From: les@jmdl.com (JMDL Digest) To: joni-digest@smoe.org Subject: JMDL Digest V2000 #637 Reply-To: joni@smoe.org Sender: les@jmdl.com Errors-To: les@jmdl.com Precedence: bulk VideoTree sign-up: http://www.jmdl.com/trading Unsubscribe: mailto:joni-digest-request@smoe.org?body=unsubscribe Archives: http://www.smoe.org/lists/joni Websites: http://www.jmdl.com http://www.jonimitchell.com JMDL Digest Monday, December 4 2000 Volume 2000 : Number 637 The 'Official' Joni Mitchell Homepage, created by Wally Breese, can be found at http://www.jonimitchell.com. It contains the latest news, a detailed bio, Original Interviews, essays, lyrics and much much more. The JMDL website can be found at http://www.jmdl.com and contains interviews, articles, the member gallery, archives, and much more. Sign up for VideoTree #2 now: http://www.jmdl.com/trading ========== TOPICS and authors in this Digest: -------- Re: "Good Friends" Video?? [jp ] Re: Chaka does Man From Mars ["Bill Pearson" ] NJC From Janis Joplin list/election [Vince Lavieri ] Sonicnet and Joni SJC ["Diane Evans" ] Hissing apology ["Diane Evans" ] Sonicnet VLJC ["kerry" ] Music Sojourn Vs. Sonicnet VLJC/Chaka ["Christopher J. Treacy" ] Mondegreen Mary ["Lori R. Fye" ] Re: San Francisco Mini-Joni-Fest/ 10th World (NJC) ["Lori R. Fye" ] Re: Mondegreen Mary - NJC [Murphycopy@aol.com] RE: NJC From Janis Joplin list/election ["Deb Messling" ] Re: Popular vote and the purpose of the electoral college (njc) [dsk ] Re: NJC From Janis Joplin list/election [dsk ] HDCD Re-issues? [Brian Lindsay ] Re: Mondegreen Mary [mags ] Re: Mondegreen Mary [IVPAUL42@aol.com] Tis the season (NJC) [Michael Paz ] Mondegreen Mary ["BRIAN SYMES" ] Re: NJC From Janis Joplin list/election ["J. Galt, Jr." ] Re: NJC From Janis Joplin list/election [JRMCo1@aol.com] Re: NJC From Janis Joplin list/election ["Kakki" ] Re: NJC From Janis Joplin list/election ["Kakki" ] Branch News from Lamadoo, NJC ["Jim L'Hommedieu" ] [Fwd: Re: HDCD Re-issues?] [Randy Remote ] [Fwd: Re: JM Amazon notification] [Randy Remote ] Re: NJC How Gore Could Win [JRMCo1@aol.com] RE: [Fwd: Re: HDCD Re-issues?] ["Wally Kairuz" ] Re: NJC How Gore Could Win ["Kakki" ] ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Sat, 02 Dec 2000 21:34:57 +0200 From: jp Subject: Re: "Good Friends" Video?? > <<1985: (From Wally's bio page): The video for the first single > "Good > Friends" premiered on MTV [today]. It was directed by Jim > Blaschfield, who > had found fame with his video for the Talking Heads "And She > Was," by > inserting color xerox images that move independently within the > live > action. The premiere of "Good Friends" was announced with some > fanfare by > MTV VJ Mark Goodman: "Joni Mitchell-at last!", but the video > received only > light airplay for the next 2 months.>> > > I never knew it existed and I've always loved that song! I > have most of > the video of "My Secret Place." Any Joni elves out there know > of the > "Good Friends" video and could it be put on a tape tree??* > > Lindsay i have a 1-track u.k. promo copy of the video. in fact i mailed it to ashara a long time ago to be included on the next tree but for some reason this couldn't be realised. but ashara did copy my pal video to ntsc vhs, so it's probably going to be on vol. 5. - --jussi ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 3 Dec 2000 13:24:11 -0000 From: "Bill Pearson" Subject: Re: Chaka does Man From Mars > From: SCJoniGuy@aol.com > It was reported by one of my covers scouts that there is a new live Chaka > Khan DVD out with a performance of Man From Mars on it! Oh Bob, you almost made my Sunday morning, then I saw the region 1 thing - I'm on the case. Bill << Subject: NJC From Janis Joplin list/election For those who think that throwing various statistics on square miles say it all, Gore: 50 something million popular votes Bush: 49 something million popular votes And: here is a little something from the Janis Joplin list. For those whom think Coincidences? You decide 1. Is it a coincidence that the only state in which this election crisis happened is the one governed by Bush's brother? 2. Is it a coincidence that the exit polls called the election correctly everywhere in the country -- except for Florida? 3. Is it a coincidence that shortly after Florida was called for Gore, Bush made an urgent call to his brother the governor, and shortly thereafter the call for Gore was recalled by all networks? 4. Is it a coincidence that soon thereafter the election was incorrectly called for Bush by his own cousin at Fox (creating the lasting myth that Bush won)? 5. Is it a coincidence that all pre-election polls had Gore leading in Florida the night of Nov. 6 -- a lead that mysteriously evaporated by next day? 6. Is it a coincidence that the votes lost by Gore in various "irregularities" in Florida could well account for just that missing lead? 7. Is it a coincidence that pre-election polls (e.g. Zogby/Reuters) correctly called all states except for Florida? 8. Is it a coincidence that conservative counties used high-accuracy Optical Scan systems while heavily Democratic counties used antiquated punch-cards? 9. Is it a coincidence that the Miami-Dade Canvassing Board decided to abruptly stop the hand count after mobs of Republicans paid for by Bush and other GOP campaigns stormed their building? 10. Is it a coincidence that prior to certifying the election, the Florida Secretary of State chose to toss out hand-counts in Democratic counties (Miami-Dade, Palm Beach, Nassau) but accepted 418 hand-counted votes for Bush from heavily Republican counties (Franklin, Hamilton, Taylor, Washington, Lafayette and Seminole)? 11. Is it a coincidence that the aforementioned Secretary of State is a Bush family friend, delegate, and Florida Bush campaign chair? 12. Is it a coincidence that with her deciding which votes count and which o not, Bush managed to hold onto just enough of a lead for her to certify the election? 3. Is it a coincidence that the official willing to sign legislation to appoint a Republican slate of electors, and overrule the will of the people, is Bush's brother? 14. Is it a coincidence that prior to the election -- when Bush was eading in the polls -- the national "liberal" media was awash in stories of a possible popular-electoral vote split, but largely ignored this historic occurrence after Gore, not Bush, won the popular vote? 15. And is it a coincidence that the anointed Republican standard-bearer just happens to be the son of a former President and head of the CIA? ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 03 Dec 2000 10:01:08 -0500 From: "Diane Evans" Subject: Re: Hissing... Megan, Wecome to the list! You wrote: >My 7yr. old daughter is addicted to Joni,and her favorite video is "Shadows and Light" >which she plays over and over.This does not come as a surprise to me, seeing as I raised her >in utero on a strictly Joni diet(It paid off-no N'Sync or Britney Spears for this kid!) Wait until she hits her teens! But never fear, they tend to come back to us when they hit about 18.:-) BW Diane - ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Get more from the Web. FREE MSN Explorer download : http://explorer.msn.com ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 03 Dec 2000 10:20:02 -0500 From: "Diane Evans" Subject: Sonicnet and Joni SJC Bob, You wrote: >NP: Tom Waits, "Heart of Saturday Night" (2nd Waits tune that Sonicnet has given me, no >Joni yet. Maybe they're still dusting them off! :~D) With all of us tuning in I'll bet they're wondering why Joni is getting so many requests! Maybe it's the sudden flurry that's slowing it down... Diane - ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Get more from the Web. FREE MSN Explorer download : http://explorer.msn.com ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 03 Dec 2000 10:41:56 -0500 From: "Diane Evans" Subject: Hissing apology Sorry for the lack of a NJC tag on my reply to Megan. Diane - ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Get more from the Web. FREE MSN Explorer download : http://explorer.msn.com ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 3 Dec 2000 10:26:15 -0600 From: "kerry" Subject: Sonicnet VLJC Hi Lori, Thanks for recommending Sonicnet! I've only been listening for a short time and I love it already! It's so fun to hear new music! Now, if only we could program the radios in our cars! Every time I listen to the radio, I think of Ani Difranco's line, "And I keep hearing the same damn, song everywhere I GO!!!" Even the classic rock station here plays the same 3 groups every day. They featured Joni as a "root salute" artist one day, but NEVER play her music. Don't get me started. Thanks again, Kerry (trying to think of a way to explain spending even MORE time at the computer to her partner.) NP - The Kinsey Report, "Smoke and Steel" - sonicnet ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 3 Dec 2000 12:05:26 -0500 From: "Christopher J. Treacy" Subject: Music Sojourn Vs. Sonicnet VLJC/Chaka Since we seem to be plugging Sonicnet to one another, I thought I'd mention another fine on-line radio station (?); not much Joni stuff, but still some really cool and more obscure musical choices. Musicsojourn.com Unlike Sonicnet, you cannot program specific artists, but instead, you choose a genre with a partially revealed playlist (I choose not to look, therefore rendering a surprise...). Give it a shot! Also, I'm a little bummed w/ the Chaka project, in that originally it was to be a CD release of her doing the jazz standards - (there was a blurb in Rolling Stone a while back when they were recording it_-). However, it would appear to be available on VHS as well, which makes me cheer a little, as I don't own a DVD player. By the way, does anyone know if you can use a CD-R to transfer musical tracks off of a DVD disc into your hard drive? This way, I could make use of some of the DVD only releases I've seen (Like RLJ live at the Wiltern theater...). -Chris ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 3 Dec 2000 13:03:38 EST From: AsharaJM@aol.com Subject: Re: Joni No. 1 on L.A. Magazine Cover Kakki wrote: << I just received the December Los Angeles magazine - 40th Anniversary Issue and there is a pull-out front cover illustrating a group of L.A. notables. >> Would any LA area people be willing to pick up a copy for me? Please e-mail me and let me know. Thanks! Hugs, Ashara www.photon.net/lightnet ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 3 Dec 2000 10:52:29 -0800 (PST) From: Robert Glenn Plotner Subject: Re: The Contestable Detestable Election Okay, enough with the divisiveness and the political chicanery! Someone please cast the deciding ballot and end our snippy squabble. http://www.seriouslydisturbedhumor.com/vote.htm Robert ===== Seriously Disturbed: A humor magazine http://www.seriouslydisturbedhumor.com/ The Archival Group: Dedicated to preserving and sharing the legacy of live music. http://www.archivalgroup.f2s.com/ or subscribe http://www.topica.com/lists/archivalgroup/ Yahoo! Shopping - Thousands of Stores. Millions of Products. http://shopping.yahoo.com/ ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 3 Dec 2000 13:11:00 -0800 From: "Kakki" Subject: Re: NJC From Janis Joplin list/election What is interesting is that I think most people who voted for Bush would also think it is no coinicidence, but most probably not for the same reason the Gore voters think it is. A really good crook does not make their chicanery so obvious. A really expert crook sets it up to look like the other guy did it. As for question no. 4, I don't see why it qualifies as suspicious - Bush did win - 3 times now. Sorry, but you posed the questions. Kakki > And: here is a little something from the Janis Joplin list. > > For those whom think > > Coincidences? You decide > > 1. Is it a coincidence that the only state in which this election crisis happened is the one governed by Bush's brother? > > 2. Is it a coincidence that the exit polls called the election > correctly everywhere in the country -- except for Florida? > > 3. Is it a coincidence that shortly after Florida was called for > Gore, Bush made an urgent call to his brother the governor, and shortly thereafter the call for Gore was recalled by all networks? > > 4. Is it a coincidence that soon thereafter the election was > incorrectly called for Bush by his own cousin at Fox (creating the lasting myth that Bush won)? > > 5. Is it a coincidence that all pre-election polls had Gore leading in Florida the night of Nov. 6 -- a lead that mysteriously evaporated by next day? > > 6. Is it a coincidence that the votes lost by Gore in various > "irregularities" in Florida could well account for just that missing lead? > > 7. Is it a coincidence that pre-election polls (e.g. Zogby/Reuters) correctly called all states except for Florida? > > 8. Is it a coincidence that conservative counties used high-accuracy Optical Scan systems while heavily Democratic counties used antiquated punch-cards? > > 9. Is it a coincidence that the Miami-Dade Canvassing Board decided to > abruptly stop the hand count after mobs of Republicans paid for > by Bush and other GOP campaigns stormed their building? > > 10. Is it a coincidence that prior to certifying the election, the > Florida Secretary of State chose to toss out hand-counts in > Democratic counties (Miami-Dade, Palm Beach, Nassau) but accepted > 418 hand-counted votes for Bush from heavily Republican counties > (Franklin, Hamilton, Taylor, Washington, Lafayette and Seminole)? > > 11. Is it a coincidence that the aforementioned Secretary of State > is a Bush family friend, delegate, and Florida Bush campaign chair? > > 12. Is it a coincidence that with her deciding which votes count and > which o not, Bush managed to hold onto just enough of a lead for > her to certify the election? > > 3. Is it a coincidence that the official willing to sign > legislation to appoint a Republican slate of electors, and overrule the > will of > the people, is Bush's brother? > > 14. Is it a coincidence that prior to the election -- when Bush was > eading in the polls -- the national "liberal" media was awash in > stories of a possible popular-electoral vote split, but largely ignored > this historic occurrence after Gore, not Bush, won the popular vote? > > 15. And is it a coincidence that the anointed Republican standard-bearer > just happens to be the son of a former President and head of the CIA? ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 3 Dec 2000 14:31:10 -0800 (PST) From: "Lori R. Fye" Subject: Re: Sonicnet VLJC Kerry wrote: > Hi Lori, > Thanks for recommending Sonicnet! Glad you're enjoying it ... the thanks should really go to Anne, though, as I took the cue from her. Sonicnet is working SO well for me! I just signed on and got a kd lang tune, and now: Amelia! In addition to the Joni tunes I mentioned last night, I've also recently heard Magdalene Laundries and Ray's Dad's Cadillac. Diggin' it, ===== Lori in DC http://radio.sonicnet.com/mymusiclisten.asp?name=lrfye http://www.art101.com/flame/taxfree.htm Yahoo! Shopping - Thousands of Stores. Millions of Products. http://shopping.yahoo.com/ ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 3 Dec 2000 14:42:43 -0800 (PST) From: "Lori R. Fye" Subject: Mondegreen Mary Despite a nasty cold, I spent a lovely day with my partner Mary. I woke up with "Carey" on my mind, and I began singing this morning: "The wind is in from Africa ..." Mary picked it up and ran with it, which led me to turn on the CD player and find Carey on MOA. The rest of the day was been filled with conversation about which Joni album we heard first (Mary: C & S; me: Hejira) and how we went about discovering the rest of Joni's catalog. Since our CD player contains all of JM's albums in order of release (except the last two, which are temporarily MIA), I just let the thing run. When we got to "Song for Sharon," I told Mary how I always identified with that song because in 1979 I left North Dakota, where I had still been trying to be str8, and moved to Phoenix, where I came out of the closet. I literally "left my man at a North Dakota junction." Mary gaped at me and said, "Junction?! All this time I thought Joni was singing, 'I left my man at a North Dakota junk shop.'" She said she figured, "Well, the guy must have been junk ..." Just wanted to share that little bit of LOLing. Another mondegreen of the day: "Raised on Robbery," where Mary has thought for years that it's "Blue money riding on the Maple Leafs." She's just sure there's a denomination of Canadian paper money that's blue. (True?) Hmm ... NP: JT, Shower the People ===== Lori in DC http://radio.sonicnet.com/mymusiclisten.asp?name=lrfye http://www.art101.com/flame/taxfree.htm Yahoo! Shopping - Thousands of Stores. Millions of Products. http://shopping.yahoo.com/ ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 3 Dec 2000 14:51:10 -0800 (PST) From: "Lori R. Fye" Subject: Re: San Francisco Mini-Joni-Fest/ 10th World (NJC) Russell wrote: > Fie on 10th World deatractors! I am not exactly > sure what a 'fie' is.....but it sounds very > theatrical, no? Fie is such a great word!!! From Merriam Webster online: fie (interjection) [Middle English fi, from Old French] First appeared 14th Century -- used to express disgust or disapproval And ... though it's spelled differently, it's also MY LAST NAME! : ) Lori (Fye) in DC (who agrees with Russell about The Tenth World) Yahoo! Shopping - Thousands of Stores. Millions of Products. http://shopping.yahoo.com/ ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 03 Dec 2000 14:58:35 -0800 From: susan+rick Subject: Re: Mondegreen Mary > From: "Lori R. Fye" > Another mondegreen of the day: "Raised on Robbery," > where Mary has thought for years that it's "Blue money > riding on the Maple Leafs." She's just sure there's a > denomination of Canadian paper money that's blue. > (True?) Yes indeed, the five dollar bill is blue. Rick ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 3 Dec 2000 18:15:47 EST From: Murphycopy@aol.com Subject: Re: Mondegreen Mary - NJC In a message dated 12/3/00 5:52:26 PM, lrfye@yahoo.com writes: << Mary has thought for years that it's "Blue money riding on the Maple Leafs." She's just sure there's a denomination of Canadian paper money that's blue. >> Money doesn't have to be Canadian to be blue, as Van Morrison'll tell you. Take care, --Bob ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 3 Dec 2000 19:33:10 -0500 From: "Deb Messling" Subject: RE: NJC From Janis Joplin list/election > A really good crook does not make their chicanery so obvious. A really > expert crook sets it up to look like the other guy did it. Point one: words like "crook" are unnecessarily inflammatory, and bound to inspire nasty retorts. Point two: I'd love to see, in detail please, exactly what you think the Gore campaign set up and how they did it. I just read a fascinating 1988 New Yorker article which described how easy it would be to steal votes in elections that use punch ballots. The experts quoted in that article endorsed hand counts as an antidote to computer fraud. Hauntingly, the article stated that a presidential candidate probably could not manipulate the popular vote via computer, but that in a close election he could certainly manipulate the electoral vote. Deb Messling - ------------------------------------ "I like cats. They give the home a heartbeat." ~Joni Mitchell - ------------------------------------ ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 3 Dec 2000 19:37:03 EST From: SCJoniGuy@aol.com Subject: Re: San Francisco Mini-Joni-Fest/ 10th World (NJC) << And ... though it's spelled differently, it's also MY LAST NAME! : ) >> LOL! And I suppose I have a pox and a fie on me for what I said about Tenth World..it's not that I totally dislike it, but rather that it goes on for too long. Bob, who recalls a Broadway tune from The Boys Fron Syracuse (?) that starts out "Fie on goodness, fie!" ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 3 Dec 2000 20:10:08 -0500 From: "Janine Sherman" Subject: JM Amazon notification Hello all, I just got this alert from Amazon. Does anyone know exactly what it contains? Thanks, Janine Joni Mitchell Complete (Vol. 1) Our Price: $21.95 Availability: This title usually ships within 4-6 weeks. Please note that titles occasionally go out of print or publishers run out of stock. We will notify you within 2-3 weeks if we have trouble obtaining this title. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 03 Dec 2000 20:19:32 -0500 From: dsk Subject: Re: Popular vote and the purpose of the electoral college (njc) Says it all???? The list below only makes it obvious how Dubya's followers know (or at least worry) that he would not become president if ALL the votes were counted, and that's *with* the electoral college in place. Otherwise, why bother justifying his "election" in this way? Soooo many more people in the counties that Bush won? Well, then, why didn't he win the popular vote? Looks like Bush followers think he should be president based on the amount of acreage involved. LOL!!! Debra Shea "J. Galt, Jr." wrote: > Kind of says it all. > > >From: MDESTE1@aol.com > > > >Interesting statistics > > > >Population of counties won by Gore: 127 million > >Population of counties won by Bush: 143 million > >Square miles of country won by Gore: 580,000 > >Square miles of country won by Bush: 2,427,000 > >States won by Gore: 19 > >States won by Bush: 29 ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 03 Dec 2000 20:20:03 -0500 From: dsk Subject: phone conversations NJC Some political humor: http://www.mediatrip.com/shows/phone_flash.html Debra Shea ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 03 Dec 2000 20:33:34 -0500 From: dsk Subject: Re: NJC From Janis Joplin list/election I've wondered from the start of this confusion how Jeb Bush could be SO completely sure about delivering Florida. There are more Democrats there, many many Jewish voters, and huge numbers of people living on and concerned about Social Security, but STILL Jeb Bush was sure. Hmmm. And the Democrats are labelled the crooks in this situation? Wow, that's some turnaround. Debra Shea Vince Lavieri wrote: > For those whom think > > Coincidences? You decide > > 1. Is it a coincidence that the only state in which this election > crisis happened is the one governed by Bush's brother? > > 2. Is it a coincidence that the exit polls called the election > correctly everywhere in the country -- except for Florida? [and 13 other "coincidences"] ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 03 Dec 2000 23:08:41 -0500 From: Brian Lindsay Subject: HDCD Re-issues? Hi; Just wondering if anyone had comments on the quality of the HDCD re-masters of Joni's CDs vs earlier versions. Is it worth upgrading? I'm particularly interested in Hejira. (and no, my CD player does not have an HDCD decoder) Thanks ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 03 Dec 2000 23:11:32 -0600 From: mags Subject: Re: Mondegreen Mary "Lori R. Fye" wrote: > < where Mary has thought for years that it's "Blue money > riding on the Maple Leafs." She's just sure there's a > denomination of Canadian paper money that's blue. > (True?)>> and now Mags: yes we Canadians do have "blue" money (aka funny money to a certain New Jersey boi ;) ...it is a five dollar bill. > > > Hmm ... > > NP: JT, Shower the People > > ===== > Lori > in DC > > http://radio.sonicnet.com/mymusiclisten.asp?name=lrfye > > http://www.art101.com/flame/taxfree.htm > Yahoo! Shopping - Thousands of Stores. Millions of Products. > http://shopping.yahoo.com/ - -- - --------------------------------------------------------------------- _~O / /\_, ___/\ /_ - ----------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 3 Dec 2000 23:28:52 EST From: IVPAUL42@aol.com Subject: Re: Mondegreen Mary In a message dated 12/3/00 11:26:09 PM Eastern Standard Time, pholden@iprimus.ca writes: << yes we Canadians do have "blue" money (aka funny money to a certain New Jersey boi ;) >> As Van the Man says of Blue Money: De do de do, deet deet do de doot. Dood doot. Dood doot. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 03 Dec 2000 23:13:09 -0800 From: Michael Paz Subject: Tis the season (NJC) Hello All and Happy weekend- Went out to buy the family tree this evening. The house smells so good. This is my favorite time of the year. So special. The kids are all excited and anxious to get the stuff on the tree, but of course we started the project too late and have to wait till tomorrow to do part two. I wish everyone throughout the list a very happy and blessed holiday season. Time to drag out the christmas records (OH BOY Three Ships by Jon Anderson). Have a good week all. Michael (off to the arms of Morpheus via a new video of Stevie Nicks Live) NP-Crazy On You (Again)-Ann and Nancy Live in Fort Worth ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 3 Dec 2000 21:35:44 -0800 From: "BRIAN SYMES" Subject: Mondegreen Mary This song is close to me when i was around 18(1973+OR-) i was hanging out in the main Hotel bar in toronto ont. watching a hockey game when a pro tried to get me up to my room. I bought her a drink but explained to her i was a poor college student with not enough green. i was raised on molson. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 04 Dec 2000 05:42:32 -0000 From: "J. Galt, Jr." Subject: Re: NJC From Janis Joplin list/election (First, it should be "For those WHO think..." not "For those WHOM think..") I agree it's not coincidental that all these things happened in Florida. (1) It's one of the "major" states that both had to win due to the number of electoral votes on the east coast; (2) because it's on the east coast, it made it easier for the media to do its bit to "throw the election" by inaccurately calling Florida for Gore thus dissuading Republicans from voting throughout the country; and (3) Florida's governor is the brother to one of the candidates making it easier for Democrats to hide their "mischief," knowing that if there are any "voting irregularites" that most of the sheeple would naturally accuse Geo. Bush. Also, I find it telling that it was the Democrats who immediately accused the Republicans of voter fraud in the early days of the fiasco; traditionally, Democrats have accused the other side of what it itself is guilty of. Now, through all these recounts, Democrats have dropped the "voter fraud" accusation. Why? Because it is groundless, AND they don't want too much review of this matter... >From: "Kakki" >Reply-To: "Kakki" >To: "Vince Lavieri" , >Subject: Re: NJC From Janis Joplin list/election >Date: Sun, 3 Dec 2000 13:11:00 -0800 > >What is interesting is that I think most people who voted for Bush would >also think it is no coinicidence, but most probably not for the same reason >the Gore voters think it is. > >A really good crook does not make their chicanery so obvious. A really >expert crook sets it up to look like the other guy did it. > >As for question no. 4, I don't see why it qualifies as suspicious - Bush >did >win - 3 times now. > >Sorry, but you posed the questions. > >Kakki > > > And: here is a little something from the Janis Joplin list. > > > > For those whom think > > > > Coincidences? You decide > > > > 1. Is it a coincidence that the only state in which this election crisis >happened is the one governed by Bush's brother? > > > > 2. Is it a coincidence that the exit polls called the election > > correctly everywhere in the country -- except for Florida? > > > > 3. Is it a coincidence that shortly after Florida was called for > > Gore, Bush made an urgent call to his brother the governor, and shortly >thereafter the call for Gore was recalled by all networks? > > > > 4. Is it a coincidence that soon thereafter the election was > > incorrectly called for Bush by his own cousin at Fox (creating the >lasting >myth that Bush won)? > > > > 5. Is it a coincidence that all pre-election polls had Gore leading in >Florida the night of Nov. 6 -- a lead that mysteriously evaporated by next >day? > > > > 6. Is it a coincidence that the votes lost by Gore in various > > "irregularities" in Florida could well account for just that missing >lead? > > > > 7. Is it a coincidence that pre-election polls (e.g. Zogby/Reuters) >correctly called all states except for Florida? > > > > 8. Is it a coincidence that conservative counties used high-accuracy >Optical Scan systems while heavily Democratic counties used antiquated >punch-cards? > > > > 9. Is it a coincidence that the Miami-Dade Canvassing Board decided to > > abruptly stop the hand count after mobs of Republicans paid for > > by Bush and other GOP campaigns stormed their building? > > > > 10. Is it a coincidence that prior to certifying the election, the > > Florida Secretary of State chose to toss out hand-counts in > > Democratic counties (Miami-Dade, Palm Beach, Nassau) but accepted > > 418 hand-counted votes for Bush from heavily Republican counties > > (Franklin, Hamilton, Taylor, Washington, Lafayette and Seminole)? > > > > 11. Is it a coincidence that the aforementioned Secretary of State > > is a Bush family friend, delegate, and Florida Bush campaign chair? > > > > 12. Is it a coincidence that with her deciding which votes count and > > which o not, Bush managed to hold onto just enough of a lead for > > her to certify the election? > > > > 3. Is it a coincidence that the official willing to sign > > legislation to appoint a Republican slate of electors, and overrule the > > will of > > the people, is Bush's brother? > > > > 14. Is it a coincidence that prior to the election -- when Bush was > > eading in the polls -- the national "liberal" media was awash in > > stories of a possible popular-electoral vote split, but largely ignored > > this historic occurrence after Gore, not Bush, won the popular vote? > > > > 15. And is it a coincidence that the anointed Republican standard-bearer > > just happens to be the son of a former President and head of the CIA? _____________________________________________________________________________________ Get more from the Web. FREE MSN Explorer download : http://explorer.msn.com ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 04 Dec 2000 05:49:07 -0000 From: "J. Galt, Jr." Subject: Re: NJC From Janis Joplin list/election Your powers of perception are astounding! Hmmm... Indeed, of course, it makes sense that George Bush would take the very OBVIOUS move of having his brother, the governor of Florida, throw the election for him, especially in the predominantly DEMOCRAT-controlled counties. You truly missed your calling as one of the pre-eminent media spin doctors. >From: dsk >Reply-To: dsk >To: joni@smoe.org >Subject: Re: NJC From Janis Joplin list/election >Date: Sun, 03 Dec 2000 20:33:34 -0500 > >I've wondered from the start of this confusion how Jeb Bush could be SO >completely sure about delivering Florida. There are more Democrats there, >many many Jewish voters, and huge numbers of people living on and concerned >about Social Security, but STILL Jeb Bush was sure. Hmmm. > >And the Democrats are labelled the crooks in this situation? Wow, that's >some turnaround. > >Debra Shea > > >Vince Lavieri wrote: > > > For those whom think > > > > Coincidences? You decide > > > > 1. Is it a coincidence that the only state in which this election > > crisis happened is the one governed by Bush's brother? > > > > 2. Is it a coincidence that the exit polls called the election > > correctly everywhere in the country -- except for Florida? > > [and 13 other "coincidences"] _____________________________________________________________________________________ Get more from the Web. FREE MSN Explorer download : http://explorer.msn.com ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 04 Dec 2000 05:56:09 -0000 From: "J. Galt, Jr." Subject: RE: NJC From Janis Joplin list/election That's interesting. I just read an article about a guy who was convicted and served time for "throwing elections." He was asked about what is currently going on, and he said it's a "classic" way of throwing elections, i.e., keep requesting recounts until the "appropriate" number of votes are "found." After all, the more ballots are handled, the more, dimpled, pimpled, swinging, hanging and otherwise imperfected chads fall out... >From: "Deb Messling" >Reply-To: "Deb Messling" >To: "Joni" >Subject: RE: NJC From Janis Joplin list/election >Date: Sun, 3 Dec 2000 19:33:10 -0500 > > > A really good crook does not make their chicanery so obvious. A really > > expert crook sets it up to look like the other guy did it. > >Point one: words like "crook" are unnecessarily inflammatory, and bound to >inspire nasty retorts. > >Point two: I'd love to see, in detail please, exactly what you think the >Gore campaign set up and how they did it. > >I just read a fascinating 1988 New Yorker article which described how easy >it would be to steal votes in elections that use punch ballots. The >experts >quoted in that article endorsed hand counts as an antidote to computer >fraud. Hauntingly, the article stated that a presidential candidate >probably could not manipulate the popular vote via computer, but that in a >close election he could certainly manipulate the electoral vote. > > > >Deb Messling >------------------------------------ >"I like cats. They give the home a heartbeat." ~Joni Mitchell >------------------------------------ _____________________________________________________________________________________ Get more from the Web. FREE MSN Explorer download : http://explorer.msn.com ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 3 Dec 2000 22:03:14 -0800 From: "BRIAN SYMES" Subject: For The Roses Trivia Untill i moved out to Oregon i never understood what Arbutus was which Joni rfers to at the end of FTR. it is the evergreen tree that is on the Album Cover to the right of Joni growing out of the hill side. This tree grows from the lower B.C. coast down to California. the glossy leaves rustle in the wind i think of this song when i vist my favorite deserted beaches on the south coast. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 04 Dec 2000 01:09:22 EST From: JRMCo1@aol.com Subject: Re: NJC From Janis Joplin list/election (Your grammar appears to be correct, but that where's any accuracy ends.) <<(2)because it's on the east coast, it made it easier for the media to do its bit to "throw the election" by inaccurately calling Florida for Gore thus dissuading Republicans from voting throughout the country; and>> It has yet to be established that Gore did not win Florida, thus the media projection you refer to may in fact be correct...which is part of the point of the coincidence list. <<(3)Florida's governor is the brother to one of the candidates making it easier for Democrats to hide their "mischief," knowing that if there are any "voting irregularites" that most of the sheeple would naturally accuse Geo. Bush.>> This is complete drivel, not even worthy of a reasoned response. For your information, the voter fraud allegation is not "dropped," it is just not being pursued by the Gore campaign itself. Why. In the interest of time, mostly. But also because the Gore mantra has been that all votes should be counted. Even with them, Gore still wins, in all likelyhood, if all ballots are counted. - -Julius ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 3 Dec 2000 22:00:35 -0800 From: "Kakki" Subject: Re: NJC From Janis Joplin list/election Deb wrote: > Point one: words like "crook" are unnecessarily >inflammatory, and bound to inspire nasty retorts. I was responding to a long series of questions Rev. Vince sent from the Joplin list, questions which in every instance, baldly insinuate that the Bushes are involved in something "crooked". My reply was just cutting to the chase but I did not originate the insinuation. > Point two: I'd love to see, in detail please, exactly what you >think the Gore campaign set up and how they did it. I didn't say they did anything. Does your following sentence imply it is easier to commit fraud with punch ballots or with electronic ballots - it is not clear to me. If it is easy to commit voter fraud - stuff ballots with punch cards, then why is it the Democratic-controlled counties who still use them in Florida? > I just read a fascinating 1988 New Yorker article which >described how easy it would be to steal votes in elections that use punch ballots. The experts quoted in that article >endorsed hand counts as an antidote to computer > fraud. Hauntingly, the article stated that a presidential >candidate probably could not manipulate the popular vote via >computer, but that in a close election he could certainly >manipulate the electoral vote. I've been reading a number of articles by statistical analysts which provide some pretty compelling methodology to get to the bottom of the double-punched ballots and other possible alleged ballot stuffing. For instance, one could investigate the double-punched Buchanan/Gore ballots to see how the voter punched on the rest of the card. Apprently there were some Reform party candidates on the ticket. So if a card has other Reform candidates and maybe other non-Democrat choices punched, it would likely be a vote for Buchanan. What is interesting is that the media has been awfully quiet on the fact that several thousand ballots in Florida contained double punches for Bush/Gore, too. Likewise, one could look at the rest of the choices punched and make an educated guess at the voter's intention. If the rest of the ticket is primarily punched for Republicans, then most likely the Bush punch would be the correct vote. Maybe one of the many watchdog groups will eventually get around to scoping this out. Kakki ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 03 Dec 2000 23:19:19 -0700 From: Les Irvin Subject: Re: NJC From Janis Joplin list/election At 12/3/2000 10:42 PM, J. Galt, Jr. wrote: >Florida's governor is the brother to one of the candidates making it >easier for Democrats to hide their "mischief," knowing that if there are >any "voting irregularites" that most of the sheeple would naturally accuse >Geo. Bush. Wow....... This logic reminds me of that scene from Monty Python and the Holy Grail where they burned the witch at the stake. Where's Oliver Stone when you need him? Les - staying out of it... really! NP: Patty Larkin "Me and that Train" ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 3 Dec 2000 22:14:34 -0800 From: "Kakki" Subject: Re: NJC From Janis Joplin list/election Debra wrote: > I've wondered from the start of this confusion how Jeb Bush >could be SO completely sure about delivering Florida. There >are more Democrats there, many many Jewish voters, and >huge numbers of people living on and concerned about >Social Security, but STILL Jeb Bush was sure. Hmmm. When I was in Florida recently I read all the local newspapers each day. I saw a break down by county of voting. The vast majority of the counties went for Bush, some by huge margins. True there are many Jewish and elderly voters who may be predominantly Democrat, but there are also many Cuban-Americans, who I think are almost exclusively Republican. There are also many other voters in the small counties who are Republican or Southern (conservative) Democrats. You might want to check out the numbers. They surprised me, too. > And the Democrats are labelled the crooks in this >situation? Wow, that's some turnaround. Hey now, what about the long list of questions designed to make the Bushes look like crooks? Why always so one-sided? I didn't call the Dems crooks - just said that a real sharp crook wouldn't be so obvious - even if, as some like to think, Bush is a bleeping moron. It's too obvious, but if you were an opponent and if you wanted to screw up the works, what a perfect place to do it, eh? Just my counter-insinuation. Kakki ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 3 Dec 2000 22:21:02 -0800 From: "Kakki" Subject: Re: NJC How Gore Could Win Julius wrote: > For your information, the voter fraud allegation is not >"dropped," it is just not being pursued by the Gore campaign >itself. Why. In the interest of time, mostly. But also >because the Gore mantra has been that all votes should be >counted. Even with them, Gore still wins, in all likelyhood, if >all ballots are counted. Now I hope you don't get mad at me, Julius, but here's another thought. If Gore could prove fraud, it would be his quickest and easiest way to win. All the time spent on the many lawsuits and recounts could have been spent on exposing and proving any fraud (which I think would be fairly quick and easy to do) and he would now be President-Elect. How? Because if he proved fraud, all 25 of Florida's electoral votes get thrown out of the final total and he wins with his pre-Florida majority of electoral votes. Kakki ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 4 Dec 2000 01:43:36 -0500 From: "Jim L'Hommedieu" Subject: Branch News from Lamadoo, NJC Branch news. Sorry to use up bandwidth but my system board died of old age (18 months?), so no address book. I been able to lash together a backup system with a wire coat hanger, a pair of coconuts and some seaweed. (Now humming the theme to Gilligan's Island.) Anyway, I recently sent Nikki's Dar tape and JMDL #2 tapes to Eric Wilcox. Tomorrow I'll mail tapes to Jody Johnson & Sue Cooper. I am caught up with JMDL #2 requests and look forward to a steady stream from the rest of ya'll. I'm sending this from my OLD account, but if anyone needs to reply, go ahead and reply to this message using the old account as it's the only one that I can access at the moment. Also, I'm listed in the phone book in the Cincinnati, Ohio area. I'm not gonna publish my number but I'm always available to my Joni buds. :) Getting my fix after Jones-ing for the List, Jim L'Hommedieu ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 03 Dec 2000 23:15:23 -0800 From: Randy Remote Subject: [Fwd: Re: HDCD Re-issues?] In the case of Court and Spark, the earlier version was especially bad. Likewise for the first album. On others, the difference may not be too great. On FTR for instance, I had to keep switching discs. I finally was able to notice a slightly smoother high end. I do not have a HDCD player either. Haven't heard the Hejira HDCD. RR Brian Lindsay wrote: > Hi; > > Just wondering if anyone had comments on the quality of the HDCD > re-masters > of Joni's CDs vs earlier versions. Is it worth upgrading? I'm > particularly > interested in Hejira. (and no, my CD player does not have an HDCD > decoder) > > Thanks ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 03 Dec 2000 23:17:11 -0800 From: Randy Remote Subject: [Fwd: Re: JM Amazon notification] It's a songbook, isn't it? Out of print? Janine Sherman wrote: > Hello all, > I just got this alert from Amazon. Does anyone know exactly what it > contains? > Thanks, Janine > > Joni Mitchell Complete (Vol. 1) > > Our Price: $21.95 > > Availability: This title usually ships within 4-6 weeks. Please note that > titles occasionally go out of print or publishers run out of stock. We will > notify you within 2-3 weeks if we have trouble obtaining this title. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 4 Dec 2000 02:21:45 EST From: JRMCo1@aol.com Subject: Re: NJC How Gore Could Win Kakki writes: << If Gore could prove fraud, it would be his quickest and easiest way to win.>> True, perhaps, but the high road, albeit not the path of least resistance, is to fight to have all legal votes counted. Win or lose. Go ahead and count all those fraudulent republican absentee ballots, I say. They all would've probably voted for Bush anyway, right? And it wasn't these voters' fault that their ballots were tampered with. But illuminate how republican party operatives transgressed, and make sure it never happens again. And count all the overseas votes of those who were duly registered and got their ballots in on time, postmark or no. But also count every vote turned up in hand counts, which are quite legally appropriate under these circumstances, and count all discernable votes that computers couldn't count for whatever reason. We simply need to count the ballots of everyone who voted legally, however long it takes. - -Julius, ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 4 Dec 2000 04:32:39 -0300 From: "Wally Kairuz" Subject: RE: [Fwd: Re: HDCD Re-issues?] i don't have the hdcd decoder thingy but fwiw i updated all the updateable jonis to hdcd. the most dramatic difference can be heard on song to a seagull and c&s. as to the rest, i guess you do need the hdcd chip. the volume is a lot higher on the hdcd's, though, so you seem to get more definition or at least more kick. one advantage of the hdcd's is that you get the original cover art, so in a way many post-vinyl folks can get as glimpse of how magnificent joni's covers were. wallyK ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 3 Dec 2000 23:40:22 -0800 From: "Kakki" Subject: Re: NJC How Gore Could Win >True, perhaps, but the high road, albeit not the path of least >resistance, is to fight to have all legal votes counted. Win or >lose. I don't know I think it would be more noble to expose voter fraud, but maybe it would not be so good politically because it would disenfranchise the majority of innocent Florida voters. >Go ahead and count all those fraudulent republican >absentee ballots, I say. They all would've probably voted for >Bush anyway, right? And it wasn't these voters' fault that >their ballots were tampered with. No, if the court finds that they are fraudulent, then the law should be followed and they should not be counted. > But illuminate how republican party operatives >transgressed, and make sure it never happens again. From a legal standpoint, the case has not been decided yet, but some legal scholars think the transgression of filling in a number on the application is not in the same legal ballpark as tampering with the actual ballot itself. > And count all the overseas votes of those who were duly > But also count every vote turned up in hand counts, which >are quite legally appropriate under these circumstances, and >count all discernable votes that computers couldn't count for >whatever reason. Part of the problem and reason why there is so much legal wrangling going on now, it that there have been no clear standards of what counts as a vote, dimple, etc. Unfortunately fact: Gore's lawyer Mr. Boies, misrepresented the Illinois case re: dimples and such to the Florida Supreme Court at the outset, causing their initial ruling to be flawed (which opens up a can of worms and which potentially gives the USSC something to hang their hat on. The FSC has been denying Gore's subsequent appeals for a revote and for another recount. >We simply need to count the ballots of everyone who voted legally, however long it takes. I agree, but would have rather it would have been every state who ensured that every legal vote was counted, however, long it took. I don't understand the reasoning of "count every vote, but only for me in the select places I want counted." I truly don't understand the fairness of that and the argument that "but this is the place where it is most important" - what about the rest of American voters? On the other hand, this situation hopefully will result in widespread election reform and it's probably long overdue. And before you all want to start the kindling at the stake for me, I have not voted for Republican presidential candidates in 5 past elections. Kakki ------------------------------ End of JMDL Digest V2000 #637 ***************************** ------- Post messages to the list by clicking here: mailto:joni@smoe.org Unsubscribe by clicking here: mailto:joni-digest-request@smoe.org?body=unsubscribe ------- Siquomb, isn't she?