From: les@jmdl.com (JMDL Digest) To: joni-digest@smoe.org Subject: JMDL Digest V2001 #168 Reply-To: joni@smoe.org Sender: les@jmdl.com Errors-To: les@jmdl.com Precedence: bulk Unsubscribe: mailto:joni-digest-request@smoe.org?body=unsubscribe Archives: http://www.smoe.org/lists/joni Websites: http://www.jmdl.com http://www.jonimitchell.com JMDL Digest Monday, April 9 2001 Volume 2001 : Number 168 The 'Official' Joni Mitchell Homepage, created by Wally Breese, can be found at http://www.jonimitchell.com. It contains the latest news, a detailed bio, Original Interviews, essays, lyrics and much much more. The JMDL website can be found at http://www.jmdl.com and contains interviews, articles, the member gallery, archives, and much more. Information on the 4th "Annual" New England JoniFest: http://www.jmdl.com/jfne2001.cfm The Joni Chat Room: http://www.jmdl.com/chat.cfm ========== TOPICS and authors in this Digest: -------- NJC The Handlebar Re-opens! ["Paul Castle" ] Shawn Phillips ["Paul Castle" ] Re: This list [mags ] Sib in London (NJC) ["Paul Castle" ] Napigator Question NJC ["Christopher J. Treacy" ] RE: Shawn Phillips ["Deb Messling" ] Re: what would you ask Joni? ["Sue Cameron" ] more on shawn phillips ["Deb Messling" ] Joni Mitchell - Jazz Singer ["Deb Messling" ] Re: bjork NJC ["Harp@louislynch.com" ] bjork NJC [Emily Kirk Gray ] MIA? 9njc) [asandstrom@macromedia.com] Re: NJC The Handlebar Re-opens! [SCJoniGuy@aol.com] Joni Hall of Fame Article [Sheila Mulhern ] Re: bjork NJC ["louis.lynch" ] Re: bjork NJC [Emily Kirk Gray ] Re: Joni Hall of Fame Article [SCJoniGuy@aol.com] Re: "wearing weeds" [christopher blake ] Re: bjork NJC [Catherine McKay ] Re: it made me sick! NJC [Catherine McKay ] Everybody sorry - njc [Catherine McKay ] Re: it made me sick! NJC [Don Rowe ] Re: This list NJC [Coyote4Joni@aol.com] Re: bjork NJC [Coyote4Joni@aol.com] Re: bjork NJC [Catherine McKay ] our differeing tastes [Tyler Hewitt ] NJC -- Sly -- I stand corrected ["louis.lynch" ] Re: our differeing tastes NJC ["louis.lynch" ] Re: Survivor No More [Rusty10113@aol.com] Re: our differeing tastes [IVPAUL42@aol.com] NJC [catman ] Mo' Covers: Sweet #16... [SCJoniGuy@aol.com] Bjorko Ono [Tyler Hewitt ] Re: Mo' Covers: Sweet #16... [SCJoniGuy@aol.com] Re: Everyday People NJC [Coyote4Joni@aol.com] Re: Everyday People NJC [SCJoniGuy@aol.com] Kashmir Klub NJC ["Rob Ettridge" ] Re: Everyday People NJC [RoseMJoy@aol.com] Re: Everyday People NJC [FMYFL@aol.com] Word Quiz NJC ["Rob Ettridge" ] ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Mon, 9 Apr 2001 10:09:10 +0100 From: "Paul Castle" Subject: NJC The Handlebar Re-opens! Bob SCJoniGuy@aol.com wrote: >to kick it off in May they're going to have Richie Havens >and Richard Thompson!! Awesome! and Debra dsk11@bellatlantic.net wrote: >please do report on your RT experience And please, also, your Richie Havens experience, Bob. I saw him again recently in London and he was better than ever - his versions of The Beatles' 'Here Comes the Sun' and Dylan's 'Just Like a Woman' never fail to get my eyes 'watery and wet' and seeing him play 'Freedom' up close, like it was the first time he'd ever played it - the packed Jazz Cafe crowd went completely bonkers! He also gave me a wonderful big hug afterwards - see http://folkmusic.about.com/library/weekly/bl_pond14_1100a.htm and scroll down to the bottom. and Bob wrote: >Oh, and Ashara, Cheryl Wheeler is coming to this same small club, >so maybe if you need to head down south for any reason... And I'd love to hear a report of this one, too. I saw her for the first time at The Kate Wolf festival last year and she is a brilliant live performer - funny one moment - poignant the next - and her song 'If it were up to me' is an absolute classic, IMO. In Vancouver I stayed at the Sylvia Hotel - a wonderful old place with spectacular views over English Bay. Apparently Bruce Cockburn also wrote some of his song, 'Wondering Where the Lions Are' whilst staying there. I went looking for the French-speaking cat in the bar that Cheryl mentions in her Sylvia Hotel song but, sadly, couldn't find it. PaulC (off to the seaside!) ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 9 Apr 2001 10:28:00 +0100 From: "Paul Castle" Subject: Shawn Phillips Came across this yesterday - Shawn Phillips http://www.flash.net/~nona1/pastcons.html (scroll down) >...During the next six years, Phillips showed Joni Mitchell how > to play the guitar, co-wrote Donovan's Sunshine Superman > album, roomed with Tim Hardin, starred in a movie called, > Run With The Wind and became the original lead singer for > the Broadway musical, Jesus Christ Superstar. This is news to me - can anyone shed any light on this ? PaulC (back on Friday) ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 09 Apr 2001 05:42:30 -0500 From: mags Subject: Re: This list note: yes this is long, yes this is deliberately sent to the whole list. And yes this is going to be one of Mags' heartfelt posts , so if anyone wants out now, you should hit that delete button now . and yes i broke the etiquette of printing this above Hells post..sorry about that Hell. ... easier in this moment to just write. Your post certainly has propelled me out of a sense of not knowing what to say . You have inspired me to jump out of my silence and share some of my thoughts. Hell, I have also grown to love this list. I have been blessed with the love and friendship shared with very special people around the world. It was here that my Brian found me. It was here that I have made many, many connections with friends who I love dearly, who have become my brothers and sisters, who have taught me to lean, to trust, to love. In the face of your news Hell, I feel compelled to share some of what I felt when I joined this community a year ago. I was going through some very difficult, trying times personally. On the edge of major changes in my life, I needed to find "me" again. Part of the "finding me" standing up to the dragon and saying enough. I wouldnt be controlled or hurt anymore. I needed my life back. So there I was in my kitchen on a glorious spring morning last April, sitting, staring at the screen. I took a deep breath, and typed in two words "Joni Mitchell". I decided to reconnect to the woman whose music has been much of a life line to me through the loss of my son to many other challenges. Understatement, it was a big deal for me to come back to Joni, back to the garden. I walked into a "room" filled with people who knew each other well. People from all over the world, from so many different spaces and places in their lives joined together to joke, tease, laugh together, touch hearts, touch souls. Within the first week of my being here, I saw Clark create that wonderful April Fools joke which got us all going. I heard from Jimmy and Bob and Ashara and many many others greeting with me a warmth that I was and continue to be touched by. As you know, Joni didnt come to Canada on her tour last year, so I watched from the wings. Didnt even get to see the tribute here, so I lived it through all of you. I took in each and every post like it was some long drink of water after my days in the desert. It was wonderful to read, in great detail, the experiences so generously shared. And then my "Joni" collection started...a BSN programme, tapes and tapes and more tapes! and Cds and tapes and videos and laughter and tapes and community and.... more tapes. There were dream stories, BSN stories, Mendel stories, love stories and every other kind of Joni story you could ever imagine. Stories shared here got us all going with the possibility Joni....of meeting Joni herself, of seeing Joni herself, of sharing cigarette space with Joni herself. It did not take long at all for me to feel that I was no longer an outsider. I felt very much at home. I have seen us share survival stories together, some openly, some behind the scenes. I have seen us support one another. The courage of Anne Sandstrom comes to mind immediately. God, remember how we all responded to Asharas private post to come together as friends and family? Ashara asked us to gather up CDs, tshirts, hats, cards, Joni mementoes..anything to help Anne get through those terrible, trying days of her chemo. And Ashara. Our Ashara our angel and earth mama who is very much one of the tent pegs that keeps us standing strong. And then there are the countless ones who do so much for us on the sidelines. You know who you are. Appreciation goes out to you beyond words. So many of us do our bit to keep the wheels turning, all for the love of Joni, and each other. I have seen and felt and heard us grieve together in the face of losing those close to us as a community. I came on the scene here just after Wally died and I read about how his loss was deeply felt. I know first hand how hard it was on all of us to learn the shocking, terrible news about Kenny last fall, only short weeks after we held him in our arms. We shared hugs, songs, laughter and late, late hours with him at Ashara's . Remember? Kenny knew each and ever single word of Joni's songs. Every one. And oh how he loved us all. Brian and I received and continue to receive support and concern and caring for what he went through this year as he faced a triple bypass which literally saved his life. You, this wonderful Joni community, family, friends were and continue to be an integral part of his healing, whether you know this or not. Only weeks later did Jack, one of our resident artists undergo the same thing, so there was another opportunity to reach out and give support and receive the gift of his friendship. I even have a separate folders filled with stories shared with Brian, Joni stories, Anne Sandstrom stories, "bypass Jack stories" , Kenny Grant stories, all of which I read from time to time to remind me how very precious this life is. I want to savour it all. We support each other because we care. It is what we do. Ive seen this over and over again here. We get excited about a gathering that is six months away because the spirit of the last one still resounds loud and clear in our hearts. I remember the butterflies-in-our-stomachs squealing excitement of seeing who was on the other side of Ashara's door...the anticipation is incredible! We support, we care, we love, we reach out, we agree, we disagree, we digress. We allow people to come close to us for perhaps the first time ever. We let each other in on our private lives. I have been inspired by how much this community cares. This place has changed lives and given a sense of hope to those in need. I have seen that time and time again. Endless stories of compassion and concern. You know what I am talking about. The love and caring of this community is very real. I even felt safe enough to share stories of my own Little Green . Hell, you have given so much to our Joni community with your humour, insight, intelligence. You have generously shared Kiwi music. You sent a couple of tapes which I know took a lot of time, effort and energy to put together, at no cost to me, and you asked for nothing in return. You give out of the generosity of your heart with a desire to share the music of your community and your life. I was so touched as I read pages and pages that you had written on each and every artist on the tape. You gave such wonderful insight to musicians I never would have heard of otherwise. I appreciate so much the fact that you so enthusiastically took the time to go into indepth explanation/description, relaying just why you felt this way or that about an artist. I want you to know that you will be missed. You and your wonderful humour and all of your contributions vis a vis music, your stories about anything and everything. I just wanted to say how very sad I am that you have decided to unsub. I am sorry it has come to this. I really am. I have taken the liberty to make this very much JC because I feel it affects all of us, the whole list. Mags. hell wrote: > I joined this list for two reasons. > > 1. To find and share information about Joni Mitchell, my favourite > singer/songwriter/artist/poet. > 2. To make the acquaintance of people around the world. > > Since I've joined, I've achieved both those goals, and since the split into > NJC and Joni-Only, I've discovered lots of great new music (eg. Jonatha > Brooke), books, authors, actors, movies, etc., and I've had some wonderful > (and intelligent) discussions on some incredibly varied subjects. I've > loved this list and believe I've made some real friends here. It always > seemed a place where opinions were valued, not denigrated. > > But recently every second post seems to be someone attacking someone else's > opinion - and Marcel's post on Bjork, whether you liked it or not, was still > just his opinion, expressed as he felt was his right - then it's someone > else defending the original post, then someone else defending the opposer, > etc., etc., etc. I'm sick and tired of wading through my daily mail, for > the 10-20% of posts that are actually constructive. I've used my delete key > more than the scroll key lately, which annoys me considerably. > > Seems like we've lost track of what we're about, and I don't think we can > any longer claim to be "the nicest, friendliest discussion list on the > 'net." > > This being the case, I'm unsubbing for a while, until people can accept that > not every opinion will be the same as theirs, and that yes, sometimes people > may write something that someone else finds offensive. The answer (and I've > said it before recently, but maybe it was missed in the deluge of "I don't > like what you said" posts) is the delete key. For God's sake, if you were > in a room of 600 people, would you agree with and/or even like every person? > I don't think so, so why should you expect it here!? > > I'll be back but it might be a while. Maybe when I return, people will have > worked out how to be civil to each other again, and be a little more > accepting of the fact that we're all very different, and only united by one > thing. Joni. > > Helen > ____________________________ > "To have great poets, there must be > great audiences too." - Walt Whitman > > hell@ihug.co.nz > Visit the NBLs (Natural Born Losers) at: > http://www.nbls.co.nz - -- --------------------------------------------------------------------- _~O / /\_, ___/\ /_ - ----------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 9 Apr 2001 10:48:54 +0100 From: "Paul Castle" Subject: Sib in London (NJC) Azeem, and other UK Sib fans - this just came in on her Museletter - >SIBERRY TO PERFORM IN LONDON JUNE 12 >One song during the 'Ghostland' concert at the Union Chapel, Islington. >And opening set. >Watch website (www.sheeba.com) for link to their website to find >out more about this wonderful group. PaulC ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 9 Apr 2001 06:44:23 -0400 From: "Christopher J. Treacy" Subject: Napigator Question NJC Hello there, Anyone out there familiar with Napigator? For those who are not, Napigator is an application you can download to expand your access to file-sharing communities, and can be installed directly into your Napster layout. I am not sure, however, if I'm using it correctly. It would appear, after some trial and error, that it does not expand my access much at all, even with as many as 3 times the number of users on the same server. I'm finding that I have more MP3 access when I stick to my usual server through plain Napster. Would anyone out there who uses this application be willing to explain a little more to me about how it works? I feel like I'm missing some inherent detail that will make everything else click into place! - -Chris NP: Deb Talan "Wild Horse" on WERS CoffeeHouse ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 9 Apr 2001 07:05:24 -0400 From: "Deb Messling" Subject: RE: Shawn Phillips In the Borders Crossing article, soon to be posted on the JMDL web site, Joni doesn't say SP taught her guitar, but says he's the first person she ever met who had written a song, and she found that "intriguing and exotic." This was the first I ever heard of it. A search on Shawn Phillips on the JMDL article site yielded nothing. > >...During the next six years, Phillips showed Joni Mitchell how > > to play the guitar, > This is news to me - can anyone shed any light on this ? - ----------------------------------- Deb Messling "I like cats. They give the home a heartbeat." ~Joni Mitchell - ----------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 09 Apr 2001 07:39:06 -0400 From: "Sue Cameron" Subject: Re: what would you ask Joni? This is funny. Those of us who have met her and ended up stumbling for words (or yelling out silly things that they later regreted) wish we had a second chance. My question to Joni would be "What makes you laugh?" This would be interesting to me as she seems to have a good sense of humor but what exactly is it that sets her off? Good Monday morning to all! Back to school for me after Break :-( Sue Cameron NP: Pearl Jam - Jeremy ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 9 Apr 2001 07:44:19 -0400 From: "Deb Messling" Subject: more on shawn phillips On a Shawn Phillips fan site, I saw this: Shawn gave Joni Mitchell some early guitar lessons, when she was a waitress, at the Louis Riel Coffee House, in Saskatoon, Saskatchewan. She was already fairly comfortable with the instrument, but wanted to learn more about Shawn's 12 string technique, and playing in general. Shawn was booked there for almost a whole week, so they did have time to get to know each other. - ----------------------------------- Deb Messling "I like cats. They give the home a heartbeat." ~Joni Mitchell - ----------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 9 Apr 2001 08:04:09 -0400 From: "Deb Messling" Subject: Joni Mitchell - Jazz Singer Somebody's selling a Japanese promo LP called "Joni Mitchell - Jazz Singer" that includes the following songs: Twisted, Coyote, Black Crow, Blue Motel Room, Talk to Me, Harrys House, Centerpiece, Dreamland, Jericho, Good Bye Pork Pie Hat. Interesting that Joni was packaged like that. I don't know the date. - ----------------------------------- Deb Messling "I like cats. They give the home a heartbeat." ~Joni Mitchell - ----------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 9 Apr 2001 08:50:15 -0400 From: "Harp@louislynch.com" Subject: Re: bjork NJC Jan wrote: > What was so ugly about it? I thought it was apropos! Talk about calling > the kettle black... I think when somebody calls someone else "pathetic," it is an ugly thing to say. Perhaps you have a different definition of "ugly." However, I've done a lot of research on emotional and physical abuse, and Emily's comments were textbook examples of verbal abuse. Her goal in writing was not to say she didn't like that kind of humor -- or she could have said that. She didn't even argue Marcel's point about Bjork -- she went straight to name calling and saying things to hurt his self-esteem. I resented Emily's outright personal attack on Marcel. I enjoy reading this list for its information, insight, and occasional foray into the absurd. I can tolerate the jokes or threads, even if I don't like them (such as the church of Joni). But, as a contributor, I defend my right to observe when people abuse other people -- which is why I spoke up so pointedly against Emily. She was out of line, in my opinion. She could have told him she didn't like his jokes without calling him pathetic. Recently, someone said something very offensive to a popular list member, and people rallied to her defense. I did the same because I value Marcel's writing, so I'll gladly accept that my kettle appears black to you. As far as people leaving the list because they occasionally read something they don't like, if everyone did that, the list would be down to zero quickly. When I post, I try to announce my subject matter upfront, so people can delete or skip the post if they don't want to waste their time reading something that is more personal opinion than Joni-related. Harper Lou ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 09 Apr 2001 09:02:24 -0400 From: Emily Kirk Gray Subject: bjork NJC hi harper lou: could i make a point of clarification? you wrote, "3) "Just plain pathetic." Describing someone as just plain pathetic is..." well, whether or not i agree with the rest of that sentence i would like to remind you that what i wrote was that i couldn't find a way TO DESCRIBE TO certain kinds of people why making offensive sexist jokes is...pathetic. which i will stand by. speaking of standing by, i have to add that i am sorry if my post is unintentionally turning people away from the list (i am thinking of hell, whose spirited posts i have always enjoyed). did i want to get into some kind of nasty fray? definitely not. have i also been tired of the fighting on this list? sure. in fact, as far as i know, i've tried to stay out of most arguments. but i can not, and won't, keep quiet when i read something sexist and hurtful and offensive. it sure feels lonely right now, but i'd do it again. i guess that's how i was raised... - --emily ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 9 Apr 2001 09:07:12 -0400 From: asandstrom@macromedia.com Subject: MIA? 9njc) "Still I sent up my email wondering where it had to go..." I hope this gets through. None of my posts have gotten through for a while. They did change my email at work, but the old one was supposed to be recognized for another 30 days. So much for aliases. Happy birthday to everyone whose birthday I missed. A very belated welcome to Kobus. Your post was amazing. I had a whole bunch of other things to say, but the threads have all kind of disappeared. Oh well. FWIW, I really like the new Shawn Colvin. It takes about 3 or 4 listens to get into it. She's supposed to be on Rosie O'Donnell tomorrow. It's supposed to feel like spring today here! lots of love Anne ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 09 Apr 2001 09:09:54 EDT From: SCJoniGuy@aol.com Subject: Re: NJC The Handlebar Re-opens! <> Will do, Paul...after all, you know I'm just a frustrated rock critic anyway! ;~) Bob NP: Joe Jackson, "Vera" ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 09 Apr 2001 09:26:47 -0400 From: Sheila Mulhern Subject: Joni Hall of Fame Article I am looking for the full the full length New York Times article by Stephen Holden bashing the Rock n' Roll Hall of Fame entitled "Too Feminine for Rock? Or is Rock Too Macho?" in support of Mitchell being inducted into the Hall in '97. Anyone have a copy? Merci, Sheila ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 9 Apr 2001 09:28:24 -0400 From: "louis.lynch" Subject: Re: bjork NJC Thank you Emily, Your response to my response was very classy. I guess what it boils down to is: sexist humor is offensive, and putting other people down is offensive. Marcel offended you, you offended me, I probably offended everyone else... "There is a blue one can't accept the the green one for living with the fat one who's trying to be a skinny one, and so on and so on ..." (That's old Stevie Wonder, for you younger members) And, intentionally or not, occasionally we all say things that other people find offensive. I didn't mean to start or prolong an argument either Emily. I just wanted to speak up for Marcel because it sounded as if what you wrote was sent off in haste. I never thought you were deliberately trying to abuse Marcel, which is why I pointed out my objections to how you wrote your response. Funny, I was thinking about how we offend each other sometimes. I know I don't mince words when I'm speaking out. It occurred to me that the subject of this list, Joni, is one of the world's most outspoken critics of inequality, culture, business, politics, and dysfunctional relationships. She doesn't mince words either, does she? It's little wonder her art should attract such an outspoken bunch, eh? We're all in good company! I think we should be proud of our occasional disagreements and sensitivities. It proves we're capable of seeing beyond "junk food for juvenile" social interaction. Regards, Harper Lou ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 09 Apr 2001 09:47:02 -0400 From: Emily Kirk Gray Subject: Re: bjork NJC hi again harper lou, thank you for that post! i am sitting here this morning amazed at how MUCH emotion this list can generate in me. i know people have written about that before, but maybe this is the first time i am experiencing it... and you're right, i did respond to marcel in haste. possibly i could have found a less inflammatory way of stating what i found offensive, as others clearly did. i'll have to think about that in the future. - --emily ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 09 Apr 2001 10:07:42 EDT From: SCJoniGuy@aol.com Subject: Re: Joni Hall of Fame Article Sheila, Maybe it's this one, called "The Ambivalent Hall of Famer" from the database... http://www.jmdl.com/articles/docs/961201nyt.cfm ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 9 Apr 2001 07:41:51 -0700 (PDT) From: christopher blake Subject: Re: "wearing weeds" - --- Gordon Mackie wrote: > Christopher > > Just took this from the website...I was right > > > LADIES OF THE CANYON > > Trina wears her wampum beads > She fills her drawing book with line > Sewing lace on widows' weeds > And filigree on leaf and vine > Vine and leaf are filigree > And her coat's a secondhand one > Trimmed with antique luxury > She is a lady of the canyon > > Well what can I say > > Regards > > Gordon joni's "widows' weeds" is very interesting. it is only the second time then that i have run across the term. and joni does use it in the same sense as dickens. i still remain curious as to the origin of the mourning ritual. i wonder if joni picked it up from the same source i did, or is it common knowledge and i, again, am the last to know... peace - christopher. Get email at your own domain with Yahoo! Mail. http://personal.mail.yahoo.com/ ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 9 Apr 2001 11:13:56 -0400 (EDT) From: Catherine McKay Subject: Re: bjork NJC - --- jan gyn wrote: > >YOU chose to respond with an ugly personal attack > against Marcel because he > >wrote something you didn't like. > > > >Thanks for sharing. > > > >Harper Lou > > What was so ugly about it? I thought it was > apropos! Talk about calling > the kettle black... > -jan I didn't think it was an "ugly attack" either. I too thought Marcel's attack on Bjork was ugly. I didn't realize it was supposed to be humourous at all - I thought it was malicious. Maybe I just don't get that kind of humour. Hasn't the thing about sleeping their way to the top been done to death anyway? I had never even heard Bjork's music up until this point, so I have no vested interest in defending or deriding her but frankly, to make those kinds of remarks about *anyone* just because you don't happen to like their music is pretty mean-spirited in my opinion. Another case of attacking the person, rather than simply saying you don't like their music. I don't understand why you're defending Marcel, in this case, Louis. It seems to go against other posts you've made when people have made personal comments about the artist, rather than simply stating they don't happen to like that particular kind of music (unless I'm getting mixed up). Get your free @yahoo.ca address at http://mail.yahoo.ca ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 9 Apr 2001 11:19:30 -0400 (EDT) From: Catherine McKay Subject: Re: it made me sick! NJC - --- Tyler Hewitt wrote: > All this discussion about Bjork and dancer in the > dark > made me want to throw out a side topic: > Dancer in the Dark make me sick! Really physically > sick. The Blair Witch Project did the same thing. > I'm > prone to motion sickness (not in vehicles, but when > watching images move in certain ways I understand what you're saying. I was just watching it on a TV screen and I wasn't sure I could take it all the way through, but I stuck with it anyway. I can only imagine how all the close-up herky-jerky camera action would be on the big screen! Between that and the sheer tension of the last few scenes, I tensed up so much I thought I'd either scream or get sick. Better not to torture yourself for art. Get your free @yahoo.ca address at http://mail.yahoo.ca ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 9 Apr 2001 11:36:15 -0400 (EDT) From: Catherine McKay Subject: Everybody sorry - njc Please disregard the last e-mail I sent re: Bjork and people's reactions to a particular comment. Not that I didn't mean what I said, but that, I should have read ALL the posts before responding to Jan responding to Louis responding to... oh never mind - let's not start that one again. Hell, fertheluvagod, don't leave. If you could stick around during the American election fiasco, you can take anything! Get your free @yahoo.ca address at http://mail.yahoo.ca ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 9 Apr 2001 08:43:11 -0700 (PDT) From: Don Rowe Subject: Re: it made me sick! NJC Yeah DITD pretty much tore a page out of Oliver Stone's book so far as the camera work was concerned. What with all the Bjork flappery going on, just thought I'd weigh in on the movie. I too, saw it on the small screen, which given the direction & editing, actually seemed more appropriate. I guess for lack of a better term, I'll borrow one from Garrison Keillor and call it the "Dark Lutheran" musical ... complete with it's Kafka-esque cliches & the requisite doses of Marxist political subtext. As for the musical numbers themselves, I found them all quite interesting ... especially the way the rhythm beds spring very organically from industrial machines, trains passing by, the scratching of the courtroom artists' charcoal on the sketch pad, etc. I was wondering about half-way through if a cover of "Smokin" might be included! ;-) Now the artist herself. I guess Bjork was believeable to the extent that ... who else are you going to cast in that part? Cyndi Lauper could have pulled it off I guess, as could have Tracy Ullman (sp?) -- both from an acting & singing standpoint ... but it wouldn't have been the same without the signature Bjork "schtick" -- which is, in the end, all it really is, folks. C+ to B- overall ... certainly nothing that, at least in my opinion, merits the vehement knicker-twisting of this weekend's list traffic. Don Rowe ===== Visit me anytime at http://www.mp3.com/donrowe Get email at your own domain with Yahoo! Mail. http://personal.mail.yahoo.com/ ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 9 Apr 2001 11:43:03 EDT From: Coyote4Joni@aol.com Subject: Re: This list NJC In a message dated 04/09/2001 8:07:41 AM Pacific Daylight Time, pholden@iprimus.ca writes: << We support, we care, we love, we reach out, we agree, we disagree, we digress. We allow people to come close to us for perhaps the first time ever. We let each other in on our private lives. >> Mags, Wow! This post (a real keeper) was beautiful. Thanks. This snipped paragraph sums up the List in my opinion. Take care and enjoy a nice break, Hell. I'll sure miss ya, but will be here when you are ready to return. Coyote Rick Casa Alegre Hollywood, California ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 9 Apr 2001 11:56:31 EDT From: Coyote4Joni@aol.com Subject: Re: bjork NJC In a message dated 04/09/2001 8:38:25 AM Pacific Daylight Time, louislynch@paonline.com writes: << "There is a blue one can't accept the the green one for living with the fat one who's trying to be a skinny one, and so on and so on ..." (That's old Stevie Wonder, for you younger members) >> Hey Harper Lou, I thought it was made famous by Sly and the Family Stone? Wasn't it penned by Freddie Stewart? I think he also wrote "I Want To Take you Higher." Coyote Rick Casa Alegre Hollywood, California ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 9 Apr 2001 12:10:43 -0400 (EDT) From: Catherine McKay Subject: Re: bjork NJC - --- Coyote4Joni@aol.com wrote: > In a message dated 04/09/2001 8:38:25 AM Pacific > Daylight Time, > louislynch@paonline.com writes: > > << "There is a blue one can't accept the the green > one for living with the > fat one who's trying to be a skinny one, and so on > and so on ..." (That's > old Stevie Wonder, for you younger members) >> > > Hey Harper Lou, > > I thought it was made famous by Sly and the Family > Stone? It was. Don't know who wrote it but I bet someone out there does - Bob Muller? Don Rowe/Larry Klein? Get your free @yahoo.ca address at http://mail.yahoo.ca ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 9 Apr 2001 09:19:07 -0700 (PDT) From: Tyler Hewitt Subject: our differeing tastes such a split opinion over Bjork! I've already given my opinion, so enough of that. I find it interesting that while I assume that everyone on this list appreciates an in-tune vocal, there seems to be wide opinion on what that actually constitutes. My friend Deb in michigan is a musician, sings in a choir, is on at least 1 commercially available cd (a recording of Tchaikovsky's The Snow Maiden with the Detroit Symphony Orch.), plays piano, has a degree in music, and loves Bjork's voice (she also loves Joni, XTC, and introduced me to Nick Drake about 12 years ago). She should know an in tune vocal! My partner, who when we met listened almost exclusevly to classical music, and after 8 years together has actually grown to like a little (very little) pop/rock, also likes Bjork (He really likes Both Sides Now as well, but doesn't have the patience for other Joni). My point is that an argument can be made for Bjork actually being in tune! She has a really unusual style, which is what people find hard to digest. This will get some peoples' blood pressure up, but two names spring to mind for me when I think of BAD vocalists (outside of the obvious like Mrs. Miller): Fiona Apple and Stevie Nicks. Stevie has been around a lot longer and is harder to ignore, so I'll pick on her. I just cannot see the appeal there at all. She sounds like she's in pain when she sings! Horrid, irritating rasping with no apperant knowlwdge of what constitutes tonality. I read once that the reason she did that duet with Tom Petty is that when Tom was teaching her the song, she didn't know how to sing a melody with someone, and kept lapsing into harmony. Which may point to her skills as a harmonist, but also says something about her lack of ability. I lived next to a small wood full of feral cats a few years ago. Every time I would hear them maiting (which was often in the summer) i would comment "Oh, Stevie Nicks is in the backyard again!" ok, enough of that. Gotta go to work sooner or later! Tyler NP: 3 Mustaphas 3-Shopping Get email at your own domain with Yahoo! Mail. http://personal.mail.yahoo.com/ ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 9 Apr 2001 12:26:50 -0400 From: "louis.lynch" Subject: NJC -- Sly -- I stand corrected Rick, You are right -- it was Sly. Sorry. I was in a serious Stevie Wonder phase back then. I remembered I liked the song, therefore it must have been Stevie Wonder. I think Stevie was my first big musical crush. Please forgive me... I'm a cold heartless sarcastic bastard writer, not a music historian! Regards, Harper Lou ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 9 Apr 2001 12:32:04 -0400 From: "louis.lynch" Subject: Re: our differeing tastes NJC Tyler, Sorry, I disagree about Stevie Nicks. I think she has a very pretty, sexy voice. Her purring of Landslide is to melt for. The AT&T compilation CD has Stevie singing "At Last." It is by far my favorite cut, far above Joni, even. Oh well, to quote the song Don Rowe and the Family Stone made so popular during the 1970s, "Different Strokes for Different Folks." Regards, Harper Lou ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 9 Apr 2001 12:41:36 EDT From: Rusty10113@aol.com Subject: Re: Survivor No More Well, a sad day, as I've just discovered Joni was voted off Rolling Stone's Survivor island on April 6th... well, at least she lasted longer than Jennifer Lopez, Britney Spears and Christina Aguilera! M ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 9 Apr 2001 13:02:44 EDT From: IVPAUL42@aol.com Subject: Re: our differeing tastes In a message dated 4/9/01 12:23:36 PM Eastern Daylight Time, tahewitt@yahoo.com writes: << My point is that an argument can be made for Bjork actually being in tune! She has a really unusual style, which is what people find hard to digest. >> No more unusual or hard to digest than Yoko, whom Bjork seems to emulate more than anyone else I can think of. Paul I ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 09 Apr 2001 18:43:51 +0100 From: catman Subject: NJC It seems quite a few people have got more than a little upset recently on this list. I have found that surprising as things have been much worse in the past. A few observations of the things that have happened recently: a person offends several people over a period of time, consistently. they are asked to quit writing privately and they take no notice whatsoever and the posts keep being sent. So one of their private messages gets sent to the list. A 'peacekeeper' writes and complains about it yet does exactly the same thing, with no apology forthcoming. The person who has been asked to quit writing still keeps on writing to people who have asked them not to. Another 'defender' complains about abusive posts, yet is a master at the abusive post themselves! Humour is a personal thing, if you don't like it, delete it. however, there is humour which is not accptable(in my opinion)-that which relies on putting others down. Some of the humour would not be acceptable at all if it were about race but as it is only about women(and recently it has been) it seems to be acceptable. Generally this is a good list, with good energising discussion. It does appear to have gone down hill recently. I think the hypocrisy shown by some posters has not helped, insensitivity by others, and there is definately something wrong with a person who insists on sending unwanted mail. I know one person told me they felt harrassed. I understand why! So why can't we go back to our discussions, even the heated ones? Just leave out the hypocrisy and personal attacks. That way we can all learn, all get to express ourselves, and form good relations. It is enriching. It is only spoiled when the abuse starts flying. Isn't it easy to see how wars get started? - -- bw colin colin@tantra.fsbusiness.co.uk http://www.geocities.com/tantra_apso/index.html ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 09 Apr 2001 13:48:57 EDT From: SCJoniGuy@aol.com Subject: Mo' Covers: Sweet #16... Speaking of different strokes for different folks... It's another month, which means another volume to be released in wonderful wacky and weird world of Joni covers! Volume 16 is complete and is ready to be shared with any and all interested parties, let me start with the usual thanks to those who made it happen: Lindsay Monica Philip Stephen E. in NYC Jacky & me Now, let's have a look at the treats INSIDE the box, shall we... 1. Hoyt Axton, "He Played Real Good For Free" We all know Hoyt as the author of "Joy to the World" as well as many other classic rock songs. He's a friend of Joni's, I recall seeing a pic of him & Joni together. Anyway, this is a nice classic country version of this one with some nice fiddle! 2. The P.D.U.S.M., "Urge For Going" Boy, is this one obscure! I can't find out anything about this bunch, except that this is off a 45 record that came out in 1967! It has a classic "girl group" sound to it, everytime I hear it I think they're going to sing: I had a man in summertime, my folks were always putting him down....down... 3. Jane Michel, "Woodstock" Woodstock covers are interesting, because generally the artist imitates the CSNY hit or the Mathews Southern Comfort hit. Jane is one of the few who stays true to Joni's original release with electric piano and the yodel at the end. 4. Jane Michel, "Both Sides Now" And this one is pretty much a rehash of Collins' cover, still very enjoyable on its own merits. 5. Lisa Yves, "The Dry Cleaner From Des Moines" 6. Lisa Yves, "Twisted" These two are from Lisa's project called "Everybody's Boppin'", and are very cool because all the instruments on the tracks are played by kids, none older than 14. Before you diss it, let me tell you, these kids can swing. I think they must have snuck out of their rooms at night and ventured down to the Cotton Club or something! Very enjoyable... 7. Lydia van Dam, "Black Crow" What more can be said about Lydia? Her renditions of Joni's songs are unique & beautiful, and this one is no exception. I'm a Sweet Sucker for a Hejira cover anyway, and Lydia adds some vocalese to portray the crow flying. 8. Bev Hanson, "Both Sides Now" Bev & her little trio are probably playing at a Holiday Inn lounge near you. Also available for weddings and Bar Mitzvahs. 9. Vera Haime, "You Turn Me On, I'm A Radio" Another entry from the recent UK tribute, I found this one to be a little lackluster only because they don't try to bring anything new to it. Her voice is good enough, and the musicians are all capable, but it seems more like product than praise. 10. Michael Ball, "River" Another pretty version of this pretty song. Really hard to botch unless you pull a Billy Squier and just make up words as you go along... 11. Mary O'Hara, "Both Sides Now" Mary is a harpist by trade, and she adds her vocals to this track. Sorta Julie Andrews-ish... 12. Kennedy, "Urge For Going" Speaking of fiddles, here's a gorgeous version of UFG performed by the classic violinist alongside other rockin' tunes by Mozart, Handel, etc. This one is simply beautiful! 13. O.C. Smith, "Just Couldn't Help Myself" What? Joni co-wrote this song, I'm not sure if she wrote the music or lyrics, but I'm betting the music, because it has a real Court and Spark soul-jazz-pop kind of feel to it, the same type of soul flavor that 'Help Me' has... 14. Jeff Buckley, "People's Parties" Recorded on 12/31/95 at Sin-E, this is a rough & ragged live version that is nonetheless very enjoyable if only in terms of the love that Jeff shows for the song by its spontaneous inclusion in his set. Very rare, and thanks to Philip for digging it up! 15. Jeanne McDonald - "Both Sides Now" Jeanne is a Broadway crooner (I think), and offers up an original arrangement of the old warhorse here. 16. Singers Unlimited - "Chelsea Morning" This one's a true original, done in that peppy near-accapella style of the Singers. Someday I hope to see Patrick Leader & the Patrick Leader dancers do a full choreographed version! 17. P.M. Dawn, "Night In The City" This is a special radio mix of their contribution to the official Reprise tribute CD. Maybe it can tie you over til the real thing comes along. It is sweet, PMD bring their hip-hop rhythmic sensibility to this song and all of a sudden the 30-plus year-old tune is brand spanking new! 18. Jody Miller, "Urge For Going" This was cool because I had a hard time tracking it down, and Jody herself came to my aid! It must be that *all* Jodys are cool people. This is a very nice country version, most likely inspired by Hamilton's cover. 19. Peggy Chew, "Sweet Sucker Dance" Wow! This one's very cool! You think SSD is an easy song to cover, go ahead and give it your best shot! The intervals are tricky, the melody is tricky, and Peggy gets 2 thumbs up and extra points for difficulty. Whew! 19 tracks of Joni-inspired joy on one CD! Thanks again to all of you who contribute and support this project! Bob ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 9 Apr 2001 11:12:18 -0700 (PDT) From: Tyler Hewitt Subject: Bjorko Ono To be honest, I really like Yoko Ono too. Her Plastc Ono Band album realy rocks! I don't see any similarity of style between Bjork and Yoko, however. Tyler - --- IVPAUL42@aol.com wrote: > In a message dated 4/9/01 12:23:36 PM Eastern > Daylight Time, > tahewitt@yahoo.com writes: > > << My point is that an argument can be made for > Bjork > actually being in tune! She has a really unusual > style, which is what people find hard to digest. >> > > No more unusual or hard to digest than Yoko, whom > Bjork seems to emulate more > than anyone else I can think of. > > Paul I Get email at your own domain with Yahoo! Mail. http://personal.mail.yahoo.com/ ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 09 Apr 2001 14:14:33 EDT From: SCJoniGuy@aol.com Subject: Re: Mo' Covers: Sweet #16... Oops! In my haste I failed to mention one of my BEST supporters for this project and one of the contributors to Volume 16... Mike Quinn Mike's not a frequent poster, but he's a Joni covers freak just like me!! He's kept up with me every step of the way, and it's guys like him who keep me flippin' over rocks and bidding on E-Bay for the Joni covers we love and NEED! Mike, I'm so sorry to have forgotten you as a contributor!! Hope you can forgive me, and to punish myself when I get home I'm gonna have my son beat on me with a cricket bat! :~D Bob NP: Joe Jackson, "Man In The Street" ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 9 Apr 2001 14:51:25 EDT From: Coyote4Joni@aol.com Subject: Re: Everyday People NJC In a message dated 04/09/2001 10:07:12 AM Pacific Daylight Time, SCJoniGuy writes: << "Everyday People" was indeed penned by Sylvester "Sly Stone" Stewart, >> Hey Bob: Thanks for the information on SATFS. Well, we learn something everyday. I thought it was Freddie Stewart (the guitarist as I recall), who I knew was a member of SATFS, but didn't realize EP was actually written by Sly. I also thought Sly's last name was in fact Stone. Sylvester Stone. Since Sly and Freddie have the same last names -- are they related? Coyote Rick Casa Alegre Hollywood, California ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 09 Apr 2001 15:00:27 EDT From: SCJoniGuy@aol.com Subject: Re: Everyday People NJC <> Everybody in the band was related, which is why they were named "The Family Stone"...although I think that some of the relations were by way of marriage, but they were all family just the same. This is based on an interview I saw with the band by Dick Clark, way back on American Bandstand when Sly & Family was enjoying their success. I remember being struck by the piece of trivia because the band was interracial. Bob ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 09 Apr 2001 20:24:57 +0100 From: "Rob Ettridge" Subject: Kashmir Klub NJC Just thought I'd chip in about the Kashmir Klub. What a great venue! And what a good night! I'll definitely be going back. It was nice to put some faces to some names at last. And thanks Jackie for organising it all. Sorry it has taken so long to post this - quite old news now - but my Hotmail went down while I was out that night, and didn't come back up till today, so I've going through the weekends posts. So sorry also to those there that night that I said I'd contact off-list. I've also been having problems with the digests lately. A few have gone missing here and there. Seems to be a pattern developing with British listers, but that doesn't make much sense technically, does it? When my hotmail came back up, most of the digests appeared but in random order and at different times. Still no sign of #164 though... Rob NP I Wanna Hold You - Joan Armatrading _________________________________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 9 Apr 2001 15:28:26 EDT From: RoseMJoy@aol.com Subject: Re: Everyday People NJC In a message dated 4/9/01 3:05:37 PM Eastern Daylight Time, Coyote4Joni@aol.com writes: > . Since Sly and > Freddie have the same last names -- are they related? > > Yes, Freddie and Rosie are siblings. Graham was a cousin. I saw these guys live in NYC back in the late 60's. They were awesome. Some of their other hits were "Stand","I Want To Take You Higher", Dance To The Music" and "Family Affair". Rose rosemjoy@aol.com ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 9 Apr 2001 15:39:07 EDT From: FMYFL@aol.com Subject: Re: Everyday People NJC Bob replied to Coyote Rick: << "Everyday People" was indeed penned by Sylvester "Sly Stone" Stewart, >> and Yes, it's "A Family Affair", and though I'm not related to *The Stewarts* (directly anyway), I can say they were one of my favorite groups in the 70's. I got to see "Sly and the Family Stone" perform here in Ft. Myers many years ago. In fact Sly had to make many return appearances to my little town. Unfortunately it was because he was busted for drugs after the concert, and he'd have to fly down here for all the hearings. Sheriff Deputy Dog didn't give Sly any slack because of his fame. Jimmy (only 3 days til California) ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 09 Apr 2001 20:39:49 +0100 From: "Rob Ettridge" Subject: Word Quiz NJC This actually has a little Joni content, but it's very tenuous, so I NJCed it. Here in London we get a free paper on the Tube every morning called Metro. It's surprisingly good for just basic news (no opinions! most of the time), but more importantly it has some puzzles in the back to keep you amused during rush hour. Anyway, there's one puzzle called Clockword where all the answers have the same last letter and are written as spokes of a wheel. Once completed the outside letters spell out the name of a famous person. Last week the famous person was 'a female singer', I think you can all see where I'm going with this, and the clues were as follows: 1. Merry 2. University City 3. Showed agreement 4. Mean 5. Spoiled 6. Certainly 7. Layered 8. Frank 9. Antipathy 10. Spread 11. Reptile 12. Myth All answers end with an 'D', and the first letters spell out a female singer... I'll post them separately, incase someone wants a go at this. Rob NP - I Can't Lie To Myself - Joan Armatrading _________________________________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com. ------------------------------ End of JMDL Digest V2001 #168 ***************************** ------- Post messages to the list by clicking here: mailto:joni@smoe.org Unsubscribe by clicking here: mailto:joni-digest-request@smoe.org?body=unsubscribe ------- Siquomb, isn't she?