From: les@jmdl.com (JMDL Digest) To: joni-digest@smoe.org Subject: JMDL Digest V2000 #625 Reply-To: joni@smoe.org Sender: les@jmdl.com Errors-To: les@jmdl.com Precedence: bulk VideoTree sign-up: http://www.jmdl.com/trading Unsubscribe: mailto:joni-digest-request@smoe.org?body=unsubscribe Archives: http://www.smoe.org/lists/joni Websites: http://www.jmdl.com http://www.jonimitchell.com JMDL Digest Sunday, November 26 2000 Volume 2000 : Number 625 The 'Official' Joni Mitchell Homepage, created by Wally Breese, can be found at http://www.jonimitchell.com. It contains the latest news, a detailed bio, Original Interviews, essays, lyrics and much much more. The JMDL website can be found at http://www.jmdl.com and contains interviews, articles, the member gallery, archives, and much more. Sign up for VideoTree #2 now: http://www.jmdl.com/trading ========== TOPICS and authors in this Digest: -------- november 25!!! part 1 njc ["Wally Kairuz" ] november 25 part 2 njc ["Wally Kairuz" ] NOV 25 part 3!!!!!!!njc ["Wally Kairuz" ] Re: Tree Museum NJC [Christopher Otterbeck ] "Classic Joni"? ["Jim L'Hommedieu" ] Joni on Zappa List, ["Jim L'Hommedieu" ] Re: Today in Joni History ["Jim L'Hommedieu" ] JMDL Video Tree Preview ["Jim L'Hommedieu" ] Re: Today in Joni History - November 23 [Siresorrow@aol.com] Re: Today in Joni History - November 23 [Siresorrow@aol.com] Re: Republicans vs. Democrats (NJC) (md) [MDESTE1@aol.com] Queer as Folk--TV Show/Showtime Channel (NJC) ["C.A. Starkey" ] Re: Republicans vs. Democrats (NJC) (md) [Dflahm@aol.com] Re: november 25!!! part 1 njc [FMYFL@aol.com] grinch NJC [BarBearUh ] Re: Books (NJC) [Gertus@aol.com] Re: Today in Joni History - November 13 addendum [Randy Remote ] Re: Zappa & Joni [Robert Glenn Plotner ] river [catman ] RE: Don't Read This! - Craziness, NJC ["Chris Marshall" ] Re: The day Joni got angry [MGVal@aol.com] Happy FBDay (NJC) [Michael Paz ] Re: The day Joni got angry ["cassy" ] ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Sat, 25 Nov 2000 05:20:20 -0300 From: "Wally Kairuz" Subject: november 25!!! part 1 njc happy birthday, skeptic and very much a sagittarius clark T!!!! best wishes, wallyK and the birthday greeting gang ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 25 Nov 2000 05:28:00 -0300 From: "Wally Kairuz" Subject: november 25 part 2 njc jim lammadoo: without your Cincinnati chili what would we do?????????? HAPPY BIRTHDAY!!!!!!! blessings and girlfriends galore! wallyK ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 25 Nov 2000 05:33:10 -0300 From: "Wally Kairuz" Subject: NOV 25 part 3!!!!!!!njc and to my big brother and DUCK extraordinaire... HAPPY FUNKY BIRTHDAY, BRIAN OH SO GROSS!!!!!!!! and don't go breaking my sistah's heart, you cad! the wallistah ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 25 Nov 2000 00:45:46 -0800 (PST) From: Christopher Otterbeck Subject: Re: Tree Museum NJC The Rev. wrote... "Poppy, what a rip-off. The trees belong to everyone. Where can we go see trees now?" So we drove a while to find some trees to look at." Oh Vince, what a wonderful grandson u have!!! :-) NP: Leno... still talking about the election, just like everyone else! Puhleese! Yahoo! Shopping - Thousands of Stores. Millions of Products. http://shopping.yahoo.com/ ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 25 Nov 2000 02:48:32 -0500 From: "Jim L'Hommedieu" Subject: "Classic Joni"? Wow, Muller, this is some wonderful writing! Nice job. We gotta get you away from that burner to type more often! Clap, clap, clap, clap. Lama The topic was picked up from Mark in Seattle: > Is there such a thing as 'classic Mitchell?' If you think there is, > which period & why do you think so? And you said, [[ I think there is, but it has less to do with a genre of music (rock, folk, jazz, etc.) and more to do with the unique things she brings to her music; her swooping vocals, which can be found as early as "Night In The City" and as recent as "Harlem in Havana". Her rhythmic guitar work, where she picks and strums simultaneously, the piano chords that only SHE seems to know, and above all, the lyrics that go where nobody else can imagine to go. Bob ]] - ------------------------------ ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 25 Nov 2000 02:57:14 -0500 From: "Jim L'Hommedieu" Subject: Joni on Zappa List, Gees, Les. I dunno. We've all been having SUCH a good time discussing the admissibility of dimpled 'chads' and the demise of the separation of powers.... Yer gunna bring the party _down_. :) (Tongue firmly in cheek, natch.) Les said, > Now HERE's a topic for discussion! I found > this on a Frank Zappa > webpage today. Anyone know anything about > this? Lama PS- Note to Marcel: you don't have to add this "Motorhead" person to the year 1967 on your infamous list. :) Hey, I'm allowed to be a smart alec today! ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 25 Nov 2000 03:05:41 -0500 From: "Jim L'Hommedieu" Subject: Re: Today in Joni History Hey Les, Thanks for posting these again. Lately, I've been checking out some of them, based on your excerpts. This Mitchell woman.... seems like a decent lyricist? Can't sleep and thinking I'm hysterically funny, Lama ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 25 Nov 2000 03:43:35 -0500 From: "Jim L'Hommedieu" Subject: JMDL Video Tree Preview Don't read this if it's gonna spoil it for you. - --------- - --------- Les mentioned a 1994 article published in the Los Angeles Weekly (at http://www.jmdl.com/articles/docs/941125law.cfm ). It turns out that the article is timely. It discusses Joni's appearance on a tv programme called Intimate and Interactive on Canada's "Much Music" channel that many, many JMDLers are waiting to see in the Ashara-powered JMDL Video Tree #2. I believe "sake" is a Japanese wine. In the video Joni sips from a very small vessel between some songs. She is very upbeat and bouncy and in-her-own-skin and at ease in the appearance on Intimate and Interactive. Here's an excerpt, written by Alice Echols: [[Something is bothering Mitchell tonight, it's her parents. They've let her know she's "disgraced them in front of all of Canada" during her September 23 appearance on the 90-minute program Intimate and Interactive , on Much Music, Canada's music-video channel. In a 1979 interview, Mitchell explained that if she was occasionally less than candid it was to protect her very "old-fashioned and moral" parents. She joked, "I keep saying 'Momma, Amy Vanderbilt killed herself. That should have been a tip-off that we're into a new era." But she was only 36 then. Watching Joni Mitchell now, 51 years old, grappling with parental disapproval is both wonderful and terrifying. Before the show, producers gave Mitchell some sake to warm up her vocal cords and control her jitters. "I entered the room with a pretty glowy and goofy spirit. It began so lightly that to gear down into the spirit to sing these tragedies that I write was pretty tricky stuff." During a phone-in segment, after her first set, an earnest young woman asked if she was "proud to be a Canadian. Mitchell, who divides her time between L.A. and British Columbia, didn't give an easy answer. She spoke of her "annoyance" with "borderlines" and jokingly termed herself "bi-national." After expressing her affection for Canada, she said she preferred warmer climates. "The cold (Canadian) winters and Scottish and Irish blood (not coincidentally, perhaps, her mother's ethnicity) create an emotionally withholding people." She closed the show with "Happiness is the Best Face Lift," a new song inspired by an argument with her mother. Before singing it, though, she said, "Momma, if you're listening tonight, I love you so much." It was a tender performance that revealed Mitchell's warmth, vulnerability, thoughtfulness and humor. Although the show generated no negative response, even from Canadian nationalists, her parents were ashamed to see their daughter smoking and singing songs with two curse words. ]] ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 25 Nov 2000 05:06:49 EST From: Siresorrow@aol.com Subject: Re: Today in Joni History - November 23 In a message dated 11/24/00 12:18:50 PM Eastern Standard Time, mark.travis@gte.net writes: << Is there such a thing as 'classic Mitchell?' If you think there is, which period & why do you think so? >> i just leant my copy of ttt to someone and i told them that i felt the first track, hih, was classic joni mitchell. classic in the sense,....when everything is working right in her heart, and she's full of zest, this bright combination of sounds is what results. i think she's done this in many periods. but i also think she has ups and downs. so i could say maybe....night ride home was an up....ti was a down....ttt was an up. now...up and down is not relevant to quality. all her music is quality. but i'm talking explosive texture....that comes out in the up. i think hejira had it. court and spark. and so on. not sure about ded. ok rowe, it's your turn to do the social implications of ded now. ciao. p np. silence ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 25 Nov 2000 05:09:55 EST From: Siresorrow@aol.com Subject: Re: Today in Joni History - November 23 In a message dated 11/24/00 1:05:57 PM Eastern Standard Time, SCJoniGuy@aol.com writes: << Is there such a thing as 'classic Mitchell?' If you think there is, > which period & why do you think so? > I think there is, but it has less to do with a genre of music (rock, folk, jazz, etc.) and more to do with the unique things she brings to her music; her swooping vocals, which can be found as early as "Night In The City" and as recent as "Harlem in Havana". >> i just read this after i posted my own version of the same thing. very spooky. and the only reason i'm staying with this radiohead for another week. p ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 25 Nov 2000 11:08:51 EST From: MDESTE1@aol.com Subject: Re: Republicans vs. Democrats (NJC) (md) Its truly interesting to me how far some will go to literally ignore an amazing amount of facts in order to fabricate their ideas out of nothing but their own world view which of course they have arrived at by ignoring all the aforementioned facts. I think this in fact is the truest difference between Republicans and Democrats. Republicans want to know what the truth is whatever it is. When the truth meant they replace their man and throw him out of the Whitehouse (Nixon). They did. When the Democrats had their opportunity to put the law , the facts, and the truth, ahead of the political agenda they not only refused they attacked the messingers. On almost every issue. For instance women who testified they were raped by their man (Clinton) were scorned, mocked and villified. No issue stands in greater contrast to me personally than Anita Hill and Juanita Broderrick, When the Democrats exercise raw political power they praise their "higher values". If Republicans ever do (which is rare) they go ballistic and claim nefarious (or worse) intent. Their reflex is to immediately inject invective and incendiary emotional venom as opposed to aggressively find the facts and let the truth prevail. Joe Leibermans whining yesterday really made me laugh. Not a comment about Jessie Jacksons racist diatribe on election night, but calling the first republican demonstration I have ever seen "resorting to mob rule". Hey Joe where you goin' with that 1960's generation in your hand. Lastly I must say it is amazing to see the same people who en masse defended the perjury of a President and eight years of willfull evasion of the law (ie "No controlling legal authority") by an entire administration on a massive scale, now piously insisting that the "rule of law" must be followed. Its like someone burglarizing your house and raping your wife stopping at the pavement outside and claiming that we all need to calm down, and be civil. I went through Clarks piece very slowly and carefully and counted something like 30-40 factual mistatements. Not maybe marginally questionable statements but totally bewilderingly wrong statements. I fully realize Clark isnt purposely lying he just hasnt a clue about what the truth is and he has taken at face value what the propagandists and liberal apologists on the major news and TV has told him is the truth as opposed to checking out the veracity of the statements he hears. I guess thats what it takes to make the argument for the Democrats. Clark is a beautiful person who is in every way (in his arguments) in his post the personification of Jonis song The Three Great Stimulents. marcel deste ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 24 Nov 2000 22:18:32 -0500 From: "C.A. Starkey" Subject: Queer as Folk--TV Show/Showtime Channel (NJC) Can someone make a tape of a few shows for me? I'll pay for the postage I don't get Showtime, and I'm curious about this show. Since one of my characters in my novel is a gay man, I'd like to view this show for research. Email me privately. Thanks, Carol PS--Hope everyone that celebrates it had a Happy Thanksgiving ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 25 Nov 2000 11:24:49 EST From: SCJoniGuy@aol.com Subject: Re: "Classic Joni"? NJC > Wow, Muller, this is some wonderful writing! Nice job. We gotta get you > away from that burner to type more often! Clap, clap, clap, clap.>> Heard it in the wind last night...sounded like applause! Thanks, Jim - takes one to know one my friend...and you are very astute as well - I'm in Raleigh visiting my sister, so no burnin' for this boy! :~) Bob ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 25 Nov 2000 16:29:24 From: "Cassie Fox" Subject: Back to the Garden I am unfamiliar with the Joni tribute album "Back to the garden." Could someone enlighten me about the songs and performers on it? Thanks! Cassie _____________________________________________________________________________________ Get more from the Web. FREE MSN Explorer download : http://explorer.msn.com ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 25 Nov 2000 13:44:55 EST From: Dflahm@aol.com Subject: Re: Republicans vs. Democrats (NJC) (md) Marcel, if the Republicans were the exclusive repository of truth-seeking, virtue and maturity you claim them to be, why couldn't they find a more impressive nominee than GWB? It looks like he's going to be the next President, unfortunately, and we'll all be here, God willing, to witness his performance in that job. Frankly, I'm not too optimistic, but ...at least, I'm not a tree. DAVID LAHM ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 25 Nov 2000 14:24:10 EST From: FMYFL@aol.com Subject: Re: november 25!!! part 1 njc In a message dated 11/25/00 3:33:18 AM Eastern Standard Time, wallykai@fibertel.com.ar writes: << happy birthday, skeptic and very much a sagittarius clark T!!!! best wishes, >> Here it is Clark Carlton's birthday, but I got the present. That's right, I just got a wonderful gift from Clark. He sent me his new CD that was just completed. Kakki had told me that he was talented, but now that I've listened to his CD "Saltwater", I'm so impressed with yet another gifted JMDLer. The cover is a brilliant piece of work in itself with the CD being dedicated to JONI. He also thanks Kakki, Steve Dulson, Paz, (I hope I didn't leave anyone out), and the entire JMDL for their support. Clark has a great voice, and plays the guitar so beautifully. It's a mixture of tunes from lovely ballads to an up tempo beach boy like song. The first song "Mathew" brought tears to my eyes, since it's about Mathew Sheppard, and sung so beautifully. I can't wait for the second listen to a great CD. Congratulations Clark, not just because it's your birthday, but for recording such a wonderful CD. Thanks for the present :~)........and you better attend the next Jonifest!!! Jimmy, wishing happy birthday's to the rest of you Nov 25th babies. Big hug to you Brian Gross ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 25 Nov 2000 15:02:20 -0500 From: BarBearUh Subject: grinch NJC coming home from thanksgiving, i was surprised to find posts about how good "grinch" was. i had just written to a friend of mine that worked on the effects (which were pretty good, very seamless). after a few sentences about the effects, i wrote the following: i brought my niece & nephew to see it yesterday. the mountains & clouds were really great looking (that and the ringing telephone stick out as particularly cool), but i have to say that i detested the film. i was really disappointed, because i'm a big seuss fan. my mom went too - she found it equally offensive. i thought the script was awful, at least from a story perspective. there were some clever lines (like "oh the humanity" cracked me up), but the story didn't draw me in. the whole premise of the young rejected grinch didn't work - he already had a strong evil streak (you see it in the floating basinet scene), so it's not his rejection that made him mean - just one of the many flawed parts of the story. i hate to sound like a prude, but i find it pretty sad that a movie for kids has some of the crass stuff in that film (like the kiss my butt gesture with the flower, the dog butt kiss & drag). all the loud commercials and previews set the stage with their whooshing sound effects and non-stop indication of gags without substance. it makes me sad about our culture. i also hated the music, found carrey completely obnoxious (he's so over the top & ON so much of the time that it's like listening to loud music on blown out speakers), the non-seuss rhyming was obviously sub-standard-non-seuss and the film just didn't capture the whimsy of the book. as much of an anti-materialist i am, even the theme is hard to buy as a package with the $100M+ budget and merchandising. ron howard has this tendency to do the most obvious and i just don't think he's a good director. the film never reached a coherent place where it started to feel like a story. speilberg should have tackled this one. Joseph wrote: > So I watched HOW THE GRINCH STOLE CHRISTMAS knowing that Dr. Seuss' > stories never disappoint. And I like the story. although i think the expansion of the story, ie, the modernization of the materialism theme, was perfectly in line with Seuss' work, i think the story line and direction were too weak to make anyone care. the character development of the grinch was heavily flawed, and there was none for anyone else. > I like Ron Howard films (THE PAPER, EDtv) but at the back of my mind, I > sincerely thought he was kind of miscast (mishelmed?) as a director for > such a film. Maybe I came to expect films like this to be handled by > Hollywood's resident quirk director Tim Burton that I thought it lacked > the requisite darkness and menace especially in the production sets. tim burton is an interesting idea. i actually don't like spielberg at all, but i thought he would have done a better job with this. the stories he takes on are very formulaic, but they are relatively flawlessly constructed. the problem is, i didn't care about cindy lu who or any of the other whovians. in seuss' story, they take more of a back seat. if you bring them into the fore, it seems they need to be more loveable. it's a difficult thing to think about - burton seems way too dark to pull off seuss, yet his quirkyness is closer to his work than any director i can think of. spielberg might overly sentimentalize it. the thing about seuss is that he is the master of whimsy. the man was truly a genius, and i don't know that there are too many of those running around hollywood. i actually am beginning to think ron howard doesn't have an ounce of talent. actually, that's wrong, he has a very well-honed talent for making hollywood formula, nothing more. i didn't see "the paper". EDtv was a good script, but i thought it was as predictable as can be. i worked on "splash", which i thought was terrible. didn't he do "contact"? that film is actually ok, but still could have been much better (wim wenders would be my choice for that script). the one thing i thought was really well done in that film was the protest/camping out scene - the gathering of political/spiritual tribes where they were building the space traveling machine. anyhow, i thought most of what didn't work for me about "grinch" was due to ron - the film just didn't flow. > On Wed, 22 Nov 2000, Catherine McKay wrote: > > > Let me tell you - I have never laughed so much, or so > > consistently, throughout a film in ages. i think i laughed 4 times. didn't seem like even the kids were laughing as much as you might expect. a lot of the lines were meant for the adults, and those sometimes got me. the dog was pretty fabulous, too, but i just didn't find it as funny as it could be.after i asked, my niece & nephew said they liked it, but they didn't talk about it at all, which they usually do after seeing a movie. > > I absolutely > > loved it and couldn't recommend it highly enough. i'll just reinsert my warning that i found some of it crass. it'll get your 8 year olds giggling, but i find some of it completely inappropriate for tots. > > And I wasn't sure about Jim Carey in the title role, > > but he was just perfect. Despite all the makeup and > > hair all over him, every facial expression was > > captured. You forgot it was Carey - he really becomes > > the Grinch. i never forgot he was carey for a second. go back to boris karloff & chuck jones! that's some acting. > > Go see this film - take your kids, take your parents, > > take your grouchy friends! It's delightful. If you > > don't like it... you're a mean one! just in case you're thinking i'm just too serious & don't like light fluff kids' movies... this kid movie thing is a thanksgiving tradition. we saw "flubber", which i thought was really stupid, but not offensively so. we saw "101 dalmations", which wasn't as good as the animated one, but i liked it and there was a lot of clever stuff in there (and the dogs were real cute). i still get together with some adult friends every couple of years to watch "chitty chitty bang bang" (i love the grandfather!), and can sit through "mary poppins" any day of the week. "grinch" just pissed me off on every level. my first thought was that ted geisel must be rolling over in his grave. and some grinch related thoughts - there's an album by Deanna Kirk with a great jazzy cover of "you're a mean one, mr. grinch" on it. she sang it when opening for jane siberry's "child" (christmas music) tour and i had to buy it on the spot. the rest of the album is pretty good, too. i also highly recommend the biography "Dr. Seuss & Mr. Geisel" by Judith & Neil Morgan. oh, and one good thing about the movie - anthony hopkins as the narrator. barbara np: the best of the staple singers ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 25 Nov 2000 15:06:33 EST From: Gertus@aol.com Subject: Re: Books (NJC) From Susan:- > Here are a few of my faves. I think this may be my favorite book, > Siddartha, Herman Hesse. I also love, The Bell Jar by Ms. Plath, > Catcher In the Rye of course J. D. Salinger and Naked by David Sedaris. Those are all favourite books of mine, too, apart from the last one which I had never heard of. I'm wondering whether you know the songs of Ralph McTell. After reading the book Siddartha he wrote the song "The Ferryman", a beautiful song which I heard him perform only a few weeks ago, although written in the early '70s, I think. Around about the same time he composed "Sylvia" after reading The Bell Jar. A very thoughtful songwriter. Jacky ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 25 Nov 2000 13:15:55 -0800 From: Randy Remote Subject: Re: Today in Joni History - November 13 addendum > Even stranger was that she dated Motorhead, which is why she ended up at > Frank's place... Motorhead is/was a band, right? Three guys? You mean she was dating all of them at once???? Old lady of the year indeed. RR ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 25 Nov 2000 21:48:34 +0000 From: catman Subject: NJC USA refuses to reduce emissions Unfortunately the meeting at The Hague with regard to getting a worldwide agreement on the reduction of carnon emissions has failed becuase the USA does not wish to do this. - -- bw colin colin@tantra.fsbusiness.co.uk http://www.geocities.com/tantra_apso/index.html ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 25 Nov 2000 16:58:29 EST From: CaliMermeyd@aol.com Subject: Re: songs with street names wow, All i can think of is "Easy Street" from Annie, a play i absolutely despise. - -zelda ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 25 Nov 2000 17:04:39 EST From: CaliMermeyd@aol.com Subject: Re: Gross out on TV, Saturday Night Live, NJC oh yeah, wow, I was just wondering why you didn't use the ultimate tv-trash blocker: the channel changer! if you dont like what you see, use it!...dont watch till the very end. In a message dated 11/21/2000 9:55:58 AM Pacific Standard Time, RAVEN@igc.org writes: > At 12:15 11/19/2000, Jim L'Hommedieu wrote: > > >Did anyone see the cartoon feature on Saturday Night Live called "Sex > >In the Country" last night? It was a take off on "Sex In the City" > >but amazingly, featured a cartoon man having sex with farm animals, > >with dialog, over and over and over. In one scene, he and a farm > >animal were in a sex swing. In another scene, he's zipping up his > >pants. I'm sorry to sound puritanical but, to me, it was just TOO > >much information and decidedly not funny. > > I'm a little curious... if it grossed you out so much, why did you > stay with it until the last disgusting scene? :) > > And does this mean you're going to turn off your TV again, and miss > the daily re-runs of your favorite TV series, "Northern Exposure"? > > John - gazing at the Joni portrait I just bought from Henry Diltz > -- > RAVEN ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 25 Nov 2000 16:42:12 -0500 From: "Jim L'Hommedieu" Subject: RE: Gross out on TV, Saturday Night Live, NJC Yeah, I know. I almost didn't send it to JMDL because of that very thing. (I would never complain to the local station about this- I don't want the show taken off.) The reason I did send the post to JMDL was because.... it's like.... when I was in high school, beastiality was so gross that they would never even refer to it on broadcast tv. Yet now.... geees. now, they have a basically soft-core porn on for fans of beastiality. It's available for every high school senior who stays up to watch SNL. There are alot of things on SNL that aren't great. I watched the very first SNL, when George Carlin bombed. Yes, he bombed. I've always chosen to be patient with skits that might have a weak premise, for example, because I like to see what the artists are doing. (Think of Belushi and Bill Murray doing the Killer Bees.) I approach SNL with a great deal of patience because it's still unique and is a little taste of big city satire and experimental theatre, brought right to my small Midwest existence. So, I'm not calling for the End of SNL. I'm just saying, as a middle aged guy, who doesn't even have a parental perspective, "Gees, this is ground breaking but is it good? Is it funny? Do we think that 3 minutes of cartoon bestiality is going to help bring viewers back?" I must admit that Loren Michaels (is he producing this year?) and I have had differing opinions before. Remember Andy Kaufman? In fact Andy is a perfect analogy to draw. Yeah, he was not mainstream but that doesn't mean he's automatically good enough to get the gig, ya know? I guess I respect what SNL does way too much to turn it off just because one skit offended me. I like Art that pushes the envelope. That's why I'll keep on watching SNL and bitch when they miss the mark. Loren, long may you run. Lama -----Original Message----- From: CaliMermeyd@aol.com [mailto:CaliMermeyd@aol.com] Sent: Saturday, November 25, 2000 5:05 PM To: RAVEN@igc.org; jlamadoo@home.com; joni@smoe.org Subject: Re: Gross out on TV, Saturday Night Live, NJC oh yeah, wow, I was just wondering why you didn't use the ultimate tv-trash blocker: the channel changer! if you dont like what you see, use it!...dont watch till the very end. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 25 Nov 2000 17:49:18 EST From: RoseMJoy@aol.com Subject: songs with street names I just remembered another .... Love Street- The Doors - -Rose in NJ ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 25 Nov 2000 17:47:37 -0500 From: "Jim L'Hommedieu" Subject: Don't Read This! - Craziness, NJC Hi Chris, I'm not a legal scholar but I play one on the JMDL. I've been keeping up most days with the "revoltin' developments" as Satch used to say in the Bowery Boys series. To answer your question, yes it's true that a machine does not count dimpled indentations. But should it? As Marcel has pointed out, there are clear instructions to those voters who-are-serious-enough-to-follow-the-directions, that they must make a complete perferation and that the chips (chads) must fall off. Is it fair to zero-out a legal vote with a completely punched ballot by allowing a dimpled indentation to count as a valid vote for the opposition? So, I ask _you_ now Chris, if you were in America.... What would you say is fair? Should a dimple count? Is it fair to count dimples in one county and not another? (Some states haven't defined a valid chad.) Is it fair for the state of Florida to leave these definitions to their individual, very small and biased boards? I'm not trying to beat you up here, but it's not as simple IMHO, as you want to make it. It's not "Hand count = Fair". My point is that it's not a simple case of accepting hand counts 'cause they're good. I think some healthy outrage is appropriate at this point and I strongly hope that ALL states will define for their boards, these procedures of when hand counts are allowed, who decides when to recount, whether or not a hand count is _automatically_ prefered over a machine count, and what to do when a _requested_ (not mandatory) hand count misses a legislated deadline, etc. Furthermore, it's my understanding that Florida prescribes that a hand count is _mandatory_ in only 2 cases: * Vote Fraud, and * Machine Malfunction Since neither of those two things have been alleged in Florida, we don't have a clear case that the "will of the people", All of the people, is served by a hand count. Now it's pretty clear that one candidate is well served by a hand count but that's not what the law is interested in protecting. This is why, IMHO, the Florida Supreme Court's decision was controversial. As I understand it, they said that they want to be sure, in this very close election, with so many eyes and so much riding on the Florida outcome, that they want to give the county election boards enough time to conclude their hand counts. (Arguably they should have doubled or trebled or quadrupled their efforts to get the count in on time.) In the majority opinion, I believe that "The Supremes" said that they would not "disenfranchise" Florida voters in order to "punish" the county election boards. I think this means that they want all of the votes visible in a hand count to 'count' (by extending the deadline) rather than blame the boards for, basically, failing to do their job of finishing the counting on time. Anyway, I agree with Rev Vince that the system is working and will yield a result in time. I hope that the People, who traditionally have the attention span of gnats, will have longer memories in this case, and insist upon legislation that spells out these thorny, partisan definitions and procedures. We shouldn't leave these issues dangling, like uncertian one-corner chads. We should not depend on the judiciary to "step into the shoes" of the legislature and executive branches in the wake of every close election. Let's FIX it! Chris said, [[Is there (I'm asking here, not suggesting) an issue with the automated counting machines not being able to decipher a dimpled/partially punched/ totally punched hole? I seem to recall hearing a radio commentator comment (heh) that the hand count had revealed that the automated count was inaccurate. Could partially punched/dimpled hole count for that? Surely if you suspect the automated machinery to be, um, mechanically partisan, then a hand count is the only way to go *to be sure*. ]] Lama PS- the good news: We don't hear anymore about counting double punches as valid ballots anymore! Sheesh! np: A most excellent version of "Mona Lisas and Mad Hatters", written by Sir Elton John and Bernie Taupin, and performed by Ann and Nancy Wilson. (Thanks Nikki!) ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 25 Nov 2000 17:36:16 -0800 (PST) From: Robert Glenn Plotner Subject: A Milan Riot? Speaking of odd moments in Joni concerts (ref. Zappa), does anyone have any information on Joni's Milan, Italy concert of May 9, 1983? The concert is somewhat noisy but seems to be progressing at an enthusiastic pace. Then some kind of disturbance can be heard during "For Free," a sound of perhaps an angry crowd chanting and setting off pyrotechnics outside the arena. The arena crowd encourages Joni, but at this point the song is really wasted. Eventually she comes back and apologizes, "Well I'm sorry that it wasn't a bigger place. Apparently there was a little trouble outside, but its quieted down now." Then during "A Case of You," distant sirens can be heard. Joni says something like "I was trying to play to the cops..." She tries to stay focused but the atmosphere outside, with more rockets (or is that the police?), is very disruptive. She seems a little shaken and concludes the song saying "it's a war zone." Does anyone have an idea of what transpired here? Robert ===== Seriously Disturbed: A humor magazine http://www.seriouslydisturbedhumor.com/ The Archival Group: Dedicated to preserving and sharing the legacy of live music. http://www.archivalgroup.f2s.com/ or subscribe http://www.topica.com/lists/archivalgroup/ Yahoo! Shopping - Thousands of Stores. Millions of Products. http://shopping.yahoo.com/ ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 25 Nov 2000 17:45:37 -0800 (PST) From: Robert Glenn Plotner Subject: Re: Zappa & Joni On the Zappa/Joni show, I am told: According to Greg Russo's book Cosmic Debris the date of the concert is the 14th not the 13th, there were 2 shows featuring Sha Na Na, J.F. Murphy And The Free Flowing Salt & Joni Mitchell. Best regards, Robert ===== Seriously Disturbed: A humor magazine http://www.seriouslydisturbedhumor.com/ The Archival Group: Dedicated to preserving and sharing the legacy of live music. http://www.archivalgroup.f2s.com/ or subscribe http://www.topica.com/lists/archivalgroup/ Yahoo! Shopping - Thousands of Stores. Millions of Products. http://shopping.yahoo.com/ ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 26 Nov 2000 01:53:15 +0000 From: catman Subject: river the other night I recorded something on tv and left it running as I went to bed. Tonight I was trying to find what i had recorded and found I had recorded the film that followed. It was called LOVED with William Hurt and Robin right Penn. Never heard of it or seen it and still havne't. However, whilst rew and playing looking for the other program I stumbled a cross a scene with Joni singing River. This was bnot background stuff. The whole song was played as the only thing you could hear. the characters etc were silent. - -- bw colin colin@tantra.fsbusiness.co.uk http://www.geocities.com/tantra_apso/index.html ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 26 Nov 2000 02:32:59 -0000 From: "Chris Marshall" Subject: RE: Don't Read This! - Craziness, NJC > So, I ask _you_ now Chris, if you were in America.... What would you say is > fair? Ah, Jim, I wasn't playing devil's advocate, merely asking for clarification of some things I'd heard on the radio. I did take care to point out that I did not have the whole story (heh, pun definitely intended)... If I *have* to answer your question, then yes, I guess anyone who fails to follow the instructions (and perhaps indirectly, the people they were trying/failing to vote for) deserve what they get. The reason I'd equated hand count with fair was because I'd got the impression from the UK radio reports I'd heard that there was doubt over the accuracy of machine counts. I'm a software and internet engineer by trade, and one of the axioms in this business is that as soon as you lose confidence in the correctness of operation of some automated system, you revert back to something manual to check its operation - your control sample as it were. It doesn't usually matter *why* your confidence has been shaken up: you stil go check. I was not trying to, and I paraphrase, "make it simple." And further, (don't take this the wrong way) to really answer truthfully, I'd have to really care strongly about the American election, and I'd have to have been caring strongly about it for some time. I'm afraid I don't, and I haven't. I simply don't and hadn't the time to. I guess I'm vaguely interested to hear who's next, though, before too long. [ Side comment: I finally found pictures of the ballot cards on the web. It really does have all the design "features" of something designed by committee, n'est ce pas? ] - --Chris Chris Marshall Secure Systems Integration Ltd Web: http://www.secure-si.co.uk/ Tel: +44 (0) 7970 459 553 Fax: +44 (0) 1954 201 741 E-mail: chris@secure-si.co.uk Short Msg: mobile@secure-si.co.uk PGP key: http://www.secure-si.co.uk/chris/pubkey.txt Fingerprint: 86F2 8809 FAC2 37ED 491A FD7D 7CAF 3206 E706 D3B3 ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 26 Nov 2000 02:41:44 -0000 From: "Paul Headon" Subject: The day Joni got angry hi I just saw Joni get angry. It was a TV broadcast of the Isle of Weight (sp?) festival in the UK many years ago at the end of the 60's / begining of the 70's. The crowd was restless because of festival politics about free entry to the festival. A man had just interupted Joni's set by coming onto the stage and had gone right up to her to speak. The man was ushered away and Joni tried to restart her set -no chance the crowdwas too noisy. She then explained that her music was fun to perform but it meant a lot to her and she and the other musicians deserved respect .Joni then told a story ( nearly in tears with anger) about an Indian festival she had attended recently where some tourists had acted like indians, with respect, and some indians had acted like tourists She then accused the crowd ,and it was very large, of acting like tourists. The result ? well she sang a couple of songs and left to stading ovation ! An example of how couragous Joni can be, i think. Cheers, Paul Headon Swansea Wales UK ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 25 Nov 2000 23:27:12 EST From: MGVal@aol.com Subject: Re: The day Joni got angry In a message dated 11/25/00 6:50:58 PM Pacific Standard Time, p.headon@net.ntl.com writes: << She then accused the crowd ,and it was very large, of acting like tourists. The result ? well she sang a couple of songs and left to stading ovation ! An example of how couragous Joni can be, i think. >> There's an interesting counter story. I was reading a rock and roll anecdote collection and Joni was doing a concert at a prison in California, (perhaps San Quentin?). The crowd was no collection of ladies who burp discretely and she got disgusted and upset with the crowd and chided them to get into the mood of the music. The inmates were reportedly less than appreciative of her performance and things went over poorly because she failed to read or understand her audience although she had no problem bursting into righteous anger. Joan Baez followed Joni's performance and reportedly had them all eating out of her hand. MG ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 25 Nov 2000 22:47:09 -0800 From: Michael Paz Subject: Happy FBDay (NJC) A very Happy Fucking Birthday to Brian and Jim. Brian I hope you liked the Mag Jimbo, now that you are a big boy, you need to BEHAVE!!!! Love Paz NP-MI2 in the distance ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 25 Nov 2000 23:49:29 -0500 From: "cassy" Subject: Re: The day Joni got angry - -----Original Message----- From: Paul Headon > >I just saw Joni get angry. It was a TV broadcast of the Isle of Weight >(sp?) festival in the UK many years ago at the end of the 60's / begining of >the 70's. You've got to love it as the younger (not necessarily biologically younger) Joni fans discover her many facets! Cassy NP: John Mellencamp "Rough Harvest" ------------------------------ End of JMDL Digest V2000 #625 ***************************** ------- Post messages to the list by clicking here: mailto:joni@smoe.org Unsubscribe by clicking here: mailto:joni-digest-request@smoe.org?body=unsubscribe ------- Siquomb, isn't she?