From: les@jmdl.com (JMDL Digest) To: joni-digest@smoe.org Subject: JMDL Digest V2000 #624 Reply-To: joni@smoe.org Sender: les@jmdl.com Errors-To: les@jmdl.com Precedence: bulk VideoTree sign-up: http://www.jmdl.com/trading Unsubscribe: mailto:joni-digest-request@smoe.org?body=unsubscribe Archives: http://www.smoe.org/lists/joni Websites: http://www.jmdl.com http://www.jonimitchell.com JMDL Digest Saturday, November 25 2000 Volume 2000 : Number 624 The 'Official' Joni Mitchell Homepage, created by Wally Breese, can be found at http://www.jonimitchell.com. It contains the latest news, a detailed bio, Original Interviews, essays, lyrics and much much more. The JMDL website can be found at http://www.jmdl.com and contains interviews, articles, the member gallery, archives, and much more. Sign up for VideoTree #2 now: http://www.jmdl.com/trading ========== TOPICS and authors in this Digest: -------- Re: grey hair ["Susan" ] Happy Birthdaze! (NJC) [MGVal@aol.com] Re: Street Songs (NJC) ["Vadim Litvin" ] RE: Books (NJC) ["Susan" ] Re: not for want of tyring NJC [Catherine McKay ] Today in Joni History - November 23 [Today in Joni History ] Re: Today in Joni History - November 23 ["Mark or Travis" ] Re: the sags are coming!!!!!! njc [Emily Kirk Gray ] Re: Today in Joni History - November 23 [SCJoniGuy@aol.com] Re: onlyJMDL Digest V2000 #444 [SCJoniGuy@aol.com] Re: not for want of tyring NJC [catman ] RE: grey hair ["Wally Kairuz" ] Today in Joni History - November 13 addendum [Today in Joni History ] Re: Today in Joni History - November 13 addendum [SCJoniGuy@aol.com] Palm Beach Voting Instructions (no joke) NJC [MDESTE1@aol.com] Re: NJC Madison, meet Burr [Les Irvin ] NJC Hamilton, meet Burr [Vince Lavieri ] Tree Museum [Vince Lavieri ] Re: Songwriting- Rhymes, NJC (md) ["Jim L'Hommedieu" ] Republicans vs. Democrats (NJC) [CarltonCT@aol.com] ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Fri, 24 Nov 2000 09:03:49 -0600 From: "Susan" Subject: Re: grey hair > Alison wrote: but now my grey seems to > be winning the war. I can't decide whether to bite the > bullet and go for real dye, or let my Emmy Lou happen > naturally. > Well when I was about 22, I thought it would be cool to take one good size lock in the front corner of my hair and bleach it completely white. I though it would be very punk! It never went back to my original color. And within 2 years, that entire lock went totally white, permanently. Until about 5 years ago it really stood out, but now the rest of my locks are catching up ... and fast! I think I'll do a little coloring, but leave that streak in the front, cause it still draws a little attention and I need all the help I can get! Peace Susan ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 24 Nov 2000 10:39:18 EST From: MGVal@aol.com Subject: Happy Birthdaze! (NJC) Beating WallyK to the punch, I'd like to wish very, very warm birthday greetings, (especially since it's a marrow chilling 41 degrees out here this morning), to two list members: Jim L'amamamamamadamamamadoo and Brian Gross. I had the pleasure of meeting them both at the same time at Julie's house a few years ago. Same meeting place, same birthdays: how the heck can I keep them apart? Best wishes and many more to come, MG ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 24 Nov 2000 18:05:16 +0200 From: "Vadim Litvin" Subject: Re: Street Songs (NJC) 1985 Ekstasy Drive - Nina Hagen ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 24 Nov 2000 10:04:19 -0600 From: "Susan" Subject: RE: Books (NJC) I have finally compiled a combination of favorite books and /or authors. I haven't read as much in the past 5 - 10 years, because of work and stress it became hard to read much without falling asleep. So, I am not a heavy reader, but it has been one of my goals - to do more reading. My Robin was a ravenous reader and would give me a synopsis of all the books she read ... anything so she could have the floor, hence the spotlight! Here are a few of my faves. I think this may be my favorite book, Siddartha, Herman Hesse. I also love, The Bell Jar by Ms. Plath, Catcher In the Rye of course J. D. Salinger and Naked by David Sedaris. I love - that I love Ayn Rand despite our conflicting view points. And ever since high school I have been a huge Anais Nin fan. I read 3 of her diaries, probably 3 or 4 of her novels, short as they are and her erotica. She is most poetic, whether she be writing in her diaries, or her "fiction" or her porn. I have dreamed of living like she lived, although I could have done with out Henry Miller and spent more time with June! Also I enjoy short stories very much, The Lottery, Tell- Tale Heart, The Cask of Amontillado. Short story writers such as Doris Lessing, Virginia Wolf, Colette, Katherine Anne Porter, Edgar Allen Poe and Willa Cather. I think this is an art form that is all but disappeared. Maybe, I should start my career as a writer with a short story and work my way up to a novel. Peace Susan ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 24 Nov 2000 11:14:47 -0500 (EST) From: Catherine McKay Subject: Re: not for want of tyring NJC - --- catman wrote: > Despite trying for 20 years John and I are still not > pregant so for now we leave bringing > up babies to our dogs. > > I can't think what we are doing that doesn't work. > 1. You're just not trying enough. 2. You're trying too hard! Get your free @yahoo.ca address at http://mail.yahoo.ca ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 23 Nov 2000 00:06:00 -0600 From: Today in Joni History Subject: Today in Joni History - November 23 1985: Melody Maker today publishes a short review on Dog Eat Dog, saying "She's ditched the recent jazz preoccupation for more classic Mitchell, meandering and full of warm inflections with a contemporary instrumentation." Read it here: http://www.jmdl.com/articles/docs/851123mm.cfm - -------- Know a date or month specific Joni tidbit? Send it off to JoniFact@jmdl.com and we'll add it to the list. - -------- ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 24 Nov 2000 09:05:46 -0800 From: "Mark or Travis" Subject: Re: Today in Joni History - November 23 > 1985: Melody Maker today publishes a short review on Dog Eat Dog, saying > "She's ditched the recent jazz preoccupation for more classic Mitchell, > meandering and full of warm inflections with a contemporary instrumentation." Isn't it funny how perceptions can be so different, even change from one period of time to the next. I wonder if this reviewer would still hold the same view today? How many of us would call 'Dog Eat Dog' 'more classic Mitchell' when compared to her 'jazz preoccupation?' How many of us would say that her 'jazz preoccupation was the true classic Mitchell? How many would call the first 3 or 4 albums the true classic Mitchell? Is there such a thing as 'classic Mitchell?' If you think there is, which period & why do you think so? Mark in Seattle wondering..... ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 24 Nov 2000 12:14:39 EST From: StDoherty@aol.com Subject: Re: onlyJMDL Digest V2000 #444 Several years ago a Canadian Joni-tribute album was released (sorry, I can't remember the name) but I recall thinking how pedestrian all of the arrangements sounded. Shortly after that, I heard an interview with Joni where she said (something like) no one on the album understood that the chords, the melody and the lyrics of her songs are all separate and somewhat independent of each other. This concept perhaps helps to explain why I can sing her songs a capella and I can chord them just fine but when I try to put the two together, I get lost. (Or maybe I'm just an incompetent musician!) susan+rick have it wrong. The tribute album to Joni (Back to the Garden) didn't have pedestrian arrangements. They were fine, some better than others, but fine just the same. This Flight Tonight, The Hissing of Summer Lawns, Black Crow being particular stand outs. Factor in the time of release and the artists asked to perform. They did a good job and in some instances the combination of the chords, lyrics and melody made the songs refreshingly new. The folks on this album took a few more risks than the performers on the recent television tribute (Though Cindi Lauper, Diana Krall, Richard Thompson, and Cassandra Wilson did superb arrangements and performances). I haven't seen much discussion of this tribute recording. How do people generally feel about it? ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 24 Nov 2000 09:38:07 -0800 From: susan+rick Subject: songwriting Perhaps I should have added IMHO to my comment about the performances on Back To The Garden. I stand by my opinion. You can have yours but I won't call you wrong. Rick > From: StDoherty@aol.co > Several years ago a Canadian Joni-tribute album was released (sorry, I can't > remember the name) but I recall thinking how pedestrian all of the > arrangements sounded. Shortly after that, I heard an interview with Joni > where she said (something like) no one on the album understood that the > chords, the melody and the lyrics of her songs are all separate and somewhat > independent of each other. This concept perhaps helps to explain why I can > sing her songs a capella and I can chord them just fine but when I try to > put the two together, I get lost. (Or maybe I'm just an incompetent > musician!) > > susan+rick have it wrong. The tribute album to Joni (Back to the Garden) > didn't have pedestrian arrangements. They were fine, some better than others, > but fine just the same. This Flight Tonight, The Hissing of Summer Lawns, > Black Crow being particular stand outs. Factor in the time of release and > the artists asked to perform. They did a good job and in some instances the > combination of the chords, lyrics and melody made the songs refreshingly new. > The folks on this album took a few more risks than the performers on the > recent television tribute (Though Cindi Lauper, Diana Krall, Richard > Thompson, and Cassandra Wilson did superb arrangements and performances). > > I haven't seen much discussion of this tribute recording. How do people > generally feel about it? ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 24 Nov 2000 12:44:19 -0500 (EST) From: Emily Kirk Gray Subject: Re: the sags are coming!!!!!! njc thanks wally! i had a great birthday/thanksgiving day celebration... it was nice to be remembered here on the list! hope you all had a good holiday. - --emily ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 24 Nov 2000 12:57:24 EST From: SCJoniGuy@aol.com Subject: Re: Today in Joni History - November 23 > Is there such a thing as 'classic Mitchell?' If you think there is, > which period & why do you think so? > I think there is, but it has less to do with a genre of music (rock, folk, jazz, etc.) and more to do with the unique things she brings to her music; her swooping vocals, which can be found as early as "Night In The City" and as recent as "Harlem in Havana". Her rhythmic guitar work, where she picks and strums simultaneously, the piano chords that only SHE seems to know, and above all, the lyrics that go where nobody else can imagine to go. Bob ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 24 Nov 2000 13:02:38 EST From: SCJoniGuy@aol.com Subject: Re: onlyJMDL Digest V2000 #444 > I haven't seen much discussion of this tribute recording. How do people > generally feel about it? > When it was shared as a tape tree in summer '99, it was not very well-received. Most people don't like their familiar Joni songs tampered with. I thought it was very creative, and liked the take on "Free Man In Paris" and "Songs To Aging Children" the best. The only one I didn't care for is the goofy-country version of "You Turn Me On, I'm A Radio". For those that missed the tape tree offer, but would like to check it out (on tape or CD), lemme know and we can work it out! :~) Bob, staying miles away from the malls... ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 24 Nov 2000 18:40:55 +0000 From: catman Subject: Re: not for want of tyring NJC Catherine McKay wrote: > --- catman wrote: > > Despite trying for 20 years John and I are still not > > pregant so for now we leave bringing > > up babies to our dogs. > > > > I can't think what we are doing that doesn't work. > > > > 1. You're just not trying enough. that's what I think > > 2. You're trying too hard! that is the opposite of his problem > Get your free @yahoo.ca address at http://mail.yahoo.ca - -- bw colin colin@tantra.fsbusiness.co.uk http://www.geocities.com/tantra_apso/index.html ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 24 Nov 2000 16:19:56 -0300 From: "Wally Kairuz" Subject: RE: grey hair but susan! then how will we tell cruella deville from you?!?!?!? wallyK - -----Mensaje original----- De: owner-joni@jmdl.com [mailto:owner-joni@jmdl.com]En nombre de Susan Enviado el: Viernes, 24 de Noviembre de 2000 12:04 p.m. Para: Joni Discussion Asunto: Re: grey hair I think I'll do a little coloring, but leave that streak in the front, cause it still draws a little attention and I need all the help I can get! Peace Susan ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 24 Nov 2000 13:38:00 -0700 From: Today in Joni History Subject: Today in Joni History - November 13 addendum Now HERE's a topic for discussion! I found this on a Frank Zappa webpage today. Anyone know anything about this? Les - -------------------------------------- Joni Mitchell sat in with The Mothers, on November 13th, 1970, at the Fillmore East in NYC. "Joni Mitchell sat in with us last night during the second show and we improvised a thing that was really good. And we ended it with her singing 'Duke of Earl'. Really far out, she came on stage: 'Now OK and we're going to improvise this thing...' and we did a few chords for her and she started reciting this poem which began: 'Penelope wants to fuck the sea..." And the audience did a double take 'Yuuunk!'... a little hush falls over the Fillmore... JONI MITCHELL?" - -Zappa, 1970 (Source: Miles) From: DennisMahony (dmahony@prodigy.net): Yeh, I was at that show when Mitchell improvised a tune about a girl who wanted to fuck the sea. While she tried to be ethereal and haunting, Zappa made the band alternate 2 monster chords a tritone apart at an ominous largo tempo. Mitchell looked a little thrown by this and glanced over at Zappa, as if she wasn't expecting him to lob her a curve ball. From: Harald Wiester (Harald.Wiester@uni-konstanz.de): I4ve read somewhere that she showed up at least once at Zappa4s place in the late 604s. Seems a very strange connection to me (was she wearing feathers and bells?) From: David Wilcher (wilcher@ibm.net): Even stranger was that she dated Motorhead, which is why she ended up at Frank's place... From: Charles Ulrich (chulrich@interchange.ubc.ca): 1. Joni Mitchell was Motorhead's "strange new girlfriend", circa 1967. 2. She sat in with the Mothers at the Fillmore East on 11/13/70. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 24 Nov 2000 15:08:30 -0700 From: Today in Joni History Subject: Today in Joni History - November 25 1976: Joni joins The Band's "Last Waltz" at the Winterland Ballroom in San Francisco. She sings backup to Neil Young on "Helpless" and with The Band on "Acadian Driftwood", performs "Coyote", "Shadows And Light", and "Furry Sings The Blues", and joins Bob Dylan, Van Morrison, Neil Diamond, Dr John, and others for the grand finale "I Shall Be Released." Photos and more information: http://www.jonimitchell.com/LastWaltz.html 1982: Rolling Stone reviews "Wild Things Run Fast", saying that it "might have been called COURT AND HEJIRA. It is almost a great record, on a par with FOR THE ROSES and CLOUDS." Read it here: http://www.jmdl.com/articles/docs/821125rsx.cfm 1982: Rolling Stone publishes an article today in which Joni is quoted as saying "...when we started in this business, we were the ones who said you can't trust people over thirty. It was inevitable that we would eat a lot of what we said, because you have to turn thirty unless you wanna James Dean out. Now I'm finally hearing some good things about middle age. We need that. If all the war babies turn forty and get depressed at the same time, the world will not be pleasant." Read the rest at: http://www.jmdl.com/articles/rs821125.htm 1994: Joni makes the cover of this week's LA Weekly. Joni is quoted "My music is not designed to grab instantly. It's designed to wear for a lifetime, to hold up like a fine cloth. If you're in the right place, these records are waiting to go off in your life, you know. But if you're in the wrong space, which, luck of the draw, for the last 20 years I seem to have had reviewers in the wrong space...and I've been trashed for too long. The final insult is to watch my imitators elevated while I'm still being trashed. So if I don't get my just dues soon, I'm going into hermitdom. Fuck you all. (Laughing.) I'm going to take up my brushes. I don't care." How can you not read the rest? http://www.jmdl.com/articles/docs/941125law.cfm - -------- Know a date or month specific Joni tidbit? Send it off to JoniFact@jmdl.com and we'll add it to the list. - -------- ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 24 Nov 2000 17:39:05 EST From: SCJoniGuy@aol.com Subject: Re: Today in Joni History - November 13 addendum > and we did a few chords for her and she > started reciting this poem which began: 'Penelope wants to fuck the > sea..." And the audience did a double take 'Yuuunk!'... a little hush > falls over the Fillmore... JONI MITCHELL?">> I'm thinking that the full lyric is in the "Ladies of the Canyon" book that Leslie Mixon has a copy of...Leslie was kind enough to let me thumb through her copy while we were going for coffee in Boston, and this phrase rings a bell...Leslie, could you check and see if that piece of poetry is indeed in that book? Bob NP: CSNY, "Marrakesh Express", live in Philly '00 ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 24 Nov 2000 19:47:36 EST From: MDESTE1@aol.com Subject: Palm Beach Voting Instructions (no joke) NJC From the voting instructions card for Palm Beach: "AFTER VOTING, CHECK YOUR BALLOT CARD TO BE SURE YOUR VOTING SELECTIONS ARE CLEARLY AND CLEANLY PUNCHED AND THERE ARE NO CHIPS LEFT HANGING ON THE BACK OF THE CARD." From the Official PALM BEACH COUNTY SUPERVISOR OF ELECTIONS website. http://pbcelections.org/ Link to the "Voting Instructions" card for Palm Beach: http://pbcelections.org/Sample%20Ballots/instruct.jpg Or from this page, under "Voting Instructions": http://pbcelections.org/Sample%20Ballots/sampleballot.htm ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 24 Nov 2000 18:17:18 -0700 From: Les Irvin Subject: Re: NJC Madison, meet Burr At 11/23/2000 08:39 PM, Vince Lavieri wrote: >Should Bush become president, America will survive: we did survive Nixon, >Regan, and Bush the elder. We will survive. >Should Gore become president, my antiGore friends, America, and you, will >survive. We will survive. Yeah Rev! I applaud your excellent post. Anybody up for some Joni conversation? Any Zappa fans on the list? Do you think a recording exists of Joni's performance with Zappa? Now, there's some material for a tape tree! Les NP: Neil Young "Don't Cry No Tears" ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 24 Nov 2000 22:24:18 -0500 From: Vince Lavieri Subject: NJC Hamilton, meet Burr Well, I am embarrassed; while the entire time I was writing that post I was thinking of Hamilton, first Sec of Treasury, etc., and shot by Burr, I typed the name Madison who was of course a president and not shot by Burr but also one of the Federalist authors and for a grievious error like that I should be shot by Burr... Thanks David for correcting me! David Marine wrote: > I always thought that Burr shot Hamilton? And might I add, in another post from my good friend in San Francisco, Marcel, he referred to the articles of impeachment against Nixon: Article 1, obstruction of justice, which after the tape was released which showed Nixon directed the CIA to lie to the FBI to get them to stop investigating the break-in, the final vote on that was unanimous, the other Republicans joining the original six who supported that article; Article 2 involved the break-in to Ellsberg's doctors office, illegal wire taps, unlawful activities relating to the confirmnation of Kleindienst as attorney general, and other illegal activities. Areticle 3 was for defying Congressional subpoenas. I am not at all sorry that Nixon, for subversion of justice, resigned as president rather than face what would have been almost unanimous impeachment by the House and conviction by the Senate. Hillary Rodham was a minor House Judiciary Committee staffer, as were many top law students, law clerks, and law grads of her day. I am not at all sorry that Clinton was not convicted on any count, that neither of the two counts of impeachment could get a majority of the vote in the US Senate as on both counts Republican Senators supported acquittal. These articles arose from statements made ina a civil suit that was tossed out by a federal judge that involved private behavior - as opposed to directing criminal coverups in the Oval Office - and it would appear that Clinton will pay the proper price for that, with disbarrment and the settlements that were made. We can all match our rage and anger and go on and on and on about this current election thing or past historical events but I do believe - not a promise but a threat - that I am done on it. The Supreme Court will hear one appeal by Bush and whatever happens will happen and the wars in this place will not assist in any way. My next posts for as long as I can hold out will all be on Joni, including what my grandson had to say about her tonight. Peace, love, tranquility, and generousity of spirit be with us all, (the Rev) Vince ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 24 Nov 2000 22:36:13 -0500 From: Vince Lavieri Subject: Tree Museum I have posted before - and I am sure you all remember !!!! :-) how my grandson Gage (who is 5) and I go across the street every week to watch the many month-long process of ripping out a perfectfully wonderful field (that we used to hike on) and putting in another mega-store with mega-asphalt parking lot -- and we always sing, of course, Big Yellow Taxi. Today we noted that another portion of this field was ripped up to put up the new gas station, where there used to be a cope of trees. And when we got to the line, "they took all the trees and put them in a tree museum" he didn't laugh as he usually does, since he has thought of that as the funniest thing he could imagine. Instead he got silent and stopped singing while I continued, "and they charged all the people a dollar and a half just to see him" and he interrupted me and said, "Poppy, what a rip-off. The trees belong to everyone. Where can we go see trees now?" So we drove a while to find some trees to look at. (the Rev) Vince, a most proud Poppy of the world's best grandson who considers this a Joini content post since it reveals a new generation of thoughtful Joni fans interacting with her lyrics... ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 24 Nov 2000 22:59:27 -0500 From: "Jim L'Hommedieu" Subject: Re: Songwriting- Rhymes, NJC (md) Rhymes. Michael Y. took Stevie Wonder to task a few weeks ago for this: "When I was a little nappy headed baby boy, when my only worry, was for Christmas what would be my toy." I don't mind that at all. Not one little bit because I _like_ to work as a listener. I like having to stretch a little, to pay attention, to be pulled in. To sit on the edge of the chair. That doesn't insult me. What insults me is a simplistic rhyme. Here's one. I really do like this next artist because her words on her debut single (Surrounded) were so strong. But on the album, I found this: "When I go swimming in your intellect the water's so shallow, and the dialog is so phony but I eat it up like baloney." When I first heard this song, I saw it coming but I couldn't prevent it- ya know? I heard her go "... phony" then follow it with "eat it up" and I jumped up, thinking > "No! She's setting me up for "baloney". > Chantal!! Don't use 'baloney'! > DON'T USE 'BALONEY'!!" But it was too late. :) Anyway, "under these rocks and stones" is actually quite a nice album. Peter Asher produced and you KNOW he doesn't waste his time! I really enjoyed seeing her on a solo tour (just Chantal and a grand piano.) I prefer the acoustic versions of many of these songs. I think it's a shame when a talented piano player / songwriter gets buried by their own band. (Sir Elton John?) Anyway.... All the best, Lama ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 25 Nov 2000 01:54:41 EST From: CarltonCT@aol.com Subject: Republicans vs. Democrats (NJC) Like Reverend Vince, I feel that the recent political discussions on the list have highlighted the differences between us here and created some fractures. I offer these final thoughts in the truest spirit of friendship which is to be completely honest in regard to some important issues. It's hard for me to hide my own passions as someone who has always wanted to see Al Gore elected as President. Besides being a democracy, America is largely a meritocracy, and no one would deny that Gore is incredibly ambitious and has prepared his entire life to becoming Commander in Chief to enjoy that position's power and prestige. Bush is not well prepared, is not presidential and is not intellectually competent. He expects the presidency to land in his lap the way everything else has as the fortunate son of wealthy, aristocratic parents (don't let that goofy, West Texas accent fool you). More importantly, Gore ran on issues which are very important to me and should be to everyone: the saving of the planet from mankind's thoughtless exploitation of it in the search for personal wealth. Bush has denied that global warming is a problem, which should be a real problem for us all. No doubt, Gore would not be able to implement every ecological policy he would like to because he had to compromise his genuine views in order to be a viable candidate. Ralph Nader and Pat Buchanan did not have to compromise their views because neither of them intended to win his campaign. In terms of gay rights, I will never forget Bush's own Texas delegation praying during the speech of the one openly gay Republican speaker at their convention (an individual who was dragged out of the closet) and Bush not having any comment on his delegation's behavior. The Republicans are to be congratulated this year for keeping the extreme right in the freezer because they know it was to their advantage to at least appear more mainstream. Should Bush squeak into the Oval Office, it will be interesting to see how much the extreme right will reemerge. Clinton deserved the nickname Slick Willy, but Bush has him beat for being evasive about his real position on issues, and that I suspect, is because Bush has no genuine views, no passions but baseball and the furthering of his own popularity. Every woman who believes in control of her own body and reproductive rights had to vote for the one viable candidate who will not nominate justices with the intent of reversing Roe v. Wade. Most people did not see any urgent issues in this year's campaign. With the exception of Israel/Palestine, the world is at peace and rogue nations like North Korea and Yugoslavia are rejoining the fold of cooperating nations. The environmental crisis isn't quite here yet -- though Britain's floods have convinced some that the threat of global warming is more than the alarmist sentiments of some "junk scientists," a demeaning term which like "fuzzy math" seeks to abjectly deny facts and considered opinions with a childish and empty dismissal, the equivalent of giving the raspberries. My personal objection to the Republican party is that they are largely the party of "business as usual". They are reactive instead of proactive. Clinton maintains my admiration and respect because of his continued initiatives, something he continues to do as a lame duck president with his recent trips to North Korea and his tireless attempts to negotiate a treaty for the Middle East. I can't begin to enumerate all the domestic programs he has initiated, something he did on an almost monthly basis. Most Americans can't remember what he accomplished either, but many will dismiss him because of failures in his personal life. Bush made much about the Clinton administration's failure to reform health care in the debates, but Clinton attempted to create a national health plan with his wife. They were not only opposed purely out of partisan contempt, they were vilified for the attempt -- Hillary was resisted in particular because Republicans were hostile to the notion of a woman being a c o-president, of being half of the "two for one" that Clinton promised to voters. Of course, Nancy Reagan and her f*cking astrologist were really running the country in those final years of the Reagan administration, but she did it in a quiet way. Republicans always come late to the table. Bush says he is for the "don't ask, don't tell" policy, but if that hadn't already happened, he would never have pushed for it and gays would still be banned from the military. In the Roosevelt years, the Republicans opposed Social Security, now they say they want to reform it. Throughout the Sixties, the Republicans did little to gain voting and civil rights for blacks, and almost none of them were for ending the war in Viet Nam. The Democrats were as responsible for Viet Nam as the Republicans, but it took McGovern, a Democrat, to make the ending of the Viet Nam war the central issue of his campaign. Instead, we just lost the war, and more lives, a short time later under Nixon. I hated what happened under the Reagan and Bush administrations. After the illusion of prosperity was created with deficit spending, we saw that prosperity did not trickle down. I saw my own safe, pleasant neighborhood in Venice get overrun with an entire homeless city on the beach after funding for their housing ended. Rents rose by five and ten fold. I was hit up for change every time I left my house to walk my dog and crime was rampant -- I got mugged, my house was broken into, kids sold crack on the corner. The disparity between rich and poor was at its greatest and the actual spending power of the dollar was greatly diminished. I remember junk bonds and an unregulated economy, and how it crashed in 1987. I remember the first George Bush calling Reagan's economic polices (trickle down in particular) voodoo economics, and Bush being unable to salvage the disaster he himself had predicted. I remember Reagan saying that trees caused more pollution than cars, and stating his belief to his staff that saving the environment was not important because Jesus and the Rapture was coming soon. As a religious skeptic, I strenuously object to that last notion. I will never, ever forget the complete neglect of the AIDS crisis by the Reagan administration. Years of my life were gladly given over to struggling, private organizations who attempted to combat the ravages of our own holocaust. The failure of Reagan to even acknowledge the crisis for its first eight years was nothing less than being a tacit partner in genocide. A person's politics is directly connected to his personality, so that's why it's so tough to convince someone that they ought to vote differently -- you have to change them from the inside. For instance, people who are paranoid are the most politically conservative. The best example of this would be the arch-conservative John Birch society that was absolutely sure that the Pope and the Kennedys and Roosevelt and the World Bank and the United Nations were all part of a communist conspiracy. Would anyone give them any credence now? One of my brothers is the only Republican among my siblings, and he is also the most materialistic, as well as the only one inclined to racism and sexism. The Republicans come late to issues like equality for women and minorities -- they are never in the vanguard of these kinds of movements if not opposed to their principles. The Republicans are not the party who will ever make initiatives to save the environment and curb polluting industries because they are more connected to the concerns of Big Oil. They are generally more interested in the values of making money than in the values of preserving the earth, it's diverse ecosystems, and it's rarest beauties. I once heard Rush Limbaugh say that if the "spotted owl got in the way of jobs and logging and building new developments, then screw it." That's the type of limited, unimaginative thinking which infuriates me. The spotted owl is more important than more suburbs and a 7/11 on every corner. Talk about paving paradise.... My high school years were spent in a community which was 95 per cent Republican, and it was 98 per cent white and upper middle to upper class. The vast majority of the students in my high school were racist in more subtle ways than my Southern kin, but the real racism of the community was effectively implemented in their secretive policies to keep blacks and Latinos from moving in. Those policies were less overt in earlier decades when there were actual laws on the books (laws that were later struck down as unconstitutional) that prohibited blacks and Latinos from spending more than 24 hours within city limits. Jews were also discriminated against in the same area, and had to found their own city of Beverly Hills to build their mansions. Though I have a few friends who are - gulp! - gay Republicans, being a Republican is always a strike against someone in my book. They better have a lot of other positive qualities to win my friendship. On a personality level, they are largely the kind who "have been broken in churches and schools and molded to middle class circumstance." The only time they are ever funny is when they try to dance. Anyway, this is the last I will have to say about these topics, because truthfully, I can't convince anybody here or in Florida to do things differently. I simply am not influential in any of the crucial spheres to do anything about it, so it's all academic. I do hope that this crisis will result in the elimination of the Electoral College, which like our measuring system, is something ridiculous and antiquated. It also has an ignominious history as being a part of the balancing act of free and slave states before the Civil War. I am glad that Senator Elect Hillary Clinton has made it one of her priorities to see the E.C. go. It violates the one man/one vote rule which is of particular importance in electing a chief executive, as he presides over all of us in the 50 states. There is dirty politics on both sides of the recount in Florida, but what I hope will prevail is that the will of the people will be expressed, and that every vote that was legally cast should be counted. It's really that simple. There was an interview on the news this evening with the creator of Florida's vote counting machine who vindicated *hand counts* as more accurate (I am sure Marcel will uncover that this man is a registered Democrat). Bush's people are working just as hard "to steal" this election as Gore's people are and each night the pundits mention how Bush and Gore violate their own beliefs as to whether states or the federal government are the ultimate authority. In the end, we need to change the Constitution and whatever documents we need to in order to end the Electoral College, and just as importantly, to get the kind of gun control they have in modern, more civilized countries like France, Great Britain and Japan which have a fraction of our murder rate. It's a whole other topic, but I want freedom *from* guns whose profusion threatens every American's primary right to life itself. Our founding documents should not be inviolable. This country was founded by a group of atheists and deists who wanted to the end the authority of the Bible and organized Christianity of various types in order that we should all be free of tyranny and presumptive authorities who used notions like the Divine Right of kings and papal infallibility to maintain control over the populace. We can take the next step and make our country a truer democracy with a direct vote for President. Personally, I'm hoping Gore fights on since the popular vote has vindicated him as our next leader. But if Bush gets in by whatever means, I'll be happy it's over because it's a terrible distraction, and stressful. I'm not even close to meeting my latest deadline. So these are *my* final thoughts -- I can't get in any more e-mail discussions on or off list because I really need to get some work done. Nothing personal. Love, peace and sexual ecstasy to you all, Republicans included. - - Clark NP: Vertical Horizon ------------------------------ End of JMDL Digest V2000 #624 ***************************** ------- Post messages to the list by clicking here: mailto:joni@smoe.org Unsubscribe by clicking here: mailto:joni-digest-request@smoe.org?body=unsubscribe ------- Siquomb, isn't she?