From: les@jmdl.com (JMDL Digest) To: joni-digest@smoe.org Subject: JMDL Digest V2001 #91 Reply-To: joni@smoe.org Sender: les@jmdl.com Errors-To: les@jmdl.com Precedence: bulk Unsubscribe: mailto:joni-digest-request@smoe.org?body=unsubscribe Archives: http://www.smoe.org/lists/joni Websites: http://www.jmdl.com http://www.jonimitchell.com JMDL Digest Saturday, February 24 2001 Volume 2001 : Number 091 The 'Official' Joni Mitchell Homepage, created by Wally Breese, can be found at http://www.jonimitchell.com. It contains the latest news, a detailed bio, Original Interviews, essays, lyrics and much much more. The JMDL website can be found at http://www.jmdl.com and contains interviews, articles, the member gallery, archives, and much more. ========== TOPICS and authors in this Digest: -------- Re: Facelift + Joni's story ["hell" ] NOT WORTHY OF TELEVISING ["Dave and Beth Fairall" ] re:radiohead creep - njc ["Garret" ] COMPOSITION, NOT QUITE ["Dave and Beth Fairall" ] Re: George Harrison's Birthday!!! Feb. 25th NJC [Vince Lavieri ] Re: Joni and Tim - Spider Robinson column, Globe and Mail [philipf@tinet.] Re: Grammies [philipf@tinet.ie] Re: Joni to appear at Mardi Gras! [Michael Paz ] Re: Hawaiian Taxi [Michael Paz ] Re: Wayne & Brian (NJC) [Michael Paz ] Re: Facelift + Joni's story [Michael Paz ] **2 against nature - NJC [RK1THXguy@aol.com] Re: Grammy controversy - NJC [TreyCozy@aol.com] RE: Joni and Tim - Spider Robinson column, Globe and Mail, also facelifts ["patrick leader" ] Catching up (njc) ["Kakki" ] Upcoming Joni cover alert - Ingrid Graudins [Penny ] yeah, we're gorgeous [Kate ] Re: Critical Praise (NJC) ["Victor Johnson" ] ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Sat, 24 Feb 2001 12:08:38 +1300 From: "hell" Subject: Re: Facelift + Joni's story > SCJoniGuy@aol.com wrote: > > > < > Having been in her company, I am positive that her aura and radiance give the > > illusion of a younger person as opposed to something artificial. I feel that > > Joni values her years, and admires people like Georgia O'Keefe that have the > > signs of truth & beauty about them.>> > > and now Mags wonders aloud: > > could it be that our Joni exemplifies the radiant beauty found in Canadian women? Nice response, Mags! I don't think Joni has had plastic surgery. I've been intrigued by the subject, so have been checking out as many recent photos as I can. She has the "looseness" around the jowl area, and her neck is not the smooth expanse of skin it once was (a fairly clinical analysis of my hero)! I'm sure if she'd had surgery, that would be something that would have been attended to. Joni is one of those lucky women with high cheekbones, and a naturally slim figure, and she's just aging very gracefully. And this from the articles section of www.jmdl.com (The New Joni Mitchell - London Times Magazine, Feb 26, 2000): But what about those other facelifts, the non-smiling, very surgical ones? The effects of age on beauty? The increased-effort-for-less-reward-thing that Cher spoke about? "Oh, I think I always sat on the cusp of beauty anyway," Mitchell shrugs. "No one was ever quite sure if I was beautiful or ugly, pretty or plain. It seemed interpretable. Quite possibly, it changed from day to day. Because I've got a rubber face. Look! It can hold a Garbo-like pose..." She demonstrates. "But then, all of a sudden, it flies off into Edith Bunker [American television's equivalent of the Else Garnett character in our 'Till Death Us Do Part]!" She demonstrates again. "See? There's a comedic streak to my looks, in a way. A gurning tendency. "Of course, the concept of ageing gracefully is alien here. The elderly are invisible, almost literally; as soon as you get wizened, they hide you away in a home. But there's got to be a better way of fighting that culture than by cutting and snipping. I mean, you can nip and tuck your face and body all you like, have stuff sucked out of here and there, but - well, you can't do anything for your hands and feet! And how's that going to look? Wrinkly old hands and feet, when everything else is pulled tight? "Also, it seems that once people start down that road, they get the appetite to redo and redo. Have surgery once and, I guarantee, you'll find yourself tempted to have it again. In no time at all, you've become this macabre old thing." She shudders. Giggles at the horror of it all. No, absolutely. That route is not for her. me again: I hope I look like her when I'm in my late fifties, but the chances are I'll have lines so deep you could hear an echo, and I'm not even going to talk about the effects of gravity on other prominent features of female anatomy! They're already heading south at a pace which is more than a little disturbing! Hell ____________________________ "To have great poets, there must be great audiences too." - Walt Whitman hell@ihug.co.nz Visit the NBLs (Natural Born Losers) at: http://www.nbls.co.nz ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 23 Feb 2001 18:37:00 -0600 From: "Dave and Beth Fairall" Subject: NOT WORTHY OF TELEVISING I couldn't agree more Deb. But then we all know it's really just about the almighty $$$. For instance, they don't even give lip service to Jazz music anymore, the only real American artform. It's painful to watch so many poseurs with so little talent. Dave F. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 23 Feb 2001 15:44:56 -0800 From: Steve Dulson Subject: No.1 on your birthday - NJC Hell wrote, >Here's a bit of fun! The following link will allow you to see what songs >(UK and US) were No. 1 on the day you were born - or any other day for that >matter, wedding day, anniversaries, etc. Well, hell, Hell! It won't go earlier than 1952! Me and Mr. Lahm are in real trouble! :) (I'm slowly wading through all the digests from when I was on vacation.) - -- ######################################################## Steve Dulson Costa Mesa CA steve@psitech.com "The Tinker's Own" http://www.tinkersown.com "Southern California Dulcimer Heritage" http://members.aol.com/scdulcimer/ "The Living Tradition Concert Series" http://www.thelivingtradition.org/ ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 24 Feb 2001 00:08:48 -0000 From: "Garret" Subject: re:radiohead creep - njc patrick, me, i love Radiohead. i could even apply that dreaded term "favourite" to them. i got into the band with the release of The Bends. that album was like a soundtrack for teenagers around here. i found that it was the post nirvana 16 year olds that loved it. people that fell in two years too young to catch the smashing poumpkins bug here got Radiohead. and although i love nirvana and the pumpkins, they don't even compare to Radiohead. i'm 20, the bends was released i guess in 1995 or thereabouts. im not too sure off hand, but OKcomputer was released in 1997 wasnt it? so they fit right into my mid teens. by the time i got OKcomputer i had been throuhg the whole "alanis obsession" that infected us in 1996/7. OKcomputer rapidly became one of my all time favourite albums. but they didnt have enough new material for me. so i went back to Pablo Honey. not quite what the later two albums were, but very solid all the same. so, you asked do people in the UK like radiohead? i'm in Ireland, so it's pretty much the same thing (i will admit that reluctantly on occasion:-) poeple here tend to have some respect for Thom, Jonny, Colin and Ed. respect for the talent of a band making the music they want to make. in college circles, they are much loved. just about everyone i know loves them, or respects them. as for Creep.....that song is class. but it is the overplayed track. you know, it's the one that everyone knows. Radiohead never perform this live anymore. and have vowed never to do so again! so when KIDA came out, i was a little apprehensive. i did of course buy it the day it was put on the shelves in HMV! i went to the concert, and yet again decided that this band go from strength to strength, and yet again i applied taht term.....favourite! GARRET NP- Radiohead, Creep accoustic (this is of the "so VERY special" variety, and appears on the My Iron Lung EP) ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 23 Feb 2001 19:17:21 -0600 From: "Dave and Beth Fairall" Subject: COMPOSITION, NOT QUITE Subject: Re: Grammy controversy - NJC Jerry, my good and dear friend, I certainly accept that there are a wide variety of opinions and I respect the disagreement on Eminem , I used to be there too. So I say this in the very best of possible ways: I am getting tired of selective quoting of Eminem's lyrics, out of the context of all of the words and all of the mixes. (I am also tired of people who say 'I don't like rap and I sure don't like Eminem' which you didn't say Jerry but we have heard it here. People who learned nothing from Dylan's 'don't criticise what you don't understand.' I know in your case Jerry you are not making a blanket condemnation of rap, since we have talked about this off list.) My usual comparison for Eminem is to Oliver Stone's "Natural Born Killers" which one could argue glorifies violence or one could argue, does hold up a mirror to the total cultural violence in our society. When I hear Eminem saying "touch that again, I'll kill you" I'm never sure if that is his original work or he is merely quoting the way thousands of parents will be talking to their children while in the check out line of the supermarkets today... and is he expressing his anger at being raised that way. I know that selective quoting of Eminem's lyrics is going to make the dude look bad. But could someone please print out the lyrics of: the Kingston Trio's "Tom Dooley" ("stabbed her with my knife") Bob Marley's "I Shot the Sheriff" Steely Dan's "Go Back, Jack and Do it Again" Could someone give the story of Wagner's The Ring Cycle and leave out the racism, the misogny, the repeated incest, the implied beastiality, the endless violence? Eminem is very engaged with the gay community. You hear very few negative comments about Eminem hear in Michigan where was born and raised and lives. When he says "fag" as offensive as that word is he is not using it in the way that we (as gay men) hear it. I find Dr. Dre's comments as quoted in Rolling Stone, "I don't care about people like that" referring to gays as disturbing. I found John Stewart's tired and predicatable gay jokes offensive. I find Will and Grace tiresome and stereotyped beyond belief, and if anything is fag, it is not Will, but the Stepin Fetchit character of Jack - while I admire the actor, the role is a 1,000 times more offensive to me as a portrayal of gay men than anything that is on any Eminem album. The point of Eminem's work is in the song Stan, often quoted out of context but take the whole thing: the loser very clearly is Stan, who cannot differeniate fantasy from reality and thinks the "gangsta life" is real and that the act is real... Marshall Mathers is actually throwing it back in the face of everyone who thinks there is truth or answers in violence and fantasies of 'living the life.' That said, I think I am about done saying what I have to say about Eminem because it is what it is and we shall see whether he stands the test of time. I did like his acceptance of his rap garmmy when he thanked those who heard what his album was, and what it was not... I am glad not everyone is a fan of his because then I wouldn't be able to buy his albums without a longer wait in line... and The Em boy has got a lot of people talking. About important things. And I think that is what he is really aiming at. (the Rev) Vince, who wishes Michael Yarbrough was here to help me out... ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 23 Feb 2001 19:53:00 -0500 From: Vince Lavieri Subject: Re: George Harrison's Birthday!!! Feb. 25th NJC Thanks Rose for pointing out George's birthday... he was always my favorite Beatle (the Rev) Vince ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 23 Feb 2001 19:50:23 EST From: AzeemAK@aol.com Subject: The Grammies njc I've been following this debate with great interest. One thing that struck me was the claim that Madonna & co. were afraid to say what they really think of Eminem, or were defending him to appear hip, or whatever. That may be so, but couldn't it also mean that, um, they think he's good and are against attempts to ban him? We attempt to read people's minds at our peril. I'd also be very surprised if what he's saying is any worse than what's been said by countless other rap crews; there's the whole argument about inhabiting a character, as Ice-T did with "Cop Killer", which struck me as fairly obviously a character piece. When Randy Newman writes a song from the viewpoint of some kind of bogeyman, he's hailed as a satirical genius, when some others do it, it's a different story. This doesn't mean I'm defending Eminem's lyrics, but nor am I condemning them; even the selection of quotes that were included in the note that Jerry posted from his other list don't tell the whole story; they're certainly pretty grisly - however, the writer says they're uncensored, but they're also completely out of context, and thus difficult to evaluate; context is important (if you just take "Short people got no reason to live", it doesn't look too pretty), no matter how extreme a quote from them may look. You could take the bit at the end of Stan, where Slim is giving some fair and honest advice to his crazed fan, and that does broaden the range of the track - - it throws into relief the more out there stuff about Stan killing his girlfriend and generally being psychotic. Now, I have no idea how some of the quotes Jerry posted could be contextualised so as to make them more "acceptable" - so that's why I, personally, will not condemn them. Just as an aside, Dido has said in several interviews that while she was touring with him, he was very kind and considerate - quite a gentleman, in fact! Anyway, as Jerry and others have posted some interesting articles about the Grammies, here's a fairly acid (and short) piece from today's Guardian on the very same subject; it's by John Patterson. Enjoy, Azeem in London A little Grammy trivia quiz: in 1989, the Grammys inaugurated their new hard-rock category. Who won? Metallica? Jane's Addiction? AC/DC? Iggy Pop? All were nominated, and each deserved to win. But none of these hotel-trashing, eardrum- perforating noiseniks stood a chance before the mighty, bulldozing, hairy-chested heavy-metallurgy of . . . Jethro Tull! The boos from the audience proved once again the Grammys' almost Martian out-of-touchness. Despite being founded in 1959, the organisation totally missed out on the birth of rock'n'roll and failed to nominate Elvis Presley until he was almost dead. They preferred Rosemary Clooney. And, although they managed to give four awards to the Beatles in the 1960s, that was about as close as the organisation was prepared to get to the most turbulent decade of the postwar era. As race riots burned inner-city neighbourhoods to the ground, and Vietnam threatened to plunge the US into civic chaos, Grammy-voters were favouring Henry Mancini's Days of Wine and Roses, Herb Alpert's A Taste of Honey and the Fifth Dimension's inane Up, Up and Away (In My Beautiful Balloon). So, no Grammy for Street Fighting Man? Of course not. The Rolling Stones had to wait until 1995 before winning. Bob Dylan got more of the same, and Jimi Hendrix had to wait until the worms had dined a full three decades on his remains. Add to this the 1990 Milli Vanilli debacle, and the threat of boycotts after Tony Bennett and the Three Tenors won in 1995, and you have a quite remarkable record of cluelessness. So I think we should be pleased about Eminem and Sir Elton John's much- discussed musical summit. It's not often the Grammys get people talking. Unless it's to squawk: "Oh, turn this shit off - Temptation Island's on Channel Nine!" ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 23 Feb 2001 16:55:09 -0800 From: Lee Ashley Subject: njc hello....again.... Hi listmembers, I subscribed to the list a few years ago, but went travelling and have finally settled for a while in Vancouver, BC. It's nice to see so many familiar names still here....am enjoying the grammy discussion...missed the folk alliance events, due to getting settled. If any of you are ever in Vancouver, please call. I'd be pleased to show you around. Blessings, Lee ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 24 Feb 2001 02:01:00 -0000 From: philipf@tinet.ie Subject: Re: Joni and Tim - Spider Robinson column, Globe and Mail Nice article thanks for passing it on. I had no idea that Joni toured as an opening act with Tim Hardin. Philip np Innocence Mission - Lakes Of Canada ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 24 Feb 2001 02:37:31 -0000 From: philipf@tinet.ie Subject: Re: Grammies Despite all the hype and product placement (when does the U2 tour start) I thought it was great entertainment with a lot of variety and a funny presenter. I watched the show with my nine your old and we had a lot of fun and arguments about the acts. Joni looked great. But the Coltrane joke went over like a lead balloon. That stuff about old music being better than new music is so tiresome. Destiny's Child are as good as anything John Coltrane ever did and A Love Supreme is a very over rated record. Philip np Nico Case - Peel session ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 23 Feb 2001 21:06:24 -0800 From: Michael Paz Subject: Re: Joni to appear at Mardi Gras! Jim and/or Jay and D.J. Thanks for the heads up. The LAST thing in ife I wanna do right now is go to the French Quarter for anything, but i got a call from The Neville Brothers tonight and they want me to come work the shows at house of Blues on Sunday and Mosay nights. I will make it a point to walk up the street a few blocks and check it out. Can't wait to see it. Michael (almost in the thick of it, but still lurking in the swamps) on 2/22/01 5:33 PM, Jim and/or Jay at jimjackson@mediaone.net wrote: > Alert to those of you who live in New Orleans or are planning on > visiting for Mardi Gras: > > My friend Gabriel Q is an incredible artist who makes unique > hand-crafted masks in the Venetian tradition. He has been a Joni > appreciator and this year has been particularly enraptured with Hejira. > He crafted a mask of Joni's face with her classic french beret and two > lines of synthetic blonde hair on either side of the mask. It struck me > as both a bit humorous yet respectful in its depiction of our Joan. > > The mask will be shown and is available for sale (not sure of price) at > the Quarter Moon Gallery, 918 Royal Street. Stop by for a look if you're > there! And have fun "earning" those beads! > > D.J. from Cambridge, Ma ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 23 Feb 2001 21:15:12 -0800 From: Michael Paz Subject: Re: Hawaiian Taxi on 2/23/01 5:11 AM, Kakki at KakkiB@worldnet.att.net wrote: > I think we should think about renting a Kailua beach house and having a > Hawaiian Jonifest one of these days. Easier to pull in Hell, John, Pat, > Joseph, Rainbow and the rest of the Oceania JMDL'ers, too ;-) WHOO HOO! Welcome home Kakki!!!! Sign me up. I am freezing my ass off her tonight and and pale as can be. Hope you have a fabulous time even though I am insanely jealous (MOI???). Mardi Gras is in full force tonight. One of sister Ashara's sons landed in New Orleans (after driving all night) and local reports indicate that his krewe is terrorizing the french quarter as we speak. Love Paz ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 23 Feb 2001 21:21:13 -0800 From: Michael Paz Subject: Re: Wayne & Brian (NJC) WoW maybe Brian will paly here at home more. Which reminds me, the Fellowship has NEVER player New Orleans even tho most of them are from Louisiana. I had lunch with a friend from Loyola U. that tells me he booked an all star jazz ensemble to play Loyola soon with Brian on drums. Iam SO there. Love Paz P.S. Thanks so much for your essay on "What I did this winter". Wish I coulda been there. on 2/23/01 7:43 AM, Steve Dulson at steve@psitech.com wrote: > The LA Times today reports that Wayne Shorter will be doing > a "farewell to the west coast" tour (before he moves from LA > to Florida) with a band that includes Brian Blade on drums. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 23 Feb 2001 21:27:36 -0800 From: Michael Paz Subject: Re: Facelift + Joni's story Bob- I am on your list as well (even tho it is an uncomfortable topic for me) and it reminded me of something mom use to say. I have a client on Bourbon Street who is a New Orleans icon and she has had more surgery than anyone in history and it shows. Mom use to say that "one of these it's all gonna come falling down, but that's ok she can just take it all back up to the top and tie it in a nice bow". Use to crack me up everytime no matter how many times I heard her say it. Paz on 2/23/01 9:21 AM, SCJoniGuy@aol.com at SCJoniGuy@aol.com wrote: > You can put me in the list of those who don't think Joni has had surgery. > Having been in her company, I am positive that her aura and radiance give the > illusion of a younger person as opposed to something artificial. I feel that > Joni values her years, and admires people like Georgia O'Keefe that have the > signs of truth & beauty about them. > > I wanna share her comments..this was very much synchronicity as I was just > burning this CD for Gary Zack this morning. It was from KSCA Radio, the day > that TI came out in 1994. As an intro to Facelift, she had the following > conversation: > > Joni: "I'll play you a brand new song. This is a song called "Facelift" > (tuning guitar)...actually the full title of it is, um, "Happiness Is the > BEST Facelift"...I played, just for the fun of it, at Milton Berle's 86th > birthday not that long ago, and it was really great because it was a roundup > of all the old comics, Steve Allen, I mean ALL of the old comics, old & > young, ya know, and um, I looked out at that audience, in Hollywood here, ya > know, if you hit middle age it's pretty much time to go for the old 'nip & > tuck', but, these were like (laughing)...Robbie's stroking his beard because > it's kind of a private joke on that one, but I mean I saw faces there that > had been lifted one too many times, y'know what I mean, it's like, > (uncontrollable laughter)...but this doesn't really have much to do with > that, um...Have you ever seen it when, with the tattooed eyebrows, where the > eyebrows are like, long gone, they've gone up into the scalp > somewhere...(Joni now laughing hysterically), and the navel is appearing in > the chin...."(begins to play Facelift) > > A transcription can't do this mini-monologue justice, Joni's routine had me > laughing out loud the first time I heard it. > > Anyway, given her making fun of the Hollywood facelift types, unless I hear > it from Joni herself, I would say she has not had one. > > Bob > > NP: Joni, Facelift from KSCA 1994 Interview ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 23 Feb 2001 22:28:59 EST From: RK1THXguy@aol.com Subject: **2 against nature - NJC willy100@indosat.net.id writes: << I dunno, maybe I'm getting old and cold and settled in my ways here ...I was listening to 2AN today and to be honest, I turned it off thinking I'm bored >> Willy my friend -- I don't know ya' - but I'm 54 and let me tell you, 2AN is anything but boring. You need to listen to it turned up on a damn good stereo so's ya kin hear all the gorgeous, brilliant, funky subtleties - AND - start by first playin' the title track - let that percolatin' groove get hold o' yo' soul my man - listen loud and strong - it'll have ya' groovin' like Mr. Natural silkin' down Broadway with Bernice on one arm and Ramona on the utha'!! Then listen to the whole damned thing thru from the beginnin' (really drink in the beautiful instrumental fade out on Negative Girl) ridin' off on the crestin' wave into the Hollywood sunset on the drivin' back beat of 'West of Hollywood' - then go round one more time by playin' Cousin Dupree again (even louder) -as an encore finale'. If ya' hasn't shaked ya' ass off by then my friend - well then - all's I kin say is yup - sorry my man - ya's gettin' old. But I'm sure those that know's ya' still luv's ya!! ;-) Now how's about a kiss fo ya kuzin DuPREEEE !! ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 23 Feb 2001 23:28:55 EST From: TreyCozy@aol.com Subject: Re: Grammy controversy - NJC When it comes down to it, isn't "controversial art" all about individual responsibility?? For example, I find myself to be a responsible person who (in most cases) knows right from wrong. I can listen to Eminem, appreciate his talent, and not go out and "stab fags". Similarly, I can watch "Natural Born Killers", appreciate it for the shocking film it is, but still ultimately decide against launching my own cross-country killing spree. It seems all the hub-bub boils down to simply this: There is a fear that all of the young and impressionable will be induced into creating destructive lives filled with profanity, disrespect, and violence. It's not so much whether the subject matter is ART as what it may cause people to do. Right? I've listened to Eminem. I haven't changed. I saw "Natural Born Killers". Can barely remember it, to be honest. Like a gun, the wrong material in the wrong hands can be fatal. Not everyone shares the notion that a song is a just a song -- a movie is just a movie. It's power. There is no denying that. It all comes down to responsibility (or lack thereof, which seems to be the case...) Trey Ellett ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 24 Feb 2001 00:12:15 -0500 From: "patrick leader" Subject: RE: Joni and Tim - Spider Robinson column, Globe and Mail, also facelifts catherine: i thought this was a very cool story. thanks for catching it. i was a little nervous reading it; as it began i thought it was going to document bad behaviour by joni (which we have heard of, though mercifully rarely). but this was great, righteous anger in a righteous cause. the kind of joni story you end up treasuring, just as spider robinson did. for the record, spider robinson is a very successful, though somewhat midlevel science fiction writer. he's mostly known for a series of short story collections taking place in and around 'o'callaghan's saloon', a fictional meeting spot for humans and aliens in a far future. high humor quotient. very entertaining. he also wrote, with his wife jeanne who was a modern dancer, a series called something like the 'stardance' series. the near-future premise is that a character, a talented dancer who can't continue her career on earth for some medical reason, emigrates to the satellites (most near-future sci fi assumes we'll have satellite colonies) and founds the first zero-gravity dance company. this somehow becomes important when aliens come to the solar system; apparently dance is the only communication. or something like that. i don't remember the series well, but i do remember beautiful writing about dance, which is extremely rare in every corner of literature i've sampled. even sci fi, go figure subject veer to facelifts. i'm glad that so many are sure that joni hasn't had work done, and treasure her for her true face. i don't either, and i treasure as well. but just two years ago when there was a cool new york times sunday magazine article about her, there was so much negativity and trauma about the blunt, true-to-her-age photo that accompanied it. i thought the photo was gorgeous, but i do have to say, we certainly are a schizophrenic list. sometimes... patrick np - toby twining - shaman >-----Original Message----- >From: owner-joni@jmdl.com [mailto:owner-joni@jmdl.com]On Behalf Of >Catherine McKay >Sent: Thursday, February 22, 2001 10:57 PM >To: Jonilist >Subject: Joni and Tim - Spider Robinson column, Globe and Mail > > >Here is an item that appeared in today's Globe and >Mail. I don't know about people named "Spider", but >this is kinda cool. > >Follow the link, or see text copied in below. > >http://www.globeandmail.com/gam/Commentary/20010222/COSPIDER.html > >Ballad of the rude Canadian >Jean Chritien's recent travels may have confirmed >Canada's genteel stereotype, but the first Canuck >I ever met was a holy terror >SPIDER ROBINSON > >Thursday, February 22, 2001 > > >I've been waiting more than 30 years for an excuse to >tell this story in print. But perhaps I'd better just >get it told, because who knows whether I, or its >protagonist, will wake up tomorrow? > >Our Prime Minister's recent visits to China and the >White House were marked, by all accounts, by excessive >politeness. Members of his Team Canada party even >applauded when Chinese officials carted off some >Canadian students who used the occasion of the visit >to protest against conditions in Tibet. "That's not >the Canadian way," the visitors explained. For the >zillionth time, we were reminded that most of the >world knows Canada only as The Place Where They're All >Polite. And this reminded me, as it always does, of >the first Canadian I ever met, telling a crowd of >admirers they were lower than weasel smegma. > >I'm guessing it was 1968. In those days, there briefly >existed on this planet a phenomenon I despair of >explaining to the modern consumer, called "folk >music." Before it all blew over, it offered sporadic >employment to people such as Tom Rush, Tim Buckley, >Phil Ochs, Fred Neil, Judy Collins, John Koerner, >James Taylor and Bob Dylan, some of whom went on to >become legitimate musicians. > >One of the best songwriters in folk was Tim Hardin. >He's not the above-mentioned first Canadian I ever >met; he was American. His biggest commercial success >was a song called If I Were a Carpenter,a hit for >Bobby Darin. He wrote the folk classic Reason to >Believe,and a haunting jazz ballad called Misty Roses. >He was one of the best performers of his songs, with a >smoky, fragile voice and guitar playing as crisp as >breadsticks. He seemed poised to become one of those >rare folksingers to earn a living. Then someone gave >him some heroin. > >By the time of which I speak, Mr. Hardin had already >flamed out at least once -- he'd actually fallen >asleep onstage at the Royal Albert Hall. Now, >chastened and fresh out of rehab, he was ready to try >a career-reviving comeback. A tour was booked that >brought him to my large state university. A humble, >low-key folkie tour: just Mr. Hardin, and an unknown >solo singer for a warmup act. > >I may as well confess this like a man: I was a >folksinger myself, in those days. I've been completely >rehabilitated through a 12-step program -- swear to >God -- but back then, I was one of the first on line >for Tim Hardin tickets. > >Then, before the concert actually happened, everything >changed. > >Not for Mr. Hardin, but for his warmup act. Lightning >struck, and set her ablaze. A shy folkie with the >obligatory long blond hair, hailing from some place so >nowhere it wasn't even in the United States, she >unexpectedly became a pop star overnight. So when Tim >Hardin's big evening finally arrived, the house was >packed . . . but nearly everyone had come to hear this >Joni Mitchell chick. > >She was wonderful, of course, and held the huge crowd >spellbound, in the palm of her hand, and when she was >through, the standing ovation seemed to go on forever. >Then Tim Hardin came out on stage, and Ms. Mitchell >left . . . and so did a good quarter of the audience. > >The doors of this dark gymnasium, enormous ones, were >on either side of the stage, and the lobby outside was >brightly lit. So the policy was to keep those doors >shut while someone was performing onstage. Otherwise, >you were shining a big light into the audience's face, >wrecking the ambience. Those wishing to enter or leave >were required by ushers to wait until the >song-in-progress was over. > >This is good policy when only a few people want to go >through the doors. When many people try to leave at >once, however, the result is large milling crowds on >either side of the stage. > >As far as they were concerned, the show was over. The >star had already performed, and this blockage at the >door was just some temporary screwup. They made no >attempt to keep silent -- didn't even bother keeping >their voices down. Some shouted, the better to be >heard over that guy onstage nattering on about >carpenters and tinkers. Cigarettes were lit, some >containing tobacco; raucous laughter rose above the >general hubbub. > >Tim soldiered on. He finished his first song, to a >smattering of applause, watched the doors open and a >flood of people race to escape his music. He began >another song, watched more chattering crowds form at >his left and right as he sang, and flee the moment >they were allowed to. He started a third tune; same >result. > >He stopped in midsong, unslung his guitar, leaned >closer to the mike, said, very softly, "How would you >like it if somebody pissed in your canteen?" and left. >Some folks didn't even notice. > >But they sure noticed when an avenging angel swept >down from the bleachers, trailing blond hair like >fire. Ms. Mitchell sprang onstage, grabbed the mike, >and for the next five minutes, she cursed that crowd. >We were barbarians, pigs, reptile excrement; she >profoundly regretted having performed for us, and >would tell every act she knew not to come here because >we didn't deserve to hear music; she maligned us and >our relatives and ancestors until she ran out of >breath, and stormed offstage. Leaving behind hundreds >of baffled people . . . and a handful like me, >cheering even louder than we had for her songs. > >Mr. Hardin cut that tour short and went back to >heroin. His performance at Woodstock the following >year was cut from the movie. It took him another 10 >horrid years to die, at 39. At his final gig in 1979, >they say he just played one song -- Hoagy Carmichael's >Georgia -- over and over. > >I've been waiting 33 years for a chance to thank the >first Canadian I ever met for her magnificent rudeness >-- not to mention her astonishing command of invective >-- and now I've finally got it done. If there's ever >anything I can do for you, Ms. Mitchell, I am yours to >command. >Spider Robinson's CD Belaboring the Obvious, featuring >original music and readings, is available at >http://www.spiderrobinson.com; his story collection By >Any Other Name has just been published by Baen Books. >Get your free @yahoo.ca address at http://mail.yahoo.ca ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 24 Feb 2001 00:27:16 -0500 From: "Sue Cameron" Subject: Another Joni mention on Letterman Tonight's Letterman - Dave says to Paul "What was the name of Joni Mitchell's second album?" Paul doesn't have the answer and the subject is changed. n.p. Top Ten list Sue Cameron ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 23 Feb 2001 22:02:12 -0800 From: "Kakki" Subject: Catching up (njc) Almost through reading the 300 emails I returned to and am happy to hear Jack made it through the operation - geez what a Valentine's Day! Happy belated birthday to Rose, our photo goddess! I do have a Nikon F but don't use it much because it weighs (or feels like it weighs) about 8 lbs. plus it is in fragile (but good working) condition. Wish I could have lugged it safely along to Hawaii, though. Steve and Kate - I loved your accounts of the Folk Alliance! It sounded completely magical and how fun to have a minifest with Roberto, Wally K and Stephen! Wish I could have been there. Vancouver is the most beautiful city in the world, IMO and I would have swooned to have been taking high tea or martinis at The Empress in Victoria! Beth asked about Joni "landmarks" in L.A. As Paz mentioned Daily Grill and Les Deux have been well-publicized in L.A. magazine and other places. I had a wonderful night last Saturday at Les Deux with visiting NYC jmdlers Stephen and Rusty. We were all joking that Joni probably never frequents her old haunts now that the word is out. But they are great places to meet and dine, regardless. Lindsay and I are scheduled to have lunch at Daily Grill this Sunday on our way to see Jonatha at Borders in Santa Monica - anyone want to meet us, let me know. Kakki NP: Come To Me - Cecelio and Kapono ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 23 Feb 2001 22:26:51 -0800 (PST) From: Penny Subject: Upcoming Joni cover alert - Ingrid Graudins Oops! I forgot to mention that when Brian S. and I were lucky enough to visit with Jonatha Brooke in Portland the other day, she told us the reason Ingrid Graudins isn't going to be with her on this upcoming tour is because Ingrid is busy right now putting the finishing touches on her own CD of covers. Jonatha said Ingrid is doing one of Joni's, but couldn't remember what song. If anyone knows the url for Ingrid's website (Jonatha told us but I still can't find it), maybe we can see which one she's doing - - all Jonatha could remember was it's not Amelia. (Nor is it another BSN) And hey Fred Simon, with a smile on her face, Jonatha was quick to give you full credit for introducing her to Ingrid and had nice words for your music too! ;-) Hey, you would probably know Ingrid's url - when you have a free moment, could you check to see if the track listing for the covers CD on there? Happy weekend all, Penny Get email at your own domain with Yahoo! Mail. http://personal.mail.yahoo.com/ ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 23 Feb 2001 23:35:37 -0600 From: Kate Subject: yeah, we're gorgeous > and now Mags wonders aloud: > > could it be that our Joni exemplifies the radiant beauty found in Canadian women? > Yeah Mags, that's it. Ha! Canadian Kate, who thought Joni looked amazingly young and beautiful close up (I was surprised) when she met Emil at the Mendel. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 24 Feb 2001 01:52:23 -0500 From: "Victor Johnson" Subject: Re: Critical Praise (NJC) Don wrote: Now, is this to slag Eminem? No ... it's only to say that he's merely an orator ... NOT a musician. So it doesn't surprise me in the least that Steely Dan was picked by a panel of musicians -- regardless of sales. Thank you, that was one of the points I was trying to make...that Eminem had no chance of winning album of the year regardless of whatever "controversy" ensued, nor should he have. Secondly, I think it possible to agree with Vince's description/characterization of Emimem, appreciate his work for what it is(or not), but still choose not to listen to him and therefore not pick him, another reason why he didn't win album of the year. The comparison of Emimem to "Natural Born Killers" works really well I think. But the biggest difference for me between his work and some other artists who have been brought up(Bob Marley, Steely Dan, Stones, and Beatles) is that with these others artists, as Don put it, are musicians and write music that people listen to over and over and sing all over the world, and cover their songs. Now I'm not slaggin Emimem either, but I can't imagine that his songs are ones that people would listen to all the time or walk down the street singing, or play at a wedding. I imagine they're more like movies I have seen like "NBK", "Trainspotting", or "Saving Private Ryan", movies that I found disturbing but thoroughly enjoyed and got something out of, though I probably wouldn't want to see them again. Victor Johnson http://www.cdbaby.com/victorjohnson "Just beyond the morning falls the river of your dreams, Escaping from the day these wild creatures run away." Victor Johnson ------------------------------ End of JMDL Digest V2001 #91 **************************** ------- Post messages to the list by clicking here: mailto:joni@smoe.org Unsubscribe by clicking here: mailto:joni-digest-request@smoe.org?body=unsubscribe ------- Siquomb, isn't she?