From: les@jmdl.com (JMDL Digest) To: joni-digest@smoe.org Subject: JMDL Digest V2001 #171 Reply-To: joni@smoe.org Sender: les@jmdl.com Errors-To: les@jmdl.com Precedence: bulk Unsubscribe: mailto:joni-digest-request@smoe.org?body=unsubscribe Archives: http://www.smoe.org/lists/joni Websites: http://www.jmdl.com http://www.jonimitchell.com JMDL Digest Wednesday, April 11 2001 Volume 2001 : Number 171 The 'Official' Joni Mitchell Homepage, created by Wally Breese, can be found at http://www.jonimitchell.com. It contains the latest news, a detailed bio, Original Interviews, essays, lyrics and much much more. The JMDL website can be found at http://www.jmdl.com and contains interviews, articles, the member gallery, archives, and much more. Information on the 4th "Annual" New England JoniFest: http://www.jmdl.com/jfne2001.cfm The Joni Chat Room: http://www.jmdl.com/chat.cfm ========== TOPICS and authors in this Digest: -------- Re: In defense of Yoko NJC [philipf@tinet.ie] Re: not bjork, but the list NJC [dsk ] Re: bjork/sexism NJC [Alison E ] Re: What I'd really love to ask Joni. [catman ] lay down our arms (njc) [Anne Sandstrom ] Re: What I'd really love to ask Joni. [Coyote4Joni@aol.com] Re: What I'd really love to ask Joni.] [catman ] Re: Joni Goes To Hollywood (NJC) [Coyote4Joni@aol.com] Re: Mo' Covers: Sweet #16... [SCJoniGuy@aol.com] Re: Joni Goes To Hollywood [SCJoniGuy@aol.com] Tomorrows response fear not. (md) [MDESTE1@aol.com] misc. njc [Randy Remote ] Re: Blame it all on Smoe NJC [JRMCo1@aol.com] Re: What I'd really love to ask Joni. [jan gyn ] Ode to Joni [pyramus@lineone.net] Survivor [Vince Lavieri ] Re: What I'd really love to ask Joni. ["Kate Bennett" ] Sue Terry on sax (NJC) ["Lori R. Fye" ] Re: NJC Re: bjork/sexism NJC (md) ["Mark or Travis" ] Lighten up ["janine sherman" ] Re: hollywood bowl setlist ["Victor Johnson" ] explain my song to me NJC ["Wally Kairuz" ] Re: explain my song to me NJC [SCJoniGuy@aol.com] RE: explain my song to me NJC ["Wally Kairuz" ] Re: april 10th!!!!!! njc! [Catherine McKay ] Re: What I'd really love to ask Joni. [Coyote4Joni@aol.com] This List/Napigator Question NJC ["Christopher J. Treacy" ] Re: hollywood bowl setlist(njc) ["Victor Johnson" ] Re: Sue Terry on sax (NJC) [TerryM2222@aol.com] All this talk about Bjorkiness now njc [evian ] En boca cerrada no entran moscas. NJC ["Jim L'Hommedieu" ] Re: april 10th!!!!!! njc! ["Kakki" ] Re: hollywood bowl setlist ["Kakki" ] RE: Hell (as in Helen, not the place you go to if you dance or play cards) njc ["Wally Kairuz" . Her efforts are in a > completely different league than the Beatles. She's art; the Beatles are > popular culture. The two can't be compared, and if they are, then the > Beatles are the ones lacking in substance, enjoyable as their music is. > Hi Debra, Your note was very interesting and I wanted to ask you about art vs popular culture which you mentioned a few times. Are you saying that once a piece of art becomes popular it ceases to be proper art or is somehow lacking in substance ? I thought that kind of argument was over years ago. Artists like Warhol, Lichtenstein, Blake etc embraced the frivolity of pop and rock n' roll. Warhol wanted the banality of popular culture. Yoko is ok but if you asked me to choose some pieces of "auditory conceptual art" right now. I'd pick Heatwave by Martha and The Vandellas, In Dreams by Roy Orbison and Since I Left You by The Avalanches. In truth I had no choice about that last one as it's what's playing now. Philip ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 10 Apr 2001 14:37:11 -0400 From: dsk Subject: Re: not bjork, but the list NJC Ranger Rick, I don't understand why you are taking on the responsibility for this currently uncomfortable time. Nothing started with you, although your attempt to quickly quiet it all down is admirable. You gave your heartfelt reaction, without any nastiness at all. That's what a good discussion is all about. This will pass, soon we all hope, although unless it's played out fully it will just pop up soon in another form. So, delete delete delete whatever is bothersome and look forward to truly better times. That's my advice anyway, for whatever it's worth. Debra Shea NP: Django Reinhardt, Minor Swing, from the Chocolat movie soundtrack. Maybe we should have a group outing to see Chocolat and just let ourselves all melt into the mush of it. Might be a cure for these testy times. susan+rick wrote: > As Marcel pointed out to me, my post about Bjork included his name along > with a condemnation of the list he posted. Although others may have written > after I did or may have written even if I had said nothing, I will accept > responsibility for starting this war. > > I wish to formally apologize to Marcel for targeting him in my post. > > I also ask that, for the good of the list, all people involved in this war > end it now without further posting. > > Sincerely > Ranger Rick ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 10 Apr 2001 11:46:22 -0700 (PDT) From: Alison E Subject: Re: bjork/sexism NJC - --- Emily Kirk Gray wrote: > that> i couldn't find a way TO DESCRIBE TO certain kinds> of> people why making offensive sexist jokes > is...pathetic. > which i will stand by. > but i can not, and won't, keep quiet when i read > something sexist and hurtful and offensive. > --emily for someone (harper) to criticize emily for expressing how she felt about a blatantly sexist and mysoginistic (sorry, marcel, i know you hate that word) characterization of an artist that she (and I, and several others on this list) admire and listen to with joy, is silly. how can you criticize her for her feelings? her honest reaction? hey, no big surprise, i was ALSO offended. it is such a tired old line of sexist bullshit that i can't believe a guy as smart as marcel would even resort to the "knee pads" reference. so, emily, here i stand with you in defense of all the women AND MEN on the list who found your top ten list on bjork juvenile and lacking in wit or intelligence. and yes, sexist as all hell, and very expressive of your contempt for women. and if someone wants to criticize me for elite intellectualism and political correctness, "dear emily" embittered imagination, someone so sure of herself she can wear a dead swan on national TV. Since you are humorless in that regard, you certainly are not qualified to judge what is funny or not. YOU chose to respond with an ugly personal attack against Marcel Get email at your own domain with Yahoo! Mail. http://personal.mail.yahoo.com/ ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 10 Apr 2001 19:48:46 +0100 From: catman Subject: Re: What I'd really love to ask Joni. jan gyn wrote: > Would you consider your song, 'Chuck E.'s In Love', autobiographical? > > And if it is, is 'Chuck E.' black? Gay? mmm...I think that is an RLJ song! > > > Nice Miyake- did you get it new? I have some Issy smellies. nice. > > > Do you and Bjork ever share clothing? > > -jan - -- bw colin colin@tantra.fsbusiness.co.uk http://www.geocities.com/tantra_apso/index.html ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 10 Apr 2001 19:50:23 +0100 From: catman Subject: Re: What I'd really love to ask Joni. I wonder if Joni does play her own records? ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 10 Apr 2001 11:57:49 -0700 (PDT) From: Don Rowe Subject: Re: What I'd really love to ask Joni. - --- catman wrote: > > > I wonder if Joni does play her own records? > That really IS an interesting question. My guess would be ... probably not. I write and record my own songs, but play them only while I'm in the recording and production phase. Once they're "done" ... listening to the finished results isn't actually a very enjoyable experience, since all I can hear are the little "mistakes", and other "things I'd have done differently". It really can be quite maddening. But, who knows -- Prince has claimed he pretty much listens ONLY to his own stuff (and it shows, in my opinion) ... so I could easily be all wet! Don Rowe ===== Visit me anytime at http://www.mp3.com/donrowe Get email at your own domain with Yahoo! Mail. http://personal.mail.yahoo.com/ ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 10 Apr 2001 14:59:00 -0400 From: Anne Sandstrom Subject: lay down our arms (njc) I wasn't going to comment on this, but... I think we've had some newer folks join lately who may have different (and possibly more hostile) experiences on other lists. To them and all us "oldies" who should know better - let's lay down our arms. Reading about what this person thought about what that person said is kind of boring. Oh, speaking of boring, I'm off to a meeting. Back later. lots of love Anne ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 10 Apr 2001 15:03:13 EDT From: Coyote4Joni@aol.com Subject: Re: What I'd really love to ask Joni. In a message dated 04/10/2001 11:12:15 AM Pacific Daylight Time, jgyn@muse.sfusd.k12.ca.us writes: Jan jokes: Would you consider your song, 'Chuck E.'s In Love', autobiographical? And if it is, is 'Chuck E.' black? Gay? Nice Miyake- did you get it new? Do you and Bjork ever share clothing? Rick writes: This absolutely cracks me up, Jan. I am laughing so hard here in Jackson, MS. The funniest one yet. More levity, PLEASE! Coyote Rick Casa Alegre Hollywood, California ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 10 Apr 2001 20:08:05 +0100 From: catman Subject: Re: What I'd really love to ask Joni.] > Once they're "done" ... listening to the finished > results isn't actually a very enjoyable experience, > since all I can hear are the little "mistakes", and > other "things I'd have done differently". It really > can be quite maddening. Although my design work is a different thing, I think I know just what you mean. When I have completed a grment I am usaully pleased with it but once I have done the next one, I become less satifsfied witht e previous piece and I can see all the mistakes or how I coulkd have done it differently or whatever. Others compliments are good to hear but I walways think to myself yes but..... I also do a fair amount of public speaking for which i seem to have a flair. I get vcomplimented on that too but I always think i could have done better. So I think I understand what it woul be like listening to your own music. > > > But, who knows -- Prince has claimed he pretty much > listens ONLY to his own stuff (and it shows, in my > opinion) ... so I could easily be all wet! > > Don Rowe > > ===== > Visit me anytime at http://www.mp3.com/donrowe > Get email at your own domain with Yahoo! Mail. > http://personal.mail.yahoo.com/ - -- bw colin colin@tantra.fsbusiness.co.uk http://www.geocities.com/tantra_apso/index.html ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 10 Apr 2001 12:11:22 -0700 (PDT) From: Alison E Subject: Re: april 10th!!!!!! njc! Happy birthday, Anne. i never thought peeling shrimp could be so much fun, but you definately helped that experience! it's good to know you, and it's good to have you here. and of course, happy birthday to your twin sister Marie, too. i hope you guys get to do something special. take care, alison e. in nyc > > WOULDN'T that mean that it is als > > ANNE'S SANDSTROM's birthday???????? > > > > THIS LIST LOVES YOU > > and your twin sister too. > > > > signed: > > the birthday-hungry birthday fairy. Get email at your own domain with Yahoo! Mail. http://personal.mail.yahoo.com/ ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 10 Apr 2001 15:27:16 EDT From: Coyote4Joni@aol.com Subject: Re: Joni Goes To Hollywood (NJC) In a message dated 04/10/2001 8:09:45 AM Pacific Daylight Time, steve@psitech.com writes: Steve continues Rick's education by writing: Consulting the all-knowing Dulson concert database, we find: Mitchell, Joni Hollywood Bowl Hollywood 6/15/79 It was part of the Playboy Jazz festival. Rick clarifies: Sorry, Steve, I meant to say "I think this will be her first time at my favorite (acoustically incorrect, for now anyway) venue since I have lived at Casa Alegre and was old enough to go to live concerts." Yeah, that's it. :-) Thanks for the new knowledge, which adds to the collection of Bowl stories I am working on for the gift shop (hopefully!). Coyote Rick (Friend of the Hollywood Bowl) Casa Alegre (which, Chris, is 1/2 mile north of the Bowl, off Cahuenga, in the historic Cahuenga Pass section of the Hollywood Hills. A small park commemorates the signing of the Treaty of Cahuenga which was negotiated in 1847 at Campo de Cahuenga (a replica of the original building still stands); the treaty signaled the end of hostilities in California in the Mexican-American War.) And who says Los Angeles has no history? Hollywood, California ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 10 Apr 2001 15:40:29 EDT From: SCJoniGuy@aol.com Subject: Re: Mo' Covers: Sweet #16... <> Good one, Jimmy!! You know, I couldn't put my finger on what that one sounded like, but you hit it right on the head! It definitely has that Love Boat sound all over it! Sadly, the Lydia CD is out of print. (But you wouldn't be the first person to ask me to burn you a copy of it.);~) It really is superb from start to finish! Thanks for the good words, you know I always love to hear you praise my lil' babies! :~) Bob NP: BRAND NEW Ani, "tamburitza lingua" (I just snuck out and bought it...shhhhh..) ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 10 Apr 2001 15:46:29 EDT From: SCJoniGuy@aol.com Subject: Re: Joni Goes To Hollywood <> And just to expand Coyote's education further, here was the ACTUAL setlist: 1. Introduction (Bill Cosby) 2. Coyote 3. A Chair In The Sky 4. Dreamland 5. Black Crow 6. Goodbye Pork Pie Hat 7. The Dry Cleaner From Des Moines jonimitchell.com has a poster advertising the show as well... Bob NP: Ani, "heartbreak even" ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 10 Apr 2001 15:48:40 EDT From: MDESTE1@aol.com Subject: Tomorrows response fear not. (md) To all concerned listers: Why should a person get away with attempting to censor free thoughts no different than many before it; personalizing insults over something they totally misunderstood at the same time. If it was you what would you do. Then they take a private post, selectively edit it to their own purposes, and make false accusations about "threats" that never happened. To not respond is to allow such defamatory stuff to go unanswered. My suggestion is that all those who want to ignore the entire matter to do so. Delete it. On the other hand you might want to read it. This is an opportunity to lessen these kinds of things but people have to know what happened. I have up until the most recent posts allowed much to be said and assumed without public response. This last thing claimed however i dont think should go unanswered. Those who know me I welcome your advice and input.Trust that I have no intention of making the issue bigger and hurling more personal counterstatements. I think it is time f! or clarity of the general issue. I would be more than happy to first send it to L es and let him vette it prior to me posting it. marcel deste ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 10 Apr 2001 13:03:13 -0700 From: Randy Remote Subject: misc. njc Miscellaneous replies to recent threads: 1. Re: Bjork, I think she is a true original, with an amazing, expressive voice, and she sings in tune, albeit with plenty of swoops, bends, and intentional dissonance. "Birthday" on the Sugarcubes' debut album is a good example. The version of "Birthday" that the Sugarcubes played on Saturday Night Live blows away the studio version, IMO. 2. Re: Fiona Apple. If you think she can't sing, listen to "Slow Like Honey" from her first album, or "I'll Know" from her second. The deep power this 98 pounder can muster is amazing. I've seen her live, and the girl can sing. 3. Re: Yoko Ono. I've seen her live, and the girl cannot sing. Which is hardly the point. She is an idea person. We would not have "Imagine" if not for her (taken from her earlier writings). She was not famous because she fucked John Lennon. Thousands of women did that and they are not famous. She was famous for marrying him! If she hadn't, she would be relatively unknown, like her other concepual art collegues. Which doesn't have anything to do with the merits of her art. 2 1/2. High on my list of women who can't sing: Patti Smith. 3. I am somewhat surprised to hear that Paul McCartney was dissing gays, since their manager, the guy that brought them to the world, Brian Epstein, was gay, and the Beatles obviously loved him. Homophobia is an outdated working class attitude (in the US as well) which he has hopefully re-examined. 4. This list will have to get alot worse before I leave. What was that line? 'tolerance, tolerance, tolerance'....to which I add, no censorship! RR ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 10 Apr 2001 16:17:37 EDT From: JRMCo1@aol.com Subject: Re: Blame it all on Smoe NJC Les said: <> Thanks, Les. Perfect choice. - -Julius Everything is Broken Broken lines, broken strings, Broken threads, broken springs, Broken idols, broken heads, People sleeping in broken beds. Ain't no use jiving Ain't no use joking Everything is broken. Broken bottles, broken plates, Broken switches, broken gates, Broken dishes, broken parts, Streets are filled with broken hearts. Broken words never meant to be spoken, Everything is broken. Bridge: Seem like every time you stop and turn around Something else just hit the ground Broken cutters, broken saws, Broken buckles, broken laws, Broken bodies, broken bones, Broken voices on broken phones. Take a deep breath, feel like you're chokin', Everything is broken. Bridge: Every time you leave and go off someplace Things fall to pieces in my face Broken hands on broken ploughs, Broken treaties, broken vows, Broken pipes, broken tools, People bending broken rules. Hound dog howling, bull frog croaking, Everything is broken. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 10 Apr 2001 13:35:18 -0700 From: jan gyn Subject: Re: What I'd really love to ask Joni. 'Sex Kills?' Howabout SECOND HAND SMOKE KILLS? Since Melissa Etheridge had a child, does that make you an aunt? I read in SPIN that you're Sheryl Crow's mother. Is that true? I bet you're wondering if that's a cigarette in my pocket... - -jan ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 10 Apr 2001 16:46:42 EDT From: Rusty10113@aol.com Subject: Re: What I'd really love to ask Joni. That's what I would love to know: Does Joni ever turn on Joni, a song like For Free, perhaps, and sing along with herself, in her kitchen, stirring up old memories? I know it's not her style, and she loathes going back, but for some reason, the picture of her doing that appeals to me, in some way.. any thoughts? ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 10 Apr 2001 16:58:32 -0400 From: dsk Subject: Re: In defense of Yoko NJC (long) philipf@tinet.ie wrote: > Debra wrote: > > >. Her efforts are in a > > completely different league than the Beatles. She's art; the Beatles are > > popular culture. The two can't be compared, and if they are, then the > > Beatles are the ones lacking in substance, enjoyable as their music is. > > Hi Debra, > > Your note was very interesting and I wanted to ask you about art vs popular > culture which you mentioned a few times. Are you saying that once a piece > of art becomes popular it ceases to be proper art or is somehow lacking in > substance ? I thought that kind of argument was over years ago. Artists > like Warhol, Lichtenstein, Blake etc embraced the frivolity of pop and rock > n' roll. Warhol wanted the banality of popular culture. Yoko is ok > but if you asked me to choose some pieces of "auditory conceptual art" > right now. I'd pick Heatwave by Martha and The Vandellas.... Hi Philip, My short answer is that art in the way that Yoko Ono is doing it rarely does become popular, not in its pure form anyway. It's too challenging for most people and popular culture is about pleasing as many people as possible and is usually not very challenging at all. It is, though, immensely more enjoyable (unless someone truly enjoys a mental challenge, and then it's deadly dull). Like you, I'd probably pick Heatwave too most of the time. It may have come across in my post as though I'm completely dissing popular culture, which I'm not. Hard to do that when I'm going through my much-loved cds trying to figure out what to listen to next and looking at a poster of the Dylan/JM concert on the wall. My statements were more about reacting to the unwillingness of some people to even consider anything beyond popular culture than about judging art to be better than popular culture. Both have their value and beauty and uses, but there are real differences between the two. I'm going to get specific here in an attempt to explain that (to myself also). Warning: Pedantry ahead! Get out now while you can :-) if that makes you itchy. Since you mention Warhol, I'll start there. Warhol was trained as a commercial artist at a time when there was a HUGE divide between the commerical arts, that existed only to sell a product, and the fine arts, that existed as pure expression and separate from any marketplace demands (which, of course, isn't and never was the reality, only the relatively new ideal). Usually the commercial artists took from the fine artists (e.g., look at any McDonalds and see some color field paintings 40 years after color field paintings were first "invented"). Warhol decided to be a fine artist and cleverly turned it all around and stole from commercial art to make fine art, extremely-pleasing-to-many-people fine art. And because he did that, the distinction between the two is now blurred, which is a good thing I think. So, that being said, I still think there's a huge difference between an artist such as Yoko making her statement regardless of the reaction it might get and artists aiming to sell as much of their product as they possibly can. Most artists are somewhere in the middle. It's very hard to compare painting with music, which we might never know about if huge numbers of people do NOT listen it. With the visual arts, only a relatively few people need to see it and be influenced by it, and in turn pass that influence on, and eventually examples of the "originals" turn up in museums, and examples of its influence turn up in popular culture. To try to explain further to anyone still awake, I'll compare two currently working visual artists (apologies to anyone who doesn't know Neiman's work; please let me know if you'd like info or samples of his paintings or something): - --Is Leroy Neiman an artist? Yep. - --Will his work ever be in the Metroplitan Museum? Probably not, unless it's in an exhibit about popular culture in the late 20th Century. - --Does he make pretty pictures? Yes, well-done, even beautiful pictures. - --Because of his work, do people see the world differently? No, not me anyway; they are just very pleasing pictures that sell very well. More power to him. - --Are other artists influenced by his work? No, artists would go to the same sources he's pulling from (e.g., Matisse, Impressionists) if they needed input about color and breaking up forms and movement. - --Is Yoko Ono an artist? Yep. - --Will her work ever be in the Met? I think some already is. - --Does she make pretty pictures? Probably not, unless it gets her point across. Much different than making pretty pictures so she'll sell a lot of them. - --Because of her work, do people see the world differently? The people paying attention would, and not just her work alone, but hers along with other Fluxus group members and conceptualists. - --Are other artists influenced by her work? Yes, art is different today because of what she and other conceptualists have done, and eventually that will show up in everyday life too. Actually it already has--the emphasis on words as strong visual elements, which has evolved into the jumbling of text you sometimes see in graphic design now, is an example in everyday life of the effect of the conceptualists' work. So, because of the stretching effect on everyone else that an artist like Yoko Ono has, and other avant gardists too, I say her work has more substance than the work of Neiman does. It's not more enjoyable because who really wants to be stretched if they can avoid it, but it's that push towards seeing things in a new way that gives the work substance. Now, where Joni and the Beatles fit into this supposedly very neat separation, I'm not sure. The Beatles pushed music along into something new and sold millions of records as they were doing it. Art + popular culture combined, which is rare. Joni, doing as she artistically must, has felt the negative effects of that purity. She was hooked in enough to popular culture so that at least she could get her work out to a mass audience, many of whom left her after Mingus (too arty). Hmm, I feel like I've overexplained, but also that I've not gotten my thoughts across at all. Art is one thing, popular culture is another, and once in a great while they overlap in someone's work. If they don't, that's no reason to completely dismiss anyone's efforts, and to make fun of art without trying to understand it shows fear more than anything else. To make fun of popular culture because it's not "deep enough" doesn't seem fair either; it can't be "deep" and still appeal to millions of people, thousands maybe but probably not millions. Both have value even though they're very different. nuff said, Debra Shea NP: Lucinda Williams, Metal Firecracker, live from the House of Blues; no problem at all enjoying this... ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 10 Apr 2001 22:34:35 +0100 (BST) From: pyramus@lineone.net Subject: Ode to Joni Ode to Joni by pyramus She is queen undisputedly of mind beauty A girl whose life was shaped by duty; Searching for her guiding star She tried to show us who we are By telling us about herself; The booby traps of pride and wealth, Of life and laughter, love and hate; Those things to which we all relate. With all the knowledge life acquaints She sings in swirling oils and paints Words woven fast with woe and wonder; Hypocrisy is blown asunder. Painting colours, Painting words, Showing how it's too absurd To take for granted all we know Before we take that trip below. The colours of her life have been A little blue with Little Green Miami red and Indigo The colours really ebb and flow. River of darkness, shadows and light, A Black Crow slowly taking flight. A palette of sparkling words reveals The way she really thinks and feels. A mind that never fails to thrill That sees the point of mans good will And sees the faults so clear and stark Can usually create a spark. Shes had to come in from the cold For the story that she has told Is hard for some to understand, But surely some revelation is at hand. To various members of the JMDL William Butler Yeats and of course Joni.... ...thanks for the inspirational words. pyramus ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 10 Apr 2001 18:12:56 -0400 From: Vince Lavieri Subject: Survivor Don Rowe wrote: > So come on folks ... think of it as Survivor. Debra Shea wrote: This will pass, soon we all hope, although unless it's played out fully it will just pop up soon in another form. So, delete delete delete whatever is bothersome and look forward to truly better times. Like Debra, I hope that all this fighting in the JMDL will pass. However, Don has tipped us off to what is really happening: we are voting each other off one by one until the day there will be one of us left in the JMDL. There are times to jump on things that are offensive to us and there are times to let it go. It is my firm belief that it we all need to stop having the last word. Right now, to quote Joni, "I can't even hear the fuckin' music playin' for the beat of..." the jumping on of each other in here. We can be right without having to say it. We can let things slide by. There has been so much hostility in here. Can't we just let some things slide for now? Can't we let things be? Too many folks are having enough of this place. Before we are all gone, can't we all stop being right and shelve our best salvoes and just be about Joni and about being friends before we drive everyone out of here? It will be cold consolation to be right and not to have the JMDL anymore. I want to hear the music again. I want to hear Joni. I want my friends to stop driving each other out of the JMDL. (the Rev) Vince ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 10 Apr 2001 15:07:00 -0700 From: "Kate Bennett" Subject: Re: What I'd really love to ask Joni. Larry wrote: Will you marry me again? Oh Larry. Was I the only person who thought that perm looked cute? Yes. Do you really think I'm on Prozac? No. Did you love Jackson, or James, or David, or Cary, or Graham, or the other David, or me the best? You of course, then Graham, then James. But, Larry, why did you choose me? What do I have to do to get you to treat me like one of your cats? Purr. "Man From Mars" is really about me, isn't it? Yes. How often do you put on Dog Eat Dog? Never. More or less than "Chalkmark In A Rainstorm? see above More or less than "Night Ride Home"? see above More or less than "Mingus"? see above If I bought you a piano, would you play it for me? Of course. Love, Joni (FOR ANY NEW SUBSCRIBERS, THIS WAS NOT REALLY WRITTEN BY LARRY & JONI) ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 10 Apr 2001 15:06:59 -0700 From: "Kate Bennett" Subject: hollywood bowl setlist Coyote4Joni@aol.com wrote: > OK, so let's all make something up. So, Joni is doing a star turn at the > Hollywood Bowl. I think this will be her first time at my favorite > (acoustically incorrect, for now anyway) venue. The first song from her > repertoire is, oh I don't know, let's say, Coyote. then Debra Shea... >>>and then she sits down at the piano and says "these are some things I'm working on" and plays through her works in progess, stumbling a little maybe, giggling, singing the lyrics she's figured out, redoing passages, pausing to think, and then going with what she has so far from beginning to end, one song at at time, with maybe a bass player adding to the sound, while we all hold our breath so we don't miss anything.<<< and me: Since its a fantasy concert, we would at first hear, not see that bass player, and marvel at how much he sounded like Jaco, then the spotlight would show that it WAS Jaco, who as it turns out, has been just chilling out for awhile, & cleaning up, away from the music biz & all its pressures... ******************************************** Kate Bennett www.katebennett.com sponsored by Polysonics www.polysonics.com Discover the Indies at Taylor Guitars: http://www.taylorguitars.com/artists/awp/indies/bennett.html ******************************************** ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 10 Apr 2001 15:37:40 -0700 (PDT) From: "Lori R. Fye" Subject: Sue Terry on sax (NJC) I don't recall if we've ever discussed saxophonist Sue Terry on the list before ... Mary and I had a DELIGHTFUL! time last night at the Kennedy Center, where we had 3rd row seats in the Theatre Workshop for an NPR taping of Billy Taylor's Jazz. Sue was the featured artist, and CAN SHE PLAY!!! (Images of a black man trapped inside the body of a white woman ...) Sue primarily plays alto sax, although she did perform a nice number (nice enough to make Mary cry) on the soprano sax. (She also plays clarinet, but didn't last night.) Between songs, Billy interviewed Sue for a show that will air soon on NPR. The format included questions from the audience, some of which were pretty funny. When the program ended, Mary said, "I don't know when I've enjoyed a show more!" Sue stayed to autographs CDs, of which we bought two. Listened to one on the way home: EXCELLENT! More info here: http://home.earthlink.net/~pandamusic/ (as well as other links). If you have a chance, check out Sue Terry! Lori, new Sue Terry fan, in DC ~ Get email at your own domain with Yahoo! Mail. http://personal.mail.yahoo.com/ ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 10 Apr 2001 17:57:53 -0700 From: "Mark or Travis" Subject: Re: NJC Re: bjork/sexism NJC (md) > There is NO honor in getting the last word in on a hateful thread like this one. Amen, Brother Bob! Thank you for saying that. Mark in Seattle ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 10 Apr 2001 21:08:34 -0400 From: "janine sherman" Subject: Lighten up My dear Joniphiles, Far be it from me to irritate, agitate, congratulate, or cajole -but why are so many people leaving (or threatening to leave) this list? Are some just defectors from the petty wars or are we folks who need drama and finger pointing for excitement? Are we looking for complacent agreement or stimulating diversity? I get a kick out of hearing all the different opinions (and a few laughs) and have yet to grasp the source of all the bad feelings. Am I missing something here? Not as invested as some? I don't get it. Every single person that I have ever been in touch with in the chat room or privately has been incredibly generous and kind. I have been able to transcend decades of Joni history and music in a matter of months. Plus, I have been introduced to a half dozen or more other artists I would not have known existed. I guess it all boils down to what are we looking for in this list? Personally, I have found infinitely more than I ever dreamt of finding when I typed those letters in the search space. Let's lighten' up!!!! "My friends were calling up all day yesterday all emotions and abstractions It seems we all live so close to that line and so far from satisfaction." Thanks for everything - the good, bad, and the ugly. Janine P.S. I have to say that my family thinks I am close to joining the church of Joni, so that thread hit home. It made me think, but mostly laugh. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 10 Apr 2001 21:14:35 -0400 From: "Victor Johnson" Subject: Re: hollywood bowl setlist > and me: Since its a fantasy concert, we would at first hear, not see that > bass player, and marvel at how much he sounded like Jaco, then the spotlight > would show that it WAS Jaco, who as it turns out, has been just chilling out > for awhile, & cleaning up, away from the music biz & all its pressures... along with John Coltrane on saxophone, Jerry Garcia on guitar, Erroll Garner on keyboards, Buddy Rich on drums, and featuring Zamfir the magic pan flute artist...who makes it all possible. Hurry up and buy your tickets now! Tomorrow night at the Hollywood Bowl...at midnight! Victor Johnson http://www.cdbaby.com/victorjohnson "Just beyond the morning falls the river of your dreams, Escaping from the day these wild creatures run away." Victor Johnson ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 10 Apr 2001 22:50:44 -0300 From: "Wally Kairuz" Subject: explain my song to me NJC reading the lyrics of a song that i wrote 25 years ago, i realized that i didn't understand what the song was about anymore. does this situation make any sense to you folks? i have pasted the words below. what do you think these lyrics mean? am i in denial or something? wallyK, perplexed THESE ALLEYS OF DESIRE Maybe all the precious milk My mother failed to turn into Will make me brood over the nature of thirst For ever Maybe the feathers And the tar The scabby walls in these bars Have proved to be too much Too close Too many In the bitter end So what makes one man desired And another one so tired Of desires and designs On the part of less desired lesser men That glide along these lesser streets That dwell beneath these secret pleats These alleys of desire Maybe all the precious milk My mother failed to turn into Will make me brood over the nature of thirst for ever Is it better Is it worse It all depends On what it is you're pursuing To try and cling on to To drift afloat Out of this mess To little oh too little Oh too little oh too little In the bitter end 1976, C.A.W. Kairuz ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 10 Apr 2001 22:14:55 EDT From: SCJoniGuy@aol.com Subject: Re: explain my song to me NJC As much as I love dissecting lyrics, Wally, I'm gonna defer to Dr. Sigmondegreen - THIS one needs a pro! :~) Bob NP: Kathie Lee Gifford, "The Circle Game" ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 10 Apr 2001 23:23:47 -0300 From: "Wally Kairuz" Subject: RE: explain my song to me NJC doesn't it though!!!!!! WK - -----Mensaje original----- De: owner-joni@jmdl.com [mailto:owner-joni@jmdl.com]En nombre de SCJoniGuy@aol.com Enviado el: Martes, 10 de Abril de 2001 11:15 p.m. Para: wallykai@fibertel.com.ar; joni@smoe.org Asunto: Re: explain my song to me NJC As much as I love dissecting lyrics, Wally, I'm gonna defer to Dr. Sigmondegreen - THIS one needs a pro! :~) Bob NP: Kathie Lee Gifford, "The Circle Game" ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 10 Apr 2001 22:26:51 -0400 (EDT) From: Catherine McKay Subject: Re: april 10th!!!!!! njc! - --- Wally Kairuz wrote: > dear MARIE [twin sister of one anne sandstrom's], > > you don't know me but i know you. your little sister > anne has requested that > i, in my role of most excellent and > MIGHTY > birthday fairy, greet you on your birthday\ hApPy BiRtHdAy, MaRiE... aNd ThE oThEr OnE tOo! HaPpY bIrThDaY, hApPy BiRtHdAy, HaPpY bIrThDaY tO yOo! Get your free @yahoo.ca address at http://mail.yahoo.ca ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 10 Apr 2001 23:16:29 EDT From: Coyote4Joni@aol.com Subject: Re: What I'd really love to ask Joni. In a message dated 04/10/2001 3:42:00 PM Pacific Daylight Time, kate@katebennett.com writes: << Was I the only person who thought that perm looked cute? Yes. >> Dear Joni and Larry: I really liked the perm era and have a framed photo in my hallway as proof. You rock, Joni, with or without hair chemicals. And, Larry, DED is my favorite. See you both at my after Bowl party. Love, Coyote Rick xoxo ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 10 Apr 2001 23:08:51 -0400 From: "Christopher J. Treacy" Subject: This List/Napigator Question NJC It is both humerous and aggravating to me that I tried to say that I believed the list to have 'run amok' way back during the election, and it didn't stir much of a response. Now all this - oy vaysmir. In addition, nobody responded to my last question, so I'll try again, louder this time. does anyone know how to properly use the napigator file share application? I'm having a little trouble! Now, if you'll excuse me, it's time for "All in the family" - -Chris ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 10 Apr 2001 23:30:00 EDT From: Coyote4Joni@aol.com Subject: Re: hollywood bowl setlist In a message dated 04/10/2001 6:25:21 PM Pacific Daylight Time, waytoblu@mindspring.com writes: Victor imagines: ...along with John Coltrane on saxophone, Jerry Garcia on guitar, Erroll Garner on keyboards, Buddy Rich on drums, and featuring Zamfir the magic pan flute artist...who makes it all possible. Hurry up and buy your tickets now! Tomorrow night at the Hollywood Bowl...at midnight! ... Coyote Rick adds: Victor, you forgot Janis, who will be on hand to solo Raised on Robbery. By the way, checks for tickets ($30, first ten rows, center) can be mailed or pay-palled to Ashara - in the names of Jim or Les. Don't miss this memorable concert. There is a Pre-Sunrise Santa Maria Barbecue at my house following (with Joni on vocals -- she needs a back up band -- email me privately for details). Naturally, for JMDLers this post event is included in the ticket price. See you tomorrow!! Coyote Rick (just a postin' fool!) Casa Alegre Hollywood, California ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 10 Apr 2001 20:18:39 -0700 From: "Kate Bennett" Subject: RE: hollywood bowl setlist Coyote Rick adds: Victor, you forgot Janis, who will be on hand to solo Raised on Robbery. Me: and also jimi will be there to play his lovely song little wing & tell us that yes he did indeed write it about joni & so she will sing harmony with him on the choruses ******************************************** Kate Bennett www.katebennett.com sponsored by Polysonics www.polysonics.com Discover the Indies at Taylor Guitars: http://www.taylorguitars.com/artists/awp/indies/bennett.html ******************************************** ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 11 Apr 2001 00:01:17 -0400 From: "Victor Johnson" Subject: Re: hollywood bowl setlist(njc) > Me: and also jimi will be there to play his lovely song little wing & tell > us that yes he did indeed write it about joni & so she will sing harmony > with him on the choruses > When I was up in the mountains this weekend at the wedding, Bootlegg Shaman played the most awesome version of "Little Wing" I've ever heard them do. They are just some of the most talented musicians I have ever heard play...Michael, Kelly, and Chris. Chris' solo especially was out of this world. The sound just wafting through the trees, out over the lake, the evening sun just beginning to set. And it is oh such a beautiful song. My favorite along with Angel. Victor Victor Johnson http://www.cdbaby.com/victorjohnson "Just beyond the morning falls the river of your dreams, Escaping from the day these wild creatures run away." Victor Johnson ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 10 Apr 2001 22:11:37 -0600 From: evian Subject: Hell (as in Helen, not the place you go to if you dance or play cards) njc April 10, 2001 -- cigarettes 107 (v.g.), aspartame 847 mgs (weening myself off), mean thoughts 4 (vg), number of times I have picked at that zit looking thing on my forehead 14 (needs improvement), however all in all, pretty good since I am in denial that I won't see Hell's posts for a while.... Hell darling, don't be gone TOO long -- the Bridget movie is opening, Stevie's album is coming out, I'm becoming a Dad, and I am in total danger of going into shock from eating these damned Easter candies, all within a month. What shall I do without you? Oh God, pass the Silk Cut and the Milk Tray...... (those of you who aren't Helen Fielding freaks, just ignore this post!) Evian np: Brad Paisley -- "She Said Yes" --- Oh God Helen, I am buying and listening to country music willingly.... for the love of God, don't leave, I need someone to stick up for me ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 10 Apr 2001 22:15:59 -0600 From: evian Subject: What I'd really love to ask Joni You know, the only thing I thought to ask Joni during my 60 seconds with her was (get this, how odd it is...) if it was Johnny Angel or Charlie Angel... LOL, and then I chickened out and didn't even bother! So, for sure, that's what I'd ask her if I ever saw her again. However, over a couple of drinks, I'd get her to dish the dirt on everyone and everything. Evian ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 11 Apr 2001 00:21:25 EDT From: TerryM2222@aol.com Subject: Re: Sue Terry on sax (NJC) Holy cow, I thought someone was siccing their attorney on me for playing the sax! Whew, Terry www.addconsults.com ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 10 Apr 2001 22:28:11 -0600 From: evian Subject: All this talk about Bjorkiness now njc Hey, I just thought of something, fellow Bjork and Yokoites -- wouldn't Bjork do a kick ass job at a remake of "Walking on Thin Ice"????? As well, she'd do great remaking that song... shit, I can't of the name and don't want to dig out the cd since they are in a hideous state of disarray -- I think it's called "The Kite Song". Damn, I'd love it! Anyhooooo, for those that want to give Bjork a chance, I'd check out the Sugarcubes first, and then move chronologically. Evian ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 11 Apr 2001 00:46:05 -0400 From: "Jim L'Hommedieu" Subject: En boca cerrada no entran moscas. NJC "No snake can enter a closed mouth." Lama ps. Thanks to the Birthday Fairie Wally Kairuz for tweaking the Spanish syntax! ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 10 Apr 2001 21:55:01 -0700 From: "Kakki" Subject: Re: Mo' Covers: Sweet #16... After dragging myself home from yet another late night at work, I also found the Sweet 16 from Bobaroo in my mailbox and am playing through it now. It's very nice and soothing (and that's a good thing for me right now ;-) Thanks to Bob and the contributors! > Jimmy (who has to find some non-pleated pants so I won't be laughed at in > L.A.) Oh now Jimmy, you are always stylin', and can show us a few things - don't change a thing! Can't wait to peel an olive with you ;-) Kakki NP: O.C. Smith - Just Couldn't Help Myself (Bob, please explain!) ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 10 Apr 2001 22:14:04 -0700 From: "Kakki" Subject: Re: april 10th!!!!!! njc! I didn't know Anne was a twin, either! Happy birthday to both of you! Kakki ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 10 Apr 2001 23:34:46 -0700 From: "Kakki" Subject: Re: hollywood bowl setlist Chris, this is a perfect idea! The original Cat and Fiddle was a magical place up in either Laurel Canyon or Beverly Glen (I forget, but think it was BG). I may be wrong but I think they had to move out because of residents' complaints of noise (from music and partiers) and then it became some an exclusive restaurant (maybe the Four Oaks?). I remember reading somewhere years ago that it was a Joni hangout in the old days. I like the one in Hollywood, too. Kakki > and even though coyote rick and all do not want to > leave, we must because we jmdlers are invited to a > private party at the 'cat and fiddle' tavern. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 11 Apr 2001 03:40:20 -0300 From: "Wally Kairuz" Subject: RE: Hell (as in Helen, not the place you go to if you dance or play cards) njc oh yes yes yes!!!! we all need more helen fielding in our lives now that hell is going/gone!!!! heeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeell!!!!! we miss yooooooooooooooouuuuuuuuuuuuu!!!!!! don't be cruel! wallyK, bridget's and hell's #1 fan - -----Mensaje original----- De: owner-joni@jmdl.com [mailto:owner-joni@jmdl.com]En nombre de evian Enviado el: Miircoles, 11 de Abril de 2001 01:12 a.m. Para: hell@ihug.co.nz; joni@smoe.org Asunto: Hell (as in Helen, not the place you go to if you dance or play cards) njc April 10, 2001 -- cigarettes 107 (v.g.), aspartame 847 mgs (weening myself off), mean thoughts 4 (vg), number of times I have picked at that zit looking thing on my forehead 14 (needs improvement), however all in all, pretty good since I am in denial that I won't see Hell's posts for a while.... Hell darling, don't be gone TOO long -- ------------------------------ End of JMDL Digest V2001 #171 ***************************** ------- Post messages to the list by clicking here: mailto:joni@smoe.org Unsubscribe by clicking here: mailto:joni-digest-request@smoe.org?body=unsubscribe ------- Siquomb, isn't she?