From: les@jmdl.com (JMDL Digest) To: joni-digest@smoe.org Subject: JMDL Digest V2001 #241 Reply-To: joni@smoe.org Sender: les@jmdl.com Errors-To: les@jmdl.com Precedence: bulk Unsubscribe: mailto:joni-digest-request@smoe.org?body=unsubscribe Archives: http://www.smoe.org/lists/joni Websites: http://www.jmdl.com http://www.jonimitchell.com JMDL Digest Saturday, June 2 2001 Volume 2001 : Number 241 The 'Official' Joni Mitchell Homepage, created by Wally Breese, can be found at http://www.jonimitchell.com. It contains the latest news, a detailed bio, Original Interviews, essays, lyrics and much much more. The JMDL website can be found at http://www.jmdl.com and contains interviews, articles, the member gallery, archives, and much more. Information on the 4th "Annual" New England JoniFest: http://www.jmdl.com/jfne2001.cfm The Joni Chat Room: http://www.jmdl.com/chat.cfm ========== TOPICS and authors in this Digest: -------- Re: Old Beale Street is coming down... [w evans ] Re: Joni itinerary [SCJoniGuy@aol.com] Re: joni the raging feminist [Susan McNamara ] Re: joni the raging feminist/more Chrissie Hynde (SJC) ["Brenda J. Walker] Re: joni the raging feminist/more Chrissie Hynde (SJC) [Susan McNamara ] Re: joni the raging feminist (md) [MDESTE1@aol.com] Re: joni the raging feminist/more Chrissie Hynde [Susan McNamara ] Re:Chrissie Hynde [Relayer211@aol.com] Re: joni the raging feminist/more Chrissie Hynde [Randy Remote ] NJC Re: joni the raging feminist/more Chrissie Hynde [catman ] Re: AbFab JB & Conversation ["Donna J. Binkley" ] Re: chryssie and carly [catman ] Canucks (NJC) ["Keith *" ] Re: more Chrissie Hynde/circumcision, etc. (NJC!) ["Brenda J. Walker" ] RE: Canucks (NJC) ["Wally Kairuz" ] ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Fri, 1 Jun 2001 08:26:36 -0400 (EDT) From: w evans Subject: Re: Old Beale Street is coming down... The major thought I had about Beale street was that 25 years ago it was likely a very different place that Joni saw than it is today... because then, like most big city old downtowns in the 70s and early 80s, it was a neglected place... and since then, like most others, it has seen a great infusion of money to preserve the historic place, and at the same time provide great money-making opportunities for gift shops and nightclubs. Today, Beale is party central in memphis, which means a bunch of drunk yuppies and tourists like steve and me.... and I wonder what joni would think of the place now. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 01 Jun 2001 09:07:50 EDT From: SCJoniGuy@aol.com Subject: Re: Joni itinerary <<'Here in Savannah it's pouring rain Palm trees in the porch light Like slick black cellophane'>> And here in Savanna, IL, it's ALSO pouring rain! Actually, I'm about 10 miles from Savanna, in Mt. Carroll, IL...16+ hours of driving over the past couple of days, past lots of farm land. Seeing all the old barns made me think of Joni & Larry's cross-country trip through Canada, stopping to photograph them and recording them on NRH. Great NY reports! Caps off to all of you who described the festivities with such detail! Thanks to all of you who have sent your love & kindness regarding my father-in-law. I'm passing them all to Valerie and she is very moved... Bob, stuck playing catch-up for the next couple of days... NP: relatives talking over coffee ;~) ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 1 Jun 2001 11:28:20 -0400 From: Susan McNamara Subject: Re: joni the raging feminist Yes, I think you are right. Hissing of Summer Lawns is definitely Joni's feminist statement, I would certainly agree with that. I really liked what one poster wrote about the conversation between Chrissy Hynde and kd lang. By being Chrissy she is ultimately a role model for women (as Joni is too obviously) but being a feminist means (to me anyway) that you believe in a political activism to combat patriarchy. Am I off base here? Teach me friends! take care, sue At 11:04 AM -0400 5/31/01, Relayer211@aol.com wrote: >In a message dated 5/31/01 9:52:59 AM Eastern Daylight Time, sem8@cornell.edu >writes: > ><< Her philosophies seem very power-oriented (in an > individualistic way [dogeatdog]). David Crosby said she was as shy > as Mussolini and Dylan called her a man!! :-) ha ha. She is > definitely not a feminist (in my opinion). >> > > That may be true. But it seems to me that songs like "Don't interrupt >the sorrow" and "not to blame" show her deep concern for women's issues. > ____________________ /____________________\ ||-------------------|| || Sue McNamara || || sem8@cornell.edu || ||___________________|| || O etch-a-sketch O || \___________________/ "It's all a dream she has awake" - Joni Mitchell ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 01 Jun 2001 09:36:10 -0700 From: "Brenda J. Walker" Subject: Re: joni the raging feminist/more Chrissie Hynde (SJC) For anyone who missed it, here is that k.d./Chrissie interview: http://home.macau.ctm.net/~tina71/articles/q.htm Chrissie also goes on to talk about other issues: "No, I'll tell you what's really gotten my goat lately. It's when I read that a sixteen-year-old girl has been shot dead on the streets of Algiers for not wearing her veil. When I hear that 5,000 women a day are having their genitals mutilated and their sexual organs removed altogether for the rest of their lives. And my question is: why is it when you suggest that rapists should be castrated - which makes absolutely perfect sense, and is a just answer to rape, and sound and compassionate - that most men are absolutely horrified? That's where I step in and say, 'OK you fuckers, I'm questioning it. Just like I'm going to question factory farming methods and the live exportation of calves.'" I don't know how much of an activist she is, but just by talking about things in interviews, she brings them to the attention of people who may never have known. Just as Joni does when she sings about issues in her songs. "The Magdalene Laundries" and her subsequent comments on the song in interviews is feminist activism in my book. (I know most of you have probably read these articles before, but they seem worth quoting in this context.) Joni from the Irish Times, February 6, 1999: "'The Magdalene Laundries song came about because I read that the Sisters of Our Lady of Charity, in Dublin, had sold off land which led to the discovery of graves marked `Magdelene of the Sorrows' or `Magdelene of the Tears' but didn't have the names of these women. And I could identify with that because when I was pregnant and looking for an institution to hide away in, I went to places like the Salvation Army and I was refused. I ended up living in the attic of a Chinese white slaver and, finally, was warned "get out of there, he's just waiting for you to give birth". It was fraught with peril; an attic room with no heat and half the banister rails gone, from the previous tenant burning them for warmth.'" http://www.jmdl.com/articles/docs/990226it.cfm Joni from Vanity Fair, June 1997: "One of the mixed blessings of being Joni Mitchell is that random fans want to praise her for such lines as 'I've looked at clouds from both sides now,' when the lyrics she's most proud of pass without comment. She is particularly partial to 'The Magdalene Laundries,' a song from Turbulent Indigo that describes Irish girls forced to do menial labor for sins ranging from having children out of wedlock to inspiring impure thoughts in men. I asked about an image from the song, the nuns described as 'bloodless brides of Jesus.' "'I carried that for a long time," she explained. 'There are images I carry for a long time before I find the artistic receptacle, the proper scenario to let them into. I never understood how the nuns could call themselves the brides of Jesus, the compassionate one, and be so hostile. I was sickly and in hospitals a lot as a kid. I'm not Catholic, but I had a lot of interaction with nuns in hospitals, and some of them were brutal, you know.'" http://www.jmdl.com/articles/docs/9706vf.cfm (Funny, Chrissie also makes an appearance in this article as well...) If this were to be the furthest extent of a celebrity's activism, I for one, would not mind. Brenda n.p. Glen Phillips - Men Just Leave Susan McNamara wrote: > > Yes, I think you are right. Hissing of Summer Lawns is definitely > Joni's feminist statement, I would certainly agree with that. I > really liked what one poster wrote about the conversation between > Chrissy Hynde and kd lang. By being Chrissy she is ultimately a role > model for women (as Joni is too obviously) but being a feminist means > (to me anyway) that you believe in a political activism to combat > patriarchy. Am I off base here? Teach me friends! > > take care, sue ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 1 Jun 2001 12:42:01 -0400 From: Susan McNamara Subject: Re: joni the raging feminist/more Chrissie Hynde (SJC) Good points, Brenda...and of course magdalene laundries (duh!). I agree, I guess I was just defending Joni's right not to be labeled, which she rails against constantly. Actually I'm not sure what I meant, but this is a great discussion for my aching brain cells. thanks, sue At 9:36 AM -0700 6/1/01, Brenda J. Walker wrote: >I don't know how much of an activist she is, but just by talking about >things in interviews, she brings them to the attention of people who may >never have known. Just as Joni does when she sings about issues in her >songs. "The Magdalene Laundries" and her subsequent comments on the >song in interviews is feminist activism in my book. > >If this were to be the furthest extent of a celebrity's activism, I for >one, would not mind. > >Brenda > >n.p. Glen Phillips - Men Just Leave ____________________ /____________________\ ||-------------------|| || Sue McNamara || || sem8@cornell.edu || ||___________________|| || O etch-a-sketch O || \___________________/ "It's all a dream she has awake" - Joni Mitchell ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 1 Jun 2001 12:52:54 -0400 (EDT) From: Catherine McKay Subject: Re: Old Beale Street is coming down... - --- w evans wrote: > The major thought I had about Beale street was that > 25 years ago it was > likely a very different place that Joni saw than it > is today... because > then, like most big city old downtowns in the 70s > and early 80s, it was a > neglected place... and since then, like most others, > it has seen a great > infusion of money to preserve the historic place, > and at the same time > provide great money-making opportunities for gift > shops and nightclubs. > Today, Beale is party central in memphis, which > means a bunch of drunk > yuppies and tourists like steve and me.... and I > wonder what joni would > think of the place now. Old Beale Street is gentrified Sweeties Snack Bars a bistro now Someone with a longer attention span, feel free to step in anytime now. Get your free @yahoo.ca address at http://mail.yahoo.ca ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 01 Jun 2001 09:57:01 -0700 From: "Brenda J. Walker" Subject: Re: joni the raging feminist/more Chrissie Hynde Yes, and I support you in defending her right to not be labeled. After all, who cares what we call ourselves as long as we do what moves our hearts, minds and souls? Brenda Susan McNamara wrote: > > Good points, Brenda...and of course magdalene laundries (duh!). I > agree, I guess I was just defending Joni's right not to be labeled, > which she rails against constantly. Actually I'm not sure what I > meant, but this is a great discussion for my aching brain cells. > thanks, sue > > At 9:36 AM -0700 6/1/01, Brenda J. Walker wrote: > >I don't know how much of an activist she is, but just by talking about > >things in interviews, she brings them to the attention of people who may > >never have known. Just as Joni does when she sings about issues in her > >songs. "The Magdalene Laundries" and her subsequent comments on the > >song in interviews is feminist activism in my book. > > > >If this were to be the furthest extent of a celebrity's activism, I for > >one, would not mind. > > > >Brenda > > > >n.p. Glen Phillips - Men Just Leave > ____________________ > /____________________\ > ||-------------------|| > || Sue McNamara || > || sem8@cornell.edu || > ||___________________|| > || O etch-a-sketch O || > \___________________/ > > > > "It's all a dream she has awake" - Joni Mitchell ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 01 Jun 2001 09:57:19 -0700 From: "Brenda J. Walker" Subject: Re: joni the raging feminist/more Chrissie Hynde For anyone who missed it, here is that k.d./Chrissie interview: http://home.macau.ctm.net/~tina71/articles/q.htm Chrissie also goes on to talk about other issues: "No, I'll tell you what's really gotten my goat lately. It's when I read that a sixteen-year-old girl has been shot dead on the streets of Algiers for not wearing her veil. When I hear that 5,000 women a day are having their genitals mutilated and their sexual organs removed altogether for the rest of their lives. And my question is: why is it when you suggest that rapists should be castrated - which makes absolutely perfect sense, and is a just answer to rape, and sound and compassionate - that most men are absolutely horrified? That's where I step in and say, 'OK you fuckers, I'm questioning it. Just like I'm going to question factory farming methods and the live exportation of calves.'" I don't know how much of an activist she is, but just by talking about things in interviews, she brings them to the attention of people who may never have known. Just as Joni does when she sings about issues in her songs. "The Magdalene Laundries" and her subsequent comments on the song in interviews is feminist activism in my book. (I know most of you have probably read these articles before, but they seem worth quoting in this context.) Joni from the Irish Times, February 6, 1999: "'The Magdalene Laundries song came about because I read that the Sisters of Our Lady of Charity, in Dublin, had sold off land which led to the discovery of graves marked `Magdelene of the Sorrows' or `Magdelene of the Tears' but didn't have the names of these women. And I could identify with that because when I was pregnant and looking for an institution to hide away in, I went to places like the Salvation Army and I was refused. I ended up living in the attic of a Chinese white slaver and, finally, was warned "get out of there, he's just waiting for you to give birth". It was fraught with peril; an attic room with no heat and half the banister rails gone, from the previous tenant burning them for warmth.'" http://www.jmdl.com/articles/docs/990226it.cfm Joni from Vanity Fair, June 1997: "One of the mixed blessings of being Joni Mitchell is that random fans want to praise her for such lines as 'I've looked at clouds from both sides now,' when the lyrics she's most proud of pass without comment. She is particularly partial to 'The Magdalene Laundries,' a song from Turbulent Indigo that describes Irish girls forced to do menial labor for sins ranging from having children out of wedlock to inspiring impure thoughts in men. I asked about an image from the song, the nuns described as 'bloodless brides of Jesus.' "'I carried that for a long time," she explained. 'There are images I carry for a long time before I find the artistic receptacle, the proper scenario to let them into. I never understood how the nuns could call themselves the brides of Jesus, the compassionate one, and be so hostile. I was sickly and in hospitals a lot as a kid. I'm not Catholic, but I had a lot of interaction with nuns in hospitals, and some of them were brutal, you know.'" http://www.jmdl.com/articles/docs/9706vf.cfm (Funny, Chrissie also makes an appearance in this article as well...) If this were to be the furthest extent of a celebrity's activism, I for one, would not mind. Brenda n.p. Glen Phillips - Men Just Leave Susan McNamara wrote: > > Yes, I think you are right. Hissing of Summer Lawns is definitely > Joni's feminist statement, I would certainly agree with that. I > really liked what one poster wrote about the conversation between > Chrissy Hynde and kd lang. By being Chrissy she is ultimately a role > model for women (as Joni is too obviously) but being a feminist means > (to me anyway) that you believe in a political activism to combat > patriarchy. Am I off base here? Teach me friends! > > take care, sue ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 01 Jun 2001 14:09:29 -0400 From: Jerry Notaro Subject: a quote Joni would like "there are two refuges from the miseries of life: music and cats." -- albert schweitzer ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 01 Jun 2001 15:37:56 EDT From: MDESTE1@aol.com Subject: Re: joni the raging feminist (md) >>>but being a feminist means (to me anyway) that you believe in a political activism to combat patriarchy.>>> Following this thread with great interest although mostly as a lurker. This comment however I thought explained why Joni made the statement that she did. If one assumes that by simply being labeled something that need to or must or "have to" go a certain distance by subjective judgement then thats probably why she doesnt want to be lumped into the morass of the political issue as this statement implies she would be compelled to do. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 1 Jun 2001 15:49:35 -0400 From: Susan McNamara Subject: Re: joni the raging feminist/more Chrissie Hynde Yes, it's like that old story from the Bible where a father asks his two sons to do something and the one son says "Sure!" and then doesn't do it, and the other son says "No way, you can't tell me what to do" and then goes and does what his father asks him to do anyway. [obviously a great deal of paraphrasing going on here!!!!!] take care, sue At 9:57 AM -0700 6/1/01, Brenda J. Walker wrote: >Yes, and I support you in defending her right to not be labeled. > >After all, who cares what we call ourselves as long as we do what moves >our hearts, minds and souls? > >Brenda ____________________ /____________________\ ||-------------------|| || Sue McNamara || || sem8@cornell.edu || ||___________________|| || O etch-a-sketch O || \___________________/ "It's all a dream she has awake" - Joni Mitchell ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 01 Jun 2001 16:40:36 EDT From: JRMCo1@aol.com Subject: Re: a quote Joni would like NJC "No excellent soul is exempt from a mixture of madness." - -Aristotle - --- Jerry Notaro wrote: > "there are two refuges from the miseries of life: > music and cats." -- albert schweitzer ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 01 Jun 2001 21:47:44 +0100 From: catman Subject: Re: joni the raging feminist/more Chrissie Hynde > When I hear that 5,000 women a day are > having their genitals mutilated male children have their gentials mutilated daily here and all over the world. No one cares and in fact support it despite there being no need for this barbaric act which damages the penis and leaves it insensitve in comaprison. It is also done without aneasthetic. > and their sexual organs removed > altogether for the rest of their lives. And my question is: why is it > when you suggest that rapists should be castrated castrated will not stop a man getting an arection not will it prevent violent acts of sexual abuse. if it did, i'd say do it. By pointing thes things out it does not mean I disagree with Chryssie-just that it isn't females who get mutilated and that castration is not the answer. Life without parole for suxal abusers works. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 1 Jun 2001 13:45:08 -0700 (PDT) From: Susan Guzzi Subject: AbFab JB & Conversation Kerry wrote: > Hell's recent post about Absolutely Fabulous prompted me to write to Comedy Central. They said that there will be 6 new episodes slated to air (in the states) starting in November! It will be a good cure for post-Joni fest depression! NOW I have something to live for! I have a crush on Edina and I need an ABFAB fix. So funny, I recently started from the beginning of the series and have been playing an episode almost every night for the last 2 weeks only a few to go. I would rather watch them all over again then watch reruns of the prime time shows. Of course I have the entire collection. Well it's been awhile but I have surfaced! I realize this is old news but I had to give a holler! Just a note about the JB & Coke. JB used to be considered a pretty good scotch back in the 80's, but now since the unblended & "single malts" have become so in vogue, good old JB has taken a back seat in the world of Scotches. Awhile back there was some discussion about Joni tunes that could be done in a "Jazz" style and I recall someone saying they could not imagine a jazz version of Conversation. Ever since then it has been in my head of course in a jazz format. I'm thinking in a kind of scat run-on sort of style - much like Twisted. It also brings up memories of a jazz tune "One Note Samba." Anyway I just wanted to throw that out for all of you to gnaw on for a while and see if it stirs anything up or gives us ideas for other Joni songs and/or styles. I have not really tried these out loud but I do hear them in my head amongst all the others in here with me! Peace Susan Get personalized email addresses from Yahoo! Mail - only $35 a year! http://personal.mail.yahoo.com/ ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 1 Jun 2001 17:26:58 EDT From: Relayer211@aol.com Subject: Re:Chrissie Hynde Speaking of Chrissie Hynde,did anyone read the article in the JM companion about her physical fight with Carly Simon? In other accounts I've read, the fight was even worse...I can't believe grown people can be so childish! I know we've discussed this topic before, but that's still how I feel. I hope Hynde is at least regretful about that pathetic incident. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 01 Jun 2001 14:52:38 -0700 From: Randy Remote Subject: Re: joni the raging feminist/more Chrissie Hynde Absolutely true and a good (circumsized) point! Another example of barbaric activity based on cultural &/or religious tradition. A little evolution seems to be in order. RR catman wrote: > > When I hear that 5,000 women a day are > > having their genitals mutilated > > male children have their gentials mutilated daily here and all over the > world. No one cares and in fact support it despite there being no need for > this barbaric act which damages the penis and leaves it insensitve in > comaprison. It is also done without aneasthetic. > > > and their sexual organs removed > > altogether for the rest of their lives. And my question is: why is it > > when you suggest that rapists should be castrated > > castrated will not stop a man getting an arection not will it prevent > violent acts of sexual abuse. if it did, i'd say do it. > > By pointing thes things out it does not mean I disagree with Chryssie-just > that it isn't females who get mutilated and that castration is not the > answer. Life without parole for suxal abusers works. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 01 Jun 2001 23:42:27 +0100 From: catman Subject: correction NJC > By pointing thes things out it does not mean I disagree with Chryssie-just > that it isn't (the word JUST should be here!) > females who get mutilated and that castration is not the > answer. Life without parole for suxal abusers works. - -- bw colin BRO GC, 950i 940,864, 260, 890,Silver 830 and 270, Passap 6000 Duo80 colin@tantra.fsbusiness.co.uk http://www.geocities.com/tantra_apso/index.html ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 01 Jun 2001 23:44:47 +0100 From: catman Subject: NJC Re: joni the raging feminist/more Chrissie Hynde Randy Remote wrote: > Absolutely true and a good (circumsized) point! > Another example of barbaric activity based on cultural &/or > religious tradition. A little evolution seems to be in order. > RR > Unfortunately you are in a very small minority who recognize this for what it is-child abuse. It baffles me that otherwise sane and caring people not only support this but allow it to be done to their own children. appalling. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 01 Jun 2001 23:49:29 +0100 From: catman Subject: chryssie and carly It happened at The Fez. Chryssie attacked Carly. I saw a longish documentary about this woman and thought she was obnoxious and immature. She spoke about letting her son tajke drugs and we are not talking pot. She came across as very arrogant, rude, self centred and someone who one would cross the street to avoid.(it could be that she was heavily into drugs or soemthing or that something else was going on for her that made her as she was at that point. she could be a really nice balanced person now) I don't often take such a dislike to someone but that interview did it for me.(Oh and I didn't know anything about the future Fez thing either!) - -- bw colin BRO GC, 950i 940,864, 260, 890,Silver 830 and 270, Passap 6000 Duo80 colin@tantra.fsbusiness.co.uk http://www.geocities.com/tantra_apso/index.html ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 01 Jun 2001 21:25:06 GMT From: "Donna J. Binkley" Subject: Re: AbFab JB & Conversation Susan Guzzi writes: > Kerry wrote: > >> Hell's recent post about Absolutely Fabulous > prompted me to write to Comedy Central. They said > that there will be 6 new episodes slated to air > (in the states) starting in November! It will be a > good cure for post-Joni fest depression! > > NOW I have something to live for! I have a crush on > Edina and I need an ABFAB fix. So funny, I recently > started from the beginning of the series and have been > playing an episode almost every night for the last 2 > weeks only a few to go. I would rather watch them all > over again then watch reruns of the prime time shows. > Of course I have the entire collection. > > Well it's been awhile but I have surfaced! I realize > this is old news but I had to give a holler! > > Just a note about the JB & Coke. JB used to be > considered a pretty good scotch back in the 80's, but > now since the unblended & "single malts" have become > so in vogue, good old JB has taken a back seat in the > world of Scotches. > > Awhile back there was some discussion about Joni tunes > that could be done in a "Jazz" style and I recall > someone saying they could not imagine a jazz version > of Conversation. Ever since then it has been in my > head of course in a jazz format. I'm thinking in a > kind of scat run-on sort of style - much like Twisted. > It also brings up memories of a jazz tune "One Note > Samba." Anyway I just wanted to throw that out for > all of you to gnaw on for a while and see if it stirs > anything up or gives us ideas for other Joni songs > and/or styles. I have not really tried these out loud > but I do hear them in my head amongst all the others > in here with me! > Peace > Susan Dear Susan: I can't wait to hear your version of Conversation!! Vocalize that soon, please, i think our fellow jmdl'ers will agree. Personally, that has always been one of my favorite songs from this record because of the raw heart of it - not unlike the rest of LOTC - but's that's my favorite of the album. I wish we could jam right now. donna > Get personalized email addresses from Yahoo! Mail - ..only $35 > a year! http://personal.mail.yahoo.com/ ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 02 Jun 2001 01:28:58 +0100 From: catman Subject: Re: chryssie and carly If either of them got into such a ridiculous situation I'd pick niether and go off them both rather rapidly. jan gyn wrote: > Who would you pick in a fight between Joni and Carly? > -jan - -- bw colin BRO GC, 950i 940,864, 260, 890,Silver 830 and 270, Passap 6000 Duo80 colin@tantra.fsbusiness.co.uk http://www.geocities.com/tantra_apso/index.html ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 02 Jun 2001 00:32:34 -0000 From: "Keith *" Subject: Canucks (NJC) >most Americans are barely aware Canada even exists as a separate nation. But they're perfectly correct: Canada hardly exists as a separate nation. Keith - ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 01 Jun 2001 18:00:41 -0700 From: "Brenda J. Walker" Subject: Re: more Chrissie Hynde/circumcision, etc. (NJC!) I agree that circumcision and clitorectomy share a similar air of cultural/social atrocity. Both should be discussed openly and people should be educated to encourage paradigm shifts where possible, while likewise respecting cultural heritage. As far as Chrissie's comment about castration, while I certainly don't propose that it is a suitable punishment for violent sexual crime, I do find intriguing the dichotomy of male genitalia being at once reverred and rejected by Western cultures - castration is an abomination but circumcision is an accepted surgical procedure and a ritual, holy act - at least in the eyes of most people, who as you've pointed out do not share your view of it as abuse. Regarding Chrissie herself, well, she sort of reminds me of John Lydon (Johnny Rotten). I spent a dinner with Lydon at my boss' house and I can certainly say that his antics/attitudes are a part of the punk/post-punk rock and roll act. Although meeting Chrissie was brief, she certainly expressed her thoughts intelligently. But she was not in a public forum which may explain quite a bit. I'm not excusing her behavior, but I can certainly say that I was not interested in crossing the street when I met her. Brenda catman wrote: > > > When I hear that 5,000 women a day are > > having their genitals mutilated > > male children have their gentials mutilated daily here and all over the > world. No one cares and in fact support it despite there being no need for > this barbaric act which damages the penis and leaves it insensitve in > comaprison. It is also done without aneasthetic. > > > and their sexual organs removed > > altogether for the rest of their lives. And my question is: why is it > > when you suggest that rapists should be castrated > > castrated will not stop a man getting an arection not will it prevent > violent acts of sexual abuse. if it did, i'd say do it. > > By pointing thes things out it does not mean I disagree with Chryssie-just > that it isn't females who get mutilated and that castration is not the > answer. Life without parole for suxal abusers works. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 01 Jun 2001 23:59:57 -0700 From: Michael Paz Subject: Re: njc Pat Don't tell me you have a thing for Puerto Rican women with big tits too?? That's so "five minutes ago". Right now the tend is for short white women with champagne tits. Best, Paz P.S. Have a great weekend everyone. on 5/29/01 6:28 PM, PMcfad@aol.com at PMcfad@aol.com wrote: > aside from that, i'm still wondering about the big titted woman paz spoke of > who was tearing up nyc. made me think of a song...last time i saw consuela. > ciao. pat ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 2 Jun 2001 03:10:55 -0300 From: "Wally Kairuz" Subject: RE: Canucks (NJC) that's an interesting pint, keith. could you elaborate? wallyK - -----Mensaje original----- De: owner-joni@jmdl.com [mailto:owner-joni@jmdl.com]En nombre de Keith * Enviado el: Viernes, 01 de Junio de 2001 09:33 p.m. Para: joni@smoe.org Asunto: Canucks (NJC) >most Americans are barely aware Canada even exists as a separate nation. But they're perfectly correct: Canada hardly exists as a separate nation. Keith - ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com. ------------------------------ End of JMDL Digest V2001 #241 ***************************** ------- Post messages to the list by clicking here: mailto:joni@smoe.org Unsubscribe by clicking here: mailto:joni-digest-request@smoe.org?body=unsubscribe ------- Siquomb, isn't she?