From: les@jmdl.com (JMDL Digest) To: joni-digest@smoe.org Subject: JMDL Digest V2001 #90 Reply-To: joni@smoe.org Sender: les@jmdl.com Errors-To: les@jmdl.com Precedence: bulk Unsubscribe: mailto:joni-digest-request@smoe.org?body=unsubscribe Archives: http://www.smoe.org/lists/joni Websites: http://www.jmdl.com http://www.jonimitchell.com JMDL Digest Friday, February 23 2001 Volume 2001 : Number 090 The 'Official' Joni Mitchell Homepage, created by Wally Breese, can be found at http://www.jonimitchell.com. It contains the latest news, a detailed bio, Original Interviews, essays, lyrics and much much more. The JMDL website can be found at http://www.jmdl.com and contains interviews, articles, the member gallery, archives, and much more. ========== TOPICS and authors in this Digest: -------- RE: Grammies ["Deb Messling" ] Re: onlyJMDL Digest V2001 #61 [StDoherty@aol.com] Lotto Update [SCJoniGuy@aol.com] RE: Grammies [Brian Gross ] Hawaiian Taxi ["Kakki" ] unfortunate names ["Mike Hicks" ] Re: this flight today ["Mike Hicks" ] Re: FACELIFT (nip here, tuck there...) ["Mike Hicks" ] re: Facelift ["c Karma" ] Re: looking younger [Kate ] note in LA Times [Jennymac48@aol.com] shawn colvin's new album (njc) [Alison E ] Re: Facelift + Joni's story [SCJoniGuy@aol.com] Re: Hawaiian Taxi [SCJoniGuy@aol.com] Re: Hawaiian Taxi [SCJoniGuy@aol.com] RE: looking younger ["Chris Marshall" ] George Harrison's Birthday!!! Feb. 25th NJC [RoseMJoy@aol.com] RE: looking younger [jan gyn ] Grammy shmammy [Tyler Hewitt ] Grammy controversy - NJC [Jerry Notaro ] Re: George Harrison's Birthday!!! Feb. 25th NJC [Randy Remote ] Eminem [Randy Remote ] Critical Praise [BachelorNumero2@aol.com] The day the music died ["william" ] Re: Critical Praise (NJC) [Don Rowe ] Re: Hawaiian Taxi ["Kakki" ] With friends of spirit who drink and ... laud ["william" ] Re: Folk Alliance (NJC). [Steve Dulson ] Shawn Update NJC ["Christopher J. Treacy" ] Re: radiohead creep - njc ["hell" ] Re: Joni at the Grammy's, and a great big thanks! ["hell" ] Re: Facelift + Joni's story [mags ] Fwd: srv bit on the onion (NJC) [jan gyn ] Re: Hawaiian Taxi [Gary Zack ] ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Fri, 23 Feb 2001 06:38:09 -0500 From: "Deb Messling" Subject: RE: Grammies To be completely accurate, they did flash her win when they did an audience shot of her. But I never saw her name in one of those sidebars they periodically ran. Actually, it pisses me off that her category and MOST of the grown-up categories were not televised. They can't televise a classical award? And they pretend to be about musical significance? What a crock. > Puzzling that they never mentioned her win....I mean they > mentioned Best Bolivian Polka Album and everthing else... - ----------------------------------- Deb Messling "I like cats. They give the home a heartbeat." ~Joni Mitchell - ----------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 23 Feb 2001 07:03:34 EST From: StDoherty@aol.com Subject: Re: onlyJMDL Digest V2001 #61 In a message dated 2/23/01 3:18:32 AM Eastern Standard Time, les@jmdl.com writes: << Asides: Performance highlight for me was Moby/Jill Scott/Blue Man Group but I also have to say that Christina Aguilera was the surprise of the night for me. I was truly entertained, and I'm not talking about the combination of cleavage and pyrotechnics. She can sing. >> Totally agree. I never even heard Christina Aguilera ... have to say, lumped her into the Britney group and when she came down in the basketball I thought it was all show. I was floored that it appeared to be music that I heard and some energy, Now I'm not rushng off to pick up her latest CD, but I was suprised. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 23 Feb 2001 08:40:26 EST From: SCJoniGuy@aol.com Subject: Lotto Update Lots more guesses coming in, still a lot of you that haven't guessed. I s'pose that's OK, but how tough could it be to click "Reply", enter 3 digits, and click "Send"? ;~) For those of you who missed the original hubbub, it's a giveaway for "Covers, Volume 14". Check out "Joni Undercover" on the jMDL for more details. To win your copy, just guess a 3 digit number. That's it. Deadline Saturday night. Anyway, going into the clubhouse turn, Steve Anderson's still "Top of the World, Ma"... Still no guess from Vad...or Evian. Sorry I don't post this as NJC...I s'pose it is by definition, but I want to give everybody a chance to play... Bob NP: Mark Knopfler, "do america" ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 23 Feb 2001 06:38:45 -0800 (PST) From: Brian Gross Subject: RE: Grammies - --- Deb Messling wrote: > To be completely accurate, they did flash her win when they did an audience > shot of her. But I never saw her name in one of those sidebars they > periodically ran. Actually, it pisses me off that her category and MOST of > the grown-up categories were not televised. They can't televise a classical > award? And they pretend to be about musical significance? What a crock. In the 3 hours (5PM to 8 PM EST) prior to the CBS broadcast, VH1 was broadcasting live from the Staples Center. They showed a number of the 'other' awards, but neither Joni's nor Vince Mendoza's wins were among those that were shown. Pretty disappointing not to see either of them accept their awards. Very nice, though, to have both of them win. This win makes my framed BSN limited edition even more special!!!!!!!! Take care everyone, especially you, Jack. And don't forget to listen to the docs. Brian, stuck inside now that there's 15 cm of new snow on the ground outside ===== "No paper thin walls, no folks above No one else can hear the crazy cries of love" yeah, right ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 23 Feb 2001 05:11:04 -0800 From: "Kakki" Subject: Hawaiian Taxi Aloha, Just returned on the red-eye from Honolulu after a wonderful but much too short time. Thanks to Bob's research, I easily found Hawaiian artist Del Beazley's album "World's Got To Choose" which includes his cover of "Big Yellow Taxi." It is an absolute GEM! Perfect meld of Joni and Island style. He changes a few lines here and there like "charge all the Bruddahs six and a half just to see 'em" and "spots on my Papayas" and "the blue and white took away my old man." Border's on Ala Moana had a big reference book that lists every song ever recorded by Hawaiian artists and I checked it for other Joni covers but only found one other - "Raised on Robbery" by Carole Kai in 1978. Couldn't find it so there's another obscure one to track down. I hadn't been back to Oahu for more than a day in 25 years and they have indeed paved paradise. The one lane roads I remember are now 4 lane and the 2 lane roads are now 8! The traffic is worse than L.A. in parts but the vibe is still magical and there is much beauty intact. Other musical moments - Henry Kapono and band at Duke's on Waikiki beach and getting lost and ending up next to Bette Midler's high school (Farrington). Oh and I did stay in at the hotel to watch the Grammys (YAHOO!!) Loved Joni's impish grin when the old timers Steely Dan won and could only wonder what she was thinking. She and Carlos had the most stage presence and grace of the night, too. I think we should think about renting a Kailua beach house and having a Hawaiian Jonifest one of these days. Easier to pull in Hell, John, Pat, Joseph, Rainbow and the rest of the Oceania JMDL'ers, too ;-) Kakki NP: "Big Yellow Taxi" - Del Beazley ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 22 Feb 2001 17:52:21 -0500 From: "Mike Hicks" Subject: unfortunate names How about Wright Black and Pink Green. Mike ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 22 Feb 2001 17:49:34 -0500 From: "Mike Hicks" Subject: Re: this flight today > From: "joseph tischner" > To: joni@smoe.org > Subject: this flight today > Date: Tue, 13 Feb 2001 23:35:17 -0500 > Reply-to: "joseph tischner" > happened upon Joni's biography by Hinton(?)in a bookstore on the way to the Do you find this a tough read? I had to stop many times, go back, and try to digest or figure out some things he said. It took me forever to finish it. Mike ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 22 Feb 2001 18:18:57 -0500 From: "Mike Hicks" Subject: Re: FACELIFT (nip here, tuck there...) > To: joni@smoe.org > Date: Thu, 22 Feb 2001 16:57:26 -0500 > Subject: FACELIFT (nip here, tuck there...) > From: "Christopher J. Treacy" > Reply-to: "Christopher J. Treacy" > My Mother and I spoke after the Grammys last night. Unfortunately, I > missed the show due to the fact that I had to be at work serving Chinese > food to the masses of annoying children going to see Penn & Teller around > the corner. Point being, my mom has insisted for a while now that Joni > has had massive amounts of plastic surgery done in order to preserve her > look. Last night's appearence only firmed this up, as she told me Joni > looked great, but undoubtedly 'pinched'. I found this irritating, but as > I've had time to think it over, it's simply not the insane notion I had > originally thought. It's not as though we're all there, seeing JM going > about her day...scratching her ass, blowing her nose, etc. And so, it's > entirely possible Mom's correct (she's a little fixated right now, having > recently decided she should have had a lift years ago, and now she thinks > it's too late). Thoughts? Has Joni drank from the artificial fountain of > youth? > -Chris I don't think so. I saw her in concert last summer (through binoculars), and I thought she had aged very gracefully. Yes, you could tell she's not a spring chicken of course, but she is very beautiful. She looked her natural self to me. Mike ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 23 Feb 2001 07:43:44 -0800 From: Steve Dulson Subject: Wayne & Brian (NJC) The LA Times today reports that Wayne Shorter will be doing a "farewell to the west coast" tour (before he moves from LA to Florida) with a band that includes Brian Blade on drums. - -- ######################################################## Steve Dulson Costa Mesa CA steve@psitech.com "The Tinker's Own" http://www.tinkersown.com "Southern California Dulcimer Heritage" http://members.aol.com/scdulcimer/ "The Living Tradition Concert Series" http://www.thelivingtradition.org/ ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 23 Feb 2001 15:58:08 From: "c Karma" Subject: re: Facelift I have my doubts if Joni actually went under the knife for vanity's sake although she has often written concerns about the aging process ("Sweetbird", "(Happiness is the best)Facelift"). She also wouldn't be the first artist to go the extra mile to maintain her graphic turf. It's not easy being an icon of a generation. Also remember, she and Larry Klein were involved in a rather serious auto accident in the mid-80s, depicted on the cover of "Dog Eat Dog." I don't know if injuries were involved that required facial reconstruction but I do think she looks terrific today, and every bit like her parents. CC "He sees the cars as sets of waves. Sequences of mass and space. He sees the damage in my face. -- JM _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 23 Feb 2001 09:37:58 -0600 From: Kate Subject: Re: looking younger Last year, or was it the year before, on the news it was broadcast that a study had been done proving that if you had sex three times a week, you'd look 15 years younger. Maybe that's Joni's secret? If it's true, I should soon be looking about 3 years old! Kate http://www.connect.ab.ca/~katej ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 23 Feb 2001 11:40:54 EST From: Jennymac48@aol.com Subject: note in LA Times In a Grammys post mortem, the L.A. Times wrote about post ceremoniy parties... "Wierd could have been the theme at the Warner Music Group's bash under a gigantic tent behind the Los Angeles Center Studios, a soundstage complex in downtown LA. The tunnel shaped tent spouted fake flames, was divided into "mood rooms," including a central blue-lit room with a centerpiece of pillar-shaped fish tanks and a bar. The celebration brought out best female country vocal winner Faith Hill and her husband Tim McGraw. Joni Mitchell arrived even brfore the Grammy ceremony was over, cutting out after presenting U2 with the record of the year award." Love this...can't you just hear her..."Klein, let's get the hell outta here, grab some free food and beat the traffic!" As for the plastic surgery thread...when I was standing 6 inches from her face in the Virgin Store, with the glare of daylight on her from the windows, I can tell you there was no trace of work. And believe me I was memorizing, every inch of her face because who knew if this would ever happen to me again. And I know what to look for. I live here and see all of this "work" every day. And if she had something done after I met her, would there be enough time before the tour to be presentable? This was also talked about in the London Times magazine interview. Joni told the interviewer about how her face can be both classic, she then strikes a Greta Garbo pose, and funny just as easily, she makes a face and refers to herself as having "guerning" qualities. She then goes on to say she wouldn't have her face changed. 'Course, that was then and this is now and what the hell do I know? Love, JennyMac ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 23 Feb 2001 09:00:11 -0800 (PST) From: Alison E Subject: shawn colvin's new album (njc) i have heard what is presumably the first single off shawn colvin's new album a couple of times now, on wfuv. it sounds incredible, so far. like classis shawn! i am so excited. i know the release date was bounced around here before, anyone remember it? and the name, please? thanks, alison e. in slc np: wfuv, who just played chelsea morning, who this weekend will be featuring part one of the re-release of george harrison's "all things must pass", originally a three album release, which has apparently been remastered and has new george songs on it. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 23 Feb 2001 12:21:39 EST From: SCJoniGuy@aol.com Subject: Re: Facelift + Joni's story You can put me in the list of those who don't think Joni has had surgery. Having been in her company, I am positive that her aura and radiance give the illusion of a younger person as opposed to something artificial. I feel that Joni values her years, and admires people like Georgia O'Keefe that have the signs of truth & beauty about them. I wanna share her comments..this was very much synchronicity as I was just burning this CD for Gary Zack this morning. It was from KSCA Radio, the day that TI came out in 1994. As an intro to Facelift, she had the following conversation: Joni: "I'll play you a brand new song. This is a song called "Facelift" (tuning guitar)...actually the full title of it is, um, "Happiness Is the BEST Facelift"...I played, just for the fun of it, at Milton Berle's 86th birthday not that long ago, and it was really great because it was a roundup of all the old comics, Steve Allen, I mean ALL of the old comics, old & young, ya know, and um, I looked out at that audience, in Hollywood here, ya know, if you hit middle age it's pretty much time to go for the old 'nip & tuck', but, these were like (laughing)...Robbie's stroking his beard because it's kind of a private joke on that one, but I mean I saw faces there that had been lifted one too many times, y'know what I mean, it's like, (uncontrollable laughter)...but this doesn't really have much to do with that, um...Have you ever seen it when, with the tattooed eyebrows, where the eyebrows are like, long gone, they've gone up into the scalp somewhere...(Joni now laughing hysterically), and the navel is appearing in the chin...."(begins to play Facelift) A transcription can't do this mini-monologue justice, Joni's routine had me laughing out loud the first time I heard it. Anyway, given her making fun of the Hollywood facelift types, unless I hear it from Joni herself, I would say she has not had one. Bob NP: Joni, Facelift from KSCA 1994 Interview ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 23 Feb 2001 12:24:30 EST From: SCJoniGuy@aol.com Subject: Re: Hawaiian Taxi << I easily found Hawaiian artist Del Beazley's album "World's Got To Choose" which includes his cover of "Big Yellow Taxi." It is an absolute GEM! Perfect meld of Joni and Island style. >> Firstly, welcome back Kakki, hope you had a great trip and a good time. I'm excited to hear ol' Del, I love it when someone puts a new spin on an old favorite! Thanks as always for your support of the project. Your copy of #14 is on its way! ;~) Bob ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 23 Feb 2001 12:25:50 EST From: SCJoniGuy@aol.com Subject: Re: Hawaiian Taxi << "Raised on Robbery" by Carole Kai in 1978. Couldn't find it so there's another obscure one to track down. >> Forgot to mention this one...I'm salivating! Bob ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 23 Feb 2001 17:44:54 -0000 From: "Chris Marshall" Subject: RE: looking younger Kate said: > Last year, or was it the year before, on the news it was broadcast that > a study had been done proving that if you had sex three times a week, > you'd look 15 years younger. Maybe that's Joni's secret? > > If it's true, I should soon be looking about 3 years old! No need to brag, dear, it's unbecoming. :-D - --Chris ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 23 Feb 2001 12:52:57 EST From: RoseMJoy@aol.com Subject: George Harrison's Birthday!!! Feb. 25th NJC Just wanted to mention George's birthday. Happy Birthday George!!! My favorite Beatle and fellow Piscean. On my way now to purchase "All Things Must Pass" Favorite track: If Not For You Thanks Alison! Rose in NJ ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 23 Feb 2001 10:02:15 -0800 From: jan gyn Subject: RE: looking younger >Kate said: >> Last year, or was it the year before, on the news it was broadcast that >> a study had been done proving that if you had sex three times a week, >> you'd look 15 years younger. Maybe that's Joni's secret? >> >> If it's true, I should soon be looking about 3 years old! No wonder I look like a 1000! - -jan (who wants a vibrating walker) ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 23 Feb 2001 10:46:47 -0800 (PST) From: Tyler Hewitt Subject: Grammy shmammy RE: It seems that you're saying he didn't stand a chance because there was too much controversy generated by people/media and that the electors should have realized the artistic merit in his work, and that they are somehow to blame for not giving him the award. But how on earth could you really expect his music to not be controversial? - ---------------- No, what I was saying is that the Grammies are so ridiculously focused on middle of the road tastes and record sales that artistic merit doesn't really come into question. A controversy would change this equation a bit, and split the votes of the electors, allowing someone else to win. I really don't think most of the Grammy electors are looking for artistic merit, they are following the same MOR tastes that have always ruled the Grammies. Are the electors to blame for Eminem not getting the award? Of course-they're the ones that voted. Who else is to blame? Do I care? No. I don't expect anything of Eminem's music, not even that it be entertainng (which it isn't, IMO). My last post was about the controversy destroying his chances of winning a Grammy, not about my feelings surounding the controversy. I have no issue at all with controversial art, often some of the most vital, exciting art being made is surrounded in controversy. Of course, often controversial art is total crap as well. Controversy does not equal quality. Where does Eminem fit into this? Got me. I personally don't like his work, but if someone else sees genius in it, that's fine. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 23 Feb 2001 14:10:15 -0500 From: Jerry Notaro Subject: Grammy controversy - NJC From another list I'm on. I found it interesting. Jerry. David Duke's only sin is not putting his anti-Semitism to music. Or so America's music industry would have us believe. In the fanciful world of the Grammys, hate is art and bigotry is funny so long as it's couched in a catchy tune and a rhyme or two. The controversy over popular rapper Eminem (nee Marshall Mathers) came to a head this week as the annual Grammy awards were held in Los Angeles to a worldwide televised audience of over 1 billion. Hundreds rallied outside the ceremony - and Lynne Cheney, the Vice President's wife even added her two cents - to protest Eminem's lyrics glorifying violence against women and gays, and to put to shame Grammy officials who not only invited Eminem to sing at the event, but presented him with three awards for his homophobic and misogynist lyrics. Just before Eminem sang, Michael Greene, president and CEO of the Recording Academy, addressed the assembled crowd, and TV audience, explaining away the industry's defense of the 28-year-old white rapper as an exercise in "tolerance." According to Greene, Eminem's lyrics are simply a reflection of our culture, and certainly no worse than Elvis' hips, or the Beatles' hair: "...music has always been the voice of rebellion -- it's a mirror of our culture, sometimes reflecting a dark and disturbing underbelly obscured from the view of most people of privilege, a militarized zone which is chronicled by the CNN of the inner city -- rap and hip-hop music. We can't edit out the art that makes us uncomfortable. That's what our parents tried to do to Elvis, the Stones and the Beatles... Let's not forget that sometimes it takes tolerance to teach tolerance." Eminem's lyrics (yes, I've listened to the album) certainly are a reflection of society - they are filled with bigotry, hatred, and exhortations to violence. But it is a shocking fallacy to suggest that hate is not hate so long as the sentiment is shared by a larger community. David Duke does not exist in a vacuum, and Timothy McVeigh is not the nation's sole militia sympathizer. Yet we do not exonerate their hate simply because they are members of larger communities of intolerance. Some say the comparison is unfair - Eminem's words are humor, not hate. In the spirit of freedom of speech, here's a sampling of Eminem's lyrics, uncensored. Decide for yourself: - - "my life's like kind of what my wife's like - fucked up after I beat her fucking ass every night" - - "'Slim Anus,' you damn right, Slim Anus I don't get fucked in mine like you two little flaming faggots!" - - "bitch I'm gonna kill you" - - "I don't give a fuck, if this chick was my own mother, I'd still fuck her with no rubber, and cum in side her" - - "My words are like a dagger with a jagged edge, That'll stab you in the head whether you're a fag or lez, Or the homosex, hermaph or a trans-a-vest, Pants or dress - hate fags? The answer's 'yes'" - - "I get more pussy than them dyke bitches total" - - "You want me to fixup lyrics while our president gets his dick sucked... Fuck that. Take drugs. Rape sluts. Make fun of gay clubs. Men who wear makeup." - - "I don't got that bad of a mouth do I? Fuck shit ass bitch, cunt, shoobie-do-doo-wa (woops!) Skeebie-ba-be-wop, a-Christopher Reeves Sonny Bono, skeezes, whores, & hittin' some trees (hey!)" - - "You faggots keep eggin me on til I have you at knifepoint, then you beg me to stop? SHUT UP!" Elvis, the Stones and the Beatles indeed..... ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 23 Feb 2001 11:36:24 -0800 From: Randy Remote Subject: Re: George Harrison's Birthday!!! Feb. 25th NJC Happy to report that George is working on a new studio album, his first in quite some time. Just picked up the newly remastered "All Things Must Pass". In the brief liner notes, George says it was hard not to resist the temptation to remix the album. While I'm glad he did resist, because it would have erased the original intentions of producer Phil Spector, the new CD does little to remove the echo-laden muddy sounding production. Luckily the songs and playing transcend the sound. When you get to the unreleased track at the end of side 1, which IS remixed, it is clear and sparkling, a breath of fresh air. The new version of "My Sweet Lord" (with Harrison's son Dhani on acoustic guitar) is a nice kind of quirky take on his big hit. Thumbs up, 2 CD's of great material for under $20 (if you shop around). Happy birthday, George, and thanks for all the great tunes. RR RoseMJoy@aol.com wrote: > Just wanted to mention George's birthday. Happy Birthday George!!! My > favorite Beatle and fellow Piscean. On my way now to purchase "All Things > Must Pass" Favorite track: If Not For You > Thanks Alison! > Rose in NJ ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 23 Feb 2001 11:46:10 -0800 (PST) From: Don Rowe Subject: Re: Grammy shmammy - --- Tyler Hewitt wrote: > No, what I was saying is that the Grammies are so > ridiculously focused on middle of the road tastes > and > record sales Not to defend the Grammy's ... they're pretty much beyond that -- but if, as you suggest, their awards are passed out on the basis of sales figures, please explain how Steely Dan's "Two Against Nature", which has sold around 800,000 copies ... won the award in competition with M&M, with sales topping 10,000,000? Don Rowe ===== Visit me anytime at http://www.mp3.com/donrowe ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 23 Feb 2001 11:51:30 -0800 From: Randy Remote Subject: Eminem Getting burned out on the subject? Me too, but couldn't resist passing on portions of a column by SF Chronicle writer Rob Morse, which raised some insightful points. The column was titled "A Bad Taste in My Mouth" 2/21/2001 ....... The people at CBS and the Grammys are the ones publicizing Eminem and his hateful lyrics, and for their own gain. And who are we to talk? We've given Eminem more ink in the last few weeks than we've given violence against gays and women in real life. ........Adult fans of Eminem (yes, there are some) say he makes us look at ourselves in the mirror. That's us we see when we read his lyrics, at least those snippets that get in newspapers and maga- zines. Well, I'm sorry, that ain't me, babe. I don't want to slash my own mother's throat, kill my wife or beat up gays. But one thing this controversy reveals is America's hierarchy of hate. Some groups are more bashable than others. The people at CBS and the Grammys have shown it's acceptable to express hatred of women and gays in lyrics. You can even find apologists saying the artist picks on gays because he grew up poor, puny and picked on. That's logical. Why not write hate lyrics about bullies instead? Well, it wouldn't fly. In contemporary boy music, you have to play the bully, and boys bully those who threaten their sexuality. You can be nominated for awards for performing songs about slashing and beating gays and women, but you'll never see a Grammy nomination for a performer who spouts anti-Semitic or anti-black rhetoric. It's still acceptable to express hatred for some people in public. As always, women and gays find themselves on the most-bashable list. I suspect a performer also could get away with hate lyrics about the handicapped, the elderly, and especially the middle-aged. We, the latter, may deserve it. Eminem? Peanut, that's my favorite. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 23 Feb 2001 14:55:16 EST From: BachelorNumero2@aol.com Subject: Critical Praise In a message dated 2/23/01 2:18:31 AM Central Standard Time, les@jmdl.com writes: << Steely Dan - FINALLY!! Recognition for a duo who has consistently turned out some of the most unique and exquisite music ever created! Donald's obvious apathy spoke volumes about the Dan's 'attitude' about the relevance of a Grammy. I do like those irreverent boys! >> AMEN...............although it's ashame their BEST work ("Pretzel Logic", "Aja", "Katy Lied", "Countdown to Ecstasy") was ignored throughout the 70's...... Steely Dan's story is a LOT like Joni's, their music even sounds similiar in places.....(they had many of the same musicians) It's funny how one of their masterpieces "Katy Lied" was critically slammed in 1975 by none other than the infamous Rolling Stone as well as countless other magazines, and is now regarded as one of their best albums...... This eerily sounds familiar.... :) I'm not as crazy about "Two Against Nature" as I am about their mid 70's stuff.......If there are any Dan-curious Joni fans out there, I'd highly recommend: "Pretzel Logic" and or "Katy Lied" ...............it's GREAT stuff..... Phil ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 24 Feb 2001 02:44:32 +0700 From: "william" Subject: The day the music died Forgive me if this is a bit of a rant and moan. Chezus and George Wobblyou Bush has only been in two months. God help America and that's a promise from ............ Better watch out, better take care. (NJC there). I dunno, maybe I'm getting old and cold and settled in my ways here. The Grammys, The Crummies, The Hammies. I bought 2 Against Nature when it arrived here and thought yeh ok. Not a patch on Aja, or Groucho, or The Nightfly. Donald Fagen's Kamakiriad was a nine out of ten in a respectable mag's estimation I remember. Nightfly a ten. I was listening to 2AN today and to be honest, I turned it off thinking I'm bored listening to this. There seemed to be so many recurring earlier riffs and bits that had been put across better in previous albums. Namely Donald Fagen's solo work. 2AN seems like the collection of songs he omitted from the TN and K albums. It won the best album+ACE- Something's afoot. There's an element of that feeling I have about Joni's work too. Productions seem more stretched out, clinically polished, emotionally diluted, less arty more farting around in the studio by other people - ish. California or Sex Kills? I read recently that Lennon was pissed off at George Martin coz his songs were never given the production attention that McCartney's were. Ho+ACE- There is a doG. I often wonder if I'd never heard Joni before 1980, if I'd be the least bit interested in any of her albums thereafter. If WTRF had been her first album would I have been at all interested in purchasing subsequent ones? I buy all her albums out of loyalty for the wonderful early songs she heavenly sent us, as I do with Steely Dan, George Michael, Sting. CSN and The Rolling Stones I did give up on a long time ago. Even that Beatles one, now what was it called? Free as a Bird. Can you sing it all the way through note for note like Day Tripper? These guys just ain't got the edge they used to have. Eminem, dim as a faulty neon light that will burn out right there before us. He speaks highly of my career. As Dylan said, (and there's another one who's sold his soul to Corporatism - how could he? He of all people), I'm getting weary, looking in my baby's eyes, when she's near me, she's so hard to recognise. The cutting edge has gotten somewhat blunt and is in need of resharpening. A minor to A major to A 7th. Don McLean said all in the day the music died which was circa 1970. Art for art's sake, a pretence of music for money's sake. James Brown's Sex Machine or Dick'ead Martin's She Bangs? Music today is pornographic. Rock and roll was a form of rebellion. Now it's a form of bullion. As I said, maybe I'm getting old and cold and settled in my ways. Enough Guillaume. So looking forward to the New Orleans Jazz and Heritage Festival and hopefully meeting my first JMDLer Michael Paz whilst there, or any New Yorkers from 1st April to 5th. I'm staying in Queens and hoping to visit Greenwich Village to perform some Joni to anyone who'll listen. Have y'all a glass of champagne on me. Coz I could drink a case of ..... Willy the Shake ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 23 Feb 2001 12:44:38 -0800 (PST) From: Don Rowe Subject: Re: Critical Praise (NJC) I agree ... almost completely. I think TAN is just an incredible all-around album. Who else but Becker and Fagen could make such catchy, hooky tunes out of such quirky riffs? I mean, you can actually sing this stuff ... notes and all ... Now let us consider the competitor Eminem, stripped down to his most basic element -- forgetting even, just for a moment, the more incendiary aspects of his "lyrics" ... First off ... Rap = Rhythm. Rhythm is one, amongst many, facets of music -- but in and of itself does NOT qualify as musical composition. Therefore, rap is not now, and so far as it continues to be based on a single element of composition, will never BE music. This is not just this man's opinion. A teacher of mine, and great operatic mezzo, held auditions for a master class at Southern Methodist University for some very talented kids a couple of years back. One little boy walked in, announcing that he was going to "sing a song." When he began rapping .. she gently told him: "That's talking ... not singing." She was, of course, correct. A rap (whatever the subject) has cadence, phrasing, meter, accent and dynamics. Those are ALL subset components of basic rhythm. But what's missing is melody, harmony, tonal progression, consanance, dissonance & overtone -- those musical aspects that are possible only when one stops 'talking' and starts 'singing.' There is, and always will be a difference. Now, is this to slag Eminem? No ... it's only to say that he's merely an orator ... NOT a musician. So it doesn't surprise me in the least that Steely Dan was picked by a panel of musicians -- regardless of sales. And now it's time for a nap -- if only I could find my flame-retardant PJs! ;-) Don Rowe ===== Visit me anytime at http://www.mp3.com/donrowe ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 23 Feb 2001 11:14:27 -0800 From: "Kakki" Subject: Re: Hawaiian Taxi > I'm excited to hear ol' Del, I love it when someone puts >a new spin on an old favorite! Bob, I'm surprised that there weren't more Joni covers in Hawaii. This album of mostly Beazley songs is really good and includes musicians Michael Paulo (Kalapana, Bobby Caldwell), Gaylord Holomalia (Kalapana) and Kimo Cornwell (Hiroshima). Here's what Beazley says in the liner notes: "Joni Mitchell wrote this song about the commercialization of Hawai'i, about The Royal Hawaiian Hotel, Foster Gardens, and parking lots now the images of paradise. I've put a little 'local' spin on one of my favorite songs." (I think Joni's about due to write an update, ahem ;-) As I was driving along over there I heard the old standard "Waimanalo Blues" on the radio a few times and was struck for the first time at a similiar theme. Check out some of the lyrics. Where I will go the wind only knows Good times around the bend Get in my car, goin' too far Never comin' back again Tired and worn I woke up this mornin' Found that I was confused Spun right around and found I had lost The things that I couldn't lose CHORUS: The beaches they sell to build their hotels My fathers and I once knew Birds all along sunlight at dawn Singing Waimanalo blues Down on the road with mountains so old Far on the country side Birds on the wing forget in a while So I'm headed for the windward side Don't it always seem to go.... Looking forward to Vol. 14! Kakki ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 24 Feb 2001 03:51:44 +0700 From: "william" Subject: With friends of spirit who drink and ... laud Kris K said, Joni, leave something for yourself. Maybe she took heed and therein after always left something for herself. And that's why we never got another Blue. Ridley's Believe it or not. I don't think so but I'm gonna take a look around and ... ask the JMDLers ... Did she ever top herself? Eh? Blue o-o-o. Of course. Willy bubbly on champagne. This could be a first on the JMDL. I'm gonna pass you over to a friend who only knows Joni's Blue. Here goes. well hellow my names Paul.A big fan of blue since my mother raised me on it.Willy the shake is introducing me joni like its going out of fashin Congrats she won n oscar. Wills tells me it wasnt an oscar but a grandmother. back to wills ................... Sorry guys, we're having a late night celebrating and I must get back t.............. Have a great weekend y'all Willy the Shake ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 23 Feb 2001 12:32:12 -0800 From: "Kate Bennett" Subject: Folk Alliance (some JC) long... Steve Dulson said, "But Kate, did you have a good time up north? :) Oh my yes. (I hope to writer up a more formal piece, & submit it our local paper about this experience--which I will share with all of you when it gets done as it is somewhat Joni related.) First of all let me say that the name FOLK alliance is deceiving. There is a lot of different music there. What is folk music anyway? If you like really great live performances by really great songwriters (great melodies, lyrics, grooves)who can really play their instruments well, then this is what you will find at the Folk Alliance. AND people from all over the world come to this event. It isn't your traditional folk kind of music, though there is plenty of that I am sure. For those of you who like the music of Jonatha, John Gorka, Ani, DiFranco, Aimee Mann, etc. --it is this kind of quality of music that is spilling out all over the place. When I first arrived at the Hyatt, Steve & Michele walked me around a bit to get me orientated. He pointed out Phil Ochs sister (I grew up loving Phil) & another founder of (what was it Steve, do you remember?) & introduced me to someone who worked at Dirty Linen Magazine. I began to get the feeling that this was going to be an incredible weekend surrounded by so much vibrant music. The music was everywhere. In hotel rooms, in stairwells, in lobby corners, in hallways. Playing real good for free!!!! Vancouver is stunningly beautiful. It rivals the beauty of my hometown--dare I say, maybe even more beautiful? Stephen was a terrific host & the restaurant he took us too was superb! I wish I had more time to see the sites of the area & will definitely return. Like Steve D said, what incredible company it was, an international group if ever there was one. Wally was wonderful to meet, it almost felt as if he was one of our hosts as he had been there for some time & knew a lot about the area. Steve & Michele were really kind & sweet to stay up to hear me play on Saturday night. It was a late night, after many late nights in a row & I really really appreciate that kind of generous support. BTW, the back stage was a room next door to Taylor & on the other side was the ASCAP stage. Back stage with me was Jennifer Kimball (Jonatha's old partner). I caught some of her set but wasn't as impressed with her as I am with Jonatha- not to say she wasn't good, just that her songs didn't stand out- (but at that point I could have been on music overload anyway). Steve, I got to hear & speak with Mary Gauthier too her songs are great & she is funny- talking about how she had just won a very strange award, the GLAMA (gay, lesbian music award) for Country! Robert Corwin had an incredible display of photographs he has taken over the years in the upstairs lobby of the hotel. Like Henry Diltz, his photos are a wonderful & vibrant visual recording of music through the years. Beautiful photos of a young Joni, CSNY, James Taylor, Sarah McL, Shawn Colvin & Mary Chapin, Ani D, and many many more. Many were taken at festivals in a similar environment to the Folk Alliance (though it was in a hotel). I spoke with Robert at his booth on Saturday & he told me that he discovered many of these photos for the first time, when getting his display together, & thanks to modern technology (photoshop) was able to show them as some were not in very good shape. To my amazed delight, there he was at the Taylor showcase taking pictures! I hope to be able to get one from him. What an incredible honor to be included in that! Oh YES, the elevators! They stopped working Saturday night so I got to walk down the stairwell from the 3200 floor to the 2nd (where I was scheduled to perform), carrying my very heavy guitar & a bag of cds & other guitar paraphernalia. The security guys looked really really stressed, poor guys. Drove from Vancouver to Seattle to fly back home. The wait was over an hour, though when I got to the customs man, he let me through easily. PHEW. I had heard stories of being charged heavily to bring an instrument across the border. Fortunately, I had allowed some extra time so I got to the airport in the nick of time. My suitcase is still unpacked.... ******************************************** Kate Bennett www.katebennett.com sponsored by Polysonics www.polysonics.com ******************************************** ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 23 Feb 2001 13:17:30 -0800 From: Steve Dulson Subject: Re: Folk Alliance (NJC). Kate wrote: >When I first arrived at the Hyatt, Steve & Michele walked me around a bit to >get me orientated. He pointed out Phil Ochs sister Sonny Ochs > & >another founder of (what was it Steve, do you remember?) Ummmm....maybe Rod Kennedy, founder of the Kerrville Folk Festival? >& introduced me to >someone who worked at Dirty Linen Magazine. Jim Lee >Mary Gauthier too her songs are great & she is funny- talking about how she >had just won a very strange award, the GLAMA (gay, lesbian music award) for >Country! Her personality and sense of humor are hard to beat! A very fun performer. >To my amazed delight, there he was at the Taylor showcase taking pictures! I >hope to be able to get one from him. What an incredible honor to be included >in that! Yow! >Oh YES, the elevators! They stopped working Saturday night so I got to walk >down the stairwell from the 3200 floor to the 2nd (where I was scheduled to >perform) At least your journey wasn't in the opposite direction! :) Great to hear such a rave review from a FA first-timer. I got a kick out of being able to play the wizened old veteran.... :) - -- ######################################################## Steve Dulson Costa Mesa CA steve@psitech.com "The Tinker's Own" http://www.tinkersown.com "Southern California Dulcimer Heritage" http://members.aol.com/scdulcimer/ "The Living Tradition Concert Series" http://www.thelivingtradition.org/ ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 23 Feb 2001 16:19:37 -0500 From: "Christopher J. Treacy" Subject: Shawn Update NJC Alison was wondering about the new Shawn CD. It's due on March 27th, the single is called "Whole New You", as is the CD...I think it was originally to be called "Bonefields" but was changed at the last minute. Shawn is playing 3 shows at the Bottom Line, March 20,21, & 22. I just mail ordered for my tix. Yes, I will make the journey from Boston for my 12th Shawn Colvin show. - -Chris ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 24 Feb 2001 11:00:33 +1300 From: "hell" Subject: Re: radiohead creep - njc Patrick wrote: > anyway, i've read up on them and this song was a major hit in the uk in like > 1993 and i've never ever heard of it. i'm wondering if the uk people like or > dislike radiohead. i'd be hard pressed to believe that jason does not like > them. they might be too harsh for colin's tastes..lots of guitar crunch. i > also see that a lot of their stuff is not as available in the usa. Creep is a song I hear a LOT. A friend of mine is a guitarist, and whenever we have a get together (usually every weekend) the stereo will go off, and the guitar will come out. Creep is a song that gets played pretty much every time. It's a surprisingly good song to sing along to - I'm not a Radiohead fan, simply because I haven't heard much of their music, but I do like this one. Hell (in NZ, not the UK!) NP: Tom Petty (Pack Up The Plantation - Live!) - American Girl. I don't think I've ever heard Tom Petty discussed here - just wondering if people here like him? ____________________________ "To have great poets, there must be great audiences too." - Walt Whitman hell@ihug.co.nz Visit the NBLs (Natural Born Losers) at: http://www.nbls.co.nz ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 24 Feb 2001 11:02:18 +1300 From: "hell" Subject: Re: Joni at the Grammy's, and a great big thanks! Jack wrote: > My lasting impression of the Grammy's is a fantasy one. There is Joni up on > the stage with Carlos, probably wondering why the hell she was here in the > first place. Carlos tears open the envelope to see who won record of the > year, but instead of U2 winning, the Grammy goes to Destiny's Child for Say > My Name. Unable to speak, Carlos hands the envelope to Joni, who immediately > breaks out into one of those famous laughs of hers. Joni and Carlos then > break into a spontaneous accapella version of the Marvin Gaye classic "What's > goin on?" Security is finally brought to the stage, where Joni is forced to > announce the winner. The half naked trio jiggles up to the podium, and just > as Joni is about to hand them the award, she let's go of it, and it crashes > to the floor. A cat fight ensues, in which Joni kicks all three of their > partially covered asses. A genuine Kodak moment! I had a good laugh at this - I wish it were true! Hope you're feeling better, Jack, and well on the way to a full recovery. Hell ____________________________ "To have great poets, there must be great audiences too." - Walt Whitman hell@ihug.co.nz Visit the NBLs (Natural Born Losers) at: http://www.nbls.co.nz ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 24 Feb 2001 11:10:19 +1300 From: "hell" Subject: Re: Hawaiian Taxi Kakki wrote: > I think we should think about renting a Kailua beach house > and having a Hawaiian Jonifest one of these days. Easier to > pull in Hell, John, Pat, Joseph, Rainbow and the rest of the > Oceania JMDL'ers, too ;-) Count me in times 100! This would be absolutely wonderful. It would only cost me half as much, and I'd get to go back to the place where I spent the best holiday of my life! I absolutely and completely LOVE this idea! So when are we going? Someone set a date? Who's going to come? Let's go tomorrow! Hell - getting very excited, and having to go and have a little lie down before I start hyper-ventilating! ____________________________ "To have great poets, there must be great audiences too." - Walt Whitman hell@ihug.co.nz Visit the NBLs (Natural Born Losers) at: http://www.nbls.co.nz ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 23 Feb 2001 17:13:58 -0600 From: mags Subject: Re: Facelift + Joni's story SCJoniGuy@aol.com wrote: > < Having been in her company, I am positive that her aura and radiance give the > illusion of a younger person as opposed to something artificial. I feel that > Joni values her years, and admires people like Georgia O'Keefe that have the > signs of truth & beauty about them.>> and now Mags wonders aloud: could it be that our Joni exemplifies the radiant beauty found in Canadian women? ;-) np: Because I Told You So, Jonatha Brooke, Live. > > > I wanna share her comments..this was very much synchronicity as I was just > burning this CD for Gary Zack this morning. It was from KSCA Radio, the day > that TI came out in 1994. As an intro to Facelift, she had the following > conversation: > > Joni: "I'll play you a brand new song. This is a song called "Facelift" > (tuning guitar)...actually the full title of it is, um, "Happiness Is the > BEST Facelift"...I played, just for the fun of it, at Milton Berle's 86th > birthday not that long ago, and it was really great because it was a roundup > of all the old comics, Steve Allen, I mean ALL of the old comics, old & > young, ya know, and um, I looked out at that audience, in Hollywood here, ya > know, if you hit middle age it's pretty much time to go for the old 'nip & > tuck', but, these were like (laughing)...Robbie's stroking his beard because > it's kind of a private joke on that one, but I mean I saw faces there that > had been lifted one too many times, y'know what I mean, it's like, > (uncontrollable laughter)...but this doesn't really have much to do with > that, um...Have you ever seen it when, with the tattooed eyebrows, where the > eyebrows are like, long gone, they've gone up into the scalp > somewhere...(Joni now laughing hysterically), and the navel is appearing in > the chin...."(begins to play Facelift) > > A transcription can't do this mini-monologue justice, Joni's routine had me > laughing out loud the first time I heard it. > > Anyway, given her making fun of the Hollywood facelift types, unless I hear > it from Joni herself, I would say she has not had one. > > Bob > > NP: Joni, Facelift from KSCA 1994 Interview - -- --------------------------------------------------------------------- _~O / /\_, ___/\ /_ - ----------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 23 Feb 2001 14:18:44 -0800 From: jan gyn Subject: Fwd: srv bit on the onion (NJC) http://www.theonion.com/onion3706/guy_at_bar.html ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 23 Feb 2001 17:28:15 -0500 From: Gary Zack Subject: Re: Hawaiian Taxi Kakki wrote: > > Aloha, > > Just returned on the red-eye from Honolulu after a wonderful but much too > short time. Welcome back Kakki! We missed you! But jealous of that tan! Gary ------------------------------ End of JMDL Digest V2001 #90 **************************** ------- Post messages to the list by clicking here: mailto:joni@smoe.org Unsubscribe by clicking here: mailto:joni-digest-request@smoe.org?body=unsubscribe ------- Siquomb, isn't she?