From: les@jmdl.com (JMDL Digest) To: joni-digest@smoe.org Subject: JMDL Digest V2001 #185 Reply-To: joni@smoe.org Sender: les@jmdl.com Errors-To: les@jmdl.com Precedence: bulk Unsubscribe: mailto:joni-digest-request@smoe.org?body=unsubscribe Archives: http://www.smoe.org/lists/joni Websites: http://www.jmdl.com http://www.jonimitchell.com JMDL Digest Friday, April 20 2001 Volume 2001 : Number 185 The 'Official' Joni Mitchell Homepage, created by Wally Breese, can be found at http://www.jonimitchell.com. It contains the latest news, a detailed bio, Original Interviews, essays, lyrics and much much more. The JMDL website can be found at http://www.jmdl.com and contains interviews, articles, the member gallery, archives, and much more. Information on the 4th "Annual" New England JoniFest: http://www.jmdl.com/jfne2001.cfm The Joni Chat Room: http://www.jmdl.com/chat.cfm ========== TOPICS and authors in this Digest: -------- Re: Only in California (njc) VERY LONG and HORRIBLY BORING [susan+rick ] Kate Taylor (NJC) ["Lori R. Fye" ] Alterations, WTRF, Asharafest...(NJC) ["Steve Polifka" ] Re: Alterations, WTRF, Asharafest...(NJC) ["Steve Polifka" ] re: Mimi Farina [Anne Sandstrom ] Re: Only in California (njc) VERY LONG and HORRIBLY BORING [Alison E ] Re: alterations [Catherine McKay ] Re: Only in California (njc) VERY LONG and HORRIBLY BORING [Catherine McK] Re: Alterations, WTRF, Asharafest... now Carly (NJC) [Catherine McKay ] block of ice [catman ] Re: block of ice [SCJoniGuy@aol.com] You Know You've Been on the JMDL Too Long When... [MGVal@aol.com] Re: That Coyote Guy [philipf@tinet.ie] Re: That Coyote Guy NJC [philipf@tinet.ie] Re: Hejira lyric alterations [Alison E ] back from the west...NJC [Alison E ] Re: Hejira lyric alterations [SCJoniGuy@aol.com] Re: Kate and CJ in Delaware SJC [Kate & CJ ] alterations, renovations, and ovations ["shane mattison" ] Re: Urge for Going [Mark Domyancich ] Re: onlyJMDL Digest V2001 #125 [Mitch327@aol.com] Re: Hejira lyric alterationsNJC [catman ] Itchy feet NJC [catman ] Re: Urge for Going [SCJoniGuy@aol.com] Re: block of ice [Catherine McKay ] Re: Hejira lyric alterations [Catherine McKay ] Re: Hejira lyric alterations ["Mark or Travis" ] Re: block of ice [Relayer211@aol.com] Neil embraces DVD-Audio, njc ["Jim L'Hommedieu" ] RE: block of ice ["Wally Kairuz" ] Re: Hejira lyric alterationsWould Billie or Sarah ["Stephen Epstein" ] ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Thu, 19 Apr 2001 00:40:24 -0700 From: susan+rick Subject: Re: Only in California (njc) VERY LONG and HORRIBLY BORING On 4/18/01 10:38 PM, Coyote4Joni@aol.com wrote > And that, my dear correspondents (those that have endured this far) is part > of what I do for a living -- understanding and explaining this stuff. And > yes, I did go to law school. > > Our company slogan is Glad To Be of Service - I hope I have sufficiently > confused the issue. GTBOS. Uhh, okay, but who is it in California that owes B.C. Hydro $300 million dollars? Which apparently they're never going to see. Ranger Rick who saw a couple of your four-footed brethren alongside the road yesterday, looking sleek, sassy, and well-fed. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 19 Apr 2001 08:00:29 -0400 From: bbBear Subject: films, latest music NJC "you don't know what i got", the documentary featuring ani difranco that i worked on is going to be playing in Dallas & Philadelphia - http://www.whatigot.com/seeit.htm for more info. also for those of you who like D.A. Pennebaker ("Don't Look Back", "The War Room") - his wife Chris Hegedus, who has produced most of his documentaries has co-directed a new film called "Startup.com". It's playing at a number of festivals in upcoming months (I know for sure Philadelphia, DC, DoubleTake - I'm sure there are others). i've also been meaning to write about joy askew's latest album, "the same desparado". it's really good - maybe her best. the production is really clean and spacious. there's one song that i really love called "blue car", which has a delicious groove - a perfect driving song (it's about driving thru the desert). you can get her records at http://www.artist-shop.com/ she's also doing a jazz show this coming weekend in NYC. you may be familiar w/joy from the joni's jazz show... i've also recently been turned on to greg brown, whom i'm sure many of you already know. i'm about to start collecting everything of his - lyrics are brilliant, and songs nicely reveal themselves on repeated listenings. acoustic guitar driven melodies with whimsical anti-materialism-ish lyrics. barbara np: greg brown, in the dark with you ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 19 Apr 2001 06:01:42 -0700 (PDT) From: "Lori R. Fye" Subject: Kate Taylor (NJC) Has anyone (Colin?) ever noticed how much (James's sister) Kate Taylor sounds like Carly Simon ... at least on the song "Harmony"? Back to work, but thinking of everyone (and hoping to write long-overdue letters soon), Lori in DC http://www.unfoundation.org ~ Yahoo! Auctions - buy the things you want at great prices http://auctions.yahoo.com/ ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 19 Apr 2001 08:15:10 -0500 From: "Steve Polifka" Subject: Alterations, WTRF, Asharafest...(NJC) Date: Wed, 18 Apr 2001 18:24:16 -0700 From: "Mark or Travis" Subject: Re: alterations > Obviously, I'd LOVE to hear it. I'm one of the minority of WTRF lovers and I especially think "Flat Tires" is excellent, even WITH the Lionel Ritchie throw-in. >I've always liked this song too! Always loved the metaphor. 'With a >jack and a spare you're trying to get to where love is. Comin' in on >a rim & a prayer you're trying to get to where love is.' It's one of >those kinda fun songs that a lot of people don't seem to think Joni >should write or sing.... First of all, it is nice to know that I'm not the only WTRF lover, and I had some friends who use to do YDFT regularly in their performance! Do you know how many WTRF lp's I lent out and never got back? at least 6! That alone speaks for itself- to me anyway. Second, I think Same situation was written to (You're So Vain) Warren Beatty, and Blue Motel Room, DJRD was to John Guerin. I use to speculate on who the songs were written to. Since most of my own are 99% autobiographical, well, I can't help it! LOL! And thanks Bob, for the MFM alteration. Steve, now working it into his Asharafest set... ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 19 Apr 2001 14:39:04 +0100 From: catman Subject: Re: Alterations, WTRF, Asharafest...(NJC) > Second, I think Same situation was written to (You're So Vain) Warren Beatty, Carly has always said the song was not about anyone in particular. bw colin oh she also got the line 'clouds in my coffee' ages before she wrote the song. She was on a flight and the airplane window reflected the clouds outside onto her coffee. She wrote the line down and thought she'd use it at some point. She did! ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 19 Apr 2001 09:39:24 -0400 (EDT) From: Catherine McKay Subject: Re: NJC-FTR - --- Stephen Epstein wrote: > And to realise that this is 29 years old, is just > amazing! I was thinking > how when I was younger, when my parents played their > "old" music, how awful > and old-fashioned it seemed to my ears. Thankfully, > my 8 year old daughter > doesn't make similar comments when I play Joni! > Give her another couple of years, and enjoy it while you can. Then give her another 20 years, and she'll be listening to Joni the way some of us listen to the big band music that our parents used to listen to. Get your free @yahoo.ca address at http://mail.yahoo.ca ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 19 Apr 2001 08:38:06 -0500 From: "Steve Polifka" Subject: Re: Alterations, WTRF, Asharafest...(NJC) From: "catman" To: "Steve Polifka" Cc: ; "Mark or Travis" Sent: Thursday, April 19, 2001 8:39 AM Subject: Re: Alterations, WTRF, Asharafest...(NJC) > > > > > > Second, I think Same situation was written to (You're So Vain) Warren Beatty, > > Carly has always said the song was not about anyone in particular. > bw > colin > oh she also got the line 'clouds in my coffee' ages before she wrote the song. > She was on a flight and the airplane window reflected the clouds outside onto her > coffee. She wrote the line down and thought she'd use it at some point. She did! > Hey Colin, Not to anyone in particular, she says... Well, look what happened to Joni for Furry Sings the Blues... and that was just a 'I had this intriguing, great experience..' song... Hmmm... Well, it is just a speculation, and I understand why artists are vague and aloof. They either don't want to hurt anyone's feelings, or meddle in their life, or give them a big ego! I just finished writing this hot song called Smitten, about a flirtation I'm having with this guy from work. Someone asked me if I were going to share it- in some form or another, and I said, "Hell no!" So I can relate... Steve ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 19 Apr 2001 07:48:37 -0700 From: Steve Dulson Subject: Fine white lines... (NJC) FredNow@aol.com wrote: >"There's a fine line between genius and insanity. I have erased this line." >- -Oscar Levant "It's such a fine line between clever and stupid." - -- Spinal Tap :) - -- ######################################################## Steve Dulson Costa Mesa CA steve@psitech.com "The Tinker's Own" http://www.tinkersown.com "Southern California Dulcimer Heritage" http://www.cpmusic.com/scdh "The Living Tradition Concert Series" http://www.thelivingtradition.org/ ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 19 Apr 2001 10:58:00 -0400 From: Anne Sandstrom Subject: re: Mimi Farina I'm so sad to hear about Mimi Farina's illness. Although I'm fond of her word with Richard Farina (my sister and I used to do, if I do say so myself, a pretty good version of the song "Swallow Song." I also pretty much wore out a copy of an album she did with Tom Jans. I used to open all my performance with the song "Carolina" from that album. My best to you Mimi. lots of love Anne ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 19 Apr 2001 08:05:50 -0700 (PDT) From: Alison E Subject: Re: Only in California (njc) VERY LONG and HORRIBLY BORING thanks so much for that excellent bit of info, coyote. god knows it's confusing to try to figure it all out just based on media reports. damn the capitalist pigs! hee hee... alison e. in nyc coyote rick...as SMART as he is FOXY! np: willie, whiskey river - --- Coyote4Joni@aol.com wrote: > Lord knows I don't want to start a California > electricity thread, especially > when we have been so controversial-free and polite > of late. I've loved all > the JC (hmmm) posts I've been reading. However... > The problems in California with the electricity > crisis are, in fact... > Coyote Rick (who ain't goin' near the Coyote thread) Yahoo! Auctions - buy the things you want at great prices http://auctions.yahoo.com/ ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 19 Apr 2001 11:42:48 -0400 (EDT) From: Catherine McKay Subject: Re: That Coyote Guy - --- JRMCo1@aol.com wrote: > Philip writes: > > < It's funny how we (including me) tend to > imagine the songs are about celebrities. It could be > just about a rancher who picked up a hitcher.>> > > Well, I disagree, philip. Obviously the song is > very allegorical. .... > My contention is that it might be > somewhat *based* on Robertson and perhaps others, > the first lines notwithstanding. I only used a > smidgen of my boundless imagination to arrive at the > conclusion, too. There's the "hawk" reference, the > fact that Robbie is Canadian and was raised in part > on reservation, and other clues. OK, I'm probably asking for trouble here, but what the hell... why are people so hung up on wanting to know WHO Joni is singing about in some of these songs? IMO it makes them LESS interesting, because I tend to view these characters as composites or archetypes, or something. I too saw the Coyote as just some guy, not a celebrity and for some reason, it irritates me when people constantly analyze *who* the song is supposed to be about. Sorry, not picking on you at all, Julius, because I enjoy your posts, but, a while back, people were commenting on how much the the "Church of Joni" thread bothered them - I participated in that one, OK? so don't mistake me for someone who has good taste ;) - but, for some reason, when people start analyzing *who* the songs are about, especially if it seems to be someone Joni has had an affair with (however brief), it bugs me. It seems too personal,somehow, like asking someone if they're getting any action lately, or whatever. So, I'm a prude. Let's just consider my question a rhetorical one - there really IS no answer to it, and I certainly would NOT expect people to stop talking about it because it bugs little ol' moi. Just wanted to get my few cents worth in. Never mind, I'll stop talking now. > < tune.>> > > You hate the song? No tune?! Again we differ > wildly. It's one of my favorites and one I always > use to initiate new Joni recruits. To each his or > her own, I suppose. > P.S. I lied about shutting up. Julius, I do like the song too. Philip, too wordy? LOL. Joni likes words and she likes to talk. A lot! The songs on Hejira aren't the most tuneful, certainly, they're quite spare (musically) compared to a lot of Joni's stuff. I find the music very dreamy, otherworldly, kind of meditation music (not of the OOOMMM variety, of course), but you sort of have to be in a certain headspace to listen to them, and they sure aren't background music - you have to be paying attention with a particular part of your brain (but I have no idea what part of the brain that is - the one that gives you all those great ideas right before you fall asleep). Now I'll shut up. Get your free @yahoo.ca address at http://mail.yahoo.ca ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 19 Apr 2001 11:46:53 -0400 (EDT) From: Catherine McKay Subject: Re: alterations - --- shane mattison wrote: > it was indeed the 'bread and roses' concert, and of > further note...i > remember well joni being so shy to get up on the > stage for b.b's "thrill is > gone"...he practically had to beg her and drag her > out there himself...i was > wowed by her > shyness...at times she has shown such humility which > belies the few > journalists who have labelled her as 'big > ego' Wow - who wouldn't be totally overwhelmed at being invited up to sing with BB King? I imagine Joni as being pretty shy and those journalists who talk about her "ego" always seem to take everything completely out of context (so, what else is new?) They'll take one word, or one phrase, part of a song, part of what Joni said at a particular concert and blow that all out of proportion and make her look like some kind of egomaniac. And yet, the kindness she has shown to many people - a lot of them on this list - belies that whole thing. I think she just gets fed up sometimes and lambastes people for saying things that are just plain stupid - something many of us would love to do from time to time. Go, Joni, go! Get your free @yahoo.ca address at http://mail.yahoo.ca ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 19 Apr 2001 12:44:00 -0400 (EDT) From: Catherine McKay Subject: Re: Only in California (njc) VERY LONG and HORRIBLY BORING - --- Coyote4Joni@aol.com wrote: > In a message dated 4/17/01 11:35:14 AM Pacific > Daylight Time, > revrvl@chartermi.net writes: > > << I find it suspicious that PE&G is crying about > money problems the year > after the movie Erin Brockovitch came out... > >> > > Lord knows I don't want to start a California > electricity thread, especially > when we have been so controversial-free and polite > of late. I've loved all > the JC (hmmm) posts I've been reading. However... > > The problems in California with the electricity > crisis are, in fact, all > about a botched deregulation plan, not Hollywood > films. They've just deregulated electricity here in the province of Ontario and one of the things people were saying to oppose it was, "Look at the mess in California and don't do it!" Wondering about the possibility of putting a windmill in my back yard. Get your free @yahoo.ca address at http://mail.yahoo.ca ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 19 Apr 2001 12:46:00 -0400 (EDT) From: Catherine McKay Subject: Re: Alterations, WTRF, Asharafest... now Carly (NJC) - --- catman wrote: > > Second, I think Same situation was written to > (You're So Vain) Warren Beatty, > > Carly ... said ... she also got the line 'clouds in my coffee' ages > before she wrote the song. > She was on a flight and the airplane window > reflected the clouds outside onto her > coffee. She wrote the line down and thought she'd > use it at some point. She did! Real clouds? I thought the cream had just gone bad in the coffee. What's my problem? I'm talking way too much these days. Spring is here, and hibernation is over - that's got to be it! Get your free @yahoo.ca address at http://mail.yahoo.ca ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 19 Apr 2001 12:55:39 -0400 (EDT) From: Catherine McKay Subject: Re: This N' That (NJC) - --- Susan Guzzi wrote: > Catherine McKay wrote: > The usual ones associated with IV drug use (sharing > needles, having sex with > people who are users of IV drugs, who share needles > with others) are HIV/AIDS, > Hepatitis B and C > (which could cause liver cancer, which could spread > to the lymph system). But > I've known a few people - most of them quite young - > who had lymphatic cancer > without being IV drug users, heavy consumers of > alcohol, or anything like > that. > > Thanks for the explanation Catherine. He was > probably most susceptible to the > Hepatitis C if anything. I can't believe the amount > of people I know with > this. People who have not been IV drug users for > years and many very > short-term users far as history. He just may have > had the Lymphoma - period. > This is what I lost my Robin to almost 3 years ago. > I think this may be > quietly as wide spread as AIDS, but it does not have > to be deadly. Sorry to rattle on about the Hep C thing and so on. It's one of those bodily fluid diseases, not unlike AIDS, in a way in the way it's spread, except its transmission can happen a lot more quickly than AIDS. Many people contracted it from blood transfusions and so on, people who never took IV drugs in their lives and whose sex life was pretty tame, but who had the misfortune to require a blood transfusion or blood products during a time in their life when blood wasn't being screened for Hep C - a lot of haemophiliacs got it this way. Some people with Hep C are pretty asymptomatic, where others get horribly ill for a long time and can't work, and still others get ill and die fairly quickly. Very sad. Get your free @yahoo.ca address at http://mail.yahoo.ca ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 19 Apr 2001 18:32:35 +0100 From: catman Subject: block of ice I was driving thru Suffolk today. A stunning county for scenery and old old homes-like 13/14th century. Painted much by Constable. Anyhow, the weather went from sunny to a sudden downpour of ice, really heavy. As it did, I heard Joni sing (in my mined) 'block of ice'. Which song is this from? I am pretty sure it is from THSOL album. I know I could go look it up but thought I'd give you the thrill of being able to answer it just off the top of your head. - -- bw colin BRO GC, 950i, 864, 260, Silver 830 and 270, Passap 6000 Duo80 colin@tantra.fsbusiness.co.uk http://www.geocities.com/tantra_apso/index.html ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 19 Apr 2001 13:52:02 EDT From: SCJoniGuy@aol.com Subject: Re: block of ice Colin, that is from "Shades of Scarlett Conquering"... Friends have told her not so proud Neighbors trying to sleep and yelling not so loud Lovers in anger Block of Ice Harder and harder just to be nice An incredible song (natch!) Glad you didn't slip on the ice... Bob NP: Ladysmith Black Mambazo, "scatter the fire" ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 19 Apr 2001 14:26:26 EDT From: MGVal@aol.com Subject: You Know You've Been on the JMDL Too Long When... You are having a normal, ordinary dream. You have to stop and make a collect phone call and you tell the operator that "I get JMDL rates." The operator agrees and says: "Since you are a Joni fan, the "on hold" music is something you'll enjoy." And the on hold tune is "Night in the City." Then it's 4:30am and the morning is almost over. MG - doing the verboten posting from work NP: 10-key calculators ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 19 Apr 2001 19:44:30 +0100 From: philipf@tinet.ie Subject: Re: That Coyote Guy Julius wrote: > Again we differ wildly. But in a friendly way. > It's one of my favorites and one I always use to initiate new Joni > recruits. I've heard from one or two non fans over the years that Coyote is the only JM song they know due to it being in The Last Waltz. And an old work mate of mine told me that she bacame a big Joni fan after seeing her perform Coyote in that film. Philip ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 19 Apr 2001 19:46:59 +0100 From: philipf@tinet.ie Subject: Re: That Coyote Guy NJC Randy wrote: > I never heard of a pro musician that got up much before noon. I've noticed that. But they also seem to have a remarkable ability to party untill 4 in the morning and still get to the airport on time for a 9 o'clock flight to the next gig/ party. Philip NP Neil Young - Only Love Can Break Your Heart ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 19 Apr 2001 12:14:29 -0700 (PDT) From: Alison E Subject: Re: Hejira lyric alterations i think it's so much more interesting to think of a song as a living piece of art, not static, but flexible, changeable, evolving. i can think of many times at concerts where i have been singing happily along to a song, then the artist performs it differently live--whether it's a tempo change, lyric change, or adding/subtracting instruments. i think in order to be able to play a song over and over and over again, you would almost have to change it to keep it interesting for yourself as well as your audience. my guess is that is part of what drove her to do the BSN project; being able to take songs that were never hers and really tweak them, reinterpret and make them her own, as well as the "radical" interpretations of ACOY and BSN she put on the album. alison e. in nyc np: seldom scene - --- SCJoniGuy@aol.com wrote: > This morning while driving to work, Black Crow came > on the stereo. snip > But what I was thinking about was the lyric. After > she sang it in the studio, every other version I've > heard changes "In search of love & music" to "in > search of truth & beauty". Do you think she wanted > to make the song more universal in scope? > Whaddya think? > Bob > NP: Elton John, "Indian Sunset" Yahoo! Auctions - buy the things you want at great prices http://auctions.yahoo.com/ ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 19 Apr 2001 12:29:38 -0700 (PDT) From: Alison E Subject: back from the west...NJC "back in our home new york back in these streets forlorn we all in our uniforms black and black..." (okay, it's shawn colvin, not joni, but it just fits so well!) hello all... back from the too-beautiful-to-believe-it salt lake city. the land of my people. had a nice vacation, and just wanted to say hello to you all, it's nice to come back to the list. i am looking forward to seeing all that are coming to new york on memorial day for the gathering hosted by David Lahm. If anyone has any ideas for activities or events they would like to do aside from all the fabulous music and food going down at "Judy's", please email me off list and maybe we can get a plan together. new york is starting to bloom as it gets warmer day by day, by may it should be really beautiful. alison e. in nyc Yahoo! Auctions - buy the things you want at great prices http://auctions.yahoo.com/ ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 19 Apr 2001 15:34:21 EDT From: SCJoniGuy@aol.com Subject: Re: Hejira lyric alterations <> Oh, absolutely, Alison...but this can confound the fans, with Joni I think the more striking examples are the versions of "Banquet","Song For Sharon", and "Sweet Bird" she performed on her '83 WTRF tour. Lots of fans (and reviewers) seemed to be displeased with her re-working of these songs. (Not that she's ever had pleasing the masses as an agenda...) Woodstock is another one she's re-tooled over the years; compare the S&L version with the MOA version with the LOTC version! Joni's worked very hard in career NOT to become in concert what she refers to as a "human jukebox". What interested me the most was the lyrical changes, and wondering what prompted some of the alterations...while a lot of artists alter the tempos and rhythms of their songs to keep them fresh, I would hazard that far fewer tinker with lyric. I saw a great Counting Crows show (Recovering the Satellites tour) and they re-worked damn near every song in their reportoire! The poor young fans didn't know what to expect with an unplugged "Mr. Jones", etc! Bob NP: Daniel Lanois, "Death of a Train" ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 19 Apr 2001 15:34:21 -0400 From: Kate & CJ Subject: Re: Kate and CJ in Delaware SJC Thanks for the kind words Blair - it was great meeting you. As nice as you are handsome!!! Just so you know, Coyote is getting there... FYI, and anyone else - this list lurker is proud to say the CD that Kate and I have been working on is here! Titled, Get Home Early, it's available at our shows and soon from online retailers. JMDL veteran Patty O'Connor (a high school friend of mine -we reconnected right here in Joniland) designed the CD package! It looks great and might I say - sounds great, too. Our web site is going through some revamping but check out kateandcj.com. Tip 'o the cap to Joni - an inspiration for me always. CJ McKenna > Hey there everyone. > Tonite I had the privledge of seeing fellow JMDLers Kate and CJ perform > here in Delaware. They performed very well. There was a great warmth and > companionship to their music. They performed originals, added some humor > into their act and performed many a great songs. Did great versions of > King's "It's too Late", Gershwin's "Summertime", Indigo Girls' "Joking" > "least Complicated" "Galileo" and "Closer to Fine". ANd then they performed > the 'Master's' own "You turn me On I'm a Radio" and "Big Yellow Taxi." They > put their own touches on the songs which turned out to be a very fun > experience for all. They closed with a touching "Circle Song" by Harry > Chapin. Also, months ago I had privately emailed them requesting them to play > something from Hejira. Well, they didnt get to play anything from it, but > the biggest treat for me was after the show ended CJ showed me her alternate > acoustic guitar which she had tuned especially for Coyote. Together she and > I sang the first verse of the song to each other's delight. Good luck > working on the rest of the song CJ and thanks for the great night the both > of you. Sincerely, Blair m. Fraipont ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 19 Apr 2001 15:58:59 -0600 From: "shane mattison" Subject: alterations, renovations, and ovations thanks kate for your valuable information, mark, and catherine for your comments, others too...randy, sorry you misunderstood...i was talking about two separate moments, hence two emails... one was the slow 'flat tires' done in yes her separate set... the other moment when b.b. invited her, shy and all, onto the stage... oh she looked good in her gold hair, bananna slacks and guitar, and that cadmium yellow blouse...the california sun just brought out the best in each...it wasn't a long set, not like seeing her at the edmonton folk fest...now that was gloriously long...but almost 20 years later...and, need i point out, better than ever? as for sam shepard...wouldn't be surprised, 'sly dog'... i did original song soundtracked for the first production of his 'curse of the starving class', where i played the lost dog father weston...it would be a pity if 'coyote' weren't sam...maybe it was payback time for all his comments in 'rolling thunder revue'...and that's a lol... someone mentioned 'renaldo and clare' a few posts back... i loved it...it had a rollin' wim wenders aspect to it...oh sometimes when i think of the fullness of joni's experiences...and yet, are more desert years any more impermanent? howlin' back to the desert to wrestle with 'martin' and 'larrivee'.... ramblin' jack shane, http://www.angelfire.com/art/cactussong ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 19 Apr 2001 18:35:47 -0400 From: Doug Brode Subject: Urge for Going Greetings I just listened to Tom Rush's version of Urge for Going. He sings a verse that isn't on the Lyrics Page on this site. Any idea if he wrote the additional verse or if it was a verse that Joni wrote. I just downloaded another song (bless me father, for I have sinned) -- Joni Mitchell - Urge for Going (live) 3-17-67 Philly PA.mp3. Is this the future of Tape Trees? I just learned about Tape Trees yesterday -- from you guys. I thought it was pretty behind the times. I've retired most of my cassettes and no longer have a tape player in my car. The quality of the live recording I downloaded is really quite good. How do they do that? I thought all these bootlegged tapes were recorded by guys with cheap Radio Shack recorders taped to their legs. I have plenty of "Joni" questions. I've had a crush on her for about 30 years. Still haven't gotten over it. Well.... I've got the urge for going. I've just finished my third beer this evening. See y'all later. Cheers, Doug ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 19 Apr 2001 18:08:04 -0500 From: Mark Domyancich Subject: Re: Urge for Going >I just downloaded another song (bless me father, for I have sinned) >-- Joni Mitchell - Urge for Going (live) 3-17-67 Philly PA.mp3. Is >this the future of Tape Trees? I hope not. MP3 is a lossy audio compression scheme where certain frequencies are removed from the original file to make it a small file. I have been thinking of doing an SHN tree for one of the '76 tours. SHN is not lossy - I'm not sure how it works but it condenses the original wav file or aiff file down to about 1/4 or 1/2 the size. The files are still somewhat large, so the only internet transmission that's capable of downloading SHN files are cable modems or better. SHNs burned to CD seem to be great for those with slower connections. >I just learned about Tape Trees yesterday -- from you guys. I >thought it was pretty behind the times. I've retired most of my >cassettes and no longer have a tape player in my car. The quality of >the live recording I downloaded is really quite good. How do they do >that? More than likely a reel-to-reel was hooked up to the soundboard instead of someone in the audience recording it with a Sony Dictophone and a My First Tape Recorder from Fisher Price. :) If you want to hear a really shitty recording of one of the early recordings, listen to the first tape tree. >I thought all these bootlegged tapes were recorded by guys with >cheap Radio Shack recorders taped to their legs. Most of them were, unfortunately. The great majority, in my opinion, of live recordings of Joni really suck. Why they do is beyond me, and still, with the advent of DAT recorders, even a few of the 1998 tour shows suffer. Any questions about tape trees/SHN, I'm all ears. NP-Medeski, Martin and Wood, Shibuya Ax, Tokyo 2/15/01 - PCB - -- Mark Domyancich Harpua@revealed.net tape/cd trading: http://homepage.mac.com/mtd/ all-digital: http://db.etree.org/domyancich/ ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 19 Apr 2001 19:46:13 EDT From: Mitch327@aol.com Subject: Re: onlyJMDL Digest V2001 #125 Hi All, I was driving to work a couple of weeks ago thinking about "The 10 CD's I Would Want To Have On A Desert Island" (Yes, at the age of 41 I still do this, and as you may guess it's a long commute). Well I won't bore you with the details (Only that "Blue", "Hejira" and "Court and Spark" are present). So I make the list, and then I try something different, I try to order them. I come down to "Blue" and "Blood On The Tracks" as contenders for number one. Well, naturally I give the nod to Joni (as I'm sure many of you will), but I said to myself, if I take my "Joni" hat off, it's a tough call. What does everyone think? Just call me.......tangled up in blue! Mitch ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 20 Apr 2001 00:51:26 +0100 From: catman Subject: Re: Hejira lyric alterationsNJC Alison E wrote: > i think it's so much more interesting to think of a > song as a living piece of art, not static, but > flexible, changeable, evolving. i can think of many > times at concerts where i have been singing happily > along to a song, then the artist performs it > differently live--whether it's a tempo change, lyric > change, or adding/subtracting instruments. > i think in order to be able to play a song over and > over and over again, you would almost have to change > it to keep it interesting for yourself I understand what you are saying and am sure it is true. However, it is the one reason i don't usually like live performances. i don't like them messing with the songs I have grown to love as they are! Reminda me of people going to see Alison Moyet in concert on the strength of her 2 hit albums and she didn't perform one song from them but an evening of jazz standards and wondered why the audience were pissed off! Talk about arrogant! I know that has nothing to do with the situation we were talking about but it just popped into my head. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 20 Apr 2001 00:59:42 +0100 From: catman Subject: Itchy feet NJC Okay I have had answers to stuff before so try this one(my dr has not come up with an explanation): I don't drink alchohol. One reason being that if I do, even only a glass full, the soles of my feet get unbearably itchy. Why? - -- bw colin BRO GC, 950i, 864, 260, Silver 830 and 270, Passap 6000 Duo80 colin@tantra.fsbusiness.co.uk http://www.geocities.com/tantra_apso/index.html ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 19 Apr 2001 21:15:32 EDT From: SCJoniGuy@aol.com Subject: Re: Urge for Going << I just listened to Tom Rush's version of Urge for Going. He sings a verse that isn't on the Lyrics Page on this site. Any idea if he wrote the additional verse or if it was a verse that Joni wrote. >> Hey Doug! I'm sure that Joni wrote all these verses, she just didn't record them all herself. Same thing with Conversation, she sings an extra verse in a live performance that she didn't record. Pete Seeger does Both Sides Now and he recorded an extra verse, but it was one he wrote himself. Urge for Going is Joni's #5 most recorded song, and they keep coming! Luka Bloom just did it, and this month sees a new release by Jill Theriot where she covers it as well. More "royalty pennies" for Joni! :~) Bob NP: Ginger McKenzie, "High" PS: Welcome if you're new, and thanks for de-lurking if you're not! ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 19 Apr 2001 21:53:59 -0400 (EDT) From: Catherine McKay Subject: Re: block of ice - --- catman wrote: > I heard Joni sing (in my mined) 'block of > ice'. Which song is > this from? I am pretty sure it is from THSOL album. > I know I could go look it up but thought I'd give > you the thrill of > being able to answer it just off the top of your > head. > It has probably been answered about ten times by now, but it's Shades of Scarlett Conquering - so you mined that from your mind, eh? Get your free @yahoo.ca address at http://mail.yahoo.ca ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 19 Apr 2001 21:57:26 -0400 (EDT) From: Catherine McKay Subject: Re: Hejira lyric alterations - --- SCJoniGuy@aol.com wrote: > < a > song as a living piece of art, not static, but > flexible, changeable, evolving. >> > > Oh, absolutely, Alison...but this can confound the > fans, with Joni I think the more striking examples > are the versions of "Banquet","Song For Sharon", and > "Sweet Bird" she performed on her '83 WTRF tour. > Lots of fans (and reviewers) seemed to be displeased > with her re-working of these songs. Why don't they just stay home and listen to the album then? unimaginative fools. Get your free @yahoo.ca address at http://mail.yahoo.ca ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 19 Apr 2001 19:00:01 -0700 From: "Mark or Travis" Subject: Re: Hejira lyric alterations my guess is that is part of what drove her > to do the BSN project; being able to take songs that > were never hers and really tweak them, reinterpret and > make them her own, as well as the "radical" > interpretations of ACOY and BSN she put on the album. > alison e. in nyc > np: seldom scene This reminded me of something I've been turning over in my head lately. Although Bob's covers project kind of blows my theory all to hell. But anyway, here goes. It seems to me that a lot of Joni's material from say, THOSL on, doesn't leave much room for vocal interpretation. By that I don't mean that a singer can't change the tempo or the phrasing or tinker with the melody. It just seems to me that Joni pretty much lays everything out there in the lyrics. Even though you can interpret specific phrases in different ways, the meaning of the song as a whole is usually fairly clear & fleshed out. I guess what I mean is that emotionally, everything's pretty well mapped out in Joni's songs. Think of the standards that Joni recorded on BSN. Most of them have beautiful melodies and lyrics that, although they are very literate, don't as a rule go nearly as deep as Joni's songs. So a singer can kind of relax, secure in the fact that they're singing a pretty song and kind of add their own emotional subtext to the lyrics. The words are more of a starting point. Whereas with Joni's songs, the words are a done deal. It's all there. Billie Holiday is often praised for having taken songs that are lyrically mediocre or worse and turning them into little works of art through the genius of her interpretation. Would Billie or Sarah Vaughan or Ella Fitzgerald have tried to interpret Joni's songs if Joni had been their contemporary? If so, I wonder how they would have sung them? For a vocalist who doesn't write, where does the quality material come from these days? The covers project proves that there are singers doing Joni's songs, but how many of those covers end up being hits? How many people who are gifted with great voices & interpretative singing skills are left to either sing mediocre material or revert back to doing the tried & true standards? For the record, I have heard a few singers who can interpret Joni very well & somehow manage to add something of themselves to the material. After all this time I am finally getting around to listening to Bob's Covers, Volume 2 and I loved Christine Collister's takes on the Joni songs she sang. There was also a singer that Kakki sent me a tape of but I can't think of her name right now. Karla Lembach or something like that? The Mixons & I think the Dulsons saw her perform at Top of the Mark in SF. The Joni song she sings(Song to a Seagull, I believe) is really beautiful as well. Cassandra Wilson is certainly pushing the envelope with the material she records but I still don't like her version of 'Black Crow' and her 'Drycleaner' on the TNT tribute was kinda lackluster, I thought. Anyone else? Mark in Seattle ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 19 Apr 2001 22:21:53 EDT From: Relayer211@aol.com Subject: Re: block of ice I was thinking today about the "Gone with the wind" references in the song SOSC:"Scarlett" and "Gable." ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 19 Apr 2001 23:06:33 -0400 From: "Jim L'Hommedieu" Subject: Neil embraces DVD-Audio, njc Neil Young likes DVD-Audio and wants Warner to re-release EVERYTHING in his Warner catalog in the new format. http://www.soundandvisionmag.com/SoundAndVision/Article01/Features/NeilYoung 021301/NeilYoung021301p01.html Neil fans should know that an audiophile on the Cowboy Junkies list recommends Neil at Red Rocks. (I dunno the exact title.) Lama ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 19 Apr 2001 18:24:27 -0300 From: "Wally Kairuz" Subject: RE: block of ice shades of scarlett, colin. ''lovers in anger, block of ice...'' wallyK, thrilled to be of help - -----Mensaje original----- De: owner-joni@jmdl.com [mailto:owner-joni@jmdl.com]En nombre de catman Enviado el: Jueves, 19 de Abril de 2001 02:33 p.m. Para: joni Asunto: block of ice I was driving thru Suffolk today. A stunning county for scenery and old old homes-like 13/14th century. Painted much by Constable. Anyhow, the weather went from sunny to a sudden downpour of ice, really heavy. As it did, I heard Joni sing (in my mined) 'block of ice'. Which song is this from? I am pretty sure it is from THSOL album. I know I could go look it up but thought I'd give you the thrill of being able to answer it just off the top of your head. - -- bw colin BRO GC, 950i, 864, 260, Silver 830 and 270, Passap 6000 Duo80 colin@tantra.fsbusiness.co.uk http://www.geocities.com/tantra_apso/index.html ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 20 Apr 2001 01:29:57 -0400 From: "Stephen Epstein" Subject: Re: Hejira lyric alterationsWould Billie or Sarah Mark from Seattle said: "I guess what I mean is that emotionally, everything's pretty well mapped out in Joni's songs." Yes, I agree, Mark. But lyrics are lyrics, words are words. Many have tried to cover Joni performing her songs in the same way, and others have altered from the original. To me, the emotion that is in the lyrics of the standards, is pretty much the same as the emotions in Joni's work. But JM has come from an era when things are spoken of in quite a different manner from the era that the standards were written in. JM's baring of soul, was not so commonplace back then. Joni goes much deeper, of course, but hopefully the inspiration that have led some to cover standards is the same reason that others have chosen to cover JM. "Would Billie or Sarah Vaughan or Ella Fitzgerald have tried to interpret Joni's songs if Joni had been their contemporary?" Well,Sarah Vaughan is my all-time favourite female singer- in my mind, no one comes close- not even Ella. (Perhaps, Blossom Dearie) Yet both of them shared a good 20 years or so, before they died, with Joni being in the limelight. And yet, to my knowledge, neither of them covered any JM songs. Who knows why? Probably too difficult for them to tackle musically, rather than lyrically. "How many people who are gifted with great voices & interpretative singing skills are left to either sing mediocre material or revert back to doing the tried & true standards?" A good question Mark, and one I have asked myself for years! There are SO many out there w/great voices, and IMHO are singing the wrong kind of things- Celine Dion is the first to come to mind- a great voice- horrible songs! There are so many- Sting, Elvis Costello, Fiona Apple, Beth Orton, Sarah Mclaghin....... many more w/fabulous voices, that I think should be singing only jazz. Granted, people like Sting, Elvis..... have done some interesting things. As always, Mark, your posts are thought provoking- and thanks for that. Best regards, Stephen in Vancouver NP: Marvin Gaye- When Did You Stop Loving Me? ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 19 Apr 2001 23:29:59 -0700 From: susan+rick Subject: Re: Hejira lyric alterations On 4/19/01 6:57 PM, Catherine McKay wrote > Why don't they just stay home and listen to the album > then? unimaginative fools. Harsh words, Catherine but they remind me of Joni's Van Gogh analogy which I have always considered flawed. (I know this has already been discussed but I didn't say anything that time!) I consider listening to an album to be roughly equivalent to looking through a really good art book, the kind with the pictures on separate pages protected by onion skin (do they still make those?). Going to a concert is then similar, in my mind, to making a pilgrimage to the museum to see the original. Are you going to be disappointed with the original? The lighting, size, or placement may make you look at it in a new way but it will probably be the same picture you travelled all those miles to see and you'll still be thrilled. But if the artist has come back to add a perm to the Mona Lisa or a Ferris wheel to A Starry Night then you're likely to be a bit disappointed with your museum experience. (Damn, this all seemed so logical when I sat down at the keyboard...I blame the flu for any apparent lack of coherence. Don't laugh, I'm sick, okay?) What my fevered brain is trying to get across is that some changes to a song can be considered equivalent to adding a moustache. Especially those songs which you feel are an important part of how you got where you are. An artist who, I think, understands this and gives his fans what they want is James Taylor, who, though he always brings freshness to his 30+ year-old songs, still keeps them close enough in concert to what people have loved for those 30 years that they are never disappointed. All of this is IMHO and with the greatest respect for those who can see A Case Of You on Blue and Both Sides Now as equally praiseworthy. Ranger Rick, who if he sits here any longer will hit delete with his nose as he passes out. Maybe that would be a good thing! ------------------------------ End of JMDL Digest V2001 #185 ***************************** ------- Post messages to the list by clicking here: mailto:joni@smoe.org Unsubscribe by clicking here: mailto:joni-digest-request@smoe.org?body=unsubscribe ------- Siquomb, isn't she?