From: les@jmdl.com (JMDL Digest) To: joni-digest@smoe.org Subject: JMDL Digest V2001 #17 Reply-To: joni@smoe.org Sender: les@jmdl.com Errors-To: les@jmdl.com Precedence: bulk Unsubscribe: mailto:joni-digest-request@smoe.org?body=unsubscribe Archives: http://www.smoe.org/lists/joni Websites: http://www.jmdl.com http://www.jonimitchell.com JMDL Digest Friday, January 12 2001 Volume 2001 : Number 017 The 'Official' Joni Mitchell Homepage, created by Wally Breese, can be found at http://www.jonimitchell.com. It contains the latest news, a detailed bio, Original Interviews, essays, lyrics and much much more. The JMDL website can be found at http://www.jmdl.com and contains interviews, articles, the member gallery, archives, and much more. ========== TOPICS and authors in this Digest: -------- Re: Sandra Bernhard [NJC] [Richard Goldman ] Reagan and the Apocalypse (NJC) [CarltonCT@aol.com] RE: Theremin (NJC) ["Wally Kairuz" ] Re: Joni's Presidential Performance ? ["Jim L'Hommedieu" ] RE: Politics and religion (NJC) ["Deb Messling" ] Grammies ["Deb Messling" ] List Members On the Road, (NJC) [MGVal@aol.com] The Impact of Lyrics, (NJC) [MGVal@aol.com] Re: Theremin (NJC) [MGVal@aol.com] Re: List Members On the Road, (NJC) [RoseMJoy@aol.com] Re: Reagan and the Apocalypse (NJC) (md) [MDESTE1@aol.com] abusive replies NJC [catman ] Re: Politics and religion (NJC) [Siresorrow@aol.com] Re: mother's day thread ["Lori R. Fye" ] Re: Politics and religion (NJC) ["Victor Johnson" ] Fundraising [AsharaJM@aol.com] Re: Colvin's "Steady On", NJC ["Mike Hicks" ] Re: mother's day thread (NJC) [FMYFL@aol.com] Re: mother's day thread [mags ] Re: Borders Bargains ["Mike Hicks" ] Re: Politics and religion (NJC) [catman ] Joni Mitchell True Type Font [slarty ] Re: Colvin's "Steady On", NJC ["Gerald Notaro (LIB)" ] Re: Stood up at the Fez/Mingus band (vljc) [Alison E ] Re: Colvin's "Steady On", NJC [SCJoniGuy@aol.com] Re: Colvin's "Steady On", NJC ["Gerald Notaro (LIB)" ] Re: List Members On the Road (NJC) [dsk ] Re: washington DC jonifest? (njc) [jan gyn ] Re: JMDL Digest V2001 #16 [LuvnMyWrld@aol.com] Re: Colvin's "Steady On", NJC [SCJoniGuy@aol.com] Re: Willie Cover [SCJoniGuy@aol.com] Re: Stood up at the Fez/Mingus band NJC [dsk ] Re: Politics and religion(long) (NJC) ["Victor Johnson" Subject: Re: Sandra Bernhard [NJC] >Date: Fri, 5 Jan 2001 09:04:02 -0500 (EST) >From: Emily Kirk Gray >Subject: Sandra Bernhard > >what a strange coincidence! my best friend here in >NYC went to see sandra's concert two nights ago Did anyone else see "Will & Grace" tonight? (1/11/01). Sandra was featured, and it was a hilarious spoof on 'fame' and 'people drawn to famous people', as well as sundry gay barbs and quips. What a hoot! ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 12 Jan 2001 03:42:12 EST From: CarltonCT@aol.com Subject: Reagan and the Apocalypse (NJC) Kakki writes: Randy and Clark, Where do you come up with this stuff?? I've seriously never heard anything remotely like this. > Funny, I was just thinking about that this morning. Reagan believed > he was going to be presiding over the apocalypse, which would be > global nuclear war. James Watt was convinced of the same. > Religious fanaticism combined with the awesome powers of > the upper government is a wee bit dangerous. From Clark: What Randy and I mention isn't purported, or secretive, or hidden information. It was news, and it was reported on network television and in the newspapers and in magazines. It was reported during a time of prosperity in the United States, or the illusion of it, when Federal spending far exceeded income and took up deep into trillions in debt, when junk bonds were flying, and hammers and toilet seats in the military cost thousands of dollars. But everyone seemed to be making money and the 87 stock market crash was still a ways off, so may as well ignore the President's literal interpretation of the Bible. The return of Christ was also one of Reagan's justifications for deficit spending. Reagan was confronted as to the accuracy of this report of his beliefs at a press conference. He did not deny the report and called it "an intellectual conversation" he was having with his staff one day. Reagan was absolutely one of the worst presidents we have ever had, a man his own conservative colleague Margaret Thatcher said "Just didn't have a real thought in his head. Not very bright." His wife and Jim Baker ran the country in the last few years with the help of her astrologist. It was utterly astonishing to me that more wasn't made of this, and all the more scary that Dubya mentions Reagan as the president he admires most. - - Clark NP: ESPN - surfing ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 12 Jan 2001 06:42:37 -0300 From: "Wally Kairuz" Subject: RE: Theremin (NJC) this is so like jmdl synchronicity! i spent all last weekend reading about theremins and especially about clara rockmore, who was a theremin virtuousa. is there anyway that someone might tape this movie for me? what's more, has anybody ever heard a theremin? it sounds so eerie! wallyK, getting ready for the first birthday greeting of 2001...soon... - -----Mensaje original----- De: owner-joni@jmdl.com [mailto:owner-joni@jmdl.com]En nombre de Steve Dulson Enviado el: Jueves, 11 de Enero de 2001 01:22 p.m. Para: joni@smoe.org Asunto: Theremin (NJC) Hello all! Has anyone seen this movie? It'a bio of the inventor of the first (?) electronic instrument. Wow! Caught it on Sundance channel last night (before Jazz) - it's really amazing. I had no idea about who Leon Theremin was, or his really bizarre life story. It's a great, quite moving film, so catch or rent it when you get the chance! There is a truly frightening interview with Brian Wilson...I hear he is much better now (the movie was made in '94). Also much footage of Robert Moog, who credits Theremin with inspiring his synthesizer. Back to work... - -- ######################################################## Steve Dulson Costa Mesa CA steve@psitech.com "The Tinker's Own" http://www.tinkersown.com "Southern California Dulcimer Heritage" http://members.aol.com/scdulcimer/ "The Living Tradition Concert Series" http://www.thelivingtradition.org/ ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 12 Jan 2001 04:50:58 -0500 From: "Jim L'Hommedieu" Subject: Re: Joni's Presidential Performance ? Victor asked: > Has Joni ever been asked to sing for > Kermit the Frog? > She is a muppet isn't she? I dunno. But I wish she would sing for a "Lama"..... Many times. :) Hey- new song title- "Song For A Lama". Naw, I guess it's been done. :) Lama Hey Paul- aren't you the guy who traded the BBC's "My Top 12" show that became seed material for Tape Tree #5? ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 12 Jan 2001 06:32:06 -0500 From: "Deb Messling" Subject: washington DC jonifest? (njc) Are any listers planning to attend the inaugaration day protests next week? My husband and I will be in Dupont Circle with the Voter March people, calling for electoral reforms. - ----------------------------------- Deb Messling "I like cats. They give the home a heartbeat." ~Joni Mitchell - ----------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 12 Jan 2001 06:36:28 -0500 From: "Deb Messling" Subject: RE: Politics and religion (NJC) There's no question that Watt's fundamentalism affected his stand on issues. The following, widely reported at the time, is from the CNN web site: The Reagan Revolution of 1980 drew ideological battle lines on the environment. James Watt, Reagan's first interior secretary, told his Senate confirmation hearing that his apparent lack of interest in protecting species for future generations was due to his certainty that Judgment Day would come before many future generations. Kakki asked: > Randy and Clark, > > Where do you come up with this stuff?? I've seriously never > heard anything > remotely like this. - ----------------------------------- Deb Messling "I like cats. They give the home a heartbeat." ~Joni Mitchell - ----------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 12 Jan 2001 06:40:33 -0500 From: "Deb Messling" Subject: Grammies Joni is nominated for "best traditional pop vocal album." Is this award televised, or is it one of those just announced as part of a long list? - ----------------------------------- Deb Messling "I like cats. They give the home a heartbeat." ~Joni Mitchell - ----------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 12 Jan 2001 07:16:59 EST From: MGVal@aol.com Subject: List Members On the Road, (NJC) In a message dated 01/11/2001 4:03:58 PM Pacific Standard Time, RoseMJoy@aol.com writes: << Oh I wish I could have had more advance notice. I would have loved to have joined you guys! Nikki who usually joins me in these outings is on her way to sunny California right now. >> Can we amend that to rainy California? After 3 or 4 missed phone calls, I successfully retrieved the traveling Nikki from the Sacramento Airport. Once she "showed me the ham," I let her in the car and brought her home. I shall eschew my usual morning romp with the vacuum cleaner in honor of my houseguest who is sleeping peacefully on my 11 year old's bottom bunk amongst 3 dozen stuffed animals and serenaded by nonstop 'Ny'Synch. Meeting and hosting list members is a really special treat. They feel like family, (and yet never seem to have the same: "you slashed my Davey Jones poster" issues that can crop up in blood family), and are just a delight to be around. MG - gearing up to write out a nice to-do list for Nikki. (shhh!) ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 12 Jan 2001 07:24:44 EST From: MGVal@aol.com Subject: The Impact of Lyrics, (NJC) In a message dated 01/11/2001 8:47:44 PM Pacific Standard Time, hell@ihug.co.nz writes: << They also mentioned Eminem as an example of an artist who's lyrics can be construed as "hateful". I can't say I disagree with that statement. I know people on this list like his album, but the messages he's sending prevent me from ever listening to his music (I actually leave the room if it's played) and I encourage others to boycott it as well. I know we've done this subject to death in the past, but despite protestations of "oh, it's only song lyrics" is DOES have an effect on some people - Richard Ramirez for one (LA's Night-Stalker), who was a big fan of AC/DC's "satanic" lyrics. >> While cruising through the posts, this caught my eye. It stuck out because I just read this month's newsletter from my 11 year old's chorale group and I quote it here: Note: used without permission. (:-D >>>Music can have a profound and stirring effect on us. When your youngster becomes part of a musical experience wherein they are also participants, as in the Christmas Oratorio last weekend and our other holiday concerts, they become imprinted for life with the enchanting sense of what music can be in one's life. The same earth-shaking emotional experience can come out of music which is morally confusing and sinister. Only in the case of that kind of music the emotional effect can be devastating to a young mind. No matter how many times we say this we can never say it enough---be invested in what your children are listening to at all times. Music is not harmless--it has a power to create memories that sustain and heal or distract and destroy. Help your children make good decisions about the music they listen to day to day. I salute your power as parents in helping your children make good choices. Last weekend, and our other concerts this holiday season, were certainly examples of those lasting choices ... Thank you." === And I believe that this is true. I don't think it is not synonymous in my book with "censorship" but rather "read/listen and connect." I think that a good deal of the public wants things labeled or censored simply because it's the easiest thing to do. It takes away the responsibility of acting as Hell does and reacting to Eminem's music. It makes it easier for me as a parent, because then I don't have to get THAT involved with my kids and can spend more time napping or reading or concocting Taylor's Ham recipes. It's an old debate, that's for sure. MG ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 12 Jan 2001 07:28:46 EST From: MGVal@aol.com Subject: Re: Theremin (NJC) In a message dated 01/12/2001 1:53:02 AM Pacific Standard Time, wallykai@fibertel.com.ar writes: << his is so like jmdl synchronicity! i spent all last weekend reading about theremins and especially about clara rockmore, who was a theremin virtuousa. >> ' More list synchronicity: I was re-reading Herman Wouk's "Marjorie Morningstar" the other day, (somewhat doofy novel, but his character portrayals are accurate), and the main character is at a wedding where the music is provided by a theremin player who was dressed like Clara Rockmore. MG ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 12 Jan 2001 07:48:57 EST From: RoseMJoy@aol.com Subject: Re: List Members On the Road, (NJC) In a message dated 1/12/01 7:16:59 AM Eastern Standard Time, MGVal writes: << I shall eschew my usual morning romp with the vacuum cleaner in honor of my houseguest who is sleeping peacefully on my 11 year old's bottom bunk amongst 3 dozen stuffed animals and serenaded by nonstop 'Ny'Synch. >> Nikki loves to sleep. Don't wake her up before noon. lol I'm glad she brought you the Taylor Ham MG. BTW I finally found your ham. It's pork roll silly! Now why didn't you tell me that? If you start cooking it, that might wake her up. :~) Rose in NJ missing you all ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 12 Jan 2001 08:02:07 EST From: MDESTE1@aol.com Subject: Re: Reagan and the Apocalypse (NJC) (md) Obviously the loony sometimes trumps the real. OK. Ill bite. If you cant actually produce the source and date of this mythical nonsense about Ronald Reagan then lets just say this falls into the realm of your sighting of the Loch ness Monster. Your statements about the economy are not only categorically wrong they only serve to demonstrate ignorance about the underpinnings of ther entire economic scenario that unfolded during clintons terms. In other words. Anyone who looks at a chart of either interest rates or the stock market will be forced to deduce that it began with Reagan not Clinton. Nice try though Carlton. You can seek comfort in the fact that some Aztecs are still waiting for Quetzecotl and they KNOW hes just around the corner. marcel << From Clark: What Randy and I mention isn't purported, or secretive, or hidden information. It was news, and it was reported on network television and in the newspapers and in magazines. It was reported during a time of prosperity in the United States, or the illusion of it, when Federal spending far exceeded income and took up deep into trillions in debt, when junk bonds were flying, and hammers and toilet seats in the military cost thousands of dollars. But everyone seemed to be making money and the 87 stock market crash was still a ways off, so may as well ignore the President's literal interpretation of the Bible. The return of Christ was also one of Reagan's justifications for deficit spending. Reagan was confronted as to the accuracy of this report of his beliefs at a press conference. He did not deny the report and called it "an intellectual conversation" he was having with his staff one day. Reagan was absolutely one of the worst presidents we have ever had, a man his own conservative colleague Margaret Thatcher said "Just didn't have a real thought in his head. Not very bright." His wife and Jim Baker ran the country in the last few years with the help of her astrologist. It was utterly astonishing to me that more wasn't made of this, and all the more scary that Dubya mentions Reagan as the president he admires most. >> ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 12 Jan 2001 13:47:28 +0000 From: catman Subject: abusive replies NJC It is quite possible to point out the arguments on your side of the fence without being rude, condescending and belittling. I am sick of reading this crap. A mature person with a real argument would be able to present them in an adult fashion without resorting to abuse. To lace arguments with snide put downs just antagonizes and leaves one with little interest in the person or his/her argument. Don't know about any body else, but I cannot trust anyone's opinion who cannot grasp that abuse is unacceptable. If they can't understand that I doubt they can understand anything else. If one feels one has to attack the people one disagrees with then it would appear that not only the beliefs may be flawed in the person doing the attacking but that their self esteem is also flawed. If it wasn't there would be no need felt to do the other party down. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 12 Jan 2001 09:18:40 EST From: Siresorrow@aol.com Subject: Re: Politics and religion (NJC) In a message dated 1/11/01 12:22:16 PM Eastern Standard Time, CarltonCT@aol.com writes: << Bush, on the other hand, credits Jesus as having helped him reach sobriety and actually declared a "Jesus Day" as an unofficial holiday in Texas. That Bush believes in the myth of Jesus makes me completely distrust him as it shows his susceptibility to magical thinking. >> i'm so shocked at this clark. i mean, what's so bad about believing in the magic of jesus. a man who lived, hoped, believed, and trusted in an intimacy with the creator greater than anyone around at the time was willing to acknowledge could even exist. and for his hope, he was killed. and afterwards, some how, some way, that hope made itself known to those who were close to him and it passed on to many. a little bread and wine, an embrace, and hope and trust in love transcends law and lasts beyond the shortness of our flesh and bones. and if that very same hope helped the man kick booze, why do you find that so offensive? and why are you so angry? patrick np. paula cole - pearl ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 12 Jan 2001 07:10:09 -0800 (PST) From: "Lori R. Fye" Subject: Re: mother's day thread Evian wrote: > I was poking around on the JMDL site today at > work and noticed the "Mother's Day" thread -- can > someone refresh my memory as to when this thread > occurred? Was it before I joined (sometime in Feb. > 98 or something) or was it during one of my "I have > too many digests and must delete all 40 of them?" As the "official compiler" of the Mother's Day thread, I can tell you that that Al Date started that great thread on June 23, and it ran just barely into July 1, 1998. It took me 2.5 years to get around to compiling it, and I just submitted it to Les, who put it on the "Archives and Threads" page, this month! Thanks for noticing ... Lori in DC . Yahoo! Photos - Share your holiday photos online! http://photos.yahoo.com/ ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 12 Jan 2001 10:10:26 -0500 From: "Victor Johnson" Subject: Re: Politics and religion (NJC) > i'm so shocked at this clark. i mean, what's so bad about believing in the > magic of jesus. a man who lived, hoped, believed, and trusted in an intimacy > with the creator greater than anyone around at the time was willing to > acknowledge could even exist. "And in the twilight, as the stars came out one by one and the moon cast on the marsh a radiance like that which a child sees quivering on the floor as he is rocked to sleep at evening, there walked into the lethal quicksands a very old man in tattered purple, crowned with withered vine-leaves and gazing ahead as if upon the golden domes of a fair city where dreams are understood. That night something of youth and beauty died in the elder world." H.P. Lovecraft This quote is from one my favorite stories ever, "The Quest of Iranon" by H.P. Lovecraft. In the story, a young man named Iranon, travels across the country in search of a mythical city of Aira, from which he believes he is from. He is a sweet youth who sings songs of beautiful things. "I am Iranon, and come from Aira, a fair city that I recall only dimly but seek to find again. I am a singer of songs that I learned in the fair city, and my calling is to make beauty with the things remembered of childhood. My wealth is in little memories and dreams, and in hopes that I sing in gardens when the moon is tender and the west wind stirs the lotus-buds." But in his travels he finds he is ignored, thought to be crazy, and just continues searching for this magical home which he never finds. Now whether it be Jesus, the magic of Joni's songs, Tolkien, muppets, shamanism, or whatever, it is dreams and magic, it is that magical childlike vision of the world wherein all the beauty lies and I would find the world a very barren and cold place indeed without this magic. I know this ounds like a far cry from politics and religion but if everybody believed in a little magic, maybe we would all be a little better off. Victor Johnson http://www.cdbaby.com/victorjohnson "Just beyond the morning falls the river of your dreams, Escaping from the day these wild creatures run away." Victor Johnson ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 12 Jan 2001 08:24:20 -0600 From: Kate Subject: ghostly garden Speaking of Joni and a ghostly garden, I have (Emil has it in his room now, actually) a magazine photo of Joni in a ghostly garden. Have you all seen this? I don't know what mag it came out of. It is a black and white photo of Joni standing there in a loose dress with a parasol over her head, and the garden is filled with exotic looking plants. By the way, some discussion of American politicians (or so it appears -- I scanned quickly past) has made it onto the only-joni list, which I receive in digest form. Mind your subject lines please, folks! Kate ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 12 Jan 2001 10:34:48 EST From: AsharaJM@aol.com Subject: Fundraising I just signed up for PayPal, so if any of you would like to either pay for the prints that are being offered as a fundraiser, or make a donation to jmdl.com or jonimitchell.com, you can now do this through Paypal with a credit card. This should make things a lot easier, especially for those of you that are overseas. When you sign up, put my e-mail address as the referral, and I will donate the extra $5 that Paypal gives me for that to the 2 websites. Check out the prints at: http://www.jmdl.com/prints.cfm and http://www.jonimitchell.com/Fundraiser/Fundraiser.html And remember, if you liked the video tree, you can make a donation to show your appreciation! :-) Hugs, Ashara ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 12 Jan 2001 11:04:33 -0500 From: "Mike Hicks" Subject: Re: Colvin's "Steady On", NJC > From: "Jim L'Hommedieu" > To: "Dave Miller" , "jay huss" , > "_JMDL - June 98" > Subject: Colvin's "Steady On", NJC > Date: Thu, 11 Jan 2001 21:18:33 -0500 > Reply-to: "Jim L'Hommedieu" > This album sounds fan-damn-tastic (on used, cut-out LP no less!). Cost? $4 > USD. This is less than 1/3 of what a new CD of this title would cost, with > worse sound and smaller pictures. Sheesh. S. Colvin's last album wasn't too shabby either. One of my favorite plays right now. (on CD of course) Great song writer. Mike ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 12 Jan 2001 10:40:54 EST From: FMYFL@aol.com Subject: Re: mother's day thread (NJC) In a message dated 1/12/01 10:30:22 AM Eastern Standard Time, lrfye@yahoo.com writes: << As the "official compiler" of the Mother's Day thread, I can tell you that that Al Date started that great thread on June 23, and it ran just barely into July 1, 1998. >> That's so strange that you brought up Mother's Day here in January, Evian. Yesterday, I was my doctor's waiting room flippin through old magazines. I picked up an old issue of Esquire, and there was an article about Mothers Day. I didn't get to read but the first paragraph, but it was calling it "Bitches Day" LOL (no offense to any Moms out there, and no Wally you can't call me a bitch on that day either). Anyway, I just thought it was a weird coincidence that you and Lori brought it up today. I'll have to check out the thread since I was a newbie back in '98. Thanks for letting us know Lori. Jimmy (playing hookie today) ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 12 Jan 2001 10:43:47 -0600 From: mags Subject: Re: mother's day thread "Lori R. Fye" wrote: > Evian wrote: > > > I was poking around on the JMDL site today at > > work and noticed the "Mother's Day" thread -- can > > someone refresh my memory as to when this thread > > occurred? Was it before I joined (sometime in Feb. > > 98 or something) or was it during one of my "I have > > too many digests and must delete all 40 of them?" > > As the "official compiler" of the Mother's Day thread, > I can tell you that that Al Date started that great > thread on June 23, and it ran just barely into July 1, > 1998. > > It took me 2.5 years to get around to compiling it, > and I just submitted it to Les, who put it on the > "Archives and Threads" page, this month! > > Thanks for noticing ... > > Lori > in DC In keeping with the synchronicity of the list....I had just recently read the Mothers Day Thread....and am here to acknowledge your efforts Lori. I thank you so much for the time and work it took to compile that. It is a most interesting read to say the very least. Id like to share my thoughts one day. If you want, let me know and I can send it privately. The subject matter is so close to home and all. I know Ive shared some of it in public, but for the moment, it is too difficult. mags. > > . > Yahoo! Photos - Share your holiday photos online! > http://photos.yahoo.com/ - -- - --------------------------------------------------------------------- _~O / /\_, ___/\ /_ - ----------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 12 Jan 2001 11:09:52 -0500 From: "Mike Hicks" Subject: Re: Borders Bargains > From: "Paul Pennington" > To: "Joni Mitchell Mail List" > Subject: Borders Bargains > Date: Thu, 11 Jan 2001 18:24:36 -0500 > Reply-to: "Paul Pennington" > Check out the bargain bin in your local Borders Store next time you're in > there -- they have some good stuff for $7.95 for a change: Joni, along with > Linda Ronstadt, Emmyhair Louis (sorry), and Neil Young, among others. > > Paul Pennington > Augusta, Georgia I think I will ride (40 minutes) over to Augusta and check that out. It's my favorite record store now. Mike ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 12 Jan 2001 15:50:04 +0000 From: catman Subject: Re: Politics and religion (NJC) Siresorrow@aol.com wrote: > In a message dated 1/11/01 12:22:16 PM Eastern Standard Time, > CarltonCT@aol.com writes: > > << Bush, on the other hand, credits Jesus as having helped him reach sobriety > and actually declared a "Jesus Day" as an unofficial holiday in Texas. > That > Bush believes in the myth of Jesus makes me completely distrust him as it > shows his susceptibility to magical thinking. >> > > i'm so shocked at this clark. i mean, what's so bad about believing in the > magic of jesus. I can't comment on what Clark meant. However, many have turned the story of Jesus into a corrupt version of it, which can justly be referred to as magical thinking. The Xtian teaching is that ONLY those who believe that jesus died to PAY(how appalling is a belief that a God would require such an evil thing as a sacrifice ) for our sins will enter Heaven. Entering heaven does not depend on who one is as a person, or ones attitude and beahviour to ones fellows, but in one's belief. to me that is a corrution of what Jesus taught. Xtians also teach that people are not responsible for their sins, that Jesus paid for them and that Satan urged us to commit them in the first place. By believing this, Xtians think we escape the consequences of our thoughts and actions. this is magical thiking. Jesus taught about personal repsonsibilty(we reap what we sow). He didn't say we could escape the consequences of our actions. He did say that thru prayer and meditation we could CHANGE ourselves on the inside, thus making it less likely we would make mistakes. he also said that the Kingsom of Heaven is WITHIN, not somewhere else. being 'born again in spirit' is not the ludicrous notion that one is changed immediately upon accepting a belief that is clearly wrong, but is the reslut of the slow process of a closer contact with the God within which helps one act from the spirit and not from the ego. Many people witter on about the 'suffering' of jesus and what a huge sacrifice he made. As we know, his death was horrible and he was betrayed. Horribel Yet he had parents who loved and cared for him. The suffering came at the end of his life. Compare His suffering with that a girl named Anna who was beaten and burned, starved and tied up in a bath until she died of cold and malnutrion. She was 6 years old. She suffered this abuse for years. people who in their fantasy think Jesus' suffering was anything like this, have no clue what suffering is. What about the Jews in the camps? What about the starving in Afirca? What about the millions of children starved, beaten, raped, killed everyday in this world? From what we know of Jesus and his teachings, it is descernible that he was a good man, and understood that he and God(and thus we and God) were not separate beings, That God is a part of us and we a part of God. That God dwells IN us and is NOT outside us. Thus Jusus was able to to manifest the gifts of the spirit to a greater extent than most, if not all, people. To believe in a God that is angry, jealous and loves conditonaly, is to believe in the human ego, nothing more. It seems to me the great sadness is people's inability to understand unconditonal love, to understand that our sins will NOT hold us back unelss we allow them to. No matter how far from the light we may wonder, the way back is never closed off. And God's love is never withheld. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 12 Jan 2001 10:56:35 -0500 From: slarty Subject: Joni Mitchell True Type Font Ok, I've been at it again. Now available, a Joni Mitchell graphical ttf font. Totally frivolous and only marginally useful this is for YOU. At the bottom of the page. http://www.jmdl.com/shinytoys/icons.cfm ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 12 Jan 2001 11:06:48 -0500 (EST) From: "Gerald Notaro (LIB)" Subject: Re: Colvin's "Steady On", NJC Shawn is my next to Joni favorite. And it only makes it better that she adores Joni. She is wonderful live. Her Live 88 is a must. For those of you with Direct TV they are broadcasting her live this month free as the featured concert artist. It is Live from Malaysia, I believe. I would love a copy, either VHS or cd if some decides to tape it. I have extensive Joni to trade! Jerry ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 12 Jan 2001 10:05:48 -0600 From: jonifan@clearsong.com Subject: Willie Cover >Bob I wanted to include a Joni Mitchell song on my first CD partially as a tribute and partially as an introduction of my own songs to JM fans. I also wanted to include a gay love song and there are lots of gay JM fans out there. My version is pretty unusual for gay men's music arena which tends to be club/dance music, cabaret/show tunes or comedy so I thought this would strike a chord- something simple, honest, direct. You may know about John Kelly who does a kind of amazing drag show where he dresses up as Joni and sings in this amazingly high voice. (see the film WIGSTOCK to hear John sing Woodstock to thousands in NY City). Willy was one of the few songs that leant itself to a gay treatment. I love doing Jericho in bars but it comes out as more generic love song lyrically. With Willie(sp.), I only change one word at the beginning. There isn't really another JM song that lends itself to this kind of interpretation. On my CD, it's placed at the end of my own songs which I think tend to be much darker and so it felt like a bit of springtime when we placed it there. The last song- the very short Winter Wishes - is like a quiet "say goodnight" encore and I wrote that song to be just that and use it when I perform. Finally, I love the lines: But you know it's hard to tell When you're in the spell If it's wrong or if it's real But your bound to lose If you let the blues Get you scared to feel I wished I'd written that! _____________________________________________ Richard Isen Clearsong Records . . .because a song is like a good companion. please visit http://www.clearsong.com ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 12 Jan 2001 08:17:38 -0800 (PST) From: Alison E Subject: Re: Colvin's "Steady On", NJC jim, this is one of my all-time favorite albums! and certainly colvin's finest, imho. i love nearly every song on it. colvin is very popular in salt lake city, my former town, and in fact one of the most difficult black diamond runs at snowbird ski resort is named "shotgun down the avalanche" and she performed at the resort when it was named. i can't remember how long ago this was, probably about 5 years ago. she's great live. alison e. - --- Jim L'Hommedieu wrote: > np: Shawn Colvin's "Steady On" album > sample verse: > > "I was feeling.... imploded: > A wooden smile, a wooden heart. > Then things exploded - like rockets in the dark. > > Now I'm pulling..... out splinters. > I'm off to hibernate somewhere > For a nuclear winter of another love affair. > > Cause he seemed like a mir-a-cle. > I ate it up like.... cer-e-al. > But it was something like... shrapnel." > > S. Colvin / J. Leventhal c-1989 > > Pretty neat, huh? And it sings even better than it > reads. And that's not > even my favorite song on the album! > > This album sounds fan-damn-tastic (on used, cut-out > LP no less!). Cost? $4 > USD. This is less than 1/3 of what a new CD of this > title would cost, with > worse sound and smaller pictures. Sheesh. > > I am not a Luddite. I am not a Luddite. I am not a > Luddite. > > Lama Yahoo! Photos - Share your holiday photos online! http://photos.yahoo.com/ ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 12 Jan 2001 08:32:37 -0800 (PST) From: Alison E Subject: Re: Stood up at the Fez/Mingus band (vljc) due to unforseen circumstances, i did not go. i had a really bad day, so when i got word of the cancellation from patrick, i was ready to just go home and go to bed. which i did, but not before attempting to get a hold of debra and let her know that i wasn't going. i thought i had called early enough for you to have gotten the message, i didn't know you had left early not to return home. i didn't have the cell #, and in my brain-dead status, didn't think to call the Fez. I am truly sorry that this happened, i certainly didn't mean for it to happen, and there was no intentional "standing up" at all. i am not normally a flaky person, but i certainly didn't behave well here. my deepest apologies to debra, and to anyone else who might have shown up. sincerely, alison e. --- dsk wrote: > I would have loved for you to be there too since I > ended up there by myself, in > the center booth, best seat in the house, waiting, > waiting, drinking a beer, > waiting, listening to the music over the sound > system. The NYC Joni contingent > apparently needs to be contacted at the very last > moment to see if plans are > still on. Jeez, I didn't know, so I left home today > at 4:15 to meet a friend to > see a movie (Chocolat again for me, aahhhh!) and > after the movie and a chat she > went off to her play rehearsal and I went downtown, > getting to the Fez a little > early, standing in line, paying my hard cold cash, > and doing that waiting thing, > just hanging out with independent me. No word on my > cell phone; no word at the > Fez, which would have gotten to me if they'd been > called since it's such a small > place, and with a "Leader" reservation for 6 it > looked like all was ok to me. > Two evening messages from concerned Alison were on > my home answering machine and > I heard them when I got home at midnight; it didn't > cross my mind to check my > answering machine before going into the Fez. Hmmm. > > I don't know why everyone cancelled at the last > minute and I hope all's ok with > everyone; but along with that I've gotta say I've > never been treated so rudely. > So, live and learn is what I say at such times. > > The Mingus Big Band, though, was great. I only know > Mingus from Joni's album, so > had no idea he wrote such quirky stuff, with some > intricate passages, lots of > humor, and always tough (nothing sentimental). > Seemed intellectual rather than > emotional. Listening to jazz recordings can make me > kinda nuts, but hearing and > also seeing the musicians' interaction makes it > quite enjoyable. I like how they > trade off the spotlight (so to speak) and how they > listen so intently to each > other's playing. It all seems so personal and > intertwined I'm drawn in. So the > evening was very pleasant despite my stood-up > status. I ended up sharing "my" > prized booth with four strangers who spoke a Slavic > language (I think), > listening to the music and eating hummus for dinner > (that stuff is so yummy) > and, since the Fez is downstairs, feeling the subway > trains (especially the 4 > and 5 express trains) when they zip by underneath; > it vibrates the seats and > gives everyone a fanny massage every few minutes, > which is soooo New York I lov > I also spent some of my evening imagining Joni there > on stage. That must have > been such a wonderful experience for the lucky few > that knew about it in time to > get in. Her performance there wasn't that long ago, > but I think of it as the > start of her reemergence and blossoming, and the Fez > (in my mind anyway) is a > special place because of that. It's also very > relaxed and the people that work > there are friendly, it's not too expensive (for NYC > anyway), and they have all > types of performances (saw Susan McKeown, a > fantastic Irish singer, last week). > The cafe upstairs is middle eastern decor with > couches and candles and small > tables... very cozy. Anyone that visits NYC, check > it out... just don't expect > me to be waitin' on ya. > > Debra Shea Yahoo! Photos - Share your holiday photos online! http://photos.yahoo.com/ ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 12 Jan 2001 10:56:44 EST From: SCJoniGuy@aol.com Subject: Re: Colvin's "Steady On", NJC << S. Colvin's last album wasn't too shabby either. One of my favorite plays right now. (on CD of course) Great song writer. >> Isn't Shawn sorta overdue for a new release? Anybody have any scoop on that? Bob ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 12 Jan 2001 11:48:51 -0500 (EST) From: "Gerald Notaro (LIB)" Subject: Re: Colvin's "Steady On", NJC She's just had a baby so I think she's probably working on one now. Also, your fave, Rufus W. has a new cd coming out in April. Knew that would interest you. Jerry On Fri, 12 Jan 2001 SCJoniGuy@aol.com wrote: > << S. Colvin's last album wasn't too shabby either. One of my favorite > plays right now. (on CD of course) Great song writer. >> > > Isn't Shawn sorta overdue for a new release? Anybody have any scoop on that? > > Bob ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 12 Jan 2001 12:39:04 -0500 From: "Mike Hicks" Subject: shawn colvin Anybody remember seeing Shawn on Austin City Limits back in about '90? Boy was that a good show. She wore a black short skirt and put on a good show. I bet she is good live. Would love to see her. Mike ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 12 Jan 2001 12:18:45 -0500 From: dsk Subject: Re: List Members On the Road (NJC) MGVal@aol.com wrote: > Meeting and hosting list members is a really special treat. They feel like > family, (and yet never seem to have the same: "you slashed my Davey Jones > poster" issues that can crop up in blood family), and are just a delight to > be around. Oh, yes, I agree that being with other people that love Joni, and especially people that love her work so much they'd even be on this list, can be a special treat. I wouldn't go so far as to say they feel like family, but I have had some enjoyable times with people I've come to know through the list. Anticipating another one was why I was so disappointed (along with all sorts of other emotions) when the NYC folks didn't show last night. We woulda had a very good time guys. Such a scheduling glitch is rare, though, and I'm going to forget about it any second now. What I most associate Joni listers with is being observant and articulate, which can lead to some interesting conversations and some challenging ones too sometimes, and that's fun to me, kinda like quirky brain exercise. It's always good to get some of that. Debra Shea NP: Lucinda Williams, Car Wheels on a Gravel Road, "Right in Time" ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 12 Jan 2001 09:14:50 -0800 From: jan gyn Subject: Re: washington DC jonifest? (njc) At 06:32 AM 1/12/01 -0500, Deb Messling wrote: >Are any listers planning to attend the inaugaration day protests next week? >My husband and I will be in Dupont Circle with the Voter March people, >calling for electoral reforms. > >----------------------------------- >Deb Messling No. But I wish I was. "Destroy all monsters." -some 60s Japanese Scifi movie. - -jan ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 12 Jan 2001 12:28:07 EST From: LuvnMyWrld@aol.com Subject: Re: JMDL Digest V2001 #16 Evian---and everyone...One of my resolutions was to lurk-LESS. So Evian...just had to comment...My Aunt's name is Dale...my name is Kelly...I personally think..they are both lovely names. I don't think it's too creepy.. PS....recently started the dyer---with the cat in it......Thought the thumping sound was my husband's tennis shoes...started the wash....thoughts went to the time of year December....put the soap in the washer...My husband wouldn't wash his tennis shoes.....ever....and certainly not in DECEMBER....OH my Gosh....I just freaked....she was ok..Thank GOD....meowed a few times....But she was certainly......FLUFFY! ..I however; cried for days...:( Have a great Friday..everyone... Kelly FYI middle name: Suzanne ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 12 Jan 2001 12:25:35 EST From: SCJoniGuy@aol.com Subject: Re: Colvin's "Steady On", NJC << She's just had a baby so I think she's probably working on one now.>> But of course! ANYTHING to get out of changing diapers... :~D <> Yes, I'll prepare to go into "swoon mode"...:~P Bob, playing hookey too, Jimmy!! NP: Luka Bloom, "Throw Your Arms Around Me" ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 12 Jan 2001 12:38:57 EST From: SCJoniGuy@aol.com Subject: Re: Willie Cover << I wished I'd written that! >> Yes, she does make it seem easy, doesn't she? And I suppose you're right about a lot of Joni's songs not transforming easily to be sung in a gay context. I thought about "See You Sometime", but then saw the line about "holding some honey that came on to you". Likewise, I looked at "Help Me" and the first thing that I saw was "sweet-talking ladies man". "Last Time I Saw Richard" (which your record reminds me the most of), talks of Richard getting married, which makes it more difficult. I had the pleasure of singing "Amelia" with Paz on guitar at Jonifest 2000 and although I am straight, I left the lyrics as Joni wrote them, and that one pretty much works as a 'man-to-man' song. Anyway, thanks for the response, and I'm hoping you'll sell 600 or so CD's in next couple weeks! :~) Bob NP: Luka Bloom, "No Surprises" (an unplugged version of the Radiohead song...shows what a great song it is!) ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 12 Jan 2001 12:59:22 -0500 From: dsk Subject: Re: Stood up at the Fez/Mingus band NJC It's ok, not forgotten but certainly forgiven, and much better this than some horrible taxi accident, which I spent some unpleasant time picturing. Next time, though, I will relentlessly, obnoxiously be calling you often to confirm, but I'm sure you'll understand such annoying behavior. I hope you're feeling better today. Debra Shea P.S. Thanks for calling, and I'll be taking you up on that offer of "I owe ya one." We'll figure something out. NP: Still Lucinda, Car Wheels..., "Jackson" Alison E wrote: > due to unforseen circumstances, i did not go. i had a > really bad day, so when i got word of the cancellation > from patrick, i was ready to just go home and go to > bed. which i did, but not before attempting to get a > hold of debra and let her know that i wasn't going. > i thought i had called early enough for you to have > gotten the message, i didn't know you had left early > not to return home. i didn't have the cell #, and in > my brain-dead status, didn't think to call the Fez. > I am truly sorry that this happened, i certainly > didn't mean for it to happen, and there was no > intentional "standing up" at all. i am not normally a > flaky person, but i certainly didn't behave well here. > my deepest apologies to debra, and to anyone else who > might have shown up. > sincerely, > alison e. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 12 Jan 2001 12:54:38 -0500 From: "Victor Johnson" Subject: Re: Politics and religion(long) (NJC) > I can't comment on what Clark meant. However, many have turned the story of Jesus into a > corrupt version of it, which can justly be referred to as magical thinking. > > The Xtian teaching is that ONLY those who believe that jesus died to PAY(how appalling is > a belief that a God would require such an evil thing as a sacrifice ) for our sins will > enter Heaven. Entering heaven does not depend on who one is as a person, or ones attitude > and beahviour to ones fellows, but in one's belief. to me that is a corrution of what > Jesus taught. Xtians also teach that people are not responsible for their sins, that Jesus > paid for them and that Satan urged us to commit them in the first place. By believing > this, Xtians think we escape the consequences of our thoughts and actions. this is magical > thiking. Some Christians do think in this way but to imply that all Christians follow this pattern of thought is a vast generalization and innaccurate. While this may ring true in some cases, and may be something that has contaminated Christianity throughout the years, I think this is an oversimplification of the belief system of a "Christian". In my experience growing up as a Christian in the Episcopal church, I found that belonging to this group of people had everything to do with who I am as a person, and my attitude and behavior towards others. And even though I have not attended a church regularly in many years, I still find this one of the most shaping, formative experiences I have ever experienced. It is here where I really learned the concept of unconditional love, and it was with Chrisitians, and it was largely spent in youth retreats where we would discuss the idea of God, sing alot of songs, and decide for ourselves what we believed. It is in fact in this setting where I first learned to play the guitar and wrote my first songs, "The One and Only Way to God's Heart." Most of my years in highschool where spent listening to rock 'n roll albums I would discover every week and bring home, and reading almost every Dell Rey fantasy book in print. I didn't really fit in in highschool and rarely went out. Belonging to the Episcopal church in those years really helped me through some hard years, growing up in a typical dysfunctional family. I still believe the people I met there are some of the most genuine people I have ever known. And while I don't really buy into the concept of "being saved", when I reflect upon it, I think even these people can be genuine in their beliefs which I think in a large part begins inside and is between oneself and God, and that they can be genuinely good people. And while the beliefs that the Baptist convention espouse horrify me, many of the churches are dropping out, Jimmy Carter has dissassociated himself, and others. And you know, I'm not really sure that I agree that Christians in general are just passing the buck to Jesus, and blaming everything on Satan. I think that one can find true redemption for their sins, accept their own responsibility for their actions, and believe that they have been saved. I think these beliefs can run very deep, deep into the heart, and is not as simplistic as you make it out to be. People who pass everything on to Jesus simply to assuage their guilt may exist but I think they are just using Christianity and I would not consider them true Christians. I also disagree with how the term magic is used here. Thinking in that way may be self-serving and shallow but not magical. I think having a deep belief in the mystery God is magical. And as I said earlier, having an appreciation for all things of childhood and things of the imagination, that is magical. I think the word magical is often misused in a negative way, that has little to do with the true meaning of the word. And it ironic that there was such a clash between early Christianity and the old religion, as I think in some ways they are not so far off from each other. > Jesus taught about personal repsonsibilty(we reap what we sow). He didn't say we could > escape the consequences of our actions. He did say that thru prayer and meditation we > could CHANGE ourselves on the inside, thus making it less likely we would make mistakes. > he also said that the Kingsom of Heaven is WITHIN, not somewhere else. I guess we agree here, though I still disagree with the liberal use of the word "Christian". > Many people witter on about the 'suffering' of jesus and what a huge sacrifice he made. As > we know, his death was horrible and he was betrayed. Horribel Yet he had parents who loved > and cared for him. The suffering came at the end of his life. Compare His suffering with > that a girl named Anna who was beaten and burned, starved and tied up in a bath until she > died of cold and malnutrion. She was 6 years old. She suffered this abuse for years. > people who in their fantasy think Jesus' suffering was anything like this, have no clue > what suffering is. What about the Jews in the camps? What about the starving in Afirca? > What about the millions of children starved, beaten, raped, killed everyday in this world? Yes, what about all of this? It is truly horrible but I don't see how the suffering one person experienced, Jesus, is any less horrible than any of the other suffering that goes on. Two more teenagers where killed this week in Atlanta, one who attended a keg party that was set up and paid for by her friend's mother. She was 18, bright and beautiful, just starting life and now she is dead. I don't think people believe that Jesus's suffering makes all this other suffering okay. The point is that Jesus did make a sacrifice and showed that there was another life where there would be no suffering. In one part you're saying to believe in unconditional love and that you believe people can truly find redemption and then you're saying that Jesus' death was indeed horrible yet somehow inconsequential. I think this is again, a generalization of what Jesus' sacrifice truly means to people who are Christians. I don't see any point in comparing his suffering to this other suffering. How can you place a value on how bad one case of suffering is compared to another. I think his suffering is symbolic in that we find somehow we can forgive people who are responsible for all of this suffering that goes on by showing them unconditional love, though it seems like this is much easier said than done. In "The Brothers Karamozov", Ivan has an argument in which he says if one little child has to suffer( and he gives several descriptions of some children who have suffered horribly terrible deaths) then he doesn't want to go to Heaven. He'd give his ticket away if he could keep these children from suffering. I think this is an argument that everyone must have themselves to decide if they can accept the death of Christ, as a redemption for the world. It seems to me the great sadness is people's inability to > understand unconditonal love, to understand that our sins will NOT hold us back unelss we > allow them to. No matter how far from the light we may wonder, the way back is never > closed off. And God's love is never withheld. This is true. I've really enjoyed this discussion as it has compelled me to reexamine my own beliefs. Victor ------------------------------ End of JMDL Digest V2001 #17 **************************** ------- Post messages to the list by clicking here: mailto:joni@smoe.org Unsubscribe by clicking here: mailto:joni-digest-request@smoe.org?body=unsubscribe ------- Siquomb, isn't she?