From: les@jmdl.com (JMDL Digest) To: joni-digest@smoe.org Subject: JMDL Digest V2001 #53 Reply-To: joni@smoe.org Sender: les@jmdl.com Errors-To: les@jmdl.com Precedence: bulk Unsubscribe: mailto:joni-digest-request@smoe.org?body=unsubscribe Archives: http://www.smoe.org/lists/joni Websites: http://www.jmdl.com http://www.jonimitchell.com JMDL Digest Thursday, February 1 2001 Volume 2001 : Number 053 The 'Official' Joni Mitchell Homepage, created by Wally Breese, can be found at http://www.jonimitchell.com. It contains the latest news, a detailed bio, Original Interviews, essays, lyrics and much much more. The JMDL website can be found at http://www.jmdl.com and contains interviews, articles, the member gallery, archives, and much more. ========== TOPICS and authors in this Digest: -------- Re: Jobless NJC ["hell" ] Re: The most depressing news program ever NJC ["hell" ] Re: Thinking too much about the Grammy Awards ["hell" ] Eva Cassidy NJC ["Ross, Les" ] joni lyrics ["Greer, Ron" ] Re: favorite image ["Mike Hicks" ] Re: Listening to Joni before dying [SCJoniGuy@aol.com] Brian update (NJC) [AsharaJM@aol.com] Re: Listening to Joni before dying [Merk54@aol.com] so happy to be part of this community [Anne Sandstrom ] Looking for Duane Kashak NJC [RoseMJoy@aol.com] Re: Kate's Web cast: Tuesday, 2AM GMT [Phyliss Ward ] Re: Never Ever Too Late NJC [Catherine McKay ] contritely!!!!!!! njc ["Wally Kairuz" ] Re: Lanois Studio Gone For Good [Catherine McKay ] Re: More Brian News (NJC) ["Lori R. Fye" ] Re: Kate's Web cast: Tuesday, 2AM GMT [Catherine McKay ] Re: a few favorites [Catherine McKay ] Re: Joni moment #4,602 [Catherine McKay ] Re: feb 1!!!!!!!!!!! njc [RoseMJoy@aol.com] Joni moment #4,602 [Steve Dulson ] image for today ["J.David Sapp" ] Re: Kate's Web cast: Tuesday, 2AM GMT ["Stephen Epstein" ] Re: joni lyrics ["Victor Johnson" ] Re: image for today [SCJoniGuy@aol.com] mp3's - NJC [Jerry Notaro ] Joni moment #4,602 ["Jim L'Hommedieu" ] Re: mp3's - NJC [SCJoniGuy@aol.com] Mingus Documentary ["cassy" ] Kate's Web cast: Tuesday, 2AM GMT ["Kate Bennett" ] Re: Mingus Documentary [SCJoniGuy@aol.com] Re: most admired image ["Lonely Painter" ] Flying Joni [Merk54@aol.com] too many fave lyrics now ["Lonely Painter" ] Joni's paintings on the net? [Richard Goldman ] Songs of Parenting [JRMCo1@aol.com] Songs of Parenting [JRMCo1@aol.com] Re: Joni's paintings on the net? [SCJoniGuy@aol.com] Re: Songs of Parenting - NJC [Jerry Notaro ] Re: Larry Coryell (NJC) [FredNow@aol.com] Attn All E-Bay'ers [SCJoniGuy@aol.com] Re: Larry Coryell (NJC) [SCJoniGuy@aol.com] Jaco Who Loves You? ["Michael Paz" ] Re: Attn All E-Bay'ers [Jerry Notaro ] Joni Paintings on the Net [SMEBD@aol.com] Re: Attn All E-Bay'ers ["cassy" ] meet the beatles!!!!! njc ["Wally Kairuz" ] Re: Joni's paintings on the net? [Richard Goldman ] Re: Attn All E-Bay'ers [RoseMJoy@aol.com] Re: Attn All E-Bay'ers [SCJoniGuy@aol.com] Re: Attn All E-Bay'ers [SCJoniGuy@aol.com] Re: Attn All E-Bay'ers [RoseMJoy@aol.com] Re: Attn All E-Bay'ers [WirlyPearl@aol.com] Re: a few favorites [Michael Paz ] ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Thu, 1 Feb 2001 21:18:17 +1300 From: "hell" Subject: Re: Jobless NJC Rose wrote: > I'm thinking seriously about going back to school to pursue a new career. Do > you think it's too late? I've already contacted my old Art Professor. > He's still there! He's done a wonderful job with the expansion of the art > department. A little grayer though. I still don't know what I want to be when > I grow up. lol Something in the visual art field. And just to add my two cents - it's never too late! Good luck! Hell ____________________________ "To have great poets, there must be great audiences too." - Walt Whitman hell@ihug.co.nz Visit the NBLs (Natural Born Losers) at: http://www.nbls.co.nz ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 1 Feb 2001 21:22:45 +1300 From: "hell" Subject: Re: The most depressing news program ever NJC Chris wrote: > There then followed the first coverage that > I've seen of the earthquake in India. Estimates > range from 20,000 dead to 100,000. I knew > some days ago about the quake, but hadn't seen > any coverage until now. My brother is holidaying in India at the moment, and was only 300km away when the earthquake struck. Having lived in Wellington (which is overdue for "the big one") he knew what was happening straight away, and got out of the decrepit building he was in - having first convinced the other tourists that this was in fact an earthquake, and there was considerable danger. Luckily (for him) the building remained standing, but he said the quake was over 2 minutes long. Those of you familiar with earthquakes will now that is a VERY long time. He emailed us as soon as he could, to let us know he was OK. It's horrible to think of the number dead, injured and homeless in India, but at the same time, I'm pretty thankful that he was far enough away to be safe. Hell ____________________________ "To have great poets, there must be great audiences too." - Walt Whitman hell@ihug.co.nz Visit the NBLs (Natural Born Losers) at: http://www.nbls.co.nz ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 1 Feb 2001 21:34:15 +1300 From: "hell" Subject: Re: Thinking too much about the Grammy Awards Kerry wrote: > Does anyone else feel conflicted about award shows, namely the Grammys? > I've always had major problems with them, but yet I still watch and cheer if > someone I like "wins." My problems with them are: 1) They usually ignore a > VAST number of talented (yet lesser known) artists, 2) The categories are > too broad and they end up throwing very different artists together (for > example, Joni and Christina A. - light years away from each other > musically). 3) They supposedly honor musical quality, but most of the > nominees are groups who have sold millions of albums in the past year. > > With all of these problems, I will still watch and hope Joni wins. Is this > weird or what? Can anyone help me with this debilitating problem? I may > need therapy.....:>) I feel exactly the same way (see, we do have something in common ;o) ) about the Grammy's. I always watch, and I'm always disappointed that the "good" stuff gets overlooked. Obviously it's only my opinion, but record sales don't necessarily mean that the music is worth what it's sold for. I'd take one Joni album over a thousand Britany Spears! I feel a little the same about the Academy Awards. You always pretty much know who's getting the Oscar before it starts, and I get frustrated sometimes that there can only ever be one winner in each category. For example (and don't flame me for this one) I thought Tom Cruise's performance in Rain Man was as equally deserving of an Oscar as Dustin Hoffman's. It was the one movie that convinced me that he could actually act. Of course you have to ignore Cocktail and Risky Business at the same time! Hell ____________________________ "To have great poets, there must be great audiences too." - Walt Whitman hell@ihug.co.nz Visit the NBLs (Natural Born Losers) at: http://www.nbls.co.nz ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 1 Feb 2001 08:48:08 -0000 From: "Ross, Les" Subject: Eva Cassidy NJC Hi Last night the BBC played a clip of Eva Cassidy singing a version of "Somewhere over the Rainbow" in a club somewhere. She accompanied herself solo on guitar. They reported that it was one of their most requested clips. In a stream of text running below the screen they reported, among other things, that she would have been 38 next birthday so I guess she has gone to that great gig in the sky - bloody hell, what a loss. I thought that she was brilliant and would very much like to investigate her work a little more. I would appreciate recommendations for which albums to go for - I assume she must have a body of work to check out. What is the genre of music she performs within? What on earth happened to her? Something in the back of my mind tells me that she has been discussed on this list somewhere but I may be wrong here - I have the retentive memory of a soapdish. Many thanks, in anticipation. Les (London) ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 1 Feb 2001 13:03:48 +0200 From: "Greer, Ron" Subject: joni lyrics hi >IVPAUL42 wrote (well actually - quoted) >"Love is touching souls; >surely you've touched mine >cause part of you >pours out of me >in these lines >from time to time." **WOW*** i was just sitting here at work, reading through the digest. came across this one & it just hit me so damn hard the the tears started pouring down my cheeks - at the precise moment someone walked in!! somewhat embarassing................... this has got be one of the most beautiful images of love ive ever read. there is just so much, so perfectly said in those 2 lines - "cause part of you/pours out of me" leaves me shaking my head in admiration, and my eyes tearing up still every time i read it.... ron ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 1 Feb 2001 08:27:44 -0500 From: "Mike Hicks" Subject: Re: favorite image > From: TerryM2222@aol.com > Date: Mon, 29 Jan 2001 23:11:08 EST > Subject: Re: favorite image > To: joni@smoe.org > Reply-to: TerryM2222@aol.com > A helicopter lands on the Pan Am roof > Like a dragonfly on a tomb > > Big boat chuggin' back with a belly full of cars > > On your mark red ribbon runner > The caressing rev of motors > Finely tuned like fancy women > In thirties evening gowns > > Terry Terry, You have good taste. Lyrics don't get any better than this. Can't you just see all this as she sings it? It's one of the things that sets her apart from others. I'm drawing a blank on the last one. Where did that one come from? Mike ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 01 Feb 2001 08:26:35 EST From: SCJoniGuy@aol.com Subject: Re: Listening to Joni before dying <> I think I'd just prefer to have a commercial radio station on, then I could be *glad* that I was dying! ;~) Bob, (who would probably want to also hear "A Chair In The Sky" & "Hejira"...) NP: David Byrne, "my love is you" ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 1 Feb 2001 08:58:02 EST From: AsharaJM@aol.com Subject: Brian update (NJC) Talked to Mags this morning, and Brain continues to get better. He is in his own room now, and Mags is able to be with him. She says he is already starting to get restless. I don't know how he will ever "relax" for the many weeks they will want him to once he is out of the hospital! As Mags said, Brian is a warrior, nothing will keep him down. I know he will come through this stronger and better than ever, with his warrior woman at his side. Hugs, Ashara ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 1 Feb 2001 09:25:45 EST From: Merk54@aol.com Subject: Re: Listening to Joni before dying In a message dated 2/1/01 7:37:50 AM Central Standard Time, SCJoniGuy@aol.com writes: > I think I'd just prefer to have a commercial radio station on, then I could > be *glad* that I was dying! ;~) > Now that's funny!!! > Bob, (who would probably want to also hear "A Chair In The Sky" & > "Hejira"...) > > Two great choices - between the forceps and the stone.... Jack ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 1 Feb 2001 09:29:34 -0500 From: Anne Sandstrom Subject: so happy to be part of this community For some reason, we feel more than ever like a family to me this morning. Brian, what a terrific start to your recovery. I know Mags gets a lot of credit for this. We're all pulling for both of you! WallyK - oh so sad to hear your news. I'll be thinking of you. Sending everyone... lots of love Anne ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 01 Feb 2001 09:42:22 -0500 From: slarty Subject: Re: Larry Coryell (NJC) Emily Remler- absolutely love her version of "Searching" One of my favorite peices. Michael Paz wrote: > We chatted about a mutual friend who has long since > passed, Emily Remler. She was a fabulous jazz guitar player from New > Orleans. We talked about a gig they had done at the Jazz Fest in the Jazz > Tent. It was just the two of them and they were amazing. I wish I had a tape > of that show (didn't have the guts to ask if he had one). We also talked > about him being on my show next time he is down in New Orleans. > > Paz > > NP-If You Ever Did Believe-Stevie Nicks ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 1 Feb 2001 10:14:58 EST From: RoseMJoy@aol.com Subject: Looking for Duane Kashak NJC Does anyone know Duane Kashak? He was the JM.com reporter and photographer at the MSG concert in NYC in Nov.'98. I met him at the BSN concert and I still have his ticket stubs. I thought he might like to have these back. Duane if you're lurking out there, please email me. Sorry for the bandwidth, Rose in NJ ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 01 Feb 2001 07:17:20 -0800 From: Phyliss Ward Subject: Re: Kate's Web cast: Tuesday, 2AM GMT I'm going to be at a meeting but I may be able to tune into some of it on the computer there. Where do I go to get on??? I must have missed this earlier somehow! Jim L'Hommedieu wrote: > Kate's live web cast Monday, Feb 5 starts at 6 PM Pacific. Since Pacific > Time is GMT-8 hours, by my math, Kate's web cast starts at London Time > (Greenwich Mean Time) on Tuesday morning at 2 AM (GMT). - -- Phyliss, still skimming too much for her own good mailto:pward@datacourse.com ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 1 Feb 2001 12:46:51 -0300 From: "Wally Kairuz" Subject: feb 1!!!!!!!!!!! njc [everybody to the tune of cactus tree] there's this special guy on our list though he'll hardly ever post he's an angel and an artist so i'd like to make a toast! H A P P Y B I R T H D A Y JACK THE PAINTER!!!!!!!!!!! peace and love from coast to coast! you will love them when you see them and i mean his joni drawings they belong in a museum quit this hateful money hoarding! come out and donate!!!!!!!!!!! and give ashara a f_ing break! [all this to wish jack a happy birthday and to remind you all that ashara is tapping her foot and waiting for your jmdl donations. so...unless you want me to switch into my pbs pledge campaign mode... DONATE!!!!!] FAIRY ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 1 Feb 2001 11:02:52 -0500 (EST) From: Catherine McKay Subject: Re: Never Ever Too Late NJC - --- RoseMJoy@aol.com wrote: > In a message dated 1/31/01 3:05:13 PM Eastern > Standard Time, > anima_rising@yahoo.ca writes: > > << Looks mighty suspicious to me too. Did they give > you > a decent severance package? so you can pay for > going > back to school? (If not, maybe you can sue them!) > >> > As Brian would say, yeah right. No, they made it a > performance issue I guess > as a reason to get rid of me. Now mind you I just > got a decent review and pay > increase. I was I guess damaged goods to them. There > was a general ledger > account that wasn't reconciled. I tried and tried, > but I had problems with it > and they knew it. Later everyone denied knowing > anything about it to save > their own asses. > In the end they made me look like I wasn't > fulfilling my responsibilities. > I wish I had a drink to throw at them at the time > and say kiss my ass. Well, I'm no lawyer, and I'm sure labour laws differ from place to place but, if you had just recently had a good perf review and they threw you out on something like that, I'm pretty sure you'd get something out of them. Usually performance issues have to be ongoing situations where an issue has been identified and management has taken all steps to ensure that it's rectified before moving through to the dismissal process. Most companies I know of here (province of Ontario, Canada) would give the person some kind of severance package (a fairly decent one, that's in line with what "everyone else" is giving) just to avoid the possibility of litigation and/or bad press. If you worked for them for a long time, it may be in your interest to at least talk to a labour lawyer about it - - again, I don't know how it works where you are, but up here you'd probably get an hour or so free consultation and they'd tell you whether or not it was worth your while to pursue it - at no cost to you. Get your free @yahoo.ca address at http://mail.yahoo.ca ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 1 Feb 2001 13:10:17 -0300 From: "Wally Kairuz" Subject: contritely!!!!!!! njc emmy burns! [yeah but does she... SIZZLE?????????] eric wilcox! and that's an order: will them, bid them and subdue them! in any case, i skipped your birthdays and i'm sooooooooooooooorry! emmy burns for you every january 27. eric wills cox for the cost of admission on january 28. happiness and intoxication to both of you, mes enfants. the northbound fairy [it's a long long way to...CANADA!] ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 1 Feb 2001 11:12:02 -0500 (EST) From: Catherine McKay Subject: Re: Lanois Studio Gone For Good - --- Michael Paz wrote: > Hello All- > I was reading the paper today and they had a > lengthy article about > Daniel Lanois's studio closing up for good here. The > building is on the > market now for $1.5 mil if anyone is interested. I wish I had that kind of $$$. This sounds like an amazing evening - must admit the part I most enjoyed, in a sick kind of way is this: > I sat in one of > the big rooms during the evening and played Chinese > Cafe on the Grand Piano. > Some girl came up to me and asked me if I had > written the tune and I told no > that Joni Mitchell had written it. "Oh!", she said, > "who's that?" I don't > think she really wanted to know, it was probably > more of a "are you famous?" > type of thing. How do these people get invited to these things, anyway? Get your free @yahoo.ca address at http://mail.yahoo.ca ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 1 Feb 2001 08:13:28 -0800 (PST) From: "Lori R. Fye" Subject: Re: More Brian News (NJC) Ashara wrote: > Brian is off the ventilator, and doing really well. I am so happy and grateful to learn this. Praise be ... Lori in DC ~ __________________________________________________ Get personalized email addresses from Yahoo! Mail - only $35 a year! http://personal.mail.yahoo.com/ ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 1 Feb 2001 11:13:46 -0500 (EST) From: Catherine McKay Subject: Re: Kate's Web cast: Tuesday, 2AM GMT - --- Jim L'Hommedieu wrote: > Kate's live web cast Monday, Feb 5 starts at 6 PM > Pacific. Since Pacific > Time is GMT-8 hours, by my math, Kate's web cast > starts at London Time > (Greenwich Mean Time) on Tuesday morning at 2 AM > (GMT). > Eastern Standard Time is 3 (or is it only 2?) hours ahead of PST, which would make it start (here) at either 8p.m. or 9 p.m., n'est-ce pas? Get your free @yahoo.ca address at http://mail.yahoo.ca ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 1 Feb 2001 08:13:49 -0800 (PST) From: "Lori R. Fye" Subject: Re: Never Ever Too Late NJC Rose wrote, about losing her job: > In the end they made me look like I wasn't > fulfilling my responsibilities. Regardless of the fact that you were ready to leave, it's always a bit of a blow to be "canned." Sorry to hear about it, Rose. Perhaps you can take some consolation in the fact that it's ILLEGAL for them to trash you if someone calls for a reference. Doing so is grounds for a lawsuit. Keep your ears open. And good luck on your next adventure, whatever it may be. "One door closes, another opens." Lori in DC ~ __________________________________________________ Get personalized email addresses from Yahoo! Mail - only $35 a year! http://personal.mail.yahoo.com/ ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 1 Feb 2001 11:18:13 -0500 (EST) From: Catherine McKay Subject: Re: a few favorites - --- JRMCo1@aol.com wrote: > Mark favors: > > < Bashing in veins for peace > Cold blue steel & sweet fire > Fall into Lady Release>> > > This image is so utterly brilliant it give me > goose-flesh and makes me murmur "be still my beating > heart." The disarming alliteration. The > metaphorical duality. The symbolic juxtaposition. > The human frailty and mortality she lays bear. This is one that really gets me too. All those hard /k/ sounds; and the way Joni's voice goes with it - all this hard stuff, then "faaaaaaaaallll [seductively] into Lady Release." I find myself going "Me too" and "Oh, yeah", a lot in reading everyone's favourites but can't think of a durn one myself that someone else hasn't already brought up. The woman is a genius and even though I felt it, I don't think I ever really *realized* it until joining this list. Thanks, jmdlers - how nice to say "Joni Mitchell" and be with people who are more likely to say "Yessss!!" than "Who?" or "Isn't that the folk singer who sang that paid paradise song?" Get your free @yahoo.ca address at http://mail.yahoo.ca ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 1 Feb 2001 11:19:34 -0500 (EST) From: Catherine McKay Subject: Re: Joni moment #4,602 - --- Les Irvin wrote: > As we were being seated, I noticed a lot > of artwork hanging on > the walls. I began looking around at the paintings > and turned to see the > one right behind my chair on the wall. > > It was an original Joni Mitchell painting! > > Even more bizarre was that fact that it was one of > only about two pieces of > her artwork that I have displayed on the JMDL site - > seen here > http://www.jmdl.com/credits.cfm > Would it have fit under your coat, do you think? Could you have slipped it outa there without anyone noticing? Get your free @yahoo.ca address at http://mail.yahoo.ca ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 1 Feb 2001 11:20:30 EST From: RoseMJoy@aol.com Subject: Re: feb 1!!!!!!!!!!! njc HAPPY F*#$%NG BIRTHDAY JACK!!!! You're such a good fairy Wally. Yes, and please JMDLers start buying these beautiful Joni prints before too long. Ashara has yet to recoup her money she's invested in this Fundraiser. Sorry to hear about your recent breakup :~( Rose in NJ ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 1 Feb 2001 08:28:04 -0800 From: Steve Dulson Subject: Joni moment #4,602 Our estimed listmeister wrote: > I began looking around at the paintings and turned to see the >one right behind my chair on the wall Did anyone else wonder about that painting that Herbie Hancock was sitting in front of last night on Jazz? - -- ######################################################## Steve Dulson Costa Mesa CA steve@psitech.com "The Tinker's Own" http://www.tinkersown.com "Southern California Dulcimer Heritage" http://members.aol.com/scdulcimer/ "The Living Tradition Concert Series" http://www.thelivingtradition.org/ ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 1 Feb 2001 10:47:29 -0600 From: "J.David Sapp" Subject: image for today He stood looking thru the lace At the face on the conquered moon peace, david ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 1 Feb 2001 11:58:01 -0500 From: "Stephen Epstein" Subject: Re: Kate's Web cast: Tuesday, 2AM GMT Eastern time is 3 hrs ahead of Pacific, so it begins @9:00 pm Eastern. Regards, Stephen in Vancouver Catherine McKay on 02/01/2001 08:13:46 AM Please respond to Catherine McKay To: "Jim L'Hommedieu" , _JMDL cc: (bcc: Stephen Epstein/Agmont) Subject: Re: Kate's Web cast: Tuesday, 2AM GMT - --- Jim L'Hommedieu wrote: > Kate's live web cast Monday, Feb 5 starts at 6 PM > Pacific. Since Pacific > Time is GMT-8 hours, by my math, Kate's web cast > starts at London Time > (Greenwich Mean Time) on Tuesday morning at 2 AM > (GMT). > Eastern Standard Time is 3 (or is it only 2?) hours ahead of PST, which would make it start (here) at either 8p.m. or 9 p.m., n'est-ce pas? Get your free @yahoo.ca address at http://mail.yahoo.ca ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 01 Feb 2001 11:56:56 EST From: Merk54@aol.com Subject: Thanks and more (NJC) Wally, Thanks! You are amazing. With all you have going on in your life, you still found the time to wish me a happy birthday. Your story about your recent break up really touched me. I did a quick mental search for just the right Joni quote, and what came immediately to mind was the simple, but profound, "No regrets, Coyote". I had a similar breakup a long time ago, with someone I considered a soulmate (damn, she even loved Joni!). While I was pretty devastated at the time, I knew it was the right thing for both of us - like you said, we both still loved each other, we just could live with each other. This was right around the time that Hejira came out, and the album was like listening to my biography. Anyway, the line "No regrets, Coyote" really helped me to deal with the situation, because in the long run, I had no regrets about my relationship with this special woman, and I certainly got more out of it than I ever gave up. Peace, Jack ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 1 Feb 2001 12:37:36 EST From: RoseMJoy@aol.com Subject: Re: Joni moment #4,602 In a message dated 2/1/01 11:30:28 AM Eastern Standard Time, anima_rising@yahoo.ca writes: << Would it have fit under your coat, do you think? Could you have slipped it outa there without anyone noticing? Get your free @yahoo.ca address at http://mail.yahoo.ca >> LOL, what's the address of this place Les? - -Rose ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 1 Feb 2001 12:51:30 -0500 From: "Jim L'Hommedieu" Subject: NJC: Kate Bennett's Web Cast Sometimes a tiny bit of extra detail obfuscates rather than illuminates. Here's even *more* detail about Kate's webcast and times for various areas around the JMDL world. (I figured out the times so if they are wrong, it's my fault, not Kate's. - -------------------------------- Just to let you know that Kate Bennett will be coming to you courtesy of a LIVE WEBCAST on NWEZ's Femme Fatale Monday, February 5th, 6 to 10 pm Pacific Standard Time. it's free entertainment right in your own home!!!! Go to http://femmefatale.nu/femmefatale.htm to watch it live, listen in & talk to us by joining in the chatroom NWEZ.NET, Next World Entertainment Zone, offers cutting edge LIVE and interactive entertainment and is at the forefront of the Internet Revolution - --------------------------- Pacific Time: Monday Feb 5th 6-10 PM Central Time & Saskatchewan :) : Monday Feb 5th 7-11 PM Mountain Time: Monday Feb 5th 8 PM -Midnight Eastern Time: Monday Feb 5th 9 PM -1 AM (Tuesday Morning) Atlantic Time: Monday Feb 5th 10 PM - 2 AM (Tuesday Morning) London: Greenwich Mean Time: Tuesday Feb 6th 2 AM - 6 AM Vienna, Rome, & Amsterdam: GMT +1: Tuesday Feb 6th 3 AM - 7 AM Israel: GMT +2: Tuesday Feb 6th: 4 AM - 8 AM Moscow, St. Petersburg, Volgograd: GMT +3: Tuesday Feb 6th 5 AM - 9 AM Bangkok: GMT +7: Tuesday Feb 6th 9 AM- 1 PM Perth & Taipei: GMT +8: Tuesday Feb 6th 10 AM- 2 PM Brisbane, Melbourne, Sydney, Vladivostok, & Guam: GMT +10: Tuesday Feb 6th Noon- 4 PM Aukland: GMT + 12: Tuesday Feb 6th: 2 AM - 6 PM - ---------------------------- So it looks like it's a bad hour for Azeem, Colin, Marian, angela, & Uncle John but the rest of us have a decent shot. Anyway, enjoy. Lama ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 1 Feb 2001 12:57:00 -0500 From: "Victor Johnson" Subject: Re: joni lyrics We were driving in the car today, listening to BSN, and I was looking over the lyrics to Both Sides Now, and when I read the line "Rows and flows of angel hair," this unbidden image of pasta jumped into my head. And then my next thought was, "Rows and flows of vermicelli, Ice cream castles in my belly..." okay, I had just eaten lunch, so maybe that had something to do with it. Hmmmm.....ice cream...:~} Victor Johnson http://www.cdbaby.com/victorjohnson "Just beyond the morning falls the river of your dreams, Escaping from the day these wild creatures run away." Victor Johnson ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 01 Feb 2001 13:09:30 EST From: SCJoniGuy@aol.com Subject: Re: image for today <> Besides the MANY moon references, Joni also has a couple of "conquered moon" references...this one, and the previously mentioned "We walked on the moon, you be polite" lyric from DITS. I'm thinking it was significant to Joni that the astronauts, at least in those days, were all men. She wrote Amelia and paid homage to a female pioneer of avation. She also said "In my dreams we fly"...maybe she had a secret desire to be an aviator herself. I can't recall any interviews where the subject was discussed... Bob NP: Mary Chapin-Carpenter, "Shut Up & Kiss Me" ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 01 Feb 2001 13:18:19 -0500 From: Jerry Notaro Subject: mp3's - NJC For you techno's: What kind of files to I need to convert to from MP3's in order to burn them into a cd? Bob? Lama? Mark? Anyone? Jerry ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 1 Feb 2001 13:20:01 -0500 From: "Jim L'Hommedieu" Subject: Joni moment #4,602 I think we should *STEAL* it guys!! What da ya think? Who's in? HMMMMMMMMM, Lama Les said, - ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 01 Feb 2001 00:21:20 -0700 From: Les Irvin Subject: Joni moment #4,602 Joniphiles - I'm out in LA on business for a couple of days (hi Kakki!) and had an interesting Joni moment. A group of people who work with me were taken out to dinner this evening by the locals - to a place in Venice called "Hal's". As we were being seated, I noticed a lot of artwork hanging on the walls. I began looking around at the paintings and turned to see the one right behind my chair on the wall. It was an original Joni Mitchell painting! Even more bizarre was that fact that it was one of only about two pieces of her artwork that I have displayed on the JMDL site - seen here http://www.jmdl.com/credits.cfm Go figure.... Les - ------------------------------ ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 01 Feb 2001 13:42:31 EST From: SCJoniGuy@aol.com Subject: Re: mp3's - NJC Don't ask me...I use a standalone Philips. When in doubt about techno, ask a youngster... paging Nikki!!! :~) Bob ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 1 Feb 2001 13:50:16 -0500 From: "cassy" Subject: Mingus Documentary >>> Bob, (who would probably want to also hear "A Chair In The Sky" & "Hejira"...) <<< Hi Bob, Interestingly enough, a while back the Bravo "Mingus" documentary aired. It was on very early in the wee hours and I set my VCR to tape it. The next day I eagerly rewound the tape and watched the entire show, not only to learn more about Charles Mingus, but also hoping for at least a passing reference to his collaboration with Joni. About 12 or so minutes before the end of the show, Charles' wife was saying that when his health had failed to the point that he was unable to compose in his usual manner he resorted to using a tape recorder and singing the music that was in his head. They aired a short portion of one of these tapes and there was Charles, voice reed thin, obviously not in the prime of health singing the music to "Chair in The Sky." The title at the bottom of the screen showed "'Chair in The Sky,' originally recorded by Joni Mitchell." It was the only reference to her during the whole show. I just thought you might find this interesting. Cassy NP George Michael "Father Figure" ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 1 Feb 2001 10:43:28 -0800 From: "Kate Bennett" Subject: Kate's Web cast: Tuesday, 2AM GMT Thanks for spreading the word Lama-- I posted this to a few jmdlers whose email address I had in my database. I now have more specific time information, as there are a few others on the show. The show starts with the founder of Indiegrrls, Holly Figeroa being interview via phone (she has created an incredible organization as a result of her frustrations with the music biz, etc.), there will be someone performing following that, then I go on around 7:20 pm. PST. For about 20 minutes or so, I think. This is gonna be really fun cuz anyone listening can type in stuff via the chatroom while listening & we can see it! And respond! Is this the future of entertainment? Oh, there is a rerun the next day, you can check the website for time... oh, you might need the web address, too! It is on NWEZ,NET Femme Fatale Go to http://femmefatale.nu/femmefatale.htm Lama wrote, "Kate's live web cast Monday, Feb 5 starts at 6 PM Pacific. Since Pacific Time is GMT-8 hours, by my math, Kate's web cast starts at London Time (Greenwich Mean Time) on Tuesday morning at 2 AM (GMT). I hope everyone can figure out when this is relative to GMT. Go Kate!" ******************************************** Kate Bennett sponsored by Polysonics www.polysonics.com hear the music at: www.taylorguitars.com/artists/awp/indies/ www.katebennett.com www.cdbaby.com/katebennett www.amazon.com ******************************************** ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 01 Feb 2001 14:27:07 EST From: SCJoniGuy@aol.com Subject: Re: Mingus Documentary <> I did, very much Cassy! Joni found this project very fulfilling even though she was told (and she knew) that it would be a suicidal career move. She also recounts in an interview about DED that one of the record execs listened to Lucky Girl and commented that he liked it because it sounded 'jazzy'! This was of course after Sting made the airwaves safe for jazz-influenced pop! :~) On a related note, when I think of Joni's Chair In The Sky, I think of Kenny Grant. During the '99 Asharafest, there were only a handful of us playing Joni pictionary in the living room. Kate drew a picture of a chair at the top of the page. While I sat there like an idiot, Kenny knew it immediately! A great Kenny moment! Bob NPIMH: "There are things I wish I'd done Some friends I'm gonna miss" ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 01 Feb 2001 12:36:44 -0700 From: "Lonely Painter" Subject: Re: most admired image From "Sweet Bird" 'Golden in time, cities under the sand. Power, ideals and beauty, fading in everyone's hands./No one knows they can never get that close, guesses at most, guesses based on what each set of time and change is touching.' - -loney painter _________________________________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 01 Feb 2001 14:44:24 EST From: Merk54@aol.com Subject: Flying Joni >Bob wrote: >maybe she had a secret desire to be an aviator herself. ...like me, she had a dream to fly... ...I'm like that black crow flying, in a blue sky... Jack ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 01 Feb 2001 12:57:33 -0700 From: "Lonely Painter" Subject: too many fave lyrics now Gee whiz, looking at the lyrics people have selected as their favourites has my head spinning. I originally wrote down some lines from 'Sweet Bird', but I realise now they're really just the tip of the iceberg. Joni's lyrics in any given song are usually nothing short of brilliant. (And people wonder WHY a gen-xer like myeslf refuses to listen to the radio!) Joni lyrics I simply cound NOT do without: "Formula music, girlie guile, genuine junkfood for juvenilles, up and down the dial, mercenary style." (If only 'genuine' was spelled with a 'j' - what perfect alliteration that would be!) "Woke up it was a Chelsea Morning and the first thing that I heard was a song outside my window and the traffic wrote the words/oh, won't you stay, we'll put on the day and we'll wear it till the night comes/And the sun poured in like butterscotch, stuck to all my senses, oh won't you stay we'll put on the say, and we'll talk in pleasant tenses" "I'm travelling in some vehicle, I'm sitting in some cafe, a defector from the petty wars until love sucks me back that way/White flags of winter chimneys waving truce against the moon" "You and me, we're like America and Russia, we're always keeping score, we're always balancing the power and that can get to be a cold, cold war. We're gonna have to hold ourselves a peace talk in some neutral cafe." "In a highway service station over the month of June, was a photograph of the Earth taken coming back from the moon. And you couldn't see a city on that marbled bowling ball, or a forest or a highway or me, here, least of all. You couldn't see these cold water restrooms, or this baggage overload, westbound and rolling taking refuge in the roads." Ok...I could go on and on and on...I could go through each and every album and lay my finger on the lyrics that speak to me most...but I don't want this to be a long message. Peace, loney painter _________________________________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 1 Feb 2001 12:11:15 -0800 From: Richard Goldman Subject: Joni's paintings on the net? I know I asked this before here a few weeks ago, but didn't get any response. I lost a lot of my data in a crash (it happens. Back it up!). And...I remember there was a site (not the 'official' site) but . . . someone's site, that had a lot of her paintings from the Mendell and maybe a few others, on it, that I wanted to use as 'desktop'. (I *was* using one that was an 'orange-ish/reddish brown' landscape, with a lake: very autumnal). Does anyone have the URL for that site? Please please please email it to me? Thanks! Richard in San Francisco - playing with a full deck now (turned 52 last week - so it's all jokers and wild cards from here on in!) richard2sf@earthlink.net N.P. - the carillon in the church across the street ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 01 Feb 2001 15:11:33 EST From: JRMCo1@aol.com Subject: Songs of Parenting I'm a lonely bachelor with time on my hands and no child to raise. But I was intrigued when I ran across a CD on Half.com (an eBay company) called _Hand in Hand: Songs of Parenting_ released in 1995. I thought the breeders among us might be interested in knowing about this interesting collection of performers and songs. Song List 1. Circle Game - Joni Mitchell 2. On Children - Sweet Honey In The Rock 3. Things We've Handed Down, The - Marc Cohen 4. Baby - Bobby McFerrin 5. Wake Up - Yoko Ono 6. Beautiful Boy - John Lennon/Yoko Ono 7. Only Child - Jackson Browne 8. Born To The Breed - Judy Collins 9. Child's Song - Tom Rush 10. Sunshine - Ferron 11. My Father's House - Kenny Loggins 12. Forever Young - The Pretenders If you want to get it, or anything else, at Half.com, use the code word "stereo" for $5 off. - -Julius ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 01 Feb 2001 15:15:20 EST From: JRMCo1@aol.com Subject: Songs of Parenting I'm a lonely bachelor with time on my hands and no child to raise. But I was intrigued when I ran across a CD on Half.com (an eBay company) called _Hand in Hand: Songs of Parenting_ released in 1995. I thought the breeders among us might be interested in knowing about this interesting collection of performers and songs. Song List 1. Circle Game - Joni Mitchell 2. On Children - Sweet Honey In The Rock 3. Things We've Handed Down, The - Marc Cohen 4. Baby - Bobby McFerrin 5. Wake Up - Yoko Ono 6. Beautiful Boy - John Lennon/Yoko Ono 7. Only Child - Jackson Browne 8. Born To The Breed - Judy Collins 9. Child's Song - Tom Rush 10. Sunshine - Ferron 11. My Father's House - Kenny Loggins 12. Forever Young - The Pretenders If you want to get it, or anything else, at Half.com, use the code word "stereo" for $5 off. - -Julius ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 01 Feb 2001 15:40:14 EST From: SCJoniGuy@aol.com Subject: Re: Joni's paintings on the net? <> It may not help you, Richard, but there ARE quite a few paintings that you can use for wallpaper, etc. at: http://www.jmdl.com/shinytoys/art/ Bob NP: Peter Case, "walking home late" ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 01 Feb 2001 15:48:05 -0500 From: Jerry Notaro Subject: Re: Songs of Parenting - NJC JRMCo1@aol.com wrote: > If you want to get it, or anything else, at Half.com, use the code word "stereo" for $5 off. First time buyers ONLY. Jerry ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 1 Feb 2001 15:48:33 EST From: FredNow@aol.com Subject: Re: Larry Coryell (NJC) Larry is an old pal ... he played on a few tracks of a couple of albums I did in the late 70s, early 80s with my old band, the Simon and Bard Group. He also did a little touring with us. Larry's a great musician, and a true original. He played a Strat solo on a rock anthem, "Two Gentlemen of Peru," on our album THE ENORMOUS RADIO, and it's one of the most majestic, soulful, yet out-of-character things he's ever played on record ... in a blindfold test *no one* would ever guess it was Coryell, sounds more like Clapton, actually. He's mostly playing straight-ahead jazz these days and playing better than ever. - -Fred Simon ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 01 Feb 2001 16:11:32 EST From: SCJoniGuy@aol.com Subject: Attn All E-Bay'ers To those of you who do the E-Bay thang: There are some rare editions of Both Sides Now that I found on E-Bay. If anybody would like to step up and bid/get these, it would be great for our project! Item# 1405901167 Ray Brown LP "Just Ray Brown" Item# 1405938623 Brad Swanson & His Whispering Organ Item# 1407106534 Ian McShane "From Both Sides Now" (this is a UK item) Item# 1406512033 Phyllis Newman "Those Were The Days" (performed with Jerry Notaro) Item# 1407279633 The Collection (a 45 rpm record) Some of this is really rare...as much searching as I've done, I've never seen these available or even KNOWN of them! Maybe we can divvy them up so we don't bid against each other, or maybe one person can be in charge of snagging them all. I'd be glad to pony up a fair share...Pearl? Leslie? Bob ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 01 Feb 2001 16:12:55 EST From: SCJoniGuy@aol.com Subject: Re: Larry Coryell (NJC) And his son Julian does a really pretty version of River on his CD Duality, which I picked up for the cover but dug the entire CD! Bob ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 1 Feb 2001 12:05:23 -0600 From: "Michael Paz" Subject: Jaco Who Loves You? Hello Gang- I don't remember if I posted about this record when I got it last year or not, but it is worth posting again anyway. I got a copy of "A Tribute to Jaco Pastorius" called "Who Loves You?", that was put out on Concord Jazz. It is a wonderful record with some of the most superb players out there, including many Joni alumnus players. The list goes like this: Don Alias, Michael Brecker, Peter Erskine, Victor Bailey, Randy Brecker, Hiram Bullock, Steve Cardenas, Mark Egan, Bill Evans, Steve Gadd, Bob James, Will Lee, Marcus Miller, John Patitucci, David Sanborn, Mike Stern + many many more. The really obvious thing is NO Joni Mitchell. Jaco was big in the Jazz camp, but it was Joni who brought him to an even wider audience (and verse vica). Of course there are no girls on this record so maybe it was a Dale Evans/Roy Rodgers thing (wink wink). Anyways for all you Jazzers out there, hjere is your heads up about new product available that gets my stamp I was also reading the new Jazz Times about Andy Summers and his new Mingus project and of course you know who went there SO "five minutes ago" and did a brilliant job at that. In other news, I happened to be pushing the buttons on the car radio this morning and stopped on a sports shos called The Game and it caught my ear cause they were talking about the very first SuperBowl and the fact that there is no footage of it (which I thought strange). Both announcers said something about "you never know what you have untill its gone". Both guys thanked Joni Mitchell and while one sited the fact that they put up a parking lot, the other muttered something about a Big Yellow Taxi. I laughed out loud cause once again it shows how prolific and wide she reaches, even the jocks are hip to Joni! Best, Michael (who ran track and played soccer in High school but was NEVER considered a jock cause I was a freak. Right Jack???) NP-Blue-From The Alternate ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 01 Feb 2001 16:19:03 -0500 From: Jerry Notaro Subject: Re: Attn All E-Bay'ers SCJoniGuy@aol.com wrote: > To those of you who do the E-Bay thang: > > There are some rare editions of Both Sides Now that I found on E-Bay. If anybody would like to step up and bid/get these, it would be great for our project!Item# 1406512033 > Phyllis Newman "Those Were The Days" > (performed with Jerry Notaro) Very funny, Mr. Muller. I actually worked with Phyliss about 22 years ago on a show called The Madwoman of Central Park. She was wonderful. Jerry ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 1 Feb 2001 16:35:21 EST From: SMEBD@aol.com Subject: Joni Paintings on the Net Hi Richard! I think that the following link is the one that you were asking about: http://www.malanga.co.uk/diary/ This site can be linked to via www.jonimitchell.com The entry is 06/29/00 and the link is entitled "Diary Of A Decade". Enjoy, Stephen ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 1 Feb 2001 17:16:54 -0500 From: "cassy" Subject: Re: Attn All E-Bay'ers I am bidding on the Ray Brown and I bought Item# 1407279633 - The Collection outright on the buy it now option. Is the ebay ID "Miles" someone on the list. I find myself bidding against this person quite a bit :( Cassy ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 1 Feb 2001 19:26:43 -0300 From: "Wally Kairuz" Subject: meet the beatles!!!!! njc i was just telling a good friend on the list that i'm having a 100% beatles day. i thought i'd play the white album as i showered today morning, but it's now grown to epic dimensions!!!!! i've gone through half the catalogue and now i can't stop playing sgt. pepper's. how can one so often forget how tremendous these guys are! i was just thinking that if sgt. pepper came out today [not a gay sgt. pepper coming out, you know what i mean] it would still be considered avant-garde. i wonder if it would have any commercial success at all!!!! my head is spinning into virtual history. what would music be like today if the beatles hadn't existed. would we have joni? would we be listening to motown? would paz have a ponytail? it very much boggles my minuscule mind. a beatle-less history of the world. wow! wallyK, ''in this way mr K will challenge the world''. how appropriate. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 1 Feb 2001 15:05:00 -0800 From: Richard Goldman Subject: Re: Joni's paintings on the net? Hey Mr. Bob, Thanks. I did peruse those. There was *some* other site that had been posted somewhere on the jmdl about 3-6 months ago...someone had scanned and put up a ton of high-resolution photos of Joni's paintings, right up to TTT and BSN. And others just from her own collection, not on albums. I wonder where that was... You are an angel though, I hope you know that. Richard - ------- \At 3:40 PM -0500 2/1/01, SCJoniGuy@aol.com wrote: ><> > >It may not help you, Richard, but there ARE quite a few paintings that you >can use for wallpaper, etc. at: > >http://www.jmdl.com/shinytoys/art/ > >Bob > >NP: Peter Case, "walking home late" ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 1 Feb 2001 15:09:17 -0800 From: Richard Goldman Subject: Re: Joni Paintings on the Net Stephen, Actually it's this link: http://www.jmdl.com/shinytoys/art/ Duh! It was right in front of me all the time. Thanks though! xoxox - -Richard ======== At 4:35 PM -0500 2/1/01, SMEBD@aol.com wrote: >Hi Richard! > >I think that the following link is the one that you were asking about: > >http://www.malanga.co.uk/diary/ > >This site can be linked to via www.jonimitchell.com The entry is 06/29/00 >and >the link is entitled "Diary Of A Decade". > >Enjoy, > >Stephen ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 1 Feb 2001 18:10:59 EST From: RoseMJoy@aol.com Subject: Re: Attn All E-Bay'ers It's best if you bib on them just minutes before the auction closes. It might be best to assign one person to an item so that we're not bidding against one another. I'd be happy to bid for ya, but tell me which one? Rose ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 1 Feb 2001 19:00:46 EST From: SCJoniGuy@aol.com Subject: Re: Attn All E-Bay'ers << I am bidding on the Ray Brown and I bought Item# 1407279633 - The Collection outright on the buy it now option.>> Yippee Cassy - you rule! 'Preciate you stepping up with that "Buy Now"! I *was* showing that cover as "Hot Biscuit Disco" as the performer, now we have the right information and the cover to boot! Keep me posted on the Ray Brown! Bob NP: Mark Knopfler, "Sailing To Philadelphia" ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 1 Feb 2001 19:04:03 EST From: SCJoniGuy@aol.com Subject: Re: Attn All E-Bay'ers << I'd be happy to bid for ya, but tell me which one? >> Well, if Cassy's going for the Ray Brown, you can pick either the Phyllis Newman, Brad Swanson, or Ian McShane! Bob ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 1 Feb 2001 19:24:24 EST From: RoseMJoy@aol.com Subject: Re: Attn All E-Bay'ers In a message dated 2/1/01 7:17:28 PM Eastern Standard Time, SCJoniGuy@aol.com writes: << Well, if Cassy's going for the Ray Brown, you can pick either the Phyllis Newman, Brad Swanson, or Ian McShane! >> Ok, Boberino, Ian McShane it is. now none of yas be trying to outbid me on this. Rosalita ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 1 Feb 2001 19:26:24 EST From: WirlyPearl@aol.com Subject: Re: Attn All E-Bay'ers Hey Bob, I've already got a bid in on Brad Swanson. I'll be watching it. Pearl > > << I'd be happy to bid for ya, but tell me which one? >> > > Well, if Cassy's going for the Ray Brown, you can pick either the Phyllis > Newman, Brad Swanson, or Ian McShane! > > Bob ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 01 Feb 2001 18:57:54 -0800 From: Michael Paz Subject: Re: a few favorites Julius- Great post man! Why don't you write some lyrics. Beautifully done! Michael NP-The Dreaming Tree-DMB on 1/31/01 10:08 PM, JRMCo1@aol.com at JRMCo1@aol.com wrote: > Mark favors: > > < Bashing in veins for peace > Cold blue steel & sweet fire > Fall into Lady Release>> > > This image is so utterly brilliant it give me goose-flesh and makes me murmur > "be still my beating heart." The disarming alliteration. The metaphorical > duality. The symbolic juxtaposition. The human frailty and mortality she > lays bear. Her masterful personification of the inanimate opiate, and the > imagery she creates from its accoutrement. The subtle way she creates > seamless setting throughout the song. How she onomatopoetically sings > "sweet." Every time I hear this song I find more gorgeous nuance. > > Even more awe-inspiring when one considers the visceral quality of the > hypnotic music she weaves around this poetic genius. The opening chords and > the feeling they evoke, acclimating the listener to the mood and message of > the song. One can't help but empathize with her characters and dwell in the > other-world she creates. Siquomb says it all. > > Thanks for pointing this one out, Mark. And I thank whatever gods may be for > Joni. All my love is due her. > > -Julius > np: Cold Blue Steel & Sweet Fire ------------------------------ End of JMDL Digest V2001 #53 **************************** ------- Post messages to the list by clicking here: mailto:joni@smoe.org Unsubscribe by clicking here: mailto:joni-digest-request@smoe.org?body=unsubscribe ------- Siquomb, isn't she?