From: les@jmdl.com (JMDL Digest) To: joni-digest@smoe.org Subject: JMDL Digest V2000 #646 Reply-To: joni@smoe.org Sender: les@jmdl.com Errors-To: les@jmdl.com Precedence: bulk Unsubscribe: mailto:joni-digest-request@smoe.org?body=unsubscribe Archives: http://www.smoe.org/lists/joni Websites: http://www.jmdl.com http://www.jonimitchell.com JMDL Digest Friday, December 8 2000 Volume 2000 : Number 646 The 'Official' Joni Mitchell Homepage, created by Wally Breese, can be found at http://www.jonimitchell.com. It contains the latest news, a detailed bio, Original Interviews, essays, lyrics and much much more. The JMDL website can be found at http://www.jmdl.com and contains interviews, articles, the member gallery, archives, and much more. ========== TOPICS and authors in this Digest: -------- Re: Happy Xmas (War is Over)NJC ["At Home Accnt" ] Ayn Rand and HUAC - NJC [CarltonCT@aol.com] Re: First Time ["Megan" ] Dog Eat Dog [Bob.Muller@fluor.com] Re: First Time [Don Rowe ] Joni's Cousins @ Mendel (long) [SMEBD@aol.com] Re: Happy Xmas (War is Over)NJC ["C.A. Starkey" ] Re: Happy Xmas (War is Over)NJC [RoseMJoy@aol.com] another newcomer ["DIRK GINDT" ] Re: Joni's Cousins @ Mendel (long) [RoseMJoy@aol.com] Re: Happy Xmas (War is Over)NJC [mags ] Re: another newcomer [Bob.Muller@fluor.com] Live Dar (NJC) [Steve Dulson ] Today in Joni History - December 8 [Today in Joni History ] Re: Ayn Rand and HUAC - NJC [catman ] Re: Dog Eat Dog [catman ] Re: First Time [catman ] Re: Happy Xmas (War is Over)NJC [catman ] 1st posting/ video tree info/ SF Jonifest [Matthew ] VH1 Profiles John Lennon tonight NJC [RoseMJoy@aol.com] Re: 1st posting/ video tree info/ SF Jonifest [Bob.Muller@fluor.com] Lord Jim's [Steve Dulson ] John Lennon NJC [AzeemAK@aol.com] Re: First Time [Don Rowe ] Re: First Time [Don Rowe ] Greetings from the frozen wasteland - njc [Catherine McKay ] Re: John Lennon NJC ["C.A. Starkey" ] Re: joni "post-modern" [Don Rowe ] Re: Happy Xmas (War is Over)NJC [Catherine McKay ] Re: Dog Eat Dog ["Mike Hicks" ] Re: Happy Xmas (War is Over)NJC [mags ] Re: Dog Eat Dog ["Megan" ] Today in Joni History - December 10 [Today in Joni History ] Today in Joni History - December 9 [Today in Joni History ] attention Toronto Joni people mini Fest news [mags ] Fw: First Time ["Megan" ] "Help me" played on radio today! [Relayer211@aol.com] ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Fri, 8 Dec 2000 04:13:20 -0500 From: "At Home Accnt" Subject: Re: Happy Xmas (War is Over)NJC Oh Johnnie, we hardly knew ye. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 8 Dec 2000 05:31:07 EST From: CarltonCT@aol.com Subject: Ayn Rand and HUAC - NJC I'm hoping to write a future screenplay about Ayn Rand and Frank Lloyd Wright. Wright was the model for Howard Roark in THE FOUNTAINHEAD which I found to be a thoroughly entertaining novel as a youth, especially since it plugs into my fascination with architecture. ATLAS SHRUGGED is a grossly over written novel, but the Fountainhead has a very well crafted narrative -- you just have to keep reading to find out what's going to happen. The characters are well drawn and Roark is the most compelling because of his deep seated conviction to his original visions. Only a few years ago I made a decision to be like Howard Roark in whatever original work I commenced, to please myself first, and let everybody else think whatever. Like Roark, that means working in my own equivalent of a marble quarry at times. As a religious skeptic, I have no problem with Ayn Rand being an atheist. I don't believe human beings have to have a spiritual life in order to be complete. Science doesn't destroy the mysteries of life, it only leads us even further into them, extending a sense of awe and cosmic intrigue which rivals that of a religious holy moment. Rand was also writing from the perspective of a Russian Jewish emigree who had escaped Stalinism. She was absolutely right to see that Soviet style communism destroyed personal initiative and created a static, even paralyzed society. Many scholars question whether Rand had any real ideas of her own. She would like to have been considered a philosopher, but she is not accepted as one by philosophical academics. Her ideas were mostly culled from Nietzsche and the only thing new about these ideas was her re-naming them. My undergraduate degree is in English Literature, and Ayn Rand was never taught at either UCLA or Boston University where I went to school. None of my friends who are English professors have ever taken and would not give a class that included the novels of Ayn Rand. As an author, she is just not taken that seriously. I think her books are important in the same way that books like JUSTINE or THE STORY OF O or INTERVIEW WITH THE VAMPIRE or even GONE WITH THE WIND are important, because they provide insight into a mindset. They are not important so much for what the author intends, but more for what they express in an unconscious way. Contrary to the French deconstructionists, I think it's always important to examine the life of an author along with his/her books. In Ayn Rand's case, from all acounts, her personal life was a disaster, and very often, the lives of those around her were also made disastrous. She was the head of a cult with the typical dynamic of any cult: she enjoyed the sexual favors of a number of young, male acolytes and excommunicated anyone who defied her or questioned the principles of Objectivism. Her ruthless self-promotion, lust for power and unmitigated greed were her complete undoing and all of her personal relationships were hopelessly troubled. She turned on the psychologist Nathaniel Brandon after he left her and continued to battle him for years afterwards as the ultimate woman scorned. Brandon wrote about it in a fascinating book which excoriates his former mentor. Also interesting is a book called THE CULT OF AYN RAND which any serious Rand devotee should read to see what the actual results of "objectivism" are as practiced by its originator. Rand's books have some dangerous elements that should be examined. One of the things that made THE FOUNTAINHEAD so interesting is that the woman in love with Howard Roark expresses her love for him by trying to destroy him. I suppose Ayn would say that this character chose to be an obstacle in order to present Roark with challenges that would only push him to further excellence. It's an interesting idea for a novel, but that kind of behavior should never be a prescription for an actual relationship. At least two of Ayn's female characters are into provoking men to some extreme where they finally drag them off, cave man style, to submit them to total sexual domination. The most dangerous idea that Rand promotes is the one that some of us are superior to the rest of the humans -- we're just waiting for John Galt to gather us up with all the other homo superiors. This is an appealing idea for people who have been marginalized, or feel as if they are, which is why Ayn Rand has such a strong homosexual following. Frank Lloyd Wright was an undeniable genius, but he had his own cult and his own behavior was shamelessly amoral. End result was a life wrought with sensational tragedies. It reminds me of Joni talking about how all her artistic heroes, Picasso and Miles Davis among them, were monsters. I don't think you have to be a monster to be a genius. One of my own heroes, Woody Allen, is a monster, and I understand why some people have a hard time separating his art from the man. In the case of Ayn Rand, you see someone who lives out the philosophy she espouses and the result is disastrous both for herself, the people around her, the people she names in the HUAC hearings. She was the ultimate narcissist who treated all others as objects for her own manipulation. Imagine what kind of f*cked up world we would have if everybody behaved the same way. All service may be self-serving, all actions for others are done for ourselves, but there is total selfishness and there is moral, considerate selfishness which recognizes that all of us are embedded in the same social context, and that our interactions should be mutually fulfilling and never exploitive. Someone else on this list already said something which is so true: the world need as much love and compassion as we can all muster. - - Clark NP: Petuala Clark - Greatest Hits ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 8 Dec 2000 06:53:55 -0500 From: "Megan" Subject: Re: First Time Well I'm new to the list as well,Don,and since noone's asked me yet what I think of DED I'm going to give you my humble opinion anyway.I actually really loved that album except for a few minor points: 1) Wasn't crazy about the music of "Fiction", which was NOT written by Joni,but by Larry Klein(liked the words written by Joni,though;it was a scathing attack on all forms of media.) 2)I felt the frequent use of "spoken words" throughout the album sometimes actually detracted from what was otherwise a great song.IMHO that was best depicted on "Tax Free", where the music was very good(and here Larry Klein wrote the music),but I found Rod Steiger's bellowing to interfere with the flow of the music.I realize what Joni was trying to do here,but I think the song would have been better without it. Now, as for what I liked about thye rest of the album,I would have to say EVERYTHING! My particular favorites are: 1) Good Friends-love this- a great song to dance to and Michael McDonald's vocals are perfect! 2) Smokin'(Empty,try another)- I LOVE this ! Joni's "playing" of the cigarette machine was nothing short of brilliant, showing she can make great music out of anything!I only wished this song lasted alot longer. 3) Ethiopia- I have heard some call this depressing, but I call it profound and moving.Another one of Joni's haunting songs thats hard to forget once you've heard it. 4) Impossible Dreamer-My favorite song on the album;sounds like it could have fit in beautifully on DJRD,another gorgeous, jazz-inflected song accentuated perfectly by Wayne Shorter's sax. 5) Lucky Girl-a beautiful love song to Larry,made all the more poignant by the knowledge of their break-up. As for the rest, I love it,too, these were just my fav picks from DED. And anyone out there who doesn't already know the joys of DED, give it another listen! :-) Megan ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 8 Dec 2000 08:36:10 -0500 From: Bob.Muller@fluor.com Subject: Dog Eat Dog Nice post Megan...way to jump in! <<2) I found Rod Steiger's bellowing to interfere with the flow of the music.I realize what Joni was trying to do here,but I think the song would have been better without it.>> Never thought of that before, but thinking about it, I would have to agree, although she was REALLY pissed at the Falwells of the world and wanted to make sure that everyone knew who her target was. <<2) Smokin'(Empty,try another)- I LOVE this ! Joni's "playing" of the cigarette machine was nothing short of brilliant, showing she can make great music out of anything!I only wished this song lasted alot longer.>> As it is, it's something of a throwaway, but I agree that had it been fleshed out a bit it coulda been a contender! Larry's Flea-like bass thumps are fun. In a like manner, Ani Difranco does a great remake of "To The Teeth" where she uses the synchopation of a ricocheting bullet to introduce the song, an anti-gun tune that's one of my favorite tracks of the year. << 3) Ethiopia- I have heard some call this depressing, but I call it profound and moving.Another one of Joni's haunting songs thats hard to forget once you've heard it. >> Opens the waterworks for me every time. I'm truly surprised that no other artists have done it, it's such an emotional song. Far and away the best thing on the record. << 4) Impossible Dreamer-My favorite song on the album;sounds like it could have fit in beautifully on DJRD,another gorgeous, jazz-inflected song accentuated perfectly by Wayne Shorter's sax. >> And an appropriate song to mention on the anniversary of John Lennon's death...she says this song was about him, about Dr. King, and to all the Impossible Dreamers who are assassinated because they dared to give hope. And if you like DED, you should hear her RockMaster Class 1985 Interview. Besides a revealing and enjoyable discussion with Joni & Larry, you hear Joni play unplugged versions of Three Great Stimulants, Impossible Dreamer, Dog Eat Dog, and a little piano improvisation that will give you CHILLS the first time you hear it! She also talks about the making of DED and provides lots of insights into its production. It's available to any interested JMDL'er, and would great a great stocking stuffer! ;~) Bob NP: XTC, "The Loving" - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- The information transmitted is intended only for the person or entity to which it is addressed and may contain confidential and/or privileged material. If you are not the intended recipient of this message you are hereby notified that any use, review, retransmission, dissemination, distribution, reproduction or any action taken in reliance upon this message is prohibited. If you received this in error, please contact the sender and delete the material from any computer. Any views expressed in this message are those of the individual sender and may not necessarily reflect the views of the company. - --------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 8 Dec 2000 07:18:09 -0800 (PST) From: Don Rowe Subject: Re: First Time - --- Megan wrote: > I actually really > loved that album except for a few minor points: > 1) Wasn't crazy about the music of "Fiction", which > was NOT written by > Joni,but by Larry Klein That's okay ... nobody likes "Nothing Can Be Done" either -- except my good friend Don, of course. 2) I found Rod Steiger's bellowing > to interfere with the > flow of the music. But without Steiger's monologue, that whole "FUCK IT!" line comes up empty ... don't you think? Now, as > for what I liked about > thye rest of the album,I would have to say > EVERYTHING! HOORAY! Long live Wayfarers, Ferrari Spiders, giant hair bows, pastels and mousse! Glad you chimed in ... I get WAY too much grief on this list. Larry Klein ===== Visit me anytime at http://www.mp3.com/donrowe Yahoo! Shopping - Thousands of Stores. Millions of Products. http://shopping.yahoo.com/ ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 8 Dec 2000 10:20:28 EST From: SMEBD@aol.com Subject: Joni's Cousins @ Mendel (long) As many may remember, I made an unsuccessful attempt to go to the Mendel opening over the July 4th weekend (I still haven't forgiven Air Canada), but was finally successful Labor Day weekend. Minutes after arriving at the Mendel, one of the guards saw me sign the guest book and remarked about the fact that we had traveled from NY. I told him about July 4th, and he stated that if we were such big fans of Joni, there were some people that we would probably enjoy meeting. He walked us over to a group of 3 women and introduced us to Joni's first cousins. We talked to them for some time and the 5 of us took a tour of the exhibit with one of the staff members. Throughout the tour they regaled us with stories of Joni. They were very proud of her and her accomplishments. One of the cousins wanted to know if we had seen the TNT Tribute. She asked several questions about it and expressed disappointment that it wasn't aired in Canada. I told her that if she didn't mind giving me her address, I would be glad to make a copy. When we got back to NY, I set about making copies and artwork. I sent each of the 3 cousins a copy and enclosed one for Bill and Myrtle. This was sometime around the end of September. Yesterday I received a package in the mail (a package that was in a plastic bag from the US Postal Service apologizing for the fact that it was somewhat damaged while being processed/handled--luckly the contents weren't damaged). In the package was a copy of the Elm Street magazine containing the "Joni Mitchell Portrait Of The Artist As A Young Woman" article and a very lovely thank you note from the cousins. The note reads: Dear Stephen and Rusty, Thank you so very much for sending us copies of the All Star Tribute to Joni. We've watched it several times and it thrills us to see the high regard many have for Joni. It was a pleasure for us to meet both of you at the art exhibit. We had a wonderful time in Saskatoon. Our first viewing of the Tribute Concert was with Joni's mom and dad and we were all brought to tears. We have enclosed a recent magazine that mentions both the art exhibit and the All Star Tribute. Hope you are both well. Thanks again. Debbie, Vicky and Betty The note and magazine really made me feel so great that I wanted to share it with the list. Stephen ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 07 Dec 2000 20:35:51 -0500 From: "C.A. Starkey" Subject: Re: Happy Xmas (War is Over)NJC I listened to it last night and indeed the lister whose name I forget was RIGHT it was "Happy Xmas Kyoko, Happy Xmas, Julian", I thought John and Yoko were playing on the concept of instead of wishing Happy Xmas to each other, they'd say their own name as a play on words. Carol ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 8 Dec 2000 10:40:41 EST From: RoseMJoy@aol.com Subject: Re: Happy Xmas (War is Over)NJC That be me. I copied the lyrics from a Lennon site, so I wasn't sure either. I haven't heard that song lately. I'll have to download the MP3. Rose in NJ there's a little bit of the white stuff coming down. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 8 Dec 2000 16:48:34 +0100 From: "DIRK GINDT" Subject: another newcomer Hello everybody! I just recieved my first message from the "Mad Tea Party" - while listening to DOG EAT DOG. So much for the appreciation, Don!... :-) I agree with you, this album is way too underrated. But then again, isn4t any Joni album since THOSM?!?! I have two questions. There is no way of getting hold of Don Juan or Miles here in Sweden (where I live). I sure can and will order these records from the internet, but still. Does anybody know if the European section of the record company has decided to take them out of their catalogue? That would be a shame!!!!!! Second question. What album do you think is best for new listeners? I was planning to surprise all my friends with a Joni CD for Christmas. They4ve never listened to her before - I know I have pretty weird friends which is why I want to introduce them to Jonis magic. I was thinking that "Turbulent Indigo" might be a good starter. I guess that4s all for now. Thank you! Dirk ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 8 Dec 2000 10:52:56 EST From: RoseMJoy@aol.com Subject: Re: Joni's Cousins @ Mendel (long) In a message dated 12/8/00 10:34:48 AM Eastern Standard Time, SMEBD@aol.com writes: << It was a pleasure for us to meet both of you at the art exhibit. We had a wonderful time in Saskatoon. Our first viewing of the Tribute Concert was with Joni's mom and dad and we were all brought to tears. We have enclosed a recent magazine that mentions both the art exhibit and the All Star Tribute. >> Stephen, How very nice of you. And to think you made a difference in their lives. Bless your heart. I'd love to see that issue of Elm Street. Rose in NJ ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 08 Dec 2000 11:05:26 -0600 From: mags Subject: Re: Happy Xmas (War is Over)NJC RoseMJoy@aol.com wrote: > <> to which Mags responds, thinking of those of you who are fascinated with weather and especially Canadian weather ;) there's A LOT of the white stuff coming down here. Winter is upon us for certain. Beginning with Tuesday when all hell broke loose on the highways and streets where I live. For those of you familiar with the area, I left Burlington, went down Brant Street to go to the QEW but it was closed...then I took my only choice home which was Plains Road headed toward Hamilton. A trip which normally takes ten minutes on the highway took 2 hours and 25 minutes. Thank goodness I had some music in the car . (Dead Can Dance). I was soooo very cold I couldnt stop shaking for hours. Mags, just going for a run....oooooobaby its cold out there :))) - -- --------------------------------------------------------------------- _~O / /\_, ___/\ /_ - ----------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 8 Dec 2000 11:25:36 -0500 From: Bob.Muller@fluor.com Subject: Re: another newcomer Allow me to roll out the Welcome Wagon again...welcome to you Dirk! << What album do you think is best for new listeners? >> TI is a little too dark for a new listener, I would think. Of course, you know your friends better than I do! Maybe you want to introduce them by way of either "Hits", "Misses", or both! Then they can decide the "sound" they like and dive in to that period. Good luck and let us know which way you decide to go! Bob NP: XTC, "Your Dictionary" - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- The information transmitted is intended only for the person or entity to which it is addressed and may contain confidential and/or privileged material. If you are not the intended recipient of this message you are hereby notified that any use, review, retransmission, dissemination, distribution, reproduction or any action taken in reliance upon this message is prohibited. If you received this in error, please contact the sender and delete the material from any computer. Any views expressed in this message are those of the individual sender and may not necessarily reflect the views of the company. - --------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 8 Dec 2000 08:46:57 -0800 From: Steve Dulson Subject: Live Dar (NJC) I know there are some Dar Williams fans on the list - there is a live interview with her, along with four solo acoustic versions of "Green World" songs at: http://www.ukans.edu/cwis/units/kanufm/public_html/folk.html Really nice to hear these songs solo! - -- ######################################################## Steve Dulson Costa Mesa CA steve@psitech.com "The Tinker's Own" http://www.tinkersown.com "Southern California Dulcimer Heritage" http://members.aol.com/scdulcimer/ "The Living Tradition Concert Series" http://www.thelivingtradition.org/ ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 08 Dec 2000 03:17:00 -0700 From: Today in Joni History Subject: Today in Joni History - December 8 1996: The LA Times "Calendar" section runs an article on Hits and Misses in which Joni explains her inspiration for a number of songs, saying about Both Sides Now, "I was reading Saul Bellow's 'Henderson the Rain King' on a plane and early in the book Henderson the Rain King is also up in a plane. He's on his way to Africa and he looks down and sees these clouds. I put down the book, looked out the window and saw clouds too and I immediately started writing the song. I had no idea that the song would become as popular as it did." Read the full article at http://www.jmdl.com/articles/docs/961208lat.cfm - -------- Know a date or month specific Joni tidbit? Send it off to JoniFact@jmdl.com and we'll add it to the list. - -------- ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 08 Dec 2000 17:10:20 +0000 From: catman Subject: Re: Ayn Rand and HUAC - NJC CarltonCT@aol.com wrote: > I'm hoping to write a future screenplay about Ayn Rand and Frank Lloyd > > > All service may be self-serving, all actions for others are done for > ourselves, but there is total selfishness and there is moral, considerate > selfishness which recognizes that all of us are embedded in the same social > context, and that our interactions should be mutually fulfilling and never > exploitive. Everything we do is ultimately selfsih. There is no such thing as sacrifice. If we reach out to someone in distress we do so for the relief of the pain their distress causes us. What we do to another we do to ourselves. We get back what we give out. Even those who say they do good because they love God are fooling themselves. they do it to be in God's good books. Even when the motive is love of others, it is still a selfish act. The worst kind of life and the most painful, is one spent only taking. Without giving there is no keeping. The only way to have love is to give love. If you doubt the truth of getting what you give, look around the world and it's troubles and tell me where giving hatred resulted in receiving love in return. Tell me where giving judgement resulted in love received. Tell me where taking resulted in love received. Tell me where condemnation resulted in love receieved. Tell me where arrogance resulted in love received. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 08 Dec 2000 17:12:43 +0000 From: catman Subject: Re: Dog Eat Dog Bob.Muller@fluor.com wrote: > Nice post Megan...way to jump in! > > <<2) I found Rod Steiger's bellowing to interfere with the > flow of the music.I realize what Joni was trying to do here,but I think the > song would have been better without it.>> > > Never thought of that before, but thinking about it, I would have to agree, > although she was REALLY pissed at the Falwells of the world and wanted to > make sure that everyone knew who her target was. I have the opposite view. Steiger's rant makes the song. To remove it would be like taking the smile off the Mona Lisa. > > > < ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 08 Dec 2000 17:14:14 +0000 From: catman Subject: Re: First Time Don Rowe wrote: > --- Megan wrote: > > I actually really > > loved that album except for a few minor > points: > > 1) Wasn't crazy about the music of "Fiction", which > > was NOT written by > > Joni,but by Larry Klein > > That's okay ... nobody likes "Nothing Can Be Done" > either -- except my good friend Don, of course. > > Larry-I love that song. Why shouldn't she bitch if she wants to? ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 08 Dec 2000 17:17:04 +0000 From: catman Subject: Re: Happy Xmas (War is Over)NJC mags wrote: > RoseMJoy@aol.com wrote: > > > <> > I wish there was here. Instead we have more floods, people drowned, high winds. This is a real pain. it has done nothing but f***ing rain now for months. Even the poor dogs hate it. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 8 Dec 2000 09:40:51 -0800 (PST) From: Matthew Subject: 1st posting/ video tree info/ SF Jonifest Hey there, This is my first posting. It's such a cool thing to see how many other devoted fans are out there, although I don't know how many are of my generation (mid-20s). I wanted to know how I can be part of the video tree. Is it trade-oriented? I currently have four videos: Painting With Words and Music, Refuge of the Roads, the TNT Tribute Show (which I found to be of dubious musical quality but hey, at least it took place) and The Wall Live in Berlin. But I want more!!! Also, I missed the boat on the upcoming SF Jonifest. Can anyone clue me in to the procedure? Favorite Joni disc: Don Juan's Reckless Daughter (can you say unacknowledged master work?) NP: "hejira", Black Eyed Peas' "bridging the gap" & Sade's "lover's rock" Yahoo! Shopping - Thousands of Stores. Millions of Products. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 8 Dec 2000 10:02:46 -0800 From: "Patrick Willoughby" Subject: joni "post-modern" "Christmas is sparklin' out on Carol's lawn". Welcome indeed Wayne. And it's been interesting to watch the TNT special (thanks again Jim l'Hommedieu). But I am so tired of the perception that "Joni Mitchell" is an entity that existed only prior to 1980, and then dropped off into some other plane. I guess the merchandisers behind projects like the AllStar Tribute had to be mindful of their audience and their sponsors, but what about post 80s songs like "Night Ride Home", "My Secret Place", "Lucky Girl", "Yvette in English", "Come in From the Cold". Why not Sinead O'Connor doing a fraught version of "Magdalene Laundries". I know that late Mitchell is harder to cover, as the work is darker and more particular, but geez world, I get tired of the "Circle Game", no matter how brilliant Sweet Honey in the Rock are. Okay, so much for my rant. Well, not quite. How many cover versions of "River" do we need, after all? In a much earlier comment, one of the Pauls touched on the idea that maybe it would take another 20 years for the culture to recognize Mitchells later work. Well, dammit, I'll be in my 60s by then. Let's get them onboard sooner! Peace, Patrick in Vancouver. PS. I get a little depressed in November, and need to ramp myself up in December, I guess this was it. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 8 Dec 2000 13:16:36 EST From: RoseMJoy@aol.com Subject: VH1 Profiles John Lennon tonight NJC VH1 is profiling John Lennon tonight at 7pm ET Then, Behind the Music : SHOW AIRS: FRI 12/8 at 12pm ET FRI 12/8 at 10pm ET SAT 12/9 at 8am ET MON 12/11 at 11pm ET TUE 12/26 at 12am ET Honoring his life on the 20th anniversary of his murder, VH1 presents Behind the Music - John Lennon: The Last Years. Featuring John telling his story in his own words, using candid and poignant interviews conducted during his final days, this special BTM chronicles a period of time often glossed over in other documentaries - the years John Lennon took for himself and his family, as well as the final months that marked his triumphant return to rock and roll. Also included are original interviews with Yoko Ono and Julian Lennon, as well as John's friend and confidant, Rolling Stone founder Jann Wenner. Accented with rare archival footage, their stories and others paint a portrait of the man behind the icon: the husband, father, and friend who found in his family the peace and inspiration to make music again Rose in NJ ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 8 Dec 2000 13:29:23 -0500 From: Bob.Muller@fluor.com Subject: Re: 1st posting/ video tree info/ SF Jonifest <> Welcome, Matthew! You'll find a healthy number of folks in your age group; indeed quite a few who are even younger! Just curious - how were you exposed to Joni's music? I'm always glad to see younger generations picking up on it. Bob NP(Now Playing): XTC, "Green Man" (NOT a sequel to Joni's Blue Boy! :~D) - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- The information transmitted is intended only for the person or entity to which it is addressed and may contain confidential and/or privileged material. If you are not the intended recipient of this message you are hereby notified that any use, review, retransmission, dissemination, distribution, reproduction or any action taken in reliance upon this message is prohibited. If you received this in error, please contact the sender and delete the material from any computer. Any views expressed in this message are those of the individual sender and may not necessarily reflect the views of the company. - --------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 8 Dec 2000 10:48:34 -0800 From: Steve Dulson Subject: Lord Jim's Being a bit bored at work today, and planning a trip to Victoria and Vancouver next February, I was surfing around and found: http://www.lordjims.com/ No doubt the site of Joni's PWWAM story (knitting in bed)? - -- ######################################################## Steve Dulson Costa Mesa CA steve@psitech.com "The Tinker's Own" http://www.tinkersown.com "Southern California Dulcimer Heritage" http://members.aol.com/scdulcimer/ "The Living Tradition Concert Series" http://www.thelivingtradition.org/ ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 8 Dec 2000 14:14:26 EST From: AzeemAK@aol.com Subject: John Lennon NJC I know there are some big John fans on the list (hi Paul!), so I thought you might like to hear what listeners to BBC London Live, London's best radio station, voted as their top JL tracks. Unfortunately, I didn't catch the whole order; I got the top 3 and 8-10, but the numbers in between are guestimates as to the exact sequence. 1. Jealous Guy 2. Imagine 3. Working Class Hero Merry Xmas War is Over Woman Watching the Wheels Instant Karma 8. No 9 Dream 9. Starting Over 10. Whatever Gets You Through The Night Glad to be of service Azeem in London NP: PJ Harvey - 4 Track Demos (my ongoing correspondence with Debra S made me dig this out, and it's a bit like jumping into a very cold river - shocking, brutal but somehow exhilerating) ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 8 Dec 2000 11:25:26 -0800 (PST) From: Don Rowe Subject: Re: First Time Shame on me, I'm afraid ... I'm only a Larry Klein impersonator. But you're in good company -- Peter Erskine (legendary Weather Report drummer, who provides rhythm on "Both Sides Now") e-mailed me a while back thinking I might be the real deal! ;-) So glad to hear I'm not alone in my love of "Nothing Can Be Done" as well! Totally agree that bass line is the bee's knees! Your daughter has EXCELLENT taste. So ... welcome to the list again! Sorry to have pulled your leg -- but hey, as James Taylor once penned: That's why I'm here! All the best, Don Rowe (and ONLY Don Rowe, really!) ===== Visit me anytime at http://www.mp3.com/donrowe Yahoo! Shopping - Thousands of Stores. Millions of Products. http://shopping.yahoo.com/ ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 8 Dec 2000 11:26:07 -0800 (PST) From: Don Rowe Subject: Re: First Time Shame on me, I'm afraid ... I'm only a Larry Klein impersonator. But you're in good company -- Peter Erskine (legendary Weather Report drummer, who provides rhythm on "Both Sides Now") e-mailed me a while back thinking I might be the real deal! ;-) So glad to hear I'm not alone in my love of "Nothing Can Be Done" as well! Totally agree that bass line is the bee's knees! Your daughter has EXCELLENT taste. So ... welcome to the list again! Sorry to have pulled your leg -- but hey, as James Taylor once penned: That's why I'm here! All the best, Don Rowe (and ONLY Don Rowe, really!) ps. Got a glitch on my mail ... please excuse multiple posts. ===== Visit me anytime at http://www.mp3.com/donrowe Yahoo! Shopping - Thousands of Stores. Millions of Products. http://shopping.yahoo.com/ ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 8 Dec 2000 14:29:24 -0500 (EST) From: Catherine McKay Subject: Greetings from the frozen wasteland - njc Just thought I'd stop by and say a big "Helloooo" to everyone. Been too busy/lazy to say much these days, (Yes, I am actually capable of shutting up), just kind of snoozing away, list-wise that is, ignoring American elections and so on, and actually doing my job, whatever that is. Greetings to all newbies - how's it going, eh? Our office just moved across the street from where we were and it takes a bit of getting used to, but, first impressions are, I like it better here - it's slightly further away from the chaos across the street and hence less pressured. The view from my window used to be lovely and now I've just got the condo next door, mostly brickwall, a few windows, blinds all closed (of course) and a wee patch of frozen street. But I'm further away from my boss, which can never be a bad thing. It is bloody cold here. Too cold for this time of year. And it's snowing, not hard, no great accumulations, but it's blowing around. Brr. Why did my ancestors pick Canada, for God's sake? They could have headed a bit further south. Jeez, I hate winter. Absolutely njc. 'Scuse me while I go back to sleep. Get your free @yahoo.ca address at http://mail.yahoo.ca ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 8 Dec 2000 11:35:57 -0800 (PST) From: Don Rowe Subject: Re: another newcomer - --- DIRK GINDT wrote: > Second question. What album do you think is best for > new listeners? I have hooked the most "unitiated" new listeners with "Night Ride Home." I think it combines a perfect blend of jazziness, acoustic guitar wizardry and lyrical strength that opens the door most easily to the rest of her catalog. Don Rowe ===== Visit me anytime at http://www.mp3.com/donrowe Yahoo! Shopping - Thousands of Stores. Millions of Products. http://shopping.yahoo.com/ ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 07 Dec 2000 23:52:37 -0500 From: "C.A. Starkey" Subject: Re: John Lennon NJC In no order Woman Is the NOTW Imagine Working Class Hero How? God Instant Karma Starting Over Woman Happy Xmas (War is Over) No 9 Dream I'm Losing You (oh i typed 11, well........well, well, well that's another one, gimme some truth, how do you sleep? oh there's too many it's like potato chips!) ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 8 Dec 2000 11:54:28 -0800 (PST) From: Don Rowe Subject: Re: joni "post-modern" - --- Patrick Willoughby wrote: > But I am so tired of the > perception that "Joni Mitchell" > is an entity that existed only prior to 1980, and > then > dropped off into some other plane. > but > what about > post 80s songs like "Night Ride Home", "My Secret > Place", "Lucky Girl", > "Yvette in English", "Come in From the Cold". Why Okay, color me crazy, but I would pay REAL money to hear Dixie Chicks do a cover of "Ray's Dad's Cadillac." Now before you flame me, just turn up the volume in your imagination and think about it ... ;-) Don Rowe ===== Visit me anytime at http://www.mp3.com/donrowe Yahoo! Shopping - Thousands of Stores. Millions of Products. http://shopping.yahoo.com/ ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 8 Dec 2000 15:07:13 -0500 (EST) From: Catherine McKay Subject: Re: Happy Xmas (War is Over)NJC - --- mags wrote: > RoseMJoy@aol.com wrote: > > there's A LOT of the white stuff coming down here. > Winter is upon us for > certain. Beginning with Tuesday when all hell broke > loose on the highways and > streets where I live. For those of you familiar with > the area, I left > Burlington, went down Brant Street to go to the QEW > but it was closed...then I > took my only choice home which was Plains Road > headed toward Hamilton. A trip > which normally takes ten minutes on the highway took > 2 hours and 25 minutes. You've got my sympathy. My daughter has a friend who moved to Hamilton (Ancaster, in fact) last year, and of course, they're *best* friends and just have to see each other every couple of weeks. So I've been schlepping back and forth between Toronto and Hamilton (or the other girl's parents coming the other way) on a regular basis. That area around Oakville/Burlington has just got to go! (and she always wants to listen to that freakin' CISS-FM station on the way). Right now, it's snowing here, but not that much, and gently at that, but it's blowing a lot. I understand just west of here (Oakville) is going to get really dumped on. We don't usually get much snow 'til New Year's Day or thereabouts, so it's not looking good, is it! And we had that subway fire so getting home is going to be fun... heehee! Get your free @yahoo.ca address at http://mail.yahoo.ca ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 8 Dec 2000 17:11:39 -0500 From: "Mike Hicks" Subject: Re: Dog Eat Dog > Date: Fri, 08 Dec 2000 17:12:43 +0000 > From: catman > To: Bob.Muller@Fluor.com > Cc: Megan , Joni@smoe.org > Subject: Re: Dog Eat Dog > Reply-to: catman > Bob.Muller@fluor.com wrote: > > > Nice post Megan...way to jump in! > > > > <<2) I found Rod Steiger's bellowing to interfere with the > > flow of the music.I realize what Joni was trying to do here,but I think the > > song would have been better without it.>> > > > > Never thought of that before, but thinking about it, I would have to agree, > > although she was REALLY pissed at the Falwells of the world and wanted to > > make sure that everyone knew who her target was. > > I have the opposite view. Steiger's rant makes the song. To remove it would be like taking the smile > off the Mona Lisa. Well, I like the album. I must like it a lot. I just spent $60.00 for the Mobile Fidelity CD copy. The last one they had by the way. Sorry. :( Mike > > > > > > > < ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 08 Dec 2000 16:55:51 -0600 From: mags Subject: Re: Happy Xmas (War is Over)NJC Catherine McKay wrote: > > > You've got my sympathy. My daughter has a friend who > moved to Hamilton (Ancaster, in fact) last year, and > of course, they're *best* friends and just have to see > each other every couple of weeks. So I've been > schlepping back and forth between Toronto and Hamilton > (or the other girl's parents coming the other way) on > a regular basis. That area around Oakville/Burlington > has just got to go! (and she always wants to listen > to that freakin' CISS-FM station on the way). > > Right now, it's snowing here, but not that much, and > gently at that, but it's blowing a lot. I understand > just west of here (Oakville) is going to get really > dumped on. We don't usually get much snow 'til New > Year's Day or thereabouts, so it's not looking good, > is it! gawd Catherine...I know that drive of which you spoke should really be named Hells Alley. Too many cars, not enough road. As far as the snow is concerned, I've heard we are in for record snow falls this year...damn anyway. As long as it doesnt bug up the roads, I dont really care. Went for a run in the stuff today which was an adventure. Other than a wonky ankle, it was wonderful. Ran to my new Dead Can Dance tape that a former co-worker sent. Mightily fine that. Side two has some wonderful African music...I think the drumming is perfect running music...reaches into the soul. Inspired by all the other little groupings around the globe, perhaps we should have our own little Toronto Joni Fest at the end of the month. Hmmmm. Food for thought. Tell me who is in the Toronto area and is this something that might work? Mags > > > And we had that subway fire so getting home is going > to be fun... heehee! > Get your free @yahoo.ca address at http://mail.yahoo.ca - -- - --------------------------------------------------------------------- _~O / /\_, ___/\ /_ - ----------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 8 Dec 2000 16:47:31 -0500 From: "Megan" Subject: Re: Dog Eat Dog - ----- Original Message ----- From: catman To: Cc: Megan ; Sent: Friday, December 08, 2000 12:12 PM Subject: Re: Dog Eat Dog >catman wrote: > >> I have the opposite view. Steiger's rant makes the song. To remove it would be like taking the smile > off the Mona Lisa. > O.K.,you guys, being the supreme Joni -worshipper that I am, I gave it another listen;well, O.K., maybe several,no, maybe like 10 or so. I'm starting to see what you mean:her rage @ the Falwells of the world was the heart of the song;that's why Steiger's rant was so crucial. You know, this is why I came to the list- to hear idea's & opinions other than my own so I can gain even greater insight into more facets of her music.I had strictly been looking @ it from the view point of what the rants did in breaking up the melodic flow of the music, not in terms of what impact they had to the song itself, & what Joni herself was trying to convey. Thanks--------Megan > > > > > > < ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 08 Dec 2000 15:40:16 -0700 From: Today in Joni History Subject: Today in Joni History - December 10 1966: Joni performs tonight and last night at the Folk Cellar III in Port Huron, Michigan. 1990: Joni presents an award at the Billboard Awards. From Wally's bio: Joni appeared at the Awards and presented the award for #1 World Single to Sinead O'Connor for her smash hit version of Prince's "Nothing Compares 2 U." Full story: http://www.jonimitchell.com/BillboardAwardSinead90.html - -------- Know a date or month specific Joni tidbit? Send it off to JoniFact@jmdl.com and we'll add it to the list. - -------- ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 08 Dec 2000 15:40:16 -0700 From: Today in Joni History Subject: Today in Joni History - December 9 1966: Contributed by Pat Henry: Joni performs tonight and tomorrow night at the Folk Cellar III in Port Huron, Michigan. This was one of her first appearances alone without Chuck Mitchell since she'd left Canada. See a copy of the ad that ran in the 'Port Huron Times-Herald' that week (Note that the price of admission was $1.25) http://homepages.go.com/~badwolff/albums/album1/pic4.html 1995: Billboard Magazine announced the Century Award with an article in today's issue, saying, in part "Observers and critics have occasionally called some of Joni Mitchell's song-writing "confessional." But that's not really true, because to confess something, one has to hesitate over the difficulties of the expression, and Joni Mitchell has never hesitated with any aspect of her music." Read the full article at: http://www.jmdl.com/articles/docs/951209bbx.cfm In the same issue, Billboard publishes a long article on Joni entitled "A Portrait of the Artist." An excerpt: "Few musicians of her stature have undergone more private and public trials. At the beginning, she had to fend off imitators and detractors of both sexes, plus the persistent jealousy of an early '60s folk school whose post-Dylan commercial/artistic strides she almost single-handedly eclipsed with three hugely influential Reprise albums." Read the full article at: http://www.jmdl.com/articles/docs/951209bb.cfm - -------- Know a date or month specific Joni tidbit? Send it off to JoniFact@jmdl.com and we'll add it to the list. - -------- ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 08 Dec 2000 18:59:43 -0600 From: mags Subject: attention Toronto Joni people mini Fest news If anyone out there is in the Toronto area...or Hamilton or nearby.... please let me know because Brian and I would like to organize a mini Fest here at my home. Ive got a cozy flat and I know it can work. Please write me privately so that we can get plans in place. Inspired by the little gatherings around the globe, I had written about this idea in an email to Catherine ... just wasnt sure that everyone would see it at the bottom, knowing sometimes that ppl scan and skim digests in particular. :)) Mags np: For Free - -- - --------------------------------------------------------------------- _~O / /\_, ___/\ /_ - ----------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 8 Dec 2000 18:26:48 -0500 From: "Megan" Subject: Fw: First Time - ----- Original Message ----- From: Megan To: catman Sent: Friday, December 08, 2000 5:51 PM Subject: Re: First Time > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: catman > To: Don Rowe > Cc: Megan ; > Sent: Friday, December 08, 2000 12:14 PM > Subject: Re: First Time > > > > > > > > Don Rowe wrote: > > > > > --- Megan wrote: > > > > I actually really > > > > loved that album except for a few minor > > > points: > > > > 1) Wasn't crazy about the music of "Fiction", which > > > > was NOT written by > > > > Joni,but by Larry Klein > > > > > > That's okay ... nobody likes "Nothing Can Be Done" > > > either -- except my good friend Don, of course. > > > > > > > > > > Larry-I love that song. Why shouldn't she bitch if she wants to? > > Well, Colin, seeing as I never said I hated "Fiction", nor > anything remotely that strong, it hardly qualifies as bitching.I simply said > I wasn't that crazy.. about it (in comparison to the other songs on that > CD).I even explained that to Larry in an E-mail I sent him.I believe he > understands what I mean. And as long as we're on the subject of Larry,I > would like to let you know how much I loved "Nothing Can Be Done".As I've > already let him know, his bass line was unbelievable on that song--even my > 7 yr. old daughter gets up and dances to it.It's one of those songs you > can't help but feeling to your bones, like "Don't interrupt the Sorrow". > Gee, I'd hate to think that even the mildest of criticisms (such as,"I'm not that crazy about it") can result in such a vitriolic reaction.Are we not free to express our views on this list? I certainly respect all of your views,and I hope you respect mine in return.I've already told you how your views on the rants in "Tax Free" caused me to re-listen and re-formulate my opinion previously expressed.In short, I listen to people with differing opinions than me,which sometimes causes me to look @ things from a different perspective,thus expanding my viewpoint as well.Hope I can do the same for you sometime. :~) Megan ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 8 Dec 2000 21:40:00 EST From: Relayer211@aol.com Subject: "Help me" played on radio today! I heard them play "Help me" today on the radio for only the second time today,and the first time on an oldies station!IT's nice that radio stations show taste in their programming once in a while! ------------------------------ End of JMDL Digest V2000 #646 ***************************** ------- Post messages to the list by clicking here: mailto:joni@smoe.org Unsubscribe by clicking here: mailto:joni-digest-request@smoe.org?body=unsubscribe ------- Siquomb, isn't she?