From: les@jmdl.com (JMDL Digest) To: joni-digest@smoe.org Subject: JMDL Digest V2000 #656 Reply-To: joni@smoe.org Sender: les@jmdl.com Errors-To: les@jmdl.com Precedence: bulk Unsubscribe: mailto:joni-digest-request@smoe.org?body=unsubscribe Archives: http://www.smoe.org/lists/joni Websites: http://www.jmdl.com http://www.jonimitchell.com JMDL Digest Friday, December 15 2000 Volume 2000 : Number 656 The 'Official' Joni Mitchell Homepage, created by Wally Breese, can be found at http://www.jonimitchell.com. It contains the latest news, a detailed bio, Original Interviews, essays, lyrics and much much more. The JMDL website can be found at http://www.jmdl.com and contains interviews, articles, the member gallery, archives, and much more. ========== TOPICS and authors in this Digest: -------- phonetics survey NJC but you may be interested ["Wally Kairuz" ] Re: Hamas glory record/NJC [MDESTE1@aol.com] new music update NJC [Emily Kirk Gray ] Re: Hamas glory record/NJC [catman ] Re: Best of 2000 NJC [SCJoniGuy@aol.com] Julia Fordham (NJC) [Jeff Clark ] Re: Julia Fordham/Kyle Eastwood (SJC) [Don Rowe ] Re: Julia Fordham (NJC) ["Gerald Notaro (LIB)" ] Re: irregardless/regardless NJC ["Lori R. Fye" ] RE: irregardless/regardless NJC ["Lori R. Fye" ] amsterdam NJC ["Garret" ] RE: carthage (NJC) ["Wally Kairuz" ] Joni Mitchell LIVE in Austria ["Schlifni Manhard" ] Re: irregardless/regardless NJC [catman ] "voices" at Amazon [Penny ] Re: Hamas glory record/NJC [catman ] Re: Joni Mitchell LIVE in Austria [IVPAUL42@aol.com] Today in Joni History - December 15 [Today in Joni History ] Re: Hamas glory record/ NJC [mags ] Re: Hamas glory record/ NJC [catman ] Boys on the Sand - NJC [CarltonCT@aol.com] Re: NJC Banks [Catherine McKay ] Re: Boys on the Sand - NJC [michael w yarbrough ] Re: Snow gathers like bolts of lace NJC [Catherine McKay ] RE: Snow gathers like bolts of lace NJC ["Wally Kairuz" ] RE: Snow gathers like bolts of lace NJC ["Wally Kairuz" ] Re: Best of 2000 NJC ["Mike Hicks" ] Re: Best of 2000 NJC [SCJoniGuy@aol.com] Re: Boys on the Sand - NJC [SCJoniGuy@aol.com] Re: Joni Mitchell LIVE in Austria ["Victor Johnson" Subject: phonetics survey NJC but you may be interested i have already received several replies from people that want to participate in the phonetics survey. i will wait until i can gather more ''informants'' and then send the questionnaires out. it is very important that you remember that this is purely a descriptive phonetics project -- that is, no judgment of any kind is involved. i would like to put a few theories to the test and see where the isophonemic lines [the lines that join points where people pronounce similarly] really go through. i have a lot of information on what i should expect, and i am sure that i will be surprised at the end of the survey. the survey will require certain information on locations, e.g. where you were raised, where you went to school, where you have spent the last few years, etc.. rest assured that this is only so that i can identify certain variables that relate sounds and places. again, i'm not interested in class or income. in other words, this is not the ''who's who on the jmdl'' survey. i am being very careful about this issue since most linguistics projects fail because informants feel self-conscious or have the misconception that surveys are meant to determine where people sound posh and where they disgrace their english teachers. consequently, either deliberately or unwittingly, they provide non-representative answers because they feel that these responses will place them in a better light. the only condition to participate is that you are a native speaker of english. let's define a native speaker of english as someone whose first language was english. if you were raised on more than one language, then english must be one of those languages for you to qualify as a native speaker. if you're ready and you promise you won't cheat, e-mail me privately. wallyK ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 15 Dec 2000 09:09:32 -0300 From: mintagli@email.ypf.com.ar Subject: Re: carthage (NJC) >mariana, how are you?> I'm doing fine, thanks, in spite of the fact that my new job is boring me to death. Thank God I resubscribed to the JMDL from this address! It saves my life every day. I'm really grateful. >''carthage'' is pronounced to rhyme with CAR-bridge, with the stress on CAR and the ''th'' sound as in ''think''.> Thank you very much. I would have pronounced the "th" as in "taxi" rather than as in "think", I'm not sure why. >are you roasting down there in la plata too??????????> Yes, though not today, thankfully. I thought the heat would kill me yesterday. As you wrote >it's hot, it's muggy, it's full of bugs.> My mother's got a pool in her backyard, so that's a nice way out of this hell. Would you like to come and enjoy a family day with us? I mean it! >wallyK, a fierce hillaire belloc fan!> You've won my friendship with this revelation and with your love of Rohmer. Mariana, the shy Argentinian ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 15 Dec 2000 08:06:12 -0500 From: "Mike Hicks" Subject: Best of 2000 These are my picks for 2000: Aimee Mann - Bachelor #2. Sara Evans - Born to Fly. David Gray - White Ladder. Nina Gordon - Today and the Rest of My Life. Enya - A Day Without Rain. Cure - Bloodflowers Yes - The Ladder (I think these last two were released this year) Mike ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 15 Dec 2000 07:52:14 EST From: MDESTE1@aol.com Subject: Re: Hamas glory record/NJC In a message dated 12/14/2000 9:33:46 PM Pacific Standard Time, briansymes1@EMAIL.MSN.COM writes: << In this country weve been counting votes and pointing fingers, we need somebody to get there head out of wall street and oil wells and court rooms and get to wprking on world peace!. >> You have had Bill Clinton badgering israel to give ever more land and concessions to these Hamas guys for eight years. You had this same Hamas group give alot of money to get Hillary Clitnon elected to the Senate. When the people of this country finally understand the negligence that the democrats "practiced" in foreign policy it may be possible to actually make progress. I beg to say that a little finger pointing is just what is needed to wake people up. When groups like Hamas are allowed to become donors to political campaigns of one party something should be said. marcel deste ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 15 Dec 2000 09:08:47 -0500 (EST) From: Emily Kirk Gray Subject: new music update NJC hi everyone! remember my big quest for new music, specifically of the female singer/songwriter-but-with-an-edge category? and how everyone came in with so many suggestions? i had a list of 20 CDs to buy, with money for two -- oh, lord, what a dilemma. anyway, here is my update: 1) juliana hatfield, "beautiful creature" -- this one has slowly and steadily grown on me. the first listen i was sort of, ehhh, nothing special here. but i was wrong: i was duped by the simplicity of the lyrics, i think. and i was turned off by "cool rock boy," which i still sort of think is a rather unoriginal song, lyric-wise that is. BUT i love, love, love "daniel" and especially the line "this is the sound of NO MONEY" which this broke grad student likes to sing at the top of her lungs. and the music, the guitar -- wonderful, eerie, moving song. a perfect first song for the album. i also really like "choose drugs" which my boyfriend thinks is really lame, very obvious with its chorus "i say it's me or drugs you choose drugs" and i know what he means but when she lilts her voice high, high and soaring high to sing "druuuuugs" at the end, i just love it. it's so silly that it is also perfect. and i like the one about sitting on a plane on a runway, cheap red-eye it's a one-way -- the metaphor works (oh man, does it work -- speaking as someone who met her significant other ON A PLANE). and i like the "screw you, ex, somebody is waiting for me" one (can you tell i'm doing this without the CD in front of me?). anyway, THANK you whoever recommended this to me -- it's truly a find. 2) bjork, "selmasongs" this one i need more time with. i LOVE "homogenic" and liked "post" -- and i respect bjork immensely. still, it's tough going here. part of the problem: i didn't see "dancer in the dark" so i have no sense of the thinking behind this record. also i have a sort of innate aversion to the musical form (sorry, it's true, it's like an allergy! i shudder when i hear most musical music! a big generalization). as my sister says about this CD, wow, who knew bjork could be so embarrassing! which sums it up for me -- take away the industrial stuff and the lyrics about crash bang boom (which, tell you the truth, i don't find so incredibly provocative or original), and you are left with lots of swooping, soaring strings and the like. a little gushy. still, i love BSN -- and it's playing right now, and that's DRENCHED, so who am i to quibble? i'm not sure i'd still be playing "selmasongs" if i didn't think bjork was someone to trust, as an artist -- but i do, so i am. (the vaunted duet with thom yorke, track 3, is OK... i've been thinking too how funny he sounds singing so straightforwardly, and i think that sometimes about OK Computer. i've only heard Kid A once, and i thought: why can't they be more tongue-in-cheek? which is my usual response to big fat "concept albums." blech. but, obviously, i should listen to it more. oy.) thanks for reading! and more importantly: thanks for all the suggestions! (i have my list ready and waiting for my holiday requests...) - --emily ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 15 Dec 2000 14:24:47 +0000 From: catman Subject: Re: Hamas glory record/NJC MDESTE1@aol.com wrote: > In a message dated 12/14/2000 9:33:46 PM Pacific Standard Time, > briansymes1@EMAIL.MSN.COM writes: > > << In this country weve been counting votes and pointing fingers, we need > somebody to get there head out of wall street and oil wells and court rooms > and get to wprking on world peace!. >> > > You have had Bill Clinton badgering israel to give ever more land and > concessions to these Hamas guys for eight years. how hypocritical can you get. The so called state of Israel was founded through terrorism. The land was stolen. Terrorism works! This sad state of affairs has been allowed to get where it has thru collective guilt. It is about time it stopped. The Palestians need their home. End of story. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 15 Dec 2000 09:47:29 EST From: SCJoniGuy@aol.com Subject: Re: Best of 2000 NJC << Aimee Mann - Bachelor #2.>> Funny how people have mentioned this one in lieu of the Magnolia soundtrack, which I liked a lot more. Both were 2000 releases. Not that B#2 isn't good, just that it's not as memorable as Magnolia imo...(except for those Supertramp songs...I guess they fit in the film but they seem out of place here). << Cure - Bloodflowers>> Now THIS one was a major disappointment for me...especially if it's their swansong, it's a whimpering exit to be sure. One memorable song, "Someday The Birds Will Sing", but the rest just blobs together in one big blob. It has a "Disintegration" sound, but the songs just don't measure up. Of course, to each his own, as always! :~) Bob NP: XTC, "We're All Light" ------------------------------ Date: 15 Dec 00 09:47:57 EST From: Jeff Clark Subject: Julia Fordham (NJC) <> I would describe Julia Fordham as acoustic-based (she plays guitar) folk-pop-jazz, kind of like Court & Sparkish Joni-- so I love it! The JM influence is quite strong I would say and she has a beautiful sweet-husky voice. She has a Best-of CD that is a good sampler. But I saw her recently at a club in NYC and she did at least 6-8 brand new songs that were complete knockouts. I think her next CD is going to be quite good and will hopefully allow her to reach a larger audience here in the States (she's British) as she also has a new major label contract for U.S. She's overlooked! Jeff NP: John Coltrane "The Drum Thing" ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 15 Dec 2000 07:02:41 -0800 (PST) From: Don Rowe Subject: Re: Julia Fordham/Kyle Eastwood (SJC) I'll jump in here, since Julia, in addition to being a GIANT Joni fan, is one woman I'd cheerfully sit and listen to singing Florida election law statutes. She first hit the scene in the 80's with the hit "Happy Ever After", which still haunts all these many years later. She moves effortlessly between jazz, pop, rock and dance arrangements pretty much throughout her catalog. But for the newcomer, I'd suggest her first two albums, the first self-titled, the second "Porcelain" ... which is widely considered her finest work. The Larry Klein produced "Falling Forward" is a GREAT next stop. The purists, as usual, find the album over-produced, but Julia's is a voice that, at least in my opinion, benefits dramatically from the kind of sonic perfection Larry brings to everything he touches. Hope this helps ... and best of luck in your discovery. Don Rowe ===== Visit me anytime at http://www.mp3.com/donrowe Yahoo! Shopping - Thousands of Stores. Millions of Products. http://shopping.yahoo.com/ ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 15 Dec 2000 10:16:31 -0500 (EST) From: "Gerald Notaro (LIB)" Subject: Re: Julia Fordham (NJC) Her Porcelain cd was quite successful here in the States. Jerry On 15 Dec 2000, Jeff Clark wrote: > < What type of music does she write/sing, etc.>> > > I would describe Julia Fordham as acoustic-based (she plays guitar) > folk-pop-jazz, kind of like Court & Sparkish Joni-- so I love it! The JM > influence is quite strong I would say and she has a beautiful sweet-husky > voice. She has a Best-of CD that is a good sampler. But I saw her recently at > a club in NYC and she did at least 6-8 brand new songs that were complete > knockouts. I think her next CD is going to be quite good and will hopefully > allow her to reach a larger audience here in the States (she's British) as she > also has a new major label contract for U.S. She's overlooked! > > Jeff > NP: John Coltrane "The Drum Thing" ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 15 Dec 2000 10:23:49 -0600 From: mags Subject: Re: Hamas glory record/NJC catman wrote: > MDESTE1@aol.com wrote: > > > In a message dated 12/14/2000 9:33:46 PM Pacific Standard Time, > > briansymes1@EMAIL.MSN.COM writes: > > > > << In this country weve been counting votes and pointing fingers, we need > > somebody to get there head out of wall street and oil wells and court rooms > > and get to wprking on world peace!. >> > > > > You have had Bill Clinton badgering israel to give ever more land and > > concessions to these Hamas guys for eight years. > > how hypocritical can you get. The so called state of Israel was founded through terrorism. > The land was stolen. Terrorism works! > This sad state of affairs has been allowed to get where it has thru collective guilt. It > is about time it stopped. The Palestians need their home. End of story. Written with respect, I beg to differ. I do not believe that Israel was founded through terrorism at all. Mags - -- --------------------------------------------------------------------- _~O / /\_, ___/\ /_ - ----------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 15 Dec 2000 07:34:30 -0800 (PST) From: "Lori R. Fye" Subject: Re: irregardless/regardless NJC Colin wrote, of Lori and lorry: > Both rhyme with Sorry which does not rhyme with > glory. More confusion: if you're from the U.S. state of Wisconsin you might pronounce "sorry" to rhyme with "gory," as a friend of mine from Ripon, WI, does. Lori in DC Yahoo! Shopping - Thousands of Stores. Millions of Products. http://shopping.yahoo.com/ ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 15 Dec 2000 07:29:13 -0800 (PST) From: "Lori R. Fye" Subject: RE: irregardless/regardless NJC > by the way, your diction mistake was the use > of ''aggravating'' Fair enough, Wally. Thanks for clearing that up! : ) Lori in DC Yahoo! Shopping - Thousands of Stores. Millions of Products. http://shopping.yahoo.com/ ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 15 Dec 2000 15:55:12 -0000 From: "Garret" Subject: amsterdam NJC "maybe i'll go to amsterdam, or maybe i'll go to Rome" well, this is a little ridiculous. Donna and i went to book for ourselvefs a holiday in Rome for december 27th. there were no flights available. so we just looked at a map and said at the same time...Amsterdam! so we're going to Amsterdam on dec 27 until jan 2nd. donna asked me what's the currency there and i jsut replied "dutch guilders", well, she demanded how in gods name do i know that, and i was like "well, us joni fans know all sorts of things" (John Van Tiel had to tell me a few months ago so i could get a covers cd from him:-) So, here's my question.....is Amsterdam an expensive city? how much money should i bring? will it be totally impossible to get accomodation at an affordable (student) rate? and, finally, any advice on where we should go and what we should do? oh, and while i'm writing i may as well tell a little Joni story:-D my friends have been telling me for weeks that buying presents for me for my birthday is the hardest thing ever. so one asked me which joni cds dont i have. i named Ladies of the Canyon (which a "good friend" lost on me. that's teh second time now, i'm never lending it to anyone again:-) and Night Ride Home (which i do have but mine has some awful scratches). she went looking for these and foudn them hard to come across, which is odd because she works in HMV and i know that both are in stock there. eventuallly she went to tower records and asked for help to find these cds, and four staff members decided they'd help. all four of them love Joni. one girl kept telling my friend to buy Blue, and the other kept saying Mingus! all four of them were really excited that someone was buying joni and tried to sell her PWWAM! GARRET np- Jewel. Rudolph the red nosed reindeer........i really like jewels christmas album, more traditional than i would have expected from her. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 15 Dec 2000 13:12:03 -0300 From: "Wally Kairuz" Subject: RE: carthage (NJC) mariana, i would love too! as soon as i resume my social life -- meaning, when the US application season is over -- you'll have a happy baby whale in you mother's pool! love, wally - -----Mensaje original----- De: owner-joni@jmdl.com [mailto:owner-joni@jmdl.com]En nombre de mintagli@email.ypf.com.ar Enviado el: Viernes, 15 de Diciembre de 2000 09:10 a.m. Para: wallykai@fibertel.com.ar CC: joni@smoe.org Asunto: Re: carthage (NJC) >are you roasting down there in la plata too??????????> Yes, though not today, thankfully. I thought the heat would kill me yesterday. As you wrote >it's hot, it's muggy, it's full of bugs.> My mother's got a pool in her backyard, so that's a nice way out of this hell. Would you like to come and enjoy a family day with us? I mean it! ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 15 Dec 2000 16:28:58 -0000 From: "Schlifni Manhard" Subject: Joni Mitchell LIVE in Austria Yesterday, I was in a concert from Ramona (age 27), she is - according to my subjective perception of reality - the Austrian version of Joni Mitchell. Ramona is currently on her local winter tour in Vienna. One sad thing is that Joni has never played a concert in Vienna (Austria) - I think she has missed an important place in career. We really have some anachronistic hippie veterans here in Austria, although they are younger than 30. If Joni gets the opportunity to visit Vienna, then I would recommend her to go to a concert from Ramona. I have seen every concert of Ramona's current winter tour. She has studied philosophy and is an excellent singer/songwriter. Some songs are establishing a strong bond of intimacy between her and the listener. She allows her inner vibrations to become open, so that the audience can sense and access a free flow of emotions. Her voice is an ever evolving instrument setting free her energy that comes from deep down inside. Her music mediates ambitious soundscapes and strongly image-filled moods. Living in openness and harmony allows you to free yourself from the mental disorder surrounding your imagination which is important to sense her love flow. You have the optimal experience when you are totally immersed in the flow state. On a technical level, her performance sometimes mediates a musically and sonically ambitious opus that combines a variety of different textures on a selected set of songs in a consistent way. Some of her early acoustic stuff can be classified as "folk", ranging from a simple instrumentation to a more complex harmonic structure. Later on, Ramona brought in some jazz tunes with - in part - very complex rhythms. Her explorations brought her into the folk-jazz and rock world. Her songs continue to grow musically and thematically, and her band helps her to better fill out the harmonic complexities. Her lyrics are very sophisticated, many songs are comparable - in my opinion - to Joni Mitchell's range. Her lyrics are primary dedicated to political issues, philosophical issues, oceanic love feelings and intensive emotions of all kinds. Although Ramona sings in English, she has absolutely no reach in Austria, there is no public for such a kind of music. She has - until now - no contract with a record label/company. She only plays small club-concerts. Nevertheless, I hope and wish that things will change for Ramona, because she deserves to become popular. Yesterday, the last song of Ramona's show was her modified and extended interpretation of Joni's Woodstock song. The crowd, mostly young, screamed in turn. For a moment, it seemed like something, like a new beginning: We have a whole new political hippie movement here... According to cosmology, we are stardust, billion year old atoms. Except for hydrogen, all the atoms that make each of us up -- the iron in our blood, the calcium in our bones, the carbon in our brains -- were manufactured and synthesized in red giant and supernoave stars thousands of light-years away in space and billions of years ago in time. We are, as I like to say, stardust, starchildren, starflowerchildren. Our loyalties are to the whole human species and the planet earth. Our obligation to survive is owed not just to ourselves but also to that universe, ancient and vast, from which we spring... And we've got to get ourselves back to the garden, back to the stars, back to the cosmos from where our matter came some billions of years ago... Hand Joni a flower, wish her peace and love for Christmas. There goes a wonderful woman who has kept on trucking while so many others of her era have just sold out to the system. Best wishes Manhard Schlifni, Ph.D. I wish I was on a sailboat with a hippie girl who played guitar for me I wish I was as happy as happy as me (Manhard Schlifni, 2000) _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 15 Dec 2000 11:43:35 -0500 (EST) From: Catherine McKay Subject: Re: hello earthlings and fellow joni fans - --- FromThePlanet Geeeek wrote: > hello earthlings (i think) and fellow joni mitchell > fans (i am sure), Hey, Geek - great post. It's good to hear from the ET contingent. Insert appropriate seasonal greeting here. NPIMH - You turn me on, I'm a radar dish. Get your free @yahoo.ca address at http://mail.yahoo.ca ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 15 Dec 2000 16:55:57 +0000 From: catman Subject: Re: Hamas glory record/NJC (md) As usual you are so keen to insult and appear superior you get yoklur fatcs wrong. In the case of the state of Israel, terrorism did work. It came about trhu terrorism. As for blowing up children on busses, which is evil, so is the shooting of children. Both sides in this sad and stupid war are guilty. It would seem anyobody who has a different view to you is 'far left'. Grow up! You are terrible advert for your belief system. MDESTE1@aol.com wrote: > Colin, if you had a clue other than the obvious selective propaganda you have been fed I would debate it with you. The fact is the Palestinians have never had a home. Some lived there but they never had a country. The most obvious land mass they have populated is in present day Syria which wont let them return to that place. "terrorism works". What a ridiculous statement. Tell me where it ever solved anything. Tell me where it ever ended anything. I cant believe you justify blowing up school busses filled with children but then again nothing suprises me about the way the far left thinks. cheers. marcel - -- bw colin colin@tantra.fsbusiness.co.uk http://www.geocities.com/tantra_apso/index.html ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 15 Dec 2000 16:59:09 +0000 From: catman Subject: Re: irregardless/regardless NJC > More confusion: if you're from the U.S. state of > Wisconsin you might pronounce "sorry" to rhyme with > "gory," as a friend of mine from Ripon, WI, does. yes-which is how this whole discussion started-accents! > > > Lori > in DC > Yahoo! Shopping - Thousands of Stores. Millions of Products. > http://shopping.yahoo.com/ - -- bw colin colin@tantra.fsbusiness.co.uk http://www.geocities.com/tantra_apso/index.html ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 15 Dec 2000 08:58:14 -0800 (PST) From: Penny Subject: "voices" at Amazon Hi all! Hey, I don't know if it's been mentioned on-list yet, but the "voices" book is available at Amazon.com. Does anyone know when the big artbook is supposed to be out? Penny Yahoo! Shopping - Thousands of Stores. Millions of Products. http://shopping.yahoo.com/ ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 15 Dec 2000 17:08:00 +0000 From: catman Subject: Re: Hamas glory record/NJC > Written with respect, I beg to differ. I do not believe that Israel was founded through > terrorism at all. It was. There was concerted terrorist campaign to found the state of Israel. I believe it was against the British. Not only that but I believe one of the PM's, (begin) I think was a terrorist, pre Israel. Of course this assuming that our govt and our history are not lying! There was a Palestine before it became Israel. To expect that the Palestinaian people will just accept the situation is daft. The killing, bu both sides, is appalling and cannot be justified. And anti-semitism shown by most of the world toward the Arabs (yes they are semites) does help matters. The attitude that Israel cano do no wrong, based I believe on collective guilt because of the Holocaust, doesn't help either. And Mags, you don't have to be afraid to disagree, especially as you are quite able to do so without being rude or making judgements about the person you disagree with. take crae colin > > > Mags > > -- > > --------------------------------------------------------------------- > > _~O > / /\_, > ___/\ > /_ > ----------------------------------------- - -- bw colin colin@tantra.fsbusiness.co.uk http://www.geocities.com/tantra_apso/index.html ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 15 Dec 2000 12:32:32 EST From: IVPAUL42@aol.com Subject: Re: Joni Mitchell LIVE in Austria - - the Austrian version of Joni Mitchell. Sorry to have to say this, but this really is one of the dumbest things I've read in a long time, as if each nation or culture has or could expect to have a Joni Mitchell. Would that it were true, but if it were then Joni would be just an Average Joe. Paul I ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 15 Dec 2000 04:00:00 -0700 From: Today in Joni History Subject: Today in Joni History - December 15 1994: Today's issue of Rolling Stone includes a review of Turbulent Indigo. An excerpt: "Mitchell's words are honed by a life dedicated to the notion that songs, like all great art, can illuminate deeper truths. Plenty has been written about the rockers of the '60s hitting their 50s, but Mitchell is virtually the only female pop star to pass that mark with her artistry undiminished. Turbulent Indigo is Mitchell's best album since the mid-70's and a work that is highly musical, poetic and very, very sad." Read the article: http://www.jmdl.com/articles/docs/941215rs.cfm In the same issue, Joni is interviewed. When asked why she doesn't exhibit her paintings in the US, she replies "No one asked me. In America they're uptight about twice, let alone thrice gifted. Every time I exhibit here, I take a lot of flak for it. They call me a dilettante." http://www.jmdl.com/articles/docs/951215rs.cfm - -------- Know a date or month specific Joni tidbit? Send it off to JoniFact@jmdl.com and we'll add it to the list. - -------- ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 15 Dec 2000 13:22:32 -0600 From: mags Subject: Re: Hamas glory record/ NJC catman wrote: > > > >I first wrote: > > Written with respect, I beg to differ. I do not believe that Israel was founded through > > terrorism at all. > > Then Colin responded with: > < against the British. Not only that but I believe one of the PM's, (begin) I think was a > terrorist, pre Israel. > Of course this assuming that our govt and our history are not lying!>>> stepping out of the shadows of my timid self I say: First of all Colin, if there is anything you can count on in this world, it is that the "facts" laid out in white history books are massaged in such a way as to make anything become "true". Sorry for the generalization there, that is just how I feel, based on what I feel solely, based on what my life experience has taught me. I know that what I do feel is not written up in any PhD dissertation or anywhere considered academic thought. Perhaps it will never make the six o'clock news. Perhaps I am not able to back this up with "fact". Of this I can be certain, I know how I feel. And when I see words written against Israel, it is very hard for me to lie here in the bushes and say nothing. Again , I mean no disrespect to you and yes I am disagreeing. From here I go on to say that I realize I cannot know the full effect of anti-semitism,. How could I? And from this position, perhaps some would think that I have no right to say a word about it. That said, I know in my heart and soul that I do need to speak out against it. Everywhere I can. I have gained some insight into antisemitism and feel for those who have suffered in silence over the years. I feel the need to speak out against antisemitism based on the hours of heart wrenching talk and the stories that Brian has shared with me. From this position, I have felt along with him. Trust me, I have. Yes, this is the position from whence I come. I will advocate for those who have been silenced, who feel unable to speak out in public. I always have. And this isnt about my feeling the need to be right over this or any issue for that matter. This is just how I feel. It is indeed my humble and heartfelt opinion. sincerely, Mags > > > There was a Palestine before it became Israel. To expect that the Palestinaian people will just > accept the situation is daft. > The killing, bu both sides, is appalling and cannot be justified. And anti-semitism shown by > most of the world toward the Arabs (yes they are semites) does help matters. The attitude that > Israel cano do no wrong, based I believe on collective guilt because of the Holocaust, doesn't > help either. > > And Mags, you don't have to be afraid to disagree, especially as you are quite able to do so > without being rude or making judgements about the person you disagree with. > take crae > colin > > > > > > > Mags > > > > -- > > > > --------------------------------------------------------------------- > > > > _~O > > / /\_, > > ___/\ > > /_ > > ----------------------------------------- > > -- > bw > colin > > colin@tantra.fsbusiness.co.uk > http://www.geocities.com/tantra_apso/index.html - -- --------------------------------------------------------------------- _~O / /\_, ___/\ /_ - ----------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 15 Dec 2000 18:56:27 +0000 From: catman Subject: Re: Hamas glory record/ NJC > From here I go on to say that I > realize I cannot know the full effect of anti-semitism,. > > I feel the need to speak out against antisemitism I am somewhat disturbed to find that you have confused my stating some histroical facts as anti - semitism. I thought you knew me better than that. One can disagree with the way the state of Israel conducts itself without being anti Jewish. I say anti Jewish rather than Anti semite because Arabs are semites too. It si like saying I am anit American becasue I don't agree with whatever about their Givt. Plain silly. However, you have illustrated a point for me very well. Anyone dare say anything against Israel and one is immediately classed as anti jewish. Which is why Israel can get away with their appalling treat,ment of Palestinaians and their muredering of children. (i know this happens on BOTH sides but you would think, from the media, that it is only the Palestinians that do it). Whetehr you like it or not, their was a a terroroist campaign aganist the British in the former Palestine. PM Begin was a terrorist. Stating that does not make me anti Jewish. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 15 Dec 2000 14:00:44 EST From: CarltonCT@aol.com Subject: Boys on the Sand - NJC Jim Lama-dama -yabba-dabba-do wrote: <> Hey Jim - Brian Wilson and the Beach Boys are in the top 5 of my pantheon of musical deities. I love Brian's early "fun" songs and I love his later experimental work. Few people know that the Beach Boys did their very best work in the early Seventies on "Sunflower" and the ironically titled "Surf's Up" album. As a child, the Beach Boys colored my fantasies about life in Southern California, and even now their music is a part of this wonderful place. Although Brian Wilson couldn't surf to save his life, he was always obsessed with water. Very often I am at beach-y kinds of gatherings and always happy when someone puts on the Boys' "Greatest Hits" or "All Summer Long". I spend most every weekend at the beach playing volleyball and swimming when it's warm and I love to get out there and rollerblade a couple of times a week. I wrote Boys on the Sand as a love song to a fun, wonderful group of guys who love to party, love to play volleyball, and who welcomed me with suntanned arms into their circle following a messy break up six years ago. Jim, you might have noticed that the album tells a story, and the placement of the songs is a continuous narrative. Interestingly, straight guys have all responded to this song. Oh yeah, gay guys get just as excited about the guys at the beach (are all within reach) as straight guys get about girls. Jim, you get a free bottle of sun block for recognizing all the references to Beach Boys lyrics in my song. I love it when I hear someone's taken another listen to my CD. I wanted to write songs that naturally expressed my own feelings about gay love and gay life, which in many ways, is not so different from straight life. Most "gay" music is escapist, but I wanted to jump in and express some feelings which I don't believe have been written about yet in complete honesty. I have yet to meet/see/hear of any other gay man who writes songs for the guitar in an open, confessional way. Rufus Wainwright writes his songs to and about men on the piano, but even he fudges on his pronouns. Some of my favorite comments have come from our own resident political conservative and provocateur extraordinaire, Marcel, who said "Boys on the Sand" gave him a huge laugh and that all the demos ranked an A plus for originality, among other things. I believe every word of that as we all know Marcel is not one to offer false praise much less hold back on his true opinions. For me, this means we can all put the political discussion aside and remain united as a list now that the election is finally over. Thanks to both of you and everyone else just for listening! Universal love, - - Clark NP: Mussorgsky - Pictures at an Exhibition ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 15 Dec 2000 14:10:09 -0500 (EST) From: Catherine McKay Subject: Re: NJC Banks - --- catman wrote: > > I wouldn't be young again for anything. It is > overated. Speak for yourself (and you surely did!) I would! and I wouldn't make the same mistakes (yeah, right.) Get your free @yahoo.ca address at http://mail.yahoo.ca ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 15 Dec 2000 13:19:55 -0600 (CST) From: michael w yarbrough Subject: Re: Boys on the Sand - NJC On Fri, 15 Dec 2000 CarltonCT@aol.com wrote: > Rufus Wainwright writes his songs to and about > men on the piano, but even he fudges on his pronouns. I don't think it's fair to interpret a fudging of pronouns as less than honest. Desire is a lot more fluid than we like it to be, and artists that are obviously out and proud who write with different pronouns I think are more likely expressing either the fluidity of that desire or the fluidity of the artistic perspective than they are hiding their "true" (whatever that is) orientation. Me'Shell is another one who's gotten some criticism on this front (writing w/ male object pronouns instead of female etc.). That said, I think you using the pronouns and stories and images you want to use exemplifies just the kind of artistic integrity I'm talking about. Keep it up! - --Michael NP: PJ Harvey, _Stories..._ (Bob you need to get this album...) ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 15 Dec 2000 14:37:54 -0500 (EST) From: Catherine McKay Subject: Re: Robbed (NJC) - --- catman wrote: > Thanks Michael-you are right the money doesn't > bother me. I didn't feel particulalry > bothered last night but I awoke this mornikng > feeling afraid, lke some of my life has > beent aken. I know it hasn't but I feel invaded. You're normal - everyone feels that way when they've been robbed. We had our house broken into once and the thing that infuriated me the most was that the bastard broke my daughter's freakin' piggybank and took everything that was in it - including the pennies (it was mostly pennies in any case.) Oh yeah, and he left the back door open - and it was snowing and blowing outside. Had my wallet stolen a year or so ago. Only lost about $5 because I don't usually carry a lot of money, but it's replacing those darn cards that's such a headache. Later, my wallet was found - it was taken from my office and tossed in a closet somewhere. Everything was there except for the cash and my subway tokens so at least I didn't have to worry about replacing my driver's licence and health card and all those others that are a MAJOR hassle to replace - I hadn't reported all of them gone by the time they found the wallet. I don't get the nerve of some people thinking they have the right to take things that belong to other people or just waltz into their house and make a mess of their stuff. I don't even like having to go into another person's office when they're away just to look for a document that we need in a hurry. Get your free @yahoo.ca address at http://mail.yahoo.ca ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 15 Dec 2000 14:49:03 -0500 (EST) From: Catherine McKay Subject: Re: Snow gathers like bolts of lace NJC - --- mags wrote: > A foot > of snow fell last night. crazy. Its only December!!! It is crazy - we don't usually get much snow to speak of until after New Year's Day. But I tell you, if the way my head has been aching for the last two days is any indication, we are going to get a whole lot more! (Either that or I have a brain tumour.) Get your free @yahoo.ca address at http://mail.yahoo.ca ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 15 Dec 2000 17:04:06 -0300 From: "Wally Kairuz" Subject: RE: Joni Mitchell LIVE in Austria/marian njc where the hell is marian by the way?????????!!!!!!!!! wallyK, concerned ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 15 Dec 2000 11:46:26 -0800 From: "Kakki" Subject: Re: Julia Fordham (NJC) Jeff, I'm happy but still envious of you, Alison, Julius and May getting to see her at the Fez recently! She is fantastic. As I've raved here before, she is my number three behind Joni and Laura Nyro (slightly edging out Jonatha Brooke). When I saw here here earlier this year she mentioned that she lives in L.A. now so I'm hoping she will have some more local performances in the coming months. Kakki, off to the firm Holiday party for a well-deserved year-end martini ;-) ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 15 Dec 2000 17:06:27 -0300 From: "Wally Kairuz" Subject: RE: Snow gathers like bolts of lace NJC well, i sure hope it's only snow then, dear cath! wallyK - -----Mensaje original----- De: owner-joni@jmdl.com [mailto:owner-joni@jmdl.com]En nombre de Catherine McKay Enviado el: Viernes, 15 de Diciembre de 2000 04:49 p.m. Para: mags; jmdl@btinternet.com CC: Ross, Les; joni@smoe.org; Brian Gross Asunto: Re: Snow gathers like bolts of lace NJC It is crazy - we don't usually get much snow to speak of until after New Year's Day. But I tell you, if the way my head has been aching for the last two days is any indication, we are going to get a whole lot more! (Either that or I have a brain tumour.) Get your free @yahoo.ca address at http://mail.yahoo.ca ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 15 Dec 2000 15:09:11 -0500 (EST) From: Catherine McKay Subject: RE: irregardless/regardless NJC - --- Wally Kairuz wrote: > oh lori!!!! this one is soooooo goooooood!!!!!!!! > by the way, your diction mistake was the use of > ''aggravating'' for > ''annoying''. although ''aggravating'' is becoming > increasingly common as a > synonym of ''irritating'' or ''annoying'', it still > meets a lot resistance > from editors and referees. so there! :-{))) My husband uses that expression all the time and it drives me mad: "Stop aggravating me". To which I *would* reply, but for the fact that he *just wouldn't get it*: "You couldn't possibly get any worse." > wallyK, sick and tired of hot weather, and it's not > even summer yet. > Catherine, sick and tired of cold, snowy weather, and it's not even winter yet... Get your free @yahoo.ca address at http://mail.yahoo.ca ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 15 Dec 2000 17:12:36 -0300 From: "Wally Kairuz" Subject: RE: Snow gathers like bolts of lace NJC seriously, the weather is evidently crazy crazy crazy. i don't to get into the emissions thing again, but patterns are obviously all screwed up. in a matter of a few hours, the temperature has dropped about 50 degrees F here. these sudden changes are very typical in this part of the world, but they are becoming so frequent that my bones will be mere shards before the year is through. wallyK, doomsayer - -----Mensaje original----- De: owner-joni@jmdl.com [mailto:owner-joni@jmdl.com]En nombre de Catherine McKay Enviado el: Viernes, 15 de Diciembre de 2000 04:49 p.m. Para: mags; jmdl@btinternet.com CC: Ross, Les; joni@smoe.org; Brian Gross Asunto: Re: Snow gathers like bolts of lace NJC - --- mags wrote: > A foot > of snow fell last night. crazy. Its only December!!! It is crazy - we don't usually get much snow to speak of until after New Year's Day. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 15 Dec 2000 15:24:50 -0500 (EST) From: Catherine McKay Subject: Re: phonetics survey NJC but you may be interested - --- Wally Kairuz wrote: > it is very important that you remember that this is > purely a descriptive > phonetics project -- that is, no judgment of any > kind is involved. i would > like to put a few theories to the test and see where > the isophonemic lines > [the lines that join points where people pronounce > similarly] really go > through. If you don't already have it, I'd highly recommend David Crystal's "Cambridge Encyclopedia of the English Language". It's a great read and deals with a lot of this kind of stuff. Get your free @yahoo.ca address at http://mail.yahoo.ca ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 15 Dec 2000 12:29:38 -0800 From: "Kate Bennett" Subject: Garcia Marquez NJC After I sent this, I had second thoughts that it might be another one of those internet things that turns out not to be true. I don't know his style well enough to tell. But I did like the piece anyway. I wonder why someone would attribute it to him. Do you know if he is ill? Thanks for the clarification & sorry for spreading something that was incorrect. >From a friend to whom I forwarded that msg: >>>>>>>>> I'm a big fan of Garcia Marquez. I must inform you that he has denied writing this piece, for which I am grateful, 'cuz I for one don't find it particualarly compelling, and not in the style of the man who wrote "Cien Aqos de Soledad". ******************************************** Kate Bennett featured this month at Taylor Guitars www.taylorguitars.com/artists/awp/indies/ www.katebennett.com www.cdbaby.com/katebennett www.amazon.com ******************************************** ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 15 Dec 2000 16:16:13 -0500 From: "Mike Hicks" Subject: Re: Best of 2000 NJC > From: SCJoniGuy@aol.com > Date: Fri, 15 Dec 2000 09:47:29 EST > Subject: Re: Best of 2000 NJC > To: m_hicks@aiken.k12.sc.us, joni@smoe.org > Reply-to: SCJoniGuy@aol.com > << Aimee Mann - Bachelor #2.>> > > Funny how people have mentioned this one in lieu of the Magnolia soundtrack, > which I liked a lot more. Both were 2000 releases. Not that B#2 isn't good, > just that it's not as memorable as Magnolia imo...(except for those > Supertramp songs...I guess they fit in the film but they seem out of place > here). > > << Cure - Bloodflowers>> > > Now THIS one was a major disappointment for me...especially if it's their > swansong, it's a whimpering exit to be sure. One memorable song, "Someday The > Birds Will Sing", but the rest just blobs together in one big blob. It has a > "Disintegration" sound, but the songs just don't measure up. > > Of course, to each his own, as always! :~) > > Bob Hey Bob, I agree with you. No way these are their best releases, but since this is just a 2000 thread this is the best I could do. Mike > > NP: XTC, "We're All Light" ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 15 Dec 2000 16:00:56 EST From: SCJoniGuy@aol.com Subject: Re: Best of 2000 NJC << Hey Bob, I agree with you. No way these are their best releases, but since this is just a 2000 thread this is the best I could do. >> LOL! Well, Mike, you're just gonna have to buy more new music!! :~D I tell you, it was tough paring down the list this year, there was some other really fine records like John Hiatt, Peter Case, Michael Holland, that I liked but not as much as the ones that made it to my list. Being a slut has its downsides! Bob NP: Joni, "Song For Sharon", Dublin '83 ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 15 Dec 2000 16:03:43 EST From: SCJoniGuy@aol.com Subject: Re: Boys on the Sand - NJC << NP: PJ Harvey, _Stories..._ (Bob you need to get this album...) >> I'll see if it shows up in the used bins or on BMG...I'd ask Santa for it, but he'd probably laugh in my face! :~) But I have to admit that it's showing up on every critic's list... Bob ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 15 Dec 2000 16:42:22 -0500 From: "Victor Johnson" Subject: Re: Joni Mitchell LIVE in Austria > - the Austrian version of Joni Mitchell. > > Sorry to have to say this, but this really is one of the dumbest things I've read in a long time, as if each nation or culture has or could expect to have a Joni Mitchell. > Would that it were true, but if it were then Joni would be just an Average Joe. > > Paul I Can we once and for evermore learn the difference between a statement of fact and the voicing of someone's opinion which is completely subjective and has a particular meaning to them which can misinterpreted when taken out of context. For as long as I can remember, people have been using artists they are familiar with in order to describe their music or someone else's. There was nothing dumb at all about this post and that reply is illspirited and unnecessary. Also, you've never heard this woman, Ramona, you know nothing about her, for all you know she could have something of Joni Mitchell in her, plus she is only 27 and maybe just starting out while Joni is 57 and has had a career that has spanned her whole life. I'm sick of all these superiority complexes that seem to be going around. Please try to be more respectful of each other everybody. Victor Johnson http://www.cdbaby.com/victorjohnson "Just beyond the morning falls the river of your dreams, Escaping from the day these wild creatures run away." ------------------------------ End of JMDL Digest V2000 #656 ***************************** ------- Post messages to the list by clicking here: mailto:joni@smoe.org Unsubscribe by clicking here: mailto:joni-digest-request@smoe.org?body=unsubscribe ------- Siquomb, isn't she?