From: les@jmdl.com (JMDL Digest) To: joni-digest@smoe.org Subject: JMDL Digest V2001 #41 Reply-To: joni@smoe.org Sender: les@jmdl.com Errors-To: les@jmdl.com Precedence: bulk Unsubscribe: mailto:joni-digest-request@smoe.org?body=unsubscribe Archives: http://www.smoe.org/lists/joni Websites: http://www.jmdl.com http://www.jonimitchell.com JMDL Digest Thursday, January 25 2001 Volume 2001 : Number 041 The 'Official' Joni Mitchell Homepage, created by Wally Breese, can be found at http://www.jonimitchell.com. It contains the latest news, a detailed bio, Original Interviews, essays, lyrics and much much more. The JMDL website can be found at http://www.jmdl.com and contains interviews, articles, the member gallery, archives, and much more. ========== TOPICS and authors in this Digest: -------- Re: More Photos of MiniJoniFest - Part II njc ["Kakki" ] 'Blue' [Jason Long ] RE: Threefer Madness, 100% Joni Content ["Jim L'Hommedieu" ] Re: JMDL Digest V2001 #37 [Jason Long ] january 25!!!!!!!!!! njc ["Wally Kairuz" ] RE: JMDL Digest V2001 #37 ["Wally Kairuz" ] Re: Larry Klein ["Bill Pearson" ] Re: JMDL Digest V2001 #39 [RK1THXguy@aol.com] Re: january 25!!!!!!!!!! njc [FMYFL@aol.com] Re: Toaster?, NJC ["Victor Johnson" ] Re: Steely Dan & Joni - common title [SCJoniGuy@aol.com] Threefer Madness and New York, New York [Emily Kirk Gray ] Re: HOSL demos [SCJoniGuy@aol.com] toaster?NJC ["Victor Johnson" ] Re: Shorter with Joni- live [SCJoniGuy@aol.com] Re: Forward please? More Threefers [SCJoniGuy@aol.com] RE: "Just Ice" ?, NJC, Philosophy Content, Long [SCJoniGuy@aol.com] Re: "Just Ice" ? [mintagli@email.ypf.com.ar] Happy/Sad? NJC [AzeemAK@aol.com] Sweet Sucker Dance3/3 ["BRIAN SYMES" ] Joni/Juno [Steve Dulson ] new york, new york (NJC) ["Victor Johnson" ] threefer madnes ["J.David Sapp" ] MiniFest (NJC) [Steve Dulson ] #13 ["Stephen Epstein" ] Re: "Just Ice" ? [Phyliss Ward ] Memorial Day in New York [AsharaJM@aol.com] Re: "Just Ice" ? [mintagli@email.ypf.com.ar] Re: #13 [SCJoniGuy@aol.com] Re: Memorial Day in New York NJC [JRMCo1@aol.com] Re: Aimee Mann (NJC) ["Kakki" ] Re: january 25!!!!!!!!!! njc [Alison E ] The New Orleans News (NJC) ["Michael Paz" ] Re: Intro to Steely Dan? NJC [Randy Remote ] Re: "Just Ice" ? ["Victor Johnson" ] Re: The New Orleans News (NJC) ["Victor Johnson" ] Re: "Just Ice" ? ["cassy" ] Re: Justice is Just ice (long) ["Duane J. Corpis" ] ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Wed, 24 Jan 2001 23:10:25 -0800 From: "Kakki" Subject: Re: More Photos of MiniJoniFest - Part II njc > kakki: your hair has grown so long since september! you're looking > fantastic! Thanks Wally! It's been growing like a weed and I don't know why since it's been cut three times since September! Must be like a cat getting a winter coat - it has been very cold here. ;-) BTW - Quite a few at my party got a crush on neighbor Tom - I'll have to get him to join the list ;-) Kakki ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 25 Jan 2001 03:11:30 -0500 From: "Jim L'Hommedieu" Subject: Re: Threefer Madness, 100% Joni Content Did anyone get this trilogy of threefers? "three... oranges three... lemons three... plums" BTW, I'm reading photocopies made by the late Wally B. for a friend of spirit. (Thanks! I'll take good care of them and return them safely!) (Les-meister: I'll be checking with you to see if I can start typing from this stack but so far, Wally already beat me to the punch.) ANYWAY!! It seems that the "Mingus" project wasn't panned by everyone. Maybe the most important Jazz magazine of all is "down beat". Out of a possible 5 stars for excellent, downbeat rated "Mingus"....... (wait for it)..... five stars. The review by Leonard Feather begins, "This is a wonderful piece of work." Mr. Feather recognized (of course) that Joni's is perfectly channeling Annie Ross's "Farmer's Market" when she wrote "Dry Cleaner From Des Moines". Of "Goodbye Pork Pie Hat" Mister Feather says, "Joni's lyrics, quite frankly, are profound: in the first five words, she manages to weave the song's original subject (Lester Young) and its composer into an epic framework of great emotional power: 'When Charlie speaks of Lester/You know someone great has gone/the sweetest swinging music man/had a porky-pig hat on/A bright star in a dark age/when the bandstands had a thousand ways of refusing a black man/admission./ Black musicians/In those days they put him in an underdog position/Cellars and chitlins.' " There's more of course, and the late Wally B. already posted it, so go to: www.jonimitchell.com/downbeat79.html If you don't have time, rest assured that down beat "got" Mingus even if Joni doesn't REMEMBER it that way!! You go girl! We love you!! Lama ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 25 Jan 2001 03:26:55 -0500 From: "Jim L'Hommedieu" Subject: Re: From the dancing dulcimerator.. Hi Steve, So, in Joni's song about a Greek man, she used a rhythm that she found in his country! Dave Brubeck would approve! Lama PS- This is certainly Joni Content Steve and a cool nugget at that! npimh: Blue Rondo Ala Turk from tonight's "Jazz" episode. - ------------------------------ Steve said, Carey is written in a Greek "syrtos" rhythm - the same as Cat Stevens' Rubylove - so you can dance a syrtos to those songs. Michele and I met doing this stuff.... - - -- ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 25 Jan 2001 05:41:21 -0300 From: "Wally Kairuz" Subject: RE: Threefer Madness, 100% Joni Content of but it's a fourster ''3 oranges, 3 lemons, 3 cherries, 3 plums''. in any case they add up to 12 pieces of fruit and that's a multiple of 3. besides, the digits add 3 too!!!! so it's still very threeferly, jim. wallyK - -----Mensaje original----- De: owner-joni@jmdl.com [mailto:owner-joni@jmdl.com]En nombre de Jim L'Hommedieu Enviado el: Jueves, 25 de Enero de 2001 05:12 a.m. Para: _JMDL - June 98 Asunto: Re: Threefer Madness, 100% Joni Content Did anyone get this trilogy of threefers? "three... oranges three... lemons three... plums" Lama ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 25 Jan 2001 05:43:42 -0300 From: "Wally Kairuz" Subject: RE: More Photos of MiniJoniFest - Part II njc by all means, genuine kakki. we need tom! any idea of proclivities? wallyK, wishing my hair were long - -----Mensaje original----- De: Kakki [mailto:KakkiB@worldnet.att.net] Enviado el: Jueves, 25 de Enero de 2001 04:10 a.m. Para: Wally Kairuz CC: joni@smoe.org Asunto: Re: More Photos of MiniJoniFest - Part II njc BTW - Quite a few at my party got a crush on neighbor Tom - I'll have to get him to join the list ;-) Kakki ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 25 Jan 2001 03:50:32 -0500 From: "Jim L'Hommedieu" Subject: Toaster?, NJC Excuse me. I need a ruling from the judges. What exactly are the rules on awarding a toaster for converting a straight person? Since Alison painted Paz'es toenails, and Clark immortalized the fact on JMDL, who gets the toaster? Lama ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 25 Jan 2001 04:00:46 -0500 From: Jason Long Subject: 'Blue' I just wanted to say thank you to everyone who answered my question about the HDCD version of _Blue_ a couple of days ago. I'm now torn on whether to buy the gold edition or the HDCD -- either one would be higher quality than the standard issue, but I get the feeling the HDCD would be easier to find. Also, while I have a fairly decent component system, it's probably not high-end enough to really distinguish much of a difference between the two. Ultimately, what I'll likely end up doing is buying whatever one I'm able to find when I go shopping for it tomorrow -- if both editions are in stock, I'll probably go for the gold one. Thanks again, Jase NP: "Don't Interrupt the Sorrow" ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 25 Jan 2001 04:00:19 -0500 From: "Jim L'Hommedieu" Subject: RE: Threefer Madness, 100% Joni Content Great catch Wally! I read the (incomplete) lyric in the down beat review and quoted it right off the page. I should have sung it out loud as a check! Anyway, thanks. And keep up the good work, birthday fairie! Lama > From: Wally Kairuz > of but it's a fourster > ''3 oranges, 3 lemons, 3 cherries, 3 plums''. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 25 Jan 2001 00:34:33 -0800 From: "Kakki" Subject: L.A. Minifest report (long, of course ;-) (njc) I'm still not completely recovered but must write some more while the memories are fresh ;-) The NAMM show was so much fun - it's like an adult Disneyland for music freaks. Darice and I first met up with Paz at the Taylor room to see Jeff Pevar, Artie Traum and another guy play. Artie is an incredible songwriter who reminds me a bit of Paul Simon, but Pevar's trademark CPR sound permeated throughout the performance. Paz commented that they even sounded like CPR with Artie's Croz-like singing voice. Freebo, Bobbie Raitt's former tuba player, came in and sat in front of us. We later saw Wendy Waldman perform at Taylor, but missed seeing Livingston Taylor (boohoo)One of the wild things about NAMM is that just about everybody looks like someone famous or familiar but you can't always place who they are. It usually turns out that the *are* someone famous and it is fascinating to see them hanging out in their element. We all saw an assortment of "stars", including Iggy Pop, actor and sometime musician Adam Sadler, horror movie hostess Elvira, Phil Everly and many more. It was great to hook up with Steve, Kate, Jeff and Nikki there, too. I'm always so thankful to Paz for snagging us passes to this event. Thanks also to our man Paz, later that night the whole gang got into the private "All Star Guitar Night" party at the Hilton featuring many of who are considered the best guitarists in the world. To say it was stupendous is an understatement. The magic dust was on us as Kate spotted her good friend who invited us all to sit in the VIP section right in front of the stage! As Alison reported, Keanu Reeves band Dogstar played and I also thought they were just fantastic! If this wasn't all enough, we continued the party back at Julian's "JMDL Hospitality Suite" until around 3 a.m. I was so high that I even tried an anchovy martini olive there for the first time ;-) Kate and her husband Jeff played some really beautiful music and Nikki performed some incredible guitar licks on "Conversation." The party Sunday was one of the best I've ever had, totally in thanks to those who were there. Darice and Phyliss helped me so much with the food and set-up - they were just wonderful and I thank them very much for everything. Likewise to my L.A. buds Steve and Michelle, Clark and Rick who are just the classiest and sweetest people you'd ever want to meet. The dancing and dulcimer was fantastic! It was so great and we were so lucky to have Kate and Jeff join us and play more live music, especially after so much partying and long-distance driving for them last weekend! Thanks for being such troupers! As reported, Kate, Jeff and Clark are truly even more awesome when you hear their music live! Alison grossly underestimates her musical talents - she sings and plays like a professional and I have the recordings to prove it, so there! We did some haphazard recording of events on Sunday, but I hope to edit the tapes and put together a little compilation at some point. Thanks Alison for keeping the music and party spirit going (the "ribald" song turned out to be one of the best cuts ;-) It was fun to have Barb join us, too! Thanks also to Nikki for all her great music and spirit - everyone thought you were so cute and sweet, Nikki! Since you want me to keep the tuner you left behind, I will take that as a sign of your return to L.A. again soon. ;-) Thanks to Julius for getting us a NAMM party suite and for chaffeuring everyone around! I'm always so happy when you decide to come to L.A. to party with us. You are my dear sweet friend and I appreciate everything you do and your great singing, too. Thanks to those there in spirit if not in person - Russ for his generous gifts of the gorgeous Hejira shirts, and Marian for the great surprise of a phone call all the way from Vienna! And lastly thanks to Paz, the social and musical director extraordinaire who gets so much credit for starting it and keeping it all going! The high level of excitement and activity would never be quite the same without you. I can't wait to do it all again soon! Love, Kakki ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 25 Jan 2001 04:43:05 -0500 From: Jason Long Subject: Re: Aimee Mann (NJC) Emily wrote: >she was wonderful: energetic, smiling, dancing around. >i thought her voice was great, even in its non-produced >form (cracking or shivering a bit on various notes.) >great versions of "red vines," "susan" and "wise up." >AND an unbelievable, acoustic, slowed-down "it's not >safe" (from i'm with stupid) that was so incredible >that we talked about it in the cab on the way home for >twenty minutes. Thanks for the review of the show, Emily! I saw Aimee and Michael play in Toronto about a year ago, and I had the same reaction to Aimee's performance of "It's Not Safe," which was undoubtedly the highlight of the show. I like the arrangement of it she's been playing live better than the one from a few years ago or even the album version -- it's just so heartbreaking and beautiful. I had goosebumps throughout the entire song, and was quite happy when I was able to get a copy of another show from that tour, just so I could hear it again. Just out of curiosity, did Aimee do "Fourth of July" or "Ghost World?" Both have also been highlights when I've seen her in the past. >however, although i LIKE michael penn i certainly don't >love his songs (they seemed rather cheesy and anthemic >last night), and it was kind of painful because even his >fans might admit his songwriting is about three cuts below >his wife's. still, their collaboration and affection >are real, and ever since seeing yo la tengo a few months >ago i've been entranced by all the interesting things that >happen when two life partners get up on stage together. I count myself as a huge Michael Penn fan, so I do have to wonder if this show was your first introduction to his music. Personally, I find his songs translate better on record than they do live, and they usually do take a few listens before they have any real impact. Personally, though, I'm floored by his album _Resigned_ in particular -- "All That That Implies" and "Out of My Hands" are both exceptional songs. If you haven't heard this album, before you write him off, please give this album a chance to win you over. It really is great. I will admit that his songwriting isn't in the same league as Aimee's, but then again, whose is? There are very few songwriters who I'd put in the same class as her (Elvis Costello and Andy Partridge both immediately come to mind; Joni's above her). Any songwriter who is three cuts below Aimee is still pretty much head and shoulders above most of what's out there. Ultimately, comparing Aimee and Michael is like comparing apples and oranges in my opinion, and I wonder if a solo Michael performance would win people over more. I'm sure his songs would come across better if they weren't directly 'competing' with Aimee's. On their own, they're wonderful; compared to his wife's, there is a disparity in talent. (Aside: Interesting that you're a Yo La Tengo fan as well; I think they're amazing. _I Can Hear the Heart Beating as One_ seldom left my player during the first few months I had it.) Kakki wrote: >Thanks for the review. It's funny because I had almost the same reaction to >her show here in L.A. about a year ago. They opened with the amateur comic, >and then there was as much Michael Penn in the show as Aimee, and they also >gave time to spotlighting some of the band members showing off their >individual virtuosity. To me, all of this distracted from really focusing >on Aimee's music. I got the impression that all of them , including the >comic are "one big happy family", who like to do a sort of group "showcase," >which is fine, but it really cuts into featuring and being able to >appreciate Aimee. A few months ago a list member sent me an incredible >compilation of almost all Aimee, with Penn on back-up vocals and guitar on >just a couple of songs. I enjoyed and appreciated her music so much more >when it was just about her - without the whole gang competing for attention. To be fair, Aimee and Michael say they use the comedian because neither of them are good at banter and feel more comfortable on stage this way. I've seen Aimee both with and sans comedian, and she does appear a lot more relaxed and seems to have a better time on stage when the focus isn't solely on her. Also, most of the time, they use a different comic in each city and some are much better than others. A lot depends on who's there the night you see the show. Also, just to defend Michael a little further, the show isn't supposed to be all about Aimee in the first place. The Acoustic Vaudeville shows were conceived of as joint venture to showcase both artists' material and they're both to receive equal billing. Of course, this is undermined in many cases by promoters who tend to advertise otherwise and focus more on Aimee, who admittedly has a higher profile, making her seem like the headliner and Michael as a guest or opener, when that's not the case and there is no headliner. In fact, the show I saw in Toronto was very misleadingly promoted as an Aimee-only gig with no word on if there'd even be a headliner. We didn't know if Michael would be there or not until the show actually started. It may have thrown a few people off who weren't expecting him, but I personally was glad he was there. This topic gets debated a fair amount on Mannlist, so if I seem overly defensive, it's likely because I've had too much pro-Aimee/anti-Michael talk. I happen to like them both and enjoy seeing them perform together. Besides, when they play live together, they play much longer shows than either of them normally do solo, and you get two great talents for the price of one. Also, the fact is, neither of them enjoy touring all that much and Aimee probably would not have played nearly as many shows as she has since Magnolia's release if it weren't for the fact she was touring with Michael. Besides, they make such a cute couple on stage. ;) I wonder if those who go to the shows mainly to see Michael feel the same way about Aimee? Hmmm. Cheers, Jase ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 25 Jan 2001 05:18:21 -0500 From: Jason Long Subject: Re: JMDL Digest V2001 #37 Rob wrote: >Tori Amos poured her heart out on 'Little Earthquakes' and then had nothing >much to say on 'Under the Pink'. It took the end of her long relationships >with Eric ending to create the wonderful 'Boys for Pele' and her miscarriage >to bring about the very dark 'From the Choirgirl Hotel'. It seems that for >an artist to please their fans (and critics) they have to go through a >personal hell. I personally find this topic very interesting. It gets kicked around quite often on the Liz Phair list, especially at the time _whitechocolatespaceegg_ was released. Although that album does contain a couple of songs that are more personal than any others she's written (I'm thinking of "Go On Ahead" in particular), it does feel like she's keeping the listener at arms' length through much of the album. The songs are still great, but they just don't have the same impact -- they're more like character sketches of other people, whereas the songs on Liz's first two albums felt more like these revealing narratives about herself. A lot of her fans do chalk this up to the changes between her previous album four years earlier and that one -- she was now happily married, a new mother, and more sure of herself than she'd ever been. Gone was a lot of the turmoil and vulnerability of her earlier recordings. I sometimes wonder how Aimee Mann is going to fare on her next album. She's obviously a very gifted songwriter, but a lot of the material on her solo albums does seem fueled by the dysfunctional relationships she's had in the past and all of her record label battles. Now that she's married, happy, and in full control of her career, she doesn't have the same demons to draw upon. Of course, "Ghost World," one of the most fabulous songs on her new record, has nothing to do with any of the aforementioned subjects, and was in fact inspired by a graphic novel (sounds much better than comic book, no?) of the same name by Dan Clowes that she had read and loved. Stephen in Vancouver wrote: >Can't agree more w/you Jim!! I never purchased either Hits or Misses for >exactly that reason- the songs being out of context to the central theme. >I have often wondered why these were released- was it a JM decision, or the >record company's? It never really has made sense to me. You never purchased _Hits_? I hope you have "Urge For Going" in some other form then, because it would really be a shame if you haven't heard (and don't own) this song. I bought _Hits_ just for the express purpose of having that song on CD. I never did pick _Misses_ up myself, though, for the very reason you stated. I just didn't see the point, and it didn't contain any material I didn't already own. Cheers, Jase NP: Big Star, "September Gurls" ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 25 Jan 2001 07:19:14 -0300 From: "Wally Kairuz" Subject: january 25!!!!!!!!!! njc oh man!!! i'm mad about this girl!!!! when i first met her she was on crutches she'll never know how much too much is! she's kept me company through my insomnia [you may not like it but it grows on ya!] and best of all right from the first day she was the one who knew my birthday!!!!!!!!! drum rrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrroll!!!!!!!!!! H A P P Y B I R T H D A Y JOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOODYYYYYYYYYYYY!!!!!!!!!! thank you for all the late night chats at ashara's! and thank you for never mistaking my birthday! i love your laughter and how you always end up NOT sleeping in your tent! go girl! wallyK, devoted to birthdaying ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 25 Jan 2001 07:23:57 -0300 From: "Wally Kairuz" Subject: RE: JMDL Digest V2001 #37 jason!!! how many lists are you a member of?????? wallyK - -----Mensaje original----- De: owner-joni@jmdl.com [mailto:owner-joni@jmdl.com]En nombre de Jason Long Enviado el: Jueves, 25 de Enero de 2001 07:18 a.m. Para: joni@smoe.org Asunto: Re: JMDL Digest V2001 #37 I personally find this topic very interesting. It gets kicked around quite often on the Liz Phair list ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 25 Jan 2001 10:37:30 -0000 From: "Bill Pearson" Subject: Re: Larry Klein Hey Paz, I'm glad someone saw it :) For all that's been said, I was surprised that Joni was working on the new one so quickly. Bill > This is a very cool link! Thanks Bill > > Paz > > NP-It's A Given-Terri Hendrix > > > > on 1/18/01 5:12 AM, Bill Pearson at bill@l3r.com wrote: > > > Found this > > > > Bill > > > > http://www.worldsend.com/producers.html > > > > LARRY KLEIN is currently working on a new JONI MITCHELL album. He just > > completed touring with JONI MITCHELL as Musical Director. He recently > > completed tracks with ANNE McCUE for Relentless, JACKIE BRISTOW for > > Liberation and an orchestral album, "Both Sides Now" with JONI MITCHELL for > > Reprise. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 25 Jan 2001 06:57:39 EST From: RK1THXguy@aol.com Subject: Re: JMDL Digest V2001 #39 When I tried to download this, a message appeared stating "File Not Found". ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 25 Jan 2001 07:07:35 EST From: FMYFL@aol.com Subject: Re: january 25!!!!!!!!!! njc In a message dated 1/25/01 5:35:18 AM Eastern Standard Time, wallykai@fibertel.com.ar writes: << H A P P Y B I R T H D A Y JOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOODYYYYYYYYYYYY!!!!!!!!!! > I second that emotion! To the beautiful eyed lady that just brings her tent to Joni-fests! You're the best, and I'm going to send you my electric bill instead of a birthday card :~) I hope Scott prepares you a wonderful meal tonight! xoxo Jimmy ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 25 Jan 2001 08:05:15 -0500 From: "Victor Johnson" Subject: Re: Toaster?, NJC > Excuse me. I need a ruling from the judges. What exactly are the rules on > awarding a toaster for converting a straight person? > > Since Alison painted Paz'es toenails, and Clark immortalized the fact on > JMDL, who gets the toaster? "There's a general lack of toasters in the neighorhood today." -from "True West" Victor Johnson http://www.cdbaby.com/victorjohnson "Just beyond the morning falls the river of your dreams, Escaping from the day these wild creatures run away." Victor Johnson ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 25 Jan 2001 08:07:51 EST From: SCJoniGuy@aol.com Subject: Re: Steely Dan & Joni - common title <> Correct-o-mundo, Sean...a song they recorded in the 60's for a film called "You Gotta Walk It Like You Talk It", and actually the only song on the soundtrack that has that trademark Steely Dan sound, imo... Bob NP: The Bluerunners, "Damaged Goods" ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 25 Jan 2001 08:20:14 -0500 (EST) From: Emily Kirk Gray Subject: Threefer Madness and New York, New York hi rose! um, as i wrote the second after i read david's email... i'm definitely in for the judy's extravaganza. - --emily (in brooklyn) ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 25 Jan 2001 08:40:43 EST From: SCJoniGuy@aol.com Subject: Re: january 25!!!!!!!!!! njc <> And a BIG 52-point ME TOO on this one! Two words...Jody RULES! She's my twin of spirit, my long-lost soul sister, the only other nutjob who throws XTC, Joni, Tom Waits, The Replacements, Lucinda, and all the others into the same musical blender, punches puree, and digs it all! And a fellow Messiah-hater too! She's sent me candy, popcorn, pizzas...I would be a roly-poly if we had too many more like Jody around! :~) And she doesn't post too much because bless her heart, she's GOT to be the slowest typist on the list! Once while I was IM'ing with her, I typed "How ya doin, Jody?"...went out and washed my car, and came in to see that she had just typed the "e" in fine! :~) Make it a great day, Pally!! You're the best! Bob NP: Blues Traveler, "Stand" ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 25 Jan 2001 07:44:15 -0600 From: "Gerald" Subject: Lead Balloons Hits The Pavement - NJC Re: Miss Paved Paradise / Pave The Way For La Mitchell (MP3s) "....that went over like a lead balloon. Lead, lead, lead... lead balloon." Not amused? Not listened to? Not commented on? Hmmmmmm... Gerald ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 25 Jan 2001 08:43:27 EST From: SCJoniGuy@aol.com Subject: Re: HOSL demos Jack, If no one else has stepped up for you, I'll be glad to copy this CD for you. The balance of that CD tree is: Troubadour '72 Seattle '72 A Day In the Garden '98 4 CD's total, yours for the asking. Bob ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 25 Jan 2001 08:42:55 -0500 From: "Victor Johnson" Subject: toaster?NJC upon second thought, I believe I misquoted that line...it should read, "There'll be a general lack of toasters in the neighorhood tomorrow morning." Victor Johnson http://www.cdbaby.com/victorjohnson "Just beyond the morning falls the river of your dreams, Escaping from the day these wild creatures run away." Victor Johnson ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 25 Jan 2001 08:46:36 EST From: SCJoniGuy@aol.com Subject: Re: Shorter with Joni- live <> Ainoshi Festival – Todajiji Temple, Nara City, Japan 05/22/94 The music is on TT#6, Jim, you probably have the J-card. Bob ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 25 Jan 2001 08:49:55 EST From: SCJoniGuy@aol.com Subject: Re: Forward please? More Threefers These come courtesy of Cassy, she's experiencing technical difficulties...these are very cool, especially the last one from Lakota. ************************************************* A few more... Cassy Dog Eat Dog ~~~~~~~~~~ "Some downtown atmosphere... In the dance halls and the galleries or betting in the O.T.B." "No hearts of gold No nerves of steel No blame for what we can and cannot feel" "Fiction of the "buy me," "Watch me," "Listen to me" "Snakebite evangelists and racketeers and big wig financiers" "On and on the basic needs are defiled - good air - good water - good earth" "Wise guys, shy guys and sly lover boys with big bad bedroom eyes..." "Playboys, stray boys and "Say hey,hey" boys" "Cheaters, woman beaters and Huck Finn shucksters hopping parking meters" CMIARS ~~~~~~~~~ In the woodlands - footprints of a deer In the barrooms - poor drunk bastard falls In the courtrooms - deaf ears - sixty years. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 25 Jan 2001 09:14:58 EST From: SCJoniGuy@aol.com Subject: RE: "Just Ice" ?, NJC, Philosophy Content, Long <> First off, nice post Jim! I think that Joni's breaking up of "justice" into "just ice" implies that the controlling powers are cold-hearted in terms of making sure that what is right & fair gets carried out, and the disenfranchised suffer as a result. <> Well, if memory serves correctly, when the virus broke out, the "strong" (the ones in power both in government & business) withheld information, research funding, and other resources to attempt to curb it. This is the strong doing what they will (or WON'T in this instance), and it caused delays in investigations into treatments and drugs. I think there's more of a connection there than you admit. Lyrically, the song IS difficult because it is so disjointed, at least at first glance. It is similar to "No Apologies" in that respect. I think Mark was pretty accurate when he said that it was just Joni's statement that the world can be pretty fucked up and that "the balance is undone". Maybe the song wasn't written to give us answers but rather to give us questions, perhaps even to question ourselves and our behaviors and attitudes about the effects of our lust and greed. And I love the version of "Sex Kills" at the '95 Jazz & Heritage Festival in Paz-ville. She sets the VG8 to fuzz tone and plays a distorted angry guitar backing. I'm not sure it was intentional as it was the first time she played the VG8 in public, but it was effective as hell, I thought. Bob, wondering why a discussion of Joni's lyric is marked "NJC"... NP: Blues Traveler, "Hook" ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 25 Jan 2001 12:15:56 -0300 From: mintagli@email.ypf.com.ar Subject: Re: "Just Ice" ? Esteemed, patient List, since it weighs on my conscience, I wanted to share this feeling with you: "Sex kills" is the only Joni song I hate (so far). I cannot not hate a song that contains such a foolish line as this: "Is justice just ice?" What?! Am I missing something? Mariana ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 25 Jan 2001 10:23:35 EST From: AzeemAK@aol.com Subject: Happy/Sad? NJC Yael wrote: << I would agree though, that her most recent effort To Venus and Back, which isn't fueled by tragedy, doesn't seem like it is fueled by anything much. Rumors are starting that she may be releasing a new album this fall - but they are only rumors now - who knows? She just had a baby last year so it would be a "happy" album, I imagine. >> I listened to To Venus & Back just a couple of days ago, and I found it a staggering work - dark, twisted, dense, almost impenetrable. I agree it's difficult to form much of a view as to what it's "about" - it certainly isn't my idea of a happy album, though. Whoever suggested Cole Porter as an example of a great "happy" songwriter (I know that's not the expression you used), I'm not so sure - to me there's a hint of heartache even in some of his seemingly upbeat songs - a lot of unrequited love, I imagine, and the additional heartache of being gay and not being able to be open about it. Azeem in London ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 25 Jan 2001 07:41:38 -0800 From: "BRIAN SYMES" Subject: Sweet Sucker Dance3/3 Sweet Sucker Dance Some get broken some get mended some can't surrender Some get lucky some are blessed and some pretend Your such a sweet love Your a proud man you're a treasure Its only a dance! Morning Oregon Meditation The sun rises behind Mt Hood again before it slips above the coastal clouds all the trees are naked but the plums are budding out to show there first voilet flowers The earth is a naked this morning but slowly clothing herself in spring. Bye - ----------------------- Free Email Service provided to you by Office.com, a service from Winstar ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 25 Jan 2001 07:58:25 -0800 From: Steve Dulson Subject: Joni/Juno I just saw a list of the nominees for Canada's Juno awards. It includes: Best Vocal Jazz Album Joni Mitchell Both Sides Now - -- ######################################################## Steve Dulson Costa Mesa CA steve@psitech.com "The Tinker's Own" http://www.tinkersown.com "Southern California Dulcimer Heritage" http://members.aol.com/scdulcimer/ "The Living Tradition Concert Series" http://www.thelivingtradition.org/ ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 25 Jan 2001 11:26:54 -0500 From: "Victor Johnson" Subject: new york, new york (NJC) Holley and I want to come to New York for this Memorial Day gathering so I'm going to keep my fingers crossed. I really wish I could have been in California but maybe if I visualize it enough it will manifest itself. Victor Johnson http://www.cdbaby.com/victorjohnson "Just beyond the morning falls the river of your dreams, Escaping from the day these wild creatures run away." Victor Johnson ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 25 Jan 2001 11:08:55 -0600 From: "J.David Sapp" Subject: threefer madnes 1.Peridots and 2.periwinkle blue medallions 3.Gilded galleons spilled across the ocean floor The roll of the harbor wake The songs that the rigging makes The taste of the spray he takes Come down from the neon nights Come down from the tourist sights Run down till the rain delights you A dream that you love someone A dream that the wars are done A dream that you tell no one but the grey sea peace,david ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 25 Jan 2001 09:27:34 -0800 From: Steve Dulson Subject: MiniFest (NJC) The Paz-man wrote: >When Kakki gets a full blown fest going (you know that week long thing >she has been working on) I wanna spend a whole day playing just >acoustic >intsruments with you. You're on, dude! I want to make another point. One reason that I have not travelled to the NO and NE Jonifests (besides MONEY!) is that I am very aware of my skill level as a musician. Sure, I can bash away on dulcimer OK, but I am a VERY rudimentary rhythm guitarist - the fewer chords the better! Now Paz and some others of you can do wonderful open-tuning spot-on Joni impressions. I'm lost. What I discovered Sunday evening was that some of you also play Joni (and other!) songs in standard tuning - and, hey! I can play along! So, in case there was anyone else hesitating on attending a Joni gathering because of this issue (I'm probably the only one to obsess on it) - don't! You'll play lots of Gs and Cs and Ds and Fs. - -- ######################################################## Steve Dulson Costa Mesa CA steve@psitech.com "The Tinker's Own" http://www.tinkersown.com "Southern California Dulcimer Heritage" http://members.aol.com/scdulcimer/ "The Living Tradition Concert Series" http://www.thelivingtradition.org/ ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 25 Jan 2001 13:03:07 -0500 From: "Stephen Epstein" Subject: #13 Thanks to Bob Muller, I am now enjoying Covers and Contributions Volume 13. Bob, where DO you find these people?? Shawn Colvin's "River" is sublime, but my faves are the 3 by Lydia Van Dam group- who is this gal? Tremendous jazz takes on Joni's classics. And David Hay- what a strong voice. I urge all of you to get this Volume, if it isn't already in your collection. And Bob, thanks again. Stephen in Vancouver ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 25 Jan 2001 10:33:16 -0800 From: Phyliss Ward Subject: Re: "Just Ice" ? Yes, you are missing something. But that's ok, hang around here for a while and you will soon have a PhD in Joni. She was inspired to think about Justice and then write the song after seeing a license plate that said "Just Ice"...the cadillac in the first line of the tune. Get a copy of the "Painting with Words and Music" video and she tells the rest of the story... mintagli@email.ypf.com.ar wrote: > Esteemed, patient List, > > since it weighs on my conscience, I wanted to share this feeling with you: "Sex > kills" is the only Joni song I hate (so far). I cannot not hate a song that > contains such a foolish line as this: "Is justice just ice?" What?! > > Am I missing something? > > Mariana - -- Phyliss mailto:pward@datacourse.com ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 25 Jan 2001 13:50:27 EST From: AsharaJM@aol.com Subject: Memorial Day in New York I will do my very best to be there. Hugs, Ashara ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 25 Jan 2001 16:07:05 -0300 From: mintagli@email.ypf.com.ar Subject: Re: "Just Ice" ? >She was inspired to think about Justice and then write the song after seeing a license plate that said "Just Ice"...the cadillac in the first line of the tune.> I know the story, I just think it's a silly line -a failed wordplay to express a thought that's not only unoriginal but untrue. Thanks anyway. Mariana ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 25 Jan 2001 14:06:32 EST From: SCJoniGuy@aol.com Subject: Re: #13 <> You and a bunch of others, Stephen! Lucky #13 has proven to be very popular, so if anyone missed it and is interested, let me know and we'll get you hooked up. <> My first and BEST resource is fellow JMDLer's...the great folks who scour the record stores, their own collections, even their own memories for inclusions. I dig through music websites too, they can be fun, although sometimes a little overwhelming. (Go to Amazon.com and do a sort on songs containing the word "River"!) ;~) Yesterday I found out that Queen does a version of (You're So Square) Baby, I Don't Care...cool! If you want to be a contributor, and earn a free copy of a Volume, just go to "Joni Undercover" at jmdl.com and take a look at what we're searching... <> I agree, Stephen! I had never heard of this collection until Monica sent me the CD. I was TOTALLY blown away by all 10 tracks. I e-mailed the record company in Holland to get info on how JMDLer's could pick up the disc. No reply. I asked again. No reply. I researched Lydia on the web, to see if the 1999 release was still in print. I located her management group and asked about ordering info and availability of the CD. No answer. Damn! So, I decided to go ahead and include the 10 tracks as part of our project. There are 3 on #13, and another will pop up on #14. (Her fab version of People's Parties which gets a Steely Dan piano treatment). Bob NP: Earl Bostic, "Twilight Time" ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 25 Jan 2001 14:27:11 EST From: JRMCo1@aol.com Subject: Re: Memorial Day in New York NJC << I will do my very best to be there. Hugs, Ashara>> Me too. - -Julius ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 25 Jan 2001 11:33:35 -0800 From: "Kakki" Subject: Re: Aimee Mann (NJC) Jason wrote: > Also, just to defend Michael a little further, the show isn't supposed to > be all about Aimee in the first place. The Acoustic Vaudeville shows were > conceived of as joint venture to showcase both artists' material and > they're both to receive equal billing. Of course, this is undermined in > many cases by promoters who tend to advertise otherwise and focus more on > Aimee, who admittedly has a higher profile, making her seem like the > headliner and Michael as a guest or opener, when that's not the case and > there is no headliner. In fact, the show I saw in Toronto was very > misleadingly promoted as an Aimee-only gig with no word on if there'd even > be a headliner. We didn't know if Michael would be there or not until the > show actually started. It may have thrown a few people off who weren't > expecting him, but I personally was glad he was there. Thanks for the info. They were co-billed at the Largo, too, but I guess I assumed that it would be more about Aimee. I actually like Michael Penn's music very much (very Beatle-ish) and enjoyed him at the show. It did occur to me that maybe Aimee liked the showcase concept and that it made her more comfortable to be surrounded by Penn and friends than to be out there on her own carrying it all. That was the first time I saw Aimee live, however, and while she was fine, I would have appreciated her much more if my focus was not broken up by the performances of the others that were interspersed between her songs. When I later received the great compilation of mostly her solo songs live, it was almost like hearing her for the first time in contrast. Just my take as an Aimee neophyte! Kakki ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 25 Jan 2001 11:32:16 -0800 (PST) From: Alison E Subject: Re: january 25!!!!!!!!!! njc yeah! happy birthday jody! and thanks for the happy birthday message you sent to me on the 20th. i hope you are well, and that you have a great birthday. come to new york for memorial day! take care, alison e. - --- Wally Kairuz wrote: > oh man!!! i'm mad about this girl!!!! > > when i first met her > she was on crutches > she'll never know > how much too much is! > > she's kept me company > through my insomnia > [you may not like it > but it grows on ya!] > > and best of all > right from the first day > she was the one > who knew my birthday!!!!!!!!! > > > drum rrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrroll!!!!!!!!!! > > H A P P Y > > B I R T H D A Y > > > JOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOODYYYYYYYYYYYY!!!!!!!!!! > > thank you for all the late night chats at ashara's! > and thank you for never > mistaking my birthday! > > i love your laughter and how you always end up NOT > sleeping in your tent! > go girl! > wallyK, devoted to birthdaying Yahoo! Auctions - Buy the things you want at great prices. http://auctions.yahoo.com/ ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 25 Jan 2001 13:14:34 -0600 From: "Michael Paz" Subject: The New Orleans News (NJC) Hi Gang- Sitting around the living room with the kids last night eating dinner, we were watching Millionaire and we were surprised by the fact that my friend Bobby ( a New Orleans musician/social worker from the bands Metal Rose and Bag of Donuts) is on the show and winning. He is on again tonight and apparently according to the local drums he actually wins money, but we don't know for sure how much. How cool is that? Hey Bobby can you loan me 30-40 grand for the down payment of the JMDL Commune. Yea dude we are buying Jim Morrison's old place. Yea well it was either that or the old Sharon Tate place and that is no longer cool since Reznor owned it. In other Louisiana news, our infamous Gov. Edwards and son (my former school mate) are going to jail in Texas in seperate prisons. Also Happy Birthday (60) Aaron Neville yesterday. Have a great day all, Love Paz NP-Manic Depression-Jimi Hendrix ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 25 Jan 2001 12:05:32 -0800 From: Randy Remote Subject: Re: Intro to Steely Dan? NJC Their radio hits were "Ricky Don't Lose That Number" and "Reelin' In the Years" but they got better and less commercial after that. Aja is a great album. Wally Kairuz wrote: > this is interesting. can anyone mention a steely dan song??????? i'm not > sure i've ever heard him/them/her/it. a title would help. > wallyK ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 25 Jan 2001 15:06:58 -0500 From: "Victor Johnson" Subject: Re: "Just Ice" ? > >She was inspired to think about Justice and then > write the song after seeing a license plate that said "Just Ice"...the cadillac > in > the first line of the tune.> > > I know the story, I just think it's a silly line -a failed wordplay to express a > thought that's not only unoriginal but untrue. It seems to me in this song that she is asking a question, "Is Justice just ice? Governed by greed and lust?" So, I don't see how this can be untrue, when she is asking a question about justice, not stating a fact. Sex is a powerful thing if you think about it. The same thing that can give birth to something beautiful can destroy and tear people up. The same thing that can seem so soft and warm can also seem cold and hard like ice. I find it an interesting analogy because justice seems to be something that is cold and hard, without warmth. And although I watch a lot of television on Fox (Sunday nights from 7 till 10, Monday from 8 till 10, Tuesday at 9...not religously mind you but in general-that's not so bad is it?), I am somewhat disturbed that they have chosen to feature the show "Temptation Island" which makes a spectacle out of trying to rip two people apart by tempting them with sex? It seems like a sick idea to me that this is supposed to be entertainment. And if you've been watching the news you might have heard that 11 people have been brought up on charges of child prostitution in Atlanta involving girls around the age of 12 and 13. And apparently, pimping is not even a felony, it's only a misdemeanor! Where's the justice there? I don't find anything silly about this song. I think Joni hit something right on the nose. I don't think she could have penned it any better. It would be nice to imagine that such atrocities didn't exist but unfortunately they do. These girls are even tied up and beaten. It's really really scary to think that there are people who actually get a thrill from such things. And the oil spill that just happened in the Galagapus Islands. Please, please tell me what there is in this song that is not true because it seems way too vivid and so on the mark. Victor, who rarely participates in song analysis but felt inspired http://www.cdbaby.com/victorjohnson "Just beyond the morning falls the river of your dreams, Escaping from the day these wild creatures run away." Victor Johnson ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 25 Jan 2001 15:12:46 -0500 From: "Victor Johnson" Subject: Re: The New Orleans News (NJC) > NP-Manic Depression-Jimi Hendrix My friends who have a long time Atlanta band-League of Decency- recently recorded this song for their new album but it was rejected by Jimi's cousin or sister-in-law (who ever's in charge of his estate) because she didn't like the guitar part that was transcribed for their horn section(they're a swing band). I'm guessing she's not a big fan of Zappa's version of "Stairway" either. Victor Johnson http://www.cdbaby.com/victorjohnson "Just beyond the morning falls the river of your dreams, Escaping from the day these wild creatures run away." Victor Johnson ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 25 Jan 2001 15:44:57 -0500 From: "Patricia O'Connor" Subject: Re: "Just Ice" ? Mariana wrote: > I know the story, I just think it's a silly line -a failed wordplay I agree with Mariana. "JUST-ICE" may be clever on a license plate but it's nearly meaningless in the song. To take it further: "Lawyers haven't been this popular, since Robespierre slaughtered half of France" would be a charming, sarcastic comment at a dinner party (unless of course the other guest were predominately lawyers:>) but does nothing for the lyric. Patricia O'Connor p.a.oconnor@att.net ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 25 Jan 2001 14:44:39 -0500 From: "cassy" Subject: Re: "Just Ice" ? Mariana said: >>> since it weighs on my conscience, I wanted to share this feeling with you: "Sex kills" is the only Joni song I hate (so far). I cannot not hate a song that contains such a foolish line as this: "Is justice just ice?" What?! Am I missing something? <<< Is "justice just ice?" Some may consider it so, to me it means that justice is a cold unfeeling process and has no regard for the consideration of individuals. Ice is hard, without any warmth whatsoever much as our judicial system can be. Cassy NP: Bruce Hornsby "Mandolin Rain" ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 25 Jan 2001 16:00:15 -0500 (EST) From: "Duane J. Corpis" Subject: Re: Justice is Just ice (long) Just my 2 cents, I do not think that Joni is saying that greed and lust created HIV or AIDS. When I first heard this song, I was a little put off by it, and I consider myself a good ole progressive liberal sympathetic to the message that I think Joni is trying to convey. I just didn't like the execution of the message in the song. I think Joni has some really clever political songs ("Paved Paradise") and some moving social commentaries ("Cherokee Louise" or "Magdelane Laundries"), but this song really doesn't do it for me. As others have pointed out, it's too eclectic, though I think from Jim's lengthy analysis of the lyrics, he dislikes the eclectism b/c it is a list that sounds like a liberal mantra with little fact or reality behind it. I don't agree with his political interpretation, but I do agree that as an aesthetic matter, the political message is watered down and rendered absurd with its rapid fire laundry list of social, economic and political ills. Nevertheless, I think the line "Sex sells everything and sex kills" refers to the fact that in a post-AIDS society, we continue to use sex to sell products, we still valorize youth, beauty and sexuality -- the nubile body of a woman or the muscular body of a man -- to sell beer, cars, Hollywood, the music industry (the Backstreet Boys, Brittainy Spears), etc. etc. I think the song is saying that corporations use and manipulate images of sexuality to sell products, but they ignore the cultural messages that these images project. Do these images create unrealistic expectations about our bodies? About our sex lives? Are companies profiting off of the American public's lack of self-esteem, on the one hand, (most Americans are by medical standards out of shape and overweight), and at the same time are they making profits from our excessive body-image consciousness and encouraging us to neglect our minds and spirits? I think this is a long-standing critique that Joni has had about consumer society, and especially about the music industry. Furthermore, this lyric may be an attempt to question whether these images of sex and sexuality reproduce certain normative gender assumptions -- that women should look and act like the sexy vixens that they seem to be in beer ads, and that men should look and act like the macho studs they seem to be in the same ads. Sex sells everything -- but are the media images of sex and sexuality responsible images, especially in a post-AIDS world in which a whole new generation of gay and lesbian activists have come to see the political dimensions of sex and sexuality or in which unsafe sexual practices may have a link to an unthinking, uncritical assimilation of sexual images propagated by the media and advertising. Not a defense of the song, which I always have to skip on the cd player, but a possible interpretation of one of the lines that others have argued doesn't make any sense. Ciao, Duane ------------------------------ End of JMDL Digest V2001 #41 **************************** ------- Post messages to the list by clicking here: mailto:joni@smoe.org Unsubscribe by clicking here: mailto:joni-digest-request@smoe.org?body=unsubscribe ------- Siquomb, isn't she?