From: les@jmdl.com (JMDL Digest) To: joni-digest@smoe.org Subject: JMDL Digest V2001 #173 Reply-To: joni@smoe.org Sender: les@jmdl.com Errors-To: les@jmdl.com Precedence: bulk Unsubscribe: mailto:joni-digest-request@smoe.org?body=unsubscribe Archives: http://www.smoe.org/lists/joni Websites: http://www.jmdl.com http://www.jonimitchell.com JMDL Digest Thursday, April 12 2001 Volume 2001 : Number 173 The 'Official' Joni Mitchell Homepage, created by Wally Breese, can be found at http://www.jonimitchell.com. It contains the latest news, a detailed bio, Original Interviews, essays, lyrics and much much more. The JMDL website can be found at http://www.jmdl.com and contains interviews, articles, the member gallery, archives, and much more. Information on the 4th "Annual" New England JoniFest: http://www.jmdl.com/jfne2001.cfm The Joni Chat Room: http://www.jmdl.com/chat.cfm ========== TOPICS and authors in this Digest: -------- april 11!!!!!!!!!! njc ["Wally Kairuz" ] What I'd really like to ask Joni [Steve Dulson ] Re: Art vs. Pop Culture NJC [dsk ] Steve's concert database (VLJC) [Steve Dulson ] Laura Nyro ["Kate Bennett" ] Re: Art vs. Pop Culture NJC [catman ] pt2 Art vs. Pop Culture NJC [catman ] Re: onlyJMDL Digest V2001 #116 [StDoherty@aol.com] Re: onlyJMDL Digest V2001 #116 [StDoherty@aol.com] Re: onlyJMDL Digest V2001 #116 [StDoherty@aol.com] Re: onlyJMDL Digest V2001 #116 [StDoherty@aol.com] Re: Laura Nyro (NJC) [RoseMJoy@aol.com] Re: onlyJMDL Digest V2001 #116 [Coyote4Joni@aol.com] Re: onlyJMDL Digest V2001 #116 [Coyote4Joni@aol.com] Re: In defense of Yoko NJC (long) ["Mark or Travis" ] Re: In defense of Yoko NJC (long) ["Mark or Travis" ] Re: More Jazz Takes, NJC ["Jim L'Hommedieu" ] Re: More Jazz Takes, NJC ["Kakki" ] ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Wed, 11 Apr 2001 19:09:48 -0300 From: "Wally Kairuz" Subject: april 11!!!!!!!!!! njc happy birthday, joseph palis!!!!! wherefore art thou, by the way???? the JMDL BIRTHDAY FAIRY, ever tho inquithitive ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 11 Apr 2001 15:12:52 -0700 From: Steve Dulson Subject: What I'd really like to ask Joni One of those "other" Steve's wrote: > 5. If I paid for planefare, would you show up at Asharafest? Careful, Steve! When The Old Town School flew her from LA to Chicago for a benefit, she insisted on a private jet. The $$$ are in the archives somewhere. The (then) director of the school says that he gets really nice Christmas cards from the charter company. :) - -- ######################################################## Steve Dulson Costa Mesa CA steve@psitech.com "The Tinker's Own" http://www.tinkersown.com "Southern California Dulcimer Heritage" http://www.cpmusic.com/scdh "The Living Tradition Concert Series" http://www.thelivingtradition.org/ ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 11 Apr 2001 18:31:00 -0400 From: dsk Subject: Re: Art vs. Pop Culture NJC catman wrote: > > < > culture" is a ficticious one, >> > > Anything that a human being creates is art. A car is art, a plane, a building, a painting, a sculpture, a piece of furniture, an item of clothing....all are art. Some of it is so common place we don't even look at it. Maybe we don't even notice how it affects us. I don't think everything is the same. How can it be? The Mona Lisa equal in value to my niece's drawing? Much as I love her drawing, I doubt that people will look at it hundreds of years from now and admire its aesthetic qualities or look for clues about our culture in it. So I'd say anything a human being creates and all the creations you've listed are of value, but not automatically art. > The borderline between high art and pop culture is the same one that exists between lower class and upper class...... All in the mind of the person creating the border. You don't think there's a line between lower and upper classes? I think it's harder to cross that line than it is to cross racial lines, maybe because people want to act like class differences don't exist. They very much exist, in actuality, not just in any one person's mind. > Creating is important to me. I know my work is art. It doesn't matter to me what other people call it. Some like it, some don't. Most importantly, I like it. And that's all that's important when it comes down to it. Living and expressing one's self authentically is all we need to do, and then the labels on our creations don't matter (and are usually put there by other people anyway). > discalimer: the above is my opinion only. It is not meant to denigrate anyone of a differring opinion. I might think you are a pratt for not sharing my opinion, but I am far too gentlemanly to say so. My opinion differs A LOT from yours. Guess I'm very pratt-like, eh? I don't know what "a pratt" means exactly, but assume it's derogatory. Oh, well, your choice to see me that way. I went to an art school called Pratt Institute. Wow, I guess I'm capital-P Pratt-like now. Is that dangerous? :-) atb, Debra Shea ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 11 Apr 2001 15:27:53 -0700 From: Steve Dulson Subject: Steve's concert database (VLJC) OK, fellow music sluts! After some private inquiries, I have put my concert database, that supreme example of anal-retentiveness, on-line at Quickbase at: https://www.quickbase.com/db/6yw6x5gv?act=q&qid=5 It's sorted alphabetically by artist, and is searchable. Quickbase has scrambled the artist's appearance dates, so those are out-of-sequence, but figure-out-able. (Anyone with any Quickbase experience now how to fix this?) Fields are: Sequence of shows (that artist) Artist Venue City Date Rating (1 to 5, with an asterisk being a plus) Who I went with (or encountered there) You can look for your favorite (or least) artist, and see if I've seen 'em and if so what I thought. (Check out all the Joni shows.) Some minor interpretive work can tell you a lot about my dating days, too. :) All the best! - -- ######################################################## Steve Dulson Costa Mesa CA steve@psitech.com "The Tinker's Own" http://www.tinkersown.com "Southern California Dulcimer Heritage" http://www.cpmusic.com/scdh "The Living Tradition Concert Series" http://www.thelivingtradition.org/ ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 11 Apr 2001 15:27:45 -0700 From: "Kate Bennett" Subject: Laura Nyro >>NP: Laura Nyro, "Don't Hurt Child" (Very soothing, instantly likeable from her new/posthumous release - a must have for you Laura fans!)<<< Haven't heard this yet but my friend & extraordinary guitar player Jeff Pevar played on four of these tracks ... ******************************************** Kate Bennett www.katebennett.com sponsored by Polysonics www.polysonics.com Discover the Indies at Taylor Guitars: http://www.taylorguitars.com/artists/awp/indies/bennett.html ******************************************** ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 12 Apr 2001 00:13:13 +0100 From: catman Subject: Re: Art vs. Pop Culture NJC dsk wrote: > catman wrote: > > > > < > > culture" is a ficticious one, >> > > > > Anything that a human being creates is art. A car is art, a plane, a building, a painting, a sculpture, a piece of furniture, an item of clothing....all are art. Some of it is so common place we don't even look at it. Maybe we don't even notice how it affects us. > > I don't think everything is the same. How can it be? The Mona Lisa equal in value to my niece's drawing? Much as I love her drawing, I doubt that people will look at it hundreds of years from now and admire its aesthetic qualities or look for clues about our culture > in it. Don't put words in my mouth or rather on my keyboard! I didn't say any of the above. All i said was that it is all art. i didn't qualify it and I certainly didn't say it was all the same. > > > > So I'd say anything a human being creates and all the creations you've listed are of value, but not automatically art. It depends on your defination of art, I guess. I do call it all art. It seems to me, maybe I am wrong, that you are separating them according to your aesthetic values. That is different. > > > > The borderline between high art and pop culture is the same one that exists between lower class and upper class...... All in the mind of the person creating the border. > > You don't think there's a line between lower and upper classes? Not a real one. It is one put there by people. People are people and of equal value and status at root. the demarcation lines we draw are bullshit. > I think it's harder to cross that line than it is to cross racial lines, maybe because people want to act like class differences don't exist. They very much exist, in actuality, not just in any one > person's mind. The idea of class difference exists in many people's minds, true. it doesn't make the difference real. I know that class divides are difficult to get across but they are idea that people think, not a real dividing line. > > > > Creating is important to me. I know my work is art. It doesn't matter to me what other people call it. Some like it, some don't. Most importantly, I like it. > > And that's all that's important when it comes down to it. Living and expressing one's self authentically is all we need to do, and then the labels on our creations don't matter (and are usually put there by other people anyway). That was my point(your last sentence here) > > > > discalimer: the above is my opinion only. It is not meant to denigrate anyone of a differring opinion. I might think you are a pratt for not sharing my opinion, but I am far too gentlemanly to say so. > > My opinion differs A LOT from yours. I don't think it does necessarily. youaddressed different issues to mine, at first and then later said 'and then the labels on our creations don't matter (and are usually put there by other people anyway).' which is in agreement with me. > Guess I'm very pratt-like, eh? only half a pratt! > I don't know what "a pratt" means exactly, but assume it's derogatory. yes. I guess it's the equivalent of arsehole! > Oh, well, your choice to see me that way. I went to an art school called Pratt Institute. Wow, I guess I'm capital-P > Pratt-like now. Is that dangerous? :-) Just as long as you know I had my toungue in MY cheek. > > > atb, > Debra Shea - -- bw colin colin@tantra.fsbusiness.co.uk http://www.geocities.com/tantra_apso/index.html ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 12 Apr 2001 00:32:44 +0100 From: catman Subject: pt2 Art vs. Pop Culture NJC > I don't think everything is the same. How can it be? The Mona Lisa equal in value to my niece's drawing? Much as I love her drawing, I doubt that people will look at it hundreds of years from now and admire its aesthetic qualities or look for clues about our culture > in it. no they won't but it has equal merit as regards an expression of her soul. Maybe more merit as it isn't a studied expression but a free one. The room I am sitting is wallpapered with a design I do not like. I haven't changed because it is at least light and therefore makes this an easier room to work in. I know the designs took someone a while to do. i don't care for it at all and don't look at it, especially the border with the clowns on! It is still art though, regardless of whether I think it has merit or not or even whether or not I like it. I'd much rather have a painting of a dog on my wall than the Mona Lisa. In fact i'd rather have the money some fool would pay for the Mona Lisa! I remember a few years some obscene sum was paid by Japan(about $60mill) for I think a Van Gogh. That is corrupt and not why Van Gogh painted it. I like Salvador dali paintings because they interest me. i have a print of Edvard Munch's The Ream because it 'hit' me when i first saw it. I love Joni's TI cover. I also like the English guy who painted country scenes and horses etc. Constable? And i like those 'fat' people paintings by Beryl Whatsit although the 'art' establishedment pooed pooed her talent because it didn't fit in with their snobbish views. Art is art and to me that means everything human kind crreates from tools to buildings to clothing to cars to buildings etc. As to their 'value' ect well that is a different argument altogethr(totally subjective too) and not one I was addressing. bw colin ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 11 Apr 2001 19:40:30 EDT From: StDoherty@aol.com Subject: Re: onlyJMDL Digest V2001 #116 In a message dated 4/11/01 3:18:08 AM Eastern Daylight Time, les@jmdl.com writes: << an jokes: Would you consider your song, 'Chuck E.'s In Love', autobiographical? And if it is, is 'Chuck E.' black? Gay? Nice Miyake- did you get it new? Do you and Bjork ever share clothing? Rick writes: This absolutely cracks me up, Jan. I am laughing so hard here in Jackson, MS. The funniest one yet. More levity, PLEASE! Coyote Rick Casa Alegre Hollywood, California >> Me too! And if Joni were to play her own records ... what might they be? ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 11 Apr 2001 19:42:47 EDT From: StDoherty@aol.com Subject: Re: onlyJMDL Digest V2001 #116 In a message dated 4/11/01 3:18:08 AM Eastern Daylight Time, les@jmdl.com writes: << To all concerned listers: Why should a person get away with attempting to censor free thoughts no different than many before it; personalizing insults over something they totally misunderstood at the same time. If it was you what would you do. Then they take a private post, selectively edit it to their own purposes, and make false accusations about "threats" that never happened. To not respond is to allow such defamatory stuff to go unanswered. My suggestion is that all those who want to ignore the entire matter to do so. Delete it. On the other hand you might want to read it. This is an opportunity to lessen these kinds of things but people have to know what happened. I have up until the most recent posts allowed much to be said and assumed without public response. This last thing claimed however i dont think should go unanswered. Those who know me I welcome your advice and input.Trust that I have no intention of making the issue bigger and hurling more personal counterstatements. I think it is time f! ! or clarity of the general issue. I would be more than happy to first send it to L es and let him vette it prior to me posting it. marcel deste >> Im sure I missed something, but this just isn't fun. The Joni questions .. now that is. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 11 Apr 2001 19:43:53 EDT From: StDoherty@aol.com Subject: Re: onlyJMDL Digest V2001 #116 In a message dated 4/11/01 3:18:08 AM Eastern Daylight Time, les@jmdl.com writes: << Subject: Ode to Joni >> Very nice ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 11 Apr 2001 19:44:44 EDT From: StDoherty@aol.com Subject: Re: onlyJMDL Digest V2001 #116 In a message dated 4/11/01 3:18:08 AM Eastern Daylight Time, les@jmdl.com writes: << I want to hear the music again. I want to hear Joni. I want my friends to stop driving each other out of the JMDL. (the Rev) Vince >> Well put! ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 11 Apr 2001 19:50:43 EDT From: RoseMJoy@aol.com Subject: Re: Laura Nyro (NJC) In a message dated 4/11/01 7:01:20 PM Eastern Daylight Time, kate@katebennett.com writes: > Haven't heard this yet but my friend & extraordinary guitar player Jeff > Pevar played on four of these tracks ... > > Hi Kate. Welcome back! Yes, your friend Jeff plays on: Will You Still Love Me Tomorrow (love this one) Ooh Baby, Baby La La means I love You Be Aware It said in the insert that on the first day of the recordings she placed pictures of her mother and maternal grandfather on her piano to guide her. They were her angels, the people that raised her. - -Rose in NJ rosemjoy@aol.com ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 11 Apr 2001 20:56:24 EDT From: Coyote4Joni@aol.com Subject: Re: onlyJMDL Digest V2001 #116 I am so confused. Coyote Rick (all time poster of late) Casa Alegre Hollywood, California ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 11 Apr 2001 21:02:02 EDT From: Coyote4Joni@aol.com Subject: Re: onlyJMDL Digest V2001 #116 In a message dated 04/11/2001 4:54:35 PM Pacific Daylight Time, StDoherty@aol.com writes: Rev Writes: Want to hear the music again. I want to hear Joni. I want my friends to stop driving each other out of the JMDL. Coyote assures: We're still here Vince, are you? Coyote Rick (the damnedest poster of late -- and British too! I think!) ya, ya, ya You got it. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 11 Apr 2001 19:18:43 -0700 From: "Mark or Travis" Subject: Re: In defense of Yoko NJC (long) > I've done lots of disagreeing here, Don, but I hope you realize it's > without rancor or disagreeing just for the sake of arguing. Once I get > started on this art stuff that I love, there's not much holding back... Debra, I always enjoy reading your posts about art. I always find them informative and interesting but never feel I am being 'talked down to.' Thank you for taking the time to write them. Mark in Seattle ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 11 Apr 2001 19:20:46 -0700 From: "Mark or Travis" Subject: Re: In defense of Yoko NJC (long) > Isn't it cool when we can have civil discourse? :-) > > Don Rowe It's wonderful! Mark in Seattle ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 11 Apr 2001 23:44:25 -0400 From: "Jim L'Hommedieu" Subject: Re: More Jazz Takes, NJC Someone forgot to tell Michael that the thread for the week is "Vitriol". Here's hoping that Les considers posting this as a review of Mr. Lahm's new one. (I bought two copies, David, so my father's collection grows as well.) Here's a reprint of Paz'es review, just in case some people were tempted to delete whole digests for a few days! :) Love to all, Lama *** Date: Wed, 11 Apr 2001 15:21:41 -0500 From: "Michael Paz" Subject: More Jazz Takes Hello Gang- I have been listening to David Lahm's new CD for over two weeks now and have been trying to get around to posting about it. I have my cd player programmed to listen to it in the order ( 1, 9,11,10,2, 8, 5, 6, 3, 4, 7) that he David had intended it to be sequenced before (I assume) the record company got involved, but I digress. The real charm of this record is that it boasts 4 original David Lahm tunes. I had only heard one of them before which is Wayne Swirled, that Lahm performed live in New Orleans last year at JoniFest2000 New Orleans. One of the amazing things about the record is listening to these original jazz compositions right next to the compositions of folk singer/singer-songwriter, Joni Mitchell (ok now my tongue is FIRMLY planted in cheek we all know she is worldwide musically). Unlike the first record where he picked more tunes that were pre Joni's established Jazz era like Fiddle and The Drum, Blonde in the Bleachers, etc., Dave picked some real jazz gems for this record. On both records though I think it shows that even Joni's pre-jazz era shows that here whole approach to music was one that was radically different than most of her all of her contemporary songwriters. The BEST thing on this new record is Ladies of the Canyon which he plays as a solo piece and it is simply beautiful. I had the honour of having David as a guest in my home not once but twice and we were treated to him playing solo piano right in our very own living room. I was able to jam with him as well and also here him with several of my favorite JMDL vocalists, but then I keep digressing yet again. For whatever reason David chooses not to feature his piano playing more prominently in the recordings, this would be my only complaint about the Jazz/Joni series recordings. If there is a new Lahm production in the works I would love to hear MORE piano from a very fine player. With this said, David's ability to take a back seat on his own recordings is truly amazing. His arrangements allow his very gifted sideman to shine through to beautiful results. Of all of his original songs included in this set I favour San Diego Holiday for the sheer joy that jumps out of this recording. My favorite arrangement for the band of the Joni songs, is In France They Kiss On Mainstreet. Jason Marsalis Band did this one at JoniFest here and I was blown away by his arrangement, but David's arrangement takes it alot farther especially in the area of bass. Great playing and really interesting textures of tone and sound. This one really swings! The band really stretchs things out here and it is wonderful execution as an ensemble. Another of my faves from the Joni collection is Offnight Backstreet. Her version is amazing and I have wanted to cover it myself for years, but can't find the groove between my heart, left and right brain, mouth, and hands. David's treatment here is more of a ballad than Joni's approach and it works beautifully. The melody shines through more prominently and the horns are really sweet on this one. Woodstock has two versions the album opener and the final cut radio (clean) version. I guess the language and phrasing was just too much for modern day radio (just kidding!). Don Juan's Restless Daughter from the era when Joni was so deep into the jazz thing with Jaco, Pat, et al. is a natural for this band. The interplay between the horn instruments is extremely well done and the rhythm section holds up a swinging groove for this interplay to just fly. I really like the mute trumpet part in this song (which I assume is Randy Brecker). The horn section on Walk This Way (another Lahm original) is once again stellar you can almost feel them grinning on this one. The joy just shines out. Brecker's solo here is sheer excellence (and you know we got some trumpet players around New Orleans. This guy could hang in the birthplace of jazz and we would welcome him with open arms). The Silky Veils of Ardor is another beautiful piece that leans nods towards the ballad approach. I love Ron Vincent's hands on approach to the drums on this one. This is truly another beautiful piece and had we had an independent NON BIAS producer we might have turned up the piano player in the mix more. Vibeca the final Lahm original on the album boasts a really cool bass solo by Ratso Harris. Brazilian feel always does it for me, if you want the keys to the city you should add more percussion and maybe a gut string guitar. Black Crow is as straight jazz as you can get and the interplay between the horns again is swinging. I would love to see David tour this stuff as well as the first record. Hearing him live in New Orleans with a pick up band was So much fun and his arrangements I think go over very well with a live audience and would be great in jazz clubs like Snug Harbor that we have here in New Orleans. While I am wishing for stuff like this (and Joni playing piano on tour again). I wish David would do a record with other instruments besides the regular saxes, trumpets as lead instruments. There are still tons more Joni songs you could do some more arrangements for and take a few wild turns. More solo piano stuff as well! But hey David don't go changing just to please US, we love you just the way you are. I hope you ALL go out and buy this new record and the first Jazz Takes on Joni Mitchell if you don't have them AND I hear he is hosting a JoniFest in NYC on Memorial Day weekend which we want to hear more details about what's going on at Judy's Chelsea. I wish I could be there, but it is still doubtful due to family obligations (if it were just my job I would blow it off, but my kids have to come first).Anyways, I have gone on long enough, check this record out for your own selves and enjoy the music. Cheers David and I hope you do great with this one. Peace Michael NP-Wayne Swirled *** ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 11 Apr 2001 21:20:20 -0700 From: "Kakki" Subject: Re: More Jazz Takes, NJC Thanks to Paz for the review - I can't wait to hear it! The memories of New Orleans are still fresh in my mind, being woken up at Chez Paz by Lahm and band giving a private concert in the living room. I hope Paz can get the Joni tribute show released one of these days. Kakki, wishing and hoping to hear it live in New York soon P.S. Thank you, too, Lama for the ROTR video! ------------------------------ End of JMDL Digest V2001 #173 ***************************** ------- Post messages to the list by clicking here: mailto:joni@smoe.org Unsubscribe by clicking here: mailto:joni-digest-request@smoe.org?body=unsubscribe ------- Siquomb, isn't she?