From: les@jmdl.com (JMDL Digest) To: joni-digest@smoe.org Subject: JMDL Digest V2001 #199 Reply-To: joni@smoe.org Sender: les@jmdl.com Errors-To: les@jmdl.com Precedence: bulk Unsubscribe: mailto:joni-digest-request@smoe.org?body=unsubscribe Archives: http://www.smoe.org/lists/joni Websites: http://www.jmdl.com http://www.jonimitchell.com JMDL Digest Monday, April 30 2001 Volume 2001 : Number 199 The 'Official' Joni Mitchell Homepage, created by Wally Breese, can be found at http://www.jonimitchell.com. It contains the latest news, a detailed bio, Original Interviews, essays, lyrics and much much more. The JMDL website can be found at http://www.jmdl.com and contains interviews, articles, the member gallery, archives, and much more. Information on the 4th "Annual" New England JoniFest: http://www.jmdl.com/jfne2001.cfm The Joni Chat Room: http://www.jmdl.com/chat.cfm ========== TOPICS and authors in this Digest: -------- Re: Joni & Leonard Cohen ["Kakki" ] Re: Joni talking ["Kakki" ] foni mitchell website (NJC) [Fonimitchell@aol.com] Boxed Set, Rolling Thunder Review [Mitch327@aol.com] Re: Eric Andersen (some Joni content) NJC [SCJoniGuy@aol.com] RE: Joni talking ["Deb Messling" ] joni reference ["shane mattison" ] The Four Tops njc [philipf@tinet.ie] Re: joni and adolescence ["P. Henry Boland" ] Re: Boxed Set, Rolling Thunder Review [SCJoniGuy@aol.com] Re: Joni & Leonard Cohen [philipf@tinet.ie] Re: Joni & Leonard Cohen (long) ["Blair Fraipont" ] Re: Eric Andersen (some Joni content) NJC [SMEBD@aol.com] Re: Joni talking [Catherine McKay ] Re: Joni talking ["Kakki" ] Re: joni reference ["Kakki" ] Re: Joni & Leonard Cohen and US News and World Report [Coyote4Joni@aol.co] RE: Eric Anderson NJC [john low ] Re: Eric Andersen NJC [john low ] ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Sun, 29 Apr 2001 00:53:32 -0700 From: "Kakki" Subject: Re: Joni & Leonard Cohen Lama wrote: > Okay. First off, I agree with you, as always, dear. I don't find it > offensive. That said, some people just don't like "gossip". If a friend > told you about personal detail, that's cool and part of why friends are > important to each other- we share a layer of intimacy that strangers don't. > But if you then discuss that personal detail with 5 others, to some people, > it's gossip and unseemly. (Or in this case, 700 others...) But my context was when Joni gives an interview that is broadcast to or read by thousands of people or reveals stuff at a concert of 100s or 1000s of people. I can't recall anything personal about Joni discussed here that she or her family or intimates did not already talk about to the media. So if we discuss something we learned from a public source from them, is that gossip? Look at how much she reveals in her art, also. There have been drawings and paintings (some rather initimate) of Jackson, James Taylor, Nash, Klein and Donald out there on public display and published in the STARART and Mendel books for a long time. Are we supposed to look at those paintings and say "oh but we can't talk about it being a painting of Donald french kissing her because that would be gossiping and discussing her personal business"? Doesn't that seem silly? By the way, if I was ever in a situation to where Joni revealed something personal to me, I'd never share it with the list! > Anyway, I'm so glad you're back. Thank you ;-) Kakki ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 29 Apr 2001 01:38:32 -0700 From: "Kakki" Subject: Re: Joni talking Catherine wrote: > I guess I just wasn't aware that Joni did this. I've > only seen her in concert twice, and I don't recall her > naming names. She probably doesn't do it so much at the large concerts that most of us have seen. I guess you have not been one of the bunch who have gotten addicted to collecting the tape trees (sometimes a lot of work but worth it in the long run ;-) In her earlier days performing in smaller venues she did chat about the different characters in her songs. I also have a video from some Canadian TV show where she introduces a new song she wrote "Dawntreader" and works into the intro how she misses her new boyfriend who is down in Florida on his boat (David Crosby). She has also talked about the inspiration for or characters in many of her songs often over the years in interviews. We know she likes to chat and once she gets going she can be very revealing. I'm enough of a nerd that I've read a ton of the articles in the JMDL database - they are always entertaining and insightful reading. She has also said that she does want people to take the music from their own viewpoint and not get caught up in what it meant to her, but I think that's a moot point. I see Philip's point - as a former Art major/English minor, it was always a standard part of the curriculum to discuss the personal inspirations, life and motivations of all the great writers, poets and artists we studied. Maybe that was more acceptable because, in most cases, the artists or writers were far removed from present day. Joni is still with us and still creating, so maybe it is not entirely proper to be dissecting the motivations behind her art just yet. On the other hand, thankfully, she has long been recognized as a legend in her own time and people don't have to wait a hundred years or so into the future to be acknowledging or discovering her genius. Interesting to think that there could be an "Introduction to Joni Mitchell 101" or Defiance of Genres and Labels - the life of Joni Mitchell" or "Hissing of Summer Lawns and the Sociology of Late 20th Century Suburbia" in university courses at some point in the future ;-D Kakki ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 29 Apr 2001 07:30:40 EDT From: Fonimitchell@aol.com Subject: foni mitchell website (NJC) Hello everybody. Our website has been causing us problems - thanks AOL! We have a new-look much improved site which we are waiting to upload, which can be accessed via our temporary address: http://website.lineone.net/~fonimitchell Please take a few moments to have a look and maybe let us know what you think using the e-mail link. If you're feeling adventurous, you can even read it in a variety of languages! Much love to all. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 29 Apr 2001 07:53:58 EDT From: Mitch327@aol.com Subject: Boxed Set, Rolling Thunder Review All, Couple of items: I thought I remember hearing about a Joni boxed set some time back. Does any know anything about this? Does she have a lot of songs that were recorded in the studio but never released? I know I have a Fairport Convention CD, and they do a great song entitled "Eastern Rain" that she never recorded. I saw the Dylan Rolling Thunder Review show at Madison Square Garden in 1975 (I was 15 at the time), and I saw Joni perform a couple of songs. Does any know what songs she performed? I see John Hammond popping up in a lot of NP's on the list. I saw him for the first time a couple of months ago and was blown away. He strides onto the stage with his worn guitars (6-string in one hand, National Steel in the other), and proceeds to line up his 3-4 harmonicas on a little stool, and then he just starts wailing. Mitch NP: John Hammond, "I Can't Be Satisfied (Live)" you guys got me in the mood! ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 29 Apr 2001 07:47:08 EDT From: SCJoniGuy@aol.com Subject: Re: Eric Andersen (some Joni content) NJC << I gather he has always had quite a large following in America >> Maybe in the folk world, John, but I'd never heard of him prior to joining this list. I'm not sure I'd describe his following as 'quite large'... Thanks for sharing the Garcia/Hornsby stuff! Bob ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 29 Apr 2001 08:43:20 -0400 From: "Deb Messling" Subject: RE: Joni talking Like Kakki, I draw most of my gossip from Joni herself! And sometimes my motivation for even mentioning the "gossip" is to counteract some implausible speculation with Joni's own words. > very revealing. I'm enough of a nerd that I've read a ton of the articles > in the JMDL database - they are always entertaining and > insightful reading. Do all new listers know of the tremendous resources available on jmdl.com? Not to take anything away from the official site, but the article database is among the best - no, THE best -- of any "fan" site I've ever seen. It's also easily searchable, so great kernels of information can be retrieved with a click. > it was always a standard part of the curriculum to discuss the personal > inspirations, life and motivations of all the great writers, poets and > artists we studied. Kakki's lucky; I came of academic age under the "New Criticism" model where discussion of a writer's personal life was verboten. It was so sterile. - ----------------------------------- Deb Messling =^..^= - ----------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 29 Apr 2001 09:16:25 -0600 From: "shane mattison" Subject: joni reference Diane wrote: <> i like that, diane...i've usually found joni to be spiritually rewarding...her compassion for others has been powerful from early songs like "For Free" and just generally tuning into the reality of the subjects of her songs, a certain capability to walk in other people's moccasins... "don juan's reckless daughter's" title track, her wrestling between the eagle of spirit and the serpent of desire...the ambience of "paprika plains"...how she can capture devastatingly the pink flamingo atmosphere in songs like "otis and marlena"... then she satisfyingly set to music the love passage in 13 Corinthians in the last song "Love" from "Wild Things Run Free"... "Dog Eat Dog" is revealing in more depth and intensity her social prophetic role, sounding not hugely different from the hebrew prophets... sometimes her prophetic spirit is coupled with native beats, jangling trinkets and shakers...coming to view things from the perspective of the 'land and the sky'...somewhat similar to francis ford coppola's "koyaanisqatsi", hopi aboriginal vision... in "Night Ride Home", she inserts herself into the gospel journey in the song "Passion Play" identifying herself with mary magdalen and zacchaeus and referring to the 'magical physician' and this 'heart healer'... personally, i love "The Sire of Sorrow" (Job's Sad Song), from "Turbulent Indigo" a long and powerful exploration of the character of Job and his struggles...i believe Sire of Sorrow to be one of joni's finest compositions...rythmically exciting, prophetic...universal... and last, in a couple of video interviews she has revealed or spoken of her spiritual side...with Pamela Wallin in LA she spoke of her zen meditation and in her recent interview on Much More Music she spoke of her native spiritual interests....intriguingly of the four directions and how she is aware of them when she performs...she once said that the i ching influenced her choice of a music career and setting out on her stunning path... many influences all put together and explored in joni's emphasis on the universal values of "truth and beauty", the two things that represent the yin and yang of her creative work... thanks diane... shane www.angelfire.com/art/cactussong ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 29 Apr 2001 16:26:11 +0100 From: philipf@tinet.ie Subject: The Four Tops njc I went to see the pop and soultastic Four Tops on Friday night. I've always felt that The Four Tops were among the brightest shining cogs in the Motown factory of sound. They were playing in a local beer palace and it was after midnight when I got there. Some software engineers were getting rowdy so I proceeded forwards where The Four Tops were already storming through one of my favourites, It's The Same Old Song. The Four Tops sang, danced and finger poped with a full ensemble of brass, drums, piano, guitar and bass . It didn't matter that only one original Top remains in the line up as glorious hits like I Can't Help Myself, Reach Out, I'll Be There and Bernadette poured forth. The crowd loved it but the excitement dropped for me a little when they needlessly raided the back catalogues of Otis Redding, Wilson Pickett and Ray Charles for cover versions while leaving out their own hits Walk Away Renee and If I Were a Carpenter, written by Joni's pal Tim Hardin. I was chatting with a lady from the brass section afterwards and it turns out that all the backing band are from England. The promoter told me the fee and I'd guess that the original Top is making more now than he ever earned from Berry Gordy. Philip NP Tortoise - TNT ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 30 Apr 2001 01:35:11 +1000 From: "P. Henry Boland" Subject: Re: joni and adolescence (many moons ago) Jodcrazee@aol.com wrote: >>Joni Mitchell and booze got me through adolescence.>> Joni Mitchell got me through adolescence... personally. pat Get 250 color business cards for FREE! http://businesscards.lycos.com/vp/fastpath/ ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 29 Apr 2001 11:40:53 EDT From: SCJoniGuy@aol.com Subject: Re: Boxed Set, Rolling Thunder Review << I thought I remember hearing about a Joni boxed set some time back. Does any know anything about this?>> Joni thinks that "Hits & Misses" are her "boxed set". I've never heard anything from her or from her management camp that there is anything in the works that would encompass early/unreleased/rare recordings. Hopefully, someday we will see such a project as she is certainly a worthy candidate. <> Yes, and many of us have a version of Joni singing it too, along with Brandy Eyes, Gift of the Magi, Born To Take the Highway, Day After Day, Carnival in Kenora, and a lot, lot more. The most recent one I've gotten my hands on is a recording of Joni singing "Play Little David, Play" that's also great to hear. There are a couple covers of Joni's songs that she never recorded. Eastern Rain that you mentioned is one, as are Born To Take the Highway by The Foggy Dew-O, Midnight Cowboy by Donal Leace, Dr. Junk by Ian Campbell, and who knows what else may be out there and uncovered! It's a very exciting world to me... One of the greatest opportunities this group provides is the free sharing of Joni's concerts and early treasures like the stuff you're talking about. I'll be glad to set you up with these recordings if you're interested... <> From what I've seen, her set was mostly Coyote, Don't Interrupt the Sorrow, and Edith & the Kingpin. I only have one of those sets currently, but I'm hoping for more in the near future. You can do some searches on the internet and there are some informative references. << I see John Hammond popping up in a lot of NP's on the list. I saw him for the first time a couple of months ago and was blown away. He strides onto the stage with his worn guitars (6-string in one hand, National Steel in the other), and proceeds to line up his 3-4 harmonicas on a little stool, and then he just starts wailing. >> I saw him at Clemson University a few years back. He's extremely talented, and can get an orchestra's worth of sound out of his lone guitar. If I'm not mistaken, he is the son of legendary A&R man John Hammond, who discovered and brought to the forefront many incredible talents, Bruce Springsteen among them. Bob ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 29 Apr 2001 16:56:24 +0100 From: philipf@tinet.ie Subject: Re: Joni & Leonard Cohen - ----- Original Message ----- From: Catherine McKay > Good points. They'd have to give her a very special > doctorate, I think - kind of like there are degrees of > black belts. What she does is so beyond what others > have done. > Get your free @yahoo.ca address at http://mail.yahoo.ca > Yep I suppose you're right. No award is good enough. It would have to be very very very very very special. And they'd have to get God to present it. Philip ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 29 Apr 2001 12:45:07 -0400 From: "Blair Fraipont" Subject: Re: Joni & Leonard Cohen (long) This may relate a bit in how to approach our appreciation of a musician/star/composer. In Brad Mehldau's 1999 album, "Art of the Trio 4, Back at the Vanguard" he states the following; The problem with a big portion of writing on jazz is that is lags behind the music. More like rock journalism, it draws on biographical hearsay about the artist, but with an added pretense: it uses these speculations to make general,sweeping musical judgments. That's a form of sophistry with the worst aspects of classical and pop writing. It has all the mystification that comes along with pop's personlaity cult, with an air of self-righeteous assurance that parodies clasical criticism. Then throw in a fetishism for the past, fueled, ironcially, by half-baked ideas about a recent renaissance. Let me clarify: how a player crooks his head into the piano or battles with substance abuse is not comparative criticism; what he does with melody, harmony, rhythm, and form, is. I know this is more about Journalistic criticism, but he makes a good point. We all like to know about Joni and her reasons for song inspirations, etc. But we shouldnt take that too far. For Instance When i was in high school, I had a small fetish with that Joni look circa 1979 Shadows and light. I loved the way she looked when she played guitar and sang..I liked her expressions,etc almost a bit more than the music, but those feelings faded, which is good. But, That is from me. bLair, now 21! NP:Shakin' all over, The Who Live at Leeds _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 29 Apr 2001 11:08:27 -0700 (PDT) From: Tyler Hewitt Subject: filing the collection All this talk about where to file stuff made me remember back a few years when I worked at Tower records before going to grad school. Many of those memories are lost in a cannabis fog ( everything you've imagined about working in a record store is true, and when in Rome...), but I do remember the pointless filing system. At this store, there were seperate sections for rock and alternative rock. this was supposedly based on the style of a particular band, but the second a band signed to a major label, all of their cd's would get moved to the rock section, even if their sound hadn't changed. then there were those customers who would only shop in the alternative section, because it was more 'cool'. I'm serious. forget about the music, the section you bought it from is more important! When the store finally ditched the alternative section (after listening to me and other emplotees bitch for over a year) we had customers complain immediately that they no longer knew what to buy! One day I was feeling misanthropic and a little hungover, and was hanging out in the Classical room to avoid customers. Some kid comes in off of the escalator, goes immediately into classical, looks around quickly, and asks me "Is there any alternative?" I answered "To what?" This kid just stared at me with a blank expression on his face for about 20 seconds. Fighting back laughter, I ponted him in the right direction. I file my huge cd collection at home alphabetically by artist/composer, regardless of genre. It's Bach next to the Beatles and Shonen Knife next to Shostakovitch. It's too hard to break it up into types of music, and besides, where would I file my John Zorn? Yahoo! Auctions - buy the things you want at great prices http://auctions.yahoo.com/ ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 29 Apr 2001 14:14:52 EDT From: SMEBD@aol.com Subject: Re: Eric Andersen (some Joni content) NJC In a message dated 04/29/2001 8:03:29 AM Eastern Daylight Time, SCJoniGuy@aol.com writes: > I gather he has always had > quite a large following in America >> > > Maybe in the folk world, John, but I'd never heard of him prior to joining > this list. I'm not sure I'd describe his following as 'quite large'... > > I think that Eric was very well respected in the late '60s/early '70s within the "Folk" community/audiences. Judy Collins recorded his song "Thirsty Boots" on her 5th LP. I used to see him in some of the Folk clubs in Greenwich Village during the '80's--he would usually attract a nice crowd, but the clubs were fairly small. I know that he and Joni were friends at one point, and I imagine this was one of the reasons he participated in Joni's Jazz. "Blue River" is a great LP/CD and is well worth owning, IMHO. Stephen ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 29 Apr 2001 15:47:31 -0400 (EDT) From: Catherine McKay Subject: Re: Joni talking - --- Kakki wrote: > Catherine wrote: > >I'm enough of a nerd that I've read > a ton of the articles > in the JMDL database - they are always entertaining > and insightful reading. > She has also said that she does want people to take > the music from their own > viewpoint and not get caught up in what it meant to > her, but I think that's > a moot point. Whoa, there - that doesn't make you a nerd (I don't think). I find I don't have enough time to be on the jmdl AND read the articles, so maybe I should un-sub and bone up on my Joni 101, then come back an expert ;) Get your free @yahoo.ca address at http://mail.yahoo.ca ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 29 Apr 2001 16:02:24 -0700 From: "Kakki" Subject: Re: Joni talking Deb wrote: > Do all new listers know of the tremendous resources available on jmdl.com? > Not to take anything away from the official site, but the article database > is among the best - no, THE best -- of any "fan" site I've ever seen. It's > also easily searchable, so great kernels of information can be retrieved > with a click. And if not in large part to you, Deb, this database may have never been. See, it's all your fault that some of us have become walking datafiles of Joni details ;-) But seriously, you can be very proud that what you started has become such an important resource to so many, including authors such as Stacy Luftig and other professional researchers. > Kakki's lucky; I came of academic age under the "New Criticism" model where > discussion of a writer's personal life was verboten. It was so sterile. Wow, this amazes me - I had no idea. I've been out of touch with academic trends in the liberal arts since I left undergrad long ago. Sterile indeed. I wonder if that model would, for example, extend to excluding the private letters of Van Gogh to brother Theo. Another example I recall are in-depth discussions in my *high school* English class about the colorful (scandalous at the time) and intertwined private friendships between Lord Byron, Mary Shelley and Percy Shelley and how they affected, influenced and inspired each other's poetry and writings. Kakki ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 29 Apr 2001 16:37:15 -0700 From: "Kakki" Subject: Re: joni reference Great post, Shane! >"Dog Eat Dog" is revealing in more depth and intensity her social prophetic > role, sounding not hugely different from the hebrew prophets... I love this comparison to the Hebrew prophets! It's an area of great interest to me and one which I have always encouraged my friends to read. Regarding the DED album, I have a close friend who (sadly to me) just isn't affected all that much by music. It just doesn't do that much for him. He knows all about my interest in Joni and thinks it's great but his knowledge of her was always limited to "I know she wrote Big Yellow Taxi." He is, however, a junkie for good writing. One time we were engaged in an email back and forth about philosophy and current events. I can't remember the subject now, but at one point in the discussion, I emailed him back saying "Joni says it best on this" and wrote out the lyrics to the song "Dog Eat Dog." Well, he completely flipped out and wrote back that it was the most fantastic and brilliant piece of social commentary that he had ever read. His interest in Joni skyrocketed after that - "She's a GEEEENIUS!!" and he thereafter had me play the album for him about ten times in one night while he immersed himself in his new find. ;-) On another note of synchronicity, there was this blurb in Friday's Los Angeles Daily Journal (the local lawyers' news) "The Buzz" column: "...some of the vanity license plates I've been seeing in downtown Los Angeles lately have "The Buzz" wondering. For instance, does the DGEATDG plates on a white Mercedes S600 belong to a lawyer, a banker or a freakish caterer?" Maybe it belongs to Klein or maybe it's a companion car to the guy who has the JUST ICE plates ;-) Kakki ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 29 Apr 2001 21:19:08 EDT From: Coyote4Joni@aol.com Subject: Re: Joni & Leonard Cohen and US News and World Report In a message dated 4/28/01 4:50:01 PM Pacific Daylight Time, philipf@tinet.ie writes: Philip Wrote: Maybe it's time that Joni was awarded an honorary doctorate in music. Bob Dylan and some other pop people, Paul McCartney I think, got them. A very interested Coyote adds: The April 30th edition of US News and World Report (the one with Laura Bush on the cover)has a feisty little article titled "Rewriting Women and Rock." It's an interesting, brief essay, I would suppose, on how archivists and others have not properly respected nor correctly understood the women of rock and roll's history. And yes, there is a Joni mention and a nice (albeit very familiar) young Joni picture, to boot. Dan Gilgoff reports that New York Times critic Ann Powers asked, "Are there 20 biographies of Joni Mitchell like there are of Bob Dylan...I don't think so." [That's it for the Joni mention.] Gilgoff goes on to report "When Rolling Stone released it's Illustrated History of Rock & Roll in 1992, only four of nearly 100 chapters were devoted to women. The Ronettes, the Crystals, and the Shangi-Las were squeezed into a three-page chapter titled 'The Girl Groups.' An entire chapter went to Phil Spector alone." Hmmm.. No regrets, Coyote Rick Casa Alegre (Finally) Hollywood, California ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 30 Apr 2001 13:53:01 +1000 From: john low Subject: RE: Eric Anderson NJC Paul I wrote: "I like his "Is It Really Love At All," and have used it on several compilation tapes." This is indeed a beautiful song, the first track on "Blue River" and what a marvelous introduction to the album! I also particularly like "Wind And Sand". And Stephen said: "'Blue River' is a great LP/CD and is well worth owning, IMHO." I agree. "Blue River" was my introduction to Eric Andersen. Quiet, reflective songs in abundance! His voice reminded me at first of James Taylor. "Memory of the Future" (1998) is quite different, with (I guess) a more mature outlook. It has some very interesting songs, "Rain Falls Down in Amsterdam" for example, a dark and disturbing song about neo-Nazism in Europe. Its good to see another artist of the Dylan/Joni generation still producing serious work. I think Ill try for Ghosts on the Road next. Cheers, John. __________________________________________________________________ Get your free Australian email account at http://www.start.com.au ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 30 Apr 2001 13:57:29 +1000 From: john low Subject: Re: Eric Andersen NJC Original message from: SCJoniGuy@aol.com > ><< I gather he has always had > quite a large following in America >> > >Maybe in the folk world, John, but I'd never heard of him prior to joining >this list. I'm not sure I'd describe his following as 'quite large'... > >Thanks for sharing the Garcia/Hornsby stuff! > >Bob Thanks, Bob. I read somewhere that he lives part of the year in one of the Scandinavian countries (I cant remember) and part in New York. Maybe, he has developed a following in Europe. Also, you might be interested to know that Richard Thompson plays on Memory of the Future. Regards, John. __________________________________________________________________ Get your free Australian email account at http://www.start.com.au ------------------------------ End of JMDL Digest V2001 #199 ***************************** ------- Post messages to the list by clicking here: mailto:joni@smoe.org Unsubscribe by clicking here: mailto:joni-digest-request@smoe.org?body=unsubscribe ------- Siquomb, isn't she?