From: les@jmdl.com (JMDL Digest) To: joni-digest@smoe.org Subject: JMDL Digest V2001 #56 Reply-To: joni@smoe.org Sender: les@jmdl.com Errors-To: les@jmdl.com Precedence: bulk Unsubscribe: mailto:joni-digest-request@smoe.org?body=unsubscribe Archives: http://www.smoe.org/lists/joni Websites: http://www.jmdl.com http://www.jonimitchell.com JMDL Digest Saturday, February 3 2001 Volume 2001 : Number 056 The 'Official' Joni Mitchell Homepage, created by Wally Breese, can be found at http://www.jonimitchell.com. It contains the latest news, a detailed bio, Original Interviews, essays, lyrics and much much more. The JMDL website can be found at http://www.jmdl.com and contains interviews, articles, the member gallery, archives, and much more. ========== TOPICS and authors in this Digest: -------- Re: Parched Ribs of Sand ["hell" ] Re: Kate Bennett's Web Cast - NJC ["hell" ] Re: performances [was: Thinking too much...] NJC ["hell" ] RE: petrified wood ["Wally Kairuz" ] Re: Covert complicity;notches ["cassy" ] Re: Joni cover [SCJoniGuy@aol.com] Re: performances NJC [dsk ] Re: Covert complicity;notches [Relayer211@aol.com] Joni Cover Alert [AzeemAK@aol.com] (no subject) [AzeemAK@aol.com] strange, strange boy ["Janine Sherman" ] Petrified wood ["Megan" ] Re: Covert complicity;notches ["Megan" ] Re: Joni Cover Alert [SCJoniGuy@aol.com] Re: Parched Ribs of Sand ["Gerald" ] Petrified wood ["Megan" ] aimee mann alert [Murphycopy@aol.com] Sam Shaber Rocks! (NJC) ["Victor Johnson" ] Re: Parched Ribs of Sand [Merk54@aol.com] Re: Dr. Sigmondengreen Has a New Gig!(NJC) [TerryM2222@aol.com] Re: favorite image [TerryM2222@aol.com] Re: Your nachos? Liberation, doll! ["Mark or Travis" ] Re: Dr. Sigmondengreen Has a New Gig!(NJC) ["Mark or Travis" ] PBS Home video CSN ["Janine Sherman" ] RE: Dr. Sigmondengreen Has a New Gig!(NJC) ["Wally Kairuz" ] ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Sat, 3 Feb 2001 11:58:02 +1300 From: "hell" Subject: Re: Parched Ribs of Sand Leslie wrote: > Since I'm a visually oriented person in my mind's eye I can see those > "parched ribs" as mounds of sand on the beach that are created by the tides. The beach we used to go to when I was a child always had these "ripples" on the sand - I used to love the effect, especially when the sun was low in the sky, and you'd get the shadows working as well. But could this lyric also be referring to the biblical "woman was made from Adam's rib?" The fact that she says "ribs at his side" always made me think of this. > It's great how everyone has their own "take" on Joni's lyrics - that's part > of the magic, they are so open to interpretation. > > We can look at them literally or figuratively, from both sides now. I love this as well, and I love the fact that there are several of these discussions happening at the moment. I tend not to analyse Joni's lyrics too much, but it does make things more interesting. And the Only-Joni people must be loving it! Hell ____________________________ "To have great poets, there must be great audiences too." - Walt Whitman hell@ihug.co.nz Visit the NBLs (Natural Born Losers) at: http://www.nbls.co.nz ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 3 Feb 2001 12:11:49 +1300 From: "hell" Subject: Re: Kate Bennett's Web Cast - NJC Jim wrote (about Kate's webcast): > Aukland: GMT + 12: Tuesday Feb 6th: 2 AM - 6 PM I know we're slow over here, and we get things well after the rest of the world, but I'm quite excited that we're getting 16 hours of this, while everyone else is only getting 4 (just kidding, Jim)! Hell ____________________________ "To have great poets, there must be great audiences too." - Walt Whitman hell@ihug.co.nz Visit the NBLs (Natural Born Losers) at: http://www.nbls.co.nz ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 3 Feb 2001 12:09:02 +1300 From: "hell" Subject: Re: performances [was: Thinking too much...] NJC Debra wrote: > I had exactly the same reaction to Dicaprio's performance. I saw What's Eating > Gilbert Grape on tv just after seeing Titanic and was shocked at his > emotionally varied and completely believable performance. Also while watching > that movie I fell in love with Johnny Depp's frazzled and overwhelmed by > responsibility but still being kind character. Now I want to see him no matter > what role he's in. He's another very talented but under-rated actor, in my opinion. He's a come a long way from "21 Jump Street"! But he does tend to do the less-commercial and more outlandish movies, like Gilbert Grape, Edward Scissorhands, and Ed Wood. But that's all the more reason to like him - the fact that he hasn't sold out by doing the commercial "hit" movies (where you need a pretty face more than good acting ability). He seems to take roles that stretch his abilities. I'm rambling, but hopefully you know what I mean! Hell ____________________________ "To have great poets, there must be great audiences too." - Walt Whitman hell@ihug.co.nz Visit the NBLs (Natural Born Losers) at: http://www.nbls.co.nz ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 2 Feb 2001 18:22:04 EST From: MGVal@aol.com Subject: Re: Parched Ribs of Sand In a message dated 02/02/2001 3:15:18 PM Pacific Standard Time, hell@ihug.co.nz writes: << But could this lyric also be referring to the biblical "woman was made from Adam's rib?" The fact that she says "ribs at his side" always made me think of this. >> Both great takes. I've always loved this set of lyrics and always took it to mean that with: "now I am surf rising," she, as a person, is pretty substantial and powerful within this relationship. Her identity is not lost to his identity and his needs. With "parched ribs of sand at his side" I see the lows in a relationship where you are not sure where you are. Are you feeling strong and confident? Or are you just some inconsequential speck of sand clinging to his side? Jackson Browne has a great line about lovers and one's sense of self in relationships that works well with my interpretation. From "Sky Blue and Black," it goes: "where the touch of a lover ends and the soul of the friend begins, there's a need to be separate and a need to be one and a struggle neither wins." "Strange Boy" and its many images gets a top slot in my list of favorite Joni images. MG np: peace and quiet before the school kids come home PS Thanks Leslie for the pork website!!! ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 2 Feb 2001 18:45:43 EST From: MP123A321@aol.com Subject: Joni cover I couldn't find reference to this cover on JMDL /Joni uncovered or the Looking for list....it may be an instrumental cover....I can't recall. Song: Both Sides, Now Artist: Nitty Gritty Dirt Band Title: Will The Circle Be Unbroken Release date : 1972 I was reminded of this Dirt Band LP recently because it has the song "The Tennessee Stud" on it and I just received an incredible live version of Gillian Welch doing that tune...my second fave to her phenomenal live version of "Caleb Meyer". I may buy the NGDB release soon (again), from what I recall it is excellent and has lots of big name country artists accompanying the band. It is available on CD although it could be pricey considering it was a 3 LP set. Maurice ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 2 Feb 2001 18:44:14 -0500 From: "Victor Johnson" Subject: Re: performances [was: Thinking too much...] NJC He's another very talented but under-rated actor, in my opinion. He's a > come a long way from "21 Jump Street"! But he does tend to do the > less-commercial and more outlandish movies, like Gilbert Grape, Edward > Scissorhands, and Ed Wood. "Dead Man", a b&w film starring Johnny Depp is one of my favorite movies. And Neil Young does an awesome soundtrack! Victor, off to see Sam Shaber at Eddie's Attic Victor Johnson http://www.cdbaby.com/victorjohnson "Just beyond the morning falls the river of your dreams, Escaping from the day these wild creatures run away." Victor Johnson ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 2 Feb 2001 20:45:58 -0300 From: "Wally Kairuz" Subject: anima njc but it's been inside you all the time rose love!!!!! according to jungian theory there are three ways we relate with our anima/animus. we 1- identify with it 2- project it 3- assimilate it if you learn from your dreams and visions, you will understand the messages from your animus. jung sustains that dreams are a constant conversation with the anima/animus. as we learn to understand symbols, we identify the ever-present archetypes. because they are abstract, archetypes can be expressed or verbalized only in myths, allegories, lore. the tarot deck, especially the major arcana, is but a collection of pictures representing archetypical knowledge. the zodiac, the elements, the planets, the great spirit, virgin mary, the holy trinity, they are all embodiments of archetypes, and many of these representations are facets of the anima/animus. so if your looking for your other half, look to your dreams. now, what i'm looking for is gentleman with hefty privates! jung ain't helping much here. wallyK - -----Mensaje original----- De: owner-joni@jmdl.com [mailto:owner-joni@jmdl.com]En nombre de RoseMJoy@aol.com Enviado el: Viernes, 02 de Febrero de 2001 09:43 a.m. Para: barbearuh@erols.com CC: joni@smoe.org Asunto: Re: petrified wood When we fall in love at first sight, then we have found someone that "fills" our anima or animus archetype particularly well! I'm still looking for that other half.........lol Still thinking about this........ Rose in NJ ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 2 Feb 2001 20:55:05 -0300 From: "Wally Kairuz" Subject: RE: petrified wood yeah, i always thought so, hell. the guy's saying, '' whoa, whoa, whoa, the bitch thinks that because she's got all this shit she learnt at school she's gonna set herself free. baby, not in million years. nature made you a man's slave: that's you're guilt of eden: you'll serve your man and you'll give birth in pain. now go get me a drink or better yet, shut up and blow me.'' [the latter added by me for extra drama!] wallyK - -----Mensaje original----- De: owner-joni@jmdl.com [mailto:owner-joni@jmdl.com]En nombre de hell Enviado el: Viernes, 02 de Febrero de 2001 07:16 p.m. Para: JMDL Asunto: Re: petrified wood There have been some interesting interpretations on this, but my take is this: She's arguing with this guy (who seems very egocentric and chauvanistic) saying women have been downtrodden for too long. The lines: > anima rising > queen of queens > wash my guilt of eden seem to be saying "I'm not going to be held responsible for Eve's actions with the apple and the snake" then later when she says: > i'm leaving on the 1:15 > you're darn right > since i was seventeen > i've had no one over me > he says "anima rising - > so what - > petrified wood process > tall timber down to rock!" She's saying that she's an independent woman, and that she does as she pleases. His response is very chauvanistic and belittling: "Yeah, well, you can fight that battle as long as you like - but it takes thousands of years for wood to turn to stone, and that's how long it'll take women to be equal with men." Just my two cents... Hell ____________________________ "To have great poets, there must be great audiences too." - Walt Whitman hell@ihug.co.nz Visit the NBLs (Natural Born Losers) at: http://www.nbls.co.nz ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 2 Feb 2001 18:58:56 -0500 From: "cassy" Subject: Re: Covert complicity;notches Rose said: >>> I know some of you may not want to hear this, but Joni has been influenced by Occultism (The Tarot, Astrology, I Ching) at some point in her life. Scorpions are attracted to such things and it was very popular in the 60's/early seventies. I think Wally can vouch for me on this one as we've discussed this. <<< I've been watching this thread and can't help but think that Joni is familiar with the Goddess Kali. Kali is the epitome of the vengeful goddess. Kali says: "I AM the Annihilator of all and anything that is not worthy of keeping." " . . . Blessed ones, you must march forward. Thus, you have sung the song to the Sun that is sung by pilgrims marching to the Sun away from dead and dying worlds. This is the true march and the singing as they face the Light and never look back but march on on that Cosmic Highway." "And therefore, these ones, having, as it were, Ribbons of Light flowing behind them as attachment to the etheric spheres of their home stars, become as those who take the best and leave the rest and thus take home the harvest in their Spheres [Causal Bodies] of Light and let the rest wait for the dissolution of worlds. (ring a bell? "you imitate the best and the rest you analyze"?) "Therefore, when you make the call, I, Kali, shall release that Sacred Fire into the core of evil. Let the call go forth! For I AM here and I have had enough. And I say, enough is enough!" If anyone is interested in tying this in with DITS more information can be found at: http://www.ascension-research.org/kali1.htm Cassy NP: Joe Sample "Ashes to Ashes" ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 2 Feb 2001 19:03:30 EST From: SCJoniGuy@aol.com Subject: Re: Joni cover << Song: Both Sides, Now Artist: Nitty Gritty Dirt Band >> Hey Maurice! That IS in fact an instrumental, and it's by Randy Scruggs. It's on one of the Volume 2 CD's, really a very pretty version! Bob NP: Hole, "Hit So Hard" ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 02 Feb 2001 19:24:16 -0500 From: dsk Subject: Re: performances NJC hell wrote: > He's another very talented but under-rated actor, in my opinion. He's a > come a long way from "21 Jump Street"! But he does tend to do the > less-commercial and more outlandish movies, like Gilbert Grape, Edward > Scissorhands, and Ed Wood. But that's all the more reason to like him - the > fact that he hasn't sold out by doing the commercial "hit" movies (where you > need a pretty face more than good acting ability). He seems to take roles > that stretch his abilities. I'm rambling, but hopefully you know what I > mean! Yes, I know what you mean. I watched "Fear and Loathing in Las Vegas" recently and he was not a pretty face at all, in fact I hardly recognized him. He completely gave himself away to become Hunter Thompson in that movie. I was very impressed with his performance (and willingness to take on such a role), even though the movie itself left me a little cold. Debra Shea ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 2 Feb 2001 19:20:19 EST From: Relayer211@aol.com Subject: Re: Covert complicity;notches In a message dated 2/2/01 7:07:28 PM Eastern Standard Time, cassysweet@msn.com writes: << I've been watching this thread and can't help but think that Joni is familiar with the Goddess Kali. Kali is the epitome of the vengeful goddess. >> Remember the Donovan song, that Judy Collins had a cover of:"Sunny Goodge street"?There is a mention of the Kali Goddess in that song. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 2 Feb 2001 20:00:38 EST From: AzeemAK@aol.com Subject: Joni Cover Alert I can't remember if anyone has already posted about this, but I heard a short interview with Brian Kennedy on London Live this evening, on which it was mentioned that his forthcoming compilation album will include a Joni cover - and guess what, it's another version of A Case of You. After Diana Krall's version, I'm not sure anyone else can add much to the song, but let's see; the man can certainly sing. Azeem in London NP: Jill Sobule - Pilar (Things Here Are Different) ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 2 Feb 2001 20:00:43 EST From: AzeemAK@aol.com Subject: (no subject) Hi folks, some of you may remember a discussion about Darryl Purpose about a year and a half ago (briefly, someone mentioned him, in the context of a recent release, which reminded me of when I'd met him many years previously at a gig in a tiny venue in London - we subsequently exchanged emails, when the lister, whose identity I've forgotten, forwarded my post to the list on to Darryl). Well, he was in town about 10 days ago, so I went to see him. It was a great gig: Darryl is a great songwriter and performer, and a very interesting guy - he used to play blackjack for a living (!) and had some great war stories. I bought one of his CDs, an acoustic, as-live collection, and it's terrific. He has a real gift for story telling, and a wonderful ear for a memorable line. One song starts off with "Mr Schwinn was as thin as a pelican's grin" - isn't that great?! There's another song, called singer-songwriter heaven, which is about what you'd expect, and much better than you could hope for, a worthy companion piece to Leonard Cohen's Tower of Song. Azeem in London NP: silence, thank god - a few minutes ago it was water gushing down from my kitchen ceiling! I had to rouse the couple upstairs from their slumbers (fitting revenge for the number of times they've woken me up with loud music or loud bonking :-) - it was their washing machine, which seems to be sorted now, although I won't be using my oven tomorrow, as a lot of water landed right on it :-( ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 2 Feb 2001 20:24:20 -0500 From: "Janine Sherman" Subject: strange, strange boy I've been wondering about the following lines from "A Strange Boy": <"Now I am surf rising Now parched ribs of sand at his side"> My take on it goes like this- "surf rising"- she is woman hear her roar, she is robust, confident, energized, capable; powerful..... ( grown-up?) "parched ribs"- now she has been reduced to that rib of Adam's - an extension of HIM -after the surf hit the beach..... ( give me one good reason why?) You know, another brilliant example of duality from our LOTC. Janine Sherman@netrax.net ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 2 Feb 2001 20:07:45 -0500 From: "Megan" Subject: Petrified wood Barbara, How beautifully put. I was basically attempting to say the same thing, only I'm not as eloquent as you are. I love this song, too, which is why I chose your below quote as one of my favorite Joni images.The song is both uplifting and empowering at the same time. I never tire of hearing it. Take care, Megan :~) the ancient crown.The imagery suggests a man in a bar, and a female figure part waitress, part girlfriend...? >What's completly unclear to me is whether the first time the anima rises- > anima rising > queen of queens > wash my guilt of eden > wash and balance me > anima rising > uprising in me tonight > she's a vengeful little goddess > with an ancient crown to fight > -- if it is a strength arising in the woman,or the feminine spirit rising in the man.The verse in and of itself >suggests the latter, but when she leaves, it seems the former-- > I'm leaving on the 1:15 > you're darn right > since I was seventeen > I've had noone over me > he says,"anima rising-- > so what-- > Petrified wood process > tall timber down to rock!" > To me this says it takes a very very long time to make a sea change and that women are not going to get >their equal position for ages to come, that he's brushing off her feminist position. > barbara > ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 2 Feb 2001 20:19:19 -0500 From: "Megan" Subject: Re: Covert complicity;notches - ----- Original Message ----- From: To: ; ; Cc: Sent: Friday, February 02, 2001 4:44 PM Subject: Re: Covert complicity;notches > In a message dated 2/2/01 4:28:45 PM Eastern Standard Time, > anima_rising@yahoo.ca writes: > > << So maybe if you're "polite" and you act > the way others expect you to act, you won't be burned > (literally or figuratively.) Somehow I don't think > I'm expressing this very well, so hope you understand > what I mean. >> > You've explained it perfectly Catherine. That's how I interpret her lyrics > here as well. I know some of you may not want to hear this, but Joni has been > influenced by Occultism (The Tarot, Astrology, I Ching) at some point in her > life. Scorpions are attracted to such things and it was very popular in the > 60's/early seventies. I think Wally can vouch for me on this one as we've > discussed this. > It's just been my observation and the way I see things. > > -Rose Rose, I had heard that as well many years ago, and she herself indicates it in "Song for Sharon": There's a gypsy down on Bleeker Street I went in to see her as a kind of joke And she lit a candle for my love luck And eighteen bucks went up in smoke. So I definitly think you're right on this one, Rose.Thanks for the input--- Peace, Megan :~) ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 2 Feb 2001 20:44:07 EST From: SCJoniGuy@aol.com Subject: Re: Joni Cover Alert << his forthcoming compilation album will include a Joni cover - >> Azeem, You say this is a comp, which means this version of ACOY is most likely the same one he released on his CD "Take Me Home"...we've got it, and it's a beauty! Better than Krall IMO! Bob NP: Morning Morgantown, from Second Fret Sets ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 2 Feb 2001 19:59:32 -0600 From: "Gerald" Subject: Re: Parched Ribs of Sand Leslie wrote: Since I'm a visually oriented person in my mind's eye I can see those "parched ribs" as mounds of sand on the beach that are created by the tides. - ----------------------------------------------------------------------- I always wondered what that was all about. I like this interpretation, Leslie. It seems so obvious to me now. Gerald ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 2 Feb 2001 20:48:08 -0500 From: "Megan" Subject: Petrified wood Hi Rose, I found this entire post utterly fascinating. I have to go look this stuff up in my old psychology books on Jung-- it was so long ago I don't remember any of this (or was possibly asleep in class--should have paid attention!) This helps to completely pull the whole thing together for me---thank you SO much. After 25 years , thanks to you, Catherine, Barbara and Mark, I finally feel like I have a good grasp on it. *I love this list!* Gratefully, Megan :~) > The anima is the female aspect present in the collective unconscious of men, and the animus is the male >aspect present in the collective unconscious of women.Together, they are referred to as syzygy.The anima >may be personified as a young girl,very spontaneous and intuitive, or as a witch, or as the earth mother. >It is likely to be associated with deep emotionality and the force of life itself.The animus may be personified >as a wise old man, a sorcerer, or often a number of males,and tends to be logical, often rationalistic, even argumentative> ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 2 Feb 2001 21:10:15 EST From: Murphycopy@aol.com Subject: aimee mann alert For you Aimee Mann lovers on the list, she is scheduled to appear on tonight's Letterman show. Have a nice weekend, --Bob ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 2 Feb 2001 21:18:37 -0500 From: "Victor Johnson" Subject: Sam Shaber Rocks! (NJC) Just got back from seeing Sam Shaber at Eddie's Attic. She put on a great show along with her friend Trina, from Minnesota (who can play the hell out of a harmonica and did the most awesome accapella version of Jimi Hendrix "Angel" to close out the evening), and a local singer named Mimi. Thanks Ashara for turning me on to her. I mentioned that we were going to have a little Joni Mitchell gathering in New York and she said to keep her posted. She has some great energy! It's contagious... Victor NP: John Coltrane-Africa(alternate take) Victor Johnson http://www.cdbaby.com/victorjohnson "Just beyond the morning falls the river of your dreams, Escaping from the day these wild creatures run away." Victor Johnson ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 2 Feb 2001 21:29:50 EST From: Merk54@aol.com Subject: Re: Parched Ribs of Sand I might be looking at all wrong, but I always saw this as Joni being brutally honest about her participation in this relationship. One minute she thinks he's foolish and childish, the next he just needs love and understanding. One minute she is giving him her warm body, and the next she is yelling at him to Grow Up!. One minute she's surf rising (bouyant, lifting him, supporting him, giving him a ride if you will) the next minute she parched ribs of sand at his side (scratchy, irritating - like sand in your underwear). ,,,And on love the strongest poison and medicine of all Jack ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 2 Feb 2001 22:02:10 EST From: TerryM2222@aol.com Subject: Re: Dr. Sigmondengreen Has a New Gig!(NJC) Vey, Jody. Chow I meezed you all. Sank you for greeting me so kindly. Ant I be chappy to analyze chany dreams fore ze list. Especially ven it comes to ze Joni dreams. Many goot vishes to mine frient Brian for a speety recovery. May he be vell enuf soon to enchoy Mag's chicken soup. Such a gift she chas for ze cooking, no? Ant to Vally, cho sank so sveetly in Boston- may your heart cheel quickly, too, mine kinderlachen. Such a mensch shoot not haf such pain. Ant to all, es goot to be bak. No? Dr. SigMondegreen In a message dated 1/31/2001 9:17:29 PM Eastern Standard Time, johnsonjs@earthlink.net writes: << No wonder you've been so busy all this time! I just went to your sight at www.addconsults.com Your hard work has definitely made an impact, and will continue to do so. I'm so thrilled for you!!! Congratulations! But, Pleaze do us zee favOR of popping inz vrom timez to time. Ve canz be a zick bunch, you know. Ve needs you andz lovez you! I hope you are not too busy to play your guitar, for that which you are so gifted. Then I'd have to kill you :~D My Best to you Terry! >> www.addconsults.com ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 2 Feb 2001 22:03:53 EST From: TerryM2222@aol.com Subject: Re: favorite image Mike, Thanks for the compliment, but we all have good taste on this list, eh? The song I'm referring to below is For The Roses. Terry In a message dated 2/1/2001 8:02:13 AM Eastern Standard Time, m_hicks@aiken.k12.sc.us writes: << On your mark red ribbon runner > The caressing rev of motors > Finely tuned like fancy women > In thirties evening gowns > > Terry Terry, You have good taste. Lyrics don't get any better than this. Can't you just see all this as she sings it? It's one of the things that sets her apart from others. I'm drawing a blank on the last one. Where did that one come from? >> www.addconsults.com ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 2 Feb 2001 19:24:16 -0800 From: "Mark or Travis" Subject: Re: Your nachos? Liberation, doll! Jung's concept (easy enough to do), > or blatently ignoring it in an attempt (in the lyric > anyways) to connect herself with a feminine power. > This is what I was thinking. I haven't read or studied Jung but I have looked anima & animus up in the dictionary. It seems to me she is referring to the feminine spirit, period. Not necessarily in the male pysche. That and the reference to 'a vengeful little goddess' is why I speculated that the reference might be to a stone or wooden idol. I'm certainly not convinced that that is the case. But my gut has always told me that the male in the song is telling the woman that she is responsible for his weakness & dissolution. She is reducing the living 'tall timber' of his masculinity & virility' down to nothing but hard, unyielding & lifeless 'rock.' He refers to the glasses of wine he drinks as her 'notches' as if she feels some kind of satisfaction or victory at making him into a drunk. All through the song he is blaming her for his downfall while trying to assert his superiority & right to be deferred to. She has finally had enough of it and is absolving herself of that responsibility. No more will she accept the 'guilt of Eden' and she has called on the female spirit to cleanse, release & acquit her of this false charge. As to 'in flames our prophet witches', I think that's a reference to times when women who were unmarried, independent & intelligent or skilled in healing or had special talents or were just different from the 'norm' in some way were sometimes accused, convicted & burned as witches. It was another way that women were subjugated to patriarchal rule. If a woman was intelligent with an independent spirit she'd better hide it or 'be polite' as it were. Otherwise the consequences could be dire. I hope nobody thinks I sound like I have *the* definitive interpretation of this or any other lyric. I certainly don't intend to convey that. I agree that we all see Joni's songs from our own perspectives and there is no one 'right' way to interpret them. Mark in Seattle ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 2 Feb 2001 19:26:45 -0800 From: "Mark or Travis" Subject: Re: Covert complicity;notches > How about this? People, usually women, were burned at > the stake for being "witches". These so-called > witches were often wise women or healers - they had a > power or an insight that many people didn't have (thus > prophets), but because they didn't fit into the usual > norm, or because someone else was jealous of them, > they would be cast into the role of "witch" or heretic > and burned. So maybe if you're "polite" and you act > the way others expect you to act, you won't be burned > (literally or figuratively.) Somehow I don't think > I'm expressing this very well, so hope you understand > what I mean. I think you expressed it better than I did in my 'corkscrew English.' I wish I'd read your post before I sent my last one. Mark in Seattle ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 2 Feb 2001 19:45:27 -0800 From: "Mark or Travis" Subject: Re: Dr. Sigmondengreen Has a New Gig!(NJC) > Ant to all, es goot to be bak. No? > > Dr. SigMondegreen Es goot to hef you bak. Yes! Mark in Seattle ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 2 Feb 2001 20:01:45 -0800 From: "Mark or Travis" Subject: more favorites Still the winter days unfold Like magazines fading in dusty gray attics and cellars - ----- Come down from the neon nights Run down from the tourist sights Run down where the rain delights you You do not hide Sunlight will renew your pride Skin white by skin golden - ----- Give me some time I feel like I'm losing mine Out here on this horizon line With the earth spinning & the sky forever rushing - ----- I'm just living on nerves & feelings With a weak & a lazy mind And coming to people's parties Fumbling, deaf, dumb & blind - ----- A woman I knew just drowned herself The well was deep & muddy She was just shaking off futility Or punishing somebody My friends were calling up all day yesterday All emotions and abstractions It seems we all live so close to that line And so far from satisfaction - ----- Once in awhile in a big blue moon There comes a night like this Like some surrealist Invented this night ride home Mark in Seattle ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 2 Feb 2001 23:51:53 -0500 From: "Janine Sherman" Subject: PBS Home video CSN Reporting a Joni moment (not even close to Les', but OK for Pennsylvania) Tonight my husband and I were watching our PBS Home Video of CSN in 1991 from San Fran's Warfield Theatre and all through it I am blabbing about Joni's associations with these guys through the years and he keeps saying," I don't see any "her" up there, let's just listen to them- in other words "could you please shut up about JONI" and then near the finale when Graham sits down at the piano to play "Our House" he says right into the mike " God Bless you, Joni" Of course, I jumped up and rewound it and played it real LOUD!!!!!!!! Do unto others as you would like done to you Janine Sherman@netrax.net ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 3 Feb 2001 02:00:41 -0300 From: "Wally Kairuz" Subject: RE: Dr. Sigmondengreen Has a New Gig!(NJC) zee doctor's bock!!!!!!!!!!!! chow vunnerful, no? vally, K - -----Mensaje original----- De: owner-joni@jmdl.com [mailto:owner-joni@jmdl.com]En nombre de TerryM2222@aol.com Enviado el: Sabado, 03 de Febrero de 2001 12:02 a.m. Para: johnsonjs@earthlink.net; joni@smoe.org Asunto: Re: Dr. Sigmondengreen Has a New Gig!(NJC) Vey, Jody. Chow I meezed you all. Sank you for greeting me so kindly. Ant I be chappy to analyze chany dreams fore ze list. Especially ven it comes to ze Joni dreams. Many goot vishes to mine frient Brian for a speety recovery. May he be vell enuf soon to enchoy Mag's chicken soup. Such a gift she chas for ze cooking, no? Ant to Vally, cho sank so sveetly in Boston- may your heart cheel quickly, too, mine kinderlachen. Such a mensch shoot not haf such pain. Ant to all, es goot to be bak. No? Dr. SigMondegreen In a message dated 1/31/2001 9:17:29 PM Eastern Standard Time, johnsonjs@earthlink.net writes: << No wonder you've been so busy all this time! I just went to your sight at www.addconsults.com Your hard work has definitely made an impact, and will continue to do so. I'm so thrilled for you!!! Congratulations! But, Pleaze do us zee favOR of popping inz vrom timez to time. Ve canz be a zick bunch, you know. Ve needs you andz lovez you! I hope you are not too busy to play your guitar, for that which you are so gifted. Then I'd have to kill you :~D My Best to you Terry! >> www.addconsults.com ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 3 Feb 2001 00:45:16 -0500 From: "Nikki Johnson" Subject: Visiting Brian (NJC) Hi! I wanted to post about my visit to see Brian and Mags at the hospital. Brian is doing very well in his recovery and even went up and down some stairs today. I got there and he was sitting up and looking well. Brian, Mags and I cried, laughed and everything in between. it was so good to see them, just wish the circumstances were different. It looks as if he gets to leave on Sun. I am so glad I got to go and give my love and also on behalf of the JMDL and let him know how everyone was thinking of him. Mags leaves tomorrow and has been great support for him also. Such sweet and kind people:-) Love Nikki "Dream on but don't imagine they'll all come true...Vienna waits for you" ~ Billy Joel ------------------------------ End of JMDL Digest V2001 #56 **************************** ------- Post messages to the list by clicking here: mailto:joni@smoe.org Unsubscribe by clicking here: mailto:joni-digest-request@smoe.org?body=unsubscribe ------- Siquomb, isn't she?