From: les@jmdl.com (JMDL Digest) To: joni-digest@smoe.org Subject: JMDL Digest V2001 #206 Reply-To: joni@smoe.org Sender: les@jmdl.com Errors-To: les@jmdl.com Precedence: bulk Unsubscribe: mailto:joni-digest-request@smoe.org?body=unsubscribe Archives: http://www.smoe.org/lists/joni Websites: http://www.jmdl.com http://www.jonimitchell.com JMDL Digest Friday, May 4 2001 Volume 2001 : Number 206 The 'Official' Joni Mitchell Homepage, created by Wally Breese, can be found at http://www.jonimitchell.com. It contains the latest news, a detailed bio, Original Interviews, essays, lyrics and much much more. The JMDL website can be found at http://www.jmdl.com and contains interviews, articles, the member gallery, archives, and much more. Information on the 4th "Annual" New England JoniFest: http://www.jmdl.com/jfne2001.cfm The Joni Chat Room: http://www.jmdl.com/chat.cfm ========== TOPICS and authors in this Digest: -------- Trades? [MarkPerini@aol.com] Re: How to clean your cat NJC ["Raffaele Malanga" ] Re: hi y'all/People's Parties [philipf@tinet.ie] Re: The top 10 Joni songs... [philipf@tinet.ie] New artist ["Mike Hicks" ] Re: hi y'all/People's Parties [IVPAUL42@aol.com] Re: The top 10 Joni songs... [IVPAUL42@aol.com] Re: Bob: Animus; Joni: Anima? [w evans ] Re: A Work in Progress - finished at last [RoseMJoy@aol.com] Re: Foni Mitchell photo gallery and jmdl mentions !!! NJC [RoseMJoy@aol.c] Re: Bob: Animus; Joni: Anima? NJC [SCJoniGuy@aol.com] Re: hi y'all/People's Parties NJC [SCJoniGuy@aol.com] Re: Bob: Animus; Joni: Anima?NJC [catman ] Re: The top 10 Joni songs... [catman ] Re: The top 10 Joni songs... ["Mike Hicks" ] Re: The top 10 Joni songs... ["Mark or Travis" ] Re: The top 10 Joni songs... [SMEBD@aol.com] Re: hi y'all/People's Parties [Coyote4Joni@aol.com] Re: The top 10 Joni songs... ["Mike Hicks" ] Re: The top 10 Joni songs... [catman ] Foni Mitchell photo gallery? NJC [Steve Dulson ] Re: The top 10 Joni songs... ["Mike Hicks" ] Brian Hinton Book on Joni (& freebies) [mann@chicagonet.net] Re: The top 10 Joni songs... [Jan Lumholdt ] RE: The top 10 Joni songs... ["Wally Kairuz" ] Re: How to clean your cat and the ensuing brouhaha NJC [Catherine McKay <] Re: The top 10 Joni songs... [Randy Remote ] Re: The top 10 Joni songs.../the songwriter's peak ["Brenda J. Walker" ] Re: The top 10 Joni songs... [Jan Lumholdt ] Re: The top 10 Joni songs... [catman ] Re: The top 10 Joni songs... [catman ] Re: The top 10 Joni songs.../the songwriter's peak ["Mike Hicks" ] Re: The top 10 Joni songs... [FMYFL@aol.com] Re: The top 10 Joni songs... [catman ] Re: Stuff - NJC [AsharaJM@aol.com] Re: The top 10 Joni songs... [SCJoniGuy@aol.com] Re: The top 10 Joni songs... [IVPAUL42@aol.com] Re: How to wash a cat [md] ["Jim L'Hommedieu" ] Happy jmdler - NJC ["hell" ] ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Fri, 4 May 2001 03:19:45 EDT From: MarkPerini@aol.com Subject: Trades? HI, I'm new to the list. I'd love to do some trades. I don't have much Joni, but I have lots by folks such as Van Morrison, Dylan, Neil Young, Stones, Lucinda Williams, Pretenders, Sting, etc. Mark Perini markperini@aol.com ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 04 May 2001 09:12:39 From: "Raffaele Malanga" Subject: Re: How to clean your cat NJC Date: Thu, 3 May 2001 20:56:03 EDT From: IVPAUL42@aol.com Subject: Re: How to clean your cat In a message dated 5/3/01 5:00:14 PM Eastern Daylight Time, donjuansrd80@hotmail.com writes: << Oh come now. This isnt the Elementary school where Johnny can't play on the swings for a week cause he pulled Suzie's hair. I am sure we are all mature people here. Stress on the mature. blair >> << a mature person would not have posted that crap.>> nonetheless, mature persons can have a laugh! This was one of the best post I've read lately. Raf (who's got two cats at home) - ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 4 May 2001 11:17:30 +0100 From: philipf@tinet.ie Subject: Re: hi y'all/People's Parties Randy Remote wrote: > > I had always imagined that "Jack" was Jack Cassidy, bassist > for Jefferson Airplane. But what the hell do I know. > Grace Jones-was she even around in '74? > RR I think the song was introduced in concerts as being about Hollywood high society. I'm not sure how the Airplane folks fitted into that scenario. Anyway I like the idea of it being Jack Nicholson and Grace Kelly. Philip ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 4 May 2001 11:17:59 +0100 From: philipf@tinet.ie Subject: Re: The top 10 Joni songs... Les wrote: > 1 - A Case Of You (50 votes) > 2 - Amelia (49) > 3 - Hejira (46) > 4 - Song For Sharon (45) > 5 - The Last Time I Saw Richard (41) > 6 - Edith And The Kingpin 40) > 7 - Woman Of Heart And Mind (39) > 8 - River (39) > 9 - People's Parties (39) > 10- Refuge Of The Roads (38) Some surprises there, Les No BSN. Nothing later than 1976. Richard is a great song but I didn't expect it to make the top 5.. Philip ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 4 May 2001 08:00:42 -0500 From: "Mike Hicks" Subject: New artist I'm currently listening to a new guy named Pete Yorn. The cd is called The Morning After (I think). But I thought of this group as I listened. He sings with the passion of a Joni Mitchell, or a Bob Dylan. He is worth a listen. Anyone heard any of his stuff? I may be behind the times here and didn't know it. Mike ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 4 May 2001 08:05:07 EDT From: IVPAUL42@aol.com Subject: Re: hi y'all/People's Parties In a message dated 5/4/01 6:26:55 AM Eastern Daylight Time, philipf@tinet.ie writes: << > > I had always imagined that "Jack" was Jack Cassidy, bassist > for Jefferson Airplane. But what the hell do I know. > Grace Jones-was she even around in '74? > RR I think the song was introduced in concerts as being about Hollywood high society. I'm not sure how the Airplane folks fitted into that scenario. Anyway I like the idea of it being Jack Nicholson and Grace Kelly. Philip >> The Jefferson Airplane connection makes sense because Crosby and Nash were close with the Airplane and the Dead, and recording Crosby's solo album as well as the Paul Kantner's Blows Against the Empire about the same time with many of the same people. Jack Casady played on both albums, of course, and Grace Slick certainly was a well-known party legend of the era. How did Grace Jones get mentioned? I didn't think she had even been invented yet. Paul I ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 4 May 2001 08:15:30 EDT From: IVPAUL42@aol.com Subject: Re: The top 10 Joni songs... In a message dated 5/4/01 6:28:54 AM Eastern Daylight Time, philipf@tinet.ie writes: << Some surprises there, Les No BSN. Nothing later than 1976. >> My take on that is that while we as fans are proud of Joni for the commercial, critical and financial success that her signature song, Both Sides Now, has brought her, it is in songs such as "Hejira" and "Last ... Richard" that deep ability as a songwriter AND musician come to the fore, and it is these songs that we see as the true essence of Joni. At least eight of these 10 are in my top 10, with only Amelia and Song for Sharon being in my top 20 (I'd suggest women may relate more closely to those two than men). And I don't think I'm in the minority, either, than while Joni has continued to put out good music, nothing after Hejira measures up to anything she did from Blue through Hejira. In baseball, research shows a player's peak years are from about age 27 to 32. I think it's pretty close to the same for songwriters. How old was George Gershwin, the greatest American songwriter and composer, when he was doing his best work? Paul I ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 4 May 2001 08:37:00 -0400 (EDT) From: w evans Subject: Re: Bob: Animus; Joni: Anima? I would ask that further responses to this thread not include this sort, which contributes nothing to the discussion, and is nothing that we haven't heard a million times before and still completely misses the point. I'll mention though, that Joni employs melody more than just about anyone, but Bob's songs are at least as melodic as your average blues or Chuck Berry song is, some of them much more so. (Don't Think Twice, anything from John Wesley Harding and Nashville Skyline, Simple Twist of Fate, Jokerman are the first that come to mind.) On Fri, 4 May 2001, catman wrote: > > > Blair Fraipont wrote: > > > I think an importnat difference for me is that Joni employs > > melody alot more than Dylan. > > The important difference for me is that joni at least sounds like she can sing! > Sorry all you Bob fans, I think he sounds atrocious. Best let others sing his > stuff! ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 4 May 2001 08:49:09 EDT From: RoseMJoy@aol.com Subject: Re: A Work in Progress - finished at last A fine masterpiece Mark, Wally would be proud. rosemjoy@aol.com ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 4 May 2001 08:51:34 EDT From: RoseMJoy@aol.com Subject: Re: Foni Mitchell photo gallery and jmdl mentions !!! NJC Great web design! All that you need now are some MP3's so we could have a listen. Rose in NJ rosemjoy@aol.com ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 4 May 2001 09:00:23 EDT From: SCJoniGuy@aol.com Subject: Re: Bob: Animus; Joni: Anima? NJC << Bob's songs are at least as melodic as your average blues or Chuck Berry song is, some of them much more so. (Don't Think Twice, anything from John Wesley Harding and Nashville Skyline, Simple Twist of Fate, Jokerman are the first that come to mind.) >> Ken, the Dylan melody that I like best would be "You're Gonna Make Me Lonesome When you Go", lyrically brilliant as well (no surprise there!) Bob NP: Shawn Colvin, "Urge For Going" ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 4 May 2001 09:01:48 EDT From: SCJoniGuy@aol.com Subject: Re: hi y'all/People's Parties NJC << Grace Jones-was she even around in '74? >> Her first record was 1977, but she may have been in the modeling/social arena prior to that...She always gave ME the heebie-jeebies! Bob ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 04 May 2001 14:10:05 +0100 From: catman Subject: Re: Bob: Animus; Joni: Anima?NJC w evans wrote: > I would ask that further responses to this thread not include this sort, You can ask but you won't get! I am as entitled to share my opinion as you are yours. There is no poin to miss. He cannot sing but writes really great music. My opinion and I am entitled to express it. > > which contributes nothing to the discussion, and is nothing that we > haven't heard a million times before and still completely misses the > point. > > I'll mention though, that Joni employs melody more than just about anyone, > but Bob's songs are at least as melodic as your average blues or Chuck > Berry song is, some of them much more so. (Don't Think Twice, anything > from John Wesley Harding and Nashville Skyline, Simple Twist of Fate, > Jokerman are the first that come to mind.) > > On Fri, 4 May 2001, catman wrote: > > > > > > > Blair Fraipont wrote: > > > > > I think an importnat difference for me is that Joni employs > > > melody alot more than Dylan. > > > > The important difference for me is that joni at least sounds like she can sing! > > Sorry all you Bob fans, I think he sounds atrocious. Best let others sing his > > stuff! - -- bw colin BRO GC, 950i 940,864, 260, 890,Silver 830 and 270, Passap 6000 Duo80 colin@tantra.fsbusiness.co.uk http://www.geocities.com/tantra_apso/index.html ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 04 May 2001 14:12:45 +0100 From: catman Subject: Re: The top 10 Joni songs... > nothing after Hejira measures up to anything > she did from Blue through Hejira. I disagree. Thos I like THSOL and Hejira very much, I also like DED,NRH and TI very much. I guess I prfer those works out of all ogf them tho i'd add STAS. I am sure others would have still a different list. I don't think Joni was past it when she wrote DED TI or NRH. > > In baseball, research shows a player's peak years are from about age 27 to > 32. I think it's pretty close to the same for songwriters. How old was > George Gershwin, the greatest American songwriter and composer, when he was > doing his best work? > > Paul I - -- bw colin BRO GC, 950i 940,864, 260, 890,Silver 830 and 270, Passap 6000 Duo80 colin@tantra.fsbusiness.co.uk http://www.geocities.com/tantra_apso/index.html ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 4 May 2001 09:31:03 -0500 From: "Mike Hicks" Subject: Re: The top 10 Joni songs... > From: IVPAUL42@aol.com > Date: Fri, 4 May 2001 08:15:30 EDT > Subject: Re: The top 10 Joni songs... > To: philipf@tinet.ie, joni@smoe.org > Reply-to: IVPAUL42@aol.com > And I don't think I'm in the minority, either, than while Joni has > continued to put out good music, nothing after Hejira measures up to anything > she did from Blue through Hejira. > In baseball, research shows a player's peak years are from about age 27 to > 32. I think it's pretty close to the same for songwriters. How old was Paul, I have to totally agree with you here on all accounts. But what could ever come close to Hejira? Had she put this out first it may have changed the way we feel about the other albums. Her masterpiece came at the height of her songwriting. Many people's lives change drastically after about age 32, with other responsibilities such as families, friends(or lack of) that may affect a person's peofessional career. Believe me, there's nothing like having children to change a person. I still buy everything she puts out, and by today's standards it is still terriffic material. I just don't put it on like I do Don Juan, Hejira, For the Roses, Court and Spark. Mike ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 4 May 2001 06:49:40 -0700 From: "Mark or Travis" Subject: Re: The top 10 Joni songs... > > nothing after Hejira measures up to anything > > she did from Blue through Hejira. > > I disagree. Thos I like THSOL and Hejira very much, I also like DED,NRH and TI > very much. I guess I prfer those works out of all ogf them tho i'd add STAS. > > I am sure others would have still a different list. I don't think Joni was past > it when she wrote DED TI or NRH. And I still say Taming the Tiger belongs in Joni's 'best of' list. A beautiful record with some elegant writing. I agree with Colin about TI & NRH also. They stand up against Hejira any day in my book. (I also agree with Colin that, even though I admire his songwriting, I really don't like to hear Bob Dylan sing.) Mark in Seattle ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 4 May 2001 09:56:47 EDT From: SMEBD@aol.com Subject: Re: The top 10 Joni songs... In a message dated 5/4/01 8:30:25 AM Eastern Daylight Time, IVPAUL42@aol.com writes: > And I don't think I'm in the minority, either, than while Joni has > continued to put out good music, nothing after Hejira measures up to > anything > For me, TI ranks up there with the very best of Joni's (or anyone's for that matter) work. The emotional intensity--the sense of desperation--that she captures in Sunny Sunday is, IMHO, unmatched in any other song. And the poetry of Sire Of Sorrow matches that of Hejira (my favorite song and LP). I feel TI is a true masterpiece: it comes from the perspective of an older woman than what we hear on the albums from Blue thru Hejira, and while it may be "darker" than some like, it captures emotions as strongly as any of Joni's works. I have always been drawn to Joni's work because she hits a chord in me--I respond to her music and lyrics on a visceral level (I can't always explain what she touches off in me, but she always brings up intense feelings). Stephen ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 4 May 2001 10:09:00 EDT From: Coyote4Joni@aol.com Subject: Re: hi y'all/People's Parties In a message dated 5/3/01 8:59:43 PM Pacific Daylight Time, guitarzan@saber.net writes: Randy Remote Wrote: Grace Jones-was she even around in '74? Coyote Rick also ponders: I remember her in the early 1980s, but she was pretty young then, so I also wonder if Joni could have been referring to Jones. The timing seems a little off, but the whole fan thing certainly works for Jones' image. I've always thought of Slick, but it doesn't make sense that she would be viewed as cold, either. We sure know it wasn't Grace Allen. :-) No regrets, Coyote Rick Casa Alegre Hollywood, California ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 4 May 2001 10:27:58 -0500 From: "Mike Hicks" Subject: Re: The top 10 Joni songs... > From: SMEBD@aol.com > Date: Fri, 4 May 2001 09:56:47 EDT > Subject: Re: The top 10 Joni songs... > To: IVPAUL42@aol.com, philipf@tinet.ie, joni@smoe.org > Reply-to: SMEBD@aol.com > In a message dated 5/4/01 8:30:25 AM Eastern Daylight Time, IVPAUL42@aol.com > writes: > > > > And I don't think I'm in the minority, either, than while Joni has > > continued to put out good music, nothing after Hejira measures up to > > anything > > > > For me, TI ranks up there with the very best of Joni's (or anyone's for that > matter) work. The emotional intensity--the sense of desperation--that she > captures in Sunny Sunday is, IMHO, unmatched in any other song. And the > poetry of Sire Of Sorrow matches that of Hejira (my favorite song and LP). I > feel TI is a true masterpiece: it comes from the perspective of an older > woman than what we hear on the albums from Blue thru Hejira, and while it may > be "darker" than some like, it captures emotions as strongly as any of Joni's > works. I have always been drawn to Joni's work because she hits a chord in > me--I respond to her music and lyrics on a visceral level (I can't always > explain what she touches off in me, but she always brings up intense > feelings). > > Stephen You are right. If anyone could pull it off at this point of a career it would be Joni. I guess aerosmith fans could say the same of them now. Still, for me song for song, Hejira wins. Joni has more than a couple masterpieces. Mine are FTR, Court, Hissing, and Hejira. Outside of Blue, this may be the favorites by many others on the list. To me, this body of work is nearly unmatched by anyone I can think of. (Of course their are some in my opinion that come close...Yes, Genesis, Beatles, Hendrix, Stones, Jefferson Airplane, CSNY, Tull, and early Steve Miller Band had it's moments .) And when you think about it, 4 albums is one heck of a body of work. Am I leaving any out? Mike ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 04 May 2001 15:56:17 +0100 From: catman Subject: Re: The top 10 Joni songs... > (I can't always > explain what she touches off in me, but she always brings up intense > feelings). ditto. and not always pleasant feelings or thoughts either but she gets to me anyway. > > > Stephen - -- bw colin BRO GC, 950i 940,864, 260, 890,Silver 830 and 270, Passap 6000 Duo80 colin@tantra.fsbusiness.co.uk http://www.geocities.com/tantra_apso/index.html ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 4 May 2001 08:08:47 -0700 From: Steve Dulson Subject: Foni Mitchell photo gallery? NJC >Also - check out the credits - you are all there !!! >The address is: >http:/website.lineone.net/~fonimitchell Well, I figured out there should be TWO slashes after the http:, but even when I get there, I can't access any photos. :( - -- ######################################################## Steve Dulson Costa Mesa CA steve@psitech.com "The Tinker's Own" http://www.tinkersown.com "Southern California Dulcimer Heritage" http://www.cpmusic.com/scdh "The Living Tradition Concert Series" http://www.thelivingtradition.org/ ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 4 May 2001 11:58:36 -0500 From: "Mike Hicks" Subject: Re: The top 10 Joni songs... > Date: Tue, 01 May 2001 10:51:42 -0500 > From: mags > To: Mike Hicks > Subject: Re: The top 10 Joni songs... > what about Blue and Turbulent Indigo as well as Don Juans Wreckless Daughter and in > this particular CD, I am drawn to Paprika Plains..what a magnificent body of work > that song is in and of itself. > > Mags All of these you mentioned had their moments, but none of these are as solid throughout as the ones I mentioned, in my opinion of course. I can count on one hand the number of times Blue has graced my turntable and cassette deck. When I taped my favorite songs off lp's all of Hejira and Court were definitely on there, as was most of For the Roses and Hissing. I have to pick and choose with the rest, even though I own all of them on cd now. Even bought the BSN promo package cd, and rarely ever play it. I will continue to buy everything she ever does knowing full well it can never eclipse that period in the 70's. Mike > > Mike Hicks wrote: > > > > From: SMEBD@aol.com > > > Date: Fri, 4 May 2001 09:56:47 EDT > > > Subject: Re: The top 10 Joni songs... > > > To: IVPAUL42@aol.com, philipf@tinet.ie, joni@smoe.org > > > Reply-to: SMEBD@aol.com > > > > > In a message dated 5/4/01 8:30:25 AM Eastern Daylight Time, IVPAUL42@aol.com > > > writes: > > > > > > > > > > And I don't think I'm in the minority, either, than while Joni has > > > > continued to put out good music, nothing after Hejira measures up to > > > > anything > > > > > > > > > > For me, TI ranks up there with the very best of Joni's (or anyone's for that > > > matter) work. The emotional intensity--the sense of desperation--that she > > > captures in Sunny Sunday is, IMHO, unmatched in any other song. And the > > > poetry of Sire Of Sorrow matches that of Hejira (my favorite song and LP). I > > > feel TI is a true masterpiece: it comes from the perspective of an older > > > woman than what we hear on the albums from Blue thru Hejira, and while it may > > > be "darker" than some like, it captures emotions as strongly as any of Joni's > > > works. I have always been drawn to Joni's work because she hits a chord in > > > me--I respond to her music and lyrics on a visceral level (I can't always > > > explain what she touches off in me, but she always brings up intense > > > feelings). > > > > > > Stephen > > > > You are right. If anyone could pull it off at this point of a career > > it would be Joni. I guess aerosmith fans could say the same of them > > now. Still, for me song for song, Hejira wins. Joni has more than a > > couple masterpieces. Mine are FTR, Court, Hissing, and Hejira. > > Outside of Blue, this may be the favorites by many others on the > > list. To me, this body of work is nearly unmatched by anyone I can > > think of. (Of course their are some in my opinion that come > > close...Yes, Genesis, Beatles, Hendrix, Stones, Jefferson Airplane, > > CSNY, Tull, and early Steve Miller Band had it's moments .) And when > > you think about it, 4 albums is one heck of a body of work. Am I > > leaving any out? > > > > Mike > > -- > > --------------------------------------------------------------------- > > _~O > / /\_, > ___/\ > /_ > ----------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 04 May 2001 11:35:43 -0500 From: mann@chicagonet.net Subject: Brian Hinton Book on Joni (& freebies) Has anyone else noticed the updated version of Brian Hinton's book has a nice picture of Joni on the cover? I noticed it at Borders yesterday. Now I'm bummed I have the old one. Anyone have any book coupons???? Here's the picture at amazon: http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/1860743110/qid=988991883/sr=1-4/ref=sc_b_5/102-4931111-1282564 If you need some new clothes for JoniFest...........go to Kohl's! Today and tomorrow they are giving out a $10 Gift Certificate for any purchase (except for a Kohl's gift certificate). I bought an anniversary card for $1.99 in their card department and was handed a $10 GC. What a steal............I mean deal!!! The $10 is good on a $10 purchase and can be used May 6-13, 2001. It is good on all regular, clearance and sale priced merchandise and may be combined with any other form of payment (so you don't need a Kohl's charge card). If you're hesitant about Jonifest 'cuz you feel your clothes are square you've heard about Kohl's ten so get on over there! You'll be doin' the Fest in style without naught a fashion care you'll be wearing your new freebie shirt, pants, and/or under_ _ _ _. I can weave Joni content into most everything! Laura P.S. Win a Penn Street Cake 1 in 10 wins. http://www.pennstreet.com/ Scroll down and click on the box that says CLICK HERE ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 04 May 2001 19:04:45 -0700 From: Jan Lumholdt Subject: Re: The top 10 Joni songs... Hi guys, I signed in to your pleasant chatroom a couple of weeks ago and have had a wonderful time following the different discussion on Coyote Guys, Blue vs Blood on the Tracks, Jack and Grace, We Have Heaven lyrics et cetera. Being European (Swedish to be exact) I find many of the best American artists being discussed here, things to be really proud of as an American, as well as enjoy all over the world, over and over again. Luckily, music speaks an international language. International is also the passion of making lists, it seems.. On the subject of which period of Joni's career is the best, I would say she has different age groups of fans getting into different phases of her career, all of them equally important. Personally, after starting exploring her in the late 70s/early 80s, I enjoy the jazz chops the most - her voice together with Wayne's sax and Jaco's bass lines are simply made in heaven (I used to think they played harp up there, but apparently it fretless bass), but every period has it's unique kind of magic. Her venture into electronics with Dolby's warm synths in the background, and of course James Taylor gently humming behind her on Blue or for that matter Michael McDoobie on Dog Eat Dog - I wouldn't miss out on any of it. I have cherished every new release as much as the vintage ones I gradually sought out. "Bad" Joni is better than most good music out there, I'm tempted to state. And now, my top ten list of today, arranged alphabetically. Tomorrow it might look slightly different (but then again, it might not): Blue Motel Room Cool Water* The Dry Cleaner from Des Moines Goodbye Pork Pie Hat Harry's House/Centerpiece Hejira Impossible Dreamer Ouverture/Cotton Avenue Ray's Dad's Cadillac Yvette in French Skel from Jan in Stockholm (who saw her beside our king when she received the Polar music awards and thought "you better behave, you're standing next to royalty". Luckily, he did.) *Joni and Willie - how could they lose? >> Date: Tue, 01 May 2001 10:51:42 -0500 >> From: mags >> To: Mike Hicks >> Subject: Re: The top 10 Joni songs... > >> what about Blue and Turbulent Indigo as well as Don Juans Wreckless Daughter >> and in >> this particular CD, I am drawn to Paprika Plains..what a magnificent body of >> work >> that song is in and of itself. >> >> Mags > > All of these you mentioned had their moments, but none of these are > as solid throughout as the ones I mentioned, in my opinion of course. > I can count on one hand the number of times Blue has graced my > turntable and cassette deck. When I taped my favorite songs off lp's > all of Hejira and Court were definitely on there, as was most of For > the Roses and Hissing. I have to pick and choose with the rest, even > though I own all of them on cd now. Even bought the BSN promo > package cd, and rarely ever play it. I will continue to buy > everything she ever does knowing full well it can never eclipse that > period in the 70's. > > Mike >> >> Mike Hicks wrote: >> >>>> From: SMEBD@aol.com >>>> Date: Fri, 4 May 2001 09:56:47 EDT >>>> Subject: Re: The top 10 Joni songs... >>>> To: IVPAUL42@aol.com, philipf@tinet.ie, joni@smoe.org >>>> Reply-to: SMEBD@aol.com >>> >>>> In a message dated 5/4/01 8:30:25 AM Eastern Daylight Time, >>>> IVPAUL42@aol.com >>>> writes: >>>> >>>> >>>>> And I don't think I'm in the minority, either, than while Joni has >>>>> continued to put out good music, nothing after Hejira measures up to >>>>> anything >>>>> >>>> >>>> For me, TI ranks up there with the very best of Joni's (or anyone's for >>>> that >>>> matter) work. The emotional intensity--the sense of desperation--that she >>>> captures in Sunny Sunday is, IMHO, unmatched in any other song. And the >>>> poetry of Sire Of Sorrow matches that of Hejira (my favorite song and LP). >>>> I >>>> feel TI is a true masterpiece: it comes from the perspective of an older >>>> woman than what we hear on the albums from Blue thru Hejira, and while it >>>> may >>>> be "darker" than some like, it captures emotions as strongly as any of >>>> Joni's >>>> works. I have always been drawn to Joni's work because she hits a chord in >>>> me--I respond to her music and lyrics on a visceral level (I can't always >>>> explain what she touches off in me, but she always brings up intense >>>> feelings). >>>> >>>> Stephen >>> >>> You are right. If anyone could pull it off at this point of a career >>> it would be Joni. I guess aerosmith fans could say the same of them >>> now. Still, for me song for song, Hejira wins. Joni has more than a >>> couple masterpieces. Mine are FTR, Court, Hissing, and Hejira. >>> Outside of Blue, this may be the favorites by many others on the >>> list. To me, this body of work is nearly unmatched by anyone I can >>> think of. (Of course their are some in my opinion that come >>> close...Yes, Genesis, Beatles, Hendrix, Stones, Jefferson Airplane, >>> CSNY, Tull, and early Steve Miller Band had it's moments .) And when >>> you think about it, 4 albums is one heck of a body of work. Am I >>> leaving any out? >>> >>> Mike >> >> -- >> >> --------------------------------------------------------------------- >> >> _~O >> / /\_, >> ___/\ >> /_ >> ----------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 4 May 2001 15:02:39 -0300 From: "Wally Kairuz" Subject: RE: The top 10 Joni songs... i loved this line!!!!!!! skel all the way back from argentina! wallyK, who thinks king gustav is soooooooo good-looking -- and a taurus to boot! >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Skel from Jan in Stockholm (who saw her beside our king when she received the Polar music awards and thought "you better behave, you're standing next to royalty". Luckily, he did.) ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 4 May 2001 14:29:13 -0400 (EDT) From: Catherine McKay Subject: Re: How to clean your cat and the ensuing brouhaha NJC - --- Vince Lavieri wrote: > Can we spin this out any more and annoy any > additional people that have > been missed? > > Point has been made and agreed with. > > Now: ENOUGH! > > SHUT THE WHATEVER UP! > > Marcel's post was funny and didn't contain NJC which > it should of and > now ENOUGH!!!!!! > > Moments like this I want to play Survivor with you > all and vote a bunch > of folks off! > > > (The Rev) Vince who loves everyone but has had it > with snippy never shut > up and leave it alone posts from people who need to > get a bit more of a > life, please! I've wondered why people get into this back-and-forth "Shut up/no, you shut up!" kind of thing (kind of like my kids, in fact) that seems to go on ad nauseum, but there's a pretty logical explanation why this happens. People read their posts at different times. Sometimes they don't read them for a few days. To those who read every day (sometimes more than once the same day) and who manage to keep on top of every post, something that was said two days ago is old news; but to someone who's two days behind, it has just been said. So you get one of these annoying "FOAD" type of things going on for several days (in real time), which is puzzling and annoying to those who believe the issue has died off, but is merely annoying to those who are new to the issue. Capisce? Nevertheless, the FOAD types of posts are not just annoying, but rather pointless as well. If you disagree with someone, by all means say so, but simply to say "Don't send this crap." "Don't be immature." or "Shut up and go to hell." serves no purpose. If you find something offensive, it's your right to say so, but it usually helps to explain why you feel it's offensive. It may not always be obvious to the person who sent the post (even though *you* may think it *should* be obvious). Or maybe the person said something that could be interpreted in a number of ways - ask them to explain; don't assume the worst. P.S. I found Marcel's joke funny too, esp. the last two words. P.P.S. Vince, that's the second time in a few days you've suggested that people "get a life". Hmm, now what do you suppose that means? Get your free @yahoo.ca address at http://mail.yahoo.ca ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 04 May 2001 12:22:35 -0700 From: Randy Remote Subject: Re: The top 10 Joni songs... Great post Jan, and welcome to jmdl... Jan Lumholdt wrote: > I signed in to your pleasant chatroom a couple of weeks ago > I find many of the best American artists > being discussed here, things to be really proud of as an American, as well > as enjoy all over the world, over and over again. yeah! > "Bad" Joni is > better than most good music out there, I'm tempted to state. yeah yeah! > And now, my top ten list of today, > Ouverture/Cotton Avenue yeah yeah yeah! > > Skel from Jan in Stockholm (who saw her beside our king when she received > the Polar music awards and thought "you better behave, you're standing next > to royalty". Luckily, he did.) Funny!!!!! ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 14 May 2001 12:25:19 -0700 From: "Brenda J. Walker" Subject: Re: The top 10 Joni songs.../the songwriter's peak I wonder if age is less a cause and more an effect, particularly where singer/songwriters are concerned. The industry focus is on signing artists under 25 because the supposition is that they will appeal best to the most active music buying demo - 12-24. So artists over 30 rarely even get a first look, let alone a second one. And very few popular music artists are like Joni who has an arc to her songwriting career. The sophomore slump has a logical reason for existing - an artist spends their whole life (to that point) writing their first record and then they have a couple of years to write their second. Many can't get past this period (nor do they get the chance) to write their 6th or 7th. I think Aimee Mann is a great example of someone hitting her songwriting peak while approaching 40. As is Cassandra Wilson who, although better known as a vocalist, has written her best songs on Blue Light Til Dawn and New Moon Daughter. As to Gershwin, he wrote Rhapsody in Blue at 26 and many of the show tunes in his 20's. But he wrote Porgy & Bess at 36-37. He died three years later, so whose to say whether his best work was in front of him or not. For my money, Duke Ellington was America's greatest composer and his best writing (not his most popular) definitely was after his 30's. Brenda What's missing from the Joni top 10 list for me is "Two Grey Rooms." IVPAUL42@aol.com wrote: > In baseball, research shows a player's peak years are from about age 27 to > 32. I think it's pretty close to the same for songwriters. How old was > George Gershwin, the greatest American songwriter and composer, when he was > doing his best work? ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 4 May 2001 15:37:24 EDT From: FMYFL@aol.com Subject: Re: The top 10 Joni songs... Paul Ivice wrote: << nothing after Hejira measures up to anything > she did from Blue through Hejira. and Colin responded with: < I disagree. Thos I like THSOL and Hejira very much, I also like DED,NRH and TI very much. I guess I prfer those works out of all ogf them tho i'd add STAS. I am sure others would have still a different list. I don't think Joni was past it when she wrote DED TI or NRH. >> I'd have to agree with Colin. Even though Hejira is my all time favorite, I *love* TI and NRH and in my opinion they do measure up to Joni's '76 and earlier works. Paul might be right that the majority of the list does prefer her earlier work, but not necessarily by me. In fact, I know one lister who shall remain nameless (but his/her middle initial is D. ) doesn't even own any Joni prior to MOI. :~) Jimmy ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 4 May 2001 13:07:14 -0700 (PDT) From: Don Rowe Subject: Re: The top 10 Joni songs.../the songwriter's peak "We'll just wait until it comes around on the ole guitar ...", as Arlo once said. This thread always kills me, because the results of the poll clearly show EXACTLY who's been responding. Happens everytime we do it ... To Paul IV's comparison of songwriters and baseball players ... that's not exactly a proper analogy. Baseball is a constant physical challenge that an individual player's body either meets or does not as he ages. *(please see note below) Songwriting, on the other hand, is dynamic -- allowing artists to change, grow and remain strong throughout their career. So it was that the entire game changed, as Joni grew. She starts out on acoustic guitar. Then she gets a band, and her songwriting changes. She gets into jazz, it changes her songwriting ... blend pop and jazz it changes again ... throw in a few keyboards & guitar synths -- well you get the picture. Sure, a certain set of common elements have remained in her writing throughout her career ... the extended phrasing, the poetic/phonetic polish, the alternate tunings & unique chord voicings. But I at least, would be hard-put to rank "Night In The City" and say, "Strange Boy", "The Beat of Black Wings" & "Harlem In Havana" in any kind of truly relevant compositional way. They are simply different species of song written by the same artist. Which is a round about way of saying ... we know what we like. Not that I, or anyone else was taking the poll literally! ;-) Don Rowe ===== Visit me anytime at http://www.mp3.com/donrowe Yahoo! Auctions - buy the things you want at great prices http://auctions.yahoo.com/ ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 4 May 2001 13:17:07 -0700 (PDT) From: Don Rowe Subject: Re: The top 10 Joni songs.../the songwriter's peak (the note below) Sorry ... that (*see note below) I left out should read something to the effect of my baseball comment having nothing to do with a woman's ability to play the sport ... merely reflecting the fact that Major League baseball as we know it, is still played exclusively by men. And also that, since we all consider Joni a Major League caliber artist ... it seemed the proper level of the sport for comparison ... and oh boy, I'd best quit before I get into some REAL hot water. Don Rowe ===== Visit me anytime at http://www.mp3.com/donrowe Yahoo! Auctions - buy the things you want at great prices http://auctions.yahoo.com/ ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 04 May 2001 22:26:02 -0700 From: Jan Lumholdt Subject: Re: The top 10 Joni songs... Oops, I used one of our funny Scandinavian letters. It is, of course Skaal and nothing else! So Skaal to you all and thanks for the cheerful welcome. /Jan > i loved this line!!!!!!! > skel all the way back from argentina! > wallyK, who thinks king gustav is soooooooo good-looking -- and a taurus to > boot! > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> > Skel from Jan in Stockholm (who saw her beside our king when she received > the Polar music awards and thought "you better behave, you're standing next > to royalty". Luckily, he did.) ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 04 May 2001 22:26:25 -0700 From: Jan Lumholdt Subject: Re: The top 10 Joni songs... Oops, I used one of our funny Scandinavian letters. It is, of course Skaal and nothing else! So Skaal to you all and thanks for the cheerful welcome. /Jan > i loved this line!!!!!!! > skel all the way back from argentina! > wallyK, who thinks king gustav is soooooooo good-looking -- and a taurus to > boot! > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> > Skel from Jan in Stockholm (who saw her beside our king when she received > the Polar music awards and thought "you better behave, you're standing next > to royalty". Luckily, he did.) ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 04 May 2001 21:30:25 +0100 From: catman Subject: Re: The top 10 Joni songs... MOI? FMYFL@aol.com wrote: > Paul Ivice wrote: > > << nothing after Hejira measures up to anything > > she did from Blue through Hejira. > > and Colin responded with: > > < I disagree. Thos I like THSOL and Hejira very much, I also like DED,NRH and > TI > very much. I guess I prfer those works out of all ogf them tho i'd add STAS. > > I am sure others would have still a different list. I don't think Joni was > past > it when she wrote DED TI or NRH. >> > > I'd have to agree with Colin. Even though Hejira is my all time favorite, I > *love* TI and NRH and in my opinion they do measure up to Joni's '76 and > earlier works. Paul might be right that the majority of the list does prefer > her earlier work, but not necessarily by me. In fact, I know one lister who > shall remain nameless (but his/her middle initial is D. ) doesn't even own > any Joni prior to MOI. :~) > > Jimmy - -- bw colin BRO GC, 950i 940,864, 260, 890,Silver 830 and 270, Passap 6000 Duo80 colin@tantra.fsbusiness.co.uk http://www.geocities.com/tantra_apso/index.html ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 04 May 2001 21:32:19 +0100 From: catman Subject: Re: The top 10 Joni songs... The ones I play the most are NRH, TI, DED, Hejira, THOSL and STAS. The ones I play the least: CMIAR,WTFR,Mingus,BSN, TT and DJRD Middling ones are all the rest! FMYFL@aol.com wrote: > Paul Ivice wrote: > > << nothing after Hejira measures up to anything > > she did from Blue through Hejira. > > and Colin responded with: > > < I disagree. Thos I like THSOL and Hejira very much, I also like DED,NRH and > TI > very much. I guess I prfer those works out of all ogf them tho i'd add STAS. > > I am sure others would have still a different list. I don't think Joni was > past > it when she wrote DED TI or NRH. >> > > I'd have to agree with Colin. Even though Hejira is my all time favorite, I > *love* TI and NRH and in my opinion they do measure up to Joni's '76 and > earlier works. Paul might be right that the majority of the list does prefer > her earlier work, but not necessarily by me. In fact, I know one lister who > shall remain nameless (but his/her middle initial is D. ) doesn't even own > any Joni prior to MOI. :~) > > Jimmy - -- bw colin BRO GC, 950i 940,864, 260, 890,Silver 830 and 270, Passap 6000 Duo80 colin@tantra.fsbusiness.co.uk http://www.geocities.com/tantra_apso/index.html ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 4 May 2001 16:28:08 -0500 From: "Mike Hicks" Subject: Re: The top 10 Joni songs.../the songwriter's peak > Date: Fri, 4 May 2001 13:07:14 -0700 (PDT) > From: Don Rowe > Subject: Re: The top 10 Joni songs.../the songwriter's peak > To: "Brenda J. Walker" , joni@smoe.org > Reply-to: Don Rowe > To Paul IV's comparison of songwriters and baseball > players ... that's not exactly a proper analogy. > Baseball is a constant physical challenge that an > individual player's body either meets or does not as > he ages. *(please see note below) > > Songwriting, on the other hand, is dynamic -- allowing > artists to change, grow and remain strong throughout > their career. Baseball players sometimes have to change due to injury or ageing. Look at some major leaguers like Danny Darwin and John Smoltz. These are pitchers whom have had to revert to knuckle balls and change-ups to get hitters out, rather than throwing by everybody. So, yes some can adjust and still be quite effective. Some of the better hitters like Rod Carew and Tony Gwynn got(get) better with age. Instead of trying to jerk every ball out of the park, they adjusted as they aged and tried to be a complete hitter by taking balls to opposite field. So, to double the conflict of the post here you go. Mike ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 4 May 2001 15:40:54 -0700 From: "Susan Guzzi" Subject: Stuff - NJC Randy Remote wrote: I had always imagined that "Jack" was Jack Cassidy, bassist for Jefferson Airplane. But what the hell do I know. Grace Jones-was she even around in '74? Actually I saw Grace Slick and the Starship around that time (Chicago Auditorium) ... and Grace was dressed in a Japanese Kimono-like dress and some sandals. I don't recall a fan, but it certainly seems like she may have accessorized with one. I keep trying to picture if she did and my mind certainly sees one now, but 74 was the height of my mind altering substances usage and I really couldn't claim to have a memory that includes a fan. As far as Grace Jones is concerned, I know her "Night Clubbing" album came out around 80. I remember her somewhat before that, but I agree Randy, I am not sure if she goes as far back as 74. (The Rev) Vince wrote: > Moments like this I want to play Survivor with you all and vote a bunch > of folks off! > > > (The Rev) Vince who loves everyone but has had it with snippy never shut > up and leave it alone posts from people who need to get a bit more of a > life, please! Hell wrote: And just to really annoy everyone even further - me too! Hell Thanks Rev. Wouldn't it be nice if someone gave a war and nobody came! (showing my age) And Hell, I love that you "me too'd it!" (not acting my age) Well just trying to play catch up as per usual. Posting my one post for the week or two. Hey what's up with this Midwest Fest? Afterall, I am so far away here in Chicago! All my archived JMDLs were destroyed in yet another office e-mail update, so I can't reference back issues to get info and dates. Please feel free to contact me here or at home - chachaguz@webtv.net with any info. Special thanks to Ashara for all her encouragement to attend New England Fest, I should be decided and confirmed within the next week. Now to get vocally prepared and in shape - vocally. Don't count on any miracles other than vocally! Apparently I need to send a picture as well ... current or at any age? Peace Susan ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 4 May 2001 16:53:55 EDT From: FMYFL@aol.com Subject: Re: The top 10 Joni songs... In a message dated 5/4/01 4:28:17 PM Eastern Daylight Time, colin@tantra.fsbusiness.co.uk writes: > MOI? > > oops, moi' meant to say MOA...................not that I would ever correct your spelling Colin :~D Jimmy ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 04 May 2001 22:19:54 +0100 From: catman Subject: Re: The top 10 Joni songs... Oh jimmy-I wasn't correcting your spelling. My brain wasn't in gear and I just didn't know what you meant, obvious as it now seems! FMYFL@aol.com wrote: > In a message dated 5/4/01 4:28:17 PM Eastern Daylight Time, > colin@tantra.fsbusiness.co.uk writes: > > > >> MOI? >> > > oops, moi' meant to say MOA...................not that I would ever > correct > your spelling Colin :~D > > Jimmy - -- bw colin BRO GC, 950i 940,864, 260, 890,Silver 830 and 270, Passap 6000 Duo80 colin@tantra.fsbusiness.co.uk http://www.geocities.com/tantra_apso/index.html ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 4 May 2001 17:31:25 EDT From: AsharaJM@aol.com Subject: Re: Stuff - NJC Susan wrote: > Special thanks to Ashara for all her encouragement to attend New England > Fest, > I should be decided and confirmed within the next week. Now to get vocally > prepared and in shape - vocally. Don't count on any miracles other than > vocally! Apparently I need to send a picture as well ... current or at any > age? > Uh, that would be current, Susan. :-) To all you other Festers, and falling-off-the-fencers, I have only received 3 pictures, and about 10 checks and questionnaires. I know it seems "to early to send stuff in" but the fact is, there is a LOT of organizing to do with over 60 people expected, and I really need to have this stuff early!! Thanks! Hugs, Ashara ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 4 May 2001 18:07:28 EDT From: SCJoniGuy@aol.com Subject: Re: The top 10 Joni songs... << On the subject of which period of Joni's career is the best, I would say she has different age groups of fans getting into different phases of her career, all of them equally important. >> I would say so too, Jan, because I see it on this list all the time! There's about a 30-year span between our oldest and youngest member, and the favorite albums & periods are equally across the board! Proof to Joni's genius & depth of talent... Welcome to the JMDL, thanks for the intro & the great post - keep 'em coming! Bob ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 4 May 2001 18:25:18 EDT From: IVPAUL42@aol.com Subject: Re: The top 10 Joni songs... In a message dated 5/4/01 4:28:17 PM Eastern Daylight Time, colin@tantra.fsbusiness.co.uk writes: << MOI? >> No doubt he meant Miles of Aisles. MOA ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 4 May 2001 19:50:35 -0400 From: "Jim L'Hommedieu" Subject: Re: How to wash a cat [md] First it was knocking Bjork. Now, it's cats. This "Deste" character must be stopped. Next thing you know, he'll be slamming national treasures like JFK, Yoko Ono, and socialized medicine! All good people need to band together and stop him! Who's **WITH** me? Don Rowe hee hee hee, I'm soooo funny. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 5 May 2001 12:11:24 +1200 From: "hell" Subject: Happy jmdler - NJC I am one VERY happy kiwi today! Just found out I've won a t-shirt on Richard Isen's site - persistance pays off, I've been spinning that wheel every day for weeks! And my copy of Jonatha's new CD has just arrived in record time from the US - signed even! I did cheat, and downloaded a couple of songs (after I'd ordered it) from Napster, to get a taste. God, I LOVE this CD! Anyone who is wondering what all the fuss is about this woman, buy any of her CDs, and you'll know. She is an incredible singer/songwriter. Hell NP: Jonatha (with Neil Finn - another kiwi!) - New Dress. LOUD! ____________________________ "To have great poets, there must be great audiences too." - Walt Whitman hell@ihug.co.nz Hell's Personal Photo Page: http://homepages.ihug.co.nz/~hell/main/personal.htm Visit the NBLs (Natural Born Losers) at: http://www.nbls.co.nz ------------------------------ End of JMDL Digest V2001 #206 ***************************** ------- Post messages to the list by clicking here: mailto:joni@smoe.org Unsubscribe by clicking here: mailto:joni-digest-request@smoe.org?body=unsubscribe ------- Siquomb, isn't she?