney, imho), Allison, I may never speak to you again. Oh, wait. We've never met. Never mind. Jerry, a HUGE Rufus Wainwright fan ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 20 Jun 2001 12:31:24 -0700 (PDT) From: Alison E Subject: Re: Rufus and Teddy NJC AHHHHHHHH! i guess i'm really on your shite list now, huh? actually, i bought his first album just based on the "you will believe in love" song, which i really like. just the rest of it was, well, weak...if i remember correctly. i'm sorry! please, oh, please, forgive me! alison e. in nyc - --- Jerry Notaro wrote: > Alison E wrote:> > > i'm not a big fan of rufus (i think he's extremely > > overrated and whiney, imho), > > Allison, > > I may never speak to you again. Oh, wait. We've > never met. Never mind. > > Jerry, a HUGE Rufus Wainwright fan Get personalized email addresses from Yahoo! Mail http://personal.mail.yahoo.com/ ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 20 Jun 2001 14:15:26 -0500 From: "Michael Paz" Subject: Re: Subject: Pissing and telling...dancing & telling (SJC) Freda was there (also dancing) so it was pretty innocent, but a guy can dream can't he? Paz - ----- Original Message ----- From: To: ; ; Sent: Wednesday, June 20, 2001 1:19 PM Subject: Re: Subject: Pissing and telling...dancing & telling (SJC) > > << Paz wrote "It wasn't like I was rolling her in my arms or anything. But > yes...we danced like fools" > > and Kate wrote: > > LOL, very very tres mucho bueno grande coolio!!!! ...maybe she has written > you into one of her songs about that evening!!!!! i bet she has... > >> > > That's where Joni came up with the lyrics : "Kiss my ass!" I said > and I threw my drink..........from "Lead Balloon" :~) > > ......just kidding Mikey, it's probably more like .....honey you turn me on, > I'm a radio you butch boy! > > Jimmy ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 20 Jun 2001 14:55:05 -0500 From: "Donna J. Binkley" Subject: RE: Does this line ruin "L.I.S."? I totally agree with Bob on this translation, that's how i've always thought of it too. Also, some people are just socially inept (my ex for example and it IS his fault). db - -----Original Message----- From: les@jmdl.com [mailto:les@jmdl.com]On Behalf Of SCJoniGuy@aol.com Sent: Wednesday, June 20, 2001 1:49 PM To: colin@tantra-apso.com; blondeinthebleachers@hotmail.com Cc: relayer211@aol.com; joni@smoe.org Subject: Re: Does this line ruin "L.I.S."? <> I think she's just talking about her social life with him and HIS friends...to put it in context: "Your friends protect you Scrutinize me I get so damn timid Not at all the spirit That's inside of me Oh baby I can't seem to make it With you socially " Whatever makes their relationship work between the two of them doesn't translate when they are in public (or removed from the world in which they feel comfortable). That's my take on it anyway; I know from my own experience that I've dated women that didn't necessarily "fit" into the other spheres of my life at the time...obviously no one's fault, just the way things are sometime on the "social" level. Whether it's a class difference, age, a socioeconomic one, racial, or whatever. Bob NP: Eddie Reader, "Scarecrow" ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 20 Jun 2001 23:40:13 -0700 From: "Ian Scott" Subject: Re: Does this line ruin "L.I.S."? Donna, Your wit is *sparkling* today. I love the second line again! lol Ian Donna wrote: >I totally agree with Bob on this translation, that's how i've always thought >of it too. Also, some people are just socially inept (my ex for example and >it IS his fault). db ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 20 Jun 2001 13:42:24 -0700 (PDT) From: Alison E Subject: Re: Various: NJC - --- "Pitassi, Mary" wrote: > Am leaving soon for the much-anticipated Midwest > Mini-fest > Jody from Chicago will > not be joining us as planned, due to illness. We > wish her a speedy > recovery. And we'll try to check in soon! it sounds like you all had fun, and i hope jody is ok. are you ok, jody? > On another topic: a warm HAPPY BIRTHDAY to Patrick > Leader (Patrick, are you > still out there??). happy belated birthday, patrick! i just realized i didn't send you birthday wishes. so, here they are, a few days late and many dollars short. i hope you had a lovely celebration. alison e. in nyc Get personalized email addresses from Yahoo! Mail http://personal.mail.yahoo.com/ ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 20 Jun 2001 22:35:12 +0100 From: colin Subject: Re: Does this line ruin "L.I.S."? blonde in the bleachers wrote: > It would seem that his friends don't like her and this is a good reason to end a relationship? Is Joni being shallow here? Or does he treat her differently because his friends don't like her? Has he not told his friends'well fuck you, I like her'? I don't think social class, race, friends, careers, family and all the other excuses are good enough reasons to end a relationship. Now if two people don't get on, can;t communicate, can't share, they are good reasons for a relationship to end. Ending because of other people is rather wimpy. In two weeks time it is our 20th anniversary and we are having a mini Joni gettogether to celebrate it. John and I come from completely different social backgrounds, have comnpletely different tastes in music, arts ect, different attitudes to life, very different temperaments. we have had no family to back our union, no societal backing, no legal backing, no spiritual backing. In fact we have had much pressure opposing our union. However, we committed to eachother at the get go, worked thru our idfferences and let our love of eachother see us thru the rough times(and there have been rough times-you try living with a bipolar abuse survivor!). Above all we accept eachother as we are and don't try and change eachother. John gets what he wants and needs from me and me from him. We each have different sets of friends that supply our other needs. The two sets don't mix and have never met. Our careers compliment eachother-he a high flying professional and me a knitwear designer cum house queen. He got what he wated out of life in terms of career and I got what I wanted-love and stability. Career never interested me. bw colin > > > "Maybe its paranoia,maybe its sensitivity, your friends protect you, > scrutinize me, I get so damn timid, not at all the spirit that's inside > of me, oh baby I can't seem to make it with you socially" ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 20 Jun 2001 17:39:08 EDT From: SMEBD@aol.com Subject: I Can't Seem To Make It Socially I was thinking more about LIS and the line "I can't seem to make it with you socially" and recalled the line "He makes friends easy, he's not like me, I watch for judgment anxiously" from Car On The Hill and how these two lines express, IMHO, a very similar sentiment. It seems to me that Joni is merely acknowledging the differences between herself and her lover. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 20 Jun 2001 18:46:34 -0400 From: dsk Subject: Re: Rufus and Teddy NJC Alison E wrote: > i'm not a big fan of rufus (i think he's extremely > overrated and whiney, imho), but i LOVE teddy > thompson. as debra s. can attest... 'tis true. The heat his appearance caused was impressive. There was a moment when I thought Alison was going to leap right off the balcony and onto the Teddy-loaded stage, but after some hoots, hollers and whistles, I was actually able to hear the songs, and Alison managed to stay in her seat, although she did seem a little fidgety. > we went to see > richard thompson as she has described before and his > son joined him onstage for a couple of numbers and i > really considered rushing the stage as though i were a > fourteen year old at an n'sync concert. his son is > really talented, having been blessed with a fantastic > voice and he's completely hot to boot! He's a cutie, that's for sure. I, of course, have the hots for his smiling, wrinkled, balding and very funny old man. There's something about all that intelligence and experience and defined person-ness that... hmmmm. Debra Shea ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 20 Jun 2001 23:50:36 +0100 From: colin Subject: Re: I Can't Seem To Make It Socially > It seems to me that Joni is merely > acknowledging the differences between herself and her lover. both loines seem to suggest a shaky self esteem too. I can't iamgine feeling good about oneself and awaiting the judgement of others anxiously not worrying what someone esles' friends think of one. - -- bw colin BRO GC, 950i 940,864, 260, 890,Silver 830 and 270, Passap 6000 Duo80 colin@tantra-apso.com http://www.tantra-apso.com ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 20 Jun 2001 19:14:47 EDT From: SMEBD@aol.com Subject: Re: I Can't Seem To Make It Socially In a message dated 6/20/01 6:45:34 PM Eastern Daylight Time, colin@tantra-apso.com writes: > I agree. I think in many ways Joni is a very vulnerable person. This comes thru in many of her lyrics. This aspect of her personality is one of the things that I was most able to identify with when I first started listening to her music. She had the ability to express what I was feeling. Don't get me wrong, I do think that she is a very strong woman--she is a survivor--but I feel that underneath all of the bravado, there is a very fragile and beautiful soul. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 20 Jun 2001 20:50:51 -0300 From: "Wally Kairuz" Subject: RE: Subject: Pissing and telling...dancing & telling njc paz, this is like the story of the millennium man!!! how come you're so humble about it? you egomaniac aries you????? anyways, i loved this story and i am frigging green!!!!!!!!! wallyfacio - -----Mensaje original----- De: owner-joni@jmdl.com [mailto:owner-joni@jmdl.com]En nombre de Michael Paz Enviado el: Miircoles, 20 de Junio de 2001 11:39 a.m. Para: Kate Bennett; joni@smoe.org Asunto: Re: Subject: Pissing and telling...dancing & telling It wasn't like I was rolling her in my arms or anything. But yes we were on the stage left side of the stage (by Art Neville) and we danced like fools. I still I have a momento from the evening which is a sign for her dressing room that has her name written in glitter. The script almost looks like her actual signiture. How cool was that? It was really cool. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 20 Jun 2001 21:26:03 -0300 From: "Wally Kairuz" Subject: RE: Rufus and Teddy NJC ok, here i go! although i would hate to incur jerry's hatred, i must confess that i detested everything on goofus whine [right!]'s album. i had read that he was heavily influenced by the music of giuseppe verdi [i swear to god that that was in one of the reviews!!! where the hell do reviewers get their ideas?????] and that his voice was sublime, so maybe i was ''slightly'' biased when i heard the cd for the 1st time. stephen epstein played rufus again in vancouver to help me overcome my rufus-phobia but to no avail [partly because stephen's car cd player seldom worked]. i played his cd again when i came back from canada to give rufus one more chance. however, no matter what i do i seem to be unable to appreciate what it is that people find in his music and interpretations. maybe you have to like twinks and i like bears? wallyK, i really tried ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 20 Jun 2001 21:28:18 -0300 From: "Wally Kairuz" Subject: RE: Rufus and Teddy NJC oh shea! how i DO emphatically agree with you on this!!!!!! wallyK - -----Mensaje original----- De: owner-joni@jmdl.com [mailto:owner-joni@jmdl.com]En nombre de dsk Enviado el: Miircoles, 20 de Junio de 2001 07:47 p.m. Para: Alison E CC: joni@smoe.org Asunto: Re: Rufus and Teddy NJC I, of course, have the hots for his smiling, wrinkled, balding and very funny old man. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 20 Jun 2001 17:23:51 -0700 From: "Kakki" Subject: Re: Rufus and Teddy NJC Richard or Teddy.....I have the hots for both of them. While driving to a concert last year, I listened to an in-studio they did here on a local station and did not want to leave the car. Major swoon. Richard, Teddy (and also Rufus) seem to play L.A. on a fairly regular basis but I have not had the chance to see them. I will probably need oxygen and someone to hold me up when I do. Kakki ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 20 Jun 2001 21:17:09 EDT From: Relayer211@aol.com Subject: Re: I Can't Seem To Make It Socially In a message dated 6/20/01 7:31:11 PM Eastern Daylight Time, SMEBD@aol.com writes: << there is a very fragile and beautiful soul. >> That describes me too! ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 20 Jun 2001 21:29:52 -0400 (EDT) From: Catherine McKay Subject: Re: Subject: Pissing and telling...dancing & telling (SJC) - --- Michael Paz wrote: > Freda was there (also dancing) so it was pretty > innocent, but a guy can > dream can't he? > > Paz Yeah, but who was she dancing WITH? Get your free @yahoo.ca address at http://mail.yahoo.ca ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 20 Jun 2001 21:35:59 -0400 (EDT) From: Catherine McKay Subject: RE: Does this line ruin "L.I.S."? - --- "Donna J. Binkley" wrote: > I totally agree with Bob on this translation, that's > how i've always thought > of it too. Also, some people are just socially > inept (my ex for example and > it IS his fault). db > Honey, it's ALWAYS HIS fault! Get your free @yahoo.ca address at http://mail.yahoo.ca ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 20 Jun 2001 18:01:19 -0700 From: "Kakki" Subject: Re: Don Juan - what would you cut? Catherine wrote: > i think I'd cut Jericho and Off Night Backstreet. To > me they don't belong on this album. Off Night Backstreet > just doesn't do much for me. I don't care for it as a > song and somehow, again, it just doesn't fit. Some on the list have discussed that the "Don Juan" in the album title refers to the Carlos Castandea character, Don Juan Matus, but I've always thought that her reference is to the legendary 17th Century Don Juan, the "reckless libertine." In the song Don Juan's Reckless Daughter, Joni seems to be identifying with him, but in the song Off Night Backstreet, she expresses the painful downside of involvement with a "Don Juan" prototype. I think the song fits. Kakki ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 20 Jun 2001 22:38:07 -0400 From: "Deb Messling" Subject: RE: Don Juan - what would you cut? I think that Joni is quite deliberately invoking both characters. The references to the Castaneda books are clear (one small example: the line "oh say can you *see*" with *see* printed in italics on the liner notes: that's a Castaneda reference). But she would of course be aware that large portions of her audience would think immediately of the other Don Juan. When she calls herself Don Juan's reckless daughter, she's saying she's the heir of the spiritual teacher AND the libertine. > -----Original Message----- > Some on the list have discussed that the "Don Juan" in the album title > refers to the Carlos Castandea character, Don Juan Matus, but I've always > thought that her reference is to the legendary 17th Century Don Juan, the > "reckless libertine." ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 20 Jun 2001 23:02:02 EDT From: FMYFL@aol.com Subject: Re: Swedish In a message dated 6/20/01 2:26:07 PM Eastern Daylight Time, steve@psitech.com writes: > Here ya go - I think I get the gist of it.... > > *When Joni Mitchell drinks too much "Tequila Anaconda" she likes to talk > about "Bergmans Nordic Blues", if you were to believe the song "Talk to me" > from 1977, and I like the fact that it was the currently, with restored > reputation but yet a B-film producer, Roger Corman, who brought in a number > of Bergman movies to the States during the 60?s and the 70?s. Why not also > mention Wes Craven, who?s terribly unpleasant "Last House on the Left", > wasn?t anything else but a new recording of Jungfrukallan (The Virgin?s > spring), which ironically enough was totally prohibited in Sweden.* > > Thanks so much for the translation Steve. The only word I could understand was "Joni Mitchell" !!! Jimmy ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 21 Jun 2001 00:29:03 -0400 From: "patrick leader" Subject: RE: Various: NJC hi folks: yikes, thanks all for the birthday messages folks. i'm sorry it's taken me so long to respond. it was a great weekend, though i too thought about kenny grant. i've been so crazed, with yet another job change and more, that i've become insufferably rude and never contribute to the list. i apologize. we had a smaller joni gathering a couple of weeks after lahmfest, just 5 of us out for dinner and to see 'eli's coming', the recent review of laura nyro songs. jerry notaro in town was the occasion (as it always should be). great company, and while the nyro show wasn't perfect, it did showcase some of the most incredible singing i've heard in a while. judy kuhn, who's a pretty successful broadway type already, was fantastic and featured the most, but i lost it for a very pretty young black singer who seems to have every possible corner of a great voice: a growl like etta james with legit high notes like audra mcdonald. sounding nothing like either, though. just a great voice. i think her name is anika noni rose (the program is a little unclear). speaking of great voices, i've also been wanting to add my voice to the sherelle fan club. i've heard and loved her singing in pittsburgh at a jonifest and on the 'tape of you' project, but these demos are on another level, vocally. sherelle, i want you to make it because you're a sweet and talented person, but more selfishly i want the damn cd. i am obsessed with the three vocals you've put down here. they are so beautiful. sherelle's voice has something of anita baker, and julia fordham, two very different musicians. i'm not a musician so it's hard for me to describe. julia has an amazing range, yet her voice sounds deep, even when she sings high notes. it's very unusual, kind of buzzy, and beautiful. you always feel that your whole ear is asked to listen... anita's voice doesn't _sound_ as good tone in tone and she rightly hangs out in a lower and narrower range, but she's much more interesting than fordham rhythmically. sherelle seems to have the best of both: a gorgeous rich tone like a low cello string that's ringing the higher strings, balanced with a sure but inventive rhythmic sense. and when she cuts loose, especially in 'eleanor rigby', sherelle puts fordham and baker to shame, both in technique and in taste. ok, sounding like a reviewer, which i didn't mean to do. i just wanted to say, i like it. please give us more. patrick np - sherelle smith - do what you love ------------------------------ End of JMDL Digest V2001 #262 ***************************** ------- Post messages to the list by clicking here: mailto:joni@smoe.org Unsubscribe by clicking here: mailto:joni-digest-request@smoe.org?body=unsubscribe ------- Siquomb, isn't she?