From: les@jmdl.com (JMDL Digest) To: joni-digest@smoe.org Subject: JMDL Digest V2001 #210 Reply-To: joni@smoe.org Sender: les@jmdl.com Errors-To: les@jmdl.com Precedence: bulk Unsubscribe: mailto:joni-digest-request@smoe.org?body=unsubscribe Archives: http://www.smoe.org/lists/joni Websites: http://www.jmdl.com http://www.jonimitchell.com JMDL Digest Monday, May 7 2001 Volume 2001 : Number 210 The 'Official' Joni Mitchell Homepage, created by Wally Breese, can be found at http://www.jonimitchell.com. It contains the latest news, a detailed bio, Original Interviews, essays, lyrics and much much more. The JMDL website can be found at http://www.jmdl.com and contains interviews, articles, the member gallery, archives, and much more. Information on the 4th "Annual" New England JoniFest: http://www.jmdl.com/jfne2001.cfm The Joni Chat Room: http://www.jmdl.com/chat.cfm ========== TOPICS and authors in this Digest: -------- burton cummings njc [evian ] Re: Shame on the list. ["hell" ] Re: Shame on the list. [catman ] JoniMitchell.com's new email address [Jim Johanson ] Re: Shame on the list. [byron bentley ] Re: Top 20 Guitarists et al [Bobsart48@aol.com] Top 20 Guitarists et al now NJC [Vince Lavieri ] one degree of separation from Aretha? NJC ["kerry" ] Re: Shawn rarity with Joni content [Jerry Notaro ] Re: Covers - I am 16, going on 17!! [FMYFL@aol.com] Facelift [CHRIS TREACY ] Re: Shame on the list. ["Mark or Travis" ] Re: Prince and Joni (md) [MDESTE1@aol.com] Re: Covers - I am 16, going on 17!! ["Mark or Travis" ] "Speachless" ["Craig" ] RE: "Speachless" ["Deb Messling" ] Mid-West Joni Fest ["kerry" ] Re: "Speachless" [mags ] njc-ken nordine [Kammass@aol.com] Re: njc-ken nordine [RoseMJoy@aol.com] RE: Top 20 Guitarists et al ["Nikki Johnson" ] Re: Jonifest update: the list!!! [AsharaJM@aol.com] RE: Question for Stevie Nicks folks only njc ["Nikki Johnson" ] Re: njc-ken nordine [Randy Remote ] Re: Shame on the list. [Randy Remote ] Border Crossings interview [Les Irvin ] Re: Border Crossings interview ["Robert Holliston" Subject: burton cummings njc LOL, oh Burton Cummings..... He was in town here about 2 years ago playing at the Casino, and I hear that he got all drunk and surly after his show, and got mad at a friend of mine (she's a dealer) because he was losing, and he supposedly started yelling at her and told her she was a shitty dealer. However, my friend is always exaggerating, so who the hell knows... The Guess Who did a big reunion thing in Canada last summer (I think it was last summer) and they seemed to sell out all over the place in minutes (don't ask me why, since I can't really stand them, but I admit, I tend to hum along when I hear them, especially "These Eyes"). Anyhoooo, I believe they made the cover of McLeans with this reunion thing, and my friends in Winnipeg went to see them last summer and said it was crazy -- people were freaking out. So, in Canada anyway, they are still a big deal apparently, in certain quarters. Frankly, I'd rather have an Anne Murray, or a Rough Trade, comeback, but I'm dreaming. By the way, fellow Cannucks --- we had this debate at work one day (we all listen to the local oldies AM station, because, well.... we all live in the past) and we were trying to figure out what the hell ole Burton meant in "Break it to them gently" from that solo-album-that-refuses-to-die-that-sold-millions from the 70's, when he kept saying "gotta roll it to my grandma, gotta roll the old lady". LOL, it started a two day email debate last summer. Evian, still babyless at the moment. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 6 May 2001 20:45:50 +1200 From: "hell" Subject: Re: Shame on the list. John wrote: > I'm a little surprised that early Joni (mid-Joni?) has so clearly won > out with the vocal majority. Of course, if lurkers to the issue like > myself stood up to be counted, the voting would probably change. > > I'm surprised that such a sweeping group that "gets" Joni, compared to > the general public, would in the end obsess over her earlier work. I > refuse to believe the finest of her music ended with Hejira. --And to > think we wonder why the general public thinks she died after her > folk-rock days???? I find it almost impossible to say which period of Joni's life produced the best work, simply because she's changed styles and influences so many times. How can you compare STAS and DJRD, for example? Two pieces of work, which although both brilliant (that kind of goes without saying), are at opposite ends of the spectrum, as far as I'm concerned. If her style (for want of a better word) had stayed the same throughout her career, it would be far easier to select two or three albums as her best. But I find trying to compare all of them a pretty impossible, and to be honest, fruitless task. Let's just admit that they're all great, and move on! And for the record, I don't have a favourite period, since my three favourite albums (today, that is) are HOSL, NRH and TTT (with Blue, FTR and WTRF close behind). So there. Hell ____________________________ "To have great poets, there must be great audiences too." - Walt Whitman hell@ihug.co.nz Hell's Personal Photo Page: http://homepages.ihug.co.nz/~hell/main/personal.htm Visit the NBLs (Natural Born Losers) at: http://www.nbls.co.nz ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 06 May 2001 09:48:29 +0100 From: catman Subject: Re: Shame on the list. Richard Rice wrote: > Wow, > > I'm a little surprised that early Joni (mid-Joni?) has so clearly won > out with the vocal majority. Of course, if lurkers to the issue like > myself stood up to be counted, the voting would probably change. > > I'm surprised that such a sweeping group that "gets" Joni, compared to > the general public, would in the end obsess over her earlier work. I > refuse to believe the finest of her music ended with Hejira. --And to > think we wonder why the general public thinks she died after her > folk-rock days???? > I agree with you,. I have been rather surprised to be reading the posts of late about this. I think people don't really mean she peaked with Hejira. Do they? That was 25 years ago. Has she wasted her time since? Don't think so! bw colin ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 06 May 2001 01:50:29 -0700 From: Jim Johanson Subject: JoniMitchell.com's new email address Hi all, Since a lot of pals here send mail to me directly (as opposed to through jm.com's links) I wanted to make sure you all know about my new email address (Rose, of course, found out first -- she's always on the job). I've decided to gradually extricate myself from the semi-evil clutches of AOL and dive into the hopefully not so semi-evil clutches of Mindspring.com. The new address: mosalm@mindspring.com. (Poor Mosalm doesn't seem to get enough airplay). With luck, it'll help to minimize the implication that messages can be sent directly to Joni through the site. I get tons of "Dear Joni" messages from people (mostly more casual non-listers, I think) who don't read the disclaimer; I always feel sorry that I can't be more helpful when I receive their heartfelt messages. The only problem so far is that I keep typing "moslem" instead of "mosalm." I wonder if there are people scratching their heads in a mosque somewhere because they've suddenly started receiving messages with questions about Joni Mitchell! Next up: A long-overdue news item about David Lahm's wonderful CD, an update to the "Covered By" list (courtesy of Bob -- who could do better?) hopefully more info about Harbourfront (if anybody hears any news, PLEASE drop me a line!), and, finally, a much more comprehensive Record of Appearances, kudos to simon (alas, just a list for now, I'll try to make it searchable at some point). Sorry everything's so slow in coming. I'm not as adept at juggling my time as I'd like to be, life getting in the way and all that. Next couple of weeks, promise. I'm typing as fast as I can! Finally, I want to thank the many people on the list who have made very generous donations to "the cause" lately (with endless thanks to Ashara for holding it all together and keeping me sane). I couldn't keep this going without you! jj ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 6 May 2001 21:00:39 +1200 From: "hell" Subject: Plastic surgery Sorry to open up this can of worms again, but I had a very interesting conversation tonight at my 10-pin bowling league. On the opposite team was David Hartnell, who is "world famous in New Zealand" as someone who has hob-nobbed with some of the biggest names in Hollywood. He is now a celebrity journalist, and has interviewed hundreds of stars. Anyway, I was wearing my new Joni t-shirt, and he asked me what Siquomb meant. He used to be a Hollywood make-up artist, and he said he used to see, and chat to Joni quite often when he lived in Brentwood. He then said, "I'm sure she's had some cosmetic work done, particularly around the eyes." I then said that she'd denied it (although I may be wrong there), and his response was, "Take it from someone who's been doing make-up for thirty-odd years, she's definitely had some work done - beautiful woman though, and looking fantastic for her age." So take it however you will, but knowing his reputation and experience, I'm inclined to take his word for it! Hell - who bowled terribly tonight. Awful. And now my knee and finger hurt. A LOT. ____________________________ "To have great poets, there must be great audiences too." - Walt Whitman hell@ihug.co.nz Hell's Personal Photo Page: http://homepages.ihug.co.nz/~hell/main/personal.htm Visit the NBLs (Natural Born Losers) at: http://www.nbls.co.nz ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 06 May 2001 02:37:38 -0700 From: byron bentley Subject: Re: Shame on the list. Richard Rice wrote: > I refuse to believe the finest of her music ended with Hejira. I couldn't agree with you more. > Do I think Joan's peak is behind her? Actually, I do. Not behind her in > the sense of quality, just that I can't picture her putting out 3 or 4 > more original recordings at this stage in her life. I couldn't agree with you less. At least I hope you're wrong. Joni is a pioneer at her craft. Whatever she does will set the precedent for all that follow. I see no reason why Joni should become stifled by age. Haven't you ever seen Harold & Maude? Ruth Gordon is a regular spitfire in that vehicle. If your not listening to Jimmy Scott, you're missing out. He's kissin' 80, at least, and his new release is incredible. As long as Joni has the ability to just whisper the line "something's lost, but something's gained in living every day," I plan to be there to hear it again. Perhaps Joni will rework her lyrics to fit the stage of her life "There is the hope and the hopelessness I've witnessed 90 years." Better yet, maybe she will have something new to say. You know those old people say the damnedest things sometimes. I can't wait!!! > . -Thank god Joni's NOT on the list. She'd take our top 10 as > fightin' words. Thank God "god's" not on the list. I love the way you capitalize Joni, but not God. You're not only a major Joni Mitchell fan, but you demonstrate a complete lack of fear. We need that on the list :-D Byron ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 6 May 2001 11:22:23 EDT From: Bobsart48@aol.com Subject: Re: Top 20 Guitarists et al Yesteday I wrote: I have been lurking on and off for last month or two. Would like to post a response and some info. I remember reading about 'how to'' but do not remember the guide and what rules to remember following - would you please direct me to site ? In the immortal words of Roberto De Vicenzo - " I am a stupid". My first confession out of the way, I would like to add one more - but first a sighting. While falling asleep to VH1 the other night (not that I do that very often) I ran across what is probably an old Top 20 show on the "top 20 guitarists of rock and roll". Joni made the list at number 18 or so. Now the other 19 on that list could sit down and play her songs in no time flat, but I doubt that she could play any of theirs without a great deal of time and practice (and in many cases, "jamais"). I believe this because even I can play Joni's songs - now that I have the JMDL guitar tab data base to work from :-) - but I could not hope to do what those others do. Do they call this "transferrance " in psych ? (I know nothing about Psych). At first I thought that maybe they the VH1 poll was paying homage to her use of multiple alternate tunings - and to the contribution that has made to future exploration of the guitar as an instrument. But as I recall (I was dozing off until I heard 'the name' ) they did not spend any significant time dwelling on that. Could it be that after all those years of underappreciation by the liberal media, that they are now employing affirmative action as an approach to making up for the indignities of past oversights and other similar slights to Joni ? ;-) Oops - no time now for the other confession - by the way, when one posts a confession on the list, does the Reverand Vince mete out the penance ? I need to know, cause the next sin's pretty bad. :-) ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 06 May 2001 11:38:21 -0400 From: Vince Lavieri Subject: Top 20 Guitarists et al now NJC Bobsart48@aol.com wrote: > Oops - no time now for the other confession - by the way, when one posts a > confession on the list, does the Reverand Vince mete out the penance ? I need > to know, cause the next sin's pretty bad. :-) I suspect that (the Rev) Vince does not believe in penance and thinks that too often people are trapped in guilt. I also suspect that (the Rev) Vince believes in grace and all renewal and re-creation and would quote Martin Luther in saying, "sin boldly," And I suspect that you are very lucky to have gotten a very brief answer, especially in this question was asked on a Sunday morning to be found when (the Rev) Vince has just gotten home from Sunday services, and is, so to speak, still are revved up and ready to preach another sermon! ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 6 May 2001 11:05:22 -0500 From: "kerry" Subject: one degree of separation from Aretha? NJC The Rev V. wrote: >>I have done my Aretha Franklin impressions for her sister Erma, in a dorm room, dancing on a bed, at Western Michigan University. >> Last year, one of the kids in my Kindergarten class' mom' name was Aretha Franklin. I asked her about it and it turned out that she's related to her, was named after her (obviously) and met her several times when she was a child. I guess Aretha stopped in Milwaukee from time to time for family get-togethers! Who knew? Kerry NP - Amy Ray - Lucystoners ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 06 May 2001 12:20:54 -0400 From: Jerry Notaro Subject: Re: Shawn rarity with Joni content Kakki wrote: > NP: Shawn Colvin - Can't Find My Way Home (ahhhh, one of my all-time > favorites songs -stunning!) Oh god. My first cd purchase because it was my favorite song. The girl on the cover is probably 45 by now! Anyway, "Include me in," I'll trade, burn, tree, whatever to get a copy of this live Shawn. I have some other good live Shawn, also. Jerry ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 06 May 2001 17:37:47 +0100 From: "Rob Ettridge" Subject: Prince and Joni The thought of Joni and Prince collaborating is confusing my little brain at the moment. I certainly can't see her doing one of his songs, but then I can't imagine what a song they wrote together would be like either. Hmmm... Anyway, in strange synchronicity, when I got this mail I was listening to Prince's 'Controversy' album from 1981. I looked down at the sleeve, and noticed the word 'Joni' in big bold letters. How did I never notice this before? For those of you not familiar with the album sleeve, it's made up of front pages from 'The Controversy Daily', such as 'Free Food Stamps for Good Samaritans' and 'Annie Christian Sentenced to Die!', some of which fit in themes of the songs. The only one which isn't a headline is one with Joni's name and a star either side of it. Surely a nod to her influence (though I can't really hear it on this album). Rob _________________________________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 6 May 2001 13:31:10 EDT From: FMYFL@aol.com Subject: Re: Covers - I am 16, going on 17!! I've had a chance to listen to Cover's # 17 a few times this morning, and besides thanking Bob and the Contributors (great band name :~) ), I'd like to put my 2 cents worth on some of the songs from yet another great covers CD. I like Peggy Chew's voice okay, but the jazz instrumentals is what I found to be most outstanding on "Chelsea Morning" and "The Dry Cleaner From Des Moines" I think Nat Raider is really Herb Alpert playing at a retirement home on this "BSN" arrangement. Wear some sensible shoes and everyone pick a partner :~) Jack Donahue singing "Little Green" - major orgasm!!!! This guy must be related to Kenny Rankin. What a beautiful, clean, and dreamy voice. This rendition brought tears to my eyes. I'd love to hear more from this great find! Del Beazley's "BYT" is very Jimmy Buffet-like, and The Care Package's "Woodstock" made me want to put on a head band, get out my black light, and say "groovie man" :~) As for Phyllis Newman "BSN", I think she should go back to being a panelist on "To Tell The Truth" (sorry Jerry, maybe I shouldn't judge her from this one song) Steve Goldberger & the Fringe Locals "YTMOIA radio" : at first I thought it was it was the intro to Mellancamp's "Jack and Diane", then the first line of the song he sounds like Dylan. As I listened to the rest of the song, Steve comes into his own, and does a great job of singing a difficult song. Orlando "BSN" : This is one of the more unusual versions of BSN. He has a good voice and plays a mean harp. He did scare me when I thought the song was over, and comes back with a loud "TEARS and FEARS". I tell ya, I've never heard BSN belted out this way. There would not be anyone sleeping at a wedding ceremony when he finishes up this song. He *really* doesn't know {{{{{ CLOUDS, LIFE, LOVE AAATTTTTTTTT AAAAAAALLLLLLL }}}}}} I really did like it though. :~) Steve Polifka, the JMDL's beautiful voice from Milwaukee does a fantastic job on "Man From Mars". I was privileged enough for my buddy Steve to send me this single a few months back. He puts his heart and soul into everything he plays and sings. MFM is no exception, and Steve shows his great talents once again. Now if we can get his "Two Grey Rooms" on one of the covers, I'll be a happy camper. Okay, I've given my 22 cents worth and I only meant to comment on a few of the covers.........I got carried away :~) Seriously, thanks again to Bob for his ongoing efforts to a very time consuming project. Thanks to the all the people who find and send these goodies to Bob. Jimmy ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 6 May 2001 10:47:00 -0700 (PDT) From: CHRIS TREACY Subject: Facelift Way Back When, I brought this topic up because of a statement my mother made after seeing Joni & Carlos on the Grammys; Since then, my mother has had HER facelift (and is recovering VERY slowly, as she suffered a facial hemotoma during the early healing stages...and can only broadcast from bed on the speaker phone...I find this all TERRIBLY amusing!), but I told her the sort of response I'd received from this list. Being more objective than us as a lot of devotees, she just snickered, pointing out that we're all in denial because plastic surgery would tarnish our vision of Joan. Either way, it's interesting to me to get a doctor's opinion. Chris NP: "Plastic Smile" - Black Uhuru @ Reggae Sunsplash '81 ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 6 May 2001 10:56:29 -0700 From: "Mark or Travis" Subject: Re: Shame on the list. > Wow, > > I'm a little surprised that early Joni (mid-Joni?) has so clearly won > out with the vocal majority. Of course, if lurkers to the issue like > myself stood up to be counted, the voting would probably change. > > I'm surprised that such a sweeping group that "gets" Joni, compared to > the general public, would in the end obsess over her earlier work. I > refuse to believe the finest of her music ended with Hejira. Speaking from experience, John, you will find that the Hejira adherents are a stubborn bunch and nothing you say will convince them that Hejira is not the peak of Joni's output. Heaven knows I've tried (as most of them can attest.) Personally I agree with just about everything you wrote. I think Hejira is an amazing work but I also think it's scope is narrow compared to some of Joni's other efforts (it is almost entirely Joni on Joni - not a bad thing considering the quality & depth of her self-examination, but nonetheless) and I also find it rather monochromatic. I would rather listen to either Night Ride Home or Taming the Tiger, myself. I love Turbulent Indigo but it's too dark for me to listen to it very often. Still, the depth & scope of TI far surpassed Hejira, imo. > > Early Joni strikes a chord in us for various reasons: Certain songs were > our Joni intro. Her music at the time was in syncronicity to the general > music of the times. The themes relate to our own experiences on a more > personal level. And then, there's the issue of nostalgia. I think there's a lot to what you say here. I also think there's something to be said for familiarity playing a part. Some of us bought Hejira 25 years ago when it first came out. By now it's become an old friend. It's familiar and comforting. And I suspect it also reminds us of a time when life seemed more of an adventure than it does now. Joni was a big part of my experience back when I was in my 20s. Although life is very good in many ways now, I do admit that I sometimes miss that excitement of discovery and also the relative 'freedom' of being unattached and not having 'a mortgage & a lawn to mow'... > Do I think Joan's peak is behind her? Actually, I do. Not behind her in > the sense of quality, just that I can't picture her putting out 3 or 4 > more original recordings at this stage in her life. And here I have to disagree. I'm still wondering what exactly happened with Joni after the release of Taming the Tiger. When that record was still in the works she was making comments about being at the top of her game and having a lot of songs still in her. Taming the Tiger has some beautiful material on it and I honestly think there are some who resist it because she's not playing acoustic guitar. Surely life experience contributes something to a writer's work. I realize that some artists hit a point where they run out of new, fresh ideas, but I really find that hard to believe about Joni. When she did Both Sides Now she made comments about not having anything positive to write about so she wasn't going to put out any new work for the time being. What happened? Was it trouble in her relationship with Kilauren? Was it the lukewarm reception of Taming the Tiger? Was it the state of the world & life in general? Who knows? We can only speculate. But I refuse to believe that Joni's muse is dead or diminished in any way. The issues > in her life may mean she no longer speaks for a generation. But she > speaks beautifully as a human being, thank god. I don't care to hear > much regarding this generation... I also think it's easier for someone who is closer to Joni's age to relate to her more recent material if they are willing to open themselves up to it. If you leave out the familiarity, nostalgia factor and consider someone in their 20s or 30s who is just now discovering Joni, it seems to me they would relate better to the songs Joni created when she was in her 20s & 30s. I don't mean to say that younger people can't appreciate the more recent records but I do think you can never fully understand something until you have experienced it yourself. Like middle age. Geez, how did I ever get to be 47 years old??! Some days I still feel like 27 and some days I feel like 87... But I digress... Now lets see, what was I talking about??.... Mark in Seattle who seems to be having more & more senior moments these days...sigh.... ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 6 May 2001 13:57:05 EDT From: MDESTE1@aol.com Subject: Re: Prince and Joni (md) Actually I was hoping Joni would wear a pair of Prince's pants on one of her album covers but I can only dream.......marcel deste ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 6 May 2001 11:01:16 -0700 From: "Mark or Travis" Subject: Re: Covers - I am 16, going on 17!! > Steve Polifka, the JMDL's beautiful voice from Milwaukee does a fantastic job > on "Man From Mars". I was privileged enough for my buddy Steve to send me > this single a few months back. He puts his heart and soul into everything he > plays and sings. MFM is no exception, and Steve shows his great talents once > again. I have to add my 2 cents here. Steve truly has a gorgeous voice & a wonderful, honest, passionate delivery. A truly talented man and a real sweetheart to boot! Mark in Seattle ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 6 May 2001 14:09:31 EDT From: MDESTE1@aol.com Subject: Re: Shame on the list (md). f40rmr1@corn.cso.niu.edu writes: << I'm surprised that such a sweeping group that "gets" Joni, compared to the general public, would in the end obsess over her earlier work. I refuse to believe the finest of her music ended with Hejira. --And to think we wonder why the general public thinks she died after her folk-rock days???? I, myself have often stated that Hejira is the finest work by Joni.>>> <<>> <<< Her adventurous nature to test the limits of harmony on the neck of her guitar with open tunings? The Wolf that Lives in Lindsey, Turbulent Indigo, Harlem in Havana. >>. <<< Listen to Speachless and tell me she's lost her touch at the piano!>>> John. (Putting up my dukes for Joni.)>>> Actually John I think you are right on in all your comments. I would like to add some complimentary commentary. With some musicians or artists I think there is definitely a tapering of quality material. Especially those trapped in the world of the "hit". But for artists who are masters like Joni Mitchell it is never the case of a song being better than another in the general sense. I believe that you need to look at the entire body of Jonis work as though shes the astronaut sent out into the universe and shes reporting back to us what she is seeing. Shes seeing different things as she goes along and the sum total of her life experience is providing changing lenses of experience by which she is judgeing what she is seeing and sending back to us "reports" about life and the world we live in. In the case of most artists we only get this one limited view but in the case of a writier like Joni who can do real expressive and poetic interpretations of life we get more than that. Are Van Goughs later paintings "better" than his later ones. They are different thats for sure but "better"?? I dont think the words apply. Any more than the earlier works of any master. they are simply that masters current view and all their views are worth alot. As such the Top-10 list on JMDL is basically the former thing you described. Everyone has a favorite and thats that so they share that with us. It isnt a finite rating method that has any gravity. I did enjoy your comments and their insightfullness. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 6 May 2001 14:13:26 EDT From: FMYFL@aol.com Subject: Re: Prince and Joni (md) NJC In a message dated 5/6/01 2:03:36 PM Eastern Daylight Time, MDESTE1@aol.com writes: << Actually I was hoping Joni would wear a pair of Prince's pants on one of her album covers but I can only dream.... >> Marcel, only when you stop wearing KD Lang's pants and start wearing shoes again :~) Jimmy ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 6 May 2001 14:56:27 EDT From: BachelorNumero2@aol.com Subject: Poor Don Juan........ being a recently converted Joni fan I can't believe the harsh criticism that her work has received.......ESPECIALLY "Don Juan's Reckless Daughter".................I've got two words....."PAPRIKA PLAINS" !!!!! OMG, that song is breathtaking!!!!!!! and there are several great songs on the album (Cotton Avenue, Jericho,Dreamland,Silky Veils of Ardor, and even slightly weaker songs "Otis and Marlena", "Off Night Backstreet", "Talk to Me" still approach the level of excellence that most performers don't ever reach!!! BTW/I just gave my cousin my CD copy of "Hejira"............She's about to discover some "great" music........She's gonna listen to it on her long car ride home!!!! What a perfect setting for the album.........Now all I have to do is run up to Borders and plunk down $12 for another copy :( it was worth it :) ciao, Phil ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 07 May 2001 00:37:54 -0700 From: Jan Lumholdt Subject: Re: Shame on the list. Richard Rice wrote many good things, among them: Yeah, wow. Every day a new intellectually stimulating topic from you guys to ponder upon. Well, given a leading lady such as ours, that shouldn't be too surprising. What you say - just checked in and saw Richard and Mark's posts - - is just so very interesting. May I join in again? Those early years certainly hangs on. Not only for the ones "who were there", but also for the generation who wish they were, born around the time of their initial release, who's parents have them in their vinyl collections. These people, today in their thirties, might also finally have spotted Joni behind that great wall of songladies known for example as Vega, Jones, Schocked, Colwin, or Morissette. Some of these claim to be her disciple in spirit, as so many others all over the western world (though some of them, I fear, are not) and most of these are "early Joni"-influenced, too. Early Joni also concides with the Woodstock era, probably one of the most romantizised periods in American 20th Century history, not least here in Europe, where so many young people of the last three decades wish more than anything else that they "were there". They love the fashion (or lack it), the lifestyle (even the illegal parts?) and, of course, the music. They might never have been to Woodstock (but neither was Joni), but they sure live the whole fantasy out. We have Woodstock-type festivals all over the place with a lot of peace, love and understanding going on - and early Joni is of course one of the icons in this design. Therefore, the atmospheres of LOTC and Blue might emanate so much more of a pleasant atmosphere than for example, a Reagan-era DED. Here in Scandinavia and maybe some other places around Europe, I feel that Blue would have won out over Hejira. Mid (Carter-era, if you will) Joni is my personal favourite, if forced to choose (but then, I never am). Hejira would be the grand contender for her to bring to the pearly gates and show to St Peter if he should ask what she's done to deserve an entrance. It's just so right, one foot in jazz, one foot in "folk-rock" (for lack of a better expression - I would prefer the slightly more pretentious term "midwestern impressionism", something Debussy would write, had he been North American, a woman and looked that good in a black beret). Hejira is just the perfect Joni release, for it has enough "folk" to keep the old (sorry, elderly) fans happy and not too jazzed out, but a lot of jazz for the listeners who regard her as one of the best jazz singers ever. DJRD, Mingus and SAL (which was my first Joni and made me discover Metheny as a bonus) just gets better and better. But then, I'm kind of a jazz cat who confesses to wishing I'd been to Birdland rather than Woodstock. I know DJRD and Mingus put a lot of people off and that she initially got some really bad reviews for some of these post-folkrock things, right?, as early as the Burundi drums (10-15 years later when Peter Gabriel and others did similar things, it was described as great innovation) or giving a go at jazz. One reviewer (another one who's name I forget) simple wrote "Dylan she ain't" on the release of DJRD. !?Que?! What did they expect from her - someone other that who she was, it seems. Another musical renaissance artist - Miles Davis - went through similar critisism from both fans and critics when he decided to venture of into a new direction. First for adding a Fender Rhodes piano to the line-up in the 60s and later for getting into synthezisers (he got a very advanced one as a present from Willie Nelson! - one of my favourite musicworld stories) recording Cyndi Lauper songs, doing hip-hop and so forth. It just seems like there is this thing about filing people into a certain one-trick-pony category, thus missing out on a unique journey. And, (as with Miles) there's no such a thing a passed peak with Joni. Just wait - when you least expect it, she'll blow you away, big time. It has happened to me time and time again. I think it's a shame, but from around mid-Joni and up to NRH, I have the feeling that she lost some of her early fans and more and more of her circle of admirers were made up by musicians and so called connaisseurs rather than the larger record-buying group of people, even the always reliable college crowd, who instead went for the Vegas and the Jones's. NRH should have changed that, but by that time all the other singers had taken over her would-be fans of her more soft and acoustic style. I really enjoyed some of these artists, but always felt a little sad about the fact that there was a top banana up there, tasting more ripe and succulent than anything else. And so it goes on... there are simply not enough people around to testify to her whole glorious body of work. Yet. For with people like Phil, who gives his Hejira to his cousin for her long ride home, who will eventually see to it that justice prevail. Good work, Phil! Tomorrow I'll give a THOSL (a soft start) to one of my colleagues at work. Lets all do it, like that movie, 2Invasion of the Body Snatchers2, but with a much cooler outcome. Different phases of Joni in relation to the different presidential eras in a more elborate form would be an interesting discussion, by the way. What, I ask, is she going to do next, now that you've got Alfred E Newman for president? Goodnight, music lovers (it's passed midnight CET) PS Tom Waits once said that he would listen to Miles Davis playing just one note for an hour. I'd say I could do the same with Joni's voice. Not Tom's, though. NP: Grace Jones - Liber Tango/I've seen that face before (it's Piazolla, Wally!) ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 6 May 2001 15:57:57 -0700 From: "Craig" Subject: "Speachless" John wrote: Listen to Speachless and tell me she's lost her touch at the piano! Did I miss this song somewhere? Craig ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 6 May 2001 19:12:46 -0400 From: "Deb Messling" Subject: RE: "Speachless" "Speechless" is a piano song that eventually became "Two Grey Rooms." You can hear the original wordless version on the "My Top Twelve" tape tree. > -----Original Message----- > John wrote: > Listen to Speachless and tell me she's lost her touch at the piano! > > Did I miss this song somewhere? > Craig ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 6 May 2001 18:23:33 -0500 From: "kerry" Subject: Mid-West Joni Fest Hey, y'all, We're re-announcing our mid west Joni fest because we need more people to come!!! As Steve said, we can have a whole bar to ourselves if we get at least 20 people. We have about 10 right now, so we're pleading with more people to come to Milwaukee on June 16. It won't be expensive - $10 for dinner and a night of great music. Steve will be performing and is recruiting more performers as we speak. I'm sure he could be convinced to do his awesome version of "Man From Mars" (now featured on Joni covers vol. 17 :>) Email me and let me know if you can come! EVERYONE is invited. You don't have to be a midwesterner, ya hey. Hope you can make it to the land of beer, cheese and music!!!!! Kerry ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 06 May 2001 19:39:29 -0500 From: mags Subject: Re: "Speachless" a magnificent story about Two Grey Rooms can be found on that same said tape. It is truly haunting and pulls on my heart each and every time I hear it. Joni does an incredibly moving vocalese on the tape which brought me to tears. I didnt know it was once called speechless. thanks for that info Deb. Mags. Deb Messling wrote: > "Speechless" is a piano song that eventually became "Two Grey Rooms." You > can hear the original wordless version on the "My Top Twelve" tape tree. > > > -----Original Message----- > > John wrote: > > Listen to Speachless and tell me she's lost her touch at the piano! > > > > Did I miss this song somewhere? > > Craig - -- --------------------------------------------------------------------- _~O / /\_, ___/\ /_ - ----------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 6 May 2001 19:55:23 EDT From: Kammass@aol.com Subject: njc-ken nordine hey everybody, i was wondering what anyone could tell me about ken nordine? anything? ive purchased a cd-devout catalyst-also has jerry and david grisman-the cd came out on grateful dead records? maybe i should join another list -does the dead have a list? grisman? guess i'll do a search... thanks kammy in alabammy oh yea, i was also wondering if anyone knew about joni's painting on e-bay and how it did, if it did anything? ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 6 May 2001 20:56:27 EDT From: RoseMJoy@aol.com Subject: Re: njc-ken nordine In a message dated 5/6/01 8:06:17 PM Eastern Daylight Time, Kammass@aol.com writes: > oh yea, i was also wondering if anyone knew about joni's painting on e-bay > and how it did, if it did anything? > > > > It didn't sell Kammy, the reserve was never met. - -Rose in NJ rosemjoy@aol.com ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 6 May 2001 21:18:05 -0400 From: "Nikki Johnson" Subject: RE: Top 20 Guitarists et al On Joni's guitar playing... As you have mentioned some of her songs are easy to play, however I think they're hard to play well. There are also some songs that rhythmically are very difficult to play. Her style of playing is very unique. Aside from employing alternate tunings, she was always doing something new with her instrument. I think a lot of recognition comes for the pioneering aspect of her playing. Nikki "Dream on but don't imagine they'll all come true...Vienna waits for you" ~ Billy Joel > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-joni@jmdl.com [mailto:owner-joni@jmdl.com]On Behalf Of > Bobsart48@aol.com > Sent: Sunday, May 06, 2001 11:22 AM > To: joni@smoe.org > Subject: Re: Top 20 Guitarists et al > > > Yesteday I wrote: > I have been lurking on and off for last month or two. Would like > to post a > response and some info. I remember reading about 'how to'' but do not > remember the guide and what rules to remember following - would > you please > direct me to site ? > > In the immortal words of Roberto De Vicenzo - " I am a stupid". > > My first confession out of the way, I would like to add one more > - but first > a sighting. While falling asleep to VH1 the other night (not that > I do that > very often) I ran across what is probably an old Top 20 show on > the "top 20 > guitarists of rock and roll". Joni made the list at number 18 or > so. Now the > other 19 on that list could sit down and play her songs in no > time flat, but > I doubt that she could play any of theirs without a great deal of > time and > practice (and in many cases, "jamais"). I believe this because even I can > play Joni's songs - now that I have the JMDL guitar tab data base to work > from :-) - but I could not hope to do what those others do. Do > they call this > "transferrance " in psych ? (I know nothing about Psych). At > first I thought > that maybe they the VH1 poll was paying homage to her use of multiple > alternate tunings - and to the contribution that has made to future > exploration of the guitar as an instrument. But as I recall (I > was dozing off > until I heard 'the name' ) they did not spend any significant > time dwelling > on that. Could it be that after all those years of > underappreciation by the > liberal media, that they are now employing affirmative action as > an approach > to making up for the indignities of past oversights and other > similar slights > to Joni ? ;-) > > Oops - no time now for the other confession - by the way, when > one posts a > confession on the list, does the Reverand Vince mete out the > penance ? I need > to know, cause the next sin's pretty bad. :-) ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 6 May 2001 22:08:39 EDT From: AsharaJM@aol.com Subject: Re: Jonifest update: the list!!! Jacky wrote: > This is from Ashara's list:- > > **Maybes** > > Azeem from England > Les Ross from England > > Here's my advice guys :- If you can possibly afford the time and money > without seriously jeopardising your state of health then GO! Not that I've > been to a New England Jonifest, you understand, but I've stayed at Ashara's > house/ Joni shrine and, believe me you will never regret going. If you're > wondering why I'm not on that list myself, it's a mighty good question > which > needs answering! Might even see you there, along with Chris. Cool! > Well, Jacky..... Les is off the fence and coming. Chris has already bought his plane ticket, Mark Jones, also from England, is coming. So really, darling, there is no excuse! You MUST join us, I insist!! Also, you Fest-goers may like to know that there are more on the list!! Susan, Blair, Bern, Linda and BRYAN and CINDY are all on the maybe list!!!!!!!!!!! YEEEEEEEEE HAAAAAAAAAAAAA!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Hugs, Ashara ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 6 May 2001 23:17:02 -0400 From: "Nikki Johnson" Subject: RE: Question for Stevie Nicks folks only njc Wow Chris, I couldn't have explained much more than that! I know I owe you an emails somewhere in this stack of 800! Also Planets Of The Universe is an old demo that is very haunting and raw in it's demo form. It's just Stevie and the piano. I kinda think it has more feeling that way personally. I like Trouble In Shangri-la, but I think some of the energy and passion is missing. A perfect example is the Letterman show. It's definitely an album worth listening to. I also think that the tour won't be too much different than Enchanted. It'll be pretty tame and she'll do her routine. As usual, her collaborations on this album were great. Love Nikki np: John Gorka~ Baby Blues "Dream on but don't imagine they'll all come true...Vienna waits for you" ~ Billy Joel > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-joni@jmdl.com [mailto:owner-joni@jmdl.com]On Behalf Of CHRIS > TREACY > Sent: Saturday, May 05, 2001 10:36 AM > To: joni@smoe.org > Subject: Re: Question for Stevie Nicks folks only njc > > > The New CD, TIS-L, is wonderful, and far exceeded my > expectations (and I really thought "Street Angel" was > OK...love "Greta"). Anyway, the CD cooks, and the fact > that she dug out the early demos of "Nomad" (now > "Candlebright") and "Sorcerer" gives the album > something really special. "Candlebright" is > copyrighted as written in 1970, "Sorcerer" in '72, so > she really went way back to re-vamp these songs > (wonder if that was Crow's idea...). Rather than > suffering from lifeless performances, the CD DOES have > a high degree of emotion and clarity, as opposed to > the confused "Other Side...". What's more, the overall > sound of the music recorded here is a vast > improvement. Somewhat of an arena veteran, Stevie's > previous releases have suffered a little from a > bombastic rock and roll sound that isn't always > appropriate to her voice. > > The disc also features a more coherent, overall, vocal > performance from Stevie. She stretches her voice here > and there to reach for a higher note - it's almost as > though she made a deliberate attempt to sing a little > differently this time around. Due to the deepening of > her voice over the years, she falls into a monotone > sound that drones at you after a while, but she avoids > this on the new CD. Can ya'tell I'm sold? If you > listen to "The Wild Heart", nonetheless a GREAT CD, > you can hear how ravaged her voice was becoming from > touring and from all that cocaine slipping down the > back of her throat. She sounds at her best now, > considering all the damage. > > The letterman performance was kind of plain, but then > again, she's on a promotional tour, and a lot rests on > the potential success of this disc. This is her first > effort for Reprise (w/o the Mac), as "Street Angel" > was the last release from her own ill-fated company, > Modern Records. The contract was signed several years > ago at this point, and the disc took forever to make > (and was probably VERY expensive), so I'm sure there's > a little pressure to just 'get out there and perform' > for the masses as opposed to being idiosyncratic and > wailing and flailing...having seen the "Enchanted" > tour in '98, I'm sure that Stevie will be her old self > in front of her own audience. The promotional gigs > serve another purpose entirely, and I think this is > why they're sedated. > > This disc is to be followed by a long tour, and then > another Fleetwood Mac Cd, then possibly a second > "Buckingham/Nicks" project, so we'll be hearing from > her for the next few years non-stop. I, for one, am > pleased. > -Chris > NP: Buckingham/Nicks singing backup on Walter Egan's > "Magnet & Steel" ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 06 May 2001 21:21:00 -0700 From: Randy Remote Subject: Re: Top 20 Guitarists et al Joni is an excellent guitarist in her own self created sphere. You bring up a good point, though. She could never be considered a jazz musician on any instrument except voice because she is not capable of playing other people's songs or improvising. Her tunings cause her to play modally, and within those tunings it would be impossible (or damn near) to play polyphonically. One thing about standard tuning is that you can go from any chord to any other chord at any time. In these tunings you cannot do that. The mark she has left on guitar playing should not be underestimated, but it is it's own confined language. RR Bobsart48@aol.com wrote: > I ran across what is probably an old Top 20 show on the "top 20 > guitarists of rock and roll". Joni made the list at number 18 or so. Now the > other 19 on that list could sit down and play her songs in no time flat, but > I doubt that she could play any of theirs without a great deal of time and > practice (and in many cases, "jamais"). I believe this because even I can > play Joni's songs - now that I have the JMDL guitar tab data base to work > from :-) - but I could not hope to do what those others do. Do they call this > "transferrance " in psych ? (I know nothing about Psych). At first I thought > that maybe they the VH1 poll was paying homage to her use of multiple > alternate tunings - and to the contribution that has made to future > exploration of the guitar as an instrument. But as I recall (I was dozing off > until I heard 'the name' ) they did not spend any significant time dwelling > on that. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 06 May 2001 21:53:15 -0700 From: Randy Remote Subject: Re: njc-ken nordine The title you are talking about was, I think, his comeback release. He did most of his stuff in the '50's or early '60's-kind of philosophical-beat-poet-musings with jazz background. Pleasant to listen to. Died 3 or so years ago if I'm not mistaken. RR Kammass@aol.com wrote: > hey everybody, > i was wondering what anyone could tell me about ken nordine? anything? > ive purchased a cd-devout catalyst-also has jerry and david grisman-the cd > came out on grateful dead records? > maybe i should join another list -does the dead have a list? > grisman? > guess i'll do a search... > thanks kammy in alabammy ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 06 May 2001 21:56:52 -0700 From: Randy Remote Subject: Re: Shame on the list. Richard Rice wrote: > Listen to Speachless and tell me she's lost her touch at the piano! Yes, it's great, but that was how many years ago? It's not so much that she lost her touch, she quit playing altogether. RR (the other one) ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 06 May 2001 22:16:18 -0600 From: Les Irvin Subject: Border Crossings interview The Border Crossings interview has been added to the JMDL website: http://www.jmdl.com/articles/docs/0102bc.cfm Thanks to Judy Haugh and Mags for typing it up. Les ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 06 May 2001 23:57:14 -0700 From: "Robert Holliston" Subject: Re: Border Crossings interview What a GREAT interview!! Thanks to everybody involved for making it available. Roberto >The Border Crossings interview has been added to the JMDL website: >http://www.jmdl.com/articles/docs/0102bc.cfm >Thanks to Judy Haugh and Mags for typing it up. >Les _________________________________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com. ------------------------------ End of JMDL Digest V2001 #210 ***************************** ------- Post messages to the list by clicking here: mailto:joni@smoe.org Unsubscribe by clicking here: mailto:joni-digest-request@smoe.org?body=unsubscribe ------- Siquomb, isn't she?