From: les@jmdl.com (JMDL Digest) To: joni-digest@smoe.org Subject: JMDL Digest V2001 #12 Reply-To: joni@smoe.org Sender: les@jmdl.com Errors-To: les@jmdl.com Precedence: bulk Unsubscribe: mailto:joni-digest-request@smoe.org?body=unsubscribe Archives: http://www.smoe.org/lists/joni Websites: http://www.jmdl.com http://www.jonimitchell.com JMDL Digest Wednesday, January 10 2001 Volume 2001 : Number 012 The 'Official' Joni Mitchell Homepage, created by Wally Breese, can be found at http://www.jonimitchell.com. It contains the latest news, a detailed bio, Original Interviews, essays, lyrics and much much more. The JMDL website can be found at http://www.jmdl.com and contains interviews, articles, the member gallery, archives, and much more. ========== TOPICS and authors in this Digest: -------- RE: political sniping content NJC, Long ["Jim L'Hommedieu" ] **Portland JMDL group gathering? [RK1THXguy@aol.com] Re: political sniping content NJC (md) [MDESTE1@aol.com] The president-elect's cabinet picks (NJC) [Yael Harlap ] Re: a decent tv night (now some Joni) [SCJoniGuy@aol.com] Re: The president-elect's cabinet picks (NJC) ["Kakki" ] Re: NJC / VLJC Hello (again) [Michael Paz ] Re: harvey head - njc [Michael Paz ] Re: "Jazz", Thoughts on episode 1 'Gumbo'.... NJC [Michael Paz ] Re: Ken Burns' Jazz (NJC) [Steve Dulson ] joni in poetrymagazine.com [sheldon tanner ] Re: Richard Isen & "Willie" [jonifan@clearsong.com] Re: Joni/Thom Yorke NJC [Scott and Jody ] Re: [sf_indie] righteous axe [jan gyn ] Re: joni in poetrymagazine.com [SCJoniGuy@aol.com] RE: Political sniping content (NJC) ["Pitassi, Mary" ] LONG RANT - Re: The president-elect's cabinet picks (NJC) ["Lori R. Fye" ] ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Wed, 10 Jan 2001 03:07:21 -0500 From: "Jim L'Hommedieu" Subject: RE: political sniping content NJC, Long Kakki, I think that you're sarcastically saying that there's no honeymoon for Dubya and the Democrats are being predatory even before the swearing in ceremony. (Right? I don't see sarcasm from you very often so I may be mis-judging.) Don't know much about politics so I'm going to sound like naive. Why would the Democrats savage Chavez because she helped an illegal immigrant? Surely the Democrats have a soft spot for people of color newly arriving in America? Or is this just partisan politics? "We don't like Chavez, so we'll get her if we can?" Or is it simply, "We are sore cause we lost the White House so we are going to ream Dubya every chance we get." The CNN page has Chavez quoted saying, "I'm only the first person," Chavez said. "I can tell you (attorney general nominee) John Ashcroft is going to face much worse than I have. Gale Norton (the interior secretary nominee) may face worse than I have. Even Christine Todd Whitman (nominated to head the Environmental Protection Agency), who is considered a moderate, may face worse than I have." Is she saying that they also have skeletons in their closets or that the Democrats are out to savage as many of Bush'es nominees as possible? Or both? If everyone on Bush'es team gives up as easily as Chavez did, he won't have a cabinet. Where is the wisdom in giving up? Chavez also said that the Bush transition team continually told her to stay away from the press- i.e.. Don't defend yourself. I don't get it. We have Dubya saying yesterday that he expected some "withering questions" in the confirmation process and that he's confident that all of his folks will get through the withering questions. Today, he accepts her resignation?? Why accept her resignation when you could say, "Hang in there. We believe in you. Now's not the time to quit." ?? From the CNN page, Ms. Chavez also said no one from the Bush team asked her to leave, "But I've also been around this town long enough to know that when nobody is calling you and saying, 'Hang in there,' that isn't a great signal either," Chavez said. Is it typical for a new president to abandon his people so early in the process? I remember we heard about Bork for weeks. Thanks, Jim ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 10 Jan 2001 00:24:31 -0800 From: "Kakki" Subject: Re: political sniping content NJC, Long Lama wrote: > I think that you're sarcastically saying that there's no honeymoon for Dubya > and the Democrats are being predatory even before the swearing in ceremony. > (Right? I don't see sarcasm from you very often so I may be mis-judging.) There will certainly be no honeymoon - how can there be when there wasn't even one good first date? ;-) Because of the Florida situation, he wasn't even allowed a celebration party. I don't mean to sound sarcastic, but I do feel sincerely cynical about the whole process in light of everything I've witnessed the past few months. Although, my cynicism toward politics goes way back many years in general. Years ago I had a position working as a public relations/government relations representative for a large government contractor. The position did have its' share of excitement because I got to meet many senators, members of congress, a president and some of the more famous news media personalities. However, the experience was also a huge eye-opener as to the supposed "goodness" of one party or the other. My experience showed me that not only were there really bad rats on both sides, but most of them really seem to be in it for themselves first and foremost, and not in it for their country, as we have idealistically been encouraged to believe. I was left with absolutely no illusions after dealing with those people. Nonetheless, I've always been somewhat of a Pollyanna, so I still hold out some hope here and there. We have to, don't we? As for Bush not standing up for Chavez more strongly, that is something that appears to be angering many Republicans now. Well, they should hold on to their seats, because the turbulence has just begun! Kakki ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 10 Jan 2001 04:13:21 -0500 From: "Jim L'Hommedieu" Subject: "Jazz" Wednesday Night too, NJC When it rains it pours. No that won't due. This isn't "rain" at all. Good things come in threes. Anyway, don't rent a movie tonight. Ken Burns' documentary "Jazz", is on again. Tonight it's Episode 3, "Our Language", covering 1924 - 1928. To say that I'm enjoying this is another understatement. Remember the scene in Cameron Crowe's movie "Almost Famous", when he bumps into the Zeppelin fan in New York City? The guy just keeps saying: "It's all happening!" Lama PS- You can jump into this series anywhere and still get something. If you missed episode 2, (1917-1924) Edward Kennedy Ellington left the dizzying variety of social groups in Washington D.C. for New York. He was such a natty dresser that he acquired the nickname, "The Duke". (I learned that Harlem is almost next to Manhattan, separated only by Central Park.) Blacks and whites were not integrated in bands yet. The white king of Jazz in NY (Paul Whiteman) and the black king of Jazz in NY (Fletcher Henderson) traded arrangements and played after hours, after the speakeasies closed. Louis Armstrong was being coaxed to leave King Oliver's band in Chicago by his new wife, Lil Harden. She wanted her husband to play first chair instead of supporting King Oliver. At the end of the episode, Louis Armstrong brought his Nawlins / Chicago experience to Fletcher Henderson's band in New York and started backing up vocalists on recording dates. After listening to the Whiteman band for a long time, Gershwin incorporated Jazz elements into a new piece called "Rhapsody In Blue". Is this all cool or what? ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 10 Jan 2001 04:42:29 EST From: RK1THXguy@aol.com Subject: **Portland JMDL group gathering? To my Rose City Brothers & Sisters in Joni - BRIAN SYMES writes: << Hey it sounds like Portlandia has a micro brewing JM group: RK1/SteveB/Penny) 2-2 at the Roseland sounds good tome good for me >> I would enjoy meeting you all, but 2/2 will find me in the 'city by the bay', SanFran, visiting with my beautiful daughter. I also understand that we may number even more than 4 - so every JMDLer who lives anywhere in the shadows of Mt. Hood, 'I'm sending you out this signal here' - let's organize a nice casual meeting someplace where we can swap stories, tell lies, compare the scars we're most proud of, have a few swings at the meaning of life, take a turn or two more in the BoHo dance, and try to get a little closer to the bottom of this strange affliction we all seem to share (and which seems to generate moments of real joy from time to time). I certainly hope there is at least one other old fart among us locals - besides yours truly. I was already socially mobile, sexually active, philosophically enlightened, and mind expanded when Joan was still Ms. Anderson, in the TBJ (time before Joni). If I am the senior of the group, just remember - history has taught us that the elders of the tribe represent a vast sea of knowledge, a deep reservoir of wisdom, and a huge fountain of bullshit! I will expect to be received accordingly. ;-) ...Rob ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 10 Jan 2001 07:51:46 EST From: MDESTE1@aol.com Subject: Re: political sniping content NJC (md) The destruction of Linda Chavez for what she did for that woman and in fact many others is perhaps the most disgusting thing I have ever seen it would appear to violate virtually every belief of the liberals and the Democrats. That is if they had beliefs as opposed to an agenda. While Clinton takes bows and the Democrats cheer for pardoning a million illegal aliens (now obviously simply a vote harvest) Linda Chavez is Borked and viciously attacked. Just to highlight the hypocracy I include exerpts from this article from 1993 (all facts since confirmed). Truth hurts my friends: Bill and Hillary at the Trough By Lisa Schiffren << Subject: The president-elect's cabinet picks (NJC) Kakki wrote, of Ashcroft and the current political situation... >I really don't know much about him and I'm sure you know a lot more being >from his state. But all the hand-wringing over Bush's picks may be much ado >about nothing in the end. My dark and cynical prediction is that most all >of the Bush picks will be hounded out by his political enemies, and the >ones, if any, that remain standing will be nicked and smeared on a constant >basis for the next four years. But Kakki, that is exactly the same thing that happened to Clinton, exactly! No honeymoon period, and his nominees faced grueling grilling and nit-picking, and he and his people were nicked and smeared for most of 8 years. Not to support Clinton, who I don't particularly like (though he has said some things that I admire, at least in the spirit of them)... but to point out that the game has been around for a while, and it is not fair to look askance at the Dems for it. I know you were decrying the practice in general, and not just the Dems, but I definitely sensed a disgust with Democrats on this issue, and really so far the Republicans have been very active at it - Kimba Wood as nominee, and others, Whitewater (which went on forever) and the Lewinsky thing, which, wrongful behavior as it was, certainly went on much longer than necessary, politically speaking. (Since when have we hounded presidents for their extramarital affairs? Not that it is right, but, really. Those people should get the damn beams out of their own eyes first). But on the other hand, don't forget that in some of these cases, there may be actual good reasons why they will be pushed out, such as a history of making statements that throw into question the person's ability to perform their role. For example, will Ashcroft, as attorney general, be committed to upholding the law that keeps people from bombing and hounding abortion clinics? Whether or not one is pro-choice or anti-choice, it is important to uphold the law... Just as an example. - -Yael ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 10 Jan 2001 08:22:38 -0500 From: Jerry Notaro Subject: Re: cdbaby.com and so on cdbaby also hosts the wonderful Michael Holland who does a fab A Case of You on Volume 12 Covers and Contributions. Jerry ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 10 Jan 2001 08:40:41 EST From: SCJoniGuy@aol.com Subject: Re: a decent tv night (now some Joni) <> Sure would be, Kakki! Keep us posted...I rely on you for CSN and sometimes Y connections! ;~) Bob ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 10 Jan 2001 05:59:57 -0800 From: "Kakki" Subject: Re: The president-elect's cabinet picks (NJC) Yael asked: > But Kakki, that is exactly the same thing that happened to Clinton, > exactly! No honeymoon period, and his nominees faced grueling grilling and > nit-picking, and he and his people were nicked and smeared for most of 8 > years. Not to support Clinton, who I don't particularly like (though he has > said some things that I admire, at least in the spirit of them)... but to > point out that the game has been around for a while, and it is not fair to > look askance at the Dems for it. I don't think it is a comparable comparison at all. But to get into why would take up way too much bandwidth here. > I know you were decrying the practice in general, and not just the Dems, > but I definitely sensed a disgust with Democrats on this issue, and really > so far the Republicans have been very active at it - Kimba Wood as nominee, > and others, I thought it was the Dems who went after Kimba Wood. >Whitewater (which went on forever) Where many associates of Bill and Hillary were indicted and imprisoned. Real crimes tried and proven. > and the Lewinsky thing, > which, wrongful behavior as it was, certainly went on much longer than > necessary, politically speaking. (Since when have we hounded presidents for > their extramarital affairs? Not that it is right, but, really. Those people > should get the damn beams out of their own eyes first). This is one that I tire of arguing. All I can say is that to myself and many others it was not about having an extra martial affair, but that is how it has continued to be portrayed. If it is not apparent what it was about there is no point in trying to explain it. > But on the other hand, don't forget that in some of these cases, there may > be actual good reasons why they will be pushed out, such as a history of > making statements that throw into question the person's ability to perform > their role. For example, will Ashcroft, as attorney general, be committed > to upholding the law that keeps people from bombing and hounding abortion > clinics? Whether or not one is pro-choice or anti-choice, it is important > to uphold the law... Just as an example. I've been reading both sides of the slant on Ashcroft and there is much that is compelling on both sides of the argument. Like I said, I know next to nothing about him. However, I simply don't buy all the ruckus that because someone is personally against abortion, that they will somehow have some unilateral power to suddenly outlaw it. To suggest that someone who is personally anti-abortion would enable abortion clinic bombers in some way is just beyond comprehension to me. I also don't buy the ruckus that because someone is a religious fundamentalist, that they will have some unilateral power to force the whole country to adhere to their beliefs. I also find it ironic that no one ever mentions that the church-going Bill Clinton, Al Gore and Jesse Jackson all belong to the Southern Baptist demonmination - one of the oldest and largest fundamentalist religions in the U.S. So why isn't everyone afraid of how their religious affiliation will effect how they govern or use their influence in the U.S.? There are just too many contradictions and glaringly hypocritical postures in these arguments to persuade me. It also bothers me that some Democrats pride themselves as being the only party to champion the rights of minorities and women, that is, unless those minorities and women are members of the Republican party, and then they don't count, like Chavez and Powell. The same is true in Hollywood show biz - which prides itself as enlightened and liberal. But just try to get or keep a job in that industry if you don't, at least outwardly, follow a completely liberal agenda - you will go nowhere unless you already have the money or clout to survive. It's the same kind of blacklisting that occurred in the 50s but the shoe has been on the other foot for a much longer time. I just learned that Van Morrison is going to perform at Bush's inaguration and my first thought was not "how great" but rather, "oh no, now they are going to take down Van, too, gee, he sure has some guts." Just as a side note, I'm in no way either a religious fundmentalist or a real conservative, but I get very distrustful and wary of groups that continually promulgate notions that are illogical or false for the sake of gaining political advantage or power. I just think that at some point, people need to start looking at fellow Americans as just that, and not try to portray a good 50% of them as some horrifically evil menace that must be brought down or eliminated at any cost. Kakki ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 10 Jan 2001 08:54:27 EST From: SCJoniGuy@aol.com Subject: Re: political sniping content NJC, <> I agree with you...this whole thing is just a lowdown dirty rotten shame. I saw a photo in the paper this morning, Chavez resigning her nomination with what I assume was her husband & son behind her. Of course, I KNOW nothing but in my gut I felt like she was probably a GOOD person who just wasn't up to dragging her whole family through the muck that is now a part of holding a political office. Let's face it, NONE of us could hold any of these positions! Whether it's trafiic violations, or having someone come out of the shadows and talk about how drunk or high we got at a party x number of years ago, we could all be discredited and stripped in a matter of days, maybe less. The real tragedy is that the people with true talent & integrity no longer want any of these jobs because of all the BS that comes with them. Bob NP: Clarence "Gatemouth" Brown, "Cross My Heart" ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 10 Jan 2001 09:01:56 EST From: SCJoniGuy@aol.com Subject: Re: Joni/Thom Yorke NJC <> Thanks for posting Sarah, and welcome! (Don't know how long you've been lurking, but it's always great to hear new voices!) And I know what you mean...I can still hardly believe there's another person who shares my love for Joni, XTC, Tom Waits, even Stan Ridgway! (Hi Jody!) <> I would say not because Rufus was a MOST unpleasant listen for me...I didn't feel like he could hold a note in a paper sack. Richard's voice, on the other hand, is very soothing and on the money every time. Check it out for yourself at www.clearsongs.com Bob NP: Little Milton, "I Can't Quit You, Baby" ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 10 Jan 2001 09:13:19 EST From: SCJoniGuy@aol.com Subject: Re: #13 We Have a Digest Winner! Congrats to Stephen in Vancouver for being the first digester to correctly answer my all-too-easy Joni trivia question about Sammy Hagar (the horrible). The correct answers were: Both Sides Now Love or Money Thankfully these were originals and not attempts to infuse Joni's compositions with his limited talent...it might have spurred on to do "Cheese, Volume 2"! :~) Bob NP: Robert Nighthawk, "Anna Lee" PS: You know you're a real no-talent when you can even make somebody as awesome as Eddie Van Halen sound like shit! ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 10 Jan 2001 10:04:46 EST From: SMEBD@aol.com Subject: Chavez I know that I'll regret getting into this, but couldn't resist putting in my 2 cents. Personally I'm not as upset about the fact that Chavez may have done something illegal (housing an illegal alien; not paying SS taxes on her ), but am greatly offended by her hypocrisy. In the NY Times today there is an article that gives some background about Chavez that may account for the criticism that she received: > > >> On the other side, her critics noted that she often criticized President >> Clinton in her newspaper columns and was fiercely critical of his first >> nominee for attorney general, Zok Baird. Ms. Baird's appointment was >> sidetracked following disclosures that she employed an illegal immigrant >> as a nanny and had failed to pay Social Security taxes. >> Appearing on PBS's "MacNeil- Lehrer NewsHour" in December 1993, Ms. Chavez >> said: "I think most of the American people were upset during the Zok Baird >> nomination that she had hired an illegal alien. That was what upset them >> more than the fact that she did not pay Social Security taxes." >> Ms. Chavez said today that she felt Ms. Baird was treated unfairly. >> > When Clinton was President and it was a Democrat who was under consideration for a cabinet post, Chavez had one set of beliefs. When it is Bush and she is under consideration for a post, apparently those beliefs change. Seems self-serving to me. And yes, it is call POLITICS. Stephen ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 10 Jan 2001 09:19:03 -0800 From: Michael Paz Subject: Re: [sf_indie] righteous axe on 1/9/01 9:16 AM, jan gyn at jgyn@muse.sfusd.k12.ca.us wrote: > I wonder how it sounds through a Marshall, or with a VG8. > -jan > > http://www.gibson.com/whatsnew/pressrelease/2000/dec11a.html > Well Jan I have seen everything now. This would be just like an acoustic on a VG-8. You would hear too much of the acoustic sound over the alternate tuning sound. As far as the Marshall stack goes I think it would a bitch to keeping it from feeding back. Michael(at VG_8 headquarters) ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 10 Jan 2001 09:19:03 -0800 From: Michael Paz Subject: Re: NJC / VLJC Hello (again) on 1/7/01 8:20 PM, Gerald at geraldh@mb.sympatico.ca wrote: > Earlier this evening, I was listening to a piece I created about a year ago > on my computer with a program called, Mixman. It's a funky, "clubby" > sounding piece of music (which is a far stretch from my taste in music) with > phrases like; "Look! It's Joni Mitchell", and "Who's that?" What started as > a weekend afternoon experiment, became a humouresque poke at the contrast > between us Joni listeners, and those who respond to her name with, "Oh ya... > she did that `paved paradise' song." :-) I guess you'd have to hear the > piece, but I think most Joni fans would appreciate the humour. Maybe one day > I'll be able to put it on the web for others to hear. Hey Gerald- You ought to convert your file to a mp3 file and send it to the JoniMitchellFans@egroups.com site for us to check out. If your file is a wav. or aiff file you can find shareware programs on the internet to do this. Welcome back and don't be a stranger or a lurker. Best wishes. Michael NP-(You Never Can Tell) C'est la Vie-Emmylou Harris ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 10 Jan 2001 09:19:03 -0800 From: Michael Paz Subject: Re: harvey head - njc on 1/8/01 10:52 AM, Siresorrow@aol.com at Siresorrow@aol.com wrote: Hi Patrick- Still can NOT find anything by Radiohead that I like. I want to, but they just don't do it for me. I was hoping that they would come play in New Orleans and I could check them out live and maybe that would make a diff. So many of my friends (including folks right here at 2001 JMDL Avenue) love their stuff, but I'm still to young for them maybe??? > i picked up two radiohead cd's lately based on certain jmdlers and one > college kid who i'm very fond of who has a radiohead sticker on his bumper. > i did not like 'kid a' but did like 'ok computer'. last week when i drove > up state i listened to both cd's. i thought as i drove..kid a is like one > big song. you have to listen to it straight through and then it became like > pink floyd's dark side of the moon with a pearl jam twist. the pearl jam > twist was the the particular crunch of the one guitar. just the particular > sound is like pearl jam, not the style. it's a guitar player thing...you > hear a crunch and can identify with it to some other sound you've already > heard. Now Jann Arden is someone I REALLY like. Caught here a couple of years back at House of Blues and have dug her stuff ever since. Later Michael NP-Light Up Or Leave Me Alone-Traffic > np. jann arden - could i be your girl ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 10 Jan 2001 09:35:38 -0800 From: Michael Paz Subject: Re: "Jazz", Thoughts on episode 1 'Gumbo'.... NJC on 1/8/01 11:33 PM, Jim L'Hommedieu at jlamadoo@home.com wrote: > Ya know, > > Seeing New Orleans' own Branford Marsalis, and his big brother Wynton > Marsalis commenting on the early days of Jazz, (or Jass, as it was called > before it was recorded) turns this JMDLer's thoughts to another of Ellis > Marsalis'es sons: Jason Marsalis. Mister Jason Marsalis wrote out several > arrangements of songs by Joni. I believe he wrote a few "charts" (as we > hip, happenin', fledgling, self-depreciating, jazz fans say) exclusively for > a gig last Memorial Day weekend. It sure would be exciting to hear, > wouldn't it..... Marcel? Kakki? Les? Claud? Lori? Bob Murphy? Jerry? > Victor? Bern? Bob Muller? John? Pearl? Catgirl? Leslie? Steve? > Bryan? David? Everyone? > > I have a pile of money set aside to donate to my favorite charity in > exchange for a box set recording of Jason Marsalis and his fine band > performing one or more Joni songs along with many other fantastic > performances..... But maybe I'll just buy that Grammy-nominated Britney > Spears instead.... > > Maybe I should turn away from this idea that New Orleans is Mecca. Maybe I > should start buying N'Sync and catch up on what I've been missing. > > > Hmmmmmmm, > > Horschac's Mom > > (On the old TV show, "Welcome Back Kotter", when Horschac cut class, he'd > forge a letter from his Mom. Unfortunately, Horschac wasn't too bright- he > always signed it "Horschac's Mom". Now a music trivia question- who wrote > the song "Welcome Back" that played over the credits?) Dear Mrs. Horschac- I think you should invest in the new Britney AND the N'Sync cd's. I think you need to expand your musical horizons beyond this Joni woman or these Joni wannabes from New Orleans. Britney and N'Sync are two of MY current faves. Also New Orleans is NOT Mecca, but it is the centre of the known musical and culinary universe. And as many people as possible should make the trek (or Hejira if you like) here WHENEVER the chance arises. then Jerry wrote: >His group's performance of songs from Hissing was certainly a highlight for me. >Their reverence for her compositions, especially for them being so very young, >was awesome. I snuck backstage thanks to David Lahm and got to talk to Jason. >He is every bit as bright and talented as his brothers. I saw Jason at the Offbeat awards and he is thinking of doing many more arrangements of Joni tunes. I have also made arrangements to get him the roughs (as well as David Lahm) for their consideration for the project. The owner of Jason's labels wife Patti was killed over the holidays in a horrible car accident with the rest of the family. Everyone else is ok, but it was a terrible loss to the behind the scenes music community in New Orleans. then Jim "the Pestering Nag" wrote again: >Donning my asbestos suit in anticipation of a witty rejoinder from Mister >Paz tonight on the Jason Marsalis thread, >Jim L'Hommedieu Oh Jim I welcome (you drip) the encouragement and do not understand why you (festering pimple on the butt of procrastination) would ever feel that I would flame you (blah blah blah) for trying to help me get this project to market to raise more money for the foundation. Why would you think that? I welcome your support and thank you for continuing to bother me about this. Paz (off to one of my nine other jobs) ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 10 Jan 2001 08:00:04 -0800 From: Steve Dulson Subject: Mars? (NJC) IVPAUL asked: >What's your favorite song on Mars? To paraphrase Humphrey Bogart in Casablanca: "Ask me when I get there." :) - -- ######################################################## Steve Dulson Costa Mesa CA steve@psitech.com "The Tinker's Own" http://www.tinkersown.com "Southern California Dulcimer Heritage" http://members.aol.com/scdulcimer/ "The Living Tradition Concert Series" http://www.thelivingtradition.org/ ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 10 Jan 2001 08:04:22 -0800 From: Steve Dulson Subject: Re: Ken Burns' Jazz (NJC) Hi Alison! >They are good introductions to the artists themselves, >but probably not any better than any other "best of" >cd's you might find in your local store. although, if >you want to help pbs, buy these! I thought they might avoid the pitfall of being "Best of" the artist's work only on the particular label that is putting it out...if you see what I mean. Having a hard time forming coherent sentences this morning! >p.s. looking forward to meeting you next weekend (can >you believe it) in LA. Likewise, I'm sure! It'll great to see old Joni friends and meet new ones!!! - -- ######################################################## Steve Dulson Costa Mesa CA steve@psitech.com "The Tinker's Own" http://www.tinkersown.com "Southern California Dulcimer Heritage" http://members.aol.com/scdulcimer/ "The Living Tradition Concert Series" http://www.thelivingtradition.org/ ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 10 Jan 2001 09:33:45 -0800 (PST) From: sheldon tanner Subject: joni in poetrymagazine.com greetings all, i am new to this discussion (and honored, i might add, to be in such company) so please forgive if i'm repeating old news but . . . has anyone checked out will elliott's article in poetry magazine (http://www.poetrymagazine.com/archives/2000/June-July00/classicpoet6-00.htm) "jm-painting with words and music"? i was surprised to stumble upon it recently. cool article and refreshing to see mitchell getting well-deserved licks from the poetry establishment (even though in the course of the article she bites the hand that feeds her:)). somehow it helped validate my (in certain friends' opinions anyway)overly obsessive draw to one of the(in my opinion) greatest artists of our time. it contains lyrics, paintings and photos too. just road tripped from joshua tree to northern new mex with my xmas gift to self playing over and over and over: "dj'srd"--which i'd previously never heard but is my current favorite replacing, for the moment anyway, a scratchy old vinyl copy of hejeira that i found thrifting recently. "my best to (all of) you", sheldonjuan Yahoo! Photos - Share your holiday photos online! http://photos.yahoo.com/ ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 10 Jan 2001 11:53:04 -0600 From: jonifan@clearsong.com Subject: Re: Richard Isen & "Willie" I'm deeply grateful to Bob and encouraged by his insightful comments on my CD LET IT FALL. So I want to say hello to one and all on the list and add my own thoughts to Bob's. When I think of JM and all the vinyl records I wore out and new copies I had to buy, I realize that what's so compelling about all the work is her ability to be so intimate and truthful with us and how that somehow comes through the recordings - how it feels as if she's singing right to me and that I know her personally even though I don't. The LET IT FALL CD has been pushing around in my mind for almost a decade and there's lots of reasons- practical reasons and reasons of spirit - that it's taken me so long. And now that it's out, I start see how courageous JM really is. I'm thinking now about that word encourage which must mean "to give courage" and I suppose that is what all artists thrive on. About Willy/Willie- I was confused by that as well but the title Willie is how it is registered with the Library of Congress. The publisher and ASCAP list it that way as well with no alternative spelling so that's the official title from a legal standpoint. To find out more about LET IT FALL and to hear the cover of Willie, please visit http://www.clearsong.com/sounds (there's also an unreleased cover of Jericho slated for my next CD)- The sounds page has links to the internet radio stations and mp3.com where there a few CD quality MP3 files. The CD is available in many of the internet CD stores (cdbaby.com, amazon.com and many others) So- now this music is about you - kindred spirits in one way or another - and I hope you can take the time to listen in, leave a comment and perhaps even purchase a copy if you're so inclined. Also, please send me an e-mail. I do really want to hear from you. _____________________________________________ Richard Isen Clearsong Records . . .because a song is like a good companion. please visit http://www.clearsong.com ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 10 Jan 2001 11:55:24 -0600 From: Scott and Jody Subject: Re: Joni/Thom Yorke NJC Sarah wrote: <> Hi Sarah and welcome! Also, you will find that a list member will turn you on to a particular artist, and that artist then becomes one of your all time favorites. Then Bob wrote: > Thanks for posting Sarah, and welcome! (Don't know how long you've been > lurking, but it's always great to hear new voices!) > And I know what you mean...I can still hardly believe there's another person > who shares my love for Joni, XTC, Tom Waits, even Stan Ridgway! (Hi Jody!) > Not to mention, The Replacements!! (Hi Bob!) jody NP - Nightclub Jitters - The Mats ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 10 Jan 2001 10:07:49 -0800 From: jan gyn Subject: Re: [sf_indie] righteous axe (snip) >Well Jan I have seen everything now. This would be just like an acoustic on >a VG-8. You would hear too much of the acoustic sound over the alternate >tuning sound. As far as the Marshall stack goes I think it would a bitch to >keeping it from feeding back. > >Michael(at VG_8 headquarters) If it fed back, the player could be seen as a spiritual conduit. Definitely a must have... "This goes to 11' -Nigel Tufnel, explaining his Marshall amp's volume capabilities. - -jan ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 10 Jan 2001 13:13:47 EST From: SCJoniGuy@aol.com Subject: Re: joni in poetrymagazine.com Thanks for the URL, and welcome aboard, Sheldon! I read the article - it's a nice overview, with some great pictures, album covers, and paintings. It's probably in the JMDL database but I missed it the first time 'round. Also as it deals with Joni's lyrics as poetry, it posts lyrics to lots of her songs. Even though I'm familiar with them all, sometimes when you see the words laid out in front of you it puts them in a different perspective. Question: To what is Joni referring when she repeats "the ghostly garden grows"? Does she mean the world in general as a ghostly garden? Funny then, in Woodstock she says we've got to get ourselves back to the garden. Bob NP(Now Playing): Caulfields, "The Day That Came & Went" ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 10 Jan 2001 12:19:53 -0600 From: "Pitassi, Mary" Subject: RE: Political sniping content (NJC) Kakki wrote regarding former Secretary of Labor Nominee Linda Chavez, in response to Yael's questions: "Yeah, one succesfully hounded out and more to go. Ashcroft, step right up, you're next! She took in a poor Guatamalan woman who had come from a battered woman's shelter and let her and her sons live with the family until the woman could get back up on her feet. She helped the woman go to school and get her US citizenship. But see, she was breaking the law for "harboring an illegal alien." It also came out that she had "harbored" two other Hispanic illegal alien women who were in desperate straits and helped them financially and otherwise. Yes indeed, where is the "bipartisanship?" Well, that's one spin on what happened. Another is that, according to her own friends, Chavez was aware that the woman was an illegal alien three months into having her live at her home for a year, although she later stated publicly that she didn't know until after she left. There's also speculation that the immigrant was, indeed, an employee, and regarded by such by those who knew Chavez at the time. Chavez certainly would have been asked many questions about it at a confirmation hearing for the cabinet-level position for which she was nominated. For whatever reason, she chose to withdraw her nomination, or was nudged into doing so, so I suppose we will never know what actually occurred. And I can't say that I don't feel some sympathy for Chavez if events transpired even partly as you've related them, Kakki. However, on the basis of the imperfect record that exists, I would have had serious, serious reservations about this nomination. First, even if Chavez was at some level performing a charitable act, if she paid the woman under certain circumstances, she may have broken the law. Where is the vaunted Republican concern with the primacy of the "rule of law" in this instance--or does that only apply to Democrats thought to be the wrongdoers? Second, the laws she may have violated concerned, yes, immigration, but also *labor and employment*, the same laws she would have been sworn to uphold as Secretary of Labor! How credible a cabinet member could she possibly have been? Third, her truthfulness has been called into question. Contemporaneous witnesses clearly recall her knowing about the woman's immigration status and telling others about it, but she has gone on record as denying her knowledge. Where is the great concern with honesty that was so evident in some circles throughout the entire Lewinsky scandal? And again, how effective could she have been in her job under these circumstances? Fourth, Chavez is on record as having made some especially biting comments about the eventually-torpedoed nomination of Zoe Baird to be Attorney General under the Clinton administration in 1993. Baird, I believe, had failed to pay taxes and/or withholding for a nanny who worked in her employ. I think it's only fair to hold Chavez up to the same stringent standards that she has set for others in the opposition party with similar difficulties. That's "bipartisanship," if you ask me. Finally, about bipartisanship and "negativity." The first doesn't involve the Democrats lying down and playing dead, and the second hasn't all been generated by one side. Politics is, by definition, a volatile and sometimes nasty business. Cabinet confirmation hearings are often contentious, and the party not in control of the White House can be expected to voice opposition to some picks as a matter of course. That said, many of us still harbor hopes for bipartisan efforts during the next four years, beginning with these hearings and extending into various legislative initiatives. But bipartisanship involves give and take by BOTH sides, not just one. The jury's still out on the new House and Senate, but, judging by his actions until this point, I do not see George W. Bush as having learned this so far. Mary P. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 10 Jan 2001 10:38:42 -0800 (PST) From: "Lori R. Fye" Subject: LONG RANT - Re: The president-elect's cabinet picks (NJC) Kakki wrote: > My dark and cynical prediction is that most all of > the Bush picks will be hounded out by his political > enemies, and the ones, if any, that remain standing > will be nicked and smeared on a constant basis for > the next four years. I'm sure my memory is failing me, but I don't recall politics ever being quite as dirty and hateful as they became during the Clinton administration. Once Clinton took office, the opposition held nothing back in their efforts to ruin him. In the wake of that and considering the close election in November, they expect things to be different now? Sorry. "You reap what you sow." > In the meantime, though, do people really think all > the wrangling and dirty politics is productive for > the country? There's no doubt that this behavior promotes nothing that's good for the country. As long as politics is what it is, though -- a personal-power greed fest -- this is the way things are going to be. Or worse. If people could REALLY get behind doing what's good for this country instead of being primarily concerned with their own personal agenda ... oh fuck, I just feel like I'm talking to air. When I called Linda Chavez a hypocrite yesterday, I wasn't referring so much to her harboring an illegal immigrant -- I knew there had to be more to the story (and as I learned more, I admired Chavez's actions) -- as I was to Chavez's opposition to affirmative action and minimum wage increases. For Chavez, as a Hispanic and as a woman, to deny the existence of a glass ceiling is CRAP. Bully for her if she never experienced professional discrimination (although I'd bet she'd be lying on that count). Many, many more people of color and women HAVE experienced denial of promotions based on race, ethnicity, and gender (nevermind sexual preference), and this practice continues everyday. More insulting is for Ms. Chavez to tell poor working people that they shouldn't get a wage increase as the cost of living increases (and it is sure to do so soon, in leaps and bounds). Regarding this issue, Chavezs and the Republicans attitudes are sickening. As the Hispanic population in the U.S. continues to swell, more and more Hispanics work for minimum wage or less. It's painfully obvious what the new administration was hoping to say: "Here stands a Latina you should admire, and she says you should work to achieve what she's achieved. If you can't do that, she says you shouldn't make more for putting up with standing in a hot kitchen, frying burgers for a living." Well, what if you can't achieve what Linda achieved? What if you don't have the smarts? What if you work hard, hoping to go to school so you can better yourself, but can't because you can't afford someone to watch your kids? I know all the arguments regarding why there shouldn't be minimum wage increases. Oh, the poor small businessman. What about the rich huge corporations? For three years I worked for Ray-Ban/Bausch & Lomb in San Antonio. The "eyewear division" moved there from Rochester, NY, in 1989 to escape having to pay union wages of $7.50 an hour. In San Antonio they found a population, primarily Hispanic (and they insured this by opening the plant on the far south side of the city), who was THRILLED to get jobs for 50 cents more than minimum wage (which was then $4.25 an hour). But those jobs included no sick time off and no health insurance if you were part-time. Talk about dangling the proverbial carrot in front of the ass! It was a classic case of, Heres what you can ALMOST achieve! To add insult, the folks from Rochester were so ignorant that they sent their relocating managers through a quicky Spanish course because they were convinced that their new workers in SAN ANTONIO, TEXAS wouldnt understand a word of English! As one of the higher paid non-exempts, I was halfway between the managers/supervisors in the offices and the sunglass assemblers on the manufacturing floor. Quite often I found myself being shoulder and ears to people who wanted little more than an on-site daycare center, or a couple days sick leave, or a 50-cent raise. My own manager patiently explained to me that the suits in Rochester couldnt be bothered with a 50-cent raise as it would mean so little (?) ... I told her she ought to try living on the other end, where 50 cents an hour means $20 more a week, which can be the difference between being able to pay your electric bill on time or not. Tell you what, Ms. Chavez and the rest of you who dont believe in increasing the minimum age: YOU work for $5.15 an hour! 40 hours a week, it amounts to $10,712 per year. Go ahead -- live on THAT! Oh yeah, there are usually opportunities for overtime, but that just means you have less time to spend with your family. Great American Dream, my ass. I hate to say this, but I truly think that the end of our great capitalist experiment is somewhere in the foreseeable future. People are going to have to stop being so greedy, both in business and in politics, and SHARE some more of the wealth. Otherwise, there will be a revolution in this country, and it will be an ugly one. Lori, disgusted and only mildly apologetic for the rant, in DC Yahoo! Photos - Share your holiday photos online! http://photos.yahoo.com/ ------------------------------ End of JMDL Digest V2001 #12 **************************** ------- Post messages to the list by clicking here: mailto:joni@smoe.org Unsubscribe by clicking here: mailto:joni-digest-request@smoe.org?body=unsubscribe ------- Siquomb, isn't she?