From: les@jmdl.com (JMDL Digest) To: joni-digest@smoe.org Subject: JMDL Digest V2001 #24 Reply-To: joni@smoe.org Sender: les@jmdl.com Errors-To: les@jmdl.com Precedence: bulk Unsubscribe: mailto:joni-digest-request@smoe.org?body=unsubscribe Archives: http://www.smoe.org/lists/joni Websites: http://www.jmdl.com http://www.jonimitchell.com JMDL Digest Sunday, January 14 2001 Volume 2001 : Number 024 The 'Official' Joni Mitchell Homepage, created by Wally Breese, can be found at http://www.jonimitchell.com. It contains the latest news, a detailed bio, Original Interviews, essays, lyrics and much much more. The JMDL website can be found at http://www.jmdl.com and contains interviews, articles, the member gallery, archives, and much more. ========== TOPICS and authors in this Digest: -------- RE: Jungle Line, ~~ an essay, very long, 100% Joni Mitchell Content!! ["] Russ's awesome shirts (NJC) [stealth@voicenet.com] Re: Russ's awesome shirts (NJC) ["Kakki" ] Re: Jungle Line, ~~ an essay, very long, 100% Joni Mitchell Content!! [] RE: Jungle Line, ~~ an essay, very long, 100% Joni Mitchell Content!! ["] NJC Re: The Jungle Line (Lama's essay) ["Gerald" ] RE: Jungle Line, ~~ an essay, very long, 100% Joni Mitchell Content!! ["] Re: politics and our rigidity (md) [catman ] Re: The Party (SJC) & JazzFest [Michael Paz ] Re: Russ's awesome shirts (NJC) [Michael Paz ] Re: Word from MG's House of Anchovies(NJC) [Michael Paz ] Re: Thanks for the Willy comment [Michael Paz ] Re: politics and our rigidity (md-2) [catman ] Re: politics and our rigidity (md-2) [Michael Paz ] Interesting Items on Ebay [Michael Paz ] Re: HOSL & Judy's Chelsea Morning [SCJoniGuy@aol.com] This final thing (NJC) [Michael Paz ] RE: Jungle Line, ~~ an essay, very long, 99.5% Joni MitchellContent!! ["] ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Sun, 14 Jan 2001 13:56:03 -0600 From: "Eric Wilcox" Subject: RE: Jungle Line, ~~ an essay, very long, 100% Joni Mitchell Content!! A few more thoughts on your post, Jim: Lamadoo wrote: "Rousseau is painting an urban scene...." Wrong. Rousseau doesn't paint urban scenes. If you'd like to check out some of his work, go to this page: http://www.ibiblio.org/wm/paint/auth/rousseau/ anyways-- what you will notice right away is taht all of his paintings are set in -- the jungle. So instead of seeing the song through Rousseau's eyes-- lets look at the comparison. Rousseau in his jungle proper, and Joni in her urban jungle. eric - -----Original Message----- From: owner-joni@jmdl.com [mailto:owner-joni@jmdl.com]On Behalf Of Jim L'Hommedieu Sent: Sunday, January 14, 2001 6:01 AM To: _JMDL - June 98; TanyerSCO@aol.com Subject: Re: Jungle Line, ~~ an essay, very long, 100% Joni Mitchell Content!! Tanya, in NYC (at least for another week) said in Digest #18 on Saturday morning, > I just can't make it through > Jungle Line. It's just so > different from anything she > did before it, I think it's > just not speaking to me and > I'm not getting it. The rest > of the album, I get - - beautiful. > It's funny because when I first > heard Hejira I thought it was > the wierdest thing Joni had > ever done - now I get it, it > speaks to me and I love it. > Will the same thing happen > with Jungle Line?" Hi Tanya, In a word, "Yes". You _will_ get "The Jungle Line". It's not so different from the rest of Joni's songs. She's working with several new media but there's nothing new about that!! Her trademark attention to quality shines through. Don't let those drums throw you! When I read your post, I thought, "Oh good! A chance to talk about _The Hissing Of Summer Lawns_." I love this album. I've been singing the songs, reading the lyrics, jumping around to the drum tracks, examining the artwork, humming the tunes, soaking it up, pondering it, and most of all, celebrating it since it was new. I've even participated in a discussion list on the Internet about this album. :) I apologize in advance if I sound like a know-it-all. I've been accused of that in the past. I'm not. I'm just gonna be myself and use my own words, okay? Here goes: ~~ To understand "The Jungle Line", you have to understand the album as a whole. You have to be open to the idea that a CD can be as great as a book. Just like any great piece of literature, each element, each chapter defines part of the whole. The Hissing of Summer Lawns is a masterwork. There is no "fat" on this album. Everything is there on purpose and serves to support the whole. Joni has masterfully built an exquisitely detailed, multimedia work that begins with the fold open cover. So, the themes on the cover are the themes of the album. Let's open up the double-square cover and look at it as the _rectangle_ that she intended..... You can "read" the cover from left to right. On the left, you see a wealthy person's home in some hills, complete with a "blue pool" in the backyard. It's quite far from everything else. From this, I surmise that it's possible that some of the characters on this album are modern and wealthy and very much in their own world. :) There's a Christian church that is separate from all else. Separate from the home with a pool, separate from the modern world, separate from the jungle figures. The church is a concept unto itself. Lastly, we get to the heart of the matter. Two things- juxtaposed vertically. In the foreground is a group of primitive people, fresh from a kill. These folks are the only people in the picture, as if we are all African no matter where we live. They have slain a snake, a symbol of evil to Christians. Uh-oh, the themes are interacting already. They are familiar with death. In the background is the ordered modern world, both suburban and urban. We are observing the primitive and the modern simultaneously. While writing this post, I just found something brand new in this 25 year-old graphic. Long ago I noticed that Joni used blue in only two places on the whole cover. It's in the wealthy person's home on the left. Look at the other end of the picture, at the _other_ use of blue. Check it out. Isn't it striking how this small war-era building looks like the childhood home in Maidstone, Saskatchewan Canada of a certain under-appreciated, multi-talented master that we all know? Did anyone "get" this before? Judge for yourself- Ashara generously shot Joni's Maidstone house for posterity and included it at 1 hour, 57 minutes into JMDL Video Tree #2 (tape #1). It was shot on a windy July 1, 2000. Thank you Ashara. Okay, I admit the windows are different but many, many of the other details match like a hand and its shadow. IMO two of Joni's homes are right there- highlighted in blue, bookending the cover at the extreme left and the extreme right. I'm not saying that these are literal representations- only that the author may have used architecture familiar to herself and that we are privileged to look over her shoulder in this small way. Anyway, this graphic sets the themes. Enough about the cover. Let's pop in the CD and listen to the first track. I think of "In France They Kiss On Main Street" as classic Joni. It's sort of about young people partying. Every thing's primary colors. There are "Kisses like bright flags hung on holidays". It could be a track from Court and Spark, the preceding studio album. The listener has something familiar to enter with. It's a throwback. It's an introduction to the album. It's about kids raised in "middle-class circumstance" who have gone to the City to become young adults. It's about youthful exuberance and the lack of experience that makes partying seem harmless when you're in your twenties. These are partiers who haven't seen a friend die of drunk driving.... There are no dead junkies on this track. If this album was a book, the next chapter would be "The Jungle Line". The second chapter begins abruptly. The suburban kids are gone and we listeners are alone, confronting something ancient, primal, and as we will see, deadly. We are in the African jungle listening to.... war drums. There is no narrator. Nothing familiar to the westerner, just the frenetic beat of a big gang of hand-made drums, calling for war. The drums are in the foreground. We are thrown into a strange land wondering what the hell is next. This is like the huge jump-cut in an American film, "The Deer Hunter". One moment you're observing every tiny, tiny detail at a friend's wedding. The next millisecond you're over wartime Vietnam, staring out the open door of a roaring American helicopter, wondering where the snipers are......... "We are not in Kansas anymore, Toto." About the drum track, Joni said that she owns an album of the Burundi 'warrior' drummers and liked to dance to it. As I recall, she said that she hears a Bo Diddley figure in there, but she may have been talking about the later "The Tenth World". (See Tape Tree #5, complied by Simon, "My Top 12" - from BBC Radio 1, London, England - broadcast May 29, 1983.) In fact, at the time, she include the Burundi drummers as one of her top 12 tracks of biggest influences! So I guess she started with the rhythm track and built it up from there. If there is a single key to liking this track, maybe it is picturing the author dancing to the drums in her kitchen with her cats. As the camera pulls back, out the kitchen window and up, you can see an aerial view of the Spanish compound on the cover. :) Imagine that she's dancing to the African drums, thinking about the primal pleasure of live music in a nightclub, the dangers of the drug culture, and in contrast, the simplicity of a distant church. All of the rest of the stories on the album flow out of these images. Together they form a classic Joni duality- the jungle within the city. She's been writing about these things from the first album, observing first the country, then the city. Anyway, when HOSL was released, drums had never been so prominent on one of her studio albums. Here's a new color on Joni's palette. The drums reflect the African influence on the cover and the song's title. She used layers of ominous sounds from a pioneering electronic instrument called a Moog synthesizer. This was a huge departure too. "The Jungle Line" signals that this album is not "Court and Spark 2, The Sequel". So, here she is, a folk singer no more. A pop singer no more. She's not only playing a Moog, she's _layering_ it on top of a African rhythm track. She's composing with layers; she's now become a record producer. But not a _folk_ producer. She's not putting dulcimers on top of nylon strung acoustic guitars. She's not putting strings on top of jazz-pop songs (as John Lennon suggested) like on Court and Spark. This is something new yet again. She's juxtaposing African rhythms with synthesizer! The ancient/primitive with the modern/electronic. Amazing in itself. All the more amazing when you realize that she did it in 1975! You gotta realize this was before Paul Simon was lauded for inventing "World Music". Before Sting was celebrated for hiring Branford Marsalis. Anyway, like the cover, the primitive is in the foreground and the urban is being observed from a distance. The words on The Hissing of Summer Lawns. Oh, the words! If there was any doubt before, it is now clear that Joni is a deep thinker. On "The Jungle Line", the words borrow the ambiguity of "Sweet Bird" (also on this album). It's more of a scene than a story. Joni, (the narrator and a painter herself), is looking over the shoulder of another painter. This time out it's Rousseau. Rousseau is painting an urban scene, a nightclub. There's lots of excitement in the air, (live music, a low-cut blouse, beer) and more than a hint of danger. The narrator enters the painting and never leaves. The rest of "The Hissing Of Summer Lawns" is all about this one painting. It's people. About the primitive world in the city. About danger. She never goes back to the innocent, youthful partiers. As Springsteen observed, "there's a darkness on the edge of town." She never calls for a return "to some semblance of a garden". The narrator notices that the waitress is working among "cannibals" who might "eat a working girl like her alive". Then the danger theme is duplicated in an image of a poppy wreath on a soldier's tomb- a drug death. She works these images into a Tangled (hi Victor!) vine near the end, intertwining poison (the jungle's danger) and mouthpiece spit (the vulnerable, primitive musicians), and the nightclub (the urban scene). Then the "camera" pulls back, still inside the Rousseau painting, and we go "steaming up to Brooklyn Bridge", as if to say "There are a million stories in the Naked City." We go traveling, traveling, traveling in New York City, to look for the next chapter in this book about dangers and compromises and paradoxes of the twin worlds. We witness Edith and the Kingpin locked in their awful yet perfect embrace where meeting your mate is also meeting your match. A new adult world in which every blessing is a curse. Where benefactors kindly offer perils yet parasites carry blessings. A world where hostages are forced to do the unthinkable.... to smile for the camera. All of the themes from the cover except the church are right there in "The Jungle Line". This is not a minor work. This album is the work of a multi-dimensional Master at the top of all of her games simultaneously. A masterwork. Now Tanya, will you give "The Jungle Line" just one more try? All the best, Lama PS- Thanks for the bandwidth Les. Without you, for whom would I write? ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 14 Jan 2001 15:13:08 US/Eastern From: stealth@voicenet.com Subject: Russ's awesome shirts (NJC) Russ wrote: For the first lucky few in LA next week; get a garment from Nikki!!! Supplies are limited so get there early. Yes Russ made some awesome Hijera shirts for us! And he left the extras for me to take to LA with me so for all of you there I will have some whoever gets to me 1st! Thanks Russ that was very nice of you to do:-) Love Nikki - --------------------------------------------- This message was sent using Voicenet WebMail. http://www.voicenet.com/webmail/ ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 14 Jan 2001 12:25:13 -0800 From: "Kakki" Subject: Re: Russ's awesome shirts (NJC) Nikki wrote: > Russ wrote: > For the first lucky few in LA next week; get a garment from Nikki!!! > Supplies are limited so get there early. > > Yes Russ made some awesome Hijera shirts for us! And he left the extras for me to take to > LA with me so for all of you there I will have some whoever gets to me 1st! Thanks Russ > that was very nice of you to do:-) > Love Nikki This is so sweet! Russ gifted me with this beautiful shirt awhile back and IMO it's better than most of the "official" ones I've seen! VERY stylish and sharp. Thanks so much, Russ, for your generosity - wish you could join us in L.A. next weekend! Glad you all had a great party last night! Kakki ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 14 Jan 2001 12:39:01 -0800 From: "Kakki" Subject: Re: Jungle Line, ~~ an essay, very long, 100% Joni Mitchell Content!! Great essay Lama! You wrote: > Isn't it striking how this small war-era building looks like the childhood > home in Maidstone, Saskatchewan Canada of a certain under-appreciated, > multi-talented master that we all know? Did anyone "get" this before? > > Judge for yourself- Ashara generously shot Joni's Maidstone house for > posterity and included it at 1 hour, 57 minutes into JMDL Video Tree #2 > (tape #1). It was shot on a windy July 1, 2000. Thank you Ashara. Okay, I > admit the windows are different but many, many of the other details match > like a hand and its shadow. I recall the great thread (last Spring, I believe) which discussed the houses on the HOSL cover and how they may have represented houses Joni lived in throughout her life. When I later viewed Ashara's video of Joni's house in Maidstone, there was that thrill of recognition immediately! Tanya, you may want to do a search in the digests for this thread - it is really fascinating reading. There are also several other in-depth posts from around the same time that greatly illuminate the themes in the HOSL album. Kakki ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 14 Jan 2001 16:09:25 -0500 From: "Jim L'Hommedieu" Subject: RE: Jungle Line, ~~ an essay, very long, 100% Joni Mitchell Content!! Hi Eric, Oh Gawd, thank you Eric. I see what you mean about a live snake. Then the snake is danger en route. Death available for delivery to your enemy's door. If the snake is not evil and death, I guess we agree that the snake is danger or sin, then? Interesting..... I like your interpretation now that I've been exposed to it. To my old thinking, the snake was evil-conquered and converted into something useful- meat. He is danger in the past tense. In your scenario, the snake is dangerous right NOW; the snake is so dangerous that it takes a village to subdue it. It's not been conquered at all. Its just being confronted at great effort and risk. Joni is portraying the _struggle_ with the snake. That fits in much better with the persistent danger theme elsewhere whereas my conquered-danger is just kind of.... lifeless. (Pun intended) This is **EXACTLY** the kind of Lit class interaction that I longed for before I was on JMDL. Thank you. Lama > -----Original Message----- > From: Eric Wilcox [mailto:edwilcox@students.wisc.edu] > > GREAT post, Jim. I love it when JMDLers are able to explore how tracks > interact together on albums.... > > However.... one thing bothered me. How do we know that the snake on the > front cover is dead? Perhaps it is very much alive-- and the > primitives on > the cover are tansporting it out of the city into the suburbs? or out of > the jungle-- into the city. If we see the snake as a symbol of > sin--- then > the idea of re-introducing sin into what is seen as a perfect area-- the > suburbs-- could factor in, couldn't it? If the snake is dead-- > then sin is > dead, too, and I don't see that as possible on this album. > > eric ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 14 Jan 2001 15:19:28 -0600 From: "Gerald" Subject: NJC Re: The Jungle Line (Lama's essay) It will be a whole new experience listening to HOSL since reading Lama's essay. Thanks for the in depth perspective. [demime 0.97c removed an attachment of type image/gif] ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 14 Jan 2001 15:27:15 -0800 From: Michael Paz Subject: I Did it! (NJC) Attention Dave Matthews Fans Dave Matthews released a new single on mp3 format through Napster. This is an industry first. It's a cool song and a new sound for Dave and the boys. Can't wait till the new record comes out. If you are not a Napster Junkie and want this mp3 file, please email me and I would be happy to send it to you. Happy sunday, Michael (tooth still paining) NP-Tangerine-Dave Matthews and Tim Reynolds ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 14 Jan 2001 16:41:18 -0500 From: "Jim L'Hommedieu" Subject: RE: Jungle Line, ~~ an essay, very long, 100% Joni Mitchell Content!! Hi Eric, Okay, again, I'm very glad to have this new information, that Rousseau painted jungle scenes. I don't know paintings- I'm a photographer. :) That's very interesting but in Joni's song, Joni's fantasy of Rousseau, he *is* painting the bar scene. Check this: "In a low-cut blouse she brings the beer. *Rousseau* paints a jungle flower behind her ear. With his hard-edged eyes and steady hand *he paints the cellar* full of ferns and orchid vines and he 'hangs' a moon above a five-pieced band." In Joni's fantasy of Rousseau, the jungle painter is in a cellar nightclub, rendering the primitive that he perceives within the urban scene. As if Joni's saying, "If Rousseau was here, here's what *he'd* see. This is what he would notice and capture." Just my two cents. Lama > Lamadoo wrote: > "Rousseau is painting an urban scene...." > -----Original Message----- > From: Eric Wilcox [mailto:edwilcox@students.wisc.edu] > Wrong. Rousseau doesn't paint urban scenes. If you'd like to check out > some of his work, go to this page: > http://www.ibiblio.org/wm/paint/auth/rousseau/ > > anyways-- what you will notice right away is taht all of his paintings are > set in -- the jungle. > > So instead of seeing the song through Rousseau's eyes-- lets look at the > comparison. Rousseau in his jungle proper, and Joni in her urban jungle. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 14 Jan 2001 21:50:59 +0000 From: catman Subject: Re: politics and our rigidity (md) > Example: I sent on lister an atrticle (3 > actually) that contained well documented list if the events that have > created the middle east issues. He hasnt responded back. I can only assume he > has no alternative historical evidence. or perhaps he has no interest in croresponding with rude arrogant people. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 14 Jan 2001 16:52:36 EST From: SCJoniGuy@aol.com Subject: HOSL & Judy's Chelsea Morning Firstly, chapeaus off to you Lama for your SUPERB essay on HOSL, as well as the thoughtful comments it generated. Long may you run! Second, it has been brought to me attention that Judy Collins did a 45 of Chelsea Morning which was never put on album. The Chelsea we have in the Covers collection is from her album "Living" and is a live version. Just wonder if any of you flower children out there have this single in your collection so we can appropriately include it. Lots of other exciting things going on "behind the scenes" in the realm of Joni songs by others...stay tuned! Bob ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 14 Jan 2001 16:14:41 -0800 From: Michael Paz Subject: Re: Jungle Line, ~~ an essay, very long, 100% Joni Mitchell Content!! on 1/14/01 4:01 AM, Jim L'Hommedieu at jlamadoo@home.com wrote: > Now Tanya, will you give "The Jungle Line" just one more try? OH MY GAWD!!! OK OK OK! Even I will give it another try. Paz ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 14 Jan 2001 16:14:37 -0800 From: Michael Paz Subject: Re: january 13!!!!!! (NJC) Wally wrote: > i miss you too, and i'm kicking myself for not spending more time with you > last september. but then, jimmy and van tiel monopolized you so, you were > practically sandwiched between the netherlands and the deep south!!!!!!! > happiness and love, Thats whe she wasn't making a Paz sandwich on the beach with Kakki and I have the pics to prove it. I showed all those pics to my dad last night and he was commenting on how many pics I have with all these beautiful women. A couple were called babes and it was somehwhat difficult side stepping the fact that indeed I have many more babes as friends than I do you blokes. Later Paz NP-Hair-The Cowsills ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 14 Jan 2001 16:30:35 -0800 From: Michael Paz Subject: Re: The Party (SJC) & JazzFest Diane- I was responding to a question from Dave. No I have not heard that YET. I have very close ties with the Jazz Fest folks and we provide the audio services for the nigght concerts and one stage at the fairgrounds. Please contact me privatly before you hit town and we will make some plans. My wicked step brother Julius is suppose to be here from SF along with a few other friends so we canhave a mini joni fest with or without her being here. paz NP-Some Are Born-Jon Anderson Live on 1/14/01 6:21 AM, Diane Evans at diquintevans@hotmail.com wrote: > Dave (and Paz), > > Wait, wait! If you have discussed this before, please be patient. I'm > still a fairly new lister. > > You wrote: >> Wonder whether Joni will ever make another appearance at the Fest, >heard >> she had a tough time w/ her new axe last trip. > > Is there a chance she may show up?! I've wanted to go to the JazzFest for > years and just booked/paid for our rooms and airfare for this year's > festival. It would be the ultimate treat to see her there...:-D > > Dreamin like I do, > Diane > _________________________________________________________________ > Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 14 Jan 2001 16:31:30 -0800 From: Michael Paz Subject: Re: Russ's awesome shirts (NJC) on 1/14/01 7:13 AM, stealth@voicenet.com at stealth@voicenet.com wrote: > Russ wrote: > For the first lucky few in LA next week; get a garment from Nikki!!! > Supplies are limited so get there early. > > Yes Russ made some awesome Hijera shirts for us! And he left the extras for me > to take to > LA with me so for all of you there I will have some whoever gets to me 1st! > Thanks Russ > that was very nice of you to do:-) > Love Nikki > > > > --------------------------------------------- > This message was sent using Voicenet WebMail. > http://www.voicenet.com/webmail/ > What flight did you day you were coming in on? Me first me first. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 14 Jan 2001 16:33:46 -0800 From: Michael Paz Subject: Re: Word from MG's House of Anchovies(NJC) I look absolutely nothing like this sub human Segal. Just cause we both wear pony tails. That's it I am chopping my hair off. Paz NP-I Shall Be Released-Warren Haynes, Govt. Mule with Tim Reynolds Acoustic on 1/14/01 5:26 AM, stealth@voicenet.com at stealth@voicenet.com wrote: > Wally wrote about calling MG's house Of Anchovies: > there was no sign of nikki, though. what could that naughty child be doing, > one wonders? > > Now a gal can't give away all her secrets can she...LOL! > Nauughty......me?????? Never.... > I was playing geetar, and trying to find the lyrics for Marcel's Republican > Mating song > before he could play it. Then of course I have to make sure the anchovies > didn't get > away...all that after a hard day's work on MG's "to do" list. > I wish I woulda gotten to talk to you Wally! I was telling Russ to let you > know I still > have your bracelete on! After you called Michael Paz (Steven Segal...as MG's > neighbor > called him from seeing a fest picture)called. He wanted to make sure he added > the > salacious part of the party as usual...lol. And THEN Marian all the way from > Vienna caled > JUST after Marcel and Russ walked out the door! So I got to speak to her. What > a sweetie, > I have never met her but she sure was a nice person to talk to. > It was great to meet Marcel and Russ, both very nice gentlemen. Marcel and I > played some > tunes...mostly Joni and Dylan and some others. And MG well I had to slap her > around a bit > and keep her in line as usual...but she was on good behavior. Can't wait to > see everyone > else in LA! > Love Nikki ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 14 Jan 2001 17:54:25 -0500 From: "Paul Pennington" Subject: Re: HOSL & Judy's Chelsea Morning Bob wrote: "...it has been brought to my attention that Judy Collins did a 45 of Chelsea Morning which was never put on album. The Chelsea we have in the Covers collection is from her album "Living" and is a live version." I have a nearly complete run of Judy Collins albums, but no 45's, unfortunately. Actually, we have two versions of Chelsea Morning in the Covers collection: a 1997 version from "Forever, An Anthology" on Vol 2, Disk 1, and the 1971 version from "Living" on Vol. 5. The one we're looking for is from the 1968 "Who Knows Where the Time Goes" sessions, and is on Elektra EK-45657. Paul Pennington Augusta, Georgia ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 14 Jan 2001 17:33:48 -0800 From: Michael Paz Subject: Re: MG, Nikki and the Davis Gang. (Hardly any Joni content.) Russ- Thanks you very much for your kindness and Furry T-Shirts (lol) it was good to speak to you last night. Sounded like you guys were having a great time. Too bad the Mixons were not available, it couild have turned into a real hootnanny. Paz NP-Jericho-mp3 by Richard Isen on 1/14/01 10:39 AM, Russell Bowden at rustytrazom@hotmail.com wrote: > Gang, > > Russ reporting from San Francisco......The small, but very cool, > Joni-fest in Davis, CA (hostessed by Mary Grace and Nikki) was a fun, > warm eveing of good music (thanks Nikki and Marcel) and WONDERFUL food by > the Tres Charment MG. Michael Paz and Wally K. were kind enough to join > us via satellite hook-up from New Orleans and Buenos Aires, respectively. > > For the first lucky few in LA next week; get a garment from Nikki!!! > Supplies are limited so get there early. > > Thanks MG for a great evening. > > Russ > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 14 Jan 2001 17:33:51 -0800 From: Michael Paz Subject: Re: Charity / Cherokee Emily- I often react to joni's music by her inflection of just one word or sigh. It's part of that total package that makes her the most incredible songwriter of all time and did you know she makes up her own tunings and chord shapes. One of these days I need to write a song about a typewriter that had keys that kept exchanging places. Another couple of single words that did it for mer were: "magnet and iron" "concealed" also one of my all time fave lines: "breaking like the waves at Malibu" The first time I went to LA I spent a full afternoon on the beach by myself and that lyric going thru my head and heart over and over. Michael NP-They Dance Alone (Cueca Solo)-Sting on 1/14/01 11:21 AM, Emily Kirk Gray at ekg200@is5.nyu.edu wrote: > hi all. i'm listening to TI now, haven't in a while... > it's a gorgeous, moody, troubled album. her voice > is so pained here. > > anyway, just now as i was playing "magdalene laundries" > at the part where she sings "our lady of charity -- > oh, charity" with a planet full of anger, regret, > and sadness all in that last word -- > > well, i suddenly heard the last word as "cherokee," > very clearly. although i know that's not what she sings. > and it made a perfect connection to me with "cherokee > louise" -- as if the story of these helpless women > echoes and links and reminds her of that other, horrifying, > particular story of "my friend" louise. > > just a thought. has anyone else heard this or thought it? > maybe we've already discussed, and i missed it. > > > --emily > > NP: "not to blame" ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 14 Jan 2001 17:41:18 -0800 From: Michael Paz Subject: Re: Thanks for the Willy comment on 1/14/01 9:27 AM, jonifan@clearsong.com at jonifan@clearsong.com wrote: > There's a RealAudio and mp3 sound file of my version of JERICHO which I do > with just piano and bass kind of nightclub setting and very much inspired by > Shirley Horn who is probably my favorite singer. > > http://www.clearsong.com/sounds for the Jericho files as well as the Willy > cover in Real and MP3 > > > > _____________________________________________ > Richard Isen > > Clearsong Records > . . .because a song is like a good companion. > > please visit http://www.clearsong.com > Just finished listening to these Joni covers. What nice versions! Your voice reminds me of Steve Polifka (another very talented JMDLer that needs no mic when he sings). Post more Joni mp3's to your site as well. i also enjoyed the Neil Cover. I encourage you other music sluts and computer nerds to hightail it over to this site and check them out. Paz NP-Countryside-Chris Stills ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 14 Jan 2001 23:45:38 +0000 From: catman Subject: Re: politics and our rigidity (md-2) MDESTE1@aol.com wrote: > In a message dated 1/14/01 2:01:30 PM Pacific Standard Time, > colin@tantra.fsbusiness.co.uk writes: > > << or perhaps he has no interest in croresponding with rude arrogant people. > >> > > Or perhaps its the truth (because it is) and he doesnt have a thing he can > respond intellectually with so he hides behind smarmy umbrage. Sorry Colin > but thats what you do. I appreciate many of your points (and I always have) > but in this case you whiffed. Now go find some arguments and get off this "my > feelings are hurt so I dont have to play" kiddie defense. marcel For a long time now, you have consistently been extremely rude to people on the list, you shoot down everybody who disagrees with you, you make disparaging remarks, you patronize, sneer and are genrally very unpleasant to those whose opinions differ from yours. As for my feelings being, you really need to grow up and look at your behaviour towards others. i don't care about you so you can't hurt my feelings. I am just sick and tired of reading you abusing people. I have asked you not to write to me but you insist in doing so. Perhaps you should take alook at yourself. - -- bw colin colin@tantra.fsbusiness.co.uk http://www.geocities.com/tantra_apso/index.html ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 14 Jan 2001 17:53:56 -0800 From: Michael Paz Subject: Re: Jungle Line, ~~ an essay, very long, 99.5% Joni Mitchell Content!! on 1/14/01 1:41 PM, Jim L'Hommedieu at jlamadoo@home.com wrote: > "In a low-cut blouse > she brings the beer. > *Rousseau* paints a jungle flower behind her ear. > > With his hard-edged eyes and steady hand *he paints the cellar* full of > ferns and orchid vines > and he 'hangs' a moon above a five-pieced band." Sounds like and urban scene to me. Very similar to one of those sleazy all night bars in the quarter with the drag queen rock n roll bands. Didn't we have to drag you out of there Jim?? Also reminds me of one night after a dinner with Joni at Maximo's. We were waiting for her to show at a party at the home of our mutual friend Lucy. Joni came to the door ( I think with Gloria an old road mgr of hers ) and announced she would be back later cause she was gonna go to a gentlemans club to do some research. This would have been around the time of TTT. Sorry I digress into a bit of my Joni past. Paz NP-I've Had It-Aimee Mann ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 14 Jan 2001 17:55:01 -0800 From: Michael Paz Subject: Re: politics and our rigidity (md) on 1/14/01 1:50 PM, catman at colin@tantra.fsbusiness.co.uk wrote: > or perhaps he has no interest in croresponding with rude arrogant people. > come on now Colin. Flames are not necessary and solve NOTHING. Paz ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 14 Jan 2001 17:56:52 -0800 From: Michael Paz Subject: Re: HOSL & Judy's Chelsea Morning on 1/14/01 1:52 PM, SCJoniGuy@aol.com at SCJoniGuy@aol.com wrote: > Lots of other exciting things going on "behind the scenes" in the realm of > Joni songs by others...stay tuned! you are such a tease! ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 14 Jan 2001 18:06:20 -0800 From: Michael Paz Subject: Re: politics and our rigidity (md-2) Colin- I don't see where this quote of Marcel's came across the list. This list requests that private posts NOT be quoted without the authors permission. Please refrain from this war on the list. If you don't like what Marcel has to say DON'T READ HIS SHIT. If you have a personal gripe with him that you cannot solve yourself offlist, please take it to the ListMaster. Please chill out bro and if there is some actual "abuse" as you say, those people can deal with themselves. CAN'T WE ALL JUST GET ALONG??? Peace to all PaZ NP-For Free-Miles of Aisles on Sonicnet on 1/14/01 3:45 PM, catman at colin@tantra.fsbusiness.co.uk wrote: > MDESTE1@aol.com wrote: > >> In a message dated 1/14/01 2:01:30 PM Pacific Standard Time, >> colin@tantra.fsbusiness.co.uk writes: >> >> << or perhaps he has no interest in croresponding with rude arrogant people. >>>> >> >> Or perhaps its the truth (because it is) and he doesnt have a thing he can >> respond intellectually with so he hides behind smarmy umbrage. Sorry Colin >> but thats what you do. I appreciate many of your points (and I always have) >> but in this case you whiffed. Now go find some arguments and get off this "my >> feelings are hurt so I dont have to play" kiddie defense. marcel > > For a long time now, you have consistently been extremely rude to people on > the list, you > shoot down everybody who disagrees with you, you make disparaging remarks, you > patronize, > sneer and are genrally very unpleasant to those whose opinions differ from > yours. > As for my feelings being, you really need to grow up and look at your > behaviour towards > others. i don't care about you so you can't hurt my feelings. I am just sick > and tired of > reading you abusing people. > I have asked you not to write to me but you insist in doing so. > Perhaps you should take alook at yourself. > > > > -- > bw > colin > > colin@tantra.fsbusiness.co.uk > http://www.geocities.com/tantra_apso/index.html ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 15 Jan 2001 00:33:47 +0000 From: catman Subject: Re: politics and our rigidity (md-2) perhaps you are correct. I don't see why when someone wishes to give a different point of view from that of others they need to sneer, be rude, belittle, and generally abuse people.(I don't consdier pointing this out to the person concerned to be abusive) It obviously doesn't bother you. How can we 'all get along' if people openly abuse others and others tell us to let them? I was perhaps stupid to have stuck my neck out. I am sure so one else will. I should have left it to those, more than i can count on one hand, who are offended by those posts. I find it odd that you should write to me publicly, telling me off for telling someone off publicly. I haven't seen any posts from you addressing those abusive posts either. Maybe it doesn't bother you. I find it odd that my addressing them does bother you. Whatever, perhaps it was a mistake to have done so. in future i will I will look the other way. Thanks for putting me straight. I stupidly thought that being blunt about it would put an end to it. I can see that won't happen. As always, those who dare to object to abuse in any form end up being looked upon as the abuser. What a strange, strange world. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 14 Jan 2001 19:30:35 EST From: FMYFL@aol.com Subject: Re: Word from MG's House of Anchovies(NJC) In a message dated 1/14/01 5:43:31 PM Eastern Standard Time, jmichaelpaz@telocity.com writes: > I look absolutely nothing like this sub human Segal. Just cause we both wear > pony tails. That's it I am chopping my hair off. > > Michael, I believe you said the same thing about cutting your hair off at > Ashara's. > Face it! No one wanted you to cut it. You're just too darn cute and butch > with that pony tail :~) ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 14 Jan 2001 18:49:07 -0800 From: Michael Paz Subject: Yeah! (NJC) I feel ya Colin. It takes all my power to NOT say something to some of the crap, but I think in the long run I am much happier and all the cream comes to the top. I love reading about Joni so much (EXCEPT when it's about her personal life) and I love hearing about all my lister friends personal postings and such, but the crap does tend to get out of control so often. Michael NP-Wooden Ships-Jefferson Airplane on 1/14/01 4:41 PM, catman at colin@tantra.fsbusiness.co.uk wrote: > > i really meant it when i thanked for you writing. My anger toward Marcel was > overflowing > onto you and it has now gone. > I respect you aim for peace, not just in this, but in other things you have > written, but > sometimes 'peace at any cost' is not right. Sometimes people have to have > things pointed > out to them. i tried all the usual civil routes. In this case, maybe I should > have ignored > it but it felt wrong to do so. > take care > bw > colin ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 14 Jan 2001 18:54:15 -0800 From: Michael Paz Subject: Interesting Items on Ebay The following are excerpts from private emails sent to me by Rosalita (constantly on the lookout for all things Joni) I went to the site and check it out and noticed that the pick gurad is NOT screwed into the guitar. I wrote her back and told her I smelled a rat. The master sleuth herselff went back on the prowl and came up with one signed by Whitney Houston. Looks like the same guitar with interchangeable pick guards. I still can't figure out what the whole scam is. My thoughts are he is copying the signitures and imprinting them on pickguards and selling cheap ass guitars for too much money. WHY THE HELL would Whitney sign a strat anyways?? Anyways buyers beware. I got a very similar guitar recently for a fellow jmdl member and it was half this price (retail). Ebay continues to worry me. Best Michael NP-Why Spring Ain't Here-Michael Franks Title of item: JONI MITCHELL Autographed RED Guitar & PROOF Seller: www.autographpros.com Starts: Jan-11-01 20:13:12 PST Ends: Jan-21-01 20:13:12 PST Price: Starts at $275.00 To bid on the item, go to: http://cgi.ebay.com/aw-cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=1403738405 100's OF OUR ITEMS COME WITH PHOTOS OF THE INDIVIDUALS SIGNING.....Please visit our website at www.AutographPros.com JONI MITCHELL Autographed RED Guitar & PROOF This is a brand new, never been played "Torino Red" Fender Strat Squier guitar, hand signed IN PERSON by the above mentioned! I will even include a copy of the photo of her in her limo just after signing, which will be put on the back of our COA! This comes with a CERTIFICATE OF AUTHENTICITY (COA) from us, Autograph Pros, as well as a written lifetime guarantee that this is an authentic autograph. This guitar itself, without the autograph has a retail value of $249! I can tell you, we are one of the fastest shippers on ebay, so count on a very fast turn around time! A LITTLE ABOUT THE GUITARThis is a Full size Torino Red Fender Strat Squier. It has a comfortable 21-fret maple neck with fast-action rose-wood fingerboards and chrome covered tuners. It features three single-coil pickups, a standard tremelo and five-way switching! The guitar itself is a nice looking guitar, but autographed, well, it is extraordinary! IF YOU WOULD LIKE TO VIEW ALL OF OUR ITEMS AS THUMBNAILS, SO YOU CAN SEE ALL THE PHOTOS YOU MAY WANT TO BID ON, CLICK THE "AUCTIVA SHOWCASE" BUTTON AT THE BOTTOM OF THIS PAGE. Bidders on multiple items will be given a discount!!!WE ARE MEMBERS OF UACC {Universal Autograph Collectors Club}. PLEASE VISIT OUR WEBSITE BY CLICKING HERE------ AUTOGRAPH PROS After you are done bidding on this great item, PLEASE CLICK HERE TO SEE MY OTHER INCREDIBLE ITEMS ON eBay! MOST OF OUR ITEMS START WITH A $0.99 MINIMUM BID!!!! BY CLICKING THE ABOVE LINK, IT WILL DISPLAY ALL OF OUR ITEMS ON ONE PAGE! As we are located in Connecticut, we gladly will ship overseas, as well as to Canada, however, they will require a slightly higher shipping charge. Please click the link above, and save it to your favorite places for future auction items! Please visit our PHOTO GALLERY on our WEBPAGE!!! NO RESERVE Buyer to pay $20.00 for shipping and handling. Insurance of $5.00 should also be included if desired. Click here to view my other auctions. on 1/14/01 1:37 PM, rosemjoy@aol.com at rosemjoy@aol.com wrote: > Oh gee and Whitney Houston signed the same guitar. This guy is a frawd and > should be reported as such. > > Rose > > Title of item: WHITNEY HOUSTON Autographed Red Guitar &PROOF > Seller: www.autographpros.com > Starts: Jan-11-01 20:10:06 PST > Ends: Jan-21-01 20:10:06 PST > Price: Starts at $225.00 > To bid on the item, go > to: http://cgi.ebay.com/aw-cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=1403737472 > > > Item Description: > > 100's OF OUR ITEMS COME WITH PHOTOS OF THE INDIVIDUALS SIGNING.....Please > visit our website at www.AutographPros.com WHITNEY HOUSTON Autographed Red > Guitar &PROOF > This is a brand new, never been played "Torino Red" Fender Strat Squier > guitar, hand signed IN PERSON by the above mentioned! I will even include a > copy of the photo of her signing, which will be put on the back of our COA! > This comes with a CERTIFICATE OF AUTHENTICITY (COA) from us, Autograph Pros, > as well as a written lifetime guarantee that this is an authentic autograph. > This guitar itself, without the autograph has a retail value of $249! I can > tell you, we are one of the fastest shippers > on ebay, so count on a very fast turn around time! A LITTLE ABOUT THE > GUITARThis is a Full size Torino Red Fender Strat Squier. It has a > comfortable 21-fret maple neck with fast-action rose-wood fingerboards and > chrome covered tuners. It features three single-coil pickups, a standard > tremelo and five-way switching! The guitar itself is a nice looking guitar, > but autographed, well, it is extraordinary! IF YOU WOULD LIKE TO VIEW ALL > OF OUR ITEMS AS THUMBNAILS, SO YOU CAN SEE ALL THE PHOTOS YOU MAY WANT TO BID > ON, CLICK THE "AUCTIVA SHOWCASE" BUTTON AT THE BOTTOM OF THIS PAGE. Bidders > on multiple items will be given a discount!!!WE ARE MEMBERS OF > UACC {Universal Autograph Collectors Club}. > PLEASE VISIT OUR WEBSITE BY CLICKING HERE------ AUTOGRAPH PROS > After you are done bidding on this great item, PLEASE CLICK HERE TO SEE MY > OTHER INCREDIBLE ITEMS ON eBay! MOST OF OUR ITEMS START WITH A $0.99 MINIMUM > BID!!!! BY CLICKING THE ABOVE LINK, IT WILL DISPLAY ALL OF OUR ITEMS ON ONE > PAGE! As we are located > in Connecticut, we gladly will ship > overseas, as well as to Canada, however, they will require a slightly higher > shipping charge. Please > click the link above, and save it to your favorite places for future auction > items! > Please visit our PHOTO GALLERY on our WEBPAGE!!! > > > > > NO RESERVE > Buyer to pay $20.00 for shipping and handling. Insurance of $5.00 should also > be included if desired. > Click here to view my other auctions. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 14 Jan 2001 19:55:44 EST From: SCJoniGuy@aol.com Subject: Re: HOSL & Judy's Chelsea Morning << The one we're looking for is from the 1968 "Who Knows Where the Time Goes" sessions, and is on Elektra EK-45657. >> Great info, Paul! I just may have to make you my research assistant! :~) And Michael, yes I'm a tease, but I always deliver the goods, don't I? ;~) Bob ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 14 Jan 2001 18:57:41 -0800 From: Michael Paz Subject: This final thing (NJC) on 1/14/01 4:33 PM, catman at colin@tantra.fsbusiness.co.uk wrote: > I find it odd that you should write to me publicly, telling me off for telling > someone off > publicly. I haven't seen any posts from you addressing those abusive posts > either. Maybe > it doesn't bother you. I find it odd that my addressing them does bother you. This is the last thing I am gonna say about this, but you are right I peerhaps should have done this with you private, but maybe MORE people will benefit from my faux pas. My only answer is that your post was short so I read it. Most of the REALLY long stuff I avoid (esp. when it's politics) and therefore I am not hip to what is being said. I apologise for MY rudeness, but TRULY would love to see more harmony in this space. Later Michael NP-Crash-DMB ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 14 Jan 2001 20:02:20 -0500 From: "Jim L'Hommedieu" Subject: RE: Jungle Line, ~~ an essay, very long, 99.5% Joni MitchellContent!! Is a "gentleman's club" a euphemism for a straight strip club or a gay club? I wanna know where to spend my money. (Ha! Not! I'm a home body. No discos for me either. I'd rather hang on the back porch with the other house guests, drinking with all the porch lighs left .... OFF talking quietly till late, late, late. :) They know who they are. As Julzie used to say, "MMMMMwah!" Or was that Joan Rivers?) :) Still, I would like to see Beth Patterson and Jason Marsalis play in clubs next time I'm in town. I have to sit on the floor in Preservation Hall just once. Just to say I've done it. And the Ryman Theatre and the Cavern (speaking of downstairs dives). And another fan-damn-tastic dinner in the French Quarter. And.... Anyway, this thread about downstairs dives reminds me of the last time I was in a jazz club here in Cincinati called "The Blue Wisp Jazz Club" watching the big band on Wednesday night with my father. We were in a booth for a change and I noticed that someone had thrown a drink at the wall and it was allowed to run-run-run down the wall and dry there. That didn't surprise me completely. Upon closer examination though, I realised that the staff had hung a picture on the drink-smeared wall, right over the trickle traces. **THAT** is a dive my friend. Lama np: Neil Young's "Silver & Gold" video on the big stereo as I disassemble my *man-made* tree. Wouldn't Ralph Waldo Emerson just turn over in his grave? > -----Original Message----- > From: Michael Paz [mailto:jmichaelpaz@telocity.com] > Sounds like and urban scene to me. Very similar to one of those sleazy all > night bars in the quarter with the drag queen rock n roll bands. Didn't we > have to drag you out of there Jim?? > > Also reminds me of one night after a dinner with Joni at Maximo's. We were > waiting for her to show at a party at the home of our mutual friend Lucy. > Joni came to the door ( I think with Gloria an old road mgr of hers ) and > announced she would be back later cause she was gonna go to a gentlemans > club to do some research. This would have been around the time of > TTT. Sorry > I digress into a bit of my Joni past. > > > Paz ------------------------------ End of JMDL Digest V2001 #24 **************************** ------- Post messages to the list by clicking here: mailto:joni@smoe.org Unsubscribe by clicking here: mailto:joni-digest-request@smoe.org?body=unsubscribe ------- Siquomb, isn't she?