From: les@jmdl.com (JMDL Digest) To: joni-digest@smoe.org Subject: JMDL Digest V2000 #644 Reply-To: joni@smoe.org Sender: les@jmdl.com Errors-To: les@jmdl.com Precedence: bulk Unsubscribe: mailto:joni-digest-request@smoe.org?body=unsubscribe Archives: http://www.smoe.org/lists/joni Websites: http://www.jmdl.com http://www.jonimitchell.com JMDL Digest Thursday, December 7 2000 Volume 2000 : Number 644 The 'Official' Joni Mitchell Homepage, created by Wally Breese, can be found at http://www.jonimitchell.com. It contains the latest news, a detailed bio, Original Interviews, essays, lyrics and much much more. The JMDL website can be found at http://www.jmdl.com and contains interviews, articles, the member gallery, archives, and much more. ========== TOPICS and authors in this Digest: -------- RE: Bob's quote from a musical, now Vanessa Redgrave (njc) ["Wally Kairuz] potato salad mom--long njc ["Wally Kairuz" ] Re: Poor, Poor Rickie Lee (NJC)..Long Review of Tonight's Show [JRMCo1@ao] Re: Got Chaka! ["Bill Pearson" ] Speaking of Jaco Pastorius... [JRMCo1@aol.com] dream of les/julius NJC [catman ] Re: Poor, Poor Rickie Lee (NJC)..Long Review of Tonight's Show (md) [MDES] Re: Got Chaka! [Bob.Muller@fluor.com] Re: Video Tree Kudos [mags ] SNL, KITH, Ab Fab & Monty Python NJC ["kerry" ] Re: Poor, Poor Rickie Lee (NJC)..Long Review of Tonight's Show (md) [Bob.] Re: dream of les/julius NJC [JRMCo1@aol.com] Re: potato salad mom--long njc ["C.A. Starkey" ] Re :John Galt ,Ayn Rand,etc. ["Megan" ] Re: Poor, Poor Rickie Lee (NJC)..Long Review of Tonight's Show (md) [JRMC] Today in Joni History - December 7 [Today in Joni History ] First time ["wayne irvin" ] Re: onlyJMDL Digest V2000 #457 [Mauski4648@aol.com] Re: First time [RoseMJoy@aol.com] Re: First time [Don Rowe ] A Case Of Joni - New cd! [Twenty2Foreplay@aol.com] Re: First time [Bob.Muller@fluor.com] Poor Rick Pt.2/Chaka VLJC Longish ["Christopher J. Treacy" ] Re: Poor, Poor Rickie Lee (NJC)..Long Review of Tonight's Show (md) [MDES] first post [FHejira@aol.com] Ayn Rand / HUAC [steve@torchsongs.com] Re: Poor, Poor Rickie Lee (NJC)..Long Review of Tonight's Show(md) [catma] Re: first post [catman ] Re: dream of les/julius NJC [catman ] Re: Poor, Poor Rickie Lee (NJC)..Long Review of Tonight's Show (md) [JRMC] Re: dream of les/julius NJC [MGVal@aol.com] i dream of jmdlers NJC ["Wally Kairuz" ] RE: dream of les/julius NJC ["Wally Kairuz" ] RE: potato salad mom--long njc ["Wally Kairuz" ] Covers Project [JRMCo1@aol.com] Re:John Galt, Ayn Rand,etc. ["Megan" ] Joni Portraits in Rolling Stone Book [JRMCo1@aol.com] ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Thu, 7 Dec 2000 06:01:29 -0300 From: "Wally Kairuz" Subject: RE: Bob's quote from a musical, now Vanessa Redgrave (njc) and what about franco nero's looks? gran dio!!! he probably got the part because he was redgrave's protigi, and as he was dubbed, he got the best sounding singing voice in the cast!!!! but, no regrets. give me nero nero nero!!!!!! wallyK, np: marcel deste: cactus tree - -----Mensaje original----- De: owner-joni@jmdl.com [mailto:owner-joni@jmdl.com]En nombre de Joseph Palis Enviado el: Jueves, 07 de Diciembre de 2000 04:00 a.m. Para: joni@smoe.org Asunto: Re: Bob's quote from a musical, now Vanessa Redgrave (njc) as much as vanessa redgrave knocked me silly with her screen portrayals, i liked richard harris in CAMELOT more. his "how to handle a woman" is so ineffable beautiful. joseph (likes films in the 30s to 60s) ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 7 Dec 2000 06:01:49 -0300 From: "Wally Kairuz" Subject: potato salad mom--long njc oh potato salad mom!!!!!!!! delete now if you're anti-kith here's the script: [Bruce is Larry's very happy, bubbly mother. He's wearing a bright dress, has a red beehive hairdo, glasses, and bright reddish lipstick.] Bruce: [opens front door] Oh, you must be friends of Larry's. Don't stand out in the weather, come on in! [leads down hallway] Be careful on the rug; we're having problems with it. Not much really, just a house. Come on! [waving in..into kitchen] Well, we all know why we're here. It's time to make...[clicks on radio, happy music plays throughout]...potato salad! Potato salad! [sing-songy:] First you take the eggs. Then you add the mayonnaise. Sugar to taste--a little won't kill ya. Then I stir it all up. Boy, I love my kitchen. . .especially in the day. [Daydreaming...wakes up] Well, back to work! [rising from behind them--] Potatoes! You know, I've made potato salad a thousand times and I've still got a lot to learn. [Daydreaming...wakes up] Well, back to work. [giggles] Mix mix, stir stir, him him, her her. How is Larry anyway? Oh, his marks. What to do, what to do. [singy again:] Radishes and chives. Mix mix, stir stir, I married young, it's all a blur. I can still fit into my wedding dress though. [Quick cut, in dress, turning, showing it off.] See? Still fits. Not a lot of gals can say that. [Cutting to different poses in the dress, then cuts back to dress and apron.] Well, no rest for the wicked! Tada! Go on, take the potato salad with ya. [walking away taking off apron.] Don't mention it. [Walking back out to front door] Well it's always nice to meet friends of Larry's. And, if you see him, tell him not to feel sorry about his dad. . .and to call! It won't kill him to pick up a phone. [Waves off, and closes door.] ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 07 Dec 2000 05:30:03 EST From: JRMCo1@aol.com Subject: Re: Poor, Poor Rickie Lee (NJC)..Long Review of Tonight's Show Chris, thanks for your informative, sympathetic and beautifully written review of Rickie Lee's show at Berkelee. You have such a nice way with metaphor and simile. I was especially touched when you wrote: "During the musical jam segments, RLJ sat down in a chair at the front of the stage, lowering her head and closing her eyes as if it were way past bedtime." Your poetic descriptiveness brings a sad smile to my face, even as a tear wells in my eye. I've seen Rickie Lee in concert many times and I can certainly validate your perceptions. Strangely though, I feel like somewhat of an enabler in that I turn to Rickie Lee performances for the palatable angst, juxtaposed as it is with her gifted musicianship, as catharsis for my own. Her persona is heart-wrenching sad, but endearing and liberating somehow. In my mind it's the performance art equivalent of Joni's confessional lyrical style, which I love so well. It's an unfortunate fact that many of our times' greatest artists are afflicted with these damnable substance-abuse demons. I'm thinking of Billie and Janis, but Macy Gray and Whitney may be more contemporary examples. One of life's many perplexing paradoxes is that their real-life challenges lend authenticity and depth to their rendering of the blues. And their blues are a sobering reminder to me that, regardless of who you are or your degree of "success," life can be wrought with heartach, helplessness and pain. For best results, art needs to imitates life, warts and all. Regardless, I find myself spinning my _Flying Cowboys_ disc often, and lately I've taken to playing it back-to-back with my new _Billie Holiday: Anthology 1944-1959_. When I *really* want to feel it, I follow that up with Neil Young's _After the Gold Rush_. But I don't let it bring me down. I count "The Horses" among my favorite songs, and when Rickie Lee covers "Don't Let the Sun Catch You Crying" it's autobiographical: Don't let the sun catch you cryin' The night's the time for your tears Your heart may be broken tonight But tomorrow in the morning light Don't let the sun catch you cryin' The nighttime shadows disappear And with them go all your tears Cuz the morning will bring joy for every girl and boy So, dont let the sun catch you cryin' We know that cryin's not a bad thing But stop your cryin' when the birds sing It may be hard to discover That you've been left for another But don't forget that love's the game That can always come again So don't let the sun catch you cryin' (Fred Marsden, Gerrard Marsden, Leo Maguire, Les Chadwick - 1964) I would never, ever pass up a chance to see RLJ do "Satellites" and so many of my other favorites live, however manic she might be. For my money, Rickie Lee Jones exudes such sweet sorrow. When I pity her so profoundly, it's easier not to feel sorry for myself. - -Julius np: Joni's "Dreamland" from _Shadows & Light_ ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 7 Dec 2000 10:53:28 -0000 From: "Bill Pearson" Subject: Re: Got Chaka! > Thanks to Bill P. in the UK, we'll soon be enjoying Chaka Khan's version of > "Man From Mars"...Thanks for stepping up Bill! :~) > > Bob > > NP: Fleetwood Mac, "Gold Dust Woman" > Bob It's landed ! It will be on it's way soon. Kakki - another gem?, I'm not sure yet. Perhaps I expect too much, waiting 10 mins before she came on stage, making a short video even shorter, and there's an interview somewhere - even shorter, shorter. I'll play the whole thing properly later, but at the moment she certainly looks like she'd rather be shopping! I hope it's just too early and my ears need more coffee :) Bill PS:Bob, I've re-ordered Salas & Jarrett this morning - still want? ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 07 Dec 2000 06:09:55 EST From: JRMCo1@aol.com Subject: Speaking of Jaco Pastorius... The new, official Jaco Pastorius website, www.jacopastorius.com went live on his birthday, December 1. Happy Birthday, dear departed Jaco! It's a work in progress and a labor of love by his son-in-law John, his daughter Mary and sons Julius and Felix. Not much Joni content yet, but I'm hoping that she'll be featured more prominently once the "scrapbook" section reaches critical mass. Jaco's wife Ingrid Pastorius is an honorary JMDL listmember, if not one in fact, as she did an interview with Wally Breese for JoniMitchell.com. It's a good read, and the pictures of her (and Jaco) are easy on the eyes. Check it out over there. I have the pleasure of corresponding with Ingrid from time to time and she speaks fondly of this list and its members, including our wirlypearl. Maybe Pearl will revisit her story of meeting Ingrid at a garage sale, one of my favorite jmdl posts of all time, in honor of the occasion. What do you say, Pearl? - -Julius ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 07 Dec 2000 12:15:12 +0000 From: catman Subject: dream of les/julius NJC I had a very strange dream that I can't begin to figure out! It was about the new photocard driving licences we now have here in the UK. Anyway, I had sent my application and photo off to be authorised. Trouble was I had sent a picture of Julius, who in my dream was black, and the person who was going to authorise it at the DVLA was our very own Les. I tried desperately to get my applicatuion back out of the post box because i thought that if they give me a driving licence with a picture of Julius on it, they will know it isn't me because I am not black. I couldn't get it back and I was awoke in a panic. I have no idea what this all about! I have recently had my licence back and it is one of these photo things. I look like a convict in the pic. I also think the card itself is bloody stupid as they have printed a hologram over the photo so it is very difficult to see anyway. Plus we still have to keep the large a4 paper licence as well so what was the point? - -- bw colin colin@tantra.fsbusiness.co.uk http://www.geocities.com/tantra_apso/index.html ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 7 Dec 2000 08:00:09 EST From: MDESTE1@aol.com Subject: Re: Poor, Poor Rickie Lee (NJC)..Long Review of Tonight's Show (md) This is about the saddest review of a show I think I have ever read. To be perfectly honest RLJs schtick has never held my interest because simply stated I always found her slurring of words to be distracting. People on the list have raved about her so I always figured that there was something there that I just wasnt connecting with. I guess now my instincts were accurate. Shes sick and her art suffers from it. Very tragic. From what this reviewer tells us, backstage must be pure hell for the musicians involved with her. The fine line between genius and insanity can produce some great paintings and written words. But one inch over the line of alchoholism on a stage performance produces bad music. This is very very sad. I fel for her real fans. marcel deste ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 7 Dec 2000 08:19:25 -0500 From: Bob.Muller@fluor.com Subject: Re: Got Chaka! <> Absolutamente, Bill! Lay on, MacDuff!! ;~) Bob - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- The information transmitted is intended only for the person or entity to which it is addressed and may contain confidential and/or privileged material. If you are not the intended recipient of this message you are hereby notified that any use, review, retransmission, dissemination, distribution, reproduction or any action taken in reliance upon this message is prohibited. If you received this in error, please contact the sender and delete the material from any computer. Any views expressed in this message are those of the individual sender and may not necessarily reflect the views of the company. - --------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 07 Dec 2000 08:23:52 -0600 From: mags Subject: Re: Video Tree Kudos Scott Price wrote: > < for the latest JMDL video tree. Some really great stuff there! > > The early Joni performances are amazing. She is strikingly beautiful and > the audio has been well preserved. This is most precious. I had not seen > her play the guitar like that before, sometimes forming barres with her > left hand on top of the neck, instead of the more-conventional under the > neck position. > > The "Much Music" segment is fantastic as well. Joni looks very relaxed in > her bib overalls, and seems genuinely happy to be on stage. She was in fine > voice that evening and it's always a treat to see and hear her play an > acoustic guitar.>> and now mags: Ohhhhhh take my breath away with these tapes!!!! I need to jump in here and say thank you so much to everyone involved in creating this recent set of videos for our tape tree. I know there is a lot more work put forth than meets the eye and I sincerely appreciate the effort and time. Ashara, Simon and everyone responsible, my heartfelt thanks. I remember seeing bits of the Mendel at Asharas and it is fantastic to see it all intact/edited. Thank you Brian for bringing my copies up with you ;) It is wonderful to see and hear Joni in her early years! And yes, I noticed Joni's technique of fingers holding strings over top rather than underneath. Anyone want to comment on that from a technical point of view? so cool. I love the MuchMusic segment because she is so relaxed and funny and having a grand old time. (and it was filmed in Toronto!!) I remember seeing it when she was here and it brought back great memories. Joni talks about using the technique of open tuning and how and why it works. It was very interesting and helped non-guitar playing me to understand the concept better. A woman in the audience asked her to explain the origin of Magdalene Laundries. While I have heard this on the audio tapes, to see the expression on her face as she tells that story, well I lost it. Heart wrenching and so moving knowing Joni's experience as a woman who I am certain could/can relate to the silence and shame they felt. One of those things that stays with you always. thank you again for the wonderful gift of the tapes and the list. Life altering. love, Mags np: Delirium Poem ... our daughter Mimi's latest acquisition ;) > > > - -- --------------------------------------------------------------------- _~O / /\_, ___/\ /_ - ----------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 7 Dec 2000 07:40:35 -0600 From: "kerry" Subject: SNL, KITH, Ab Fab & Monty Python NJC There are too many SNL skits to pick out a favorite. The most recent cast is pretty good after a long dry spell. I just started watching Kids in the Hall reruns on Comedy Central and love it. Same with Absolutely Fabulous - I wish it was on more often! I'd have to say, though that the first comedy show I was addicted to was Monty Python and my favorite skit - SPAM, SPAM, SPAM and SPAM!!!! Kerry NP - Austin Lounge Lizards, "Jesus Loves Me (But He Can't Stand You)" - Sonicnet is really introducing me to new music! ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 7 Dec 2000 08:41:31 -0500 From: Bob.Muller@fluor.com Subject: Re: Poor, Poor Rickie Lee (NJC)..Long Review of Tonight's Show (md) <> Chris, I'm sorry the show was a heart-breaker for you. I'm a big RLJ fan but have never seen her live. I *do* think "It's Like This" is one of the best releases this year. As for her vocal 'technique', I guess either you dig it or you don't. It's sad that so many artists have to prematurely burn out because they have to have their substances to reach their creative plateau or open the 'doors of perception' as it were. The scariest thing about doing community theatre is when you do a show with someone who's got to have a couple of drinks before a show. Besides knowing all your own lines, blocking, and cues, you've gotta stay a couple of beats ahead so you can be prepared to improvise when things start to go astray. Back to Robert Downey, Jr...I read that when he was arrested just recently, he was quoted as saying "I'm not a movie star...I'm a drug addict." Very sad and hard to understand unless we've been there, I suppose... Bob NP: Andy Partridge, "Dame Fortune" (1996 Demo) - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- The information transmitted is intended only for the person or entity to which it is addressed and may contain confidential and/or privileged material. If you are not the intended recipient of this message you are hereby notified that any use, review, retransmission, dissemination, distribution, reproduction or any action taken in reliance upon this message is prohibited. If you received this in error, please contact the sender and delete the material from any computer. Any views expressed in this message are those of the individual sender and may not necessarily reflect the views of the company. - --------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 07 Dec 2000 10:42:44 EST From: JRMCo1@aol.com Subject: Re: dream of les/julius NJC Colin writes: <> Me Julius, colin? How funny. Paz was just telling me he had a dream recently with jmdler Alison in it. What's going on in jmdl dreamland? Well, I am black as the night, so that part's accurate. All I can make of it is that I'm now a duly licensed driver in the UK, at least in your dreams, so I best get used to driving on the other side of the road (In your dreams I fly?). I guess I'll be driving you and Miss Daisy from now on (an American film joke, and a poor one at that). I *was* listening to Joni's "Dreamland" early this morning, whilst you were sleeping perhaps. This is definitely a job for our list psychiatrist, Dr. What's His Name from Vienna. Panic, I think, would be the appropriate response if you should ever find my homely likeness on your documents in any dimension! - -Julius ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 06 Dec 2000 20:57:07 -0500 From: "C.A. Starkey" Subject: Re: potato salad mom--long njc did you type that from memory? or did you type from a script? if you did that from memory-- impressive! did i say egg salad mom by mistake? sorry. funny! ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 7 Dec 2000 10:38:44 -0500 From: "Megan" Subject: Re :John Galt ,Ayn Rand,etc. Mark wrote: >I don't see it as being totally wrong to compare Joni's artistic philosophy to that of Ayn Rand.>I'm thinking more of "The Fountainhead" in this regard than of "Atlas Shrugged"> The protagonist of "The Fountainhead" is a brillant architect who absolutely refuses to compromise his work-to garner critical or popular acclaim or for any other reason.>Rand's contention is that great art can only be created from the artist's purely selfish desire to fulfill his or her own unique vision.I don't think that's much different from Joni's > refusal to pander to critical or popular taste. I have to say I totally agree with Mark on this.If Joni had not had the courage of her convictions way back in '75, we would never have had the incredibly brillant THOSL, and all the music that followed.Even though she had previously experimented with some jazz influences, such as on C&S,it wasn't until THOSL that she brought it to full fruition with the exquisite jazz/rock fusion hybrid that was uniquely her own.Even though other artists had toyed with that genre,none did so with the absolute perfection that Joni did.It would have been so easy for her,especially riding the tidal wave of success she had with C&S, to stick with what had been commercially successful for her( which is what undoubtedly the record company would have wanted).But instead, she took the high road and pandered to noone,only obeying her muse.If you read the liner notes to THOSL, it pretty much says it all: "This is a total work conceived graphically, musically, lyrically and accidentally -- as a whole.The performances were guided by the given compositional structures and the audibly inspired beauty of every player.The whole unfolded like a mystery." -----Megan ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 07 Dec 2000 10:59:09 EST From: JRMCo1@aol.com Subject: Re: Poor, Poor Rickie Lee (NJC)..Long Review of Tonight's Show (md) Explain to me, please, marcel how you can have such disdain for an accomplished performer with the alcoholism disease when you so readily overlook it in a candidate for the U.S. presidency. Mr. Bush, Jr. is "sick" too. He doesn't deny being one toke over that line you've drawn. Will this result in "bad" representation? Will we be feeling his pain if he's elected? P.S. - Are you still mad about what RLJ said about George/republicans on her website? - -Julius marcel writes: << This is about the saddest review of a show I think I have ever read. To be perfectly honest RLJs schtick has never held my interest because simply stated I always found her slurring of words to be distracting. People on the list have raved about her so I always figured that there was something there that I just wasnt connecting with. I guess now my instincts were accurate. Shes sick and her art suffers from it. Very tragic. From what this reviewer tells us, backstage must be pure hell for the musicians involved with her. The fine line between genius and insanity can produce some great paintings and written words. But one inch over the line of alchoholism on a stage performance produces bad music. This is very very sad. I fel for her real fans. marcel deste>> ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 07 Dec 2000 03:13:00 -0700 From: Today in Joni History Subject: Today in Joni History - December 7 1974: NME reviews "Miles of Aisles" today, saying "And just why was Tom Scott getting so much of the spotlight? I mean, his arrangements might have added a lot to "Court and Spark" but his solos are so limited, they really start to sound all the same after a while." http://www.jmdl.com/articles/docs/741207nme.cfm 1975: Today, the Rolling Thunder Review, including Joni, rolls into the Correctional Institution for Women at Clinton, New Jersey. A few days later, Rolling Stone published a story on the event: "Who are these people?" asked a young female inmate of the Correctional Institution for Women at Clinton as she entered the prison auditorium dressed in a white evening gown, walking confidently on glittery platform shoes. "Don't know," answered her male companion, an inmate dressed slightly more conservatively, "but Roberta Flack will be here." "These people" were Bob Dylan, Joan Baez, Joni Mitchell, Allen Ginsberg and the rest of the Rolling Thunder Revue. Read the full article at http://www.jmdl.com/articles/docs/760115rsx.cfm - -------- Know a date or month specific Joni tidbit? Send it off to JoniFact@jmdl.com and we'll add it to the list. - -------- ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 07 Dec 2000 17:08:17 -0000 From: "wayne irvin" Subject: First time Hey everybody and anybody, This is my first time writing here and I am a reallllllllllllly big fan of Joni. I have been looking forward to joining other Joniphiles. Let me hear from you. "Christmas is sparkling out on Carols's lawn" Happy holidays world. Wayne Irvin _____________________________________________________________________________________ Get more from the Web. FREE MSN Explorer download : http://explorer.msn.com ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 7 Dec 2000 12:26:57 EST From: Mauski4648@aol.com Subject: Re: onlyJMDL Digest V2000 #457 I found that cd in a music store years ago, no information whatsoever, here in Germany. Both of them must have been very young doing that concert.Karin ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 7 Dec 2000 12:30:55 EST From: RoseMJoy@aol.com Subject: Re: First time Welcome home Wayne! This is the right place to be if you're as huge a Mitchell fan as you say you are, although sometimes the threads stray a bit. Hope to hear more from you soon. Rose in NJ ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 7 Dec 2000 09:30:12 -0800 (PST) From: Don Rowe Subject: Re: First time Welcome to the Mad Tea Party, Wayne! Well, you've started out on the right foot with THIS quote, at least as far as I'm concerned: > "Christmas is sparkling out on Carols's lawn" As you'll come to find out, this list can use a heightened appreciation of Joni's 80's catalog, so it's wonderful to see that we may, in fact, have a new knight errant in the quest! Of course, the real test of devotion is: What do you think of "Dog Eat Dog"? Don Rowe (Founder and President of DEDMAS -- The Dog Eat Dog Musical Appreciation Society) ;-) ===== Visit me anytime at http://www.mp3.com/donrowe Yahoo! Shopping - Thousands of Stores. Millions of Products. http://shopping.yahoo.com/ ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 7 Dec 2000 12:48:37 EST From: Twenty2Foreplay@aol.com Subject: A Case Of Joni - New cd! Hey family! Anyone know anything about A Case Of Joni, isnt it gonna be put out in a few weeks? I hope so but none of the CD websites have it listed yet. Does anyone know where to find a promo copy now, lol, im a bit anxious!!! Matthew Got til Its Gone ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 7 Dec 2000 13:37:24 -0500 From: Bob.Muller@fluor.com Subject: Re: First time <<"Christmas is sparkling out on Carols's lawn">> As well as "It's coming on Christmas, they're cuttin' down trees"! Welcome to you, Wayne! Newbies are always welcome! Maybe you can help introduce yourself by letting us know if you've seen Joni live and when, as well as which of her works are your fave and why! Bob NP (Now Playing): XTC, "Red" - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- The information transmitted is intended only for the person or entity to which it is addressed and may contain confidential and/or privileged material. If you are not the intended recipient of this message you are hereby notified that any use, review, retransmission, dissemination, distribution, reproduction or any action taken in reliance upon this message is prohibited. If you received this in error, please contact the sender and delete the material from any computer. Any views expressed in this message are those of the individual sender and may not necessarily reflect the views of the company. - --------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 7 Dec 2000 14:10:12 -0500 From: "Christopher J. Treacy" Subject: Poor Rick Pt.2/Chaka VLJC Longish Thank you all for making ME feel better; now if there was something we could do for Rickie... I was so down last night, I momentarily considered tossing my own hard earned sobriety, but good won over evil in the end. The portrait of sorrowful desparation that RLJ paints with her art IS striking, and to see it so vividly has me in a bit of a tizzy. I'm grateful I have a forum of people to air my upset with who understand, and don't think me odd for being alarmed and saddened as opposed to angered by having spent my money or some other petty stance. I found some solace not only in the responses to my post, but also in reading some of RLJ's own comments about her performances in her chat forum. I hadn't realized how often she throws in her 2 cents. She basically defends herself by stating that studio recording is for one thing, but a live performance is for another - and furthermore don't expect it to be easy, comforting, familiar....expect it to be unsettling, teasing, hair-raising, tear-jerking... This is not to say that the drunken timing, flustered musicians and weepy stance of a performance like last night's are all explained away, but what it DOES say is that RLJ is aware of what she's doing. I'm not sure what's more tragic, the admittance that 'this is just the way I am sometimes' or the artist who thinks the show came off beautifully when in fact it was embarrassingly flawed. There's some credibiltiy in her refusal to bother covering up whats going on with her, though, and somehow that makes me feel better. If I were to turn to Rickie and say "Ya' know, Rick, you're not fooling anybody about your alcoholism" she'd probably respong by saying "I've never ever tried to". As I myself will remain a RLJ 'enabler' I am shortly going to have my order processed for the new "RLJ Live In Portland" web-only double CD set. This, of course, in the wake of having won 2 ebay auctions for RLJ posters which are set to arrive any day. My devotion remains steady, if just a little shaken. And yes Bob, I agree, "It's Like This" IS one of the best albums of the year, in fact my only complaint about it is that it's too damn short. Onward to the "Man From Mars" cover on Chaka's new vid release...I'm waiting for my credit card payment to clear so I can order on-line goodies, and could NOT wait another second for the new Chaka , which I had originally planned to order form Amazon. So, off to Cambridge I went , as I could not find a VHS copy in all of Boston. Chaka Khan could sexualize a root canal or swordfish steak if the job called for it, and the number she does on MFM is no exception. What started as a lament for a lost pet has us now seated in Chaka's boudoir watching her toss and turn , sleeping only in fits, as she empties the bedside box of tissues and then hurls the box across the room. Where is her man? This time he went too far. The rest of the performance is a must for any fan of CK's voice - it's not the same as it used to be but,much like our Joni's, it has found a descriptive depth in the singer's later years. A handful of the tracks are actually updated replays of material covered on the "Echoes From An Era" project, a barely circulated CK jazz collaboration album from 1982 of which I am the proud owner of a vinyl copy. If anyone would like a tape, let me know. -Chris ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 7 Dec 2000 13:26:18 -0600 From: "Eric Wilcox" Subject: RE: First time I have to hop in on this one-- even though the question wasn't asked of me.... Dog Eat Dog.... hmm... Well, I picked up this one not expecting much. I'd heard person after person trash it-- and so I decided to pick it up from a used CD place-- got it for $4 or so. Well worth it. Its not so horrid at all. Perhaps its hard to compare to Joni's folk and jazz music of the late 60s and 70s.... But the album is a struggle between convenional methods of songwriting and new 80s high-tech toys. What I'd love to do-- perhaps over christmas break when I have a bit more time-- is to write an in-depth review of this and some of the other frequently insulted Joni works. There's merit in DED. Its may, however, be necessary to work a little bit to let our ears hear it. Now *I've* got a question-- has Joni spoken about any of these 80s works recently? WTRF, DED, or CMIARS? We often pick on these albums.... it seems as though many artists had some iffy albums in the 80s (take David Bowie, for example). I was wonderfing what Joni thinks of these works now-- in retrospect. Any insights? eric - --- eric wilcox edwilcox@students.wisc.edu "It is absurd to divide people into good and bad. People are either charming or tedious." -Oscar Wilde - --- - -----Original Message----- From: owner-joni@jmdl.com [mailto:owner-joni@jmdl.com]On Behalf Of Don Rowe Sent: Thursday, December 07, 2000 11:30 AM To: wayne irvin Cc: joni@smoe.org Subject: Re: First time Welcome to the Mad Tea Party, Wayne! Well, you've started out on the right foot with THIS quote, at least as far as I'm concerned: > "Christmas is sparkling out on Carols's lawn" As you'll come to find out, this list can use a heightened appreciation of Joni's 80's catalog, so it's wonderful to see that we may, in fact, have a new knight errant in the quest! Of course, the real test of devotion is: What do you think of "Dog Eat Dog"? Don Rowe (Founder and President of DEDMAS -- The Dog Eat Dog Musical Appreciation Society) ;-) ===== Visit me anytime at http://www.mp3.com/donrowe Yahoo! Shopping - Thousands of Stores. Millions of Products. http://shopping.yahoo.com/ ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 07 Dec 2000 16:04:04 EST From: MDESTE1@aol.com Subject: Re: Poor, Poor Rickie Lee (NJC)..Long Review of Tonight's Show (md) <<>> Julian, tell me, are you so obsessed with the political goings on that you feel compelled to go so far out of your way to slam George Bush (and me) when my comment was exclusively about the tragic-ness of the concert review? Having said that If Ricky Lee did in fact post a diatribe against George W the only thing that would suprise me would be if it had some profound coherent substantiated thinking associated with it. Bush has been honest about his prior problem which is more than I can say for Al "king of the bong" Gore and (according to Roger Clinton) Bill "nose like a vacuum cleaner" Clinton. But then again I digress. My true answer would be yes. If ol George hits the sauce and proceeds to slur his words at the inaugural address Ill be the first to notice and comment on it. Nothing is sadder than seeing an artist trying to perform while shit-faced. It is sad and I saw it with Jimmi Page at the ARMS concert when he was so zoned he had to have a roadie untie him from his guitar chord. People who are able to overcome addictions have my greatest respect. People like Daryl Strawberry get my deepest sympathy. I did not have "disdain" for Ricky Lee. I said it was tragic. Your obvious obsession with ac! hieving some political cheap sho t may have distracted you from the words I posted. I suggest you try to avoid such rhetorical gymnastics since to do so only makes you appear overly partisan. I include my comments below for reference. 5respectfully, marcel deste << This is about the saddest review of a show I think I have ever read. To be perfectly honest RLJs schtick has never held my interest because simply stated I always found her slurring of words to be distracting. People on the list have raved about her so I always figured that there was something there that I just wasnt connecting with. I guess now my instincts were accurate. Shes sick and her art suffers from it. Very tragic. From what this reviewer tells us, backstage must be pure hell for the musicians involved with her. The fine line between genius and insanity can produce some great paintings and written words. But one inch over the line of alchoholism on a stage performance produces bad music. This is very very sad. I feel for her real fans. marcel deste>> ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 7 Dec 2000 17:11:12 EST From: FHejira@aol.com Subject: first post G'day from down under. I have been lurking for about three weeks now, my wife said it's been more like cowering! I am almost 60 and have been a devoted fan for around 30 years.They are having reruns of the Wonder Years on cable, in an episode the other night it was Xmas eve and the family were all together and I remarked to my wife how much Kevin's sister looked like Joni in her younger days. After dinner I went over to ( girlfriend) Winnie's house to give her Xmas present only to find her not there. As he walked away with heavy heart the strains of River ( Joni's version ) followed his broken heart into the night. np. And if the wine you drink and the lips you press,end in the things that all things end in - - - - yes ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 7 Dec 2000 23:22:24 GMT From: steve@torchsongs.com Subject: Ayn Rand / HUAC Hi, Just coming out of lurker mode because of the Ayn Rand theme - From what I've read (in the biographical work Pentimento by Lillian Hellman, whom I like much better), Ayn joined in with the most virulent of the Red-baiters - protesting the first US appearance of a Soviet classical musician (Horowitz?), heckling outside his hotel window, etc. And worse, cooperating with the Committee, which at its peak was as wretched as Stalinism. Freedom? The American Way? Everything in its extreme becomes its opposite, as the Buddhists say. Everybody has their weaknesses, and interesting, complex people can have some difficult aspect to their character - Joni included. But those McCarthyite creeps did a lot of damage to innocent people, so Ayn is greatly worsened by her association with them in my mind. I can turn off completely to an artist because of stuff like that - probably we all have at some point, due to some issue we just can't overlook. My two cents worth. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 07 Dec 2000 23:30:22 +0000 From: catman Subject: Re: Poor, Poor Rickie Lee (NJC)..Long Review of Tonight's Show(md) Marcel wrote: I suggest you try to avoid such rhetorical gymnastics since to do so only makes you appear overly partisan. LOL! Do you have a mirror? ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 07 Dec 2000 23:32:39 +0000 From: catman Subject: Re: first post g'day and welcome. Where is Oz are you? I grew up in Albury NSW. FHejira@aol.com wrote: > After dinner I went over to ( girlfriend) Winnie's house > to give her Xmas present only to find her not there. As he walked away with > heavy heart the strains of River ( Joni's version ) followed his broken heart > into the night. I found this confusing. Are you talking about you or the tv show? > > > np. And if the wine you drink and the lips you press,end in the things that > all things end in - - - - yes - -- bw colin colin@tantra.fsbusiness.co.uk http://www.geocities.com/tantra_apso/index.html ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 07 Dec 2000 23:34:28 +0000 From: catman Subject: Re: dream of les/julius NJC > Me Julius, colin? You are the only Julius I know! > How funny. Paz was just telling me he had a dream recently with jmdler Alison in it. What's going on in jmdl dreamland? Well, I am black as the night, so that part's accurate. All I can make of it is that I'm now a duly licensed driver in the UK, at least in your dreams, so I best get used to driving on the other side of the road (In your dreams I fly?). I guess I'll be driving you and Miss Daisy from now on (an American film joke, and a poor one at that). I get it. we have movies here too. > > > I *was* listening to Joni's "Dreamland" early this morning, whilst you were sleeping perhaps. This is definitely a job for our list psychiatrist, Dr. What's His Name from Vienna. Panic, I think, would be the appropriate response if you should ever find my homely likeness on your documents in any dimension! Oh I doubt you are homely looking. I am not sure if I knew you were black or not. Would I have seen a pic of you from one of the fests? bw colin > > > -Julius - -- bw colin colin@tantra.fsbusiness.co.uk http://www.geocities.com/tantra_apso/index.html ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 07 Dec 2000 19:22:21 EST From: JRMCo1@aol.com Subject: Re: Poor, Poor Rickie Lee (NJC)..Long Review of Tonight's Show (md) marcel writes: <> Hi marcel. My name is Julius. Please forgive me for jumping on you about your RLJ concert review post. In all honesty, I am somewhat obesessed with the political scene right now (and I think you are too), but I certainly didn't intend to slam you - or Bush, really. I'll try to rise above this sort of reaction going forward. If your intentions were to comment on the concert review as you say, I sincerely apologize. <> Who said anything about a "diatribe?" And if you didn't read it, why do you assume it was such? You must know that such a characterization is derogatory and incendiary. Why would you presume the worst and make a blind and extremely negative value judgement about someone you claim to have no interest in, without even reading what she has said? Read it, then rant all you want, but if you didn't, don't diss, please. That sort of negativism irks me. Sorry. <> I'm not so sure about Bush's honesty, but if you say so I'm willing to give him the benefit of the doubt. But there you go again with the name-calling and mean-spirited, unsubstantiated accusations. You do this all the time and I'm quite fed up with it. You called the Vice-President "lyin' Al" yesterday. I don't take kindly to such abusive language and you will never hear such unprovoked fighting words from me about anyone. <> Believe me, there are much sadder things. But your point is well taken and I'm gratified by your answer. Thank you. <> Okay. I must have misread your meaning when you used words like "schtick" and presumed that her band was going through hell, etc. My bad. <> I'm sure I could've achieved quite effective cheap shots, had that been my ambition. It wasn't. I did read your post carefully though, as I do all your posts. Maybe I should refrain from reading the ones with political content, as they tend to rub me the wrong way, tone and content wise. That's my problem though, not yours. If you will refrain from the name-calling and vitriol about Democrats, you will never hear another mumbling word from me again on political issues surrounding this election. I promise. I'm sure the list at large would applaud that as well. Not hearing from me on politics, I mean. - -Julius np: Elton John, "Friends" ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 7 Dec 2000 20:05:38 EST From: MGVal@aol.com Subject: Re: dream of les/julius NJC In a message dated 12/07/2000 3:42:34 PM Pacific Standard Time, colin@tantra.fsbusiness.co.uk writes: << Oh I doubt you are homely looking. I am not sure if I knew you were black or not. Would I have seen a pic of you from one of the fests? >> I have to pipe in and say that Julius is a very handsome looking guy. Oozes class and charm. I may be partly deaf, but I sure ain't blind. MG ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 7 Dec 2000 22:14:09 -0300 From: "Wally Kairuz" Subject: i dream of jmdlers NJC and how about my recent dream in which michael paz turned out to be st michael, the archangel????? now beat that!!!! i had another jmdl dream a few nights ago, this time about kakki. i didn't write it down and now i can't remember what it was about! wallyK, np: GLORIOUS RICKIE LEE JONES: away from the sky ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 7 Dec 2000 22:18:04 -0300 From: "Wally Kairuz" Subject: RE: dream of les/julius NJC you talking about julius? baby, read my lips: sizzling hot daddy!!!! wallyK - -----Mensaje original----- De: owner-joni@jmdl.com [mailto:owner-joni@jmdl.com]En nombre de MGVal@aol.com Enviado el: Jueves, 07 de Diciembre de 2000 10:06 p.m. Para: colin@tantra.fsbusiness.co.uk; JRMCo1@aol.com CC: joni@smoe.org Asunto: Re: dream of les/julius NJC In a message dated 12/07/2000 3:42:34 PM Pacific Standard Time, colin@tantra.fsbusiness.co.uk writes: << Oh I doubt you are homely looking. I am not sure if I knew you were black or not. Would I have seen a pic of you from one of the fests? >> I have to pipe in and say that Julius is a very handsome looking guy. Oozes class and charm. I may be partly deaf, but I sure ain't blind. MG ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 7 Dec 2000 22:21:33 -0300 From: "Wally Kairuz" Subject: RE: potato salad mom--long njc oh no! i downloaded the script from the kith site!!!! my memory has [at most] a 20-second span! wally - -----Mensaje original----- De: C.A. Starkey [mailto:janisc@mail.ptdprolog.net] Enviado el: Miircoles, 06 de Diciembre de 2000 10:57 p.m. Para: Wally Kairuz; magpie119@Juno.com; joni@smoe.org Asunto: Re: potato salad mom--long njc did you type that from memory? or did you type from a script? if you did that from memory-- impressive! did i say egg salad mom by mistake? sorry. funny! ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 07 Dec 2000 20:22:58 EST From: JRMCo1@aol.com Subject: Covers Project Oooh! I think I have one, Bob. Do you have Canadian jazz singer's cover of Joni's "Be Cool" from Aitken's Indie CD of the same name? - -Julius ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 7 Dec 2000 18:56:46 -0500 From: "Megan" Subject: Re:John Galt, Ayn Rand,etc. - ----- Original Message ----- From: Megan To: Cc: Sent: Thursday, December 07, 2000 10:38 AM Subject: Re :John Galt ,Ayn Rand,etc. > Mark wrote: > > >I don't see it as being totally wrong to compare Joni's artistic > philosophy to that of Ayn Rand.>I'm thinking more of "The Fountainhead" in > this regard than of "Atlas Shrugged"> The protagonist of "The Fountainhead" > is a brillant architect who absolutely refuses to compromise his work-to > garner critical or popular acclaim or for any other reason.>Rand's > contention is that great art can only be created from the artist's purely > selfish desire to fulfill his or her own unique vision.I don't think that's > much different from Joni's > refusal to pander to critical or popular taste. > I have to say I totally agree with Mark on this.If Joni had not had the > courage of her convictions way back in '75, we would never have had the > incredibly brillant THOSL, and all the music that followed.Even though she > had previously experimented with some jazz influences, such as on C&S,it > wasn't until THOSL that she brought it to full fruition with the exquisite > jazz/rock fusion hybrid that was uniquely her own.Even though other artists > had toyed with that genre,none did so with the absolute perfection that > Joni did.It would have been so easy for her,especially riding the tidal wave > of success she had with C&S, to stick with what had been commercially > successful for her( which is what undoubtedly the record company would have > wanted).But instead, she took the high road and pandered to noone,only > obeying her muse.If you read the liner notes to THOSL, it pretty much says > it all: "This is a total work > conceived graphically, musically, lyrically and accidentally -- as a > whole.The performances were guided by the given compositional structures and > the audibly inspired beauty of every player.The whole unfolded like a > mystery." -----Megan ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 07 Dec 2000 20:43:44 EST From: JRMCo1@aol.com Subject: Joni Portraits in Rolling Stone Book Has anyone taken a look at this yet? - -Julius _______________________________________________________ ROLLING STONE : THE ILLUSTRATED PORTRAITS Fred Woodward, editor Chronicle, $40, 218 pages Face to face: Renderings from Rolling Stone "I feel like I'm married to this guy Art," Joni Mitchell said. "I'm responsible to Art above all else." Mitchell's quote appears in tiny type next to a huge, soft-pastel portrait of her by Vivienne Flesher in "Rolling Stone: The Illustrated Portraits." On the opposite page there's another take on Mitchell, by Gary Kelley, that shows her as a beret-wearing bohemian, all angles and cheekbones, in a cafe. The two illustrations of Mitchell show how an artist can catch something a photographer can't, some heightened, exaggerated feature or feeling that gives us a fresh look at someone we thought we knew. Sometimes the take may simply be silly -- a young Chuck Berry watches a flock of ducks walk by and gets a bright idea -- and sometimes it might be totally unexpected. Anita Kunz imagined Metallica and the Spice Girls as warring dragons; Allen Milgrom saw Bob Marley as Spiderman, swinging above the rooftops of Trenchtown. Rolling Stone is a magazine better known for its photography than its illustrations, but this book makes a strong case that it is art - - both functional art and Joni Mitchell's more serious, self- conscious Art -- that has been in the visual driver's seat all along. When you can get Ralph Steadman to draw Courtney Love as an amorphous, runny blob with a very human hand, you've done something special. If you can follow that with Leslie Cabarga's beautiful, two- page illustration of Elton John at the piano and Ward Sutton's pop- art portrait of Austin Powers, you've really got it going. ------------------------------ End of JMDL Digest V2000 #644 ***************************** ------- Post messages to the list by clicking here: mailto:joni@smoe.org Unsubscribe by clicking here: mailto:joni-digest-request@smoe.org?body=unsubscribe ------- Siquomb, isn't she?