From: les@jmdl.com (JMDL Digest) To: joni-digest@smoe.org Subject: JMDL Digest V2001 #135 Reply-To: joni@smoe.org Sender: les@jmdl.com Errors-To: les@jmdl.com Precedence: bulk Unsubscribe: mailto:joni-digest-request@smoe.org?body=unsubscribe Archives: http://www.smoe.org/lists/joni Websites: http://www.jmdl.com http://www.jonimitchell.com JMDL Digest Wednesday, March 21 2001 Volume 2001 : Number 135 The 'Official' Joni Mitchell Homepage, created by Wally Breese, can be found at http://www.jonimitchell.com. It contains the latest news, a detailed bio, Original Interviews, essays, lyrics and much much more. The JMDL website can be found at http://www.jmdl.com and contains interviews, articles, the member gallery, archives, and much more. Information on the 4th "Annual" New England JoniFest: http://www.jmdl.com/jfne2001.cfm The Joni Chat Room: http://www.jmdl.com/chat.cfm ========== TOPICS and authors in this Digest: -------- Re: *Joni and smoking [Alison E ] Re: *Joni and smoking - Noe njc ["Gerald Notaro (LIB)" ] Re: *Joni and smoking [Phyliss Ward ] Joni and smoking [Sue Glumac ] Joni's Covers are Sssssssmokin'! [SCJoniGuy@aol.com] Re: Joni and Smoking ["blonde in the bleachers" ] Re: Joni and Smoking [Alison E ] smoking (njc) [Tyler Hewitt ] Indigo Goilz NJC ["Kate Bennett" ] Edith and Beating Bars ["Brenda J. Walker" ] good morning! (njc) [jan gyn ] Re: Joni and Smoking ["Linda Watson" ] Suddenly Tammy(njc) ["Victor Johnson" ] for marcel NJC [catman ] The Kashmir Klub njc [AzeemAK@aol.com] NJC New Laura Nyro!! [SCJoniGuy@aol.com] Bars in her head [James Leahy ] Re: Mural of Joni NJC NJC [Barbara Hirahara ] Re: thanx ali.........no joni ["shane mattison" ] Smokin NJC [Vince Lavieri ] Re: smoking (njc) ["Kakki" ] NJC Paging Arthur Bostrom! njc [AzeemAK@aol.com] Re: The other side - NJC [Barbara Hirahara ] Re: Smokin NJC ["Kakki" ] Smoking and allergy [GaelGreen@aol.com] Re: Smokin NJC [catman ] Re: Covers, Volume 15!! Kudos to Simon! ["Kakki" ] Re: Smokin NJC [MDESTE1@aol.com] Re: Smokin NJC [FMYFL@aol.com] FW: MORE JAZZ TAKES... [Michael Paz ] Re: *Joni and smoking [Michael Paz ] Re: Smokin NJC [Barbara Hirahara ] ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Wed, 21 Mar 2001 09:18:20 -0800 (PST) From: Alison E Subject: Re: *Joni and smoking - --- Jerry Notaro wrote: > That is quite clear. Nicotine > is just as addicting as alcohol or heroin. actually, nicotine is FAR more addictive than alcohol or heroine. > feel more pity for her > addiction than anything. > Jerry as a smoker, this is a problem but so do i! i try to smoke less than two packs a week, fewer than 5 a day if i can, but i don't always succeed. especially if i am out drinking. i hate to admit that something has that much control over me. to think that i wouldn't be able to get through a gallery walk through without lighting up, that would really make me feel weak. i also think it's shit that celebrities of any kind get to abuse the rules. it's very disrespectful, i think, of others. alison e. in nyc Get email at your own domain with Yahoo! Mail. http://personal.mail.yahoo.com/ ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 21 Mar 2001 12:46:39 -0500 (EST) From: "Gerald Notaro (LIB)" Subject: Re: *Joni and smoking - Noe njc On Wed, 21 Mar 2001, Alison E wrote: > as a smoker, this is a problem but so do i! i try to > smoke less than two packs a week, fewer than 5 a day > if i can, but i don't always succeed. especially if i Alison, Hate to report this, but just last week I read a research study that reported that cutting back does not work because the smokers just inhaled more deeply to get that nicotine. The result is just as much damage done. Jerry (in the same boat, nodding with agreement) ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 21 Mar 2001 18:11:20 -0000 From: "Garret" Subject: RE:joni and smoking Joni Mitchell is addicted to smoking. Joni Mitchell knows this; it's evident from remarks she's made when asked about it. perhaps she would like to quit, maybe that's why she gets a little snappy when asked about it. The truth is that smokers often wish to quit, others start and stop, and few stop completely- that is a huge accomplishment. but how can any of us, smokers or non-smokers, sit here and comment on Joni's smoking or anyone elses? i mean, yes it's fair enough to think about it and discuss, but we must refrain from passing judgement. you see we have no possible way to measure her attitude to her own smoking behaviour. maybe she LIKES smoking. maybe she HATES smoking. she must know the risk- bronchitis, emphysema, lung cancer, heart disease. the list goes ever on. and she probably realises that the risk tends to be exagerrated, but surely Joni knows that the risk increases with exposure, the more she smokes the higher her risk. as long as she *does* know the facts, then it is her *choice* to smoke, just like it is her choice to paint, her choice to sing! (ok, the rest is NJC and just me ranting about smoking in general) smoking is a complex activity. i guess the basic premise is the rapid delivery of a drug, nicotine, to the brain. and smoking does indeed allow rapid delivery of nicotine. gum does not. smoking brings airborne particles to the lining of the lungs. straight into the bloodstream, and of course oxygenated blood goes straight to the brain. nicotine from gum must be absorbed into the blood stream in the cheek or stomach and then be transported to the brain, this is a huge delay. so although you may indeed get the same amount of nicotine from gum, or from the patch, the feeling of "ahhh, i've smoked, and theres taht feeling" does not occur. so, it could be argued that smoking is a learned behaviour. you smoke, and straightaway you get taht buzz or whatever it is yo get. to further this effect, the tobacco companies cause smokers to overlearn by repetition. the closer the cigarette is packed the slower it will burn. the slower it burns, the more puffs you can take from it. therefore you get used to the repetitive *action* of using your hands, and of gettng many puffs. cigarettes are designed so that not every cigarette is so rewarding. there is some inherent variation, as any smoker can tell you. i mean, if every one was great you wouldnt need to do it as often. AND, this introduces a reward for the smoker. "will it or wont it be effective?". this will increase the persistence of the habit. rewards strengthen habits. removal of unpleasantness has the same effect.if you stop smoking you'll cough, get headaches etc. so if you *keep* smoking you won't get this. the chemical effect of nicotine acts as primary reinforcement for smoking. but there are also secondary reinforcements. these are seemingly irrelevant factors that become associated with the smoking behaviour. consider, for example, the end of a meal. this actually has nothing to do with smoking does it? but, if you get into the habit of having a smoke after dinner, every dinner will then become a reason to smoke. if you smoke while having a good long phone conversation, then every phone conversation will become a reason to smoke. it's just like the cup of tea or coffee that the nation enjoys at the end of Coronation Street! every episode is a reason to have a cup. and how many smokers use a cup of tea or coffee as an excuse to have a smoke? # then of course there is the physiological/chemical aspect of smoking. once nicotine is in your system your physiological state of arousal increases, and this is a level that, apparently, you'd like to maintain. when this level drops, you get those unpleasant symptoms- anxiety, decreased blood pressure, and even disturbed sleep. guys, i dont smoke. but my grandfather died of emphysema, so this is something i have taken an interest in. i can "get" all of the above, to those ends i dont question smoking behaviour. people, in general, want to be healthy. smokers included. but their smoking behaviour may threaten their lives. this is a conflict that deserves thought. GARRET NP- Rufus Wainwright- Foolish Love ps- paul castle posted the following link http://news.bbc.co.uk/hi/english/entertainment/newsid_1231000/1231741.stm telling us that Eva Cassidys SOTR would be played on TOTP, and just above the Eva articel there is an article about a smoking exhibition! its that list synchronicity thing again isnt it? ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 21 Mar 2001 09:58:05 -0800 From: Phyliss Ward Subject: Re: *Joni and smoking I have to agree with Alison. My husband, gave up alcohol, cocaine and heroin for good almost 16 years ago. He has tried many times, unsuccessfully, to give up smoking. The miracle is he hasn't smoked since Thanksgiving Day last year! But he still craves it every day..dreams about it frequently. With him it took a real spritual/personal motivation in both cases, to give them up. For drugs he realized it was his last chance, he would die if he didn't stop. With the cigarettes now, he has found a passion that he wants to pursue intensely, so he wants to make sure he sticks around the planet long enough to do that. Cross your fingers that he keeps up with it. I'd like him to be around a lot longer too. Alison E wrote: > --- Jerry Notaro wrote: > > That is quite clear. Nicotine > > is just as addicting as alcohol or heroin. > > actually, nicotine is FAR more addictive than alcohol > or heroine. > > > feel more pity for her > > addiction than anything. > > Jerry - -- Phyliss mailto:pward@datacourse.com ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 21 Mar 2001 09:33:28 -0800 From: Sue Glumac Subject: Joni and smoking Here's my explanation: There are many primitive native cultures that believe that they can communicate with the gods and "other" worlds through the smoke of their medicine pipes. The smoke actually carries the prayers and thoughts into the ethers. Oh yes, I also think it is one of the last forms of social rebellion. Sue ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 21 Mar 2001 13:24:52 EST From: SCJoniGuy@aol.com Subject: Joni's Covers are Sssssssmokin'! Lots of you have guessed on the Covers 15 Lotto, which is making Wink very happy. I've had to slap him silly just so I can take a lunch break. Come to think of it, Wink looks a little like Dubya! Anyway, some of you have inquired about the Covers Project in general. Les has been gracious enough to give me space on the JMDL site to store the database and also some neat search engines. If you want to see contents of the CD's thus far, or find out what we're looking for, check out http://www.jmdl.com/covers/index.cfm Thanks again to Les, the best webmaster this side of the Mississippi! Well, I guess actually you're on the other side! D'oh! :~) And thanks to all of you who have helped with this project - who would have thought when we started that we'd uncover 19 CD's worth, and NO signs of slowing down... Bob NP: Aretha, "Call Me" ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 21 Mar 2001 13:40:52 -0500 From: "blonde in the bleachers" Subject: Re: Joni and Smoking Nicely said! I have smoked for almost half of my life and I have tried numerous times to quit, but I feel that by quitting I am not being true to myself, quitting to me would be like losing a part of myself that I need to exist. Many people might view this outlook as sad, but cigarettes become an integral part of your life. So much to mine that every time I try to quit smoking and listen to music, I remember what the music was like while smoking one! >From: James Leahy >Reply-To: James Leahy >To: joni@smoe.org >Subject: Joni and Smoking >Date: Wed, 21 Mar 2001 08:25:04 -0500 > >Shelah Rogers, the host of CBC Radio's This Morning show, told a story >recently about an interview she did with Joni back in 1994. One of the >conditions of the interview was that Joni be allowed to smoke during the >interview in the CBC's non-smoking studios. Being a huge fan, Shelagh >agreed. > >After the interview, Shelagh was informed that she was going to be fined >for allowing smoking in the workplace. The man who "turned her in" was >none other than Shelagh's own husband, the show's producer. At the end >of her story, Shelagh stated that "Ever since then, Joni Mitchell has >put me $10,000 in debt." > >As for me, I smoke. I wish I were a nonsmoker, but I don't want to give >it up because I'm afraid that it's become so important to my whole being >that something dreadful would happen to me if I stopped. > >I smoke outside the gym after my workout. I'm always getting comments >from people who feel that this activity is somehow ironic, given the >circumstances, and that they have the right to comment on it. My >reaction is somewhat like Joni's. It makes me even more rebellious. I >guess what I'm really rebelling against are their middle-brow, >unoriginal minds -- couldn't they talk about something more intriguing, >like the weather? Criticizing smokers is health fascism at its worst. >It's such an easy target, a mom-and-apple-pie issue. Some of my critics >go jogging into downtown streets, sucking up all that CO2 at great >rates, damaging their knees and jolting their spines. Then they go off >to the bar and get pissed. I can only laugh. > >Now don't get me started on people and their cars! > >Jim _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 21 Mar 2001 11:23:04 -0800 (PST) From: Alison E Subject: Re: introduce myself hello shane! let's get this overwith: siquomb: she is queen undisputed of mind beauty np: now playing paul doesn't mean it, and marcel is republican. most of rest of us are gay men. i'm kidding! now that that's out of way... it appears that you already have your own name tag, a guitar and a festive beret. we'll see you at jonifest labor day weekend in boston. seriously, welcome. alison e. in nyc - --- shane mattison wrote: > dear friends, a big hello to you all from > calgary...you can find me listed on your member's > list under shane mattison...we feel a big connection > with joni up here...and since she wants to call > herself canadian, thus she remains.... Get email at your own domain with Yahoo! Mail. http://personal.mail.yahoo.com/ ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 21 Mar 2001 11:34:55 -0800 (PST) From: Alison E Subject: Re: Joni and Smoking - --- James Leahy wrote: > I smoke outside the gym after my workout. I'm always > getting comments > from people who feel that this activity is somehow > ironic, given the > circumstances, and that they have the right to > comment on it. My > reaction is somewhat like Joni's. It makes me even > more rebellious. > Jim this is too funny, i can totally relate. i used to do the same thing. i'll go for a long hike with my best friend barb, and as soon as we get back to the car i'll light up. she'll look at me as if i'm nuts for a minute, until i give her the same look back as she stuffs her mouth with a handful of m&m's. ;-) alison e. in nyc Get email at your own domain with Yahoo! Mail. http://personal.mail.yahoo.com/ ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 21 Mar 2001 11:49:54 -0800 (PST) From: Tyler Hewitt Subject: smoking (njc) I don't smoke, never have. Stopped smoking pot a few years ago. Don't usually make a fuss when people smoke around me. Am not hypocitical about it. I AM concerned about air pollution, especially from auto emissions. I feel that people need to give up their unsafe, fuel-wasting SUV's and use more mass transit. I would use mass transit myself except that the 20 minute trip by car from home to work is a nearly 2 hour trip by mass transit, as I have to transfer from city to suburban systems. My problem with smoking? I am TERRIBLY allergic to cigarrette smoke. We're talking severe headaches and difficulty breathing when I am exposed to it for more than a few minutes. I already avoid bars and nightclubs, which has caused me to miss many concerts, evenings out with friends, etc. Beyond this, I feel that I have the right to eat dinner out, and attend other public events without jeopordizing my health. I applaud California- I was in San Francisco last summer, and being able to hit a bar without suffering hours of pain was delightful. The worst part of all this is that people don't take me seriously when I claim to be allergic to tobacco smoke, even when it's known that it is a fairly common allergy. the assumption is that I'm making a big deal over nothing. Suffer one of my smoke-induced headaches and you'll rid yourself of that line of bullshit damn quick, I can tell you! My point is all this is that not everyone who complains about seconhand smoke is hypocritical or over sensitive. Fill your own home with carcinogens, I could care less. Just keep that crap away from me please! And understand that some oof us DO have medically valid reasons for wanting to avoid smoke. RE: I have seen so many people go way over the top in their zealotry against smokers. One can smoke outside in downtown L.A. 50 feet away from the nearest human being, and there is bound to be a person who will start loudly coughing and complaining. This is where I agree with colin - why aren't they more concerned with the general air pollution in downtown L.A., which is equivalent to smoking a pack and a half a day, or worse yet, the particulate matter emissions from cars that everyone commuting to work is subjected to on the freeways and streets every day? Some people are so hypocritcal. I've had some people who I know to regularly smoke pot start coughing around me smoking OUTSIDE, complaining about their lung and bronchial problems. I've known others who are selective with whom they reprimand like an ex-snoker woman I know who only goes after the easy mark to make a big scene about their smoking but who will also have one herself if it's with a new guy she is attracted to. Get email at your own domain with Yahoo! Mail. http://personal.mail.yahoo.com/ ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 21 Mar 2001 12:25:32 -0800 From: "Kate Bennett" Subject: Indigo Goilz NJC That would be very cool Victor! Victor said," I do intend to invite her(Emily) to the house concert I'm doing with Kate. I think it would be really cool if she could come. ******************************************** Kate Bennett www.katebennett.com sponsored by Polysonics www.polysonics.com Discover the Indies at Taylor Guitars: http://www.taylorguitars.com/artists/awp/indies/bennett.html ******************************************** ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 21 Mar 2001 13:02:33 -0800 From: "Brenda J. Walker" Subject: Edith and Beating Bars I've always thought of those bars as having several meanings, or, rather, invoking several images. Some of it may seem strange... First, bars of music. Second, bars of a cage - with the Kingpan as the cat, focused and aloof ("purring, all claws for now withdrawn") and Edith as the bird -- beating frantically, blindly against the bars trying to get away. They stare eye to eye like predator to prey - the predator not wanting to look away because she might escape and the prey not wanting to miss the first strike. Last and a bit less literal, the bars in her head are, really, only in her head. She's not trapped but she thinks she is. Just some random thoughts on a beautifully gray day . . . Brenda n.p. - k.d. lang - Suddenly (Invincible Summer is very groovy.) ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 21 Mar 2001 13:27:46 -0800 From: jan gyn Subject: good morning! (njc) http://home.talkcity.com/GaiaWay/beefdee/index3.html ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 21 Mar 2001 16:42:58 -0500 From: "Linda Watson" Subject: Re: Joni and Smoking - --- James Leahy wrote: > I smoke outside the gym after my workout. I'm always > getting comments > from people who feel that this activity is somehow > ironic, given the > circumstances, and that they have the right to > comment on it. My > reaction is somewhat like Joni's. It makes me even > more rebellious. > Jim I'm so glad I'm not the only person who does this. I'm a cardio-kickboxing instructor and I ALWAYS fire one up on my way out of the gym. People look at me like I'm insane or something, and it makes me want to blow smoke in their face when they comment on it, as if I'm too stupid to know the risks involved with my habit. I just want to say to them, "It's my lungs, go save your own soul and don't worry about mine". So much attention is focused on Joni smoking. I can only imagine how I would feel if everything in my life was under such close scrutiny by so many people. Oh the pressure...... Linda _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 21 Mar 2001 17:01:39 -0500 From: "Victor Johnson" Subject: Suddenly Tammy(njc) Is anyone else a fan of this band? I hadn't listened to them for some time but threw them on today and they sound very refreshing. I don't even know if they are still together. They are based out of Pennsylvania and I have a couple of their cd's. Victor NP: Suddenly Tammy -self titled Victor Johnson http://www.cdbaby.com/victorjohnson "Just beyond the morning falls the river of your dreams, Escaping from the day these wild creatures run away." Victor Johnson ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 21 Mar 2001 23:24:52 +0000 From: catman Subject: for marcel NJC Enjoy it Marcel. Jessie Jackson has added former Chicago Democratic Congressman Mel Reynolds to the Rainbow/PUSH Coalition's payroll. Reynolds was among the 176 criminals excused in President Clinton's last-minute forgiveness spree. Reynolds received a commutation of his six-and-a-half-year federal sentence for 15 convictions of wire fraud, bank fraud and lies to the Federal Election Commission. He is more notorious, however, for concurrently serving five years for sleeping with an underage campaign volunteer. This is a first in American politics. An ex-congressman who had sex with a subordinate won clemency from a president who had sex with a subordinate, then was hired by a clergyman who had sex with a subordinate." - -- bw colin colin@tantra.fsbusiness.co.uk http://www.geocities.com/tantra_apso/index.html ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 21 Mar 2001 18:27:18 EST From: AzeemAK@aol.com Subject: The Kashmir Klub njc Jackie wrote: << Looking forward to meeting up with you at the Kashmir in April. >> And Paul added << Me too. As I told you privately, you just never know who might turn up there. Last Saturday night Sheryl Crow and her band made a surprise appearance there playing to an audience of under 100 (which included Chrissie Hynde and Emmylou Harris). Apparently Sheryl played an acoustic set including 'Run Baby Run', 'If It Makes You Happy' and 'My Favourite Mistake' amongst others. Also, apparently Paul McCartney turned up a while back "to see what the vibe was all about." Joni's not in town working on her latest album, is she? >> Hey Paul! Good to have you back on the list! And are you familiar with the Kash?? As I may have said, I'm there every single Tuesday evening, and the odd Saturday too, although to my eternal chagrin, I wasn't there when Sheryl Crow played the other day :-( However, I was there the week before, when she was in the audience, and sitting about a yard away from me! I'm looking forward to our mini get-together there in April too - hope to see a few of the others there too. Azeem NP: Caroline Trettine - Ten Light Years (have you got this yet, Marian :-) ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 21 Mar 2001 19:18:28 EST From: SCJoniGuy@aol.com Subject: NJC New Laura Nyro!! Gary Zack gave me the heads up, and now I see this in my inbasket: We thought you'd be interested to know that the new CD Angel In The Dark by Laura Nyro will be available 3/27/01. Whoo-Hoo!! New Laura Nyro!?! Never thought I'd hear THOSE words again in my lifetime!! Bob NP: XTC, "King For A Day" ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 21 Mar 2001 19:31:46 -0500 From: James Leahy Subject: Bars in her head I always thought of this line as a description of Edith's physical state after taking the drugs that the Kingpin has just given her. She seems to be experiencing a faster heartbeat and perhaps a headache. She is experiencing great sensitivity to noise: a plane in the rain is humming; bars in her head beating frantic; wires in the wall are humming. The lines "tilts their tired faces gently to the spoon" and "snowblind" suggest they've just taken heroin. Joni also uses the word "bars" in "A Chair in the Sky": "The rain slammed hard as bars ..." Jim ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 21 Mar 2001 16:34:07 -0800 From: Barbara Hirahara Subject: Re: Mural of Joni NJC NJC Dear Catgirl, Oh Dear! Its the day after the Vernal Equinox and the high point of my "What will people think" style of paranoia. Are you kidding? Do the lyrics you quote point to falseness of relationships on this list or on the WEB in general? Or do they simply stir something inner in you or none of the above? If this is just a reference please help me calm my "Springtime paranoia." Barbara Hirahara This is such a fun list. I love the camaraderie and erstwhile jesting. > I have a lot of stress in my life which I won't bore you with, and I > find joy in remembering simpler times. >> > > On Joni's live at the BBC, she hadn't finished "All I want" and the chorus > goes... > > You're not real no, no > Do you think you're fooling me, > With these false pretenses, > of phoney camaraderie > > I wasn't sure how to pronounce let alone write camaraderie, so thanks for > spelling it out to me... > Catgirl [demime 0.97c removed an attachment of type text/x-vcard which had a name of hirahara.vcf] ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 21 Mar 2001 17:49:03 -0700 From: "shane mattison" Subject: Re: thanx ali.........no joni Yykes yaa scared me for a sec...thanks for the greeting... hmmm...alison...eastern seaboard...ali mcgraw...nah...forget it...didn't know everbawdy could see beret...warn it for years...part of my beat readins'...yah i'd like to come to joni fest "ali"...but gee it only costs a thousand or two from here...need my ex-gal united flight attendant back....yykes too many secrets being revealed...better go NOW.....shane - ----- Original Message ----- From: "Alison E" To: "shane mattison" ; Sent: Wednesday, March 21, 2001 12:23 PM Subject: Re: introduce myself > hello shane! > > let's get this overwith: > siquomb: she is queen undisputed of mind beauty > np: now playing > paul doesn't mean it, and marcel is republican. most > of rest of us are gay men. i'm kidding! > now that that's out of way... > it appears that you already have your own name tag, a > guitar and a festive beret. > we'll see you at jonifest labor day weekend in boston. > > seriously, welcome. > > alison e. in nyc > > --- shane mattison wrote: > > dear friends, a big hello to you all from > > calgary...you can find me listed on your member's > > list under shane mattison...we feel a big connection > > with joni up here...and since she wants to call > > herself canadian, thus she remains.... > Get email at your own domain with Yahoo! Mail. > http://personal.mail.yahoo.com/ ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 21 Mar 2001 20:05:56 -0500 From: Vince Lavieri Subject: Smokin NJC I used to smoke, 2+ packs a day, always after I worked out. I hated people who pestered to me quit. Every time an anti-smoking public service announcement was played on tv, I lit up another. I used to say that aerobics was no challenge if you weren't a smoker. When I hit my 40s I figured I was at the age where I get to choose how I will die, and lung cancer and emphazema had no appeal. The first time I tried to quit, within two days I was fainting constantly and the doctor actually had MRIs done to see what the cause was, and what it was, was nicotine withdrawal. I'm not making any list of what other things I gave up with no problem, like caffeine, and that is the end of my public list. The nicotine however gripped me with a passion. I actauuly ceased smoking in 1996 for 12 weeks and then one visit with my father, the militant antismoker, and I was lighing up again. I kept quitting from 1995 until 1999 and then, taking Welbutrin, on the patch, chewing the gum, I finally made it when I saw my grandson trying to smoke from cigarette butts in the ash tray and my second grandson was born. Quitting was hell, but worth it. Consider: smoking: 2+ packs a day, at $3@pack, do the math. Nonsmoking: I have all the Joni albums, all the Janis Joplin albums, season ticket package for the White Sox, saw Joni twice in concert in two different cities, paid off a bunch of bills, got a mountain bike, got a newer Nissan 300ZX, and got a DVD. That's for starters. The money, the money, the money I am saving is making a lot of other things possible. I like it. I'd never tell anyone to quit because if a person every wants to, it is a personal choice from within. Smokers should never be harrassed, it makes them smoke more. Some people quit without a backwards glance. Some people have to quit over and over and over again and use every method available to quit. This is all pointless but I want everyone to lay off the smokers and let the smokers know hey, it is a part of one's life and don't let no one put you down. If indeed you decide to quit, and that is your choice, your motivation must be from within and do every possible method to quit and keep trying. Nicotine is more addictive than heroin but it can be beat. And when you are suddenly finding $30 or $40 extra dollars in your wallet each week... spend it on yourself as your reward for having money to spend on yourself. (the Rev) Vince ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 21 Mar 2001 16:29:04 -0800 From: "Kakki" Subject: Re: smoking (njc) Tyler, I completely take people at their word and am concerned if they tell me that they are allergic to smoke, or have respiratory problems because of it. I'm not trying to say that everyone who complains is doing it arbitrarily. But I seriously have met many, many people who I am skeptical of when they say it bothers them. This would include a co-worker many years ago who spent every night playing guitar for hours in stuffy smoke-filled bars, who loudly complained that my smoking *inside* my office 20 feet away was bothering his allergies; several people who I know have smoked marijuana for years on a regular basis who have vilified me for smoking tobacco; the woman who I mentioned yesterday who encourages her child to rudely chastise adults who are smoking outside several yards away from her; but who nonetheless leaves the child with babysitters who chain smoke inside on a regular basis, or who will smoke herself if her latest boyfriend is a smoker; and there are many, many more personal experiences which I've had with people like this. I am not exagerrating about these people. On the other hand I have two close friends who truly do have problems, one with allergies and one with emphysema. I swear to you those two, who have the most right to complain, have never done so in front of other smokers in all the years I've known them. Not that they shouldn't complain but it is strange that the honest ones don't and the highly suspect and hypocritical ones do. Unfortunately the majority of my experiences has been with the latter and I wonder what they really are getting at by their actions. I suspect it just makes them feel superior in some way, or gives them an excuse to pick out someone to harass. That's sure what it feels like from this side. It's a shame that they gives a "bad name" to the people who really have a valid complaint. Kakki Tyler wrote: > My problem with smoking? I am TERRIBLY allergic to > cigarrette smoke. The worst part of all this is that people don't take > me seriously when I claim to be allergic to tobacco > smoke, even when it's known that it is a fairly common > allergy. the assumption is that I'm making a big deal > over nothing My point is all this is that not everyone who > complains about seconhand smoke is hypocritical or > over sensitive. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 21 Mar 2001 19:58:56 EST From: AzeemAK@aol.com Subject: NJC Paging Arthur Bostrom! njc Arthur, I have just seen your potted biog in the JMDL gallery, and notice that you like Kiki Dee; well, she's playing at the Kashmir Klub on Wednesday 28th March! I'm assuming you're in England,although you could in fact be in Ouagadougou, in which case I doubt you'll make it to London! If you are within striking distance from London and are interested in going, please get in touch off-list. [Arthur's email address isn't given, hence this post to the list] Best wishes, Azeem in London ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 21 Mar 2001 17:00:26 -0800 From: Barbara Hirahara Subject: Re: The other side - NJC hell wrote: > > What artists/albums do you own, that are the furthest removed from Joni? What with family obligations and getting over Saint Patty's Day I just, now, came across this post. Will Smith- Wild, Wild West Brasilerio- Putumayo World Music dc talk- Jesus Freak Terje Rypdal- EOS David Darling Handel- Messiah Academy of Ancient Music and, of course, Dan Kuramoto, Yutka and Hiroshima Barbara Hirahara [demime 0.97c removed an attachment of type text/x-vcard which had a name of hirahara.vcf] ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 21 Mar 2001 16:59:13 -0800 From: "Kakki" Subject: Re: Smokin NJC Vince wrote: > I kept quitting from 1995 until 1999 and then, taking Welbutrin, on the > patch, chewing the gum, I finally made it when I saw my grandson trying > to smoke from cigarette butts in the ash tray and my second grandson was > born. Quitting was hell, but worth it. Thanks for the compassionate post! ;-) I have a friend who smoked 3 packs a day for over 30 years and nothing worked to help him quit until he was prescribed Welbutrin. All of my doctors are now recommending Xyban (or is is Zyban?) which is a mild anti-anxiety medication that seems to be the currently preferred drug to help people successfully quit. I know I will have to go this route at some point. I also wanted to comment more about Joni. I really don't think she is trying to glamorize smoking or even to be obstinate. I believe, as she says, that she is extremely addicted and has been completely unsuccessful at quitting. This may sound strange to some people, but I think that when she poses for photos or in her paintings with a cigarette, it is kind of her way of being honest with the public ("yep, I'm addicted") and perhaps also making a wry empathetic statement to fellow people afflicted that "yep, I'm one of the pariah, too." It looks rebellious on the surface and in a way it is, but it is not being rebellious for the sale of rebellion, or meant to encourage people to smoke because it's cool and glamorous. She knows it's not healthy, but she is, so far powerless to stop it. Most every smoker who lives in California (that would include Joni) these days are NOT considered glamorous or cool - we are mostly ridiculed, shunned, given dirty looks or tossed outside like an unwanted stray cat. It's predominately "socially incorrect" to smoke here. Kakki ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 21 Mar 2001 20:47:22 EST From: GaelGreen@aol.com Subject: Smoking and allergy Hi, I don't doubt your allergy for a minute, BUT, I worked as a medical transcriber for a cardiologist for several years. He absolutely LOATHED smoking. Loathed it. Yet he told us that there were actually very few people truly allergic to cigarette smoke. You are one of them, but it is NOT a common allergy. Smoke up anyone's nose causes sneezing, etc., but that is not a true allergy. Perhaps some of those who claim they are allergic are suffering from the effects of inhaling smoke, which is a very irritating substance. I've been a smoker and a non-smoker, non right now, and am sensitive to the complaints and needs of both. It's not all one-side. Once again, please not that I do not for one minute question your allergy to cigarette smoke, only your stating as fact that many people are allergic to the smoke. :) Gael << > My problem with smoking? I am TERRIBLY allergic to > cigarrette smoke. The worst part of all this is that people don't take > me seriously when I claim to be allergic to tobacco > smoke, even when it's known that it is a fairly common > allergy. the assumption is that I'm making a big deal > over nothing My point is all this is that not everyone who > complains about seconhand smoke is hypocritical or > over sensitive. >> ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 22 Mar 2001 01:50:35 +0000 From: catman Subject: Re: Smokin NJC Have you noticed how the badies in films smoke and the goodies don't? Hardly subtle! Since when did smoker/wicked person become synonymous? bw colin ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 21 Mar 2001 17:31:54 -0800 From: "Kakki" Subject: Re: Covers, Volume 15!! Kudos to Simon! Just wanted to add my kudos to Simon. The selections are wonderful and often rare, and the audio recording quality is stupendous - it really sounds like a high-end, professionally recorded "audiophile" set. Thanks to Simon, once again, for the painstaking effort he puts into sharing these gems with us. Kakki Bob wrote: > Now that (hopefully) the "smoke" has cleared, I want to mention the latest volume in the >burgeoning "Covers & Contributions" series...The 2-CD Volume 15! Now I won't go any >further before I acknowledge the contributor for the ENTIRE SET!! Simon has opened the >vaults and mastered a true gem of a collection here. Also, as he is blessed with a King's ransom >worth of audio equipment, the sound quality here is par excellence! ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 21 Mar 2001 21:07:55 EST From: FMYFL@aol.com Subject: Re: Smokin NJC In a message dated 3/21/01 7:59:48 PM Eastern Standard Time, revrvl@pathwaynet.com writes: << I kept quitting from 1995 until 1999 and then, taking Welbutrin, on the patch, chewing the gum >> Gee Vince, it seems like Welbutrin is the drug of the millennium. My ex takes it for depression. My best friend's wife is taking it to increase her sex drive. I use it to fertilize my plants :~)..............seriously, the first two statements are true and if it helped you quit smoking........that's great!!! the best to you! Jimmy ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 21 Mar 2001 21:12:33 EST From: FMYFL@aol.com Subject: Re: Smokin NJC In a message dated 3/21/01 8:39:43 PM Eastern Standard Time, KakkiB@worldnet.att.net writes: << Most every smoker who lives in California (that would include Joni) these days are NOT considered glamorous or cool - we are mostly ridiculed, shunned, given dirty looks or tossed outside like an unwanted stray cat. It's predominately "socially incorrect" to smoke here. >> Okay Kakki, when I come out there next month, you'll have to show me to the leper colony to light up. (or maybe we can go to Joni's house :~) ) wanting to want to quit, Jimmy ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 21 Mar 2001 18:07:39 -0800 From: "Kakki" Subject: Re: Smokin NJC LOL Jimmy!! On the off-chance we don't get the invite to Joni's you can at least be comforted that Coyote Rick's Casa Alegre and the Kakkishack are both free-puffing zones ;-D There are also a few places in Hollywood and West Hollywood where they bend the smoking rules. There is some kind of loophole in the local L.A. health code where if every person in a bar or club either agrees to let someone light up, or has no objection, then they can smoke inside. It's not totally legal, but there is some murky area in the code where it is somewhat O.K. if everyone agrees to it. The moment someone complains, however, it is "lights out". The places I've been where they do this is Dan Tana's (the Joni hang-out where she wrote about "p***ing a Tequila the length of the parking lot"); Les Deux Cafes (coincidently another Joni hang-out) and Johnny Depp's Viper Room. But since you will also be visiting San Diego, I would suggest sticking to the rules there. Each city gets to enforce the law in their own way. While L.A. is lenient, I've read that in San Diego they call the cops and take to you right to jail!! Can't wait to see you soon! Kakki > Okay Kakki, when I come out there next month, you'll have to show me to the > leper colony to light up. (or maybe we can go to Joni's house :~) ) > > wanting to want to quit, > Jimmy ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 21 Mar 2001 22:29:53 EST From: MDESTE1@aol.com Subject: Re: Smokin NJC Ah, those halcyon days of yesteryear when I smoked two packs a day.Eventually I quit in nliterally one day April 3, 1978. My ten favorite smoking memories. 10) At the Fillmore. few things were better than a cig after a fantastic set of rock and roll played by one of the greats. The Who, ten years After, Hendrix. After seeing Janis belt out Ball and Chain you practically had to salute the blues. We used to go out the side door or just outside the front door and the mixture of a great cig and the cold air was fab. 9) In the army: Sometimes the only pleasure you had between 100 pushups and some redneck sergeant yelling at you was the obligatory 10 minute cigarette break for the boys in the unit. I particularly remember the ones I snuck on guard duty in the middle of the night at 3am in freezing weather. 8) Card games in college. the ones that went all night. Pedro, Poker. Gin, you name it. A pack of cigs each was mandatory just to improve your mental calculatory skills.Besides which you had to have a screen of smoke to hide the look in your eyes and give you an excuse for sweating. 7) Sunday Morning coffee and folk music on the FM radio. Dylan smoked. Joni smoked. So since I was playing all their songs. I smoked. So there. 6) Heavy Political discussions. Sitting around and listening to your best friends plot the overthrow of the US government provided overwhelming impetus to smoke copious amounts of cigs.Had to make sure there was only one candle going inthe entire room along with some jasmine incense. Just to assume that revolutionary look and get the army jackets in fitting odiforous form. Veeeeeery 60's that was. 5) Smoke ring contests. Amidst the one-candle light we had smoke ring contests. I had a friend who could make a ring that was so big and thick that it would slowly fly about three feet into the air and just stay there for about an hour. We used to call them used tires. "Hey Mickey how about a used tire". Out it would come after a huge sucking hit of the old Marlboro. 4) Discussing Hegel, Nitzsche, John Stuart Mill, Marx, and Yosarians role in Catch 22, among other weighty subjects with a black light and some indian music going. All night discussions before we would ecide to skip class entirely just to keep the discussion going. 3) After a great set of playing and singing in one of the many clubs I played in. Some of those cigarettes were very memorable. Particularly along with a big hit of Tequila a squeeze of lime straight out of the fruit and a gob of salt poured onto a saliva patch i had puyt onthe back of my hand. 2) Then there were all those cigarettes I cant relate the story of because of the circumstances they occurred after but im sure you will figure out what they were since I changed my phone number years ago to get the witnesses off my trail. 1) Perhaps the best of all however were those very special ones that were the product of the special preparation method that has been passed down through many generations of smokers especially those who are in the service during wartimes and work on carson the stock car circuit in the 50's.. (1)You took a pack of filterless Camels and opened the pack up to expose the tips on one end. (2) allow to sit on your dashboard in the heat for at least one week until they get almost stale. (3) Enjoy. Feel that burst hit your chest like athe kick of a mule. (4) get real dizzy. (sound of the theme to all in the family) "Those were the days.... marcel ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 21 Mar 2001 22:35:56 EST From: FMYFL@aol.com Subject: Re: Smokin NJC In a message dated 3/21/01 9:31:21 PM Eastern Standard Time, KakkiB@worldnet.att.net writes: << I've read that in San Diego they call the cops and take to you right to jail!! >> Why do you think I'm going to San Diego??? :~) Can't wait to see you and the rest of the LA contigent! Jimmy ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 21 Mar 2001 21:31:57 -0800 From: Michael Paz Subject: FW: MORE JAZZ TAKES... Hey Guys I just wanted to remind everyone of David's request and thought I would re-post this email from him. I got the new record today and am planning on listening to it the first time tomorrow when I can enjoy it in the order the artist intended it in the first place. It was very hard to take the 35 minute ride home from Tower Records without cheating. Can't wait!. Michael NP-The Hissing of My Stereo (with nothing playing) - ---------- From: Dflahm@aol.com Reply-To: Dflahm@aol.com Date: Sun, 11 Feb 2001 14:56:43 EST To: joni@smoe.org Subject: MORE JAZZ TAKES... I hope anyone purchasing MORE JAZZ TAKES ON JONI MITCHELL will want to enjoy the surprise of identifying the songs yourself. Please don't read the titles before you play it the first time. Furthermore:I feel strongly that the proper order of tracks should have been the following. (Fortunately, you can program your CD players to hear them in this order and by so doing, would avail yourself of MY intent.) 1 9 11 10 2 8 5 6 3 4 7 ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 21 Mar 2001 21:34:33 -0800 From: Michael Paz Subject: Re: *Joni and smoking Pssst! Wanna burn one??? Paz on 3/20/01 8:06 PM, Kathryn Herrity at KakkiB@worldnet.att.net wrote: > colin and MG, > > O.K. I know I am biased on this subject being a rather defiant (but > hopefully never rude) smoker myself. I see how she broke the rules in > Saskatoon and at the Tribute but how grevious was the effect in reality? > She lit up one or two in the gallery - I don't think Gilles, who was close > to her could have cared less, and the amount of smoke was not enough to ruin > the gallery environment. Smoke can affect paintings, but in this case, they > were her own, and no doubt subjected to years of her smoke anyway. Maybe it > was rude to the reporters? Most of them were international and most > countries outside the U.S. don't make as big a deal about secondhand smoke > that we do. She was probably anxious about the show, she is admittedly > quite addicted, and it was her big day, so in that perspective, I don't > think I would call her out on it. As for the Tribute, again I don't think > one cigarette up in her balcony with Donald and friends was so egregious. > Last I knew smoking inside was allowed in New York (although perhaps not in > that venue). I'm not trying to excuse her and say she is above the rules, > but I have seen so many people go way over the top in their zealotry against > smokers. One can smoke outside in downtown L.A. 50 feet away from the > nearest human being, and there is bound to be a person who will start loudly > coughing and complaining. This is where I agree with colin - why aren't > they more concerned with the general air pollution in downtown L.A., which > is equivalent to smoking a pack and a half a day, or worse yet, the > particulate matter emissions from cars that everyone commuting to work is > subjected to on the freeways and streets every day? Some people are so > hypocritcal. I've had some people who I know to regularly smoke pot start > coughing around me smoking OUTSIDE, complaining about their lung and > bronchial problems. I've known others who are selective with whom they > reprimand like an ex-snoker woman I know who only goes after the easy mark > to make a big scene about their smoking but who will also have one herself > if it's with a new guy she is attracted to. I would bet Joni has either > experienced or witnessed some of these same situations and I think it does > stoke her defiance a bit. Bottom line is people should be so zealous about > tackling the more important big issues, IMHO. ;-) > > Kakki ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 21 Mar 2001 20:08:46 -0800 From: Barbara Hirahara Subject: Re: Smokin NJC Ahem, humph, humph, hack, wheeze... where's my inhaler? quick! I'm serious!! I haven't enjoyed a cigarette like that in 10 years. That's how long its been since I burned a grette (nick name for cigarette.) I used to put a fat roach in the tip of my cigarette to celebrate having just killed a doob. All those years of hanging by back and side doors, ah, but a fleeting memory. Then of course, there were the poses and the million and one ways to light them and the cute way to pick up guys by bumming them. Do I miss smoking? Yep. Would I rather breathe? Mostly yes. If I smoke just one will I become addicted again? Yep. You know what they say... "If it doesn't kill you it will only make you stronger." As a former smoker who had the choice to live or die, I rather like not smoking but it doesn't offend me when others do. I'm a big girl and I know how to leave the party when the smoke gets too thick. I know that when I visit smoking friends they will smoke in their house. I never have wanted people conform to some mold to please or suit me. I have never been one to presume what is good for others and I often think that my personal opinion is boring and not very popular. As far as rude, or crass or any other moral description that defines people by their habits, I try to refrain from partaking in judgment calling, after all, even St. Bernadette was known to enjoy a chaw or two, she claimed it helped her asthma. Marcel, your post really made me laugh and the only reason I responded to your post is I think I'm the last person to have a say about the golden leaf on this list and so now we can put this baby to bed. (3) Enjoy. Feel that burst hit your chest like > athe kick of a mule. (4) get real dizzy. (sound of the theme to all in the > family) "Those were the days.... > > marcel [demime 0.97c removed an attachment of type text/x-vcard which had a name of hirahara.vcf] ------------------------------ End of JMDL Digest V2001 #135 ***************************** ------- Post messages to the list by clicking here: mailto:joni@smoe.org Unsubscribe by clicking here: mailto:joni-digest-request@smoe.org?body=unsubscribe ------- Siquomb, isn't she?