From: les@jmdl.com (JMDL Digest) To: joni-digest@smoe.org Subject: JMDL Digest V2000 #615 Reply-To: joni@smoe.org Sender: les@jmdl.com Errors-To: les@jmdl.com Precedence: bulk VideoTree sign-up: http://www.jmdl.com/trading Unsubscribe: mailto:joni-digest-request@smoe.org?body=unsubscribe Archives: http://www.smoe.org/lists/joni Websites: http://www.jmdl.com http://www.jonimitchell.com JMDL Digest Monday, November 20 2000 Volume 2000 : Number 615 The 'Official' Joni Mitchell Homepage, created by Wally Breese, can be found at http://www.jonimitchell.com. It contains the latest news, a detailed bio, Original Interviews, essays, lyrics and much much more. The JMDL website can be found at http://www.jmdl.com and contains interviews, articles, the member gallery, archives, and much more. Sign up for VideoTree #2 now: http://www.jmdl.com/trading ========== TOPICS and authors in this Digest: -------- Re: books NJC [Joseph Palis ] Re: Joni's Loves and Music ["Kakki" ] Re: Joni's Loves and Music [SCJoniGuy@aol.com] RE: Joni's Loves and Music ["Wally Kairuz" ] Videos ["Sue Cameron" ] books-rushdie NJC [BarBearUh ] The Lesbian and Gay Review [James Leahy ] electric shock NJC [catman ] Re: Joni's Loves and Music (md) [MDESTE1@aol.com] Something to ponder .......njc [Brian Gross ] Re: Joni's Loves and Music (md) [IVPAUL42@aol.com] Cat Euthanasia [NJC] [Richard Goldman ] Joni's Love Affairs and Her Music [RoseMJoy@aol.com] RE: What do you like to read (NJC) - more on robertson davies ["patrick l] Gross out on TV, Saturday Night Live, NJC ["Jim L'Hommedieu" ] Re: What do you like to read (NJC) [dsk ] Re: Joni's Loves and Music [Emily Kirk Gray ] joe farrell NJC ["Wally Kairuz" ] ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Sun, 19 Nov 2000 16:13:39 +0800 (PHT) From: Joseph Palis Subject: Re: books NJC I like the elegant prose of James Hilton. I practically read all his books and his way with language evokes placid moments at a lake. I recommend his NOTHING SO STRANGE and GOODBYE, MR. CHIPS to anyone. His LOST HORIZON is more famous and gave the world the word "Shangri-La". I also like the minimalism of Susan Minot whose books (notably MONKEYS, LUST AND OTHER STORIES) make one remember seaside resorts and the discomfort of being in such a picnic where people's barely-healed wounds are opened unpleasantly. Makes me remember Sue Miller's books. Marilynne Robinson's HOUSEKEEPING is one of the rarest of books in that the use and perfection of language is such that you have to read her sentences slowly and ever so slowly. Even Doris Lessing said so, too. Joseph (reading Carson McCullers's REFLECTIONS IN A GOLDEN EYE) ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 19 Nov 2000 00:48:59 -0800 From: "Kakki" Subject: Re: Joni's Loves and Music Paul wrote: > I think the objection, at least mine, is the implication that >the other connections between musicians is musical, while >hers were sexual, or that she used her feminine wiles to get >where she was, rather than her artistic talent. I wish I had a scanner so I could put it up somewhere, but I'm always the last to get higher-tech ;-) Actually there are several other people who are linked romantically, so she is not being singled out in the chart, other than to have a big kiss surrounding her name. There are several heart symbols, some broken (to indicate the obvious) and some intact to indicate the relationships that endured. Rita Coolidge is linked to more broken hearts than Joni, for example. (And one of Rita's broken hearts also link to Graham Nash). However, you are correct in that most of the lines connect to musical alliances, and she is not credited with any musical alliances - only romantic. Although at that time in 1972 (before Tom Scott, before Mingus, etc.), she had not really aligned musically with other groups - she was more of the lone artist at that point. To answer Scott's question, the "Old Lady of The Year" caption came from a different short blurb in RS. I recall Steve Dulson posted that one and it was from another year. Kakki ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 19 Nov 2000 08:02:36 EST From: SCJoniGuy@aol.com Subject: Re: Joni's Loves and Music << To answer Scott's question, the "Old Lady of The Year" caption came from a different short blurb in RS. I recall Steve Dulson posted that one and it was from another year. >> Plus, RS called her the "Quenn of El-Lay" in another piece, right? That was probably the last straw for her. Bob NP: "Cotton Avenue", Milan, Italy '83 ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 19 Nov 2000 10:31:05 -0300 From: "Wally Kairuz" Subject: RE: Joni's Loves and Music i think that that was the village voice guy in his *********review********* of hejira. wallyK - -----Mensaje original----- De: owner-joni@jmdl.com [mailto:owner-joni@jmdl.com]En nombre de SCJoniGuy@aol.com Enviado el: Domingo, 19 de Noviembre de 2000 10:03 a.m. Para: KakkiB@worldnet.att.net; IVPAUL42@aol.com; joni@smoe.org CC: sp@olympus.net Asunto: Re: Joni's Loves and Music << To answer Scott's question, the "Old Lady of The Year" caption came from a different short blurb in RS. I recall Steve Dulson posted that one and it was from another year. >> Plus, RS called her the "Quenn of El-Lay" in another piece, right? That was probably the last straw for her. Bob NP: "Cotton Avenue", Milan, Italy '83 ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 19 Nov 2000 08:39:03 -0500 From: "Sue Cameron" Subject: Videos Ashara, The tapes are wonderful. Those of you sitting on the fence, jump off! Tape #1 I really enjoyed the Mendel tour, felt like I was right there. This is a great gift that you shared with the list, Ashara. I know that it's not the same viewing the moment through the lens, that makes this even more special, knowing that you willingly sacrificed your birds eye view to let us in. The trip with the woman in Maidstone was like something out of Letterman. Hi, you have a tribute to Joni here? Great! While your at it would you mind driving us around town so we can film more? :-D Tape #2 Much Music was intense. They had several shots of audience memebers shedding quiet tears of joy. Special guests in the crowd make it fun too. The best moment for me was hearing 'Cherokee Louise' during which my eyes might have been perspiring... Sue Cameron np: big snow plows going by as we got a foot of lake effect last night. npimh: sound of phone ringing tomorrow morning saying we have a snowday! ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 19 Nov 2000 08:37:19 -0500 From: BarBearUh Subject: books-rushdie NJC Azeem wrote: "Salman Rushdie's The Ground Beneath Her Feet was pretty good, although in a different way." i read this as well. i can't say i liked it very much, though i liked the way he wrote. that is to say, i thought the story was weak but his prose wasn't. can anyone recommend another book by him? barbara np: youssou n'dour, the lion ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 19 Nov 2000 09:28:28 -0500 From: James Leahy Subject: The Lesbian and Gay Review The Lesbian and Gay Review (or was it Gay and Lesbian? It used to be called the Harvard Review) has a review of Joni's May concert in Connecticut, told from the point of view of a 'fallen' Joni fan and his companion, a true devotee. It's a nice read, with a few thoughts on Joni's diva-ness. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 19 Nov 2000 14:50:34 +0000 From: catman Subject: electric shock NJC some wag wrote in response to my question: It must have been Dog's Will !!!!!!! - -- bw colin colin@tantra.fsbusiness.co.uk http://www.geocities.com/tantra_apso/index.html ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 19 Nov 2000 11:16:09 EST From: MDESTE1@aol.com Subject: Re: Joni's Loves and Music (md) In a message dated 11/18/00 11:40:14 PM Pacific Standard Time, IVPAUL42@aol.com writes: << I think the objection, at least mine, is the implication that the other connections between musicians is musical, while hers were sexual, or that she used her feminine wiles to get where she was, rather than her artistic talent. Paul I >> At least we know where Paul IV's head is at. It certainly wasnt where mine was when I wrote it as the background piece clearly stated. But I guess you see what you want. marcel deste ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 19 Nov 2000 08:24:53 -0800 (PST) From: Brian Gross Subject: Something to ponder .......njc > > The following is something to ponder.............. > > > > If you woke up this morning with more health than > > illness...you are more > > blessed than the > > million who will not survive this week. > > > > If you have never experienced the danger of battle, > > the loneliness of > > imprisonment, the agony of torture, or the pangs > > of starvation ...you are > > ahead of 500 million people in the world. > > > > If you can attend a church meeting without fear of > > harassment, arrest, > > torture, or > > death...you are more blessed than three billion > > people in the world. > > > > If you have food in the refrigerator, clothes on > > your back, a roof > > overhead > > and a place to sleep...you are richer than 75% of > > this world. > > > > If you have money in the bank, in your wallet, and > > spare change in a dish > > someplace...you are among the top 8% of the > > world's wealthy. > > > > If your parents are still alive and still > > married...you are very rare, even > > in the > > United States and Canada. > > > > If you hold up your head with a smile on your face > > and are truly > > thankful...you are blessed because the majority can, > > but most do not. > > > > If you can hold someone's hand, hug them or even > > touch them on the > > shoulder...you are > > blessed because you can offer healing touch. > > > > If you can read this message, you just received a > > double blessing in that > > someone was > > thinking of you, and furthermore, you are more > > blessed than over two > > billion people in the world that cannot read at > > all. > > > > Have a good day, count your blessings, and pass this > > along to remind > > everyone else how blessed we all are. Brian and Mags among the blessed ===== "No paper thin walls, no folks above No one else can hear the crazy cries of love" yeah, right Yahoo! Calendar - Get organized for the holidays! http://calendar.yahoo.com/ ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 19 Nov 2000 11:30:45 EST From: IVPAUL42@aol.com Subject: Re: Joni's Loves and Music (md) In a message dated 11/19/00 11:28:04 AM Eastern Standard Time, MDESTE1@aol.com writes: << In a message dated 11/18/00 11:40:14 PM Pacific Standard Time, IVPAUL42@aol.com writes: << I think the objection, at least mine, is the implication that the other connections between musicians is musical, while hers were sexual, or that she used her feminine wiles to get where she was, rather than her artistic talent. Paul I >> At least we know where Paul IV's head is at. It certainly wasnt where mine was when I wrote it as the background piece clearly stated. But I guess you see what you want. marcel deste >> I was talking about the Rolling Stone article, not your silly little list. Paul ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 19 Nov 2000 09:08:20 -0800 From: Richard Goldman Subject: Cat Euthanasia [NJC] My friends' cat is dying. She has colon cancer, and is starting to slip into a coma slowly, not taking food, nor water for a couple of days now. They don't want a Vet to come in and put her down 'instantly' but would rather let nature takes its course slowly/naturally. But they also do not want her to suffer. She is apparently not suffering now. They have 2mg Valium tabs that they started giving her last night, one actually, that made her very relaxed. They have more. Anyone know: how many mgs. of Valium a cat can take? and how much would it take to OD her? Is there a better/gentler way? like . . . do cats respond to morphine? Has anyone had any personal experience with this? My friends really do not just want a Vet to come in an 'stop her heart'. And fortunatly the cat is not in major suffering mode. Not yet anyway. Just labored breathing, and extreme lethargy, and non-eating/drinking, and barely moving, and also: not very responsive to external pain (like if you squeeze her paw HARD she doesn't notice or flinch). Please email me privately if you have any suggestions. Thanks, Richard Goldman richard2sf@earthlink.net ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 19 Nov 2000 13:02:12 EST From: RoseMJoy@aol.com Subject: Joni's Love Affairs and Her Music It was a long time before joining this list and stumbling upon Wally's site that I had little insight into Joni's lyrics. Sometimes I guess I would relate them to my own life's experiences. She captured me, I listened and my heart opened up to her. I gained a great deal of insight/knowledge here about this singer/songwriter's personal experiences (her joys and her sorrows) For instance I never knew that "Little Green" was written about her baby girl that she gave up for adoption or her fight with polio at the age of nine. I think that most of Joni's songs are about her own life. I've been reading Hinton's book. I'm not nearly finished, however so far I don't think it's too bad. In there she is quoted by Zigzag as saying "my songs are very honest, they are extremely personal. Sometimes they really hurt to sing." I think we'll all agree, Joni stands there naked before us. According to Hinton she told Phil Sutclife, her love affairs centred around the musical community and that they usually began as friendships. If Joni's musical career advanced as a result of these professional or personal involvement, I don't see anything wrong with that! Joni was destined for greatness no matter what. - -Rose in NJ ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 19 Nov 2000 13:51:01 -0500 From: "patrick leader" Subject: RE: What do you like to read (NJC) - more on robertson davies On Sat, 18 Nov 2000 Dflahm@aol.com wrote: > My favorite Robertson Davies novel is not part of any trilogy. It's about > musicians and is called A MIXTURE of FRAILTIES. I have enjoyed several of his > works over the last 25 years. > David Lahm > i had to check this with my sister, as my books are packed away and i was too lazy to research it on line. A MIXTURE OF FRAILTIES actually is part of a trilogy, the salterton trilogy, and it's the third one. his novels always do stand alone beautifully, but i really like all three of the trilogies as trilogies. the salterton trilogy starts with 'tempest tost', about a amateur production of the tempest. mentioned that earlier. the second book is called 'a leaven of malice', about a fraudulent marriage announcement that is planted in a local newspaper, and all the grief that the editor suffers as a result. davies was a editor of a small-town newspaper in northern ontario, at one point, and he draws on that experience. 'a mixture of frailties' is, as david said, about musicians. specifically, it's about a local canadian girl who receives a generous amount of money to go study voice in europe, and about her personal and musical growth their. it's funny and sad, and at the end when davies writes about her triumphant return recital in salterton, it's as moving a piece about music (and humanity) as i've ever read. david, if you feel a particular affinity for davies' writing about musicians, read 'the lyre of orpheus', about a canadian college's attempt to stage an unproduced offenbach opera. the dead spirit of offenbach is a character, watching with fear, derision and finally a cautious hope as his piece finally sees life. however, 'the lyre of orpheus' is also the third of a trilogy (the 'cornish') and if you want to read all of that set, you'll have to slog (kidding!) through 'what's bred in the bone', one of the best novels i've ever read about painting. lucky you. barbara wrote: >i went from "widow" to that book. then read "cider house rules", which made me want to read "david copperfield". i can really see how influenced by dickens irving is. irving is also, i think, very influenced by davies, and in fact he paid homage to him in 'owen meany' when the narrator taught davies to canadian high-schoolers. by the way, i haven't read irving's new 'widow', but i place 'owen meany' very high in my list of books. not quite as high as 'hotel new hampshire'. unlike barbara and a lot of other listers, i reread a lot a lot a lot. i often finish books and go back and reread chapters that were particularly gorgeous. but 'hotel new hampshire' is the only book i've ever finished, turned back to page 1, and read again. just a fantastic book. patrick, book freak np - rickie lee jones in montreaux, 1982. fantastic!! ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 19 Nov 2000 15:15:58 -0500 From: "Jim L'Hommedieu" Subject: Gross out on TV, Saturday Night Live, NJC I turned my tv off years ago. When I moved into a new apartment, I decided to give it a try again. On the positive side, I've enjoyed "West Wing" (especially CJ) and "Ed", both on NBC. Recently, though the gross out factor has set in. Last night, I saw a commercial on the Fox network where Jamie Fox asked a woman friend, "Do I make you horny, baby?" Now, I expect to hear that when I go to see a Michael Meyers comedy movie but that isn't what I want to see in my living room. Did anyone see the cartoon feature on Saturday Night Live called "Sex In the Country" last night? It was a take off on "Sex In the City" but amazingly, featured a cartoon man having sex with farm animals, with dialog, over and over and over. In one scene, he and a farm animal were in a sex swing. In another scene, he's zipping up his pants. I'm sorry to sound puritanical but, to me, it was just TOO much information and decidedly not funny. Lama ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 19 Nov 2000 23:02:21 +0000 From: catman Subject: Re: Something to ponder .......njc Too true. It is important dwell on the waht we have rather than what we have not. We all have loads to be grateful for, even when we feel like shit! ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 19 Nov 2000 23:09:31 +0000 From: catman Subject: Re: Cat Euthanasia [NJC] I have kept dogs and cats for 30 years as well as having worked at vets. I am sorry to say that this cat is suffering and it would have been far kinder to have had the vet put her out of her misery a while ago. Cats are NOT like people and do not give obvious signs of pain. Many purr when in severe pain. The fact she did not respond when her paw was squeezed hard is NOT an idication that she is not in pain. In situations like this the cat's welfare should be put first not the desire of the owner. I have had the misfirune of having to deal with a cat that was in the end stage of cancer because the owner wanted a natural death. Valium will not do it. I wrote this reply to the list as well in the hope that others will not be tempeted to allow an animal to suffer like this. Richard Goldman wrote: > My friends' cat is dying. She has colon cancer, and is starting to slip > into a coma slowly, not taking food, nor water for a couple of days now. > They don't want a Vet to come in and put her down 'instantly' but would > rather let nature takes its course slowly/naturally. But they also do not > want her to suffer. She is apparently not suffering now. > They have 2mg Valium tabs that they started giving her last night, one > actually, that made her very relaxed. They have more. > Anyone know: > how many mgs. of Valium a cat can take? and how much would it take to > OD her? > Is there a better/gentler way? like . . . do cats respond to morphine? > Has anyone had any personal experience with this? > My friends really do not just want a Vet to come in an 'stop her heart'. > And fortunatly the cat is not in major suffering mode. Not yet anyway. > Just labored breathing, and extreme lethargy, and non-eating/drinking, and > barely moving, and also: not very responsive to external pain (like if you > squeeze her paw HARD she doesn't notice or flinch). > > Please email me privately if you have any suggestions. > Thanks, > Richard Goldman > richard2sf@earthlink.net - -- bw colin colin@tantra.fsbusiness.co.uk http://www.geocities.com/tantra_apso/index.html ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 19 Nov 2000 18:54:45 -0500 From: dsk Subject: Re: What do you like to read (NJC) patrick leader wrote: > .....'what's bred in the bone', one of the best > novels i've ever read about painting. and "Gerald Notaro (LIB)" wrote: So glad to see one of my favorite authors talked about. My favorite of his is What is Bred in the Bone. Well, I can't wait now to give Robertson Davies a try. The colorful covers of his paperbacks have caught my eye many times, but always when I already had a pile of books in my hand to pay for, so I never got one. But now that I've heard all about him by several people I'm very curious..... what a great list, this Joni list. My thanks to everyone for giving all this great book advice. (I do hope I'm remembering his books correctly; it may be another author, but even if the covers of Davies' books are the dullest ever designed, I'll try his writing anyway.) For years, when I was younger and much more serious, I read only the "classics", usually by culture (love French literature, Les Miserables especially, and all of Balzac and Stendahl, and Latin American literature too, but forced myself through the Russian books; each character having 5 nicknames that sound nothing like the original name got on my nerves; at the end of War and Peace I still had to refer to the list of characters and all their nicknames at the front of the book, sad, I know, but by then I'd gotten the "war is bad" message a million times, and I apparently was never very engaged by the characters, whatever their name is, whoever they were). In the past few years I've read all the books I could find and now wait for the new ones by PD James, Martha Grimes, Elizabeth George (reading her newest one now), and Ruth Rendell (although I like her Barbara Vine ones best), all writing English murder mystery novels with very complex characters and an emphasis on the psychology behind people's actions, and along with that a description of English life that I find fascinating (hanging out in pubs, keeping emotions in, and that class structure thing, and lots of talk too about moors; I don't even know what a moor is really). I love Agatha Christie too and read most of them long ago in high school; she's such a clever writer, cool and surprisingly bloodless considering there's always a dead body at the center of it all. Those are my "comforting" books, and then there are others that I have on the table and read sporadically, and may actually finish before new ones get added to the pile: - --Rumi, "Whispers of the Beloved" (have read this collection of little love poems many times; what a wonderful poet) - --Suzi Gablik, "Conversations about the End of Time: Dialogues on Art, Life and Spiritual Renewal" - --Gary Zukav, "The Seat of the Soul" - --Daniel Boorstin, "The Seekers" - --Julian Bell, "What is Painting?" - --Brian Green, "The Elegant Universe" And for enjoyment and inspiration, some art books are in the pile too. Currently the most thumbed ones are of frescoes by Fra Angelico and paintings and drawings by Gustav Klimt. There's something about the elegance and stillness of the figures and all that gold leaf used by both artists that appeals to me these days, although boldly colorful Matisse is never far away. And Stephen King.... oh, no, he's too scary for me. Debra Shea NP: local TV news, but still all about hanging chads ("well, they're hangin' off the back so OF COURSE some of them are gonna fall off") > barbara wrote: > > >i went from "widow" to that book. then read "cider > house rules", which made me want to read "david copperfield". i can > really see how influenced by dickens irving is. > > irving is also, i think, very influenced by davies, and in fact he paid > homage to him in 'owen meany' when the narrator taught davies to canadian > high-schoolers. by the way, i haven't read irving's new 'widow', but i > place 'owen meany' very high in my list of books. not quite as high as > 'hotel new hampshire'. unlike barbara and a lot of other listers, i reread > a lot a lot a lot. i often finish books and go back and reread chapters > that were particularly gorgeous. but 'hotel new hampshire' is the only book > i've ever finished, turned back to page 1, and read again. just a fantastic > book. > > patrick, book freak > > np - rickie lee jones in montreaux, 1982. fantastic!! ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 19 Nov 2000 21:12:57 -0500 (EST) From: Emily Kirk Gray Subject: Re: Joni's Loves and Music jim wrote: " I prefer to leave it at that- as another useful tool to facilitate pondering her catalog, her prolific nature, and her many musical collaborators. (I wouldn't have the list in my hands when interviewing her though! It might be a little explosive for that.)" hi jim! i liked this; it made sense to me, as did the rest of your intelligent post. marcel and i have also been writing each other off-list about this -- he offered a number of interesting contexts that one could "read" this list in, such as, as you pointed out, the way various other music industry "types" might have influenced joni's music. fine. interesting. and also: something i hadn't thought of before. i'm thinking that maybe my instant, immediate reaction stems more from a personal nature...i guess i really would object to someone laying out my own life or work according (only) to whom i was with at the time. that would make me really sad. but it wouldn't be "wrong" -- just icky, and not something i personally would value. however, i don't want to dismiss ANY "tool" we might use to understand joni's music. so... anyway, i'm still figuring out how i think about this. (i certainly know how i FEEL about it.) hope everyone had good weekends! - --emily ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 20 Nov 2000 00:59:42 -0300 From: "Wally Kairuz" Subject: joe farrell NJC the sun is about to leave scorpio and enter fiery sagittarius. still, just in time to share his sun sign with joni, list member joe farrell is having a birthday! happy birthday, joe!!! the birthday gang says hello and many happy returns!!!!!! wallyK, most excellent birthday fairy and scorpio fan ------------------------------ End of JMDL Digest V2000 #615 ***************************** ------- Post messages to the list by clicking here: mailto:joni@smoe.org Unsubscribe by clicking here: mailto:joni-digest-request@smoe.org?body=unsubscribe ------- Siquomb, isn't she?