From: les@jmdl.com (JMDL Digest) To: joni-digest@smoe.org Subject: JMDL Digest V2001 #18 Reply-To: joni@smoe.org Sender: les@jmdl.com Errors-To: les@jmdl.com Precedence: bulk Unsubscribe: mailto:joni-digest-request@smoe.org?body=unsubscribe Archives: http://www.smoe.org/lists/joni Websites: http://www.jmdl.com http://www.jonimitchell.com JMDL Digest Saturday, January 13 2001 Volume 2001 : Number 018 The 'Official' Joni Mitchell Homepage, created by Wally Breese, can be found at http://www.jonimitchell.com. It contains the latest news, a detailed bio, Original Interviews, essays, lyrics and much much more. The JMDL website can be found at http://www.jmdl.com and contains interviews, articles, the member gallery, archives, and much more. ========== TOPICS and authors in this Digest: -------- Shawn NJC ["Christopher J. Treacy" ] Re: Colvin's "Steady On", NJC [Anne Sandstrom ] Re: Colvin's "Steady On", NJC ["Bill Pearson" ] Re: washington DC jonifest? (njc) ["Lori R. Fye" ] Your prayers njc ["Kate Bennett" ] Re: Politics and religion (NJC) [Siresorrow@aol.com] shawn colvin ["Kate Bennett" ] RE: Politics and religion (NJC) ["Lori R. Fye" ] a virtual card for you [catman ] Re: Politics and religion(long) (NJC) [catman ] Re: Politics and religion (NJC) [catman ] What do you think "Ginger" Is? (NJC) ["C.A. Starkey" ] Re: Politics and religion (NJC) ["Victor Johnson" ] Re: JMDL Digest V2001 #16-njc [Siresorrow@aol.com] Re: Politics and religion (NJC) [Siresorrow@aol.com] Lovecraft NJC ["Kate Bennett" ] Re: Politics and religion (NJC) [jan gyn ] Re: What do you think "Ginger" Is? (NJC) [Murphycopy@aol.com] CHAKA ["Dave and Beth Fairall" ] Joni on egreetings [Rosemjoy@aol.com] Re: Random thoughts on MagicNJC [catman ] Re: Politics and religion (NJC) [catman ] Re: Politics and religion (NJC) [catman ] RE: Joni on egreetings ["Wally Kairuz" ] Singing Willy [jonifan@clearsong.com] Re: Joni on egreetings [RoseMJoy@aol.com] Re: Reagan and the Apocalypse (NJC) (md) [Vince Lavieri ] Fwd: Help Cat Stevens get into the Rock n Roll Hall Of Fame!!NJC [RoseMJo] Re: Politics and religion (long) (NJC) [Vince Lavieri ] NJC Joni and the Church [Vince Lavieri ] Joni's Presidential Performance ? now njc [evian ] lyrics, ac/dc, ramirez njc [evian ] Re: CHAKA & How to get Vol. 13 [SCJoniGuy@aol.com] Re: Singing Willy [SCJoniGuy@aol.com] Green, Kirwan, and Spencer njc [evian ] Re: Politics and religion (long) (NJC) [MDESTE1@aol.com] Jungle Line [TanyerSCO@aol.com] ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Fri, 12 Jan 2001 13:58:09 -0500 From: "Christopher J. Treacy" Subject: Shawn NJC Shawn's new CD is due out in the next 2 mos. or so; it's apparently already in the can, and she's been playing select live shows here and there, probably testing out the new material. Check out www.shawncolvin.com for more info, plus there's a bulletin board as well. - -Chris ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 12 Jan 2001 14:07:56 -0500 From: Anne Sandstrom Subject: Re: Colvin's "Steady On", NJC Sorry if I'm repeating this - after a while I forget what I've posted in the past. Shawn is absolutely fantastic live. I've probably seen her 20 times at least. Maybe more. I used to go to Passim (well known folk club that was originally Club 47 - and Joni did play there too) to see her. This was years before her Steady On CD. I do have old live versions of everything on that CD. In fact, she premiered the song Steady On at a songwriter's workshop at the Newport Folk Festival. The few of us in the audience were blown away. (Meanwhile all these hordes of people were just walking by to get into the seating area.) I did get to meet her briefly there. I'd been introduced to her at Passim about a year before too. She seemed very shy. If you read the liner notes of Steady On, you'll see that she mentions WERS and Mary Carbone. Mary and Bob and Rae Ann Donlon were really instrumental in launching her career, I think. Mary and I were friends, but I've lost track of her. She was a DJ at WERS and was the one responsible for my fleeting and limited 'fame.' lots of love Anne ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 12 Jan 2001 19:21:30 -0000 From: "Bill Pearson" Subject: Re: Colvin's "Steady On", NJC > << S. Colvin's last album wasn't too shabby either. One of my favorite > plays right now. (on CD of course) Great song writer. >> > > Isn't Shawn sorta overdue for a new release? Anybody have any scoop on that? > > Bob Finished and ready to go !!! Should've been Jan, last I heard was March. With the working title of 'Kill The Messenger', yeah you do know the title, it is a track on Fat City - odd! In the meantime has any US lister got the new Shawn Mullins CD yet? We have another 6 weeks to go in the UK but I believe it's already out in the US and not only features the very wonderful Shawn Colvin, but also Shelby Lynne. Oh go on, one of you must have it - reviews please Bill ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 12 Jan 2001 11:39:47 -0800 (PST) From: "Lori R. Fye" Subject: Re: washington DC jonifest? (njc) Deb wrote: > Are any listers planning to attend the inaugaration > day protests next week? > My husband and I will be in Dupont Circle with the > Voter March people, calling for electoral reforms. You know, Deb, I didn't even realize this was going to happen! Sounds like a great plan, and I would love to meet you there. Anyone else want to join (I almost typed "joni") us? Lori in DC . Yahoo! Photos - Share your holiday photos online! http://photos.yahoo.com/ ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 12 Jan 2001 11:20:22 -0800 From: "Kate Bennett" Subject: Your prayers njc Thank you to all who sent their prayers & kind words regarding Barry. It is most appreciated. No news yet. ******************************************** Kate Bennett sponsored by Polysonics www.polysonics.com hear the music at: www.taylorguitars.com/artists/awp/indies/ www.katebennett.com www.cdbaby.com/katebennett www.amazon.com ******************************************** ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 12 Jan 2001 14:50:41 EST From: Siresorrow@aol.com Subject: Re: Politics and religion (NJC) In a message dated 1/12/01 11:06:21 AM Eastern Standard Time, colin@tantra.fsbusiness.co.uk writes: << I can't comment on what Clark meant. >> agreed. i can say though, if i posted the same sentence as clark: "That Bush believes in the myth of Jesus makes me completely distrust him as it shows his susceptibility to magical thinking. " and changed the word jesus to homosexuality, holy hell would have broken out on this list. is it right to judge someone because of their religion any more than their sexuality? is that not what's being done in this sentence? deeper issuse of abortion and choice i would think we could never find comonality across a group like this. hell, we can't even agree if a boom boom pachyderm is schlong or drum solo. ( personally, on that one, since i've seen the poem penolope, and her longing for metamorphic cocks, i will always believe a boom boom is a schlong ) so i'm hoping this stuff ends soon. i was relieved when the election stuff died down and now it's come back in a new form. i am a christian. i've felt the warmth of god's hands around my heart. i don't think that makes me given to myth, magic, or distrust. and i admire dubya's humility to be able to admit he had a drinking problem, go to god with it, and beat it. patrick np. paula cole - carmen ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 12 Jan 2001 11:30:27 -0800 From: "Kate Bennett" Subject: shawn colvin I have all her music, have seen her almost every time she has played in the area. The first time I heard her was one of the most amazing experiences. I had never heard or heard of her but read an article in the local paper about this songwriter who cited Joni as an influence. This was in the days when it seemed everyone had forgotten about Joni. So I went down to hear her based on that information. We all sat around on the floor of what was normally a disco kind of place. Knee to knee people. She came out solo & sang her songs. You could have heard a pin drop. It was absolutely stunning. Her voice, her guitar playing. Her lyric & melody & rhythm. She didn't say a word, just played. This was just before her first cd came out I believe. I wanted to tell her how incredible her show was but she just disappeared afterwards. I am sure some of you in NY must have seen her in her early days there playing clubs? Anyway, she has a new album coming out in March or April I believe. One of my favorite albums of hers is Fat City. Its one that got the least attention I think. I have noticed, from time to time, really cool lyrical references obviously influenced by Joni. I wish I had written them down because specific examples aren't coming to mind right now. But she has done it really cleverly. I will try & remember & post when they come to mind. As a songwriter, my biggest inspirations are Joni & Shawn for me. And Emmylou (more as a performer, though one of my favorite songs ever written is one she co-wrote, Boulder to Birmingham. I am really enjoying Red Dirt Girl too.) ******************************************** Kate Bennett sponsored by Polysonics www.polysonics.com hear the music at: www.taylorguitars.com/artists/awp/indies/ www.katebennett.com www.cdbaby.com/katebennett www.amazon.com ******************************************** ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 12 Jan 2001 12:02:03 -0800 (PST) From: "Lori R. Fye" Subject: RE: Politics and religion (NJC) Deb wrote: > There's no question that Watt's fundamentalism > affected his stand on issues. I used to work with a woman who was "born again," and she would get SO ANGRY with the school her sons attended for encouraging them to recycle. In her view, God made the world for us to trash. Besides, the Rapture was coming any day, so why take care of things now? Yuk. Lori in DC . Yahoo! Photos - Share your holiday photos online! http://photos.yahoo.com/ ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 12 Jan 2001 20:41:10 +0000 From: catman Subject: a virtual card for you This might be a hoax and I considered not alerting you but then thought I would anyway. If you recieve an email headed A Virtual Card For You delete it unopened. It is a new and deadly virus. So I have read elsewhere. - -- bw colin colin@tantra.fsbusiness.co.uk http://www.geocities.com/tantra_apso/index.html ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 12 Jan 2001 20:57:17 +0000 From: catman Subject: Re: Politics and religion(long) (NJC) Hi Victor-I understand that you had a liberal experience of Xtianity but of all the various sects of it(apart from Jehovah's Witnesses), (there may be others I don't know about)the belief in Jesus' death as a sacrifice to God and as a payment for our sins is central to it. If it isn't it isn't Xtianity. Getting to 'heaven' is about believing that.It is a core belief of Xtians. IF Xtians did indeed think the way you do, in the majority, the world would be a very different place. There are millions who think the way Reagan is supposed to think. Your remarks about what I said regarding Jesus' suffering are warranted, of course. I did not explain myself properly. No, suffering is suffering. However, I do consider the suffering of chuildren to be the most damaging, not just to the children, but to the rest of us. The Xtians I know and grew with all hold up Jesus' suffering as something above and beyond human suffering. that i object to. Noit least becausae he was a human. Also he was well loved and cared for growing up. And, I think importantly, he CHOSE his suffering. As adults do every day when they decide to stand up for what is right. This suffering is NOT the same as those people, especially children, who suffer. To me magical thinking is believing that one can escape the consequences of ones actions. This is how I understand it is used in a psychological sense. I don't disagree with your understanding of that word and agree that the world would be most sad if we didn't have magical dreams and imagination in the way I take you to mean. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 12 Jan 2001 15:49:52 -0500 From: "cassy" Subject: Reply from Bravo re: "Arts & Minds" This is the reply I got to my query to Bravo about the Joni episode of "Arts & Minds." Thanks for contacting Bravo. This was episode #104 and is not scheduled to air again at this time. Again, thanks for your interest in Bravo. >>> "cassy" 12/29/00 09:00AM >>> On the afternoon of Thursday December 28th, 2000 a show was aired called "Arts & Minds." A friend told me this particular episode showed a segment about Joni Mitchell's art exhibit in Saskatchewan, Canada but I missed seeing it. Will this particular show be broadcast again in the near future? I have searched the web site but have been unable to find any reference to it. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 12 Jan 2001 21:09:38 +0000 From: catman Subject: Re: Politics and religion (NJC) Siresorrow@aol.com wrote: > In a message dated 1/12/01 11:06:21 AM Eastern Standard Time, > colin@tantra.fsbusiness.co.uk writes: > > << I can't comment on what Clark meant. >> > > agreed. i can say though, if i posted the same sentence as clark: > > "That Bush believes in the myth of Jesus makes me completely distrust him as > it > shows his susceptibility to magical thinking. " > > and changed the word jesus to homosexuality, if he had use the word homesexuality instead the sentence would not make sense. there is no myth of homsexuality to believe in. > holy hell would have broken out > on this list. is it right to judge someone because of their religion any > more than their sexuality? is that not what's being done in this sentence? Soemone's sexuality is not a choice. Someone's beliefs are a choice. And yes, it is right to judge a person on their beliefs.(tho not condemn) > > > deeper issuse of abortion and choice i would think we could never find > comonality across a group like this. correct. but as a man especially, but certainly not being the woman who is pregant, it isn't my business anyway. Like I said, only the pregnant woman has the right to decide. No one else. > > > i am a christian. i've felt the warmth of god's hands around my heart. i > don't think that makes me given to myth, magic, or distrust. I think you misunderstood and took it personally when it wasn't meant to be. I know you and your faith and you know me and mine. Faith is very important to us both. I wouldn't be here if God had not intervened. I would think, but cannot be sure, that Clark would find my belief system just as 'magical'. I understand the thinking that goes along with certain brands of belief and I DO distrust people who hold them. You are NOT one them.(Unless you have been lying to me!!!) > and i admire > dubya's humility to be able to admit he had a drinking problem, go to god > with it, and beat it. generally speaking, yes it is admirable in people if it is genuine. There is nothing wrong with these discussions, nor any reason to get uptight, unless people start hurling insults or get patronaising etc. take care colin > > patrick > np. paula cole - carmen - -- bw colin colin@tantra.fsbusiness.co.uk http://www.geocities.com/tantra_apso/index.html ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 11 Jan 2001 14:19:18 -0500 From: "C.A. Starkey" Subject: What do you think "Ginger" Is? (NJC) What could "Ginger" possibly be? Carol ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 12 Jan 2001 12:58:17 -0800 From: "Kate Bennett" Subject: Random thoughts on Magic Thanks to all of you posting on this thread, all contain much wisdom & food for thought... Here are some of my thoughts: Well. I have been into magic my whole life. Believing in it I mean. I guess I am both a magical thinker & a realist. The funny thing is I feel the two are related. For me magic IS real. Believing & dreaming has brought things into being for me. I believe in a higher power, god, spirit which has often gotten me through times that I don't know if I could have survived. I have found that cultivating gratitude often leads me to faith. And vice versa. But it would be remiss of me not to acknowledge my upbringing, specifically my Mom for this. She believed in god & prayer & angels. Though hers was more of an established religion than mine has ever been, it was she who planted the seeds of faith in me. And she lived her life accordingly, as a kind & giving person. For me, prayer often works, not always how you want it to, but sometimes even better than you could imagine. And if it helps anyone overcome adversity, inner or outer, then I don't care if someone calls their higher power jesus or god or dog. It doesn't matter to me what belief a person subscribes too- that is a very personal matter. I don't care if they do or don't believe in a higher power. To me what is important is how they live their lives & how they treat others. My belief is that we are all spiritual beings, just as we are emotional, intellectual, and physical beings. A lot of bad has been done in the name of god so I can understand people being turned off by religion. I love & am inspired by many of Jesus's teachings, as well as Buddha, Lao Tsu, & many others. Thoreau, Emerson, lots & lots more. So I could never limit myself to being just one thing. There is so much of wisdom & inspiration to be found out there. Sometimes it appears everywhere, sometimes it is hard to find. I have no respect for any belief that says it is the only way or tries to reform others. I get really uncomfortable listening to preachers or ministers or new age spiritual teachers who exude an attitude as if they have some special connection with god or knowledge which they are imparting to those who they presume to be, what, less connected or knowledgeable? My view on it all is that people teach what they need to learn. And that we all have our own connection & do not need anyone to interpret anything for us (and that goes back to what jesus taught!). I could never call my self a christian (though part of it is in me) primarily because of what has been done to indigenous cultures throughout history in the name of christianity. Arrogant & destructive. Complete opposite of what jesus was talking about in my opinion. I love myths & fairytales because there is a lot of wisdom to be found there- you know all that Joseph Campbell stuff, I love it. Living close to nature & to young children are the key to me, for staying in touch with the magic of life. And the most powerful magic to me? Music! Where does it come from? Out of thin air into sounds & rhythms & bringing up emotions & going deep into our souls! Who knows what exists beyond this earth. I do believe in heaven but I don't know what it is like, nor am I anxious to find out. Maybe to those otherworldly heaven dwellers, earth is heaven. Here we have trees & animals & we can touch & taste & laugh & cry & love & smell, etc etc. Okay, that's enough rambling for now... ******************************************** Kate Bennett sponsored by Polysonics www.polysonics.com hear the music at: www.taylorguitars.com/artists/awp/indies/ www.katebennett.com www.cdbaby.com/katebennett www.amazon.com ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 12 Jan 2001 16:34:02 -0500 From: "Victor Johnson" Subject: Re: Politics and religion (NJC) > Hi Victor-I understand that you had a liberal experience of Xtianity but of all the > various sects of it(apart from Jehovah's Witnesses), (there may be others I don't know > about)the belief in Jesus' death as a sacrifice to God and as a payment for our sins is > central to it. Agreed. I recently went to a Methodist church and was really turned off by the sermon, in which the preacher brought up the topic of the death of Jesus(surprise, surprise...) and then alluded to a little story about a woman whose betrothed was about to be executed at the sound of the bell. When they tried ringing the bell it wouldn't ring so they went up and they found her bloody, battered body, wrapped around the bell. Of this he gave graphic detail, which I found unappropriate and seemingly manipulative. I didn't mention it earlier, but I spent several years going to unprogrammed Quaker meetings while in college, which were very liberal and while there are some core beliefs, particularly in non-violence and conflict/resolution, the belief structure is otherwise very open. There is no quoting of scripture, no leader, and basically anybody can share anything...a story, prayer, hymn, poem,...who ever is inspired just stands up and breaks the silence. This preoccupation with the blood of Jesus I don't really understand either and the idea that some people are "saved" and all the others are "heathen" and therefore "evil". I dated a girl several years ago who belonged to the Church of Latterday Saints and went with her to church once. After the service, I went with her to a little "bible study" group that apparently every body went to and the main thing I got from it was that all these people were so distrustful of anything that didn't follow their system of beliefs, and they kept on about what a dangerous, evil place the secular world is. It is this kind of thinking that scares me and seems to divide people instead of uniting them. Victor Johnson http://www.cdbaby.com/victorjohnson "Just beyond the morning falls the river of your dreams, Escaping from the day these wild creatures run away." Victor Johnson ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 12 Jan 2001 13:21:34 -0800 From: "Kate Bennett" Subject: Reagan and the Apocalypse (NJC) In my life, Reagan's era WAS the Apocalypse. Please, don't flame me, its just my personal experience & a joke I couldn't resist... ******************************************** Kate Bennett sponsored by Polysonics www.polysonics.com hear the music at: www.taylorguitars.com/artists/awp/indies/ www.katebennett.com www.cdbaby.com/katebennett www.amazon.com ******************************************** ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 12 Jan 2001 16:52:05 EST From: Siresorrow@aol.com Subject: Re: JMDL Digest V2001 #16-njc In a message dated 1/12/01 12:39:54 PM Eastern Standard Time, LuvnMyWrld@aol.com writes: << .recently started the dyer---with the cat in it......Thought the thumping sound was my husband's tennis shoes...started the wash....thoughts went to the time of year December....put the soap in the washer...My husband wouldn't wash his tennis shoes.....ever....and certainly not in DECEMBER....OH my Gosh....I just freaked....she was ok.. >> holy jesus kelly, i did this too. but i really complained when we got this cat and then later i started to love the cat and now i think the cat is the coolest one in the house and has made me start hating the dogs in comparison. and i was trying to do good and moved the loads to the dryer and hit the button and REEARREAEEEE!!!! then just last night i was watching the sopranos #4,5, and 6 and lovunmywrld of mafiosa thinking about cannolis and raviolis and things i can't get her and all of a sudden all this thumping starts and i can't find it. finally i see the cabinet under the tv start moving and so i open it up and the cat pops out. poor thing must have been in there for three hours. and when he jumped out he looked up at me and said in perfect south philly...whea the fook you bin...leavin me in the dock like t'at. ok, so i made up that last part. patrick np. rayjoheyaad - ok computer ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 12 Jan 2001 17:13:05 EST From: Siresorrow@aol.com Subject: Re: Politics and religion (NJC) In a message dated 1/12/01 4:06:22 PM Eastern Standard Time, colin@tantra.fsbusiness.co.uk writes: << Soemone's sexuality is not a choice. Someone's beliefs are a choice. And yes, it is right to judge a person on their beliefs.(tho not condemn) >> how do you know for sure the difference between what is a choice and what is not? and how do you know this for other people? like...how do you know for me that my faith is a choice? cause to me it's as ingrained and natural as my sexuality. so how can you tell for me? hmm? patrick np. jonatha - i don't know what the song is called ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 12 Jan 2001 13:50:29 -0800 From: "Kate Bennett" Subject: Lovecraft NJC ooo, this is so beautiful Victor! Thanks for sharing it... i just noticed your cdbaby tag- COOL! "And in the twilight, as the stars came out one by one and the moon cast on the marsh a radiance like that which a child sees quivering on the floor as he is rocked to sleep at evening, there walked into the lethal quicksands a very old man in tattered purple, crowned with withered vine-leaves and gazing ahead as if upon the golden domes of a fair city where dreams are understood. That night something of youth and beauty died in the elder world." H.P. Lovecraft This quote is from one my favorite stories ever, "The Quest of Iranon" by H.P. Lovecraft. In the story, a young man named Iranon, travels across the country in search of a mythical city of Aira, from which he believes he is from. He is a sweet youth who sings songs of beautiful things. "I am Iranon, and come from Aira, a fair city that I recall only dimly but seek to find again. I am a singer of songs that I learned in the fair city, and my calling is to make beauty with the things remembered of childhood. My wealth is in little memories and dreams, and in hopes that I sing in gardens when the moon is tender and the west wind stirs the lotus-buds." But in his travels he finds he is ignored, thought to be crazy, and just continues searching for this magical home which he never finds. Now whether it be Jesus, the magic of Joni's songs, Tolkien, muppets, shamanism, or whatever, it is dreams and magic, it is that magical childlike vision of the world wherein all the beauty lies and I would find the world a very barren and cold place indeed without this magic. I know this ounds like a far cry from politics and religion but if everybody believed in a little magic, maybe we would all be a little better off. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 12 Jan 2001 14:39:40 -0800 From: jan gyn Subject: Re: Politics and religion (NJC) (SNIP) >how do you know for sure the difference between what is a choice and what is >not? and how do you know this for other people? like...how do you know for >me that my faith is a choice? cause to me it's as ingrained and natural as >my sexuality. so how can you tell for me? hmm? >patrick >np. jonatha - i don't know what the song is called I'm pretty sure that my Agnosticism is a choice. I used to know a lot of Xtians. - -jan ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 12 Jan 2001 17:40:35 EST From: Murphycopy@aol.com Subject: Re: What do you think "Ginger" Is? (NJC) If you check out drudgereport.com right now there is a drawing in their lead story of what "Ginger" may be. (The lead story may change if any major news breaks.) Also, at http://biz.yahoo.com/rf/010112/n12623755.html there is a story about what "Ginger" -- AKA "It" -- may be. --Bob ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 12 Jan 2001 18:18:54 -0600 From: "Dave and Beth Fairall" Subject: CHAKA Just got the Chaka BET CD where she does mostly jazz tunes, including a terrific version of Man from Mars. Great interpretation, nice Rhodes piano solo, and it really serves to flesh out the absolute beauty of this tune. One of Joni's masterpieces in my humble opinion. On a related note, I'd love to get a CD copy of Covers #13, how to? And I can't resist re-printing this tidbit from The Nation. Is this Bush's idea of bipartisanship? Dave Fairall ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 12 Jan 2001 15:56:12 -0800 (PST) From: Rosemjoy@aol.com Subject: Joni on egreetings Rosemjoy@aol.com has sent you an Egreetings.com(r) flash animation! To view your card, simply click the following Web address any time over the next three weeks: http://www.egreetings.com/v/fhwMwJ54sP If you need further help, visit our Help pages at http://www.egreetings.com/pg/help - ---------------- E-greetings is a registered trademark and Egreetings is a trademark of Egreetings Network, Inc. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 13 Jan 2001 00:16:19 +0000 From: catman Subject: Re: Random thoughts on MagicNJC Kate wrote: Okay, that's enough rambling for now... not rambling at all. I could have replied to each statement you made but what would be the point. I agreed with it all! bw colin ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 13 Jan 2001 00:21:21 +0000 From: catman Subject: Re: Politics and religion (NJC) > I didn't mention it earlier, but I spent several years going to unprogrammed > Quaker meetings while in college, I have a lot of time for Quakers. I once read 'on crime and ounishment' byt them. Excellent. > I got from it was that all these people were so distrustful of > anything that didn't follow their system of beliefs, and they kept on about > what a dangerous, evil place the secular world is. It is this kind of > thinking that scares me and seems to divide people instead of uniting them. Yes. That is what I grew up with. bw colin > > > Victor Johnson > http://www.cdbaby.com/victorjohnson > > "Just beyond the morning falls the river of your dreams, > Escaping from the day these wild creatures run away." > Victor Johnson - -- bw colin colin@tantra.fsbusiness.co.uk http://www.geocities.com/tantra_apso/index.html ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 13 Jan 2001 00:31:16 +0000 From: catman Subject: Re: Politics and religion (NJC) Siresorrow@aol.com wrote: > In a message dated 1/12/01 4:06:22 PM Eastern Standard Time, > colin@tantra.fsbusiness.co.uk writes: > > << Soemone's sexuality is not a choice. Someone's beliefs are a choice. And > yes, it is right > to judge a person on their beliefs.(tho not condemn) >> > > how do you know for sure the difference between what is a choice and what is > not? and how do you know this for other people? like...how do you know for > me that my faith is a choice? cause to me it's as ingrained and natural as > my sexuality. so how can you tell for me? hmm? I am not sure if I am reading you correctly but you seem antagonised and think i am having a pop at you. Since in our private emails you know we think pretty much alike on matters of faith, I think I must be misinterpreting you. I have not suggested you are wrong in your faith. In our meails I have never seen you write anything offensive and in fact you appeared to me to be as anit fundy as I am. Have you since changed your views? I am confused. As for beliefs being a choice. They are. It isn't an opinion it is a fact. We all create meaning from the moment we are born(maybe before). We create opur meaning structures from our interpretation of our experience. For one person a moment of 'rapture' might be interpreted as being touched by the Holy Spirit, or jesus entering their heart, or an Angel touching them, or as a psychological happening or as a brain function or malfunction dpending upon the meaning structures we have created. Our beliefs are also pretty much down to what we want to believe. For someone to say they believe something because of their faith, it still means they made a choice. The faith is theirs. It wasn't put there by anything outside. That is why I am so sick of people backing up their bigotry by using their 'faith' as the excuse. If they were not bigopted in the first they would not have accpeted something that went against it. take care colin > > patrick > np. jonatha - i don't know what the song is called - -- bw colin colin@tantra.fsbusiness.co.uk http://www.geocities.com/tantra_apso/index.html ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 12 Jan 2001 21:28:42 -0300 From: "Wally Kairuz" Subject: RE: Joni on egreetings rose full of joy!!! what a beautiful gift!!!!! and welcome to the on-and-off mid-life crisis club, honey..... wallyK - -----Mensaje original----- De: owner-joni@jmdl.com [mailto:owner-joni@jmdl.com]En nombre de Rosemjoy@aol.com Enviado el: Viernes, 12 de Enero de 2001 08:56 p.m. Para: joni@smoe.org Asunto: Joni on egreetings Rosemjoy@aol.com has sent you an Egreetings.com(r) flash animation! To view your card, simply click the following Web address any time over the next three weeks: http://www.egreetings.com/v/fhwMwJ54sP If you need further help, visit our Help pages at http://www.egreetings.com/pg/help - ---------------- E-greetings is a registered trademark and Egreetings is a trademark of Egreetings Network, Inc. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 12 Jan 2001 18:32:17 -0600 From: jonifan@clearsong.com Subject: Singing Willy Bob's question has got me thinking about recording that song and the line right after the ones I quoted last time. But you're bound to lose If you let the blues Get you scared to feel. And I feel like I'm just being born JM put the downbeat and the high note on the word "feel" in "And I feel like" and I thought it made more sense to stress the word "I" because it seems like the singer is urging Willy to not be afraid to feel and then is saying because I feel wonderful - "a shiny light breaking in a storm" or YOU are scared but I(stressed) feel like this. Stressing the feel doesn't seem as clear but I wonder if JM didn't have something else in mind. _____________________________________________ Richard Isen Clearsong Records . . .because a song is like a good companion. please visit http://www.clearsong.com ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 12 Jan 2001 19:51:10 EST From: RoseMJoy@aol.com Subject: Re: Joni on egreetings You're welcome honey! There's three out there. Check em out. There's Both Sides Now, which is animated. The cigarette smokes. lol (I love it!) as well as 'Help Me' You can find other music cards from your favorite musicians. Just go to http://beatgreets.egreetings.com/beat/egrt-tab/egreetings/EGCollectionPage/EGC ollectionPage.jhtml?collectionId=7663 - -Rose in NJ ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 12 Jan 2001 20:32:12 -0500 From: Vince Lavieri Subject: Re: Reagan and the Apocalypse (NJC) (md) My astute friend Marcel - astute when he writes on music and sports :-) wrote: > Obviously the loony sometimes trumps the real. OK. Ill bite. If you cant > actually produce the source and date of this mythical nonsense about Ronald > Reagan then > lets just say this falls into the realm of your sighting of the Loch ness > Monster. I have my grandson over as I am packing for Chicago so I have no time to do anyone's research and I won't... but Reagan was very much in the fundamentalist apocalyptic mindset... get the back issues of 'Christianity Today' (a magazine I generally have little agreement with) or 'Christian Century' (I like this one much more) from January 1981 on. I am actually very stunned that anyone DIDN'T know this about Reagan - it was a major element in his philosophy and the source of much of his support from the religious right-wing. You could also check out any number of old Pat Robertson shows (700 Club) from 1981 on for this. (the Rev) Vince ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 12 Jan 2001 20:35:32 -0500 From: Vince Lavieri Subject: (NJC) Looney No matter how busy I am getting ready for Chicago, I will not pass this one up, however: MDESTE1@aol.com wrote: > Obviously the loony sometimes trumps the real. So this is why next Saturday Bush is being sworn in as President and not Gore! Thanks for making this clear, Marcel! (the Rev) Vince ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 12 Jan 2001 20:51:10 EST From: RoseMJoy@aol.com Subject: Fwd: Help Cat Stevens get into the Rock n Roll Hall Of Fame!!NJC I just wanted to forward this message. Everyone could help who is or was a Cat Steven's fan. just go to www.catstevens.com and sign the petition. Thanks for the bandwidth Rose in NJ Return-Path: Received: from rly-xb05.mx.aol.com (rly-xb05.mail.aol.com [172.20.105.106]) by air-xb01.mail.aol.com (v77.31) with ESMTP; Fri, 12 Jan 2001 20:14:46 1900 Received: from noelix.dashing.com ([208.179.69.60]) by rly-xb05.mx.aol.com (v77.27) with ESMTP; Fri, 12 Jan 2001 20:14:29 -0500 Received: (from root@localhost) by noelix.dashing.com (8.9.3/8.8.7) id RAA15798; Fri, 12 Jan 2001 17:15:32 -0800 Date: Fri, 12 Jan 2001 17:15:32 -0800 From: "CatStevens.Com" Message-Id: <200101130115.RAA15798@noelix.dashing.com> Reply-To: wemissyou@catstevens.com To: rosemjoy@aol.com Subject: Help Cat Stevens get into the Rock n Roll Hall Of Fame!! X-Mailer: Unknown (No Version) Hello rosemjoy, CatStevens.Com has begun a major campaign to get Cat Stevens inducted into the Rock 'n' Roll Hall Of Fame and YOU can help. We have a petition and are asking each and every one of you to please take two minutes to go to the website and "sign" it. Honestly it will only take a minute and just like in Florida every vote counts (but we won't have any problems with dimpled chads)! Just go to http://CatStevens.Com/ and fill out the petition form. We've just begun this and it's been amazingly successful so far. However we need at least 10,000 digital signatures to make this work and we're a long way from that. This is a real petition that will be printed and mailed to the Hall of Fame, so signing this WILL MAKE A DIFFERENCE. If you really feel as strongly about this as CatStevens.Com does then also consider forwarding this email to your friends and family members. The more Cat fans who sign, the better our chances. Thank you all very much for your time and consideration. Sincerely, Your friends at CatStevens.Com P.S. I'm sure many of you who visit the site on a daily basis have already signed the petition. If you're one of them then please consider forwarding this request on to others. Thanks! ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 12 Jan 2001 21:05:27 -0500 From: Vince Lavieri Subject: Re: Politics and religion (long) (NJC) And I am not going to pass on this either... In Victor's excellent response: Colin wrote: > By believing this, Xtians think we escape the consequences of our > thoughts and actions. his is magical thiking. And Victor replied: > Some Christians do think in this way but to imply that all Christians follow > this pattern of thought is a vast generalization and innaccurate. Right on, my brother! And Colin raised the necessary qustion: > Compare His suffering with that a girl named Anna who was beaten and > burned, starved and tied up in abath until she died of cold and malnutrion. > She was 6 years old. She suffered this abuse for years. > > people who in their fantasy think Jesus' suffering was anything like this, > have no clue what suffering is. What about the Jews in the camps? What about > thstarving in Afirca? What about the millions of children starved, beaten, > raped, killed everyday in this world? > William Styron, in his book, 'Sophie's Choice,' which is centered on the Holocaust, asks the question, in relation to the Holocaust, "Where was God?" And Stron responds to his own question with another question, "Where was man?" "Where was man" may be phrased in a gender-exclusive way, but that is *the* question. We should quit blaming God for what we do. We should quit blaming God for what humans do. Blaming God is the ultimate irresponsibility... practiced by people of faith and people who question faith and people who mock faith. The story is told from one of the death camps that a teen age boy was hung by the Nazi's with piano wire instead of rope to make his suffering and death more terrible. The death camp inmates were as always forced to watch. One cried out, "where is God?' Another inmate pointed to the dying and suffering victim and said, "There is God." God is found in those who suffer, not in those who inflict suffering. That is the point of the Crucifixion. As Christianity is a child of Judiasm, the parent of that concept is Israel as the suffering servant in Isaiah 40-55 and elsewhere in the books of the prophets. Other faith systems will teach similarly, so I am not saying at all that Christianity is superior. I am saying that God, by whatever term we use for God, is found in those who suffer, not in those who inflict suffering. (the Rev) Vince (By the way, if the incoming administration succeeds in its plans to drill for oil and despoil the Alaskan wilderness - for the sake of more fossil fuel for human cars, electricity to run our computers, our little toys and entertainments, etc, we could ask: who created the beauty? Who ruined the beauty, and why? This is just a little illustration of the question in all things: where are we? Where are we? ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 12 Jan 2001 18:20:05 -0800 From: Randy Remote Subject: Re: Politics and religion (NJC) Kakki wrote: > Randy and Clark, > > Where do you come up with this stuff?? I've seriously never heard anything > remotely like this. > > > Funny, I was just thinking about that this morning. Reagan believed > > he was going to be presiding over the apocalypse, which would be > > global nuclear war. James Watt was convinced of the same. > > Religious fanaticism combined with the awesome powers of > > the upper government is a wee bit dangerous. I thought it was pretty well known. I will look for some documentation. In the meantime, a couple of other interesting Reagan stories I did not make up. 1. After his presidency, when Reagan bought his home in Bel-Air, the street address of his new home was 666. He successfully petitioned the city to have it changed to 668. 2. As Clark mentioned, Ron and particularly Nancy consulted a San Francisco astrologer before their every move. And Reagan's every move, (coincidentally?) seemed perfectly timed. He was known as the 'teflon president' because nothing could stick to him dispite well documented criminal activity such as the October surprise and the Iran Contra guns-for-drugs situation. Imagine the horror his right wing religious friends would have felt knowing he was using a tool of the devil! RR ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 12 Jan 2001 21:35:07 -0500 From: Vince Lavieri Subject: NJC Joni and the Church Joni has been with us, what, 56-57 years? Is there ONE way in which all us us fans of Joni think? I think the diversity of viewpoints within Joni's fan-base is amazing. We are a diverse group with many, many differing ways of thinking. Jesus Christ and the Church have been with us for a little less than 2,000 years. The diversity of ways of thinking in Christianity is amazing. We are a diverse group with many, many differing ways of thinking. So I get a bit annoyed when someone says what "all Christians" think or what "all Christians" believe, especially when the beliefs cited are usually the dead opposite of mine. Colin, buddy, the experience you and with Christianity and the Church may have been horrid and I am sure that it was, in fact, I know ot was. Jan Gyn's agnosticism is undoubtedly the most rational choice to made from the experiences that she has; I support the validity of her beliefs based on her experience. But every time I see a statement about what "all" Christians believe or what "all" Christian theology says, I have to raise the fact that there is no one Christian belief system. Even why Jesus died on the cross is a subject of much divergent thinking, much diversity of theology, much differing understandings. There is no "one" way that "all" Christians believe. I wish for everyone who has had negative experiences with Christians and the Church, I wish that weren't so. If we could just get rid of the humans who sin, we might have a good thing going (I say in a certain tongue in cheek mode)... but we can't, so we struggle on. I am no apologist for the Church, which in history has done much wrong -- but that was some Christians in some times and in some places, not all of us. Others have died trying to prevent those wrongs, trying to witness to love, trying to help others. I hope when all is said and done, I will be countered amongst the latter category. (the Rev) Vince ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 12 Jan 2001 22:20:47 -0600 From: evian Subject: Joni's Presidential Performance ? now njc > Wouldn't it be more appropriate to ask whether she has ever been invited to > sing before Canada's prime minister? She is a Canadian, after all. > > Unlike those crazy Americans Mick Fleetwood, John McVie, and Christine McVie ;) Seriously, I don't think we HAVE any kind of big hooha when there is a new Prime Minister -- or at least, one that gets any attention, or any "big name" people. Sadly, we don't seem to pay any attention to our "Stars" until they go south. Evian ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 12 Jan 2001 22:23:26 -0600 From: evian Subject: lyrics, ac/dc, ramirez njc > Richard Ramirez for one > (LA's Night-Stalker), who was a big fan of AC/DC's "satanic" lyrics. > > Just curious -- wasn' it just that Ramirez's AC/DC hat was left at a crime scene and that is what the press made a big deal out of? And all this may be answered since I am responding to last night's digest... oh, one of these days I will get the nerve to go "Real time!" Evian ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 12 Jan 2001 23:26:55 EST From: SCJoniGuy@aol.com Subject: Re: CHAKA & How to get Vol. 13 << On a related note, I'd love to get a CD copy of Covers #13, how to? >> Thanks for the interest, Dave...I can't surprise you with the Chaka track as you've already experienced the awesome-ness of it, but there are still many great suprises in store for you with this Volume. Here's how you get it (this goes for anybody in the US as well): 1. Send me a blank CD (has to be a MUSIC CD) and return postage. If you want other volumes besides #13, just send as many discs as you want volumes, plus appropriate postage. 2. If you don't want to get blank media, or are not sure what to get, you can just send $5 and that will cover all costs. If you want more than 1 volume, just send $3 each as the postage costs decrease. 3. Either way, please include a note telling me what you want. I can turn them around same day most of the time. My address is: Bob Muller 309 West Prentiss Ave. Greenville, SC 29605 If you still have questions, let me know. Take me up on it. Don't live a life of regret and deprivation! :~) Bob ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 12 Jan 2001 23:30:56 EST From: SCJoniGuy@aol.com Subject: Re: Singing Willy << Stressing the feel doesn't seem as clear but I wonder if JM didn't have something else in mind. >> Well, she wrote it for Graham, so maybe it was dependent on what was going on with them at the time. But like you say those nuances can make a world of difference. And I also heard it this week as a medley with River...very powerful combination as she opens with River, segues to Willy, then returns to River and closes it... Bob ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 12 Jan 2001 22:26:27 -0600 From: evian Subject: Green, Kirwan, and Spencer njc Ok, on a posting roll, forgive me... however, since we've been sort of mentioning Peter Green, I thought it was a coincidence since I am reading Fleetwood's bio again in bed, and can someone refresh me as to who out of Green, Spencer, and Kirwan, is still alive? I thought I heard that Kirwan died, but what about the other two? And what sort of "condition" are they in? And hey, where on earth has Bob Welsh been? Evian About to play "Mystery to Me" since I've got this hankerin' to hear "Hypnotized" ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 13 Jan 2001 00:03:48 EST From: MDESTE1@aol.com Subject: Re: Politics and religion (long) (NJC) In a message dated 1/12/01 6:01:52 PM Pacific Standard Time, revrvl@pathwaynet.com writes: << By believing this, Xtians think we escape the consequences of our > thoughts and actions. >> This explains two things. (1) Bill Clinton (2) What he was actually doing in those photo ops holding a bible then going home to bonk Lewinsky.....on Easter Sunday. Its really hard to keep from laughing. marcel ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 13 Jan 2001 00:07:13 EST From: TanyerSCO@aol.com Subject: Jungle Line I've just returned from a tour and am about to go out again next week, but I'm looking forward to free time with my guitar and Joni albums. So I won't be on the list for a while again. But I had a thought I'd like to share. You know, I've been a Joni fan since college, about 7 years now. I started with Blue and then went from STAS in order up to DJRD, which I just got. I've played all of the in betweens to death, going through phases with each one and they come around again and again. But I've never been able to get into HOSL and I can't figure out why. Tonight I listened to it again and I loved everything I heard and asked myself why i've been ignoring this album. I think it's because of Jungle Line. I just can't make it through Jungle Line. It's just so different from anything she did before it, I think it's just not speaking to me and I'm not getting it. The rest of the album, I get - - beautiful. It's funny because when I first heard Hejira I thought it was the wierdest thing Joni had ever done - now I get it, it speaks to me and I love it. Will the same thing happen with Jungle Line? I can't believe I've completely skipped this wonderful album because of the second track, but I think it's what happened. Has anyone else had this sort of experience? : ) Tanya in NYC (at least for another week) ------------------------------ End of JMDL Digest V2001 #18 **************************** ------- Post messages to the list by clicking here: mailto:joni@smoe.org Unsubscribe by clicking here: mailto:joni-digest-request@smoe.org?body=unsubscribe ------- Siquomb, isn't she?