From: les@jmdl.com (JMDL Digest) To: joni-digest@smoe.org Subject: JMDL Digest V2001 #190 Reply-To: joni@smoe.org Sender: les@jmdl.com Errors-To: les@jmdl.com Precedence: bulk Unsubscribe: mailto:joni-digest-request@smoe.org?body=unsubscribe Archives: http://www.smoe.org/lists/joni Websites: http://www.jmdl.com http://www.jonimitchell.com JMDL Digest Tuesday, April 24 2001 Volume 2001 : Number 190 The 'Official' Joni Mitchell Homepage, created by Wally Breese, can be found at http://www.jonimitchell.com. It contains the latest news, a detailed bio, Original Interviews, essays, lyrics and much much more. The JMDL website can be found at http://www.jmdl.com and contains interviews, articles, the member gallery, archives, and much more. Information on the 4th "Annual" New England JoniFest: http://www.jmdl.com/jfne2001.cfm The Joni Chat Room: http://www.jmdl.com/chat.cfm ========== TOPICS and authors in this Digest: -------- Re: NJC Re: the album form (njc) ["Blair Fraipont" ] Coyote [Steve Dulson ] Ian Whitcomb (NJC) [Steve Dulson ] Duncan Shiek covers Joni ["Sue Cameron" ] NJC Something [SCJoniGuy@aol.com] Re: NJC Something [catman ] Re: NJC Something [SCJoniGuy@aol.com] Re: Duncan Shiek covers Joni [SCJoniGuy@aol.com] Re: Coyote, njc ["Jim L'Hommedieu" ] Good news..... was Re: the album form(now NJC), Long ["Jim L'Hommedieu] Re: NJC Something ["Mark or Travis" ] RE: JMDL Digest V2001 #187 ["Deb Messling" ] Fw: 1972 McGovern Campaign trail ["janine sherman" ] Re: JMDL Digest V2001 #187 [IVPAUL42@aol.com] Re: JMDL Digest V2001 #187 [IVPAUL42@aol.com] Re: the album form [IVPAUL42@aol.com] Re: the album form [IVPAUL42@aol.com] Japanese Joni Import Cd & Video ["Christopher J. Treacy" ] Re: the album form njc [Randy Remote ] Re: the album form ["Brenda J. Walker" ] Re: the album form ["Brenda J. Walker" ] Re: the album form ["Brenda J. Walker" ] Re: the album form njc ["Brenda J. Walker" ] Re: the album form/fair use and libraries... ["Brenda J. Walker" Subject: Re: NJC Re: the album form (njc) I don't like Ani that much either, but that just happens to be one of my favorite songs. ALot of ANi fans hate that album though. Blair NP:Miles Davis, Black Satin, IN COncert 1972 >From: Alison E >Reply-To: Alison E >To: SCJoniGuy@aol.com, joni@smoe.org >Subject: Re: NJC Re: the album form (njc) >Date: Mon, 23 Apr 2001 12:59:19 -0700 (PDT) > >here are the exact lyrics from the ani song that bob >mentioned ("Fuel"). it's relevant to the discussion, i >think (and one of my favorite songs, too). > >"..all the radios agree with all the tvs >and the magazines agree with all the radios >and i keep hearing that same damn song everywhere i go >maybe i should put a bucket over my head >or a marshmallow in each ear >and stumble around for another dumb numb week >for another hum drum hit song to appear > >people used to make records >as in a record of an event >the event of people >playing music in a room >now everything's crossmarketing >its about sunglasses and shoes >or guns and drugs you choose." > >from "fuel" by ani > >--- SCJoniGuy@aol.com wrote:> > > I like what Ani says in one of her songs... > > > > "Remember when it was a record- > > of an event- > > of people making music..." > > > I may not be exact, but that's basically it. > >> Bob >Yahoo! Auctions - buy the things you want at great prices >http://auctions.yahoo.com/ _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 24 Apr 2001 00:32:43 +0100 From: catman Subject: Re: JMDL Digest V2001 #187 > I know that James Taylor wrote "Something in the Way She Moves" Is this the same song as the very well known song? from the sixties? Covered by loads and loads o fpeople, Birley Shassey being just one of them? colin BRO GC, 950i, 864, 260, 890,Silver 830 and 270, Passap 6000 Duo80 colin@tantra.fsbusiness.co.uk http://www.geocities.com/tantra_apso/index.html ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 23 Apr 2001 16:37:30 -0700 From: Steve Dulson Subject: Coyote Julius wrote: > I'm convinced of the Sam Shepard connection. Thanks and kudos to all you > coyote sleuths. Well, mutter, mutter, it DOES look pretty convincing, even to me, the Peter Coyote champion... :) - -- ######################################################## Steve Dulson Costa Mesa CA steve@psitech.com "The Tinker's Own" http://www.tinkersown.com "Southern California Dulcimer Heritage" http://www.cpmusic.com/scdh "The Living Tradition Concert Series" http://www.thelivingtradition.org/ ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 23 Apr 2001 16:47:37 -0700 From: Steve Dulson Subject: Ian Whitcomb (NJC) Galway Philip wrote: >music historian Ian Whitcomb (the first >irishman to go top 5 in the US charts). Is Ian Irish? I thought he was a Brit. I know he graduated from Trinity (or Queens?). I first met him in the '60s when he moved over here following "You Turn Me On", and I run into him from time to time. Last time was a few years ago when Michele and I were at a Victorian ball, and found ourselves in a quadrille with Ian and his lovely wife. His books on music history (eg After The Ball) are very well done. He also performs around LA from time to time. And, trivia time, the drummer on "You Turn Me On" is...Mitch Mitchell (unless I'm getting Mitch and Noel Redding mixed up - anyway, Jimi's drummer - I think he and Ian were college mates). - -- ######################################################## Steve Dulson Costa Mesa CA steve@psitech.com "The Tinker's Own" http://www.tinkersown.com "Southern California Dulcimer Heritage" http://www.cpmusic.com/scdh "The Living Tradition Concert Series" http://www.thelivingtradition.org/ ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 23 Apr 2001 20:09:23 -0400 From: "Sue Cameron" Subject: Duncan Shiek covers Joni Steve, I love Duncan's work and think that he could really do justice to Court and Spark. Is there a chance that this will be recorded? Thanks. Sue Cameron N.P. cat again choking up hairball in tune with Taming the Tiger's "nice, kitty kitty" Me thinks it is time to get some hairball remover! ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 23 Apr 2001 20:15:10 EDT From: SCJoniGuy@aol.com Subject: NJC Something << Is this the same song as the very well known song? from the sixties? Covered by loads and loads o fpeople, Birley Shassey being just one of them? >> Different song, Colin...you're thinking of "Something" by The Beatles, this is a JT song, it's confusing because the first line of his song is the first line of theirs. Paul McCartney played bass and produced JT's first major release, on Apple records, so maybe he heard James' first line and took off with it himself! Bob ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 24 Apr 2001 01:20:55 +0100 From: catman Subject: Re: NJC Something Are we talking about the same song? I think the next line or one of them is 'moves me like no other'. another line 'i believe in how'. SCJoniGuy@aol.com wrote: > << Is this the same song as the very well known song? from the sixties? > Covered by loads and loads o fpeople, Birley Shassey being just one of them? > >> > > Different song, Colin...you're thinking of "Something" by The Beatles, this > is a JT song, it's confusing because the first line of his song is the first > line of theirs. > Paul McCartney played bass and produced JT's first major release, on Apple > records, so maybe he heard James' first line and took off with it himself! > > Bob - -- bw colin BRO GC, 950i, 864, 260, 890,Silver 830 and 270, Passap 6000 Duo80 colin@tantra.fsbusiness.co.uk http://www.geocities.com/tantra_apso/index.html ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 23 Apr 2001 20:30:31 EDT From: SCJoniGuy@aol.com Subject: Re: NJC Something << Are we talking about the same song? >> You quote from The Beatles song, "Something", which is the more recorded of the two. James' song is NOT the same one. Bob ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 23 Apr 2001 20:34:02 EDT From: SCJoniGuy@aol.com Subject: Re: Duncan Shiek covers Joni << I love Duncan's work and think that he could really do justice to Court and Spark. Is there a chance that this will be recorded? >> Sue...this HAS BEEN RECORDED. It will be one of the featured tracks on "A Case of Joni"...here is the lineup: PM Dawn, bNight in the Cityb Annie Lennox, bLadies of the Canyonb Stevie Wonder, bWoodstockb Janet Jackson, bBeat of Black Wingsb Duncan Sheik, bCourt and Sparkb kd lang, bHelp Meb Sarah McLachlan, bBlueb Elvis Costello, bEdith and the Kingpinb Chaka Khan, bHejirab Etta James, bAmeliab Elton John, bFree Man In Parisb Bjork, bBoho Danceb Lindsey Buckingham with Mick Fleetwood, bBig Yellow Taxi Hope that helps...and I hope his vocal isn't as horrid as it was on Joni's Jazz! :~) Bob ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 23 Apr 2001 20:39:34 -0400 From: "Jim L'Hommedieu" Subject: Re: Coyote, njc Now that you mention this, it Does sound familiar. I guess Coyote wasn't on the air yet. "(It) seems like many dim years ago." James Leahy said, - -- Also, when she sang "Coyote" during the tour, she said that it was a work in progress and there were still verses to be written. This was December 1975. - -- About the only thing I remember vividly from the era is this: that mean ol' Linda McCartney broke up the Beatles. Lama ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 23 Apr 2001 20:51:39 -0400 From: "Jim L'Hommedieu" Subject: Good news..... was Re: the album form(now NJC), Long Wow! What a great thread! JMDL rocks again! Lots of folks voiced concern about the perceived degradation of mass culture but..... If all of this is true, how did we discover Shawn Colvin, David Gray, Dave Matthews, and Jonatha Brooke? - -- Brenda J. Walker said, > I've chatted with some who hotlisted me after downloading Beth Orton or Tribe Called Quest and went for the Joni > stuff just cuz...those kids go out and buy records. They're real music fans. - -- This is so cool, Brenda. You're one of the "cool" grownups! __ Brenda J. Walker continued, > The bystanders who are swapping Baja Men or J Lo (or whatever she calls herself these days) were never interested in > albums. And more than likely, they > never will be. - -- That's how it feels to me too, Brenda. At my evening job, the kitchen staff enjoyed, really, really enjoyed hearing the following set: * a soundtrack from a Japanese Anime (oh, my) * "Hey Ricky" * "One Night In Bangkok" They embraced these songs without a trace of reflection they are campy and utterly superficial. (Yet, admittedly fun.) And of course we all had this experience back in school days. Even back in the fabulous 70s, most people, and I say again, **MOST** people didn't get it. There were tons of people who thought "Tie A Yellow Ribbon" was a perfectly acceptable alternative to Steve Stills' "For What It's Worth" and had no idea of the fine shadings that we all take for granted and readily agree upon. Well, we *often* agree upon them. And now for the good news: www.wnku.org is now available on line. This is an idependent, college-owned radio station that plays lots of the artists beloved by JMDLers. They might play Shawn Colvin, then Keb Mo, then Steve Earle, then Ray Charles, Jonatha Brooke, then Dave Matthews, then Lyle Lovett, then B.B. King. (Of course, the djs tend to group stuff together better but you get the point.) They have lots of special weekly programs like multi-hour, syndicated shows on the Grateful Dead's live recordings, Celtic, Bluegrass, and R&B from the 40s to the 70s. Anyway, they sign off completely around 1AM Eastern Time (GMT - 5 hours). Further, brother Bob lamented, >Back in the 70's there was "AOR - Album-oriented radio", >and when an artist put out a record, the stations would > sample 3,4 or more cuts from it. I'd keep a mental log > and after I heard a couple I liked, the album was bought. Naturally, you'll pick up the theme by now and recognize that my beloved www.wnku.org does this. "For an in-depth listen to the new CD's, check out Further In each Monday evening between 8 and 10!" Again, this is Eastern Time in the US. (GMT -5) Last week, Niki played several cuts each from: Cowboy Junkies- Open - Zoe String Cheese Incident- Outside Inside-SCI Lucinda Williams- Essence- Lost Highway Be of good cheer folks. Jim L'Hommedieu (Lama) ** I hope that none of you mind being copied in on this privately. It's sort of a tradition during hot threads. If you don't want me to send you stuff privately, just tell me. I have honored this request in the past (with just one person) and will continue to do so. Chow. ** ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 23 Apr 2001 18:31:08 -0700 From: "Mark or Travis" Subject: Re: NJC Something > Paul McCartney played bass and produced JT's first major release, on Apple > records, so maybe he heard James' first line and took off with it himself! Don't you mean Paul heard James' first line, told it to George Harrison and *George* took off with it himself? Mark in Seattle (who really likes Harrison's 'Something' quite a lot, probably more than he likes McCartney's 'Yesterday') ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 23 Apr 2001 22:09:22 -0400 From: "Deb Messling" Subject: RE: JMDL Digest V2001 #187 That's the first time I've heard that "Something in the Way She Moves" was written about Joni. That song appeared on James's 1968 Apple release. Did Joni and James know each other then? > I know that James Taylor wrote "Something in the Way She Moves" about his > relationship with Joni Mitchell. Did Joni write a song about James? > Cheers, > Doug > - ----------------------------------- Deb Messling "I like cats. They give the home a heartbeat." ~Joni Mitchell - ----------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 23 Apr 2001 22:28:41 -0400 From: "janine sherman" Subject: Fw: 1972 McGovern Campaign trail - -----Original Message----- From: janine sherman To: dbrode1@home.com Date: Monday, April 23, 2001 10:28 PM Subject: 1972 McGovern Campaign trail Hi Doug, In the summer of 1972, yes, those three: Joni Mitchell, James Taylor, and Paul Simon toured for George McGovern who ran against Tricky Dick and lost. I saw them in Canton, Ohio near where I grew up. I remember George McGovern coming out on the stage at the end and holding hands with them; raising arms in the air. So it'll be almost 30 years since I saw JT, but will on July 11 in Hershey, PA. There was talk on here about the For the Roses album being influenced by her break- up with James Taylor and I was asking for input on here on how that summer 1972 tour fit into their break-up , before or after? I know she did some work with him on MudSlide Slim in the winter of 1971 and FTR release date is 1972 so?????? I agree that much on it seems to be influenced by him and his subsequent success in the music industry i.e. See You Sometime- "Pack your suspenders..." Blonde in the Bleachers-her? Cold Blue Steel is supposed to be about his heroin addiction and, of course, the title track - For the Roses, is about the music industry perhaps as a warning to him??? So I am trying to put the timeline together. Lots of great input on the Coyote/DJRD connection to Sam Shepard...... so here's hoping someone or two will help me out here. "He makes good omelets and stews." I think this refers to her time in Europe and living in the caves and this may be "Carey" a red-headed guy from the caves. Anybody?? Thanks, Janine ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 23 Apr 2001 22:31:40 EDT From: IVPAUL42@aol.com Subject: Re: JMDL Digest V2001 #187 In a message dated 4/23/01 7:37:38 PM Eastern Daylight Time, colin@tantra.fsbusiness.co.uk writes: << > I know that James Taylor wrote "Something in the Way She Moves" Is this the same song as the very well known song? from the sixties? Covered by loads and loads o fpeople, Birley Shassey being just one of them? >> No, I think you are confusing the James Taylor song with the George Harrison song "Something," which is the one that has been covered by hundreds of artists. Paul I ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 23 Apr 2001 22:32:25 EDT From: IVPAUL42@aol.com Subject: Re: JMDL Digest V2001 #187 In a message dated 4/23/01 6:53:28 PM Eastern Daylight Time, dbrode1@home.com writes: << I know that James Taylor wrote "Something in the Way She Moves" about his relationship with Joni Mitchell. Cheers, Doug >> Doug, How do you know this? Paul I ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 23 Apr 2001 22:35:00 EDT From: IVPAUL42@aol.com Subject: Re: the album form In a message dated 4/23/01 5:22:32 PM Eastern Daylight Time, brenda@killinggoliath.com writes: << I don't disagree that violating copyright is wrong. (Not that it has been proven that that is what Napster has done. Or Napster users for that matter. It's a technicality, but it's true. The case has not been tried yet.) >> I could be wrong, but it was my understanding that the case will never have to go to trial because the judge already has ruled as a matter of law that Napster has and is violating copyrights, which is why the judge strongly encouraged Napster to try to reach a settlement because is Napster does not, Napster could not print enough money to pay the court's award, including penalties and coutr costs. Paul I ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 23 Apr 2001 22:37:09 EDT From: IVPAUL42@aol.com Subject: Re: the album form In a message dated 4/23/01 6:03:24 PM Eastern Daylight Time, colin@tantra.fsbusiness.co.uk writes: << Actually, there is. It's called fair use. It's the reason why you can > check CD's and videos out at the library. And guess what? You're not > breaking the law if you make one copy for you own personal use. >> Fair use does NOT include copying something you checked out of the library, whether it is for personal use or not. Paul I ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 23 Apr 2001 22:46:00 -0400 From: "Christopher J. Treacy" Subject: Japanese Joni Import Cd & Video Who knows about this "An Evening With Joni Mitchell" CD & Video import from Japan? I vaguely remember somebody (Catman?) mentioning it a while back. Obviously, I'm not going to order anything until I know more - it's quite expensive! Thoughts? -Chris NP: That 2nd Amanda Marshall CD that evryone ignored - quite good, actually. Getting ready to go wait on line @ Tower for the New Janet (yay!) ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 23 Apr 2001 22:52:26 EDT From: SCJoniGuy@aol.com Subject: Re: NJC Something << Don't you mean Paul heard James' first line, told it to George Harrison and *George* took off with it himself? >> Yeah, yeah...THAT'S what I meant...(thanks, Mark) Bob NP: India Arie, "promises" ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 23 Apr 2001 21:58:14 -0700 From: Randy Remote Subject: Re: NJC Something I believe Harrison has acknowledged the influence of the James Taylor song on "Something". SCJoniGuy@aol.com wrote: > << Is this the same song as the very well known song? from the sixties? > Covered by loads and loads o fpeople, Birley Shassey being just one of them? > >> > > Different song, Colin...you're thinking of "Something" by The Beatles, this > is a JT song, it's confusing because the first line of his song is the first > line of theirs. > Paul McCartney played bass and produced JT's first major release, on Apple > records, so maybe he heard James' first line and took off with it himself! > > Bob ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 23 Apr 2001 22:18:32 -0700 From: Randy Remote Subject: Re: the album form njc This is not a simple issue, to be sure. You brought up alot of good and thought-provoking points. "Brenda J. Walker" wrote: > And to top > it all off, they would make the deal under a blanket license which means > that they are not paying the artist ONE RED CENT. I can point to an > example of a major label that did just this very thing and collected $40 > million of which NONE was paid to a single artist or publisher. I find this disturbing (or maybe just typical), and it's an important point that has gone almost totally unreported in the papers and trades. > All of this will inevitably lead to sharing going to decentralized services > and the RIAA will have to sue fans. They have said they do not intend to do that (for now?)-they know it would be suicide to their public image. Technology exists that can identify the 'fingerprint' of any recorded work- it is already being used to collect royalties-a search engine of that type is another possible way of dealing with it. > > There is nothing in the copyright statutes that allows > > someone to read a book or see a movie for free before > > deciding to buy it. > > Actually, there is. It's called fair use. It's the reason why you can > check CD's and videos out at the library. And guess what? You're not > breaking the law if you make one copy for you own personal use. I'll defer to you on that one-I know you can make a personal copy of a work you bought-didn't know if that extended to one you borrowed. But what is a library, exactly? I mean, if I was rich I could buy Tower Records and lend out their entire inventory until I ran out of money-I have a feeling the RIAA would not stand around and let that happen. So there must be some limit. > As far as subscription services go, they are going to fail because the > major labels won't join together to do it, I thought 4 of the 5 majors had made a deal with Napster. I agree that if they fragment their catalogs to different providers, they will kill the golden goose. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 23 Apr 2001 22:36:51 -0700 From: "Brenda J. Walker" Subject: Re: the album form The ruling was for an injunction to shut down the service while the case was being adjudicated. Napster still has the option of going to trial and pursuing other defenses, even though the judge ruled against them (in a limited way) with the injunction. Also Patel encouraged both sides to settle (just as the judge did with the MP3.com case) because the labels are looking really bad from the fair use perspective. The other thing is that if a statutory rate is set before this thing goes the distance, then Napster's damages won't be some pie in the sky number that sends everyone home from work. This is particularly so because the major label content is now, for the most part, being blocked (even though it is hurting indie artists in the process who have given permission for their songs to be shared). IVPAUL42@aol.com wrote: > In a message dated 4/23/01 5:22:32 PM Eastern Daylight Time, > brenda@killinggoliath.com writes: > > << I don't disagree that violating copyright is wrong. (Not that it has been > proven that that is what Napster has done. Or Napster users for that > matter. It's a technicality, but it's true. The case has not been tried > yet.) >> > I could be wrong, but it was my understanding that the case will never have > to go to trial because the judge already has ruled as a matter of law that > Napster has and is violating copyrights, which is why the judge strongly > encouraged Napster to try to reach a settlement because is Napster does not, > Napster could not print enough money to pay the court's award, including > penalties and coutr costs. > > Paul I ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 23 Apr 2001 22:38:58 -0700 From: "Brenda J. Walker" Subject: Re: the album form One thing that I misstated was personal use....it should be noncommercial use. IVPAUL42@aol.com wrote: > In a message dated 4/23/01 6:03:24 PM Eastern Daylight Time, > colin@tantra.fsbusiness.co.uk writes: > > << Actually, there is. It's called fair use. It's the reason why you can > > check CD's and videos out at the library. And guess what? You're not > > breaking the law if you make one copy for you own personal use. > > >> > > Fair use does NOT include copying something you checked out of the library, > whether it is for personal use or not. > > Paul I ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 23 Apr 2001 22:38:12 -0700 From: "Brenda J. Walker" Subject: Re: the album form Um ...yes it does. When I get back to my home computer, I'll give you the exact wording and the interpretation that shows it to be so. IVPAUL42@aol.com wrote: > In a message dated 4/23/01 6:03:24 PM Eastern Daylight Time, > colin@tantra.fsbusiness.co.uk writes: > > << Actually, there is. It's called fair use. It's the reason why you can > > check CD's and videos out at the library. And guess what? You're not > > breaking the law if you make one copy for you own personal use. > > >> > > Fair use does NOT include copying something you checked out of the library, > whether it is for personal use or not. > > Paul I ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 23 Apr 2001 22:47:56 -0700 From: "Brenda J. Walker" Subject: Re: the album form njc Randy Remote wrote: > They have said they do not intend to do that (for now?)-they > know it would be suicide to their public image. Technology > exists that can identify the 'fingerprint' of any recorded work- > it is already being used to collect royalties-a search engine of > that type is another possible way of dealing with it. The MPAA (movies) has already begun this process with Gnutella users and their ISP's. One guy from Sony made a comment a few months ago that they would go as far as snooping on hard drives and cracking down on a few individuals to make the point. > > But what is a library, exactly? There is a specific definition of a public institutions. So unless you bought Tower and gave it to the public, you wouldn't be able to do that. > > As far as subscription services go, they are going to fail because the > > major labels won't join together to do it, > > I thought 4 of the 5 majors had made a deal with Napster. I agree > that if they fragment their catalogs to different providers, they will > kill the golden goose. BMG (who owns a stake in Napster now) has given up on trying to get the other majors to play ball with them. Warner, EMI and Sony are doing an AOL thing involving Real (how much does Real audio suck??). And Universal has it's service Duet. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 23 Apr 2001 23:57:57 -0700 From: "Brenda J. Walker" Subject: Re: the album form/fair use and libraries... Everyone - this may be a snooze for you so....delete now. I did not label it as NJC because I think everyone can benefit from a dialogue about the real intentions of copyright - not the property notions that are pushed by multinational corporations (the ones in the music biz are affectionately called the Cartel). I don't have my bookmarks with me which provide the simple analysis without all the code language. So: http://www4.law.cornell.edu/uscode/17/index.html Title 17, Chapter 1, Section 108 http://www4.law.cornell.edu/uscode/17/108.html (f) Nothing in this section - (1) shall be construed to impose liability for copyright infringement upon a library or archives or its employees for the unsupervised use of reproducing equipment located on its premises: Provided, That such equipment displays a notice that the making of a copy may be subject to the copyright law; (2) excuses a person who uses such reproducing equipment or who requests a copy or phonorecord under subsection (d) from liability for copyright infringement for any such act, or for any later use of such copy or phonorecord, if it exceeds fair use as provided by section 107; (3) shall be construed to limit the reproduction and distribution by lending of a limited number of copies and excerpts by a library or archives of an audiovisual news program, subject to clauses (1), (2), and (3) of subsection (a); or (4) in any way affects the right of fair use as provided by section 107, or any contractual obligations assumed at any time by the library or archives when it obtained a copy or phonorecord of a work in its collections. And here is a fairly decent analysis of the fair use section, 107 along with some supporting case law. http://www.eff.org/pub/Intellectual_property/fair_use_and_copyright.excerpt "The defense 'permits and requires courts to avoid rigid application of the copyright statute when, on occasion, it would stifle the very creativity which that law is designed to foster.'" I am admittedly not a lawyer, but can you honestly tell me that I would be charged with infringement and that I could not prevail using the fair use doctrine, if I made one copy for my own noncommercial use? I know that libraries set their own rules, some stating no copying and others posting the rules for copying relative to fair use. If there is precedent that shows an individual being charged with infringement, I'd welcome seeing it. (I think I've posted more today than all year! ; ) Brenda n.p. - Cotton Avenue FYI- Music companies are paid a royalty for each blank cassette, each blank music CD-R and each audio recording device sold. (Now the data CD-R's....that's another story!) "Brenda J. Walker" wrote: > Um ...yes it does. When I get back to my home computer, I'll give you the > exact wording and the interpretation that shows it to be so. > > IVPAUL42@aol.com wrote: > > > In a message dated 4/23/01 6:03:24 PM Eastern Daylight Time, > > colin@tantra.fsbusiness.co.uk writes: > > > > << Actually, there is. It's called fair use. It's the reason why you can > > > check CD's and videos out at the library. And guess what? You're not > > > breaking the law if you make one copy for you own personal use. > > > > >> > > > > Fair use does NOT include copying something you checked out of the library, > > whether it is for personal use or not. > > > > Paul I ------------------------------ End of JMDL Digest V2001 #190 ***************************** ------- Post messages to the list by clicking here: mailto:joni@smoe.org Unsubscribe by clicking here: mailto:joni-digest-request@smoe.org?body=unsubscribe ------- Siquomb, isn't she?