From: les@jmdl.com (JMDL Digest) To: joni-digest@smoe.org Subject: JMDL Digest V2001 #191 Reply-To: joni@smoe.org Sender: les@jmdl.com Errors-To: les@jmdl.com Precedence: bulk Unsubscribe: mailto:joni-digest-request@smoe.org?body=unsubscribe Archives: http://www.smoe.org/lists/joni Websites: http://www.jmdl.com http://www.jonimitchell.com JMDL Digest Tuesday, April 24 2001 Volume 2001 : Number 191 The 'Official' Joni Mitchell Homepage, created by Wally Breese, can be found at http://www.jonimitchell.com. It contains the latest news, a detailed bio, Original Interviews, essays, lyrics and much much more. The JMDL website can be found at http://www.jmdl.com and contains interviews, articles, the member gallery, archives, and much more. Information on the 4th "Annual" New England JoniFest: http://www.jmdl.com/jfne2001.cfm The Joni Chat Room: http://www.jmdl.com/chat.cfm ========== TOPICS and authors in this Digest: -------- Re: the album form [IVPAUL42@aol.com] Re: the album form/fair use and libraries... [IVPAUL42@aol.com] Re: the album form/fair use and libraries... ["Brenda J. Walker" ] rick wakeman/bruce labruce njc ["Wally Kairuz" ] Re: 1972 McGovern Campaign trail - James and Carey ["Kakki" ] virus [catman ] Re: Something - GH lyrics (NJC) [M.Russell@iaea.org] Re: Something In The Way She Moves - JT lyrics [M.Russell@iaea.org] she's back!!!! njc ["Wally Kairuz" ] remember when ( njc) ["shane mattison" ] LSD and lestat ["shane mattison" ] RE: Something In The Way She Moves - JT lyrics ["Deb Messling" ] RE: she's back!!!! njc [M.Russell@iaea.org] Re: Duncan Shiek covers Joni [Jerry Notaro ] Corrections..... NJC ["Jim L'Hommedieu" ] Re: 1972 McGovern Campaign trail - James and Carey [RoseMJoy@aol.com] Re: Ian Whitcomb (NJC) [philipf@tinet.ie] Re: JMDL Digest V2001 #187 [philipf@tinet.ie] Re: the album form/fair use and libraries... NJC ["Brenda J. Walker" ] Busy or what? njc [Catherine McKay ] Re: the album form [Catherine McKay ] Re: Down with TLAs! [Catherine McKay ] Re: NJC Something [Catherine McKay ] Re: Fw: 1972 McGovern Campaign trail [Catherine McKay ] House Concert at Victor's... ["Steve Harper" ] Re: the album form/this year's new music NJC ["Brenda J. Walker" ] ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Tue, 24 Apr 2001 03:06:19 EDT From: IVPAUL42@aol.com Subject: Re: the album form In a message dated 4/24/01 1:38:07 AM Eastern Daylight Time, brenda@killinggoliath.com writes: << One thing that I misstated was personal use....it should be noncommercial use. >> Thanks for the clarification and information. Paul I ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 24 Apr 2001 03:11:57 EDT From: IVPAUL42@aol.com Subject: Re: the album form/fair use and libraries... In a message dated 4/24/01 2:57:34 AM Eastern Daylight Time, brenda@killinggoliath.com writes: << I am admittedly not a lawyer, but can you honestly tell me that I would be charged with infringement and that I could not prevail using the fair use doctrine, if I made one copy for my own noncommercial use? I know that libraries set their own rules, some stating no copying and others posting the rules for copying relative to fair use. >> The rule or law you posted allows the libary to make copies for lendin to its patrons and excuses the library and its employees from liability if you, the library patron, illegally uses its equipment to make a copy of something protected by copyright law. I don't see anything in there that makes it OK for the patron to copy for personal use. Paul I ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 24 Apr 2001 00:29:16 -0700 From: "Brenda J. Walker" Subject: Re: the album form/fair use and libraries... Fair use means that my use of the equipement would NOT be illegal. IVPAUL42@aol.com wrote: > In a message dated 4/24/01 2:57:34 AM Eastern Daylight Time, > brenda@killinggoliath.com writes: > > << > I am admittedly not a lawyer, but can you honestly tell me that I would be > charged with infringement and that I could not prevail using the fair use > doctrine, if I made one copy for my own noncommercial use? > > I know that libraries set their own rules, some stating no copying and others > posting the rules for copying relative to fair use. >> > The rule or law you posted allows the libary to make copies for lendin to > its patrons and excuses the library and its employees from liability if you, > the library patron, illegally uses its equipment to make a copy of something > protected by copyright law. I don't see anything in there that makes it OK > for the patron to copy for personal use. > > Paul I ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 24 Apr 2001 00:36:50 -0700 From: "Brenda J. Walker" Subject: Re: the album form/fair use and libraries... To clarify.... (2) excuses a person who uses such reproducing equipment or who requests a copy or phonorecord under subsection (d) from liability for copyright infringement for any such act, or for any later use of such copy or phonorecord, if it exceeds fair use as provided by section 107; The person here is not an employee; it is a patron. This states that the person will not be excused IF the copy EXCEEDS fair use....if it does not exceed fair use, then it is perfectly fine and there is nothing to excuse. In fact, libraries are even allowed to make the copy for you and you can keep it provided that it is not intended for uses outside of the Fair Use exception....that is also in Section 108. And also provided that they post rules at the counter where such copies are made stating the law with respect to fair use. They also must post this statement by the recording equipment. "Brenda J. Walker" wrote: > Fair use means that my use of the equipement would NOT be illegal. > > IVPAUL42@aol.com wrote: > > > In a message dated 4/24/01 2:57:34 AM Eastern Daylight Time, > > brenda@killinggoliath.com writes: > > > > << > > I am admittedly not a lawyer, but can you honestly tell me that I would be > > charged with infringement and that I could not prevail using the fair use > > doctrine, if I made one copy for my own noncommercial use? > > > > I know that libraries set their own rules, some stating no copying and others > > posting the rules for copying relative to fair use. >> > > The rule or law you posted allows the libary to make copies for lendin to > > its patrons and excuses the library and its employees from liability if you, > > the library patron, illegally uses its equipment to make a copy of something > > protected by copyright law. I don't see anything in there that makes it OK > > for the patron to copy for personal use. > > > > Paul I ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 24 Apr 2001 08:43:10 +0100 From: "Chris Marshall" Subject: RE: the album form njc Warning: this is an early morning collection of thoughts. Nothing here is guaranteed to be relevant, or indeed to make sense. Brenda wrote:- > The MPAA (movies) has already begun this process with Gnutella users and their > ISP's. One guy from Sony made a comment a few months ago that they would go as > far as snooping on hard drives and cracking down on a few individuals to make > the point. The guy from Sony (perhaps not the same one?) said something along the lines of:- we'll firewall (or filter, if you like) you at the service (i.e. Napster, Gnutella) we'll firewall you at your ISP we'll firewall you on your PC Now, not only is this arrogant in the extreme, but shows that he clearly doesn't realise that if something (i.e. my PC) isn't *his* and in *his posession*, he can't control it. Period. Users might have to live with filtering at the service/ISP level, but no one *at all* is going to settle for someone else having any degree of control over their PC. Which, of course, is precisely what some of these secure media initiatives are heading towards. Did you hear the one about the idea of including software in hard disc drives themselves to stop them holding copyright media? Ho ho ho. The day my hard drive makes the decision not to store something because it thinks it's copyright is the day I abandon computers and start sheep herding. Now, I believe this one is dead in the water, but they certainly thought hard about it... On fair use: Doesn't the fair use stuff assume that you already *own* a copy of the thing that you're doing things with? I'm pretty sure that over here, copying stuff you just borrowed from the library is not considered to be kosher. Paul I said:- > I could be wrong, but it was my understanding that the case will never have > to go to trial because the judge already has ruled as a matter of law that > Napster has and is violating copyrights Don't you just hate the way ignorant judges, and exploitative record companies are just completely re-writing the rulebooks? Napster is almost completely analogous to, ummm, lets say a bunch of web sites that just happen to have a top level searchable index listing the contents of those sites. And Napster *themselves* are breaking copyrights, not the people hosting the actual data? No. It really does make me very uncomfortable when laws are "bent to fit" a scenario they are clearly not suitable for. In an unrelated case, years ago, a guy was slapped in jail here for "forgery". His forgery? Well, he guessed Prince Philip's Prestel password, or used an all powerful system password, I forget the details. It might not even have been the greek one... it could have been the one with the ears. Password guessing... Forgery...? Tenuous link. Forgery, in the UK, is the creation of a "false instrument", in this instance, a pattern of bits in a computer chip, that gained this guy access to Greek-boy's e-mail. And he was convicted of it! Tee-hee, how amusing. Prestel were, by today's standards, almost criminally negligent with regard to their system security. Said "hacker" had tried to inform them several times of the flaw in their system. Said "hacker" won his appeal, and is now a fairly respected industry figure. Right. Off to deal with the cat. - --Chris ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 24 Apr 2001 05:14:52 -0300 From: "Wally Kairuz" Subject: rick wakeman/bruce labruce njc i'm just back from having the most delightful conversation with legendary keyboardist rick wakeman. wakeman has just finished playing a series of concerts in buenos aires and he was kind enough to receive a bunch of friends and me backstage. we spoke about many things: his days with yes, his relationship with howe, anderson and squire, and his next album. he said that if he had enough money [!!!] he would buy an apartment in buenos aires. nothing big: one bedroom and another room to put his grand piano. he said this is the city where he has written his best music. [close to the edge? i wanted to ask, but i thought better.] we are in the middle of the buenos aires independent film festival, and torontonian enfant terrible bruce labruce is the star of the moment. every night this week from 1 am to 3 am [that's the time we go to the movies here] his gay hardcore movies will be shown in the theater district. i swear i think i saw my mother on opening night. my friend/daughter willie and i will spend the wee hours of thursday morning indulging in labruce's visions; namely, wall-to-wall dick. and that's all the news that fits on this nippy autumn morning in BA. thanks for watching. wallyK ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 24 Apr 2001 00:37:09 -0700 From: "Kakki" Subject: Re: 1972 McGovern Campaign trail - James and Carey Hi Janine, I have some input for you based on my recall, some list threads and other references. Right after Blue came out at the end of June 1971 (I heard it first on that 4th of July) I remember hearing on the radio and in the newspaper that Joni and James had broken up. The new James Taylor bio "Fire and Rain" also states "they had broken up by the time the album (Blue) was released." In around September 1971, I heard another radio report that a devastated Joni had fled L.A. The JT bio also recounts this and says that she went off to write the For The Roses songs, most all of them about Taylor. I didn't hear anything else until For The Roses was released sometime in the Fall of 1972. So I was surprised a couple years ago when a former listmember here sent me a recording of the McGovern Benefit in Cleveland, Ohio featuring Joni, James and Paul Simon and dated May 8, 1972. I had always imagined that she would have still been away in B.C. at that time. Also interesting is that on this recording she performed three song from the yet to be released For The Roses - Electricity, Cold Blue Steel and Sweet Fire and Banquet. The new JT bio, IMO, is dubious in some parts and the timing of events is often off both with Joni and Carly, but in this case, the dates cited coincide with my recall. The bio also alleges that Joni was writing songs about Taylor up until the early 1980s. When I first heard Blue, I thought all the songs were about JT! So did many of us. But over many threads it has been determined that probably only All I Want can be attributed to him. Joni wrote My Old Man when she was still with Nash and Carry is really about a red-headed character named Carey Raditz (sp.?) I think that it is on another live recording of Joni at the Troubadour in L.A. in 1972, where she talks all about Carey, who was an American hippie cook at the local (Mermaid) Cafe. In either that show or another interview, she mentioned running into Carey years later at the Renaissance Fair in SoCal. It may be about time to run another CD/tape tree to get these recordings around to newer listmembers. Kakki NP: Banquet - McGovern Benefit ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 24 Apr 2001 00:56:47 -0700 From: "Kakki" Subject: Re: Walk on By and misc. > I can make you a copy of all the series so far. But then we'll have the > usual problem of getting it converted to that inferior NTSC system you have > in the states. Our friend Rob from the UK used to be good at video > conversions, I wonder where he went. But I'm sure we can work something > out. Thank you so much for the offer Philip. Now to try to figure the conversion ;-) I also wonder where Rob went and miss him here. To all listmembers who have gotten the copy of the incredible "Pink Dress"/Joni BBC video compilation, we have Philip and Rob Jordan to thank for seeding the original! Kakki NP: My Old Man - 1970 Joni TV taping ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 24 Apr 2001 10:02:32 +0100 From: catman Subject: virus It appears one can receive a virus without opening an attachment. See link. http://antivirus.about.com/compute/antivirus/library/blemail.htm - -- bw colin BRO GC, 950i, 864, 260, 890,Silver 830 and 270, Passap 6000 Duo80 colin@tantra.fsbusiness.co.uk http://www.geocities.com/tantra_apso/index.html ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 24 Apr 2001 10:55:25 +0200 From: M.Russell@iaea.org Subject: Re: Something - GH lyrics (NJC) + + + + + + + + Something (Harrison) Something in the way she moves Attracts me like no other lover Something in the way she moves me I don't want to leave her now You know I believe her now Somewhere in her smile she knows That I don't need no other lover Something in her style that shows me Don't want to leave her now You know I believe her now You're asking me will my love grow I don't know, I don't know You stick around now it may show I don't know, I don't know Something in the way she knows And all I have to do is think of her Something in the things she shows me Don't want to leave her now You know I believe her now + + + + + + + + ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 24 Apr 2001 10:52:39 +0200 From: M.Russell@iaea.org Subject: Re: Something In The Way She Moves - JT lyrics + + + + + + + + Something In the Way She Moves There's something in the way she moves, Or looks my way, or calls my name, That seems to leave this troubled world behind. And if I'm feeling down and blue, Or troubled by some foolish game, She always seems to make me change my mind. Chorus: And I feel fine anytime she's around me now, She's around me now Just about all the time And if I'm well you can tell she's been with me now, She's been with me now quite a long, long time And I feel fine.___________ It isn't what she's got to say But how she thinks and where she's been To me, the words are nice, the way they sound I like to hear them best that way It doesn't much matter what they mean If she says them mostly just to calm me down Every now and then the things I lean on lose their meaning And I find myself careening Into places where I should not let me go. She has the power to go where no one else can find me And to silently remind me Of the happiness and the good times that I know, got to know. James Taylor + + + + + + + + ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 24 Apr 2001 06:53:21 -0300 From: "Wally Kairuz" Subject: she's back!!!! njc marian!!!!! do the latest posts mean that you're back amongst us????? say yes! wallyK - -----Mensaje original----- De: owner-joni@jmdl.com [mailto:owner-joni@jmdl.com]En nombre de M.Russell@iaea.org Enviado el: Martes, 24 de Abril de 2001 05:53 a.m. Para: joni@smoe.org Asunto: Re: Something In The Way She Moves - JT lyrics + + + + + + + + Something In the Way She Moves + + + + + + + + ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 24 Apr 2001 04:03:42 -0600 From: "shane mattison" Subject: remember when ( njc) ahem...mr....hart i pass what did you say, mr hart? i said i pass, and if i have anything to say on a subject, Prof. Kingsfield, i will let you know... i have something for you mr. hart...here is a dime...phone your mother...tell her there is very little likelihood of your becoming a lawyer... prof. kingsfield...you are a son of a bitch... mr. hart...that is the most intelligent thing you've said all week...take your seat... ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 24 Apr 2001 04:21:38 -0600 From: "shane mattison" Subject: LSD and lestat lestat in de sky with de hairballs lestat in de sky wit de hairballs lestat in the sky wit de hairballs ahhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh... picture yourself on a boat with joni with marmalade dreams and lookingglass eyes...suddenly lestat appears right before you and pees on de roses and makes hairballish cries... (from hunter s thompson's song "lestat in de sky wit de hairballs) ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 24 Apr 2001 06:22:16 -0400 From: "Deb Messling" Subject: RE: Something In The Way She Moves - JT lyrics Somehow this lyric doesn't spell JONI to me. I don't think of Joni as a calming presence like the lady in this song. I think of her more as someone who runs around alarming people. > It isn't what she's got to say > But how she thinks and where she's been > To me, the words are nice, the way they sound > I like to hear them best that way > It doesn't much matter what they mean > If she says them mostly just to calm me down > - ----------------------------------- Deb Messling "I like cats. They give the home a heartbeat." ~Joni Mitchell - ----------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 24 Apr 2001 06:22:13 -0400 From: "Deb Messling" Subject: RE: the album form/fair use and libraries... NJC I'm a director of a public library. Our attorney tells us that patrons may NOT copy a disk for home use unless **perhaps** they plan to use it once (while the regular copy is out of commission) and then discard it. They may not make a copy and keep it. Keeping the copy would by definition exceed fair use. Libraries are not copyright police trying to be mean to patrons, either. We are in the forefront of efforts to fight publishers from establishing new, draconian rules for electronic resources. But this music thing is settled law. And now...PLEASE label your posts NJC, folks! It doesn't cost you anything to do so, and it makes for a more satisfying experience for a large portion of subscribers. > will not be excused IF the copy EXCEEDS fair use....if it does > not exceed fair use, > then it is perfectly fine and there is nothing to excuse. - ----------------------------------- Deb Messling "I like cats. They give the home a heartbeat." ~Joni Mitchell - ----------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 24 Apr 2001 07:16:37 -0400 From: "Sue Cameron" Subject: Re: NJC "Something" The chorus of this song by JT is: I feel fine anytime she's around me now She's around me now, almost all the time And if I'm well you can tell that she's been with me now She's been with me now, quite a long long time And I feel fine. Guess if they were just falling in love then this would be a good song to show that. We all know the feeling here...being smitten and wanting to spend all of your free time with your new flame. Feeling like if you can't be with that person then there is no reason to smile.... I still feel that way even after almost 18 years of marriage. What's up with that???? Great song, BTW. Sue Cameron ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 24 Apr 2001 14:01:52 +0200 From: M.Russell@iaea.org Subject: RE: she's back!!!! njc On 24 April 2001 11:53, Wally Kairuz [SMTP:wallykai@fibertel.com.ar] wrote: > marian!!!!! do the latest posts mean that you're back amongst us????? > say yes! > wallyK > Dear wallyK! I'm still in ultra-lurk mode - have been trying to read most of the digests, but don't plan to post very often. Not too much is new with me except we got two parakeets and I am having fun training them. Musicially, not too much Joni, but a lot of Jonatha, a little Ramona, and duets with my children on the piano. Did you ever get my tape? I always wish you much happiness and think of you fondly! Dear colin and all JMDL animal owners! I loved the posts from your animals and the replies - especially the one from the fish! I hope they will post more often. Dear Kakki! My DC sister is moving to LA (Laguna Hills, actually). We're having a sisters' reunion there over Memorial Day weekend. If only it were New York so we could also enjoy David Lahm's Jonifest! Maybe we can check out Deux Cafes, though. I arrive Friday late afternoon and leave Monday evening. Kakki, will you be around? Dear Barbara, I know I have never even said hello to you, but I have enjoyed your JMDL contributions and I send best wishes to you and Steve - you are both in my prayers. Dear Brian, I hope you are fully recovered. Dear Nikki - was it just my imagination, or did you mention that you have Jonatha on video??? If so, I will happily send you much chocolate in exchange! Please reply privately if interested. I will send serious chocolate to anyone with videos of Jonatha playing live! Dear TerryM! You lucky girl! Please send me a report on the Detroit concert!!!! Dear MG, I love you very much and I send best wishes to you and your family! Dear Michael! Have a great time at the Jazzfest! Wish I could be there to jam with you! Love, Marian Vienna NP: Song - Bruce Hornsby - from Spirit Trail CD ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 24 Apr 2001 08:30:40 -0400 From: Jerry Notaro Subject: Re: Duncan Shiek covers Joni Sue Cameron wrote: > Steve, > > I love Duncan's work and think that he could really > do justice to Court and Spark. Is there a chance > that this will be recorded? Well, it is on Joni's Jazz cd/tape. His performance of Court and Spark was less than stellar, though I do like his work. Jerry np: Judy Collins - Daddy You've Been On My Mind ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 24 Apr 2001 08:33:05 -0400 From: "Jim L'Hommedieu" Subject: Corrections..... NJC Bob said, > Different song, Colin...you're thinking of "Something" by The Beatles, this is a JT song, it's confusing because the first line of his song is the first line of theirs. Paul McCartney played bass and produced JT's first major release, on Apple records, so maybe he heard James' first line and took off with it himself! "Something" is a George song. Yesterday, I blamed "Linda McCartney" for the breakup of the Beatles. This is, as I'm sure many have noticed, incorrect. The Beatles were, of course, broken up by "Linda Eastman", as she was known then. This of, course is another stupid attempt at humor as we all know that Yoko broke up the band. :) Jim ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 24 Apr 2001 08:41:36 EDT From: RoseMJoy@aol.com Subject: Re: 1972 McGovern Campaign trail - James and Carey In a message dated 4/24/01 4:44:27 AM Eastern Daylight Time, KakkiB@worldnet.att.net writes: > Joni wrote My Old Man when she was still > with Nash and Carry is really about a red-headed character named Carey > Raditz (sp.?) I think that it is on another live recording of Joni at the > Troubadour in L.A. in 1972, where she talks all about Carey, who was an > American hippie cook at the local (Mermaid) Cafe. In either that show or > another interview, she mentioned running into Carey years later at the > Renaissance Fair in SoCal. > > It may be about time to run another CD/tape tree to get these recordings > around to newer listmembers. > > I agree Kakki, we should make these recordings available to new listmembers. Some of these stories she tells are just priceless. I have a recording that Steve Ponsonby in Scotland was so kind enough to provide me with. (thanks Steve :~) It is dated 2/23/72 Live at Carnegie hall where Joni telling the story of meeting this person. She walks into a place and has some garbage to throw away. She sees this guy with a turban wrapped around and around in dirty whites. He had wild red hair and a heart in one ear and a gold loop in the other. She goes on to describe him with fierce blue eyes and the mark of Cane on his brows (thinking). She asks him what she could do with the garbage and looked at her abruptly and threw the garbage over his shoulders all over floor. He was the cook there LOL. She asks him for his birthdate. For his birthday she gave him 10 Mickey Mouse chocolate bars. Carey was very impressed because they had these Snow White cards in them in Greek and they were odd ones that nobody else had at the time. She went on to say she wrote him this song "Carey you're a mean old daddy but I like you." Rose in NJ NP: Woodstock Carnegie Hall 1972 rosemjoy@aol.com ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 24 Apr 2001 13:45:46 +0100 From: philipf@tinet.ie Subject: Re: Ian Whitcomb (NJC) Steve wrote: > > Is Ian Irish? I thought he was a Brit. Yes I believe he went to Trinity and was in some beat groups in Dublin in the 60s. That makes him more irish the most of the irish soccer team, who were mostly born in England :) Philip ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 24 Apr 2001 14:12:38 +0100 From: philipf@tinet.ie Subject: Re: JMDL Digest V2001 #187 Deb wrote: > That's the first time I've heard that "Something in the Way She Moves" was > written about Joni. That song appeared on James's 1968 Apple release. Did > Joni and James know each other then? > Don't let a technicality like that spoil a good story. He fancied her for 3 years before he got to go on a date with her. OK ? Philip ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 24 Apr 2001 08:42:47 -0700 From: "Brenda J. Walker" Subject: Re: the album form/fair use and libraries... NJC Then I stand corrected. I've certainly read and heard arguments to the contrary based on not rigidly applying fair use. And sorry for not tagging... Brenda Deb Messling wrote: > I'm a director of a public library. Our attorney tells us that patrons may > NOT copy a disk for home use unless **perhaps** they plan to use it once > (while the regular copy is out of commission) and then discard it. They may > not make a copy and keep it. Keeping the copy would by definition exceed > fair use. > > Libraries are not copyright police trying to be mean to patrons, either. We > are in the forefront of efforts to fight publishers from establishing new, > draconian rules for electronic resources. But this music thing is settled > law. > > And now...PLEASE label your posts NJC, folks! It doesn't cost you anything > to do so, and it makes for a more satisfying experience for a large portion > of subscribers. > > > will not be excused IF the copy EXCEEDS fair use....if it does > > not exceed fair use, > > then it is perfectly fine and there is nothing to excuse. > > ----------------------------------- > Deb Messling > "I like cats. They give the home a heartbeat." ~Joni Mitchell > ----------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 24 Apr 2001 08:48:30 -0700 From: "Brenda J. Walker" Subject: Re: the album form njc Chris Marshall wrote: > Warning: this is an early morning collection of thoughts. Nothing here > is guaranteed to be relevant, or indeed to make sense. > > Brenda wrote:- > > The MPAA (movies) has already begun this process with Gnutella users and their > > ISP's. One guy from Sony made a comment a few months ago that they would go as > > far as snooping on hard drives and cracking down on a few individuals to make > > the point. > > The guy from Sony (perhaps not the same one?) said something along the lines of:- > > we'll firewall (or filter, if you like) you at the service > (i.e. Napster, Gnutella) > we'll firewall you at your ISP > we'll firewall you on your PC That's the very comment that lead me to ask a friend in the legal dept at Sony if they would ever go after an individual....she commented, off the record, that she thought the company would...to scare people. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 24 Apr 2001 12:08:53 -0400 (EDT) From: Catherine McKay Subject: Busy or what? njc Just what the *heck* is going on around here? The last time I checked my e-mail was about 24 hrs ago. I come back and there's 68 new posts?? (Now 69, I suppose!) NP Jonatha (Story) - that guilded cage song; trying to drown out the sound of the friggin' teleconference going on in the next office (!) Where's my Eminem cd and just how loud can I crank this computer CD-thing anyhow? Yeah, I should be working, but I can't CONCENTRATE! Get your free @yahoo.ca address at http://mail.yahoo.ca ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 24 Apr 2001 12:25:02 -0400 (EDT) From: Catherine McKay Subject: Re: the album form - --- Randy Remote wrote: > The problem isn't just about music, it's about > centralized > media. Television, film and music are now owned by > a tiny > handful of corporations that are mainly interested > in offering > mass-marketed, highly profitable product. Picking up on this thread, one of the things that annoys the hell out of me is all the crap on TV, and the tons of product, but little of value when you go to the video store to rent something - is it just me, or does it mostly seem to be the SAME movie? Hey, people, how about an original story? a real plotline? people that LOOK like real people and who live in regular houses instead of glittery palaces? People who actually DIE when they get shot/blown-up or when they leap over tall buildings with a single bound? Could there BE too many court-room dramas? too many mindless action flicks? Apparently not. Bubblegum for the mind, I tellya. This place is going to hell in a handbasket. Too much reality might freak us out too much - why would I want to watch people who are ordinary, with petty little problems, just like me? It might depress us too much. So, let's have our media anti-depressants and mind-numbing survivor and millionaire shows. Someone at work (who actually watches Millionaire!?!) tells me the high-paying question the other night was "What was Mrs. Brady's maiden name"? (from the Brady Bunch.) Who the hell CARES? Knowing the answer to something like that has nothing to do with intelligence. We are a trivia-based society. I suggest that's a symptom of corruption, but correct me if I'm wrong. Maybe it's a symptom of stress. Maybe the stress is induced by the media to keep us complacent? I think I'm becoming paranoid. Anyhoo, apparently this is "Turn off your TV" week, so you might want to turn off the radio too. Listen to some Joni (you wouldn't get much of *that* on the radio); talk to your kids; take a walk around your neighbourhood and get to know all the neighbourhood dogs, like you did when you were a kid. Let's all boycott junkfood for juveniles! Get your free @yahoo.ca address at http://mail.yahoo.ca ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 24 Apr 2001 12:37:35 -0400 (EDT) From: Catherine McKay Subject: Re: Down with TLAs! - --- Doug Brode wrote: > And I never want to see another FLA here either. No > TLAs or FLAs!! Do you > hear me?! > > (TLA -- Three Letter Acronym) > (FLA -- Four letter Acronym) > > OK. I'll shut up now. > I hate the bloody things too! Somehow LOL doesn't have the same effect for me as Haha! And when people sign off ATB, I always stop a minute to ask myself, "What the hell does that mean?" or BTW, FYI, ROTFL, and so on. To me, if it takes more brain-power to translate acronyms into real language than it does keystrokes to type the word (or, horror of horrors!) your own words, then it's not worth it. TTFN, AHA (Ta Ta for now, Acronym Haters Anonymous) Get your free @yahoo.ca address at http://mail.yahoo.ca ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 24 Apr 2001 12:44:14 -0400 (EDT) From: Catherine McKay Subject: Re: NJC Something - --- Mark or Travis wrote: > > Paul McCartney played bass and produced JT's first > major release, on > Apple > > records, so maybe he heard James' first line and > took off with it > himself! > > Don't you mean Paul heard James' first line, told it > to George > Harrison and *George* took off with it himself? > > Mark in Seattle > (who really likes Harrison's 'Something' quite a > lot, probably more > than he likes McCartney's 'Yesterday') George rules! NP The Story - Fatso. Get your free @yahoo.ca address at http://mail.yahoo.ca ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 24 Apr 2001 12:45:40 -0400 (EDT) From: Catherine McKay Subject: Re: Fw: 1972 McGovern Campaign trail - --- janine sherman wrote: > Joni > Mitchell, James Taylor, and > Paul Simon toured for George McGovern who ran > against Tricky Dick and lost. I > saw them in Canton, Ohio near where I grew up. I > remember George McGovern > coming out on the stage at the end and holding hands > with them; raising arms > in the air. So it'll be almost 30 years since I saw > JT, but will on July 11 > in Hershey, PA. He's bald now. Don't be too shocked. ;) Get your free @yahoo.ca address at http://mail.yahoo.ca ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 24 Apr 2001 18:34:46 +0100 From: Jason Maloney Subject: Re : the album form NJC Hi all, I know this thread has now moved on to Napster and copyright issues, but reading about how the current music scene is in such a poor state got me thinking, because frankly this year alreday seems to have provided some outstanding acts, singles and albums. For example, how about these albums: Kings Of Convenience - Quiet Is The New Loud Neil Finn - One Nil Shawn Colvin - A Whole New You Turin Brakes - The Optimist Jonatha Brooke - Steady Pull Roland Orzabal - Tomcats Screaming Outside ...and these singles: Texas - Inner Smile Outkast- Ms Jackson Dido - Here With Me Gorillaz - Clint Eastwood Starsailor - Good Souls Sugababes - Run For Cover The Avalanches - Since I Left You ....not to mention the fact that both Eva Cassidy's Songbird and No Angel by Dido have topped the UK album charts in 2001. Yes, if you turn on the TV and/or radio you are more likely than not going to be swamped with tacky, brainless pop that has more to do with selling image and sex (and I often can't tell the commericals from the actual videos), but great new music is also out there - on the net, discussed in newsgroups, and featured more prominently than ever before in the record stores. Just my thoughts, Jason. http://www.the-slipstream.co.uk "Where the music matters." ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 24 Apr 2001 18:56:25 From: "Steve Harper" Subject: House Concert at Victor's... (Well, I just knew that either Victor or Kate or Bob Muller would share this event with the group, but since I haven't noticed anything from them, I'll take up the mantle.) Steve here.....I think I posted back in 1973. (It's been a while.) Anyway, the list's own Victor Johnson and Kate Bennett (and Kate's husband, Jeff) performed a magnificent double set for a group of about thirty folks at Victor and Holly's Atlanta home last Sunday night. Trading songs in the round, Victor, Kate, and Jeff shared from their formidable arsenals of songwriting. I didn't take notes, but let's see: we enjoyed songs about swamps and disaster and love and parenthood and Paris and summertime and oil and Georgia and Santa Barbara. We were floored by Victor's cello performances. Kate's song, "Irene," was a highlight of the evening. She was accompanied by Victor on cello and Jeff on harmonica on a hauntingly personal song which Kate shared was unconsciously written about the passing of her mother. Another tune, "Full Moon Ride," is your "Night Ride Home," I believe, Kate. Victor played guitar, flute, and cello, while singing his interestingly chromatic tunes. (Well, not all at the same time, you know. Though he is very good.) We even got to hear his Joni-inspired, non-standard tuning composition which he wrote after attending a JoniFest. Victor's tunes are musically complex and rich, with similarly vivid lyrics. Jeff shared many sides of himself in alternating songs that were funny and quite serious. I was struck by his song entitled "Crucifix," which contrasted a love affair with, you know. The crowd enjoyed a couple of blues tunes of his. I found his harmonica accompaniment throughout the evening lovely and understated. (Ken thinks you should record an album of your own, as well, Jeff!) It was a fun evening of lovely music. Ken and I had a great time. (I personally would have enjoyed a little Joni-hootenanny, myself, to send us all off. I was ready to sing by the time the evening was over.) JMDLer and citizen-of-the-musical-world Bob Muller drove down from his South Carolina home for the show. It was good to see and chat with you in person again, Bob. Thanks for the promise of Hissing demos to come! Holly shared with me about her childrens' album, which is selling well and has received much acclaim. I asked her to play it for us; maybe next time? Let me reaffirm here what an amazing collection of people and experiences the JMDL encompasses! Take care all, Steve in Atlanta _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 24 Apr 2001 12:17:12 -0700 From: "Brenda J. Walker" Subject: Re: the album form/this year's new music NJC Right on Jason... Just wanted to add that Outkast (listed under your singles) released their first album in '94...the album that containing Ms Jackson (Stankonia) is their fourth. Each album has sold more than a million units, with their numbers progressively growing to nearly 8 million in sales over their career with very little MTV or pop radio play (prior to Ms Jackson). And the album was widely traded on Napster before debuting at #2 on the album chart and remaining in the top 20 for three months. They have a true album sales fan base. Brenda Jason Maloney wrote: > Hi all, > > I know this thread has now moved on to Napster and copyright issues, but > reading about how the current music scene is in such a poor state got me > thinking, because frankly this year alreday seems to have provided some > outstanding acts, singles and albums. > > For example, how about these albums: > > Kings Of Convenience - Quiet Is The New Loud > Neil Finn - One Nil > Shawn Colvin - A Whole New You > Turin Brakes - The Optimist > Jonatha Brooke - Steady Pull > Roland Orzabal - Tomcats Screaming Outside > > ...and these singles: > > Texas - Inner Smile > Outkast- Ms Jackson > Dido - Here With Me > Gorillaz - Clint Eastwood > Starsailor - Good Souls > Sugababes - Run For Cover > The Avalanches - Since I Left You > > ....not to mention the fact that both Eva Cassidy's Songbird and No > Angel by Dido have topped the UK album charts in 2001. > > Yes, if you turn on the TV and/or radio you are more likely than not > going to be swamped with tacky, brainless pop that has more to do with > selling image and sex (and I often can't tell the commericals from the > actual videos), but great new music is also out there - on the net, > discussed in newsgroups, and featured more prominently than ever before > in the record stores. > > Just my thoughts, > > Jason. > http://www.the-slipstream.co.uk > "Where the music matters." ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 24 Apr 2001 15:24:12 EDT From: SCJoniGuy@aol.com Subject: NJC Re: House Concert at Victor's... <<(Well, I just knew that either Victor or Kate or Bob Muller would share this event with the group, but since I haven't noticed anything from them, I'll take up the mantle.)>> Actually I did post a little take on the tete-a-tete, Steve, but I'm glad you didn't catch it so you could share your thoughts...you're MUCH too great a guy to lurk, and Ken, that goes for you too! I thought it was funny how similar our reviews were! You've got good taste, Steve! :~D As for the discs, they're done and hopefully I can send them along in tomorrow's mail. But HOW can you deal with that traffic? ("You can feel it out in traffic, everyone hates everyone" really manifests itself on the Atlanta roads!) Bob NP: Living Colour, "memories can't wait" ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 24 Apr 2001 20:43:03 +0100 From: "Chris Marshall" Subject: Joni moment par excellence... (NJC) So there I was, getting my mocha and toasted sandwich in Starbucks. Just as I pony up the cash, what should come on but Coyote! Marvellous. I had a really cr@p day overall (my 6am mail about one of the cats pissing on my bed next to me didn't seem to make it through to the list) but just hearing Coyote there and then cheered me up no end. Then I remembered the #800 matress, the brand-new-two-weeks-ago bedding, the #150 wet & dry vacuum cleaner to help deal with the aftermath of this, and other feline senility moments around the house. - --Chris ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 24 Apr 2001 16:42:03 -0400 From: "Victor Johnson" Subject: Re: House Concert at Victor's...(njc) Thanks Steve and Bob for your wonderful reports. I was really glad you all could attend(especially Bob who does win the award for travelling the furthest to come "that evening".) I've been reluctant to post anything as I've been enjoying everything so much I don't know quite what to say. I drove up to the Georgia mountains Saturday to see Kate and Jeff peform at the community center located within an intentional community of some really cool people. I really enjoyed hearing all of her songs live finally as I had listened to them on the cd several times and so when I heard them I was experiencing the sensation of hearing them for the first time and meeting Kate for the first time though I felt like I already knew her and her songs. And she had not given me any idea her husband is such a talented songwriter. Anyway, later we stayed up till about 3 at her hosts' house trading songs back and forth. The whole environment there was incredibly refreshing and I felt like I had escaped the confines of the city and everything that goes along with it, and could finally think clearly again and connect with everything. I guess don't have to say much about the house concert as so much has been said already but it was recorded on both digital audio and video so for those of you who couldn't attend it's possible you might be able to see/hear it in the new future. Stay tuned for more information sometime soon. Last night, Monday, I went to Eddie's Attic to hear Kate and Jeff each perform at the now "well known" open mic competition(I used to play every week when they first started doing them six years ago...now you're lucky if you can get a slot once a month) . I got there just a moment too late, in the middle of Jeff's set, and saw Kate who was right after him. It was kind of a slow night there as it's usually pretty packed but they both sounded awesome. And the funny thing is, Jeff ended up being one of the finalists. He had to leave today, Tuesday, to go back to Santa Barbara, and they had been joking that he was going to win the contest and be forced to stay. So he got to go up and play one more song. Unfortunately, one of the other finalists won but he did receive a standing offer for a gig sometime in the future so hopefully we will see some more of him and Kate here in the future. Every six months at Eddie's they have a shoot-out competition for all the different winners where one goes up against another and play a song a piece until there is one left(kind of like the final four competition in collegiate basketball). I attended one of them that my friends were in a few years back and met India Arie there. She was one of the performers and she was knocked out of the competition fairly early in the evening though I remember thinking that she had such an amazing voice. It just goes to show you how screwy the whole "judging", "competition" thing is as she would have definately gotten my vote for the evening...applicable quote ( "Oh, I see...you don't have any ears..." Ernie to rubber duckie during bath time). Anyway, we did have a grand time though and that's what it's all about. Kate will be here in Atlanta for another week, and will perform with me at the Inman Park Festival next Sunday at 12:00 noon. If you're interested in coming but don't know how to get there let me know. A friendly reminder, you can find both Kate Bennett "Over the Moon" and Victor Johnson "Tangled" at http://www.cdbaby.com . And Holley's childrens' cd Sunnytime Soup (which we received 38 orders for last week!) can be found at http://www.kiddycat.com or by going to http://amazon.com . best, Victor NP: a light rainfall Victor Johnson http://www.cdbaby.com/victorjohnson "Just beyond the morning falls the river of your dreams, Escaping from the day these wild creatures run away." Victor Johnson ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 24 Apr 2001 17:31:48 -0700 From: Michael Paz Subject: Re: NJC Victor & Kate are IN THE HOUSE! Waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa! I wanted to be there. Thanks for the review. Sounds like you guys enjoyed yourselves. I love Kate's La. Roadhouse. I wanna take her and Jeff to a roadhouse here newar my place that I think they would like. Best Michael NP-Two For Bleu-Charlie Hunter on 4/23/01 7:07 AM, SCJoniGuy@aol.com at SCJoniGuy@aol.com wrote: > Just wanted to post a quick note thanking all involved for a wonderful > evening...Victor, tell Holley again how much the hospitality was appreciated, > and to let Beth know that the eggplant pizzas were a hit, with me anyway! > > Had a great time last night, managed to battle through the wacky Atlanta > traffic (motto: "Where every day is Nascar Race Day!") and made it to Victor & > Holley's to hear Victor and Kate. The bonus was hearing Kate's huband Jeff, > who joined them. The format was that Victor would play a song, then Kate, then > Jeff. Sometimes the players were totally solo, and sometimes, Kate would throw > in a harmony to Jeff's song, or Victor would throw in flute, or cello, or Jeff > would contribute harmonica to Kate's song. The blend was always inspired & > magical. > > There were many highlights, and I don't have a good recollection of titles. > "Irene" by Kate with Jeff's harmonica & Victor's mournful cello was certainly > high on my list...Jeff's songs were ALL first-rate, especially the song he > wrote upon the birth of his granddaughter; very moving in the same way as > Joni's Circle Game, and yes it made me cry. Jeff's voice has such an > authenticity to it, and his blues playing on a subtle yet insightful song like > "Obvious Blues" is pure delight...another title, "Crucifix" was very moving > lyrically. > > Kate showcased a lot of her CD (which I've had for a while, and you should > too...) and played a new one called "Louisiana Roadhouse" which really had a > nice swing to it, very fresh and airy sounding! Kate commented that Joni's > open tunings are inspiring a lot of new songs... > > Victor's songs were well done too, natch, my favorite one was the one about > the Cumberland Island swamp. It's always rewarding for me to watch Victor > because he gets totally lost in his music, he seems to enter a trance-like > state and it just comes out! > > It was great too to re-unite with JMDL Atlanta pals Ken & Steve, who are > always great conversationalists and a lot of fun to be with... > > And luckily, although my eyelids were challenged on my midnight ride home, > they didn't totally shut down until I laid my head on the pillow. Thank you > God! > > Speaking of thanks, thanks to Kate & Jeff for making the effort...I hope your > mini-tour continues to be a fruitful one. All of you deserve much success, and > I'm already looking forward to hearing you again in Topsfield! ;~) > > Bob > > NP: Led Zeppelin, "That's the Way" (BBC Sessions) ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 24 Apr 2001 17:33:20 -0700 From: Michael Paz Subject: Re: Casa Alegre (NJC) Back when I was drinking Boones Farm (which would have been the early seventies). I always found that that stuff almost tasted better coming up than it did going down (if you catch my drift). Thanks for the memoriesQ Best Paz on 4/23/01 8:01 AM, Steve Dulson at steve@psitech.com wrote: > Kakki wrote: > >> one night at >> "Jimmyfest" at Coyote Rick's Casa Alegre. We had a great time - lots of >> martinis and Boones Farm frou frou cocktails (eek), a long stretch of disco >> dancing (you should see Clark and Jimmy's moves) and ended the evening >> singing along to Joni on the jukebox. Thanks to Rick and Brad for a >> fantastic evening > > Casa Alegre - very possibly the only place on the planet where one > chases Strawberry Hill with Veuve Cliquot. At least that damn bottle > is finished, now, and nobody will be pestering me to drink any more. :) > > Rick and Brad - fabulous, as always! Thank you so much for throwing > another great party. Jimmy - as charming and personable as I suspected > from his postings. Kakki and Clark singing harmonies with the juke box. > Great to see Steve J and Ken C again...sigh...reality intrudes...back > to work... > > Joni people are the best, n'est-ce pas? ------------------------------ End of JMDL Digest V2001 #191 ***************************** ------- Post messages to the list by clicking here: mailto:joni@smoe.org Unsubscribe by clicking here: mailto:joni-digest-request@smoe.org?body=unsubscribe ------- Siquomb, isn't she?