From: les@jmdl.com (JMDL Digest) To: joni-digest@smoe.org Subject: JMDL Digest V2001 #259 Reply-To: joni@smoe.org Sender: les@jmdl.com Errors-To: les@jmdl.com Precedence: bulk Unsubscribe: mailto:joni-digest-request@smoe.org?body=unsubscribe Archives: http://www.smoe.org/lists/joni Websites: http://www.jmdl.com http://www.jonimitchell.com JMDL Digest Tuesday, June 19 2001 Volume 2001 : Number 259 The Official Joni Mitchell Homepage, created by Wally Breese, can be found at http://www.jonimitchell.com. It contains the latest news, a detailed bio, Original Interviews, essays, lyrics and much much more. The JMDL website can be found at http://www.jmdl.com and contains interviews, articles, the member gallery, archives, and much more. Information on the 4th "Annual" New England JoniFest: http://www.jmdl.com/jfne2001.cfm ========== TOPICS and authors in this Digest: -------- Today's Articles: June 18 [les@jmdl.com] Today in Joni History: June 18 [les@jmdl.com] Re:Anaconda ["Jim L'Hommedieu" ] Re: Anaconda ["Jim L'Hommedieu" ] Re:SJC Isle of Wight Festival '69 or '70? ["Ian Scott" ] re: Joni influences Bob ["c Karma" ] RE: Anaconda ["Donna J. Binkley" ] RE: Anaconda [SCJoniGuy@aol.com] Re: SJC Isle of Wight Festival '69 or '70? ["Mark or Travis" ] Re: SJC Isle of Wight Festival '69 or '70? ["Kakki" ] RE: Song Interpretations ["Wally Kairuz" ] Re: Goin Indie njc [Randy Remote ] Re: Joni influences Bob [Randy Remote ] Re: Song Interpretations [SCJoniGuy@aol.com] I have some news on Joni's Tribute Album [RoseMJoy@aol.com] Re: I have some news on Joni's Tribute Album ["Suze Cameron" ] NJC Re: I have some news on Joni's Tribute Album [SCJoniGuy@aol.com] Wild Things gets panned? or not? [BachelorNumero2@aol.com] Re: Wild Things gets panned? or not? [Jason Maloney ] Wild Things Gets Panned, or not? [CHRIS TREACY ] Re: Joni influences Bob [dsk ] Re: Wild Things gets panned? or not? [KJHSF@aol.com] Re: Wild Things gets panned? or not? [susan+rick ] Re: Wild Things gets panned? or not? ["Ian Scott" ] Re: Wild Things gets panned? or not? [dsk ] Re: Wild Things gets panned? or not? [Randy Remote ] Does this line ruin "L.I.S."? [Relayer211@aol.com] Re: Wild Things gets panned? or not? ["hell" ] Re: Does this line ruin "L.I.S."? [dsk ] Song for Sharon ["Robert Holliston" ] ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Mon, 18 Jun 2001 03:12:58 -0400 From: les@jmdl.com Subject: Today's Articles: June 18 On June 18 these articles about Joni were published: 1998: "Fair Game" - New Times LA (Biography, with photographs) http://www.jmdl.com/articles/docs/980618ntla.cfm 1998: "Woodstock Returning This Year" - NicksFix website (News Item) http://www.jmdl.com/articles/docs/980618nf.cfm - ------------------------ The JMDL Article Database has 603 titles. http://www.jmdl.com/articles Contributions always welcome! ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 18 Jun 2001 03:12:58 -0400 From: les@jmdl.com Subject: Today in Joni History: June 18 On June 18 in Joni Mitchell History: 1999: Don Rowe wrote to the list: "This just in from a review of a Go-Betweens concert in Toronto ... Robert Forster introduced 'Spring Rain' saying: 'This is dedicated to Joni Mitchell, who Grant (McLennan) and I saw walking down the street in Toronto today ... she looked fantastic!'" - ------------------------ Search (and contribute to) the "Today" database: http://www.jmdl.com/today ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 18 Jun 2001 03:44:34 -0400 From: "Jim L'Hommedieu" Subject: Re:Anaconda Well, van Gough pissed in their fireplace..... Why shouldn't Joni pee in the valet lot and drag them through...... oh, you know...... Lama Jennymac said, >>Okay about the place and the tequila anaconda but is she singing abut herself??? First of all women don't piss, we pee. And second, can anybody ever imagine the Joanster being so out of it as to perform this albiet artistic endeavor?? However, my confusion, or is it a bad batch of Biloba, is this: the rest of the song sonds like she's totally referring to herself and her penchant for the blah blah blah. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 18 Jun 2001 03:50:01 -0400 From: "Jim L'Hommedieu" Subject: Re: Anaconda About Joni's: >>There was a moon and a street lamp I didn't know I drank such a lot Till I pissed a tequila anaconda The full length of the parking lot! Oh I talk too loose Again I talk too open and free>> Bob noted: >>There's basically NO transition from her "pissing" story to her going on about her talking...but I think it's there to set up the song as a somewhat playful one, and she changes subjects on lines 4 to 5 much like an overly yakky person would change subjects in conversation before you can get a word in edgewise.>> It seems like the character in the song is scolding herself for yakking about urination...... I know *I* would! Lama It seems strange not to label this offensive little thread "NJC", doesn't it? New email: jlamadoo@one.net ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 18 Jun 2001 14:43:13 -0700 From: "Ian Scott" Subject: Re:SJC Isle of Wight Festival '69 or '70? >It's been a while since I've seen the "Message To Love" concert film, >now I'm eager to see it again. >Any other reflections you have would be most welcome. >RR Randy, I've never seen Murray Lerner's 1995 film "Message to Love", so I'm eager to see it too. I've only just started surfing the net to find out what info. is out there re. the Isle of Wight Festivals. Until now, I've only had my personal memories to go on. The best site I've discovered so far is the IOWRock site. This, in turn, led me to discover that Isle of Wight resident, rock historian and Joni Mitchell biographer, Brian Hinton has published a couple of histories of the Isle of Wight festivals: "Nights in Wight Satin - An illustrated History of the Isle of Wight Festivals" and "Message to Love", the companion book to the film. Right now, I'm overseas, but eventually I'm going to buy these books, as well as the video. Whether they're any good or not, I cannot say, but I see at amazon that his biography of Joni gets terrible reviews, one reviewer even describing it as "a complete disaster", so, if they're anything like as bad, I'm probably going to be disappointed. This account of Saturday, August 29, 1970, the day Joni played, from someone I've been communicating with on a messageboard, gives some indication of the mood of the "angry mob" on the hill. It sounds pretty much in tune with the impression I got of the mood of the crowd inside the arena: "I was a fresh faced 12 year old lad when my mum and dad decided to take me and my sister to see 'those strange hippies' over at Freshwater. It was a hot summer's afternoon as we carefully picked our way over the writhing sea of humanity that had spread for miles over the downs above the arena. I had gone on some way ahead of the others so decided to wait while they caught up with me. Eventually my mum arrived, hot, bothered and more than a little flustered. She told me that whatever I did, I must NOT look down. Naturally, I immediately looked down and was greeted by the sight of a naked couple -----ing away like a couple of steam hammers to the strains of Tiny Tim's 'Tiptoe Through the Tulips'! Now, there were no tulips and that couple were certainly not tiptoeing but every time I hear that song, (which, thank God, isn't often), I recall that incident and remember the day that I learnt about 'flower power'!" I, personally, spent my 17th and 18th birthdays at the 1969 and 1970 Isle of Wight festivals, and they were two of the most wonderful birthdays in my life. In 1970, we pitched our tent in a surprisingly empty spot just outside the arena. When we woke up in the morning, we found out why it was empty: it was in the middle of the Hell's Angels' encampment! But even the Angels were no trouble at that festival: they just seemed to spend all of their time throwing each other in the cess pit, the presence of which was probably another reason why that place was empty!. But, I could only smell roses that weekend, or was it tulips? Randy, I could write pages more about those festivals, but I think, in future I'd better do it off-list, as I fear that fellow-listees may be beginning to think that I have hi-jacked the Joni list and started turning it into the Isle of Wight Festival list! Sorry, everybody. Ian ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 18 Jun 2001 08:12:27 -0400 From: Brian Gross Subject: Re: SJC Isle of Wight Festival '69 or '70? Ian Scott wrote: > snip > > I could write pages more about those festivals, but I think, in > future I'd better do it off-list, as I fear that fellow-listees may be > beginning to think that I have hi-jacked the Joni list and started turning > it into the Isle of Wight Festival list! Sorry, everybody. No need to apologize Ian! Please - - as long as you mark your post NJC - feel free to share with us ALL your recollections of the festivals. I, for one, look forward to reading more! take care, Brian in South Jersey USA - -- After twenty-three years you'd think I could find A way to let you know somehow That I want to see your smiling face Forty-five years from now. --Stan Rogers ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 18 Jun 2001 07:41:33 -0700 From: "Brenda J. Walker" Subject: Re: Goin Indie njc Randy Remote wrote: > > > An act on a major label is lucky to get $1 per CD sold-and that's > only after they have paid off the cost of the recording, maybe a video, > etc....they are often in the hole, unless they sell millions. > Any artist who sells more than 2 million records and is unrecouped either had really bad representation or started demanding limos to take them everywhere and destroyed hotel rooms once the success started to happen. In a common new artist deal, the artist makes about $1.17 per CD. And most artists should be able to recoup around 700,000 units sold. I've known some at major labels who have done it around 400,000. But the key is to keep advances moderate and to have good management that audits what the label is doing regularly and says no to $500K videos and such. Recoupable costs (recording advance, recording costs, tour support, videos, and in some cases independent publicity) are really within the control of the artist and their management. But it requires diligence and unfortunately most managers aren't worth the 15-20% they take off the top. They encourage the label to spend more because they equate this with being a priority. It's often a fallacy. The better managers in the business know all this. But they are a rare breed. When I was working in A&R I always encouraged the artists and their management to create their own balance sheet for their label relationship and figure out exactly how much they would have to sell to cover their recoupable costs BEFORE signing the deal. And to spend the advance on building their own small tracking studio instead of buying a new car, that way no matter what happened with the label they could still make music. If they monitored that balance sheet along the way, they would get a handy lesson on how the business side works so they could later go indie or have a low enough balance to get bought out of their deal if things went sour. Brenda n.p. - Headline News ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 18 Jun 2001 15:45:05 -0000 From: "c Karma" Subject: re: Joni influences Bob This discussion forces me to think back of what was going on back in '73 and '74. Joni has said in more than one interview that she was encouraged by John Lennon to "put some fiddles" on her work so she'd have a hit for herself. I think that advice manifested itself somewhat in "Court and Spark." Of course, Bob was recording "Blood On The Tracks" and Baez, "Diamonds and Rust" in this same period. All three of these artists were creating some of their most stylized work to that point. We also know Dylan's reaction at an advance listening to "Court and Spark": he fell asleep during its play. While Joni has shrugged off the effects of that event, I can't help but wonder if she found his reaction a little underwhelming, to say the least. I would even go so far as to say that if he had shown a more encouraging response, Joni's subsequent dealings with the record business may have been less acrimonious. It's clear that Joni reveres Bob, a point of view to which probably any person who writes songs is compelled, but I wish she could emerge from behind his penumbra. It wouldn't hurt to see Bob kiss a little Joni ass. CC Boring. The old man is snoring and I'm Taming The Tiger. -- JM _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 18 Jun 2001 10:55:12 -0500 From: "Donna J. Binkley" Subject: RE: Anaconda I think the transition between pissing and talking here is perfectly understandable. She's saying she talks too loose because she just shared with the world that she peed in a parking lot. I've peed in a parking lot too but i'm not sure i'd have the balls to put it in a song...but you never know. Donna - -----Original Message----- From: les@jmdl.com [mailto:les@jmdl.com]On Behalf Of SCJoniGuy@aol.com Sent: Sunday, June 17, 2001 7:18 AM To: Jennymac48@aol.com Cc: joni@smoe.org Subject: Re: Anaconda Hi Jenny, That intro to "Talk to Me" IS very strange... There was a moon and a street lamp I didn't know I drank such a lot Till I pissed a tequila anaconda The full length of the parking lot! Oh I talk too loose Again I talk too open and free I pay a high price for my open talking Like you do for your silent mystery There's basically NO transition from her "pissing" story to her going on about her talking...but I think it's there to set up the song as a somewhat playful one, and she changes subjects on lines 4 to 5 much like an overly yakky person would change subjects in conversation before you can get a word in edgewise. The first time I heard the song (on the radio, no less, when DJRD was new) I thought it was her pissing (or peeing or whatever verb one wishes to attach to the act) after drinking a drink called a Tequila Anaconda. But later I realized that she was saying that the stream wound down the parking lot like a snake. In any regard, Joni likes to consider herself as "one of the guys" and I don't think she'd have any problem squatting in a parking lot, probably after one of her companions had just pissed on a wall or "watered" a tree... Bob NP: Mary Chapin-Carpenter, "Stones In The Road" ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 18 Jun 2001 13:10:53 EDT From: SCJoniGuy@aol.com Subject: RE: Anaconda <> Good point, Donna...didn't even think about it like that, which is why 600 heads are better than one! :~) Also, it could be that all the booze she's consumed has loosened up her tongue a bit...that's another transition that makes sense. Joni seldom uses superfluous language in her songs, so whenever something looks odd, I know it's ME and not HER! Bob NP: Marjan Cornille, "Forever Young" ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 18 Jun 2001 10:18:27 -0700 From: "Mark or Travis" Subject: Re: SJC Isle of Wight Festival '69 or '70? > > I could write pages more about those festivals, but I think, in > > future I'd better do it off-list, as I fear that fellow-listees may be > > beginning to think that I have hi-jacked the Joni list and started turning > > it into the Isle of Wight Festival list! Sorry, everybody. > > > No need to apologize Ian! > Please - - as long as you mark your post NJC - feel free to share with > us ALL your recollections of the festivals. > > I, for one, look forward to reading more! I have been enjoying Ian's descriptions of Isle of Wight as well & would love to read more about it. I've always wondered about this particular performance. We've seen all the footage of Joni getting upset and telling the crowd they're acting like tourists and then from the same performance we see her performing beautifully with a smile on her face and the crowd giving her thunderous ovations. The helicopter would explain a lot, for me anyway. Having been raised in a fairly small town in Iowa, I never got within 1,000 miles of a major rock festival. So eye witness reports of I of W or Woodstock or Monterey Pop are fascinating to me. I work with a woman who was at the infamous Altamont debacle. She says the vibes at that concert were way out of whack from the very start of the day. I love listening to her talk about it. Any personal memories of these events are welcome reading for me. Mark in Seattle back from a few days of exploring central Oregon - amazing country! ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 18 Jun 2001 11:35:23 -0700 From: Steve Dulson Subject: Joni-Tours, Inc. Kate wrote: >Kakki you & the long time LA gang are going to have to take us all on a tour >of Joni historical places for the LA Joni fest! and Kakki answered: >Oh absolutely! We have often laughed about starting a "Joni-Tours" business It's just a question of how big a bus to get - I know we'll need a fleet for the LA Jonifest. :) - -- ######################################################## Steve Dulson Costa Mesa CA steve@psitech.com "The Tinker's Own" http://www.tinkersown.com "Southern California Dulcimer Heritage" http://www.scdh.org "The Living Tradition Concert Series" http://www.thelivingtradition.org/ ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 18 Jun 2001 12:03:06 -0700 From: "Kakki" Subject: Re: SJC Isle of Wight Festival '69 or '70? I've also VERY much enjoyed reading your stories and information regarding IOW, Ian! Looking forward to more, Kakki ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 18 Jun 2001 12:58:31 -0700 From: Randy Remote Subject: Re: SJC Isle of Wight Festival '69 or '70? Ian Scott wrote: > Joni Mitchell biographer, Brian Hinton has published a > couple of histories of the Isle of Wight festivals: "Nights in Wight Satin - > An illustrated History of the Isle of Wight Festivals" and "Message to > Love", the companion book to the film. Right now, I'm overseas, but > eventually I'm going to buy these books, as well as the video. Whether > they're any good or not, I cannot say, but I see at amazon that his > biography of Joni gets terrible reviews, one reviewer even describing it as > "a complete disaster", so, if they're anything like as bad, I'm probably > going to be disappointed. Hinton has certainly been called to task on this list for a number of inaccuracies, some of them really basic stuff....he wrote the book without Joni's cooperation....I thought his account of her childhood and early years was more detailed than I had seen, but I thought the book degenerated into long critiques of her albums... > Randy, I could write pages more about those festivals, but I think, in > future I'd better do it off-list, as I fear that fellow-listees may be > beginning to think that I have hi-jacked the Joni list and started turning > it into the Isle of Wight Festival list! Sorry, everybody. As far as I'm concerned, it's great stuff, if you're inclined to keep sending, I'll keep reading! RR ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 18 Jun 2001 16:13:11 EDT From: Jodcrazee@aol.com Subject: Song Interpretations Some time ago I had a friend listen to Song For Sharon. I asked her what she thought it was about. After the song was over she said matter-of-factly: "She wants to have an affair with Sharon's husband." I was facsinated with her interpretation because I had never thought that. Anyone ever heard that in the song? NP: Rufus Wainwright- Shadows ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 18 Jun 2001 13:37:46 -0700 (PDT) From: Don Rowe Subject: Re: Song Interpretations - --- Jodcrazee@aol.com wrote: > Some time ago I had a friend listen to Song For > Sharon. I asked her what she > thought it was about. After the song was over she > said matter-of-factly: > "She wants to have an affair with Sharon's husband." Coming as they do, near the end of the song, I can only guess she's referring to these lines: Sharon you've got a husband And a family and a farm I've got the apple of temptation And a diamond snake around my arm Now not to impugn your friend's powers of perception, but if asked for an interpretation on first listen -- the freshest thing in a first-time listener's mind will be the last thing they hear. That's especially true for Joni's deeper confessional songs like this one ... where there's no traditional repeated "hook" used to anchor the rest of the lyric. So my guess is, those four lines "caught her ear" so to speak, and became the lens she used to focus the rest of what she's just heard. I'm also sure that, upon repeated closer listenings she'd probably scratch her head and wonder "How'd I ever come up with that!?" Don Rowe ===== Visit me anytime at http://www.mp3.com/donrowe Spot the hottest trends in music, movies, and more. http://buzz.yahoo.com/ ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 18 Jun 2001 17:43:28 -0300 From: "Wally Kairuz" Subject: RE: Song Interpretations not really! it's like saying that what lady macbeth wanted was a better brand of soap. wallyK - -----Mensaje original----- De: owner-joni@jmdl.com [mailto:owner-joni@jmdl.com]En nombre de Jodcrazee@aol.com Enviado el: Lunes, 18 de Junio de 2001 05:13 p.m. Para: joni@smoe.org Asunto: Song Interpretations Some time ago I had a friend listen to Song For Sharon. I asked her what she thought it was about. After the song was over she said matter-of-factly: "She wants to have an affair with Sharon's husband." I was facsinated with her interpretation because I had never thought that. Anyone ever heard that in the song? NP: Rufus Wainwright- Shadows ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 18 Jun 2001 13:56:18 -0700 From: Randy Remote Subject: Re: Goin Indie njc Brenda, thanks for the great advice-and comments! Is this the best list ever or what? > > When I was working in A&R I always encouraged the artists and their > management to create their own balance sheet for their label > relationship and figure out exactly how much they would have to sell to > cover their recoupable costs BEFORE signing the deal. And to spend the > advance on building their own small tracking studio instead of buying a > new car, that way no matter what happened with the label they could > still make music. If they monitored that balance sheet along the way, > they would get a handy lesson on how the business side works so they > could later go indie or have a low enough balance to get bought out of > their deal if things went sour. > > Brenda > > n.p. - Headline News ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 18 Jun 2001 14:00:39 -0700 From: Randy Remote Subject: Re: Joni influences Bob I guess the closest Dylan came to complementing her (that I know of) was when the interviewer asked him who he thought the good female songwriters were, and he couldn't come up with any, then the interviewer asks 'what about Joni Mitchell' and he says, 'oh yeah, but she's more like one of the guys' RR c Karma wrote: > It's clear that Joni > reveres Bob, a point of view to which probably any person who writes songs > is compelled, but I wish she could emerge from behind his penumbra. It > wouldn't hurt to see Bob kiss a little Joni ass. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 18 Jun 2001 17:09:25 EDT From: SCJoniGuy@aol.com Subject: Re: Song Interpretations <<"She wants to have an affair with Sharon's husband. Anyone ever heard that in the song?>> No...Joni alludes to wanting the lifestyle of Sharon (sometimes), I don't pick up on her literally desiring her husband. When she says: "But all I really want right now Is find another lover" She's saying that she wants a lover, not a "noble cause". I suppose your friend's opinion is based on the interpretation of the closing statement: "Sharon you've got a husband And a family and a farm I've got the apple of temptation And a diamond snake around my arm But you still have your music And I've still got my eyes on the land and the sky You sing for your friends and your family I'll walk green pastures by and by" And I could see how they could reach that interpretation, but I don't think Joni is relating *her* temptation to her friend's husband...but hey, that's just my opinion, your question was a good one! :~) Bob NP: Bruce, "Thundercrack" PS: A fun piece of trivia, Sharon, whose maiden name was Bell, did have her music and made a record which contained among other things a cover of "Both Sides Now"! ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 18 Jun 2001 18:33:14 EDT From: RoseMJoy@aol.com Subject: I have some news on Joni's Tribute Album This message was from Steve Macklam, one of Joni's managers at SL Feldman & Associates. At least he was kind enough to write me back. Not much info as far as a definite release date, but at least the project hasn't been shelved. Dear Rose: The project is still in progress. There is no planned release date but it will definitely happen at some point. Best Regards Steve rosemjoy@aol.com ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 18 Jun 2001 19:05:51 -0400 From: "Suze Cameron" Subject: Re: I have some news on Joni's Tribute Album - -- >This message was from Steve Macklam, one of Joni's managers at SL Feldman & >Associates. >Dear Rose: >The project is still in progress. There is no planned release date but it >will definitely happen at some point. >Best Regards >Steve Well, Rose, how nebulous can Joni's management be? Is this guy a politician or what? So the real answer is?!?! It will happen when Hell freezes over? Ahhh! Just so frustrating. The phrase "ignorance is bliss" is now having some meaning. I mean, this list is great because of the friendships and information, but knowing of these songs existence and not being released is like some kinda torture. Rose, thanks anyway for trying to get the scoop! Sue Cameron Get 250 color business cards for FREE! http://businesscards.lycos.com/vp/fastpath/ ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 18 Jun 2001 18:03:56 -0500 From: Richard Rice Subject: Re: Tequila anacondas. I get it!!!!!! Slowly but surely, all the loose threads of Joni's lyrics get resolved care of this discussion list. By george, we'll know Joni's music better than she does. (I guarantee we remember more particulars of the old stuff... she's so 'in the now.') The intro to Talk to Me has always been a favorite of mine. The opening line is not weird or disconnected from the body of the song. By telling the pee story, Joni is giving a clear and frank example of just HOW loose her tongue is. She's admiting she talks so much, even personal embarassments are fair game: the line is a confession of a dyed in the wool blabber mouth. --Thanks Bob for 'splitting' tequila from anaconda. I think you're spot on with that reference. She's not talking about peeing some fancy drink, just painting the image of a night of too much tequilla that ended up ribboned across a parking lot. Did she actually do this? Maybe. It may have been a near miss that was dramatized for the sake of the song. Not that it matters. It's the driving rhythm of the song that counts. Of course, she admits there's a price to pay for such a loose and honest tongue... Personally, I am as diametrically opposed to Joni as you can get. I haven't the slightest gift for gab in my body, anywhere... but like her, I'll confess to anything. (Thankfully, I haven't much to confess to.) John. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 18 Jun 2001 20:21:54 EDT From: SCJoniGuy@aol.com Subject: NJC Re: I have some news on Joni's Tribute Album << The project is still in progress. There is no planned release date but it will definitely happen at some point. >> Yes...I understand it now, Rose...Joni's Tribute album is one of the signs of the coming apocalypse. 1. The Lion shall lay with the lamb; 2. The antichrist (666) shall appear on earth (this may have come to pass with the last election!) 3. The four horsemen of the Apocalypse shall ride across the sky, holding a copy of "A Case of Joni"! :~) Yes, quite a "Revelation" you got from the guy in the suit... Bob NP: Rickie Lee Jones, "Howard" (Picked up Ghostyhead on E-Bay for $1.50, it ain't her best work but it's pretty cool and certainly worth a buck and a half!) ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 18 Jun 2001 21:18:16 EDT From: BachelorNumero2@aol.com Subject: Wild Things gets panned? or not? hey folks...... I'm debating my next Joni purchase. I have all of her 70's stuff plus, "Turbulent", "Taming", and "Hits"........I'm not sure if I want to buy "WILD THINGS RUN FAST" as a next purchase. I've given "Chalk Mark" a spin at a record store, and let me put it bluntly.....I didn't like it at all on my first listen. So I'm not sure any of those "Klein" records would appeal to a hard-core, "Spark/Lawns/Daughter" fan. I've heard many mixed reviews of "Wild Things"......and I have "Chinese Cafe" on the "Hits" cd, which I do enjoy. Actually I find "Chinese Cafe" one of her saddest songs ever recorded. So LET'S HAVE A POLL ON WILD THINGS RUN FAST!!! Is it thumbs up or thumbs down????? later ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 19 Jun 2001 02:36:10 +0100 From: Jason Maloney Subject: Re: Wild Things gets panned? or not? BachelorNumero2@aol.com wrote: > > So LET'S HAVE A POLL ON > WILD THINGS RUN FAST!!! Is it thumbs up or thumbs down????? I have to admit WTRF is my least favourite of Joni's 80s albums. Be Cool is fabulous, as is Chinese Cafe, but the rest always fails to work that mysterious magic. Jason, DED till he dies ;-) ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 18 Jun 2001 21:45:30 -0400 From: "Stephen Epstein" Subject: Re: NJC Re: I have some news on Joni's Tribute Album Bob wrote: "NP: Rickie Lee Jones, "Howard" (Picked up Ghostyhead on E-Bay for $1.50, it ain't her best work but it's pretty cool and certainly worth a buck and a half!)" You lucky guy you!! $1.50!!!! I have been looking for this one for years, and just recently found it in a used CD shop for $10.00 CDN. I was elated, to say the least. Still a good buy, as it has been out of print for a long time. The Ghostyhead tour is the only time I have seen RLJ live- and it was wonderful- a small club venue- and the Ghostyhead material was SO not what the audience was expecting! Good for you Bob! Stephen in Vancouver NP: RLJ- Flying Cowboys Now, if only my friend in Buenos Aires would send me Girl at the Volcano- my RLJ collection will be complete! ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 18 Jun 2001 21:59:19 -0400 From: mags Subject: joni mitchell mentioned in Globe and Mail articles http://www.globeandmail.com/ follow this link, type in joni mitchell in the 7 day search engine and voila! enjoy. Mags... np: Case of You, still. ;) - -- - --------------------------------------------------------------------- _~O / /\_, ___/\ /_ - ----------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 19 Jun 2001 15:02:22 +1200 From: "hell" Subject: Re: Wild Things gets panned? or not? BachelorNumero2 wrote: > I'm debating my next Joni purchase. I have all of her 70's stuff plus, > "Turbulent", "Taming", and "Hits"........I'm not sure if I want to buy "WILD > THINGS RUN FAST" as a next purchase. I've given "Chalk Mark" a spin at a > record store, and let me put it bluntly.....I didn't like it at all on my > first listen. So I'm not sure any of those "Klein" records would appeal to a > hard-core, "Spark/Lawns/Daughter" fan. I've heard many mixed reviews of > "Wild Things"......and I have "Chinese Cafe" on the "Hits" cd, which I do > enjoy. Actually I find "Chinese Cafe" one of her saddest songs ever recorded. > > So LET'S HAVE A POLL ON > WILD THINGS RUN FAST!!! Is it thumbs up or thumbs down????? Definitely a big thumbs-up from me. WTRF was the first Joni album I heard and subsequently bought myself, so it does have more significance than some others. But I still love the music, and let's be honest, the worst Joni (if you think that way about WTRF - I don't) is still a thousand times better than a lot of what's being played on the radio these days! Hell ____________________________ "To have great poets, there must be great audiences too." - Walt Whitman hell@ihug.co.nz Hell's Personal Photo Page: http://homepages.ihug.co.nz/~hell/main/personal.htm Visit the NBLs (Natural Born Losers) at: http://www.nbls.co.nz ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 18 Jun 2001 20:33:09 -0700 (PDT) From: CHRIS TREACY Subject: Wild Things Gets Panned, or not? One must keep in mind that each JM collection is a completely independant affair, regardless of the fact that we've grouped them together at times so as to help understand her long career more easily in digestable chunks. WTRF is part of the 'I Love Larry' period for sure, but it contains more of the elements one would normally associate with a JM project than DED or CMIARS. Neither synth-laden (electric keyboards are used more sparingly) nor politically outspoken, the disc is quite personal with, what would have been considered at the time, a more modern and 'graduated' early 80's style. In the end, I think THAT is it's biggest flaw; it incorporates a radio-friendly stylization that is specific to the time period in which it was recorded as opposed to having that timeless JM quality that keeps her work a cut (or 5) above the rest. Even "Court & Spark," with it's very laid back and breezy 70's L.A. session sound has a refreshing element that still holds true 28 years on... You're going to get WTRF eventually, so why not do it now? Try and listen with an open mind, and perhaps the disc will suprise you. Try and contextualize as you listen...remember when it was made, JM's new love and marriage scenario...I think seeing it in a historical context will help make it more enjoyable. Repeated plays are necessary. - -Chris NP: All in the Family on Nick@Nite ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 18 Jun 2001 23:40:00 -0400 From: dsk Subject: Re: Joni influences Bob c Karma wrote: > We also know > Dylan's reaction at an advance listening to "Court and Spark": he fell > asleep during its play. While Joni has shrugged off the effects of that > event, I can't help but wonder if she found his reaction a little > underwhelming, to say the least. Considering how open Joni is about how she feels, my guess is she's not holding in a negative reaction, and that there was some reason for his falling asleep other than the music that happened to be playing... tail-end of a 3-day party maybe or something like that. If Joni truly felt insulted, we'd know about it. > I would even go so far as to say that if > he had shown a more encouraging response, Joni's subsequent dealings with > the record business may have been less acrimonious. Maybe so, although Joni is so intent on doing things her way she was bound to run into conflict. > It's clear that Joni > reveres Bob, a point of view to which probably any person who writes songs > is compelled, but I wish she could emerge from behind his penumbra. It > wouldn't hurt to see Bob kiss a little Joni ass. After reading the story about Tangled Up in Blue, my thought is he may have done that already in a way that Joni would understand. She seems to have no trouble turning her back on people who treat her badly, so I truly doubt if she reveres him only because of his songwriting ability. The two things we know about, the incident you mention and Bob's comment about Joni being one of the guys, can't be the whole story between them. Debra Shea NP: Christine Collister, An Equal Love, "In the Beginning" ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 18 Jun 2001 23:36:56 EDT From: KJHSF@aol.com Subject: Re: Wild Things gets panned? or not? All of this is IMHO, of course: Sure, Chinese Cafe is the standout song on WTRF, but there are other songs that I remember enjoying when I first got the album--Ladies Man, Moon at the Window, Man to Man (I love the way she sings "I stick my nose up in the air) and You Dream Flat Tires, ("Are you telling me this to tease me?" has such a sexy intonation!) I think the reason the album doesn't fare well is that the songs you don't like, you really don't like--Underneath the Streetlight comes to mind as the album's Dancin' Clown. And I never really "got" Be Cool until I heard the version as it was arranged all big and Las Vegasy at the BSN concert in Concord last year. Still, it's Joni and for me, any Joni is better than no Joni at all. Ken ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 18 Jun 2001 21:02:08 -0700 From: susan+rick Subject: Re: Wild Things gets panned? or not? On 6/18/01 6:18 PM, BachelorNumero2@aol.com wrote > I'm debating my next Joni purchase. ...I'm not sure if I want to buy "WILD > THINGS RUN FAST" as a next purchase. > So LET'S HAVE A POLL ON > WILD THINGS RUN FAST!!! WTRF is one of my favourites because it deals exclusively with love. It centres on the start of her relationship with Klein (before he started to have a bigger influence on her recording sessions which is why she eventually broke up with him.) I had to go back and scroll through the archives to find something I posted in early 2000 to someone who didn't like WTRF at first listen. >.....try to see it as a picture >of a woman entering a new and exhilarating relationship, one that, this >time, feels like a real "grown-up" love, a "solid love". >"Chinese Cafe/Unchained Melody" is the realization that we all get, that >time has indeed passed, everything changes, including relationships, which seem, in Joni's case, to come and go. >"WTRF" is the start of a new relationship, the skittish wild animal being >lulled into "eating out of her hand". >The rest of the album charts the give and take of carving out a relationship >until the glorious shout of "Yes I do-I love you": "Hey, I am in love and I >like it, the world is perfect, I love you." >Then comes "Love", a more thoughtful take on the meaning of love after the >exuberance of "Underneath the Streetlight": "Yes, I am older now and I >realize that there are things you have to do to keep love and things I will >never understand about love but it's worth everything it takes to keep it....." I think this is Joni's most comprehensive look at the subject of love until BSN (inferior to WTRF, IMHO) which added the element of the end of the ride. As I've said before, I relate to music more on a feeling level than a musically-analytical level and WTRF strikes a deep emotional chord inside me. All the best Ranger Rick ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 19 Jun 2001 07:18:15 -0700 From: "Ian Scott" Subject: Re: Wild Things gets panned? or not? It's worth buying for Chinese Cafe and the title track, and anyway, you know deep down inside, you're going to have to complete the set eventually, don't you? James Taylor and LIONEL RICHIE on backing vocals?!?! (Lionel was REALLY big in the early 80s). As on most of Joni's albums over the last 25 years, Wayne Shorter is on sax, and I've just bought the 1999 Blue Note re-release of his greatest album, "Speak no Evil", which has another Joni backing musician, Herbie Hancock, on piano, as well as what must be one of the coolest album covers of that or any other year. Look out for it!. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 19 Jun 2001 00:27:56 -0400 From: dsk Subject: Re: Wild Things gets panned? or not? Thumbs up here! The sound is not nearly as fuzzy as DED or Chalk Mark, and Joni is wildly, deliriously, almost embarrassingly in love on this one (Underneath the Streetlight... zowie!), so there's a lot of rocking energy, along with a few of Joni's usual pensive songs. I like knowing her "in love" side. Solid Love is one of my favorite Joni songs because it's so happy and hopeful. (You're So Square) Baby, I Don't Care and You Dream Flat Tires sound great played loudly; both are dance around the room tunes. So I vote, yes, get Wild Things for when you're in the mood for some lighthearted enjoyment. Debra Shea NP: Joni singing You Dream Flat Tires... "Love is precious, Everybody knows it's precious"... I like the way this song goes into Man to Man. BachelorNumero2@aol.com wrote: > So LET'S HAVE A POLL ON > WILD THINGS RUN FAST!!! Is it thumbs up or thumbs down????? ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 18 Jun 2001 21:29:20 -0700 From: Randy Remote Subject: Re: Wild Things gets panned? or not? I think WTRF was her last really great album...no synths, no drum loops, no VG-8...just great songwriting, a real band feel, and her voice was not yet damaged goods.... Running for cover, RR BachelorNumero2@aol.com wrote: > hSo LET'S HAVE A POLL ON > WILD THINGS RUN FAST!!! Is it thumbs up or thumbs down????? ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 19 Jun 2001 00:44:21 EDT From: Relayer211@aol.com Subject: Does this line ruin "L.I.S."? According to the author of a book about Dylan the line "I can't seem to make it with you socially" ruins the otherwise fine song,"Lesson in survival".Does anyone agree? ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 19 Jun 2001 16:42:46 +1200 From: "hell" Subject: Re: Wild Things gets panned? or not? RR wrote (before running for cover!): > I think WTRF was her last really great album...no synths, no drum > loops, no VG-8...just great songwriting, a real band feel, and her > voice was not yet damaged goods.... While I agree that WTRF was a great album, I think the prize for the "last great" album must go to Night Ride Home. Great songwriting, and far more acoustic than anything immediately prior, or since, although I suppose you could argue that TI was pretty sparse instrumentally. But NRH is definitely up there in my top three. Hell - coughing and sneezing, and generally feeling YUCK (I hate colds!) ____________________________ "To have great poets, there must be great audiences too." - Walt Whitman hell@ihug.co.nz Hell's Personal Photo Page: http://homepages.ihug.co.nz/~hell/main/personal.htm Visit the NBLs (Natural Born Losers) at: http://www.nbls.co.nz ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 19 Jun 2001 00:59:07 -0400 From: dsk Subject: Re: Does this line ruin "L.I.S."? Nah, not me, although it is a lot to fit in, which is typical Joni-style. How come it's mentioned in a Dylan book? Any more Joni content there? Debra Shea Relayer211@aol.com wrote: > According to the author of a book about Dylan the line "I can't seem to > make it with you socially" ruins the otherwise fine song,"Lesson in > survival".Does anyone agree? ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 18 Jun 2001 23:42:28 -0700 From: "Robert Holliston" Subject: Song for Sharon To me, "Song for Sharon" acknowledges the process by which we all sort out our priorities and make choices accordingly. That Joni feels wistful and perhaps a bit envious of Sharon's choice (and "Sharon" could simply represent any number of honorable people who have chosen a more stable life than the one Joni chose for herself) is borne out, for me, in the lines, "you still have your music/and I've still got my eyes on the land and the sky/you sing for your friends and your family/I'll walk green pastures by and by." Aside from the earlier reference to the mandolin, this is the major reference to music in this song and, significantly, it's the last verse. What this has always said to me is that Sharon, in choosing to share her music only with her immediate circle, has somehow managed to keep it, while Joni, who has by this time shared her music with untold millions of total strangers, has somehow lost it, and is left with her restlessness. This is nothing new, of course: "For Free" is even more direct, but also less personal. Then there's the last line: Joni's always been good at transforming common cliches and shedding new light on them. I have no doubt that "greener pastures" refers to the old moral, "the grass is greener on the other side." In this case, Joni knows that, however attractive another person's life may seem, it isn't hers, which is the one she must ultimately pursue. As for the last three words, "by and by," she'll find it one of these days. And lose it as quickly. To me (and sorry to go on so long ;-), Hejira is really a song cycle, so each song relates to all the rest. If Blue is self-revealing, Hejira is self-excoriating. Joni's famous for spending many hours on her albums deciding on the order in which the songs are ultimately presented. I doubt that she had any trouble with this one: Hejira, which is all about the conflict between stability and instability, between the known and the unknown, ends with "Refuge of the Road." my two bits on the subject, Roberto _________________________________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com. ------------------------------ End of JMDL Digest V2001 #259 ***************************** ------- Post messages to the list by clicking here: mailto:joni@smoe.org Unsubscribe by clicking here: mailto:joni-digest-request@smoe.org?body=unsubscribe ------- Siquomb, isn't she?