From: les@jmdl.com (JMDL Digest) To: joni-digest@smoe.org Subject: JMDL Digest V2001 #15 Reply-To: joni@smoe.org Sender: les@jmdl.com Errors-To: les@jmdl.com Precedence: bulk Unsubscribe: mailto:joni-digest-request@smoe.org?body=unsubscribe Archives: http://www.smoe.org/lists/joni Websites: http://www.jmdl.com http://www.jonimitchell.com JMDL Digest Thursday, January 11 2001 Volume 2001 : Number 015 The 'Official' Joni Mitchell Homepage, created by Wally Breese, can be found at http://www.jonimitchell.com. It contains the latest news, a detailed bio, Original Interviews, essays, lyrics and much much more. The JMDL website can be found at http://www.jmdl.com and contains interviews, articles, the member gallery, archives, and much more. ========== TOPICS and authors in this Digest: -------- Re: responses to the lovely Mr. P (NJC) [catman ] The Ghostly Garden [SCJoniGuy@aol.com] Re:Republicans and musicians ["Blair Fraipont" ] Nathan La Franeer [jgaertner@mindspring.com] Re:Republicans and musicians (NJC) [Don Rowe ] re: Ghostly Garden ["c Karma" ] Re:Republicans and musicians NJC [SCJoniGuy@aol.com] Re: Nathan La Franeer [SCJoniGuy@aol.com] Theremin (NJC) [Steve Dulson ] nyc jmdl gathering tonight! [Alison E ] RE: LONG RANT (NJC) (md) [Alison E ] delayed greeting [christopher blake ] Politics and religion (NJC) [CarltonCT@aol.com] Re: Lori's Long Rant NJC ["Lori R. Fye" ] Re: Lori's Long Rant NJC [catman ] sexual dysfunction NJC [catman ] Re: delayed greeting NJC [SCJoniGuy@aol.com] Re: Portland JMDL group gathering? ["Diane Evans" ] Joni photo [was nyc jmdl gathering tonight!] [dsk ] RE: sexual dysfunction NJC ["Wally Kairuz" ] Re: Theremin (NJC) [hessj@ix.netcom.com] Re: Chavez (NJC) [SMEBD@aol.com] RE: rufus NJC [jonifan@clearsong.com] Re: Covers, Volume #13 (Long) [FMYFL@aol.com] Re: political rantings (njc) ["Kakki" ] RE: rufus [SCJoniGuy@aol.com] yellow taxi drive thru ghostly garden ["BRIAN SYMES" ] NJC--Just say NO to Ashcroft... [Al Date ] Re: John McVie (NJC) [jan gyn ] Borders Bargains ["Paul Pennington" ] Re: Politics and religion (NJC) [Randy Remote ] Re: Joni photo [was nyc jmdl gathering tonight!] [RoseMJoy@aol.com] Success has gone to his.... retirement account. NJC, Long ["Jim L'Hommed] Colvin's "Steady On", NJC ["Jim L'Hommedieu" ] ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Thu, 11 Jan 2001 09:32:37 +0000 From: catman Subject: Re: responses to the lovely Mr. P (NJC) > My response is two-fold: > 1. I totally did not mean to imply that all pro-life people are evil and > want to bomb clinics. I know many pro-lifers and I can sympathize with > their positions though I am staunchly pro-choice. I don't like the idea of abortion. However, the only person who has a right to make the choice is the woman who is pregnant. No one else. We do not have the right to impose our feelings or judgements upon her. > colin@tantra.fsbusiness.co.uk http://www.geocities.com/tantra_apso/index.html ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 11 Jan 2001 23:49:26 +1300 From: "hell" Subject: Re: Another one for the list (NJC) Kakki wrote: > How about any Fleetwood Mac? Uh oh, John McVie has recently come out as a > "staunch Republican," too. In the latest TV guide (that comes free with every Thursday paper) the back page is devoted to celebrity photos. Today's edition has a photo of Bill and Hilary Clinton, with Stevie Nicks, Mick Fleetwood and Lindsay Buckingham with the following caption: "Start thinking about tomorrow ... When Bill and Hilary said so long to the White House staff, Fleetwood Macca's Lindsay Buckingham, Stevie Nicks and Mick Fleetwood came along to sing That Song one more time." Although I doubt they did, if Christine McVie wasn't there, since it's her song in the first place! I also seem to recall Stephen Stills at Clinton's inauguration celebrations, along with a host of other celebrities. I've never thought these things were terribly "political", just another gig! Hell ____________________________ "To have great poets, there must be great audiences too." - Walt Whitman hell@ihug.co.nz Visit the NBLs (Natural Born Losers) at: http://www.nbls.co.nz ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 11 Jan 2001 08:54:51 EST From: SCJoniGuy@aol.com Subject: The Ghostly Garden Thanks to everybody who responded to my question about the "ghostly garden", and please if there are more opinions, speak up! While it may be obvious to some, it was vague to me. I wonder why she used the term 'garden' instead of calling NYC a "ghostly graveyard" (with the high-rise headstones)? Maybe she was saving that metaphor for "Harry's House" with the dragonfly on the tomb. Along the same lines, I received an excellent reply from Sheldon, and when I asked him to forward it to the list for others to read, he confessed that he didn't know how to do that, and asked me to help out... <> So hopefully I won't get bounced from the list, but if I do, at least it was for a good cause! ;~)Here's what Sheldon shared with me and now I'm sharing with you: <> Nice, huh? And great food for thought and discussion... Bob NP: Fat City, "Just A Little Bit" ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 11 Jan 2001 10:37:27 -0500 From: "Blair Fraipont" Subject: Re:Republicans and musicians Yes, i agree with bob, you are all wacky. Music is music.. Just like, you dont stop thinking Sammy Davis Junior is funny just because you found out he was a part of the Church of Satan.. I mean Bing Crosby beat his children supposedly and he had the biggest selling single for the longsest time. Personally, I like alot of Frank Zappa's views on Republicans and Democrats, I think it would have been great if Zappa had been able to run back in 92, except that he got sick. blair np:"NEver" Heart _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 11 Jan 2001 10:40:07 -0500 From: jgaertner@mindspring.com Subject: Nathan La Franeer There has never been a doubt in my mind that, despite all the exotic images conjured by Joni's lyrics, she was making poetic reference to the imposing old Madison Square Garden venue to which her taxi was taking her for a performance. She told me so. :-) Jim ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 11 Jan 2001 07:49:08 -0800 (PST) From: Don Rowe Subject: Re:Republicans and musicians (NJC) - --- Blair Fraipont wrote: > Personally, I like alot of Frank Zappa's views > on Republicans and > Democrats, Didn't that go something like: "If you're a young Republican you have to heart. If you're an old Democrat you have no brain." Don Rowe ;-) ===== Visit me anytime at http://www.mp3.com/donrowe Yahoo! Photos - Share your holiday photos online! http://photos.yahoo.com/ ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 11 Jan 2001 15:55:28 From: "c Karma" Subject: re: Ghostly Garden "Nathan LaFraneer" starts with mapping the route, "from confusion to the plane." I always thought of the cab ride taking a path from Manhattan through Queens where I grew up to either JFK (maybe called Idlewild, then -- the same name of the current SASKATOON airport!) or LaGuardia airports. The route to either can take one past several large, crowded graveyards, although recent highway construction has hidden them behind privacy walls. I always associated the "ghostly garden" partly with those gloomy sites. In fits of youthful ennui, I often remarked dryly that the only reason people came to Queens from Manhattan was "to fly or to die." On the up side, We of Queens DID have the '64-'65 World's Fair (Michaelangelo's Pieta was there, even the POPE came!), the '69 Mets, and Louis Armstrong. So there was also color and sun, glinting smiles and chrome plate. CC "Anima rising, queen of Queens." -- JM _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 11 Jan 2001 10:57:45 EST From: SCJoniGuy@aol.com Subject: Re:Republicans and musicians NJC <> While I'm always glad when someone agrees with me, I was just being facetious with my comment...since the departure of Ada/Nuriel, there's nobody here in this brilliant and esteemed crowd that I would truly brand as wacky. I meant it purely in a Dave Letterman way! ;~) Bob NP: AC/DC, "Let Me Put My Love Into You", which will probably never be played at an inauguration! :~D ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 11 Jan 2001 11:04:04 EST From: SCJoniGuy@aol.com Subject: Re: Nathan La Franeer <> But Jim, NLF was from STAS, which was when she was still playing glorified coffeehouses...I don't know, but I'd be real surprised to see that she played MSG prior to the release of STAS. Was she part of some folk festival at MSG or something, and the REAL question, do you have a tape of the performance to share? ;~) Bob AC/DC, "Back In Black" ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 11 Jan 2001 08:21:57 -0800 From: Steve Dulson Subject: Theremin (NJC) Hello all! Has anyone seen this movie? It'a bio of the inventor of the first (?) electronic instrument. Wow! Caught it on Sundance channel last night (before Jazz) - it's really amazing. I had no idea about who Leon Theremin was, or his really bizarre life story. It's a great, quite moving film, so catch or rent it when you get the chance! There is a truly frightening interview with Brian Wilson...I hear he is much better now (the movie was made in '94). Also much footage of Robert Moog, who credits Theremin with inspiring his synthesizer. Back to work... - -- ######################################################## Steve Dulson Costa Mesa CA steve@psitech.com "The Tinker's Own" http://www.tinkersown.com "Southern California Dulcimer Heritage" http://members.aol.com/scdulcimer/ "The Living Tradition Concert Series" http://www.thelivingtradition.org/ ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 11 Jan 2001 08:44:43 -0800 (PST) From: Alison E Subject: nyc jmdl gathering tonight! hello everyone, being the event coordinating master that i am, i wanted to post to the list that several of us will be getting together tonight at Fez to hear the Mingus Big Band live. Those scheduled to attend include the lovely debra shea, patrick, roberto and myself. emily has regretfully declined due to illness. we love her anyway. information on the show, location and cost are below. please feel free to attend if you are a lurker or seldom-poster. we would love to have you! i made a reservation for 6, and it looks like we only have four right now. thanks, and see ya there. alison e. Fez (Under Time Cafe) 18.00 (cash only) show starts at 9:30, we are meeting at 8:30 380 Lafayette St (at great jones st) New York, NY 10003 Phone: (212) 533-7000 http://www.feznyc.com/ Yahoo! Photos - Share your holiday photos online! http://photos.yahoo.com/ ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 11 Jan 2001 08:59:55 -0800 (PST) From: Alison E Subject: RE: LONG RANT (NJC) (md) i was so greatful to get this news, that there actually is NO glass ceiling. i had to take the day off work so that i could call all my girlfriends and let 'em know! fortunately, most of them are home raisin' babies (where they should be!) thanks, marcel. i'll call the national organization for women and let them know they can drop this whole ERA thing now. what a relief! alison e. - --- MDESTE1@aol.com wrote: > This is positively laughable. Linda Chavez obviously > has never faced a glass > ceiling because shes a conservative and has been a > super achiever so she > would have said so if she had. HOWEVER, she has now. > This is probably the > Its hillarious. In the midst of > the most catty (Harris' > Makeup)mysoginist hissyfit are the Dems conducting > themselves. Its as if "Oh > Glass ceilings. What a laugh. > > Marcel deste Yahoo! Photos - Share your holiday photos online! http://photos.yahoo.com/ ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 11 Jan 2001 09:00:33 -0800 (PST) From: christopher blake Subject: delayed greeting hi. i am newly acquainted with you all but like what i have been reading. i love joni's music and enjoy it even more now that i know her tunings. any new englanders? Yahoo! Photos - Share your holiday photos online! http://photos.yahoo.com/ ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 11 Jan 2001 12:03:17 EST From: CarltonCT@aol.com Subject: Politics and religion (NJC) In an otherwise excellent post, Randy writes: "As to Kakki's [good] question about whether we should feel just as squeamish about Gore's born-again Baptist orientation (or Leiberman, who can't seem to produce a sentence that doesn't refer to God) as we are about George W's deep ties to the religious right, the answer is yes." I don't think Gore is a born again Baptist, any more than Clinton is. I suspect both men are religious skeptics who know that in order to be electable, you should at least look like a Christian of some kind and attend church accordingly. People are scared by atheists who are vilified as amoral. Clinton and Gore purport to be Baptists because they descend from a long line of them. Clinton doesn't behave like a Baptist (not a good one anyway) and Gore doesn't think like one. Gore's book "Earth in the Balance" is a thoughtful one, but he attempts and fails to find a Biblical justification for the preservation of our "garden planet, oasis in space". The Bible clearly tells us all the wrong things to do when it comes to ecology: to be fruitful and multiply, and to subdue the earth and its beasts. Some people think the Bible has a timeless wisdom and it does, but it's mostly a grossly outdated and irrelevant text which to a nonbeliever is nothing but the collected myths of the Hebrews -- it has no more veracity than the collected myths of the Ancient Greeks or Teutons or the present day Japanese who believe a descendent of the sun goddess Amiterasu is sitting on the Chrysanthemum throne. Yeah, right. I may be a Democrat, but Lieberman's constant harping on God in the campaign was totally inappropriate and I was glad when some Jewish organizations told him to stop it. Bush, on the other hand, credits Jesus as having helped him reach sobriety and actually declared a "Jesus Day" as an unofficial holiday in Texas. That Bush believes in the myth of Jesus makes me completely distrust him as it shows his susceptibility to magical thinking. That's exactly why Ashcroft, a fundamentalist Christian, should be strongly opposed as his conservative politics are directly influenced by his religious beliefs. I can't believe this won't effect how he enforces the present laws of the land including reproductive rights and gay and women's rights. Our nation was founded by a combination of atheists and deists who believed in the separation of church and state. It's time to throw out all the bibles in our courts and places of government and it's time we get rid of the word God on our money as well as the ridiculous notion that we all do or should place our trust in him. I don't -- it is purely human beings who are running the show down here. God is not intervening, does not take sides, does not have an opinion, cannot tell us what's right. We have to take complete responsibility for what happens on the planet. As I mentioned in a previous post, one of the ideas of the Reagan years that made me genuinely ill was Reagan's personal belief that the Rapture was coming soon. Reagan believed we didn't need to worry about exploiting the environment as Jesus was coming soon to straighten out everything and recreate the world order for a thousand years of peace. The historical Jesus died about 2000 years ago and he's going to stay dead. He won't come back and recreate all the old growth forests destroyed by clear cutting and revive all the animal species who are extinct or will be extinct as a result of environmental destruction. Jesus will not fill the hole in the ozone layer or halt global warming. As for Chavez, I believe what was reported on CNN, that Bush deep sixed her after learning that she had not been forthcoming. He would likely have stood by her if she hadn't withheld this information. The whole issue of hiring illegals is an interesting one as it is utterly common in California and Texas. I have hired a few workers myself and never questioned any of them about their status and have only ever paid them cash - if you do it through an agency, they will only get minimum wage and they will have to pay taxes on it. The old stereotype of Mexicans being a lazy people who idle away the afternoons in siestas is utterly false. All the latinos I work with are incredibly hard working, and more importantly, they take on jobs that most Americans are not willing to take. I learned a few years ago that Mexican and Central American farm workers are brought to other places in the United States to harvest fruit and cotton because they do a better job than local laborers. The secret that is not a secret is that the economies of California and Texas need all the illegals we have or we would otherwise face a labor shortage. We don't have a huge pool of welfare recipients who can replace them. I am sure Chavez had plenty of compassion for the woman she housed and hired, but she also put that woman to work. Lori listed the real reasons the Chavez nomination should be opposed -- she's no friend of labor, just as Gale Norton is no friend of the Interior. Bush's nominee for Education is receiving bipartisan support (although he does support vouchers) so it isn't like the Dems are opposing everything Bush does because he stole the election (and he did). It's a matter of fighting for what's best, and Bush's picks for his cabinet have shown us how genuinely conservative he is. I am glad that my own congressman and senators will be fighting this administration on every objectionable policy, especially the wholesale exploitation of the environment which we have seen in Bush's own state of Texas, the most polluted in the nation. - - Clark NP: beautiful rain ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 11 Jan 2001 09:25:29 -0800 (PST) From: "Lori R. Fye" Subject: Re: Lori's Long Rant NJC Colin wrote: > Some people are born with learning difficulties, > some with lower iq's, some are disabled, some ar > born into severely dysfunctional families. If these > familes are aslo poor, the offsrping will not have > access to the help they will need in order to > function properly and in most cases will be left > behind in the low paid jobs, if they can work at all. Colin, you are SO right on the mark! I've been thinking about these things almost non-stop since yesterday. Some people will claim that the people you describe are subscribing to the program of victimization. But there ARE victims of less fortunate circumstances, many more than wed care to admit. And they need the help of those of us who never have been victims, or who have managed to come out of our own circumstances with some wisdom about how to make things better. > If we did not have the people willing to do the jobs > the well off consider beneath them, society would be > up shit creek, literally. I'm reminded of so many white men who bitch about Hispanics or Asians or blacks taking jobs from them, which often turn out to be jobs the white men never wanted in the first place. Not too long ago one of my bosses was complaining about all the "morons" in customer service these days. I reminded him that we need "morons," or who would wait on us at places like McDonald's? I didn't mean "morons" in the literal sense, of course, nor do I mean to slam people who work in the fast-food industry. But we go to places like that expecting the same service we receive at a fine restaurant, and get pissed off when the staff is (mentally and physically) slow. However, you can't get "good" people to work in those jobs for minimum wage, or for long. "You get what you pay for." Marcel, you wrote to me privately that minimum wage jobs are supposed to be a "stepping stone" from adolescence and not a career. That's not always the case. MANY people will do no better because they CAN'T. Remember my recent tale of the dim-bulb renter-from-hell? She was 26 years old and had worked at the same Burger King for 6 years as counter help and was PROUD of her job. She wasnt ever going to rise to even Assistant Manager; she just didnt have the smarts. So if you're less gifted, you should grovel at the bottom of the heap all of your life? I'm not saying counter help should earn $20 an hour, but there has to be a better alternative than the way things are now. > Teachers and nurses, are also absolutely vital to us > yet they too are low paid. Oh god, don't even get me started. I work at an education reform think tank, and one of the things we argue about is teacher pay. In this land of standards-based reform, I believe in merit pay, but I also believe teachers have NEVER been paid what they're worth. (Im in the minority with that notion.) Public schools want teachers to have a Master's degree at minimum, yet they want to pay them only $30-$40K a year. Give me a break. After going to all the trouble and expense of earning a Master's degree, I sure as hell wouldn't want to make that little AND risk my life teaching in an urban school, either! (Thank goodness that different methods of teacher certification are now being explored.) This country has depended upon "a sense of calling" to fulfill certain professions for far too long. This also applies to the military, another group who has been forever underpaid. We take advantage of people who feeling a sense of calling or duty to teach, heal, protect. Then they get burned out and we act surprised and/or offended. How dare they? > they, should try a little gratitude for their good > fortune and luck. And that DOES apply to those who > feel they earned it by working themselves thru school > into their good well apid careers. The should thank > God that they had the abiltiy to do it! > > Gratitude goes a long way to creating happiness and > a compassionate understanding of others. Do people > really think they are well off because they are > worth more? How pathetic. How sad. What self deciet. > What arrogance. Very true words, Colin. Thank you for putting it so well. Lori in DC . Yahoo! Photos - Share your holiday photos online! http://photos.yahoo.com/ ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 11 Jan 2001 17:44:43 +0000 From: catman Subject: Re: Lori's Long Rant NJC "Lori R. Fye" wrote: I'm reminded of so many white men who bitch about Hispanics or Asians or blacks taking jobs from them, which often turn out to be jobs the white men never wanted in the first place. We get the same hear about all the local corner shops and newsagnest being run by 'pakis'(people form Pakistan or India-they are too thick to know the difference). These shops are open very long hours and have to take all sorts of risks, according to the area. The people(white) complaining about them not only use the shops but wouldn't ever want to work the hours to run one! But know they are not intelligent enough to figure that out. Besides, they only want someone to blame for their lot. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 11 Jan 2001 17:48:34 +0000 From: catman Subject: sexual dysfunction NJC This is a serious reuest and if any one answers please do so privately and in earnest. Any mails woill remain private. I want to hear from any man, middle aged or more, who experienced a drop in libido and sexual dysfunction related to stress or mid life crisis etc. I would like to understand this problem. For me stress and feeling low increases my libido and the need for closeness and affection. I don;t undertsand the opposite reaction. - -- bw colin colin@tantra.fsbusiness.co.uk http://www.geocities.com/tantra_apso/index.html ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 11 Jan 2001 13:24:39 EST From: SCJoniGuy@aol.com Subject: Re: delayed greeting NJC Welcome, Christopher! I like your e-mail address, reminds me of the Tom Seaver poster I had on my wall when I was a Mets fan in the 'miracle' era. Then I started getting into music, and the sports kind of faded into the gray! :~) Looking forward to hearing more from you... Bob NP(Now Playing): Richard Isen, "Willie" ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 11 Jan 2001 13:32:08 -0500 From: "Diane Evans" Subject: Re: Portland JMDL group gathering? Hey, Rev! Now, it would be great to see a Midwest (any where) gathering! But, could we include the *rest* of the midwestern states? :-D Diane, In Indiana >If this Portland gathering is held in Portland, Michigan, it would be >only 45 minutes from me, and all the Michigan and Ohio people could come >too! Just a thought... > >(the Rev) Vince _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 11 Jan 2001 10:55:41 -0800 From: jan gyn Subject: Re: Theremin (NJC) At 08:21 AM 1/11/01 -0800, Steve Dulson wrote: >Hello all! > >Has anyone seen this movie? It'a bio of the inventor of the first (?) >electronic instrument. Wow! Caught it on Sundance channel last >night (before Jazz) - it's really amazing. I had no idea about >who Leon Theremin was, or his really bizarre life story. It's a >great, quite moving film, so catch or rent it when you get the chance! >There is a truly frightening interview with Brian Wilson...I hear he >is much better now (the movie was made in '94). Also much footage >of Robert Moog, who credits Theremin with inspiring his synthesizer. > >Back to work... A guy in my band bought one of those things a few years back directly from the Moogster hisself. Through an Echoplex it's like total 'Forbidden Planet'. - -jan ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 11 Jan 2001 14:18:15 -0500 From: dsk Subject: Joni photo [was nyc jmdl gathering tonight!] Alison E wrote: > information on the show, location and cost are below. > please feel free to attend if you are a lurker or > seldom-poster. we would love to have you! > i made a reservation for 6, and it looks like we only > have four right now. > thanks, and see ya there. > alison e. > > Fez (Under Time Cafe) > 18.00 (cash only) > show starts at 9:30, we are meeting at 8:30 > 380 Lafayette St (at great jones st) > New York, NY 10003 > Phone: (212) 533-7000 > http://www.feznyc.com/ I second Alison's invite. And, for those too far from the center of the universe to attend (ok, so I'm being an obnoxious New Yorker), there's a very dramatic photo of Joni when she played at the Fez. Click on the link above and go to History & Photos. What a great time that would have been... Joni and guitar from 25 feet away at the most!!! No wonder Chrissie Hynde was so excited. See you guys soon. Debra Shea ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 11 Jan 2001 14:56:40 -0500 (EST) From: "Duane J. Corpis" Subject: political rantings (njc) Kakki wrote: >But it's been a Supreme Court decision that has been in place for almost 30 >years. It is well-established case law. Even with a conservative majority >on the Supreme Court, I still cannot see them messing with this, if for no >other reason than it would be highly controversial, provoke riots, provoke >calls for their impeachment, threats to their well-being and so on. You may >not think some conservatives are very enlightened but they are not that >stupid, especially at the Supreme Court level. During the presidential primaries, I was taking trip to North Carolina, where I saw a broadcast of Bush in South Carolina at a press conference. At the press conference, he asked a woman who worked at a local "clinic" to stand up and discuss the kind of business she ran. She explained that she was at a pro-life clinic, one which served the "Word of God" by delivering the message of Jesus Christ to women who might otherwise opt for abortion. Bush then explained that his policy of compassionate conservatism would aim to provide government support to such "clinics." Now, I'm not about to say that someone should be castigated simply for being pro-life. But government funds distributed to a pro-life Christian organization seems to be indicative not only of Bush's position on abortion, but also the position of the cronies he wants to appoint to his cabinet and (potentially) to the Supreme Court. It also seems to violate separation of church and state, but then Republicans have shown little concern for the constitutional import of this part of the Bill of Rights. Kakki, you've mentioned in several of your posts that maybe you are just being naive for giving Bush, et al., the benefit of the doubt, and though you have proven yourself time and time again to be a fair-minded, articulate commentator, I think on this subject, you really are being naive. Several "state's rights" decisions from the Supreme Court even under Clinton have destroyed aspects of civil right's law that have been on the books and had been ratified in past court decisions for decades. Also, remember that Plessy v. Ferguson, the court case sanctioning separate but equal school systems, had been around since 1896 and was only overturned by Brown v. Board of Education. Thank goodness that sometimes the courts act with bold, deliberative strokes! But if you are pro-choice, you should be aware that Reverend Vince's warning about the Supreme Court becoming more conservative is real. The Brown v. Board justices were also subject to popular resistance, violence, and threats. But it is precisely because the Supreme Court is ultimately above and beyond popular review and accountability that makes it such a powerful part of the government. YOU need to prove to ME that policy can't change overnight, because history shows that in fact it can. And indeed, the Republican party in general wants to change certain policies, including the legality of abortion, so what makes you think that between Bush, Ashcroft, and a potential sea change in the Supreme Court that Roe v. Wade won't be overturned? - --Duane ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 11 Jan 2001 17:48:14 -0300 From: "Wally Kairuz" Subject: RE: sexual dysfunction NJC colin, i am serious now, please believe me! i would like to participate in this discussion. it is a topic i've been giving a lot of thought. can we create a private discussion ring? wally -----Mensaje original----- De: owner-joni@jmdl.com [mailto:owner-joni@jmdl.com]En nombre de catman Enviado el: Jueves, 11 de Enero de 2001 02:49 p.m. Para: joni Asunto: sexual dysfunction NJC This is a serious reuest and if any one answers please do so privately and in earnest. Any mails woill remain private. I want to hear from any man, middle aged or more, who experienced a drop in libido and sexual dysfunction related to stress or mid life crisis etc. I would like to understand this problem. For me stress and feeling low increases my libido and the need for closeness and affection. I don;t undertsand the opposite reaction. - -- bw colin colin@tantra.fsbusiness.co.uk http://www.geocities.com/tantra_apso/index.html ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 11 Jan 2001 15:55:19 -0500 From: hessj@ix.netcom.com Subject: Re: Theremin (NJC) I came home *after* "Theramin" was on Sundance, and was highly disappointed. Checked the Sundance web page, though, and saw that it's coming up again: Sunday, January 28 4:30 AM Monday, January 29 9:00 PM These times seem to be Eastern. Often I find that Sundance shows an indie film right after I've rented it; this is one time I noticed that Sundance is actually showing something I've *planned* to rent. Glad to know it's worth catching, and I hope this may help others catch it, too. Cheerz, Janet and Deanna Ivy the Wonderkitty, one of whom seems somewhat more called to the Theramin than the other (no names, please) ;) Steve Dulson wrote: > Hello all! Has anyone seen this movie? It'a bio of the inventor of the first (?) electronic instrument. Wow! Caught it on Sundance channel last night (before Jazz) - it's really amazing. I had no idea about who Leon Theremin was, or his really bizarre life story. It's a great, quite moving film, so catch or rent it when you get the chance! There is a truly frightening interview with Brian Wilson...I hear he is much better now (the movie was made in '94). Also much footage of Robert Moog, who credits Theremin with inspiring his synthesizer. Back to work... - -- ######################################################## Steve Dulson Costa Mesa CA steve@psitech.com "The Tinker's Own" http://www.tinkersown.com "Southern California Dulcimer Heritage" http://members.aol.com/scdulcimer/ "The Living Tradition Concert Series" http://www.thelivingtradition.org/ ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 11 Jan 2001 15:55:51 EST From: SMEBD@aol.com Subject: Re: Chavez (NJC) In a message dated 1/10/01 4:19:04 PM Eastern Standard Time, jlamadoo@home.com writes: > I think most of the American people were upset during the Zok Baird > >> nomination that she had hired an illegal alien. That was what upset them > >> more than the fact that she did not pay Social Security taxes." > > That's not an attack at all. She's guessing at what the public found > objectionable. Now maybe she actually did say something critical but the > That Chavez was fiercely critical of Z. Baird is a matter of public record. This is not disputable. The Times quote is making the point that if the American people, as Chavez asserted, were upset that Baird hired an illegal alien, then the American people have the right to be just as upset over Chavez hiring/housing an illegal alien. And if Baird was opposed for this reason, shouldn't Chavez be opposed for a similar reason. The quote points out that "what is good for the goose is good for the gander." Stephen ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 11 Jan 2001 15:07:01 -0600 From: jonifan@clearsong.com Subject: RE: rufus NJC >>Richard's voice, on the >>otherhand, is very soothing and on the money every time. >>Check it out for yourself at www.clearsongs.com Thanks Bob- But the url is http://www.clearsong.com - only one song but actually there's more at the site :) Richard ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 11 Jan 2001 16:06:58 EST From: FMYFL@aol.com Subject: Re: Covers, Volume #13 (Long) Just got my Covers Vol. #13 in the mail today, and have been listening to it all afternoon. Bob, no wonder you were so excited about this one. I think it's the best compilation of all the covers so far, and there's no cheese to be found!!! I already had Shawn Colvin's "River" and Bette Midler's "Twisted" which are wonderful. As for the rest of the CD, all of the songs are great especially since there's no Dave Van Ronk (sorry Bob Murphy :~) ) My other favorites were Chaka Khan's "Man from Mars" and the 3 songs performed by Lydia Van Dam. (Muller, I can see why you'd want to marry Lydia.) Wow, what a voice this lady has. As for David Hay's "Chinese Cafe", I could picture Michael Bolton singing this song now, and I'm NOT a Bolton fan at all. So folks, if you don't have any of the Cover's CD's at least frickin get this one. Thank you so much Bob, and thanks to all of the JMDL contributors. Jimmy, who plans on making an entire CD of only "BSN" covers to drive my office crazy :~) ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 11 Jan 2001 13:27:17 -0800 From: "Kakki" Subject: Re: political rantings (njc) Duane wrote: > Now, I'm not about to say that someone should be castigated simply for > being pro-life. But government funds distributed to a pro-life > Christian organization seems to be indicative not only of Bush's position > on abortion, but also the position of the cronies he wants to appoint to > his cabinet and (potentially) to the Supreme Court. It also seems to > violate separation of church and state, but then Republicans have shown > little concern for the constitutional import of this part of the Bill of > Rights. The longer I live, the less I am likely to second-guess someone's statements. I have to evaluate subsequent statements and actions before I'm likely to make a final judgment. From what you've related, how do you know just what he meant by "support?" Maybe he meant a type of "moral support" and not actual government funding. Also, I would not necessarily call this a violation of church and state unless that clinic is owned or run by a church. At any rate, it is unclear what exactly Bush has in mind here. > Also, remember that Plessy v. Ferguson, the court case sanctioning > separate but equal school systems, had been around since 1896 and was only > overturned by Brown v. Board of Education. Thank goodness that sometimes > the courts act with bold, deliberative strokes! But if you are > pro-choice, you should be aware that Reverend Vince's warning about the > Supreme Court becoming more conservative is real. The Brown v. Board > justices were also subject to popular resistance, violence, and threats. > But it is precisely because the Supreme Court is ultimately above and > beyond popular review and accountability that makes it such a powerful > part of the government. YOU need to prove to ME that policy can't change > overnight, because history shows that in fact it can. But you have only cited one case in over a 100 years. It is also a case that is not on point as far as the law regarding abortion. Maybe some need to prove to me, by showing me a collection of actual statements, where a majority of Republicans currently in positions of power have vowed to overturn Roe v. Wade. Then I would consider this "threat" something to seriously think about. > And indeed, the Republican party in general wants to change certain policies, including > the legality of abortion, so what makes you think that between Bush, > Ashcroft, and a potential sea change in the Supreme Court that Roe v. Wade > won't be overturned? There is a thought I have not wanted to share on this because it's kind of creepy and controversial to state it, at least to me. I have heard a number of Republicans and also a few Democrats smirk at the thought that Republicans would ever want to outlaw abortion. The reason? Abortion helps reduce the amount of welfare and other social services money spent by the government. Like I said, kind of creepy, but also thought-provoking. I suppose I am "Pro-Choice" because I think it's a woman's personal business. However, I wish the government did not have to be involved in this issue at all. I hate that something that is so individual and personal has been such a loud and sometimes exploited political issue for so long. I hate that it has all kinds of other things attached to it like personal choice in religion and so on. It seems like some people have to be ashamed of their personal religion if that religion is anti-abortion or they are attacked if their religious beliefs are "politically incorrect." It drags peoples' personal religious beliefs into the political dialogue. Just as many are militantly vigilant against separation of church and state, I think that the flip side of the coin is almost a sort of persecution and demonizing of certain religious groups. That is also a bit creepy to me and I trust you can imagine why. Kakki ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 11 Jan 2001 16:34:21 EST From: SCJoniGuy@aol.com Subject: RE: rufus <> D'oh! I actually saw that I had screwed that up when I saw the post, so I figured you'd jump in and correct me. Thanks for doing so... Question: What made you decide to record Willy, out of all the possible choices? You've performed lots of Joni's songs in concert, right? Was it just that Willy fits in with the overall atmosphere of the record as a whole? Bob NP: The Alarm, "Rain In The Summertime" ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 11 Jan 2001 13:35:39 -0800 From: "BRIAN SYMES" Subject: yellow taxi drive thru ghostly garden I think Sheldon's essay is exactly how i think too about JM ouvre its just i am one slow typin fool. So i like to keep my dotmails shorter. After watching KB's JAZZ it hit me Sidney B and and Kenny G play the same Sax the Former poured whikey down his, Decaf Starbuck's with honey down the former. NP West End Blues Louis Armstrong - ----------------------- Free Email Service provided to you by Office.com, a service from Winstar ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 11 Jan 2001 14:19:00 -0800 From: "Kakki" Subject: Re: John McVie (NJC) Hell, Someone referred me to an article from Rolling Stone yesterday which covered FM's surprise "Goodbye" concert to Clinton. They interviewed Lindsay Buckingham about it and he said something to the effect that even though McVie is a "staunch Republican, " McVie viewed the performance for Clinton as "just another gig." I was just kidding around yesterday with regard to people throwing out their albums because of a musician's political beliefs (although some people do feel strongly about doing this - I've heard there are some on the Van list that are ready to denounce him because he is performing for Bush). It don't matter to me - music is my ultimate "political belief" ;-) Kakki ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 11 Jan 2001 17:26:44 -0500 (EST) From: Al Date Subject: NJC--Just say NO to Ashcroft... As you've probably read in mainstream news accounts, former US Senator John Ashcroft (R-MO) has been nominated by President- Elect George W. Bush for the office of Attorney General. DRCNet, as a nonpartisan organization devoted strictly to drug policy reform, is opposing the Ashcroft nomination because of his record as one of the most hawkish drug warriors supporting some of the most extreme drug war legislation during his tenure in the Senate. We are writing to ask you to visit a web site we've set up to encourage grassroots opposition to the Ashcroft nomination -- http://www.StopJohnAshcroft.org -- and to use the information and the online petitions there to help defeat this nomination while there's still time. - ----------------------------------------------- FREE! The World's Best Email Address @email.com Reserve your name now at http://www.email.com ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 11 Jan 2001 14:46:27 -0800 From: jan gyn Subject: Re: John McVie (NJC) (snip) >I was just kidding around yesterday with regard to people throwing out their >albums because of a musician's political beliefs (although some people do >feel strongly about doing this - I've heard there are some on the Van list >that are ready to denounce him because he is performing for Bush). It don't >matter to me - music is my ultimate "political belief" ;-) > >Kakki I USED to like movies by Leni Riefenstahl, but no longer. But that's just me. - -jan ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 11 Jan 2001 18:24:36 -0500 From: "Paul Pennington" Subject: Borders Bargains Check out the bargain bin in your local Borders Store next time you're in there -- they have some good stuff for $7.95 for a change: Joni, along with Linda Ronstadt, Emmyhair Louis (sorry), and Neil Young, among others. Paul Pennington Augusta, Georgia ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 11 Jan 2001 15:41:28 -0800 From: Randy Remote Subject: Re: Politics and religion (NJC) Great post, Clark. A couple short comments: CarltonCT@aol.com wrote: > I don't think Gore is a born again Baptist, any more than Clinton is. I > suspect both men are religious skeptics The media reported during Gore's campaign that he had aggressively renewed his faith in the recent past,and is a born-again Southern Baptist. Whether he would have imposed his religious values upon his office, had he been elected, is unknown. However, Gore made it clear that he was behind Leiberman's pet project to beef up mandatory ratings- maybe even some sort of censorship-in the entertainment industry, also a long standing crusade for Tipper Gore. The allusions to this issue seemed to stem from concerns that are not that far from the religious right; God and family. > As I mentioned in a previous > post, one of the ideas of the Reagan years that made me genuinely ill was > Reagan's personal belief that the Rapture was coming soon. Reagan believed > we didn't need to worry about exploiting the environment as Jesus was coming > soon to straighten out everything and recreate the world order for a thousand > years of peace. Funny, I was just thinking about that this morning. Reagan believed he was going to be presiding over the apocalypse, which would be global nuclear war. James Watt was convinced of the same. Religious fanaticism combined with the awesome powers of the upper government is a wee bit dangerous. In the Rolling Stone interview with Gore this summer, the reporter notes that there is a guy with Gore at all times that carries the "football", an electronic device capable of launching nuclear war by remote control. I don't really feel comfortable letting anyone have that kind of power. RR ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 11 Jan 2001 18:46:18 EST From: RoseMJoy@aol.com Subject: Re: Joni photo [was nyc jmdl gathering tonight!] In a message dated 1/11/01 2:28:08 PM Eastern Standard Time, dsk11@bellatlantic.net writes: << I second Alison's invite. And, for those too far from the center of the universe to attend (ok, so I'm being an obnoxious New Yorker), there's a very dramatic photo of Joni when she played at the Fez. Click on the link above and go to History & Photos. What a great time that would have been... Joni and guitar from 25 feet away at the most!!! No wonder Chrissie Hynde was so excited. >> Oh I wish I could have had more advance notice. I would have loved to have joined you guys! Nikki who usually joins me in these outings is on her way to sunny California right now. Rose in NJ ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 11 Jan 2001 21:12:22 -0500 From: "Jim L'Hommedieu" Subject: Success has gone to his.... retirement account. NJC, Long Over on the Cowboy Junkies message board, we were discussing a mysterious detail of their 2nd album, "The Trinity Session". Yesterday Mike Timmins himself (sole songwriter, guitarist and guiding light of the band) signed onto the board and answered our question. I hope when all of you JMDL artists get your recognition, that you guys & girls stay as cool as you are now. As cool as Mike and Margo. Long live rock. Lamadoo PS- At last word, the next CJ album has been mixed but not sequenced. Cross your fingers. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 11 Jan 2001 21:18:33 -0500 From: "Jim L'Hommedieu" Subject: Colvin's "Steady On", NJC np: Shawn Colvin's "Steady On" album sample verse: "I was feeling.... imploded: A wooden smile, a wooden heart. Then things exploded - like rockets in the dark. Now I'm pulling..... out splinters. I'm off to hibernate somewhere For a nuclear winter of another love affair. Cause he seemed like a mir-a-cle. I ate it up like.... cer-e-al. But it was something like... shrapnel." S. Colvin / J. Leventhal c-1989 Pretty neat, huh? And it sings even better than it reads. And that's not even my favorite song on the album! This album sounds fan-damn-tastic (on used, cut-out LP no less!). Cost? $4 USD. This is less than 1/3 of what a new CD of this title would cost, with worse sound and smaller pictures. Sheesh. I am not a Luddite. I am not a Luddite. I am not a Luddite. Lama ------------------------------ End of JMDL Digest V2001 #15 **************************** ------- Post messages to the list by clicking here: mailto:joni@smoe.org Unsubscribe by clicking here: mailto:joni-digest-request@smoe.org?body=unsubscribe ------- Siquomb, isn't she?