From: les@jmdl.com (JMDL Digest) To: joni-digest@smoe.org Subject: JMDL Digest V2000 #648 Reply-To: joni@smoe.org Sender: les@jmdl.com Errors-To: les@jmdl.com Precedence: bulk Unsubscribe: mailto:joni-digest-request@smoe.org?body=unsubscribe Archives: http://www.smoe.org/lists/joni Websites: http://www.jmdl.com http://www.jonimitchell.com JMDL Digest Sunday, December 10 2000 Volume 2000 : Number 648 The 'Official' Joni Mitchell Homepage, created by Wally Breese, can be found at http://www.jonimitchell.com. It contains the latest news, a detailed bio, Original Interviews, essays, lyrics and much much more. The JMDL website can be found at http://www.jmdl.com and contains interviews, articles, the member gallery, archives, and much more. ========== TOPICS and authors in this Digest: -------- JMDL Digest V2000 #647 ( -Reply) ["Craig Waltress" ] Re: Ayn Rand and HUAC - NJC [catman ] Re: Ayn Rand and HUAC - NJC [Siresorrow@aol.com] perfect day - njc [Siresorrow@aol.com] Re: perfect day - njc [SCJoniGuy@aol.com] Re: perfect day - njc [MGVal@aol.com] John Lennon tribute (NJC) ["kerry" ] Re: Ayn Rand and HUAC - NJC [Relayer211@aol.com] appoliges [FHejira@aol.com] Fwd: The will of the people (NJC) only for those with a sense of humor [M] A Short Tutorial on The Blues NJC ["Wally Kairuz" Subject: JMDL Digest V2000 #647 ( -Reply) **************************************************************** Please Note The information in this E-mail message is legally privileged and confidential information intended only for the use of the individual(s) named above. If you, the reader of this message, are not the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that you should not further disseminate, distribute, or forward this E-mail message. If you have received this E-mail in error, please notify the sender. Thank you ***************************************************************** ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 9 Dec 2000 01:41:06 -0800 From: "Kakki" Subject: Re: Ayn Rand and HUAC - NJC Hi Clark, You seem to know a lot about Rand for someone who was never formally exposed to her writings in school. > As a religious skeptic, I have no problem with Ayn Rand >being an atheist. I don't believe human beings have to have >a spiritual life in order to be complete. I think I may have been the one who brought up her atheism, but I did not mean to imply that being an atheist means that someone is not "complete." I only meant that by eliminating the factor of many who believe in a higher power from her precepts, she may be coming up short. Whether one believes or not is not the point. The fact is that many on this earth do believe in some higher power (as unscientific as that may be) whether it be God, Buddha, Krishna, Mohammed, Jesus, Don Juan or whomever. If she convienently leaves that fact out of her precepts, or if her philosophy cannot encompass it, then it seems to me that she comes up a bit short for not being truly "universal." > Many scholars question whether Rand had any real ideas of >her own. She would like to have been considered a >philosopher, but she is not accepted as one >by philosophical academics. Her ideas were mostly culled >from Nietzsche and the only thing new about these ideas >was her re-naming them. I truly don't know what the academics think, but is it possible that Rand was so "new" and still current back when we were learning about her that she may have not yet had the time to be considered in a longer perspective like Nietzsche or some of the other 19th century philosophers that were standard fare for us in college? > My undergraduate degree is in English Literature, and Ayn >Rand was never taught at either UCLA or Boston University >where I went to school. None of my friends who are English >professors have ever taken and would not give a class that >included the novels of Ayn Rand. As an author, she is just >not taken that seriously. Hmmm, the fact that those two schools did not pay attention to her is not proof to me that she was not to be taken seriously. I went to a high school that has ranked in the top 10 of the U.S. for 38 years and they certainly found her worthy of study. My university was less illustrious than BU and UCLA but they also incorporated her into the standard curriculum. Maybe there was a prejudice against her in some academic circles because she was annoyingly embraced by the pro-capitalist sector or was seemingly "politically incorrect" in a literal sense? > In Ayn Rand's case, from all acounts, her personal life was >a disaster, and very often, the lives of those around her were >also made disastrous. Well, now, isn't that true of a lot of the greats? > She was the head of a cult with the typical dynamic of any >cult: she enjoyed the sexual favors of a number of young, >male acolytes and excommunicated anyone who defied her >or questioned the principles of Objectivism. Her ruthless >self-promotion, lust for power and unmitigated greed were >her complete undoing and all of her personal relationships >were hopelessly troubled. Wow, where did you learn this? I'm not challenging you - just am curious. I've heard that there is a sort of Rand cult following that is pretty weird, but I always thought it stemmed from others who hung around her and are trying to hang onto some vicarious power from having known her. Sounds like some losers to me. > She turned on the psychologist Nathaniel Brandon after he >left her and continued to battle him for years afterwards as >the ultimate woman scorned. Brandon wrote about it in a >fascinating book which excoriates his former mentor. Also >interesting is a book called THE CULT OF AYN RAND > which any serious Rand devotee should read to see what >the actual results of "objectivism" are as practiced by its >originator. I thought Brandon was the one carrying on her torch - the Chief Cultist, so to speak, but I may be wrong. Woman scorned? So what else is new? ;-) > The most dangerous idea that Rand promotes is the one >that some of us are superior to the rest of the humans -- >we're just waiting for John Galt to gather us up with all the >other homo superiors. This is an appealing idea for people >who have been marginalized, or feel as if they are, which is >why Ayn Rand has such a strong homosexual following. Her implication that some people are superior is what ultimately turns me off. But I am not following how this would lead people who feel marginalized to embrace her. > Frank Lloyd Wright was an undeniable genius, but he had >his own cult and his own behavior was shamelessly amoral. >End result was a life wrought with sensational tragedies. It >reminds me of Joni talking about how all her artistic heroes, >Picasso and Miles Davis among them, were monsters. But there are also moral people who also live lives wrought with sensational tragedies. Maybe the core problem is that when people let themselves become a cult figure, the complications set in. > In the case of Ayn Rand, you see someone > who lives out the philosophy she espouses and the result is >disastrous both for herself, the people around her, the >people she names in the HUAC hearings. She was the >ultimate narcissist who treated all others as objects > for her own manipulation. Imagine what kind of f*cked up >world we would have if everybody behaved the same way. I think she may have had some good ideas but no mortal could ever live the pure objectivist life in reality. It's too bad she could not have learned from her own human complications and tragedies and perhaps further evolved her philosophy in a more realistic way. > All service may be self-serving, all actions for others are >done for ourselves, but there is total selfishness and there >is moral, considerate selfishness which recognizes that all >of us are embedded in the same social context, and that our >interactions should be mutually fulfilling and >never exploitive. Someone else on this list >already said >something which is so true: the world need as much love >and compassion as we can all muster. Maybe she was too much head and not enough heart. Kakki ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 09 Dec 2000 10:17:51 +0000 From: catman Subject: Re: Ayn Rand and HUAC - NJC > I went to a high school > that has ranked in the top 10 of the U.S. for 38 years and they certainly > found her worthy of study. Gosh you went to school for a long time;-) ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 9 Dec 2000 07:33:54 EST From: Siresorrow@aol.com Subject: Re: Ayn Rand and HUAC - NJC In a message dated 12/9/00 5:07:09 AM Eastern Standard Time, KakkiB@worldnet.att.net writes: << Maybe she was too much head and not enough heart. >> sounds like al gore, although marcel would say it's being too generous. patrick np. clark-matthew ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 9 Dec 2000 07:47:59 EST From: Siresorrow@aol.com Subject: perfect day - njc one of my favorite bands is collective soul. they have about five or six cd's out. rock based but very up beat. i picked up their newest one the other day and it had this song on it called perfect day. i listened to it while running and it's hard to focus then, but i immediately liked it. later in the day i listened to it in the car and i figured it out. elton john is singing and playing on it. in fact, it was the piano riffs that stood out to me while running. i have their collection and i have never heard acoustic piano on anything they have ever done. at least not played like a blues piano. my 8 year old girls were both sick yesterday too, so i stayed home because my wife had meetings. after lunch, they were playing with their doll house. i was intrigued. so i sat down with them and started playing with them. they immediately invited me into their world which was invisible to me as i fretted not being in the office that day. they were getting ready for tea. the mommy and daddy were taking a nap while the children were making the tea. the dog had eye glasses.(both my daughters wear glasses) the cat was the boss of the house. then an argument started about a girl in their class...kristen saussy...one twin said it was kristen sausage and the other refuted her. then the doll family had tea. then my wife came home and said i could go to work but i stayed for an extra half hour to play dolls. i realize today, it was a perfect day. patrick np. dishwasher ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 9 Dec 2000 08:42:47 EST From: SCJoniGuy@aol.com Subject: Re: perfect day - njc << one of my favorite bands is collective soul.>> Collective Soul gets dissed sometimes for not being "serious" artists, but they do a fine job of what they do...MOR, up the middle rock filled with hooks. I've got a copule of their discs too, their first 2. << i realize today, it was a perfect day. >> Yes indeed, Pat...no one ever said on their death bed "Gee, I sure wish I had spent more time at work!" :~) Bob NP: BTO, "You Ain't Seen Nothin' Yet" ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 9 Dec 2000 09:24:35 EST From: MGVal@aol.com Subject: Re: perfect day - njc In a message dated 12/09/2000 4:59:00 AM Pacific Standard Time, Siresorrow@aol.com writes: << then my wife came home and said i could go to work but i stayed for an extra half hour to play dolls. i realize today, it was a perfect day. >> Lovely post. You can play cards or sports or boardgames with your kids, but when you get to take that step and play their imaginary games, you've entered an incredibly special world. My two youngest and I would play Barber Shop. I was the hapless customer and they were the barber. My hair would get lathered with creams and jells and adorned with ribbons and bows while they chattered and had Barbie handle the front reception desk and stuffed animal #37 gave critical evaluations of my coiffure. Stuffed animal #17 gave me a pedicure and throughout it all, I felt like a guest in a fairy world. Lucky you, Patrick. MG -sleepin' in on Saturday..... ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 9 Dec 2000 09:36:23 -0600 From: "kerry" Subject: John Lennon tribute (NJC) Just wanted to share a special John Lennon experience last night. My 16 year old niece asked me if I would take her to a small, local club for a John Lennon tribute concert. (She needed to go with a "parent" to get in.) I'm always open to a new musical experience, so I agreed to go. I enjoyed it much more than I thought I would. It was 5 hours of some of Milwaukee's best talent: Victor de Lorenzo (of Violent Femmes fame), Sammy Llanas (of Bodeans fame), Mrs. Fun (who have backed up the Indigo Girls on a couple albums) and Willy Porter. It gave me a new appreciation of John's music and a night I won't soon forget! Kerry NP - "Ramblin' Round" - Indigo Girls with Ani Difranco ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 9 Dec 2000 11:08:52 EST From: Relayer211@aol.com Subject: Re: Ayn Rand and HUAC - NJC In a message dated 12/9/00 7:41:00 AM Eastern Standard Time, Siresorrow@aol.com writes: << << Maybe she was too much head and not enough heart. >> sounds like al gore, although marcel would say it's being too generous. >> I guess 1 out of 2 isn't bad.too bad Bush has neither. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 9 Dec 2000 12:50:12 EST From: FHejira@aol.com Subject: appoliges g'day from down under,sorry for forgetting to put name to post.garret asked which of joni's music I prefer and what else I listen to .let me start by saying that back in the early seventy's I became friendly with two canadian guys who had moved in next door to me,lets call them john and paul,because I was to discover that they had stowed away on a cruise ship from Europe. they asked me if I knew if ice hockey was played in oz,as it happened my boss had represented australia in speed skating at rome olympics and did in fact play for a team called St George dragons,after introductions they were very quickly added to the side which was made up of about five nationalities. One night after a great win over interstate rivals victoria quite a bit drinking and celebrating john who had a wonderful voice got up and sang a song new to every one there called twisted .the next day I asked him where he learnt it and who sang it.the rest is history.my first vinyl of Joni was m.o.a and I have eleven of her c'ds.as for Joni favs they change regulary,however hejira and court and spark seem to pop up on the player a bit more than the others. I am also a big prince fan,frank zapper,pink floyd,and of late Anita baker. While i'm typing I should also mention neil young,james taylor/carly simon etc, etc. the only video's I have of Joni are the last waltz and the wall,and would welcome any suggestion's as to what else is available! to finish up i would like to say that i consider it a privilege to be on this list. b.w.frank. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 9 Dec 2000 13:34:09 EST From: MDESTE1@aol.com Subject: Fwd: The will of the people (NJC) only for those with a sense of humor Return-path: From: MDESTE1@aol.com Full-name: MDESTE1 Message-ID: <96.d253828.2763c191@aol.com> Date: Sat, 9 Dec 2000 12:10:41 EST Subject: (no subject) To: MDESTE1@aol.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: Windows AOL sub 126 [Unable to display image] ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 9 Dec 2000 19:35:09 -0300 From: "Wally Kairuz" Subject: A Short Tutorial on The Blues NJC I never pass these things on, but this one done make me chuckle. signed: festering testicle lemon jefferson >>Subject: A Short Tutorial on The Blues >> >> > > >> > How to Sing the Blues by Lame Mango Washington >> > (attributed to Memphis Earlene Gray with help from Uncle Plunky, >with >> > revisions by Little Blind Patti D. and Dr. Stevie Franklin) >> > 1. Most Blues begin, "Woke up this morning." >> > >> > 2. "I got a good woman," is a bad way to begin the Blues, 'less you >> > stick something nasty in the next line: "I got a good woman - with >the >> > meanest face in town." >> > >> > 3. The Blues is simple. After you get the first line right, repeat >> > it. >> > Then find something that rhymes ... sort of: "Got a good woman - >with >> > the meanest face in town. Got teeth like Margaret Thatcher - and she >> > weigh 500 pound." >> > >> > > 4. The Blues are not about choice. You stuck in a >> > > ditch: You stuck in a >> > > ditch, ain't no way out. >> > > >> > > 5. Blues cars: Chevys and Cadillacs and broken down >> > > trucks. Blues don't >> > > travel in Volvos, BMWs, or SUV's. Most Blues >> > > transportation is a >> > > Greyhound bus or a southbound train. >> > > Jet aircraft and state-sponsored motor pools ain't >> > > even in the running. >> > > Walkin' plays a major part in the blues lifestyle. >> > > So does fixin' to >> > > die. >> > > >> > > 6. Teenagers can't sing the Blues. They ain't fixin >> > > to die yet. Adults >> > > sing the Blues. In Blues, "adulthood" means being >> > > old enough to get the >> > > electric chair if you shoot a man in Memphis. >> > > >> > > 7. Blues can take place in New York City, but not in >> > > Hawaii or any place >> > > in Canada. Hard times in St. Paul or Tucson is just >> > > depression. Chicago, >> > > St. Louis, and Kansas City still the best places to >> > > have the Blues. You >> > > cannot have the blues in any place that don't get >> > > rain. >> > > >> > > 8. A man with male pattern baldness ain't the blues. >> > > A woman with male >> > > pattern baldness is. Breaking your leg cuz you >> > > skiing is not the blues. >> > > Breaking your leg cuz an alligator be chomping on it >> > > is. >> > > >> > > 9. You can't have no Blues in an office or a >> > > shopping mall. The lighting >> > > is wrong. Go outside to the parking lot or sit by >> > > the dumpster. >> > > 10. Good places for the Blues: >> > > a. highway >> > > b. jailhouse >> > > c. empty bed >> > > d. bottom of a whiskey glass >> > > Bad places: >> > > a. Ashrams >> > > b. gallery openings >> > > c. Ivy League institutions >> > > d. golf courses >> > > >> > > 11. No one will believe it's the Blues if you wear a >> > > suit, 'less you >> > > happen to be an old black man, and you slept in it. >> > > >> > > 12. Do you have the right to sing the Blues? >> > > Yes, if: >> > > a. you're older than dirt >> > > b. you're blind >> > > c. you shot a man in Memphis >> > > d. you can't be satisfied >> > > No, if: >> > > a. you have all your teeth >> > > b. you were once blind but now can see >> > > c. the man in Memphis lived. >> > > d. you have a retirement plan or trust >> > > fund >> > > >> > > 13. Blues is not a matter of color. It's a matter of >> > > bad luck. Tiger >> > > Woods cannot sing the blues. Gary Coleman could. >> > > Ugly white people also >> > > got a leg up on the blues. >> > > >> > > 14. If you ask for water and Baby give you gasoline, >> > > it's the Blues. >> > > Other acceptable Blues beverages are: >> > > a. wine >> > > b. whiskey or bourbon >> > > c. muddy water >> > > d. black coffee >> > > The following are NOT Blues beverages: >> > > a. mixed drinks >> > > b. kosher wine >> > > c. Snapple >> > > d. sparkling water >> > > >> > > 15. If it occurs in a cheap motel or a shotgun >> > > shack, it's a Blues >> > > death. Stabbed in the back by a jealous lover is >> > > another Blues way to >> > > die. So is the electric chair, substance abuse, and >> > > dying lonely in a >> > > broken down cot. You can't have a Blues death if you >> > > die during a tennis >> > > match or getting liposuction. >> > > >> > > 16. Some Blues names for women: >> > > a. Sadie >> > > b. Big Mama >> > > c. Bessie >> > > d. Fat River Dumpling >> > > >> > > 17. Some Blues names for men: >> > > a. Joe >> > > b. Willie >> > > c. Little Willie >> > > d. Big Willie >> > > >> > > 18. Persons with names like Sierra, Sequoia, and >> > > Rainbow can't sing the >> > > Blues no matter how many men they shoot in Memphis. >> > > >> > > 19. Make yer own Blues name (starter kit): >> > > a. name of physical infirmity (Blind, >> > > Cripple, Lame, etc.) >> > > b. first name (see above) plus name of >> > > fruit (Lemon, Lime, >> > > Kiwi,etc.) >> > > c. last name of President (Jefferson, >> > > Johnson, Fillmore, etc.) >> > > >> > > For example, Blind Lime Jefferson, or >> > > Cripple Kiwi Fillmore, etc. >> > > >> > > 20. I don't care how tragic your life; you own a >> > > computer, you cannot >> > > sing the blues. You best destroy it. Fire, a spilled >> > > bottle of MadDog, >> > > or shotgun. Maybe your big woman just done sit on it ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 9 Dec 2000 22:29:19 -0500 From: "Christopher J. Treacy" Subject: Frustration With Ebay...VLJC Ok, So this is probably old news to y'all, but this Ebay thing is TRULY EVIL! This is the second time I've done a 'sweep' over items related to my fave artists (including JM, of course), and have ended up bidding on about a "c-note's' worth of stuff. Now, in and of itself that's not SO horrible, but then the 'out-bidding' starts, and I get caught in the whirlwind of obsessive/compulsive 'gotta-have-it' thinking, and the next thing you know, I'm glued to my moniter waiting for the next out-bid notice so I don't lose out. Anybody have any strategies for winning w/o fuss and muss? PS: I ordered that strange JM Tribute album "Came Upon A Child Of God" on Amazon, as it comes out Tuesday. Does anyone know anything about the artists involved? It looks like 3 bands/singers cover the whole set. Where are they from? I have this odd feeling it's gonna be a hardcore comp. or something. - -Chris ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 9 Dec 2000 22:59:48 EST From: IVPAUL42@aol.com Subject: Re: Frustration With Ebay...VLJC In a message dated 12/9/00 10:58:14 PM Eastern Standard Time, magpie119@juno.com writes: << Anybody have any strategies for winning w/o fuss and muss? >> In the e-bay game, the only winners are those who do not play. Paul I ------------------------------ End of JMDL Digest V2000 #648 ***************************** ------- Post messages to the list by clicking here: mailto:joni@smoe.org Unsubscribe by clicking here: mailto:joni-digest-request@smoe.org?body=unsubscribe ------- Siquomb, isn't she?