From: les@jmdl.com (JMDL Digest) To: joni-digest@smoe.org Subject: JMDL Digest V2001 #87 Reply-To: joni@smoe.org Sender: les@jmdl.com Errors-To: les@jmdl.com Precedence: bulk Unsubscribe: mailto:joni-digest-request@smoe.org?body=unsubscribe Archives: http://www.smoe.org/lists/joni Websites: http://www.jmdl.com http://www.jonimitchell.com JMDL Digest Thursday, February 22 2001 Volume 2001 : Number 087 The 'Official' Joni Mitchell Homepage, created by Wally Breese, can be found at http://www.jonimitchell.com. It contains the latest news, a detailed bio, Original Interviews, essays, lyrics and much much more. The JMDL website can be found at http://www.jmdl.com and contains interviews, articles, the member gallery, archives, and much more. ========== TOPICS and authors in this Digest: -------- Re: I'm back - FTR songbook inquiry [TreyCozy@aol.com] Re: Jonifest 2000 CD's Ready to Spin ["hell" ] SJC - Joni as grammy presenter ["Greer, Ron" ] Oops...Bill Pearson Rocks! NJC ["Bill Pearson" ] Re: FWIW (NJC) - eminem as vile, hateful cretin [MDESTE1@aol.com] Re: Oops...Bill Pearson Rocks! NJC [SCJoniGuy@aol.com] Status of Lotto for Covers Volume 14 [SCJoniGuy@aol.com] Joni as grammy presenter (her intro) [Don Rowe ] Joni's daughter [Msvikkii@aol.com] Re: FWIW (NJC) - eminem as vile, hateful cretin [Alison E ] Joni Print Contest - A temporary set back. [Merk54@aol.com] Re: FWIW (NJC) - eminem as vile, hateful cretin [jan gyn ] Re: FWIW (NJC) - eminem as vile, hateful cretin [Alison E ] Vince Mendoza wins!!!!!!!!! [Brian Gross ] KKK, Religion, Hate NJC [catman ] JONI WINS !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! [Brian Gross ] Macy Gray won best female pop vocalist [RoseMJoy@aol.com] There's hope for the next generation after all(NJC) [Relayer211@aol.com] Re: Joni wins for Best Traditional Pop Vocal Album! [Brian Gross ] Joni & Carlos Santana presenting the award [RoseMJoy@aol.com] RE: HOSL's cover [Catherine McKay ] OH MY Gawd!!! [Michael Paz ] Re: update... [Catherine McKay ] Re: JONI WINS !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! [Catherine McKay ] Time warp Award show NJC ["Blair Fraipont" ] NJC 2.0 [Vince Lavieri ] Grammys [SCJoniGuy@aol.com] Re: jm and la [Michael Paz ] Re: Joni Print Contest - A temporary set back. [Michael Paz ] grammys(njc) ["Victor Johnson" ] ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Wed, 21 Feb 2001 03:29:35 EST From: TreyCozy@aol.com Subject: Re: I'm back - FTR songbook inquiry Thanks so much for all your responses. Ashara has kindly helped me out. I forgot how incredibly kind you all are!!! I'll be on that piano in no time! Thanks again... Trey ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 21 Feb 2001 21:31:18 +1300 From: "hell" Subject: Re: Jonifest 2000 CD's Ready to Spin Bob wrote: > All Aussies and Kiwis and Dingos interested in getting this set > contact Hell. Hell, if there's sufficient response, lemme know > and I'll send a set your way. OK, you heard the man! Let me know if you'd like a copy, and I'll be the official branch for down-under. And if you're unsure, let me tell you that I have a copy of last year's, and it's the next best thing to being there! And I've also heard clips of some of this year's, and although I didn't think it was possible, I think it sounds even better! So get those requests in! Hell ____________________________ "To have great poets, there must be great audiences too." - Walt Whitman hell@ihug.co.nz Visit the NBLs (Natural Born Losers) at: http://www.nbls.co.nz ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 21 Feb 2001 10:53:42 +0200 From: "Greer, Ron" Subject: SJC - Joni as grammy presenter hi >bob wrote >Presenters include Erykah Badu, >Toni Braxton, Andy Garcia, Kevin James, Ray Romano, Carlos Santana, Tony >Bennett, Carson Daly, Gloria Estefan, Vince Gill, Joni Mitchell, Sisqs and >Aerosmith's Steven Tyler and Joe Perry. >> >As you can see, Joni will present, not perform. Sorry. the thought of joni presenting an award to one of the mtv type acts is somewhat ironic (hoods in the hood or whiny white boys????). and also extremely disturbing. i seem to remember bob (the other one) doing the deed a while back. i was waiting in keen anticipation to see his face if he got to give the award to one of the other nominees. fortunately he got to give the award to carlos santana, who had a bit more talent than the others (tho i still think that "supernatural" sucks) ron ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 21 Feb 2001 11:49:38 -0000 From: "Bill Pearson" Subject: Oops...Bill Pearson Rocks! NJC Bob, You are a gent, it's been a long time since anyone said that. One thing that did concern me though...... from 'Special Agent' to 'Sergeant'? is that demotion???? or could it be promotion to Sergeant ROCK :) Next one will be on it's way soon, here comes #15 Bill np: the armchair rockin' > From: SCJoniGuy@aol.com > Subject: Oops...Bill Pearson Rocks! > > In my haste to get the word out about Volume 14, I forgot to give the proper > kudos to "Sergeant" Bill Pearson for his contributions! > > Thanks Bill! Your continued support and hard work is enjoyed by JMDLer's > around the world! > > Bob, who intentionally left off the NJC so that all would know that Bill > Rocks! ;~) ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 21 Feb 2001 07:58:05 EST From: MDESTE1@aol.com Subject: Re: FWIW (NJC) - eminem as vile, hateful cretin In a message dated 2/20/2001 9:44:06 PM Pacific Standard Time, bcode@istar.ca writes: << I wish that the market (rather than 'the' censor), dictated by people's sense of right and wrong, would crush such vile stuff. It doesn't. Why? >> Im not defending Eminem. In fact the opposit is true. Recently in the thread about the KKK and 13 year olds visiting evil websites I posted an article about a left wing group that was literally doing everything that the KKK does and has done but in the name of a politically "approved" cause. Not only did I not recieve any emails from listers discussing the irony but there were none posted publicly. The silence was deafening. recently with the news that Elton John will perform with Eminem have come comments from artists like Madonna who have supported Eminem because art is supposed to "disturb" etc. As if that is some kind of actual justification. With garbage like the movie Hannibal drawing in the leading numbers at the box office and with the Clintons popularity still high in spite of revelations that they stole not just the furniture but art that was solicited for the White House permanent collection. (Actually Hillary meant to say "Our House" permanent collection but thats another story) We find ourselves in a relativist world culturally. In other words there simply is no right or wrong any more. In fact those who insist that there is "right" and "wrong" are the ones who are attacked by the cultural elite. So how can anyone criticize Eminem if all the other stuff is accepted "or else". Once you untether the society from any form of control and insist on the validity of cultural anarchy you cant come back and suddenly say "Hey thats off base". If Piss Christ is defended as art then so must Eminem be. While Madonna is at least consistent Im sure her opinion would change if someone created art showing her in schemes or a public art exhibit that violated her personal world. Someday in the future we will see why it has been such a mistake to have accepted the unacceptable as valid. How we have tolerated total garbage in the name of both art and "good political causes". And when that day comes we will wonder how did we get to this horrible place. the answer will be One Eminem at a Time. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 21 Feb 2001 08:20:17 EST From: SCJoniGuy@aol.com Subject: Re: Oops...Bill Pearson Rocks! NJC <> Definitely NOT a demotion, Bill! :~) You've made the contributor's Hall of Fame on that Chaka cover alone! And yes, #15 will not be far behind, thanks to E-Bay! Bob NPIMH: XTC, "Sgt. Rock is Going to Help Me" ;~) ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 21 Feb 2001 08:28:00 EST From: SCJoniGuy@aol.com Subject: Status of Lotto for Covers Volume 14 Howdy, JMDLer's! Thanks for all the lotto guesses thus far. Also for the many kind words y'all are sending my way. I wish I could respond to everyone, but alas, just not enough time. Anyway, if you haven't guessed the 3-digit number yet, do so, there's still plenty of time. Obviously, only one guess per person. So far, Steve Anderson is the closest, but he didn't hit it exactly. Plenty of better numbers still out there. Bob NP: Crash Test Dummies, "Untitled" ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 21 Feb 2001 06:57:45 -0800 (PST) From: Don Rowe Subject: Joni as grammy presenter (her intro) "And now would you welcome please, a legend, multiple Grammy winner, and runaway from the record biz ... here to present the award for 'Most Genuine Junkfood For Juveniles' -- the incomparable ... Joni Mitchell .." Or something like that ... Don Rowe ===== Visit me anytime at http://www.mp3.com/donrowe ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 21 Feb 2001 10:38:08 EST From: Msvikkii@aol.com Subject: Joni's daughter I was just wondering if there are any more pictures out there of Joni and her beautiful daughter. I heard she had children? from msvikkii ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 21 Feb 2001 07:59:08 -0800 (PST) From: Alison E Subject: Re: FWIW (NJC) - eminem as vile, hateful cretin - --- MDESTE1@aol.com wrote: > Im not defending Eminem. In fact the opposit is > true. Recently in the thread > about the KKK and 13 year olds visiting evil > websites I posted an article > about a left wing group that was literally doing > everything that the KKK does > and has done but in the name of a politically > "approved" cause Not only did > I not recieve any emails from listers discussing the > irony but there were > none posted publicly. The silence was deafening. i think the silence was deafening because it was a bullshit analogy. i am unaware of any lynching of black men and women by the "ELF" or any other environmental group. i am unaware of any systematic torture of any jews by the "ELF". i am unaware of any cross burnings or church burnings by the "ELF". i am unaware of any attempt by the "ELF" to declare themselves the "righteous" race. in fact, no murder, no INJURY (let alone death) of a human has ever come about as a direct action of any activity claimed by the "ELF". plenty of property, millions of dollars worth, has been destroyed by (or claimed to have been destroyed by) this group. so what you are saying with this argument, marcel, is that this destroyed property is just as valuable as the lives of thousands of victims of the KKK and other race-based hate groups. in fact, this group (that i don't support, by the way) takes these actions in a misguided attempt to save the planet for all creatures, human and non. they are trying to wake people up to the devastation that is occuring everyday in our own backyards. no, i dont' think it's the right approach. i don't believe in violence as a political tactic. but they aren't specifically trying to hurt or denegrate people or advance an agenda based on hate (unless you think hating developers and corporations like monsanto is the same thing, i guess). > recently with the news that > Elton John will perform with Eminem have come > comments from artists like > Madonna who have supported Eminem because art is > supposed to "disturb" etc. > As if that is some kind of actual justification. it's not a justification, she's making your point for you. here we sit, arguing about what a dirty little rat bastard he is, as his actions rally together a crowd of gay-rights activists that hasn't been spurred to action since the death of matthew sheppard. they have a cause celebre, and as a result we are having a dialog about civil-rights for all humans. > with the Clintons popularity still > high in spite of > revelations that they stole not just the furniture > but art that was solicited > for the White House permanent collection. (Actually > Hillary meant to say "Our > House" permanent collection but thats another story) i love how you always seem to pull in a diatribe against the clintons, no matter what argument you are making! While Madonna is at > least consistent Im sure her opinion would change if > someone created art > showing her in schemes or a public art exhibit that > violated her personal > world. they have, for over 15 years now, been violating her personal world. her attitude seems to have been strengthened by this abuse, not shaken. my 2 cents. alison e. in nyc ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 21 Feb 2001 17:00:39 -0000 From: "Bye, David" Subject: 1983(?) question Hi y'all, I was wondering if anyone out there can give me helping hand... > I've just traded for a show labelled "Refugee of the Road", apparently > recorded in 1983, with these tracks > > > WILD THINGS RUN FAST > > RAISED ON ROBBERY > > REFUGEE OF THE ROADS > > SWEET BIRD OF YOUTH > > BANQUET > > YOU'RE SO SQUARE > > SOLID LOVE > > GOD MUST BE A BOOGIE MAN > > FOR FREE > > YOU DREAM FLAT TYRES > > CHINESE CAFE/UNCHAINED MELODY > > UNDERNEATH THE STREETLIGHT > > WOODSTOCK > > > can anyone come up with a date and venue or (pushing it a bit !) artwork ? TIA Rave On, David ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 21 Feb 2001 12:03:40 EST From: Merk54@aol.com Subject: Joni Print Contest - A temporary set back. As you were hopefully all aware, I am sponsoring a little contest where in order to win, you need to answer questions that are only answerable if you have one of my Joni Mitchell fundrasier prints. The contest was scheduled for this evening. Unfortunately, on Valentine's Day, I underwent quadruple bypass surgery, after suffering a heart attack the previous Saturday. Needless to say, this has forced me to delay the date on the actual contest. Assuming all goes well, I hope to run the contest some time in the next 3-4 weeks. I will keep you all posted as to the actual date, once I've gotten everything in place. As far as me goes, the surgery went extremely well, and fortunately there was extremely little damage done during the heart attack itself. Considering that the the main artery to my left ventricle was 100% blocked, and the secondary artery to the left ventricle was 90%, I am extremely lucky! Hopefully I can use this experience as one of life's little epiphanies, and turn the whole thing into a big positive. I'm scheduled to be off of work for 8 weeks or so (thankfully with full pay!), so I will have plenty of time to dedicate to drawing, listening to music, and reflecting on the road traveled so far. Upon checking email for the first time in over a week, I was barraged with over 300 emails, so I will probably be doing some selective pruning. If you sent me an email and never got a response, please resend, as I might have accidentally deleted it. Peace. Jack ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 21 Feb 2001 09:40:11 -0800 From: jan gyn Subject: Re: FWIW (NJC) - eminem as vile, hateful cretin >If Piss Christ is defended as art then so must Eminem be. While Madonna is at >least consistent Im sure her opinion would change if someone created art >showing her in schemes or a public art exhibit that violated her personal >world. Someday in the future we will see why it has been such a mistake to >have accepted the unacceptable as valid. How we have tolerated total garbage >in the name of both art and "good political causes". And when that day comes >we will wonder how did we get to this horrible place. the answer will be One >Eminem at a Time. > No 'Piss Christ' gosh darned it, but if you want to scope Andre Serrano's other stuff, check: http://www.hightechhightouch.com/frames/specimen/serrano/ - -jan BTW, that Van Halen group used to specify that their aftershow 'M&M' candies should exclude the brown ones. What would Slim Shady say about this? ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 21 Feb 2001 11:40:41 -0800 From: Randy Remote Subject: Re: Joni Print Contest - A temporary set back. Glad you are on the mend, Jack. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 21 Feb 2001 12:06:05 -0800 (PST) From: Alison E Subject: Re: Joni Print Contest - A temporary set back. jack! that's unbelievable news. i am glad to hear that you have come through it and are now in the healing process. please take care of yourself, and know that the jmdl are pulling for you. alison e. in nyc - --- Merk54@aol.com wrote: > Unfortunately, on Valentine's Day, I underwent > quadruple bypass surgery, > after suffering a heart attack the previous > Saturday. > Peace. > > Jack ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 21 Feb 2001 12:16:53 -0800 From: Randy Remote Subject: Re: FWIW (NJC) - eminem as vile, hateful cretin MDESTE1@aol.com wrote: > . Recently in the thread > about the KKK and 13 year olds visiting evil websites I posted an article > about a left wing group that was literally doing everything that the KKK does > and has done but in the name of a politically "approved" cause. Not only did > I not recieve any emails from listers discussing the irony but there were > none posted publicly. The silence was deafening. From experience I can assert that it is common to put out a thought, argument or observation and not get a response. That doesn't prove tacit anything on the part of the people who have read it. My own response to violence of any kind by people who are passionate about their cause, be it the environment, racism, abortion or whatever is to condemn it as inappropriate. Further, I have known many many environmentalists over the years and one thing they have in common to the last is a commitment to non-violence. Sure there are extreme examples of violent activists, but they are a rarity and are not accepted by the movement as a whole. Not at all. It has come to light in some past cases that violent actions were actually instigated and organized by gov. agent provacateurs. One notable example was the Earth First! cutting of power lines in (Colo? Ariz?) in which the plan was hatched, pushed, the equipment and vehicles supplied by a gov. agent. Again, not to say this is always the case. I guess my initial thought when I read your post was how eager the media is to sensationalize one group, and how reluctant they are to publicize legitamate enviro groups and the vast environmental problems we face, especially when they conflict with the interests of their advertisers and corporate owners. For instance, GE who is deep into nuclear power and owns NBC, censors news about nukes. And ABC, owned by Disney, now censors news stories critical of Disney. It's like when Ralph Nader was trying to run for pres. The most ink he got during the whole campaign was at the end when they all decided he was a 'spoiler' for Gore. They overlooked or under reported his barring from the debates and his platform in general. > with the Clintons popularity still high in spite of > revelations that they stole not just the furniture but art that was solicited > for the White House permanent collection. What are you telling me, the president is a dishonest politician? Him and every other one in our lifetime. Not good but nothing new. > We find ourselves in a > relativist world culturally. In other words there simply is no right or wrong > any more. In fact those who insist that there is "right" and "wrong" are the > ones who are attacked by the cultural elite. The problem comes when one group's peculiar standards of right and wrong are imposed on others because they have more political power. > So how can anyone criticize > Eminem if all the other stuff is accepted "or else". Once you untether the > society from any form of control Are you talking about censorship? Control by whom? Of whom? > and insist on the validity of cultural > anarchy you cant come back and suddenly say "Hey thats off base". > > If Piss Christ is defended as art then so must Eminem be. I agree with this. We mustn't censor art, except to guard children from pornography. As for adults, they don't need a big brother or 'cultural elite' to decide for them. Again the Eminem question comes back to the media, in this case MTV, who, seemingly contrary to their political orientation, promoted the hell out of his last record, giving his videos heavy rotation out of proportion to his stature at the time, and in fact increasing his stature and sales considerably. The NARAS (grammy org) have also been under fire for participating in his promotion. They both are well aware of the homophobic and mysogenist lyrics. I am in solidarity with the groups who have protested MTV and those who will protest against NARAS today. I have supported a voluntary boycott of Eminem from the beginning, and encourage anyone who does not approve of Eminem to not buy his product, and anyone opposed to or offended by Piss Christ to stay out of that museum. I'm glad we have the freedom to choose. RR ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 21 Feb 2001 12:31:37 -0800 From: Randy Remote Subject: LA concert with N Young njc Red Hot Chili Peppers and Neil Young with Crazy Horse will play a benefit concert March 1 in Los Angeles for a well known health worker who has fallen ill. The ever-slow loading Rolling Stone site has more info. http://tm0.com/RSWeekly/sbct.cgi?s=54695038&i=306316&d=1071487 RR ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 21 Feb 2001 12:52:36 -0800 (PST) From: Alison E Subject: Re: FWIW (NJC) - eminem as vile, hateful cretin one other possible reason that people don't respond to your vitriolic posts is that you consistently choose to post private responses to on-list debates. just a thought. alison e. in nyc ps: "boyz in the hood" was by john singleton, not spike lee. - --- MDESTE1@aol.com wrote: > In a message dated 2/21/2001 8:14:28 AM Pacific > Standard Time, > alisone4@yahoo.com writes: > > << i think the silence was deafening because it was > a > bullshit analogy.>>> > > The Unibomber was "bullshit". Yeah right. > > <>> > > First of all they never "claim" anything. I guess > the loggers maimed by the > Earth First group dont count in your book. > > << has been destroyed by (or > claimed to have been destroyed by) this group. so > what you are saying with > this argument, marcel, is that this destroyed > property is just as valuable as > the lives of thousands of victims of the KKK and > other race-based hate > groups.>>> > > In the movie Boys in the Hood your statistic is > refuted and that was by Spike > Lee. 63 people were killed in the Rodney King Riots. > At least 23,000 blacks > were killed by other blacks in this decade and that > number is on the low > side. The number according to Spike Lee is less than > 6. So my point is that > many exaggerate and over emphasize the damage while > totally ignoring all > kinds of other facts history and statistics. I take > it that you believe that > to wipe thousands of jobs property and entire towns > off the map to save a > spotted owl is nothing. THAT was my point and thanks > for proving it. > > <<< in fact, this group (that i don't support, by > the way) takes these > actions in a misguided attempt to save the planet > for all creatures, human > and non. they are > trying to wake people up to the devastation that is > occuring everyday in our > own backyards.>>> > > Ask the people who for generations made their living > and raised their kids > working as loggers and farmers and now are > unemployed in Appalacia West. They > will tell you what devastation is. You can continue > to justify your political > views with junk science fabricated by junk > scientists with a political axe to > grind and little empiracle evidence to support their > violence but thats your > perogative. > > << don't believe in violence as > a political tactic. >>> > > Sure you do you just said so above. > > << denegrate people or > advance an agenda based on hate (unless you think > hating developers and > corporations like monsanto is the same thing, i > guess). >> > > This is the problem. As long as we believe we are > only attacking the > amorphous "corporation" then its cool in your book? > They certainly do hate. > Just as the anti war 60s people today cant bring > themselves to admit today > they treated the people who fought in Viet nam like > dogs , today you cant see > that it isnt the corporations alone that they are > hurting. > > <<>> > > The Clintons are the quintessential example of the > deterioration in the > meaning of everything that the liberals used to > stand for. They have forced > the left to evacuate the moral high ground and > expend all its credibility > just to defend them. Same with jessie.I guess we > all owe Nixon an apology > sine to criticize a President who breaks a million > laws makes us diatribers. > After all whats a little abuse of power when his > poll ratings are high (which > they were) ? The great blind spot in the left's > intellect.. Defending a > rapist who happens to be president I would have > thought unimaginable. But it > is those who deign to criticize him that have to be > put down. Stealing the > furniture out of the White House is to our political > culture what Eminem is > to our musical culture. Now do you get it. Maybe > not. > > I very much agree with you on one thing and that is > how these kinds of > matters do in fact intiiate discussion of important issues. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 21 Feb 2001 17:04:21 EST From: Mauski4648@aol.com Subject: Re: onlyJMDL Digest V2001 #59 In einer Nachricht vom 21.02.2001 8:21:34 Uhr schreibt les@jmdl.com: << Euro's John van Tiel will take care of you as always! >> Again and again, is there an email address that works to contact John..I have tried so many times that I am tired of trying..I would love to have all those cover versions - but where is JOHN VAN TIEL??????Does he have a mailing address? Is there anybody who knows??Karin from Germany starving for the Joni cover songs......... P.S.What happened to Indigo?????? ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 21 Feb 2001 23:00:02 -0000 From: "beth s" Subject: jm and la Hi, Does anyone know of any Joni Mitchell "landmarks" one can visit when in Los Angeles? Thanks, bb. - ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 21 Feb 2001 15:18:57 -0800 (PST) From: Brian Gross Subject: Vince Mendoza wins!!!!!!!!! direct from grammy.com Category 78 - Best Instrumental Arrangement Accompanying A Vocalist(s) Both Sides Now Vince Mendoza, arranger (Joni Mitchell) Track From: Both Sides Now [Reprise] yeaaaaaaaaaaaaa !!!!!!!! Brian ===== "No paper thin walls, no folks above No one else can hear the crazy cries of love" yeah, right ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 21 Feb 2001 23:27:21 +0000 From: catman Subject: KKK, Religion, Hate NJC Hate is something we are all taught from birth, often in subtle ways. At first we are taught to hate ourselves. We are taught that our inner self, our real self, is bad, something that has to be tamed and controlled in order for us to grow into 'good people'. Or, more truthfully, grow into the sort of people other people think we ought to be. We are taught to be patriotic, nationalistic, territiarial, to incorporate our 'culture' into our sense of self and identity, when in relaity, these things are not realted to our true selves, and only serve to foster separatness and eventually hatred. Religion, whilst it has it's good points, also teaches hatred. Hatred of self(born sinful rather than whole and new and fresh), hatred of 'sinners' and hatred of others not of the same faith. of course it isn't usually overt but it is there. My own experience was being taught that people of any other faith were heathen and destined for hell. I am not without a psiritual faith now, but it is my own, according to my experinece and my conscience. I am acountable. We are taught to hate difference. We are taught that good people conform and do what is required. people who rock the boat are to be hated. We are even taught to hate those that are teaching us for in their desire to mould us, they build up resentement in us, and often bring about the very thing they sought to discourage. this has happened for eons yet the same old ways are still taught and the same old things still happen. Children who are respected, who are given boundaries, who have their boundaries respected, who are treated well, who are taught by example, rather than by 'do as I say, not as I do', who are valued for their uniqueness, or are given freedom to be who they are, who are encouraged to develop themsleves and their gifts rather than moulded into a set ideal, are not likely to be grow up to be insecure people who hate themselves. It is these people, those who are left with a gaping hole inside, those who are not respected, those who are maltreated, those who are ignored, marginalised, ostracized, scorned and exiled, who are made to feel powerless, will latch on to something that will make them feel powerful-be it the KKK, Fundametalism in all it's hues etc. Religion does not teach universal morals. It merely teaches what it thinks are morals.I am not saying what they teach in totality is not morally good, jsut that they don't have a monoploy on it and it is just their idea and no more. Many of the teachings of Xtianity are not new and are borrowed from other ideas, some of which were not connected to a spiritual belief. Many truly moral, copmpassionate people are athiest. 'goodness' and 'morality' are not soley the province of religion. Often, those that think religion is the sole arbiter of morals, show a distinct lack of morals and ceratinly a distinct lack of respect for others which is often evidenced in the way they relate to others and the scorn they heap on those who believe in lving by one's conscience. Living by one's own concsience is the only honest way to live. You can't live by someone elses. If you agree with a particular philosophy, and live by it, you are living according to your own conscience. Likewise the person who lives by another ideal that differs. the people who go on about the lack or 'morals' in society really mean they are frustrated and afraid because people will not live the way they think they ought to live! Although I feel uncomfortable at many things one is able to buy, see, experience etc I do not believe censorchip is right. Unless it it involves the suffering of others. For example child pronography; thankfully illegal and rightly so, tho consensual adult porn should not be illegal. censorship is strange-we get american tv which often has words 'bleeped' out which we dont' in our programs. this is so childish. Both societies censor sexual content yet are quite happy to show the murder and mutilaiton of people on a daily basis! To stop hatred, to have the world we want to live in, we have to start at the beginning-with the children. treat them right and the world will be right. So obvious but no one wants to read that or believe that. Heven forbid, if it were true we would have some responsiblity! Far better to blame others, or politicians or teachers who people seem to think should be parenting their children. - -- bw colin colin@tantra.fsbusiness.co.uk http://www.geocities.com/tantra_apso/index.html ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 21 Feb 2001 16:06:14 -0800 (PST) From: Brian Gross Subject: JONI WINS !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! from grammy.com: Category 13 - Best Traditional Pop Vocal Album Both Sides Now Joni Mitchell [Reprise Records] OKAYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYY YEAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA WAYYYYYYYYYYYYY TO GO GIRL Brian, too excited for words ===== "No paper thin walls, no folks above No one else can hear the crazy cries of love" yeah, right ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 21 Feb 2001 16:18:13 -0800 From: "Brenda J. Walker" Subject: Joni wins for Best Traditional Pop Vocal Album! http://www.grammy.com/scores/java/winners.html ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 22 Feb 2001 00:41:01 +0000 From: catman Subject: Re: JONI WINS !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! BRILL!!!!! Brian Gross wrote: > from grammy.com: > > Category 13 - Best Traditional Pop Vocal Album > > Both Sides Now > Joni Mitchell > [Reprise Records] > > OKAYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYY > YEAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA > WAYYYYYYYYYYYYY TO GO GIRL > > Brian, too excited for words > > ===== > "No paper thin walls, no folks above > No one else can hear the crazy cries of love" > > yeah, right - -- bw colin colin@tantra.fsbusiness.co.uk http://www.geocities.com/tantra_apso/index.html ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 21 Feb 2001 20:04:33 EST From: RoseMJoy@aol.com Subject: Re: JONI WINS !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! In a message dated 2/21/01 7:30:05 PM Eastern Standard Time, briangross@rocketmail.com writes: > Category 13 - Best Traditional Pop Vocal Album > > Both Sides Now > Joni Mitchell > [Reprise Records] > > OKAYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYY > YEAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA > WAYYYYYYYYYYYYY TO GO GIRL > > Brian, too excited for words > Woooo Hooooo I knew it , I knew it This is fucking great!!!!!! Rose Ecstatic rosemjoy@aol.com ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 21 Feb 2001 20:07:55 -0500 From: "Jim L'Hommedieu" Subject: Grammy Awards are Tonight on CBS, NJC Joni's presenting. Lama ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 22 Feb 2001 01:07:03 -0000 From: "Chris Marshall" Subject: RE: joni on TOTP2 It was a live performance of BSN from 1970, shown on Top Of The Pops. I have this program on my TiVo currently. If this hasn't already been treed, I can get it onto PAL VHS or an MPEG1 file for those that do that sort of thing. So: can someone who "knows" let me know if I need to do anything with this? Cheers! - --Chris (Cambridge, UK) ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 21 Feb 2001 20:21:35 EST From: RoseMJoy@aol.com Subject: Macy Gray won best female pop vocalist Give me a fu**ing break! Like Wally would say, If I had a drink, I'd throw it right now. Rosalita needing a drink right now rosemjoy@aol.com ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 21 Feb 2001 20:27:58 EST From: Relayer211@aol.com Subject: There's hope for the next generation after all(NJC) I read in this week's NewsWeek that preteens and teens are buying The Beatles new compilation "1" by the millions.That's the most hopeful,cheerful news I've read or heard in a while. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 21 Feb 2001 17:58:26 -0800 (PST) From: Brian Gross Subject: Re: Joni wins for Best Traditional Pop Vocal Album! - --- Brenda wrote: > http://www.grammy.com/scores/java/winners.html Does this mean that all those candy-box limited edition BSN's we all bought are worth more than we paid for them? Now they are Grammy winning collectibles, right? Coolios!! Brian, watching and waiting for Joni's chance as a presenter ===== "No paper thin walls, no folks above No one else can hear the crazy cries of love" yeah, right ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 21 Feb 2001 22:00:47 EST From: TerryM2222@aol.com Subject: Re: Joni wins for Best Traditional Pop Vocal Album! She looks great up there, eh? Love the outfit. Rave on, Joni- Terry ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 21 Feb 2001 19:05:07 -0800 (PST) From: Don Rowe Subject: Class .... Our Joan has it! Bravo and encore ... presenting in the finest of all possilble forms ... our Joni! SIQUOMB! Don Rowe ===== Visit me anytime at http://www.mp3.com/donrowe ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 21 Feb 2001 22:15:35 EST From: RoseMJoy@aol.com Subject: Joni & Carlos Santana presenting the award I just saw Joni & Carlos present U2 with best record of the year. YES!! She was eloquent and I must say she looked radiant this evening. Wearing another Issey Miake gown again. This one was much more flattering I thought. Carlos was so funny with the John Coltrane nomination. I love it when Joni laughs. Joni, you did good girl! Rose reporting from NJ rosemjoy@aol.com ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 21 Feb 2001 22:25:47 -0500 (EST) From: Catherine McKay Subject: RE: HOSL's cover Aha! I thought they looked more Amazon-Riverish than African! Thanks, Diane, for clearing that up. People keep talking about the Africans on the cover and franchement ma chere, they never looked very African to me. It has been nagging at me for ages, in a stupid sort of way, but of course, I'm too damned lazy to bother checking it out or even raising the question. - --- Diane Evans wrote: > Yes, it was a National Geographic photo, a 2-page > image from an article > about the changing face of the Amazon, printed in > the early 70's. > > BW > Diane > > > >From: "Jim L'Hommedieu" > >Reply-To: "Jim L'Hommedieu" > >To: "_JMDL" > >Subject: RE: HOSL's cover > >Date: Tue, 20 Feb 2001 02:44:33 -0500 > > > >I think that Joni "lifted" the African tribe > illustration on the cover of > >HOSL. Can anyone confirm/deny? Who remembers the > source? I wanna say > >National Geographic Magazine...... > > > >Lama > > > >np: Mingus Ah Um > > _________________________________________________________________ > Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com Get your free @yahoo.ca address at http://mail.yahoo.ca ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 21 Feb 2001 21:32:31 -0800 From: Michael Paz Subject: OH MY Gawd!!! GO JONI! Wow I am so happy Joni won. An Vince as well. It's too bad they did not have the insight to have her perform with the Vince and her big band. And thanks to Julius for giving the inside info on my ride home from Grambling State University, that she had one. Joni seemed a little edgy there tonight, and the Edge was quite smooth and boy WHAS UP??? with Eminem???? So much poise and even a script of thank yous. Could it be true that he is just a puppet for the corporation?? Makes you wanna go hmmmmmmmmmmmm????!!!!? Macy was fab and so glad she won. I loved the Folgers commercial (The Beat Goes On). Is it me or were all the ladied looking way to HOT tonight?? In other news I have decided to do a big production number at this years JoniFestNewEngland (time permitting of course). I am now recruiting artists for this number so if you are interested please have your agents call me. Well back to the TV to hang out with the kids and make fun of all the ones with think SUCK (U2 is the big SUCK winner in the house tonight) {apologies to all U2 lovers but hey they had alot of better songs than Beautiful Day}. Julian wants to blow off the rest of the Grammy's and just play music. Great idea! Love Paz P.S. I missed you guys! ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 21 Feb 2001 22:31:11 -0500 (EST) From: Catherine McKay Subject: Re: update... - --- "P. Henry" wrote: > it's still far from finished but there have been > some additions at: > > http://albums.photopoint.com/j/AlbumList?u=1502641 > > enjoy, This is wonderful! Get your free @yahoo.ca address at http://mail.yahoo.ca ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 21 Feb 2001 22:53:32 -0500 (EST) From: Catherine McKay Subject: Re: JONI WINS !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Beauty! - --- catman wrote: > BRILL!!!!! > > Brian Gross wrote: > > > from grammy.com: > > > > Category 13 - Best Traditional Pop Vocal Album > > > > Both Sides Now > > Joni Mitchell > > [Reprise Records] > > > > OKAYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYY > > YEAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA > > WAYYYYYYYYYYYYY TO GO GIRL > > > > Brian, too excited for words Get your free @yahoo.ca address at http://mail.yahoo.ca ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 21 Feb 2001 23:03:18 EST From: Relayer211@aol.com Subject: Steely Dan(NJC) I'm happy they won! They're one of the best Rock groups of all time.Imo.I'm happy they finally got a Grammy. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 21 Feb 2001 23:10:25 EST From: SCJoniGuy@aol.com Subject: Re: onlyJMDL Digest V2001 #59 << but where is JOHN VAN TIEL??????Does he have a mailing address? Is there anybody who knows??Karin from Germany starving for the Joni cover songs.........>> Karin...easy there, don't know how you've missed getting up with him, but his e-mail is: john.van.tiel@wxs.nl I've copied him on the message, I think he's currently wrapping up a US visit, but he told me he'd be picking up his e-mails, so hopefully y'all will link up. If not, let me know and I'll hook you up myself, OK? :~) Bob << P.S.What happened to Indigo?????? >> Please explain the question.... ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 21 Feb 2001 23:12:02 EST From: RoseMJoy@aol.com Subject: Re: JONI WINS !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! I never heard them mention it. What the hell??? rosemjoy@aol.com ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 21 Feb 2001 23:30:52 -0500 From: Vince Lavieri Subject: NJC I simply want to say that the Grammies really punted on album of the year. Eminem had the album of the year, love him or hate him. And for the flack I will get for saying this, I don't care. The Grammies' staging of 'Stan' was pretty good though and might have helped people understand what the song was about. I liked seeing Em and Elton John hug each other at the end of the song. And changing the subject, I am very happy that Joni won, and it sure was good seeing her with Santana. I think her Canadian accent is getting more pronounced... and I wish she have sung tonight too, but it was good to see her get the acknowledgement that she did from Carol Santana. (the Rev) Vince NPIMH: The Marshall Mathers LP ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 21 Feb 2001 23:24:20 -0500 From: "Blair Fraipont" Subject: Time warp Award show NJC IT was so much fun seeing all those older and well aged and refined performers mix with the newer crowds. The joni and Carlos Santana presentation was my favorite part! Also, i thought that the Elton John and Emminem performance of "Stan" was a beautiful thing. Think of all the hip hop fans that tuned in to see him and saw Elton John. Think of their reactions, how they may see Elton John, "Emminem is performing with a Gay man!" "is this just for the money and the attention??" Probably it is a bit for the money and attention, but Elton John gets the exposure to the hip hop community and kids see that, and start thinking, and asking questions, which is great. I personally am not an Emminem fan and consider him an extreme poseur in the hip-hop millieu, but I feel the performance really may do something positive and that GLAD may be a bit too UlTRA-Sensitive. But, many congratulations to Joni, and yes, Rose, SHE did look beautiful in that dress. much love blair _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 21 Feb 2001 23:45:02 -0500 From: Vince Lavieri Subject: NJC 2.0 Let me correct my prior email to say "Carlos" Santana... I simply want to say that the Grammies really punted on album of the year. Eminem had the album of the year, love him or hate him. And for the flack I will get for saying this, I don't care. The Grammies' staging of 'Stan' was pretty good though and might have helped people understand what the song was about. I liked seeing Em and Elton John hug each other at the end of the song. And changing the subject, I am very happy that Joni won, and it sure was good seeing her with Santana. I think her Canadian accent is getting more pronounced... and I wish she have sung tonight too, but it was good to see her get the acknowledgement that she did from Carlos Santana. (the Rev) Vince NPIMH: The Marshall Mathers LP ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 21 Feb 2001 23:32:26 EST From: SCJoniGuy@aol.com Subject: Grammys Teacher Teacher I declare, I see Shelby Lynne's underwear! Or I should anyway, as low as those pants are! Hey Macy, why don't you get a hairbrush from Erykah? She don't need it! :~) I almost felt sorry for Joni, so much class in the midst of such a trailer trash production...BUT Moby & Jill Scott rocked the house! They were great. I doubt that the Blue Men were inspired by Joni's record...And thank God that Joni presented with Santana, I was afraid she was gonna come out with one of those "tittilating" presenters! And obviously, I was glad for her win, although I don't think it means a lot to her. Hopefully it will keep her going some. And I at least got to see her onstage with Daniel Lanois! And they spoke! Maybe she asked him to produce her next record...yeah Bob, dream on... And Elton John & Eminem hugging reminded me of the kiss between Michael Jackson & Lisa Presley. Pretty awkward. That's my dollar's worth. More TV than I've watched in a month. Bob NP: James Taylor, "River" ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 21 Feb 2001 23:06:04 -0800 From: Michael Paz Subject: Re: jm and la That would be Kakki, but she's AT THE BEEATCH IS AT THE BEACH!!! So there for I can tell you the Daily Grill and Les Deux Cafe and the Belair Hotel would be my choices. I am sure Kakki has tons more, but that will get you started. Paz (LA Tour Guide Trainee) SHUT UP ALL YOU PEOPLE I GOT LOST WITH IN LA!!!! on 2/21/01 3:00 PM, beth s at binewski@hotmail.com wrote: > Hi, Does anyone know of any Joni Mitchell "landmarks" one can visit when > in Los Angeles? Thanks, bb. > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 21 Feb 2001 23:10:52 -0800 From: Michael Paz Subject: Re: Joni Print Contest - A temporary set back. on 2/21/01 9:03 AM, Merk54@aol.com at Merk54@aol.com wrote: > Unfortunately, on Valentine's Day, I underwent quadruple bypass surgery, > after suffering a heart attack the previous Saturday. Needless to say, this > has forced me to delay the date on the actual contest. Jack I hope you are feeling much better. Gawd I can't leave this list for one minute without something happening. And leave it to Brian to start this whole bypass trend. OK folks that's enough. Please DO NOT TRY THIS AT HOME! Sorry if I made you laugh, I know you must hurt, but laughter is good medicine. Heal well bro and have fun in recoup listening to music and drawing and stuff. Peace Michael ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 21 Feb 2001 23:29:12 -0800 From: Michael Paz Subject: Re: Grammys It did have some horrific production in that whole fiasco. What was up with the director?? I think he might be dating the set director as that was his focus most of the night. I thought most of the shots that he took were terrible during the performances. Are there any other video people on the list that have any opinions on th direction tonight??? Paz (OFF TO SLEEPYTOWN) on 2/21/01 8:32 PM, SCJoniGuy@aol.com at SCJoniGuy@aol.com wrote: > Teacher Teacher I declare, I see Shelby Lynne's underwear! Or I should > anyway, as low as those pants are! > > Hey Macy, why don't you get a hairbrush from Erykah? She don't need it! :~) > > I almost felt sorry for Joni, so much class in the midst of such a trailer > trash production...BUT Moby & Jill Scott rocked the house! They were great. I > doubt that the Blue Men were inspired by Joni's record...And thank God that > Joni presented with Santana, I was afraid she was gonna come out with one of > those "tittilating" presenters! > > And obviously, I was glad for her win, although I don't think it means a lot > to her. Hopefully it will keep her going some. > > And I at least got to see her onstage with Daniel Lanois! And they spoke! > Maybe she asked him to produce her next record...yeah Bob, dream on... > > And Elton John & Eminem hugging reminded me of the kiss between Michael > Jackson & Lisa Presley. Pretty awkward. > > That's my dollar's worth. More TV than I've watched in a month. > > Bob > > NP: James Taylor, "River" ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 22 Feb 2001 01:28:09 -0500 From: "Victor Johnson" Subject: grammys(njc) I was really glad to see U2 and Steely Dan win some well deserved awards!(and Joni of course). My favorite moments were seeing U2 perform and seeing Joni on the stage. I really think "All That You Can't Leave Behind" is a simply brilliant album as I said the day it came out. I saw Emimem perform and it was my first time seeing or hearing him. Here's my take on it. He is very good at telling a story and creating these characters that seem real. But I'm really not sure where to place him in my mind. There is something about his work that is intriguing and yet there is something I find vaguely disturbing, vaguely because I'm sitting here thinking about it and it kind of creeps up on me on a somewhat subconcious level and I find I'd really rather think about something else. The controversy doesn't phase me...I just find there are so many disturbing images in my mind already that creep in on a daily basis, listening to him doesn't really do much for me. To tell you the truth, I really don't care about him one way or the other. It's just not worth it. I think I will just ignore him. Life has seemed very precious lately and U2's album really expresses that. I especially like the song "Stuck in a Moment". Springtime is coming. This cold, hard winter has passed and the sun is shining again. I almost thought it would never really arrive but is really coming. Victor Victor Johnson http://www.cdbaby.com/victorjohnson "Just beyond the morning falls the river of your dreams, Escaping from the day these wild creatures run away." Victor Johnson ------------------------------ End of JMDL Digest V2001 #87 **************************** ------- Post messages to the list by clicking here: mailto:joni@smoe.org Unsubscribe by clicking here: mailto:joni-digest-request@smoe.org?body=unsubscribe ------- Siquomb, isn't she?