From: les@jmdl.com (JMDL Digest) To: joni-digest@smoe.org Subject: JMDL Digest V2001 #243 Reply-To: joni@smoe.org Sender: les@jmdl.com Errors-To: les@jmdl.com Precedence: bulk Unsubscribe: mailto:joni-digest-request@smoe.org?body=unsubscribe Archives: http://www.smoe.org/lists/joni Websites: http://www.jmdl.com http://www.jonimitchell.com JMDL Digest Monday, June 4 2001 Volume 2001 : Number 243 The 'Official' Joni Mitchell Homepage, created by Wally Breese, can be found at http://www.jonimitchell.com. It contains the latest news, a detailed bio, Original Interviews, essays, lyrics and much much more. The JMDL website can be found at http://www.jmdl.com and contains interviews, articles, the member gallery, archives, and much more. Information on the 4th "Annual" New England JoniFest: http://www.jmdl.com/jfne2001.cfm The Joni Chat Room: http://www.jmdl.com/chat.cfm ========== TOPICS and authors in this Digest: -------- Visiting Kakki et al in California - NJC ["Marian" ] Learning to Crawl NJC ["Kate Bennett" ] Subject: Whoops! (NJC) ["Kate Bennett" ] Rock Troubadors ["kerry" ] Re: feminism etc NJC [SCJoniGuy@aol.com] Little things that drive you mad - njc [Catherine McKay ] norman guitars NJC [mags ] need help w/Tori Amos video, NJC ["Jim L'Hommedieu" ] Re: NY Fest, Feminist, Egotists, Capitalists, Rapists, etc. Whew ! :-) [] Cute Stevie quote about Joni ["Nikki Johnson" ] Re: JMDL Digest V2001 #242 [Stacey4882@aol.com] Re: JMDL Digest V2001 #242 [Stacey4882@aol.com] Re: Cute Stevie quote about Joni [Murphycopy@aol.com] ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Sun, 3 Jun 2001 10:16:32 +0200 From: "Marian" Subject: Visiting Kakki et al in California - NJC I wanted to express my thanks to Kakki, Coyote Rick, Brad, Steve and Michele Dulson, and Clarke Carlton for a memorable night in LA a week ago Thursday. Coyote Rick brought me a very nice Vanity Fair t-shirt - an unexpected a very much appreciated gift. We all dined in the lovely garden of Les Deux Cafes. In spite of having been awake more than 23 hours, I only faded out a few times during our three-hour dinner. The food was excellent - especially the dessert of white chocolate ice cream sandwiched between chewy meringue. Towards the end of the dinner, Kakki and Rick started planning next year's LA Jonifest, which is sure to be a fantastic event. I hope I'll be able to make it. We returned to Kakki's lovely apartment in downtown LA for coffee, sweets and music. I seemed to wake up then, maybe since 11:30 p.m. is 8:30 a.m. in my time zone. My sister Jennifer and I sang some songs that we used to play when we were teenagers, and Clarke played some of his beautiful original tunes. He played one new one that I would like to learn, but I'll have to wait for his next CD to learn it, I guess. Anyway, I really had a great time and it was nice to meet more of the JMDL family. I hope we will all see each other again soon! Love, Marian marian@jmdl.com http://www.jmdl.com/guitar/marian/guitar.htm ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 3 Jun 2001 01:11:54 -0700 From: "Kate Bennett" Subject: Learning to Crawl NJC How did I know know that this song was written for her daughter? How beautiful. Thank you. It really describes the feeling I think many of us have when we first meet our newborn child...The miracle & the hope & love... Show me the meaning of the word Show me the meaning of the word Cause I've heard so much about it They say you can't live without it Welcome to the human race With its wars, disease and brutality You with your innocence and grace Restore some pride and dignity To a world in decline Welcome to a special place In a heart of stone that's cold & gray You with your angel face Keep the despair at bay Send it away and Show me the meaning of the word Show me the meaning of the word Cause I've heard so much about it They say you can't live without Love I want love Love I want love Welcome here from outer space The Milky Way still in your eyes You found yourself a hopeless case One who's seeking perfection on earth Or some kind of rebirth so Show me the meaning of the word Show me the meaning of the word Cause I've heard so much about it I can't live without it I don't wanna live without Love I want love Love I want love Love ******************************************** Kate Bennett www.katebennett.com sponsored by Polysonics www.polysonics.com Discover the Indies at Taylor Guitars: http://www.taylorguitars.com/artists/awp/indies/bennett.html ******************************************** ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 3 Jun 2001 01:12:58 -0700 From: "Kate Bennett" Subject: Subject: Whoops! (NJC) From: RedDirtRoad1@aol.com said, "My first post and I already screwed up - no subject line. So sorry!!" Is that you Emmylou? ******************************************** Kate Bennett www.katebennett.com sponsored by Polysonics www.polysonics.com Discover the Indies at Taylor Guitars: http://www.taylorguitars.com/artists/awp/indies/bennett.html ******************************************** ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 3 Jun 2001 10:41:51 -0500 From: "kerry" Subject: Rock Troubadors Julius wrote: >>_Rock Troubadours: Conversations on the Art and Craft of Songwriting with Jerry Garcia, Ani DiFranco, Dave Matthews, Joni >>Mitchell, Paul Simon, and More_ >>Just wondering if anyone on list has read this book, which came out in December 2000? Sounds intriguing. I'm would certainly >>be interested in hearing what Joni had to say on the subject. This is a collection of interviews from Acoustic Guitar Magazine. Joni's interview did appear on their website. Not sure if it's available on JMDL.com. Anyone else know? It's a nice book. I bought it for my niece (and wished I would have ordered a copy for myself!) Take care, Kerry NP - Big Mama Thornton - Hound Dog ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 3 Jun 2001 12:13:58 EDT From: SCJoniGuy@aol.com Subject: Re: feminism etc NJC Hi! Welcome to the JMDL, and thanks for sharing your experiences with us. I know that's it's tough but I'm sure it's a big help in working through that... Looking forward to hearing more from you, hopefully on some lighter subjects too! Bob, in Kentucky, heading back to SC Monday PM... ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 3 Jun 2001 13:16:27 -0400 (EDT) From: Catherine McKay Subject: Little things that drive you mad - njc I'm labelling this njc because, although there is a tiny bit of Jc, I suspect it's not of the sort that would interest the joni-onlys. My husband and I are separating. This will not be a long diatribe on the rights and wrongs done by one person to another, who's right, who's wrong, or anything of the kind. So far, unbelievably, we are both being uncharacteristically civil about it - we do have to live in the same house until he can move out and his lease begins July 1. I am waiting for the other shoe to drop. It is unlike my husband not to make some totally mean-spirited personal remark, and there have been fewer than I would expect, knowing him as I do and having lived with him for 20 years. It is also unlike me not to rise to the bait if he makes one of these remarks, so, so far, so good. Here is the thing that is pissing me off though and it goes to show you what petty and strange creatures we humans can be. He was going through our CDs picking out the ones that he would like to take with him when he leaves. Among these are some Jane Siberry and (God forbid) Joni!!! and here I am getting angry inside about this when I can always just go out and buy another copy, or make copies (I would give him the copies of course - my money paid for all this stuff). So what's my problem? Somebody, please convince me that this is a real honest-to-goodness case of sweating the small stuff (when there are so many other things I could and should be concerned about - like child custody, for example.) Sometimes I don't believe myself... Get your free @yahoo.ca address at http://mail.yahoo.ca ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 03 Jun 2001 13:38:09 -0400 From: Jerry Notaro Subject: Re: Little things that drive you mad - njc Joni cd's, small stuff??!! Actually, in the realm of those things you are going through, they are. It's not worth fighting over. There can't be anything in your collection that we here can't help you replace. Now if he heads for the 1/2 speed master copy of C&S on vinyl, load the shotgun. Jerry, anxiously awaiting the Tony Awards Show ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 3 Jun 2001 15:25:22 -0400 From: "Nikki Johnson" Subject: RE: Rock Troubadours...(speaking of books...) I recall someone ( I think it was Julius) mentioning a book of female artists. I was wondering if anyone had gotten it and what it said about Joni. Also if Stevie Nicks was in it. Love Nikki np: Lauryn Hill~ I Used To Love Him "Dream on but don't imagine they'll all come true...Vienna waits for you" ~ Billy Joel > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-joni@jmdl.com [mailto:owner-joni@jmdl.com]On Behalf Of > JRMCo1@aol.com > Sent: Sunday, June 03, 2001 2:02 AM > To: joni@smoe.org > Subject: Rock Troubadours... > > > _Rock Troubadours: Conversations on the Art and Craft of > Songwriting with Jerry Garcia, Ani DiFranco, Dave Matthews, Joni > Mitchell, Paul Simon, and More_ > > Just wondering if anyone on list has read this book, which came > out in December 2000? Sounds intriguing. I'm would certainly be > interested in hearing what Joni had to say on the subject. > > -Julius ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 03 Jun 2001 21:00:23 +0100 From: catman Subject: Re: Little things that drive you mad - njc I am sad to read this. I am so sorry this is happening, whetehr it be good in the long or not. It is not a fun thing to split after so long. About you being upset about what see as small stuff. Sometimes, we foucs on the small stuff as a way of avoiding the stuff that is really painful and scary. A totally natural thing to do. love colin ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 3 Jun 2001 17:27:39 -0300 From: "Wally Kairuz" Subject: RE: Little things that drive you mad - njc catherine, number one, my let me pick my jaw off the floor. number two, baby, you can count on me if i can be of any help. number three, you can get a lawyer to discuss child custody -- no one can protect you when they're taking your cd's away, especially when they're being nice and sweet about it. my first impulse would be to get the carving knife and go for the crotch. i understand you oh so well. play it cool. 50-50. love, wally >>>>>>>>>>>. So what's my problem? Somebody, please convince me that this is a real honest-to-goodness case of sweating the small stuff (when there are so many other things I could and should be concerned about - like child custody, for example.) Sometimes I don't believe myself... Get your free @yahoo.ca address at http://mail.yahoo.ca ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 03 Jun 2001 17:57:37 -0500 From: "Diane Evans" Subject: Midwest mini-fest (NJC) Kerry, Your address is not working for me. Keeps coming back as a delivery failure. Forgive me, listers, for posting this here. I plan to be there on the 16th. I will most likely bring a friend with and we'll most likely be staying in Milwaukee at my cousin's. I'll be coming up through Chicago so directions from there are good for me. Looking forward to meeting some more of the people I've become fond of through this list! Even if it's a "quieter" evening, it's hard to beat the combination of good music, good food, good people, and good conversation. Take care, Di _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 03 Jun 2001 19:06:40 -0400 From: mags Subject: norman guitars NJC does anyone know anything about Norman guitars? Are they good? Pls email me privately, thanks. Mags - -- - --------------------------------------------------------------------- _~O / /\_, ___/\ /_ - ----------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 3 Jun 2001 23:12:32 -0400 From: "Jim L'Hommedieu" Subject: need help w/Tori Amos video, NJC Hey all, I'm looking for a Tori Amos video that has some amazing stereo sound that includes lots of room ambience. I have only seen one track, which includes the line, "mangy, little whore" and the audience clearly gasps in a small theatre environment. She's alone at a black piano on a black stage and the camera is on the 1st balcony. Is this "Live From New York"? Is it in the "Little Earthquakes" video? Is it in the so-called "Complete Collection: 1991 - 1998"? In return, I'll lighten up your heavy load with this inspirational quote from a runner named Alan Webb in today's New York Times (p. 18) on developing as a runner but it applies to me as a developer too. On challenge, he says, "I embrace it. I have inherited a challenge for myself. The only way to conquer it is for myself. No one can do the workouts for me. No one can run the races for me. I'll have to sacrifice a lot. There will be a lot of suffering and discomfort. I'm not afraid of hard training. Let it hurt. Let it carry me to faster times." Lama ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 3 Jun 2001 23:25:49 EDT From: Bobsart48@aol.com Subject: Re: NY Fest, Feminist, Egotists, Capitalists, Rapists, etc. Whew ! :-) Finally after a week I have a chance to post a few comments about last week's NY fest at Judy's Chelsea in NY. I had other plans cancelled, and late in the week realized I really ought to go and meet some JMDL'ers, so I got in touch with David Lahm by e-mail, confessed my lateness to and ignorance of the party plans, etc, but he extended a warm welcome anyway, and I was starting to feel I would be right at home, and sure, I could bring my guitar even though I wasn't prepared to play anything formal. I figured it was really nice of him to go out and rent space in Manhattan for a gathering like this, so that we could all get together and meet each other and play some on an informal basis, etc. He must have thought it was pretty cute, and figured he'd play along with my naivete' by not telling me JC's was his place. So, I find out when I get there Saturday afternoon, and right off the bat I get to listen to him play a few songs and oops - no wonder it's his place (or is it really Judy's - I know they're in this together, but in my family I have limited rights of ownership) - he's a real musician ! And David's real nice, and asks me if I plan to play, and I say not really, but if someone wants to sing California I'll try to put on a JT style accompaniment that I started to figure out last night, if the timing is right or whatever. So, for the next six hours I get to meet a bunch of JMDL'ers in person (my first such group - it was exciting for me to meet you all - especially David, Rose, Sue, Nikki, Kay (?), Debra and Roberto - another musical talent). I also have the honor to meet Judy, who has a few opinions of her own, I gather :-), and who wasn't too interested in the fact that I was a Joni Mitchell fan, but warmed right up when I mentioned I had enjoyed seeing Peter Allen in a cabaret about 25 years ago - and then proceeded to remind me where I had seen him (at a place called Reno Sweeney's, in NY). "How'd you know that" I asked, and she smiled sweetly (but with perhaps just the slightest hint of deserved condescension) and replied "well, I am in the business". ;-) And, I really enjoyed all the music, as well. And at night, there are real patrons as well as us JMDL'ers, and near the end David nudges Alison up there to sing California and then tells her that I am going to accompany her on the guitar (pretty sneaky - I assume Alison thinks David's going to put some pretty piano line on the song). Anyway, Alison sings the song so well it distracts me, and I miss about half the notes, I think :-( - yeah, that must have been why ;-) - but everyone seems to agree with me about what a nice job Alison did, so there is applause at the end anyway. Alison - if there is a next time, I promise to get it all right, now that I have finished learning it. Anyway, you were terrific. Which brings me to the other stuff. Sue McNamara (of JMDL guitar TAB creator fame - great job there by you, Sue, and by the other tab posters - and "doesn't it feel good" ;-) to get a little public recognition for the really wonderful job you have done), in an earlier post, said "As far as Joni is concerned, if she had said I am not a feminist, I'm a humanist, it might not have hurt so much, but as much as I love the woman, Joni is a Joni-ist. Her goal was/is to further the art, so that didn't leave too much time to support other women (read competition). Her philosophies seem very power-oriented (in an individualistic way [dogeatdog]). David Crosby said she was as shy as Mussolini and Dylan called her a man!! :-) ha ha. She is definitely not a feminist (in my opinion). " Well, I agree and yet I disagree. Joni does appear to be an egoist (there's that label thing again), by which I mean she has a big ego, and that is not in my mind's eye a negative. It is, rather, a necessary evil of sorts (sort of like captialism, in my opinion). It is a driver (not the only one, of course) of performance, creativity and excellence, but it can be destructive if allowed to get out of control and dominate. And she knows it. She has confessed over and over of her wrestling with it, of her struggle for higher achievement, etc. etc. Need I quote the lines ? I don't think I have to for this list. However, is that necessarily mutually exclusive with being a feminist ? Again, this may depend on definitions and semantics, but I don't think so. Surely the self anointed leaders of the feminist movement have been egoists - or worse, in my opinion - and talk about a philosophy oriented toward power ! If feminism is "the doctrine advocating social, political and all other rights of women equal to those of men" (Random House Unabridged), then Joni probably is a feminist if that term is defined as 1) one who agrees with or morally supports the doctrine. If to be a feminist 2) one must be politically active in support of the doctrine, or must agree with political extensions of the doctrine - such as separate as well as equal, or better than equal, or entitled to affirmative action to impose some sort of supposed statistical equality, or entitled to preferential treatment in the job market because of such status - then I suppose she is not. When she said she is not, I suspect she was applying the second definition to the term, rather than the first. And I suspect that you may have been, too. Anyway, I prefer the first definition, myself, so that I can pretend to think of myself as a feminist, despite my aversion to and disassociation with many aspects of the second definition. Anyway, we all agree that ongoing atrocities against women are abhorrent - but we seem to be not sufficiently motivated to collectively take action against it. Is this cowardly or wise ? This may be a more difficult question than it appears on its face. Is it worth waging war over ? Will there be more pain, or less in the short run ? In the long run ? That Yeat's poem variant "Slouching" haunts - 'the best lack conviction, given some time to think, and the worst are full of passion without mercy". Speaking of which, Colin, I agree with you that sex offenders, and others whose crimes are of such a type that recitivism is likely to be the norm rather than the exception, need to be locked up and kept away from the rest of us (not to mention from their earlier victims, if they are still alive). And there is no reason for you to feel conflicted about this. The criminals put the rest of us in a position where we must choose from the lesser of two evils - 1) to allow the perpetrators to go unpunished and/or continue to terrorize the rest of us, or 2) debase our spirits by locking them up, or executing them in certain cases, acts we also find abhorrent. Well, I for one do not think this is a difficult choice. Just a rotten one. The answer is simple - stop committing atrocious crimes. And like you said - be a good parent. Finally, just finished playing in a bridge tournament this week in New York - a game full of beauty but tarnished by ego - there's the serpent and the ealge again. Again, it will be an all men's final (although one team of 4 women and one team of 5 players with 2 women made the semi-finals this year). Not like golf, but still a male-dominated game. Hard to hypothesize exactly why - especially in this political climate, where some subjects are taboo. Not on the list, though :-). Any takers ? ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 4 Jun 2001 00:08:46 -0400 From: "Nikki Johnson" Subject: Cute Stevie quote about Joni My good friend Theresa saw this quote and sent it to me so I thought I'd pass it along cause it was pretty cool:-) Love Nikki "I hope that my music makes people feel the way I used to feel when I went home with a record that I loved," Nicks says. "My favorite example of that is Joni Mitchell's 'Court & Spark.' I heard that record as I was joining Fleetwood Mac, so for me, it _was_ the beginning of Fleetwood Mac. For days, I just lay on the floor & sang along with her & tried to learn how she phrases & how she gets all those words into one sentence, & I got such joy from that. When I hear one of those songs today, I just have to sit down, because I'm still so knocked out. That's how I hope my music affects people." Stevie Nicks "Dream on but don't imagine they'll all come true...Vienna waits for you" ~ Billy Joel ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 4 Jun 2001 00:49:20 EDT From: Stacey4882@aol.com Subject: Re: JMDL Digest V2001 #242 << Date: Sat, 02 Jun 2001 23:44:53 +0100 From: catman Subject: Re: Genital Mutilation - absolutely NJC I think most people do realise there is a difference in severity [between circumcision and female genital mutilation]. However both are wrong and one is not less wrong than the other. >> With all due respect, how can you say "one is not less wrong than the other?" Men who are circumcized are able to have full, healthy sex lives. Women who suffer genital mutilation suffer pain throughout their lives and are unable to enjoy sex. "Wrong" does have degrees. (Personally, I am undecided about whether circumcision is acceptable or not. On a related note, I will share that once, on a first date and over dinner, the guy made sure I knew that no son of his would ever be circumsized. Yes, he was rather an intense fellow.) - - Stacey ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 4 Jun 2001 01:01:55 EDT From: Stacey4882@aol.com Subject: Re: JMDL Digest V2001 #242 << Rock Troubadours: Conversations on the Art and Craft of Songwriting with Jerry Garcia, Ani DiFranco, Dave Matthews, Joni Mitchell, Paul Simon, and More_ Just wondering if anyone on list has read this book, which came out in December 2000? Sounds intriguing. I'm would certainly be interested in hearing what Joni had to say on the subject. >> Haven't read the book, but considering that it's by Jeffrey Pepper Rodgers, and knowing how wonderful his pieces are in the JM Companion, I bet this book is terrific. Plus, the author is a really nice guy (I had the chance to chat with him a little when I was putting together the Companion). - - Stacey (coming out of a long period of lurking, brought to sociability thanks to David Lahm's wonderful Jonifest....) ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 4 Jun 2001 01:47:09 EDT From: Murphycopy@aol.com Subject: Re: Cute Stevie quote about Joni Hi, Nikki: Here's a recent -- and similar -- quote from Stevie Nicks that a friend mailed to me last week. It's from an article in the May 20, 2001 New York Times magazine, credited to Liz Welch. In it, Stevie picked five favorite albums. The article, which was only a 1/3-page kind of sidebar thing, goes something like this: Five from Stevie Nicks Tuning In The singer picks the rock of an age What makes a rock 'n' roll album great? According to Stevie Nicks, the former Fleetwood Mac singer whose new solo album, "Trouble in Shangri-La," was released earlier this month and quickly entered the Billboard Top 10, the songs have to tell real stories. "If the lyrics are not saying something important," she says, "it's going to be a song that you like for a couple weeks and then never think about again." Here, Nicks lists the best rock 'n' roll albums from the 1970's and thereabouts. - -- Note from me -- The article then gives Stevie's impressions of the following albums: Jimi Hendrix, "Are You Experienced?" (1967) Crosby, Stills & Nash, "Crosby, Stills & Nash" (1969) Leon Russell, "Leon Russell" (1970) Led Zeppelin, "Led Zeppelin IV" (1971) - -- Another note from me -- Then the article ends with this: Joni Mitchell, "Court and Spark" (1974) "Nobody plays guitar like her. And the way she phrased -- she could put a whole bunch of words into one sentence and not make it sound crowded until you tried to sing along. Songs like 'Same Situation' tell the story of her rock 'n' roll life, which was mine too." - -- Me, again. I'm not a big Stevie fan (sorry, Nikki!), but I do have to admire her taste in other people's music. ;-) I'd be glad to send you my clipping, Nikki, if you want it. --Bob ------------------------------ End of JMDL Digest V2001 #243 ***************************** ------- Post messages to the list by clicking here: mailto:joni@smoe.org Unsubscribe by clicking here: mailto:joni-digest-request@smoe.org?body=unsubscribe ------- Siquomb, isn't she?