From: les@jmdl.com (JMDL Digest) To: joni-digest@smoe.org Subject: JMDL Digest V2000 #618 Reply-To: joni@smoe.org Sender: les@jmdl.com Errors-To: les@jmdl.com Precedence: bulk VideoTree sign-up: http://www.jmdl.com/trading Unsubscribe: mailto:joni-digest-request@smoe.org?body=unsubscribe Archives: http://www.smoe.org/lists/joni Websites: http://www.jmdl.com http://www.jonimitchell.com JMDL Digest Tuesday, November 21 2000 Volume 2000 : Number 618 The 'Official' Joni Mitchell Homepage, created by Wally Breese, can be found at http://www.jonimitchell.com. It contains the latest news, a detailed bio, Original Interviews, essays, lyrics and much much more. The JMDL website can be found at http://www.jmdl.com and contains interviews, articles, the member gallery, archives, and much more. Sign up for VideoTree #2 now: http://www.jmdl.com/trading ========== TOPICS and authors in this Digest: -------- Re: Not so PC books - NJC ["Kakki" ] Re: Joni in Vietnam and other assorted ramblings ["Kakki" ] Re: Here is a great offer (NJC) [FMYFL@aol.com] Re: Here is a great offer NJC [SCJoniGuy@aol.com] Re: VideoTree #2 & The TapeTree Faq [SCJoniGuy@aol.com] RE: VideoTree #2 & The TapeTree Faq ["Peg Eves" ] Re: Not so PC books - NJC (md) [MDESTE1@aol.com] street songs ["Mike Hicks" ] Re: VideoTree #2 & The TapeTree Faq [Mark Domyancich ] Re: Offnight Backstreet ["Mark or Travis" ] Re: Offnight BackstreetNJC [catman ] Today in Joni History - November 21 [Today in Joni History ] Trashy reads (NJC) [Steve Dulson ] Re: street songs NJC [mintagli@email.ypf.com.ar] Traveling with some existentialist . . . [Catherine Turley ] RE: Traveling with some existentialist . . . ["Peg Eves" ] Re: street names [susan+rick ] VideoTree #2- TREE STRUCTURE [AsharaJM@aol.com] Re: Gross out on TV, Saturday Night Live, NJC [RAVEN@igc.org] Fwd: VideoTree #2 & The TapeTree Faq [AsharaJM@aol.com] Re: NJC: street names [Murphycopy@aol.com] Re: PC men/women NJC [catman ] Re: MAD Magazine - (SJC) [FMYFL@aol.com] Re: Not so PC books - NJC [Siresorrow@aol.com] Re: fred simon and mc lea NJC [FredNow@aol.com] Re: Here is a great offer NJC [Scott Price ] RE: PC men/women NJC ["Peg Eves" ] Songs with street names (NJC) [Fonimitchell@aol.com] Re: Songs with street names (NJC) [susan+rick ] Re: birthdays NJC ["Diane Evans" ] Re: Trashy reads (NJC) [MGVal@aol.com] NJC: songs w/ street names [Jane ] RE: Offnight BackstreetNJC ["Chris Marshall" ] Re: Offnight BackstreetNJC [Jason Maloney ] Street Names [AzeemAK@aol.com] Re: Offnight BackstreetNJC [catman ] ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Tue, 21 Nov 2000 00:01:52 -0800 From: "Kakki" Subject: Re: Not so PC books - NJC Hell posed: > So now for the real truth! What authors/books do you read >that you'd rather NOT admit to. We've done this with the >music thread recently, and discovered all the closet-Brittany >Spears fans out there, so 'fess up. Oh good thread! I used to be a bookaholic when I was younger and read anything and everything but since I read so much legal stuff and mind-numbing business documents all day on my job, my eyes are about ready to fall out by the time I get home and I have no strength leftover for engrossing novels (regretably). So to "bring me down" from the hard stuff, I turn to the lightweight, easy and ultimately insignificant stuff like biographies of (oh shame) royal families, celebs and rock stars or slim volume philosophy and esoterica like "A Gnostic Book of Hours", or "The Art of Worldly Wisdom" and also archetypal psychology books. I also devour non-fiction accounts of celebrity legal cases or notorious law firms ;-) Kakki, also completely addicted to Mad magazine in the old days ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 21 Nov 2000 00:10:17 -0800 From: "Kakki" Subject: Re: Joni in Vietnam and other assorted ramblings Stephen! I can hardly believe you are gone and back already! I'm so glad you had a great trip. I had a wonderful time with you and Rusty at the DG - it was great to meet you both - you guys are fantastic. Poor Rick, though, I feel like something put me into sustained Joni chatter mode that day ;-) You wrote: > I hear the radio in the background and I recognized the tune >as BSN (being sung by a Vietnamese folk/rock group). >Rusty and I looked at one another in total shock. It was >very surreal. Always thinking of Bob :-) This is tooo much! It looks like we have a new holy grail on our hands. I'm on the scent here on the ground in L.A. ;-) Glad you made it home safely! Kakki ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 21 Nov 2000 00:26:47 -0800 From: "Kakki" Subject: Re: Joni Met Nash in Ottawa? > At http://www.jmdl.com/articles/docs/960622oc.cfm today I >read that Joni met Graham in Ottawa. Graham was still in >the Hollies. Apparently this was before she moved to L.A. >with David. Previously I had thought that she met > Graham in L.A.. Hmmmm..... > > The article didn't mention any date attached to the >meeting. Does someone have a timeline? Jim, I've read about this first meeting in a few books. Joni and Graham both discuss it in the CSNY biography, which puts the date as February 1968 in Ottawa on the Hollies firrst North American tour. Joni was living in L.A. by then - she moved there with Crosby in Fall 1967 - but was on a short tour of Canada at the same time. Their accounts are a good page and a half long (pgs. 59-60) and I'm too tired to type it out now but it's sweet. Graham fell right into the basket the moment he met her and when the Hollies tour took him to the West Coast shortly thereafter, he looked her up. Still disputed to this day, even among the boys themselves, is whether they all first met at Joni's house or at Cass Elliott's in Laurel Canyon. Kakki ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 21 Nov 2000 06:34:54 EST From: FMYFL@aol.com Subject: Re: Here is a great offer (NJC) In a message dated 11/20/00 10:58:25 PM Eastern Standard Time, jmichaelpaz@telocity.com writes: << Buy.com is selling a spindle of 100 of the TDK Certified discs for $38.99. There is also a $20 rebate associated with the purchase, and there is a coupon for $10 off a new buy.com customer, making your total price about $9 for 100 discs. Here are the links. http://www.us.buy.com/retail/computers/category.asp?loc=224 (the rebate offer can also be found there) http://i.am/deardeer (coupons) >> Michael, you've become a coupon queen! What have you done with Laura Mann? Laura, where are you? Laura? Jimmy ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 21 Nov 2000 07:07:23 EST From: SCJoniGuy@aol.com Subject: Re: Here is a great offer NJC << Here is a great offer for all you CD burners and sluts out there (Hi Bob!) >> Thanks, Michael, but I can only use the "Audio" CD's...but I was able to catch a 20% off sale at Best Buy this last weekend, and stocked up! :~) Bob NP: Raised on Robbery, London '83 ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 21 Nov 2000 07:17:53 EST From: SCJoniGuy@aol.com Subject: Re: VideoTree #2 & The TapeTree Faq << I DO hope that everyone enjoys this group of recordings. I'm sure you will. There's some truly wonderful music included this time. >> That's a FACT, JACK!! Her performance of "The Dawntreader" on The Way It Is, with Flute, bongo, and orchestra, ALONE is worth the price of the package! To actually see her perform Gift of the Magi & talk about it! And to watch her play Circle Game, while she brings her hand over the top to play some of the chords... Anyone who thinks Joni's not a genius on the guitar is definitely high on something... Bob ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 21 Nov 2000 07:49:04 -0500 From: "Peg Eves" Subject: RE: VideoTree #2 & The TapeTree Faq Oh, she's a genious with the guitar alright! And with melody! And with lyrics! And with something I can't name. Peg > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-joni@jmdl.com [mailto:owner-joni@jmdl.com]On Behalf Of > SCJoniGuy@aol.com > Sent: Tuesday, November 21, 2000 7:18 AM > To: simon@icu.com; joni@smoe.org > Cc: AsharaJM@aol.com > Subject: Re: VideoTree #2 & The TapeTree Faq > > > << I DO hope that everyone enjoys this group of recordings. > I'm sure you will. There's some truly wonderful music included > this time. > >> > > That's a FACT, JACK!! > > Her performance of "The Dawntreader" on The Way It Is, with > Flute, bongo, and > orchestra, ALONE is worth the price of the package! > To actually see her perform Gift of the Magi & talk about it! > And to watch her play Circle Game, while she brings her hand over > the top to > play some of the chords... > > Anyone who thinks Joni's not a genius on the guitar is definitely high on > something... > > Bob ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 21 Nov 2000 07:56:37 EST From: MDESTE1@aol.com Subject: Re: Not so PC books - NJC (md) I have always been interested in testing my views so I read things by good writiers who would be totally on the other side of the political and economic spectrum. Noam Chomsky (radical left) is a good example. Lester Thurow (economist). I dare all you lefties on this list to read two books. Sell Out by David Shippers (lifetime democrat-voted for Clinton twice- impeachment counsel for the Majority) and see if you can remain sanguine about Al "Can I be your Commander in Chief if I wont let you vote" Gore and The Secret Life of Bill Clinton by Ambrose Evans Prichard. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 21 Nov 2000 08:25:30 -0500 From: "Mike Hicks" Subject: street songs Terminal Street - Be Bop Deluxe Mike ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 21 Nov 2000 07:02:58 -0600 From: Mark Domyancich Subject: Re: VideoTree #2 & The TapeTree Faq That technique is called an overhand barre, and she uses it al least one more time on Eastern Rain. I was never positive she actually did such a thing, but thanks for reaffirming it Bob. Can't wait to get them! Will leaf assignments be announced today? At 7:17 AM -0500 11/21/00, SCJoniGuy@aol.com wrote: >And to watch her play Circle Game, while she brings her hand over the top to >play some of the chords... > >Anyone who thinks Joni's not a genius on the guitar is definitely high on >something... > >Bob - -- Mark Domyancich Harpua@revealed.net tape trading: http://homepage.mac.com/mtd/ ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 21 Nov 2000 09:16:25 EST From: RoseMJoy@aol.com Subject: Re: joe farrell NJC In a message dated 11/20/00 11:56:56 PM Eastern Standard Time, FredNow@aol.com writes: << Hey ... me, too! What am I, chopped liver? -Fred >> No, You certainly are not. Happy F*cking Birthday Fred & Joe! Rose in NJ ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 21 Nov 2000 09:23:38 EST From: RoseMJoy@aol.com Subject: Re: songs with street names What about Old Beale Street? Rose in NJ ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 21 Nov 2000 09:36:38 EST From: IVPAUL42@aol.com Subject: Re: songs with street names In a message dated 11/21/00 9:34:09 AM Eastern Standard Time, RoseMJoy@aol.com writes: << What about Old Beale Street? Rose in NJ >> Walking in Memphis by Marc Cohn? ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 21 Nov 2000 09:47:05 -0500 From: dsk Subject: Re: What do you like to read (NJC) Hi Diane, Wonderful questions, all of these! My internet service is wacky these days. I just received your message and I'm about to leave to catch a train to Virginia, so can't respond to this, but I will as soon as I return. Short answer though is books of reproductions of artwork. Happy Thanksgiving to you! And to everyone on the list too; you're all in my prayers of thanks this holiday. Debra Shea Diane Evans wrote: > Debra, > > You wrote: > > >And for enjoyment and inspiration, some art books are in the pile too. > >Currently the most thumbed ones are of frescoes by Fra Angelico and > >paintings > >and drawings by Gustav Klimt. There's something about the elegance and > >stillness of the figures and all that gold leaf used by both artists that > >appeals to me these days, although boldly colorful Matisse is never far > >away. > > I'm curious. Do you look at these books "simply" for the joy of the art? > Or do you also read the text? Are they books of the collections, > biographies, or criticisms? I read a lot of art books (lately more > biographical) and always wonder if, when other people do, whether they are > in the field or not. > > Fra Angelico has long been a favorite; he reminds me of Raphael and > Botecelli as well. (I think my spelling is off there, but I'm too tired to > care much.) For sheer moxie, I love Fra Fillipo, too. I like more of > Matisse's later works, when his eyes and hands were failing him and he made > all those wonderful arabesques of color and form. Do you enjoy Albrecht > Durer? I think he has that same clarity of form that catches our breath in > Angelico and Raphael. > > I have a hard time thinking of Klimt without thinking of Shakespeare, for > some reason. There's a feeling of tragic love and honor lurking in his > work. > > Who else do you like? Anyone more contemporary? > > Diane > _____________________________________________________________________________________ > Get more from the Web. FREE MSN Explorer download : http://explorer.msn.com ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 21 Nov 2000 06:44:37 -0800 From: "Mark or Travis" Subject: Re: Offnight Backstreet > that's a good take i never thought of, mark! maybe i was influenced by the > previous line ''i can feel your fingers feeling my face...'' and also by the > fact that bob muller identified two new gray hairs in my beard at ashara's > and he was so kind as to let me know!!!!!! Take it from one who knows, dearie, either get some Grecian Formula or get over it! The damn things are worse than rabbits when it comes to multiplication! Mark in Seattle ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 21 Nov 2000 15:07:58 +0000 From: catman Subject: Re: Offnight BackstreetNJC > Take it from one who knows, dearie, either get some Grecian Formula or > get over it! The damn things are worse than rabbits when it comes to > multiplication! It gets worse! Found any in your pubes yet? I have been going grey since my 20's, mostly the sides. > > > Mark in Seattle - -- bw colin colin@tantra.fsbusiness.co.uk http://www.geocities.com/tantra_apso/index.html ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 21 Nov 2000 00:04:00 -0600 From: Today in Joni History Subject: Today in Joni History - November 21 1970: Joni performs at London's Royal Festival Hall. The concert is reviewed by the Alberta Hearld who writes "Joni, 26, uses a guitar, piano and dulcimer, an ancient instrument, as accompaniments for her original songs which, The Financial Times says, express "the rather tarnished hippie dream in conventional words and music."" Read it here: http://www.jmdl.com/articles/docs/701125ah.cfm 1975: Joni performs with the Rolling Thunder Revue in Boston singing 'Edith and The Kingpin' and 'Don't Interrupt The Sorrow'. 1982: Joni marries Larry Klein at Elliot Roberts' home in Malibu, California. 1994: Joni performs an acoustic showcase at 41 Queensgate Terrace, London - her first UK appearance in 12 years. - -------- Know a date or month specific Joni tidbit? Send it off to JoniFact@jmdl.com and we'll add it to the list. - -------- ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 21 Nov 2000 07:56:00 -0800 From: Steve Dulson Subject: Trashy reads (NJC) Hell asked: >So how many of you DON'T read Playboy for the articles? There are *articles* in Playboy???? - -- ######################################################## Steve Dulson Costa Mesa CA steve@psitech.com "The Tinker's Own" http://www.tinkersown.com "Southern California Dulcimer Heritage" http://members.aol.com/scdulcimer/ "The Living Tradition Concert Series" http://www.thelivingtradition.org/ ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 21 Nov 2000 13:02:23 -0300 From: mintagli@email.ypf.com.ar Subject: Re: street songs NJC Fascination Street, The Cure ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 21 Nov 2000 08:15:26 -0800 From: Catherine Turley Subject: Traveling with some existentialist . . . As a long time dweller in the Hejira camp, I had quite the shock of recognition when I came across this passage from the notebooks of Albert Camus (published in 1963): "What gives great value to travel is fear. It is the fact that, at a certain moment, when we are so far from our own country , , , we are seized by a vague fear, and the instinctive desire to go back to the protection of old habits. This is the most obvious benefit of travel. At that moment we are feverish but also porous, so that the slightest touch makes us quiver to the depths of our being . . . " I've never seen the Joan linked with Camus before, but I guess she is now--has this been discussed on list before? Catherine T. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 21 Nov 2000 08:49:41 -0800 From: "Kate Bennett" Subject: Subject: street names I don't know if you have these already: 6th Avenue Heartache The Long & Winding Road ******************************************** Kate Bennett featured this month at Taylor Guitars www.taylorguitars.com/artists/awp/indies/ www.katebennett.com www.cdbaby.com/katebennett www.amazon.com ******************************************** ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 21 Nov 2000 12:26:45 -0500 From: "Peg Eves" Subject: RE: Traveling with some existentialist . . . > Camus: > At that moment we are feverish but also porous, so that the slightest touch makes us quiver to the depths of our being . . . " Wow. That's really intriguing Catherine!! Thanks for posting that. Peg ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 21 Nov 2000 09:23:49 -0800 (PST) From: Jane Subject: NJC: street names Anne- How about "Carefree Highway" - Gordon Lightfoot? Jane Yahoo! Shopping - Thousands of Stores. Millions of Products. http://shopping.yahoo.com/ ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 21 Nov 2000 09:32:49 -0800 From: susan+rick Subject: Re: street names > If you can think of any others, please let me know. How about Sunny Goodge Street, a minor hit in the 60's by Tom Northcott and done by Judy Collins on an early album. Rick ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 21 Nov 2000 11:48:45 EST From: AsharaJM@aol.com Subject: VideoTree #2- TREE STRUCTURE Hi everyone! Here is the Tree Structure for VideoTree #2. I will send the Tape Tree FAQ's that simon posted this morning separately to all of you in case you missed it. It should answer any questions you may have. If you do have additional questions, please e-mail me directly. I will be away from Wednesday through Sunday, so be patient if you don't hear from me right away. All Branch tapes have been sent out, and most should be recieved by this time. Special note to all PAL Branches and Leaves: Janene Otten is transferring your tapes into PAL format, so there may be additional time needed to complete this process. Please be patient. Also, for PAL Branches: Many of you have Leaves spanning the globe. If this is a problem in any way, please get back to me. Thanks! Hugs, Ashara TREE STRUCTURE BRANCH: Brian Gross (briangross@rocketmail.com) VHS 1. Brian Meyer (zumabm@aol.com) VHS 2. Mark Domyancich (Harpua@revealed.net) VHS 3. Scott Price (sp@olympus.net) VHS 4. Deb Messling (messling@enter.net) VHS 5. Rose Marie Joy (rosemjoy@aol.com) VHS BRANCH: Jerry Notaro (notaro@stpt.usf.edu) VHS 1. Victor Johnson (waytoblu@mindspring.com) VHS 2. Colleen Castle (leenycas@aol.com) VHS 3. Alton Purvis (dattapes@yahoo.com) VHS 4. Jill Linn (cactustree@excite.com) VHS 5. Amy Laber (Allaber@aol.com) VHS 6. Dod Stewart (dods@bellsouth.net) VHS 7. Tim Verhaegen (tv118@aol.com) VHS 8. Scott Passin (sgp@home.com) VHS BRANCH: Heather Galli (luvart@snet.net) VHS 1. Alice Sebrell (alice@mindspring.com) VHS 2. Mona A. Fitzgerald (monafitz@aol.com) VHS 3. Blair Michael Fraipont (Jahwaka80@hotmail.com) VHS 4. William Burnworth (cspring@gs.verio.net) VHS 5. Pearl Weisberg (WirlyPearl@aol.com) VHS BRANCH: Steve Springer (vista@iquest.net) VHS 1. Peg Eves (peves@marlboro.edu) VHS 2. David Sapp (davidsapp@peoplepc.com) VHS 3. Lisa Kowalski (magicflute@mindspring.com) VHS 4. Kerry Nikutta (myrtlmoo@ticon.net) VHS 5. Mary Pitassi (PitassiM@WEAC.org) VHS BRANCH: Jim L'Hommedieu (jlamadoo@home.com) VHS 1. Scott Tennell (stennell@yahoo.com) VHS 2. Eric Wilcox (edwilcox@students.wisc.edu) VHS 3. David Marine (dpm42@columbia.edu) VHS 4. Michael Brenneman (PourSha@msn.com) VHS 5. Mike McEachern (wmceachern3763@charter.net) VHS 6. Patti Haskins (phaskins@swbell.net) VHS 7. Jenn Paddock (bug_04@hotmail.com) VHS 8. Jill Tamada (jill@opticalres.com) VHS BRANCH: Sue Cameron (scam1@freeway.net) VHS 1. Jody Johnson (johnsonjs@earthlink.net) VHS 2. Leslie Shapiro (shapiro@ocd.mclean.org) VHS 3. Kelly Loughran (nightflight12@hotmail.com) VHS 4. Steven Barton (stevenbarton@home.com) VHS 5. Lance A. Michel (nabalom@sirius.com) VHS BRANCH: Michael Paz (jmichaelpaz@telocity.com) VHS 1. Kakki (kakkb@att.net) VHS 2. Julius Mills (jrmco1@aol.com) VHS 3. Mark Scott (mark.travis@gte.net) VHS 4. Susan McNamara (sem8@cornell.edu) VHS 5. Don Fluke (ELECTRICITY@WORLDNET.ATT.NET) VHS BRANCH: Philip Fulham (philipf@eircom.net) VHS, PAL (Ireland) 1. Michael Clifford (mdc22@cam.ac.uk) PAL (UK) 2. Robbie Mathews (dbainlab@ctv.es) PAL (Spain) 3. Giuseppe Joe Slomp (jslomp@jslomp.it) PAL (Italy) 4. Frank Eyre (frankeyre@hotmail.com) PAL (Ireland) 5. Adriano Lucatello (lucatell@ictp.trieste.it) PAL (Italy) BRANCH: Dave Foers (dfoers@globalnet.co.uk) VHS, PAL (UK) 1. Wally Kairuz (wallykai@yahoo.com) VHS (Argentina) 2. Howard Wright (howard@jmdl.com) PAL (UK) 3. Marian Russell (m.russell@iaea.org) PAL (Austria) 4. Gerald McNamara (G.McNamara@bom.gov.au) PAL (Australia) 5. Jacky Walls (gertus@aol.com) PAL (UK) 6. Chris Marshall (chris@secure-si.co.uk) PAL (UK) 7. Chris Dainty (dainty_c@bucks.net) PAL (UK) 8. Cristsbal Gallino (crischicken@yahoo.com) VHS (Argentina) 9. Angela Incardona (anginca@tin.it) PAL (Italy) BRANCH: Bill Pearson (bill@l3r.com) PAL (UK) 1. Jill Halstead (j.halstead@wmin.ac.uk) PAL (UK) 2. Cyrille Clerix (cypho@yucom.be) PAL (Belgium) 3. Joe Farrell (joe.farrell@ukonline.co.uk) PAL (UK) 4. Clive Sax (Chorando6@aol.com) PAL (UK) 5. Paul Headon (p.headon@net.ntl.com) PAL (UK) 6. Rob Ettridge (robettridge@hotmail.com) PAL (UK) 7. Dave Coleman (dave.coleman@jmc.co.uk) PAL (UK) 8. Vernon Parker (vernon@park6.freeserve.co.uk) PAL (UK) 9. Frank Caldwell (fhejira@aol.com.au) PAL (Australia) BRANCH: Steve Ponsonby (rustiescot@LineOne.net) PAL (Scotland) 1. Vadim Litvin (vadiml@honour.usb.dp.ua) PAL (Ukraine) 2. Nicholas Bates (nbates@ihug.com.au) PAL (Australia) 3. Monica Cardinale (cco@xs4all.nl) PAL (The Netherlands) 4. Gordon Mackie (gordon.mackie@strath.ac.uk) PAL (Scotland) 5. Jorge Calvet (jorge_calvet@yahoo.com) PAL (Spain) BRANCH: Deb and Walt Rodgers (CatGirl627@aol.com) 1. Medric Faulkner (megg56@yahoo.com) VHS 2. Michael Cooper (cooperm@rockinst.org) VHS 3. Chris Garthwaite (xhohx@earthlink.net) VHS 4. Pam Bartlett (pbart123@aol.com) VHS 5. Phil Gibbs (phil.gibbs@riomail.maricopa.edu) VHS BRANCH: Phil Fallo (pfallo@aol.com) VHS 1. Jeffrey Guss (JGuss@email.msn.com) VHS 2. Janine Sherman (sherman@netrax.net) VHS 3. Maurice Patton (mp123a321@aol.com) VHS 4. Linda Montelione (ltara@mindspring.com) VHS 5. Robert Lewis, MD (rdlewis@pol.net) VHS 6. Rick Worden (Rworden7752@aol.com) VHS 7. Brenda Walker (brenda@killinggoliath.com) VHS 8. Terry Reid (westcoat98@aol.com) VHS BRANCH: Paul Peterson (ppeterson4@aol.com) S-VHS, VHS 1. Zelda Brody (CaliMermeyd@aol.com) VHS 2. David Skoglund (skogl004@tc.umn.edu) VHS 3. Brad Levy (bradl@zyan.com) VHS 4. Lindsay Moon (moonlj@san.rr.com) VHS 5. Dan Metziga (danray@earthlink.net) VHS 6. Joe Strodel, Jr. (jstrodel@healthcareprovider.com) VHS 7. Zelda (CaliMermeyd@aol.com) VHS 8. Loren Carter (lorencarter@usa.net) VHS BRANCH: John Calimee (f40rmr1@corn.cso.niu.edu) VHS 1. Emmy Burns (emmy34@juno.com) VHS 2. Debra Shea (dsk11@bellatlantic.net) VHS 3. Frank Tortorici (f.tortorici@conference-board.org) VHS 4. Casey Certis-Milby (caseycm@cruzio.com) VHS 5. Chris Cochran (TheHotelNH@aol.com) VHS 6. Lori Fye (lrfye@yahoo.com) VHS 7. Jim Murray (jmurray@mail.uca.edu) VHS BRANCH: Nikki Johnson (stealth@voicenet.com) VHS 1. Patricia O'Connor (p.a.oconnor@att.net) VHS 2. Everett Berger (erayberg@yahoo.com) VHS 3. John Tartaglia (evributjon@aol.com) VHS 4. Gary Zack (garyzack@ameritech.net) VHS 5. Andy Stancliffe (astancli@library.ucla.edu) VHS BRANCH: Robert Holliston (rhollis@home.com) VHS (Canada) 1. Ken Sharp (slarty@sympatico.ca) VHS 2. James Leahy (jamesl@total.net) VHS 3. Greg Dexter (eternalmoment@telus.net) VHS 4. Ron Nusca (rnusca@globalserve.net) VHS 5. Patrick Willoughby (pwillow@axion.net) VHS 6. Rob Procyk (evian@sk.sympatico.ca) VHS BRANCH: Guy Brown (guyb@rain.org) VHS 1. Catherine Tippin Coffey (rsax@pacifier.com) VHS 2. Mitch Rustad (rusty10113@aol.com) VHS 3. Dean French (dogbyte@aloha.net) VHS 4. Patrick Leader (patrickl16@earthlink.net) VHS 5. Rachel Nielsen (rachelnd@altavista.com) VHS BRANCH: Kathryn Kimbrough (catnap@cjnetworks.com) VHS 1. Debra Kaufman (djk@duke.edu) VHS 2. Susan Guzzi (susang@mail.fadc.com) VHS 3. Andrew Baio (andy@kickmedia.com) VHS 4. Frank Kostek (Fjk44@aol.com) VHS 5. David Sapp (davidsapp@peoplepc.com) VHS 6. Richard Dale (rdale@erisco.imshealth.com) VHS 7. Donna Roberts (donna212@alltel.net) VHS BRANCH: Steve Anderson (dylanfan@home.com) VHS 1. Richard Goldman (richard2@earthlink.net) VHS 2. Jeff Paster (jpaster@ix.netcom.com) VHS 3. John Kelly (jkellyco@att.net) VHS 4. Susan Glumac (sueglu@home.com) VHS 5. Ed Beatty (edbeatty@pe.net) VHS 6. CJ McKenna (katencj@ptd.net) VHS 7. Randy Remote (guitarzan@saber.net) VHS BRANCH: Margaret Watt (margaret_watt@transcanada.com) VHS (Canada) 1. Peter Rettinger (peter_rettinger@hotmail.com) VHS 2. Jean-Pierre Pellerin (jppellerin@videotron.ca) VHS 3. Slac (ondulees@telus.net) VHS 4. Valerie (vergerus@interlog.com) VHS 5. Rick Novosel (rnsc@direct.ca) VHS BRANCH: Kevin Licht (kevin_e_licht@email.whirlpool.com) VHS 1. Cindy Vickery (cindy09876@aol.com) VHS 2. Amy Hahn (queenaim@msn.com) VHS 3. Dave Gertler (dgertler@concentric.net) VHS BRANCH: John Miller (raven@igc.org) VHS 1. Nicholas Moore (cholas@aloha.net) VHS 2. Jim Lessner (jtlessner@hotmail.com) VHS 3. Susan Vammen-Stitt (srvammen@hotmail.com) VHS 4. Ira Tobert (hejira924@aol.com) VHS 5. Drew Parsons (DrewAParsons@aol.com) VHS 6. Mike Brooker (BlackBook78@aol.com) VHS 7. Craig R. Smith (gurudjsmithmix@aol.com) VHS 8. Amy Hart (clancyhart@aol.com) VHS ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 21 Nov 2000 09:37:26 -0800 From: RAVEN@igc.org Subject: Re: Gross out on TV, Saturday Night Live, NJC At 12:15 11/19/2000, Jim L'Hommedieu wrote: >Did anyone see the cartoon feature on Saturday Night Live called "Sex >In the Country" last night? It was a take off on "Sex In the City" >but amazingly, featured a cartoon man having sex with farm animals, >with dialog, over and over and over. In one scene, he and a farm >animal were in a sex swing. In another scene, he's zipping up his >pants. I'm sorry to sound puritanical but, to me, it was just TOO >much information and decidedly not funny. I'm a little curious... if it grossed you out so much, why did you stay with it until the last disgusting scene? :) And does this mean you're going to turn off your TV again, and miss the daily re-runs of your favorite TV series, "Northern Exposure"? John - gazing at the Joni portrait I just bought from Henry Diltz - -- RAVEN ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 21 Nov 2000 11:49:47 EST From: AsharaJM@aol.com Subject: Fwd: VideoTree #2 & The TapeTree Faq Return-Path: Received: from rly-zd02.mx.aol.com (rly-zd02.mail.aol.com [172.31.33.226]) by air-zd05.mail.aol.com (v77.14) with ESMTP; Mon, 20 Nov 2000 22:53:46 -0500 Received: from mail.tco.com (mail.tco.com [165.254.158.13]) by rly-zd02.mx.aol.com (v76_r1.19) with ESMTP; Mon, 20 Nov 2000 22:53:03 -0500 Received: from [165.254.158.133] (165.254.158.133) by mail.tco.com with ESMTP (Eudora Internet Mail Server 3.0.1); Mon, 20 Nov 2000 22:52:57 -0500 X-Sender: simon%icu.com@mail.tco.com Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <67.bf0bf43.274996f6@aol.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Mon, 20 Nov 2000 22:52:14 -0800 To: From: simon@icu.com Subject: VideoTree #2 & The TapeTree Faq Cc: AsharaJM@aol.com X-Mailer: Unknown yesterday evening i rec'd an eMail message from Ashara and a request for TapeTree information. with her permission, i'm including both her message and the FAQ. although this particular offering is a VideoTree, the FAQs, structure and selection/distribution methods remain the same. >_____________________________________________________________________ >Hi there, simon. Do you have a how-to already written up as to how a >TapeTree works that I can use with the tree structure? (What to do if >you are a Branch/Leaf. There are several people that are new to this >tree thing. I'd like to get this out first thing Tuesday morning, as >I am leaving for NYC on Wednesday. Thanks in advance. > >Hugs, >Ashara >_____________________________________________________________________ For the benefit of our new members, the TapeTree FAQ. TapeTree 101 Thanks to Randy Schechter and David Lybrand from the Neil Young List for the text of this document. MOTIVATION A little propaganda as to the motivation for running trees ... First and foremost it is to share with others quality Joni Mitchell music that others have been lucky enough to obtain. Trees also serve the purpose of helping new tape collectors to get their collections going. People who are new to tape collecting (or to Joni Mitchell's music) are welcome and encouraged to sign up for the tape trees. Another motivation for running trees is to try to discourage people from feeling the need to partake of the large commerical bootleg market out there. Commercial bootleg producers are largely seen to be disrespectful of an artist's rights by cashing in on the artist's music without any consideration for the artist. ______________________________________________________________________ The TREE SEED The first step in the Tree process is finding the seed tape. A seed tape is the tape that will ultimately be used to make everyone's copy. These days recording equipment has gotten so small that almost every show gets taped one way or another. So it's important to seek out a tape worthy to seed the tree. The qualities that are important for a seed tape is that the sound quality be very good to excellent - or that the tape be of a critical event - regardless of quality. The sound quality for tapes degrades with each generation as hiss is introduced in the copying process (This is only true for analog tapes - DAT tapes do not suffer from that kind of degradation). So if we start off with a poor sounding seed tape, the leaf tapes (see below) will be unlistenable. Basically, the standards one uses to decide if a seed tape is "tree worthy" are subjective. They might therefore be lower if the seed is from an older show, or a show where no other copy exists - especially if the particular show includes a "rarity" of some kind. ______________________________________________________________________ BRANCHES and LEAVES Once the seed is in hand, the next step is to select the branch leaders. The branch leaders are the folks who volunteer to spin 3 or 4 (up to 10!) copies of the show for the "Leaves", as in this inverted tree structure: Seed Tape | +----------+------------+----------+----------+ | | | | | Branch Branch Branch Branch Branch | | | | | | | +---------+----------+ | | | Leaf Leaf Leaf ______________________________________________________________________ BRANCH SELECTION It would be nice if a tree only required the Tree Administator to make branch copies and the branch leaders make the leaf copies. However in practice there's more to it, since the tree administrator has to select the branch leaders. The criteria for branch leader selection is most heavily dependent on the quality of the dubbing equipment. In the best of worlds, all branch leaders would have two top of the line single decks (as opposed to dubbing decks) with 3 heads in the tape transports. This would ensure the best copies for everyone. In practice this is not likely, since most of us are not wealthy. Thus the tree administrator tries to ensure that the branch leaders have at least fairly good recording equipment. Another factor for branch leader selection that sometimes is used is to consider the track record of the branch volunteer in previous trees/trades. Ideally, again, we choose people who take the responsibility of being a branch leader seriously over those who have repeatedly caused delays. There are two ways the a tree gets going: The first is to find the seed, spin the branch tapes, open up the tree to everyone for sign-up, and THEN select the branch leaders from the general sign-up population. Another method is to have a separate call for branch leader volunteers BEFORE the tree is opened up for leaf sign-up. This makes the administration a bit easier, and in some cases gives the branch leaders a little breathing room because they can get their copies before the full tree structure gets posted. ______________________________________________________________________ DISTRIBUTING BRANCH TAPES Once the branch leaders are chosen, the Tree Administator makes arrangements to send the branch tapes to the branch leaders. This can be accomplished by either arranging a tape trade for the branch tapes, sending blanks plus return postage, or in some cases sending cash ONLY for the price of the blank tapes and postage. The practice of sending "double blanks" for TreeTapes is Not Allowed! If you are asked to 'PAY' in any way for the music - please blow the whistle on the culprit. You should be willing to make your fellow Joni fans a copy of the show for just the blanks it would take to make the copy, plus return postage. Not everyone agrees with this practice but it will be true for all Trees "sanctioned" by the Joni list. ______________________________________________________________________ GATHERING LEAVES Now that the branch leaders have their tapes, the next step is to open the tree for general sign-up. Trees are run in a spirit of international cooperation, so it may be necessary to have branches in Canada, Europe, Australia and elsewhere. The branch leaders from each nation take care of the leaves from their particular regions, where possible, to simplify mailing and currency transactions (where necessary). However sometimes there will be a fan from another nation on a branch. The tree administrator should get the okay from the branch leader before assigning such leaves to them, though. The tree is generally open for sign-up for 2-4 weeks. After the sign-up is closed, the tree structure is designed and then posted to the list. ______________________________________________________________________ The BRANCH - LEAF Connection Note: Leaves are responsible for contacting their Branch to make arrangements for obtaining their tapes! If you, the leaf, have something to trade for your tape(s) then by all means set up a trade. If you have nothing to trade, just send blanks and return postage. After all, one of the motives for running trees is to help beginners get started. Note that it's not cool to trade for blanks just to save yourself some trouble. If you've got trade material, take the effort to make a trade with the branch leader - after all, that branch leader's got a lot more work to do than you do, so help to make him or her happy (so that they will do it again and again and keep the trees going!) Branch leaders and leaves should arrange recording criteria (i.e. Dolby) amongst themselves. Sometimes the tree administrator will arrange to have certain branches that are "Dolby only" or "No-Dolby only". But generally the Branch leader gets a Dolby-B tape unless special arrangements are made. ______________________________________________________________________ DISTRIBUTING LEAF TAPES If you have set up a trade with your branch leader, this part is easy. Just mail your trade tape to the branch leader and then they will mail you the Tree tape. If you are trading for blanks, send the blank tapes in a padded envelope (suitable for sending your tape back to you) and enough postage to cover the cost of mailing the tape back to you. That's generally about $1.00-$1.25, for a single tape (in the US). Please include your name, address, and email address with any blank tape you send, along with a note specifying what tree the blank tape is for. Since tree administrators and branch leaders have several trees/trades going on at once, this is very important! ______________________________________________________________________ PET PEEVES * Branches who don't take their responsibilities seriously. Don't volunteer to be a Branch if you're not going to have the time to make the copies you VOLUNTEERED for. * Leaves that disappear. Please don't sign up for the tree if you're not serious about wanting a copy. Sure, legitimate reasons arise that can cause you to be unable to fulfill your committments. If this is the case, you should contact the involved parties to alert them. * Lack of feedback from Leaves. If you have trouble arranging to get your tapes from your Branch, or if you think your copy sounds like crap, please inform the Tree Administrator. On the other hand, please make a good faith effort to resolve your difficulties with your Branch. * Lack of Return Postage when trading blanks. Lots of folks forget this! ______________________________________________________________________ CAVEATS * If you know you are going to be away in the next few weeks after tree sign-up, (e.g., for Spring Break, vacation, etc.) please let your Branch (or your leaves, if YOU are a branch leader) know. If necessary, let the Tree Administrator know. Inevitably some people just up and disappear after they sign up for a tree. * Important! Leaves are responsible for contacting their Branch <<< to arrange to get their tapes! <<< ______________________________________________________________________ End of FAQ. One Final Point Leaves, Please Note Re: Blanks 'n Postage Although it may be easier for YOU to send your Branch a money order to cover the *costs* of your copies, it is *not* necessarily easiest for your Branch. Remember this means the Branch has to buy tapes, mailer, address a package, and take it to the post office. All this is in addition dubbing up to 5-Sets of Tapes. The fairest method is for YOU to purchase your own tapes. Enclose your tapes in a padded envelope. This envelope should be *self-addressed* *with* postage. This self-addressed, padded envelope w/Your tapes can then be placed in a slighly larger envelope and mailed off to your Branch, who can now just drop your package in a mailbox once your copies are dubbed. Clean and Simple. In the end though, work it out with your Branch. There are some really nice folks here on the JMDL and they will be happy to work with you and ensure that you receive your copies as quickly as possible. That's about all for now folks. I DO hope that everyone enjoys this group of recordings. I'm sure you will. There's some truly wonderful music included this time. - ------- simon - ------- * Remember, if you don't stand for something ... you'll go for anything. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 21 Nov 2000 13:01:24 EST From: Murphycopy@aol.com Subject: Re: NJC: street names Brooklyn Roads (N. Diamond) Primrose Lane (J. Wallace) Country Road (J. Denver) Electric Avenue (Eddie Grant) Moon Over Bourbon Street (Sting) Down on Main Street (B. Segar) Life in the Fast Lane (Eagles) Gulf Coast Highway (D. Matthews) Route 2 (D. Matthews) Highway 61 (B. Dylan) Dirty Boulevard (L. Reed) Yellow Brick Road (E. John) ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 21 Nov 2000 18:12:33 +0000 From: catman Subject: Re: PC men/women NJC Peg-the list was sent to me. i found it amusing and passed it on. Others found it amusing too. You didn't. This proves that we all differ in our appreciation of humour. bw colin ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 21 Nov 2000 13:14:01 EST From: FMYFL@aol.com Subject: Re: MAD Magazine - (SJC) Reading some of the comments on Mad Magazine made me think of when I was in junior high. I used to love listening to "The National Lampoon Radio Hour". They once did a parody of Joni called "You Put Me Thru Hell". I did a search at firstlook.com and they did have a sample of the song. http://www.firstlook.com/preview/mediaurl (type in Joni's name in the search field) I didn't remember the parody, but it's some guy playing guitar and singing words like: " I'm gonna tell everybody That your jockey shorts are red That you really like instant coffee And you still wet the bed............" Oh well, National Lampoon Radio Hour sure was funny (back in Junior High) :~) Jimmy ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 21 Nov 2000 13:12:31 EST From: Siresorrow@aol.com Subject: Re: Not so PC books - NJC In a message dated 11/20/00 9:59:05 PM Eastern Standard Time, hell@ihug.co.nz writes: << I'll get the ball rolling by admitting that I still love reading C.S. Lewis' The Chronicles Of Narnia, even though they're classed as childrens books. >> i know a lot of adults who read the chronicles. it's an anglican thing. they all love it. now i like books on spirituality too. but i also like books about the mafia. i read one once by this cop from nyc who helped turn a series of turncoats. one character in the book, a true story, was called johnny fingers. because when he wacked somebody, he liked to cut off their fingers and take them home in a plastic baggie and freeze them. then he'd cut up and dispose of the rest of the body. and the cops would assume the guy was dead if they had no contact with him after a few months. after all, mafia people disappeared all the time. but johnny fingers would trick the cops. months later, when he did another hit, he'd take a bag of prevously frozen fingers with him and put finger prints of the last dead man around the crime scene of the new dead man and that would totally stump the cops since they had counted the older guy dead for months only to find his finger prints very much a part of a new crime. so i liked that story and i'm not sure why. as for the playboy, well....i've always felt that a picture was worth a thousand words. patrick np. jonatha brooke nt. (now thinking)- that thread on the grey hairs went really nasty. ne. red licorice and pepsi one. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 21 Nov 2000 13:46:52 EST From: FredNow@aol.com Subject: Re: fred simon and mc lea NJC In a message dated 11/20/00 10:52:09 PM, wallykai@fibertel.com.ar writes: >but fred!!!! you never disclosed your birthday! i know only that you're >a double scorpio. You see, Wally, I so firmly believed in your psychic abilities that I just assumed you would know my birthdate! But seriously, it's entirely my fault ... I really thought I had included the date, Hollywood-style (birthdate only, no year), but I didn't. I'm sorry, and embarrassed, for whining. Thanks so much, though, to all who responded so kindly and heartily to my whining: Wally, Ashara, Kakki, Jimmy, Rose (and anyone else I may have inadvertently left out). I truly deserve the "Mingus" birthday song: "Happy birthday, motherf***er ... " - -Fred ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 21 Nov 2000 11:10:11 -0800 From: Scott Price Subject: Re: Here is a great offer NJC At 09:26 PM 11/19/00 -0800, Michael Paz wrote: >Here is a great offer for all you CD burners and sluts out there >Buy.com is selling a spindle of 100 of the TDK Certified discs These discs are not made by TDK. Unless they are labeled "Certified Plus" they are most likely manufactured in Taiwan by Ritek. TDK claims that these discs are made to their specifications but I'd be extremely hesitant to use them for anything of importance. "Let the burner beware." Scott ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 21 Nov 2000 14:50:00 -0500 From: "Peg Eves" Subject: RE: PC men/women NJC Colin. Thanks you so much for letting me express that without jumping all over me. I really appreciate that. Peg > -----Original Message----- > From: catman [mailto:colin@tantra.fsbusiness.co.uk] > Sent: Tuesday, November 21, 2000 1:13 PM > To: Peg Eves > Cc: joni@smoe.org > Subject: Re: PC men/women NJC > > > Peg-the list was sent to me. i found it amusing and passed it on. > Others found it amusing > too. You didn't. This proves that we all differ in our > appreciation of humour. > bw > colin ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 21 Nov 2000 16:00:29 EST From: Fonimitchell@aol.com Subject: Songs with street names (NJC) Blackberry Way The Move Huckleberry Grove Ocean Colour Scene (A-Bomb in) Wardour Street The Jam Alison Road Gin Blossoms Penny Lane The Beatles Strawberry Fields The Beatles ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 21 Nov 2000 14:13:24 -0800 From: susan+rick Subject: Re: Songs with street names (NJC) Accidently Kelly Street--Frente 59th Street Bridge Song--Simon and Garfunkel Desolation Row--Bob Dylan Hwy 61 Revisited--BD Positively 4th Street--BD Green Flower Street--Donald Fagen ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 21 Nov 2000 17:16:43 -0500 From: "Diane Evans" Subject: Re: birthdays NJC Fred, Heavens to great aunt Betsy's blistered bald spot! Forget you? No way! Happy f*cking birthday to you and Joe! Best wishes, Diane _____________________________________________________________________________________ Get more from the Web. FREE MSN Explorer download : http://explorer.msn.com ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 21 Nov 2000 18:20:34 EST From: MGVal@aol.com Subject: Re: Trashy reads (NJC) In a message dated 11/21/00 8:10:35 AM Pacific Standard Time, steve@psitech.com writes: << >So how many of you DON'T read Playboy for the articles? There are *articles* in Playboy???? -- >> Gosh, I read it all the time for their editorials. MG ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 21 Nov 2000 16:01:16 -0800 (PST) From: Jane Subject: NJC: songs w/ street names Anne- I'm on digest so these may have already been mentioned... The Long and Winding Road (Beatles) Allison Road (Gin Blossoms) Tenth Avenue Freezeout (Springsteen) Cyprus Avenue (Van Morrison) A1A (Jimmy Buffet - album title) Ventura Highway (America) Wall Street Rag (Scott Joplin) Jane Yahoo! Shopping - Thousands of Stores. Millions of Products. http://shopping.yahoo.com/ ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 21 Nov 2000 23:39:02 -0000 From: "Chris Marshall" Subject: RE: Offnight BackstreetNJC Colin said about going grey:- > It gets worse! Found any in your pubes yet? > I have been going grey since my 20's, mostly the sides. I've found a few grey chest hairs. That was scary. Anyway, I started to tint (not dye!) the stuff up top, but once the rest starts to go seriously, I dunno what I'll do. Anyway, I think nature's way to help us cope with it going grey is just to have it drop out. Voila, pas de problem. - --Chris ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 21 Nov 2000 23:48:22 +0000 From: Jason Maloney Subject: Re: Offnight BackstreetNJC I'd take going grey over losing hair, I really would. I'm convinced I'm beginning to thin out on top...I keep checking, trying to see if I *actually* am or not. I'm still not sure. It seemed to start on the week of my 29th Birthday, but it could just be my paranoia. I had hopes of a silvery look into my late-30s or early-40s. Jason. Chris Marshall wrote: > > Colin said about going grey:- > > It gets worse! Found any in your pubes yet? > > I have been going grey since my 20's, mostly the sides. > > I've found a few grey chest hairs. That was scary. > > Anyway, I started to tint (not dye!) the stuff up top, > but once the rest starts to go seriously, I dunno what > I'll do. > > Anyway, I think nature's way to help us cope with it > going grey is just to have it drop out. Voila, pas > de problem. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 21 Nov 2000 19:31:45 EST From: AzeemAK@aol.com Subject: Street Names Gibsom Street New York Tendaberry Mercy on Broadway (All Laura Nyro, RIP) ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 22 Nov 2000 01:42:50 +0000 From: catman Subject: Re: Offnight BackstreetNJC > I've found a few grey chest hairs. That was scary. > > Anyway, I started to tint (not dye!) the stuff up top, > but once the rest starts to go seriously, I dunno what > I'll do. when my hair was long and I had only a few, I did the same. then it got to the point there were too many. Nothing looks worse than a man with roots so i shaved it all off. As you know I keep the sides shaved back to the skin. > > > Anyway, I think nature's way to help us cope with it > going grey is just to have it drop out. Voila, pas > de problem. Not necessarily! Many an old white haired man has all his hair! > > > --Chris - -- bw colin colin@tantra.fsbusiness.co.uk http://www.geocities.com/tantra_apso/index.html ------------------------------ End of JMDL Digest V2000 #618 ***************************** ------- Post messages to the list by clicking here: mailto:joni@smoe.org Unsubscribe by clicking here: mailto:joni-digest-request@smoe.org?body=unsubscribe ------- Siquomb, isn't she?