From: les@jmdl.com (JMDL Digest) To: joni-digest@smoe.org Subject: JMDL Digest V2000 #614 Reply-To: joni@smoe.org Sender: les@jmdl.com Errors-To: les@jmdl.com Precedence: bulk VideoTree sign-up: http://www.jmdl.com/trading Unsubscribe: mailto:joni-digest-request@smoe.org?body=unsubscribe Archives: http://www.smoe.org/lists/joni Websites: http://www.jmdl.com http://www.jonimitchell.com JMDL Digest Sunday, November 19 2000 Volume 2000 : Number 614 The 'Official' Joni Mitchell Homepage, created by Wally Breese, can be found at http://www.jonimitchell.com. It contains the latest news, a detailed bio, Original Interviews, essays, lyrics and much much more. The JMDL website can be found at http://www.jmdl.com and contains interviews, articles, the member gallery, archives, and much more. Sign up for VideoTree #2 now: http://www.jmdl.com/trading ========== TOPICS and authors in this Digest: -------- Re: What do you like to read (NJC) [Gertus@aol.com] Re: JMDL Digest V2000 #612 [Chorando6@aol.com] Trading Other Artists (NJC) ["Christopher J. Treacy" ] Re: Joni's Loves and Music ["Victor Johnson" ] Re: Books NJC ["Gerald Notaro (LIB)" ] Re: Joni's Loves and Music [SCJoniGuy@aol.com] Sign-ups for VideoTree #2 [AsharaJM@aol.com] Re: Joni's Loves and Music ["Gerald Notaro (LIB)" ] Re: Joni's Loves and Music [IVPAUL42@aol.com] Re: Sign-ups for VideoTree #2 [SCJoniGuy@aol.com] Re: Joni's Loves and Music ["Victor Johnson" ] imagine & another commentary from Nigeria ["Kate Bennett" ] Re: songwriting teams NJC ["Victor Johnson" ] RE: imagine & another commentary from Nigeria ["Chris Marshall" ] Re: NJC Be careful what you wish for! [catman ] Joni's Loves and Music [evian ] Joni covered ["Garret" ] Re: Joni's Loves and Music ["Jim L'Hommedieu" ] Re: Joni's Loves and MusicNJC [Jason Maloney ] The Beatles:Revolution tonight on ABC NJC ["Jim L'Hommedieu" ] Re: Joni covered [SCJoniGuy@aol.com] Re: Joni's Loves and Music [SCJoniGuy@aol.com] What do you like to read? NJC [john low ] RE: What we're reading these days (njc) [john low ] Re: Joni's Loves and Music [MGVal@aol.com] Re: Joni's Loves and Music ["Kakki" ] Re: Joni's Loves and Music [Scott Price ] Re: Joni's Loves and Music [IVPAUL42@aol.com] ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Sat, 18 Nov 2000 06:15:49 EST From: Gertus@aol.com Subject: Re: What do you like to read (NJC) In a message dated 18/11/00 07:04:53 GMT Standard Time, patrickl16@earthlink.net writes: > i've had 'an equal music' on my hope to/maybe list for a while. didn't read > 'suitable boy', but vikram seth wrote a book in the '80s called 'golden > gate', a somewhat light northern california soap opera, except for the fact > that whole novel was written as a series of 14-line sonnets (that may be > redundant). they weren't in the typical shakespeare rhyme scheme, they were > in the same scheme as 'eugene onegin'. > > it sounds like a parlor trick, and reading it felt like that for about half > of the first chapter, then the story grabbed me. yes, i looked at each > sonnet as i read, and marvelled how he could keep doing it, but that would > get my defenses down and i'd get to know the characters better, and care > more for them. a really lovely, favorite book. > Thanks, for that, Patrick. It's lovely to hear from you. I've looked at that book in shops once or twice and was put off by the idea of reading a book in verse. I'm not good at reading poetry at the best of times and often find it difficult to understand the meaning. Now, after reading your opinion, I shall definitely give it a go. In fact, I'll put it on my Christmas list. If you decide to read "An Equal Music", I really recommend obtaining the 2 CD set of music which has been issued to accompany the book and listening to it as you read - really atmospheric. I started reading it that way on the plane over to Boston and I suspect the 2 glasses of wine helped as well to make me feel really good about the book. My best, Jacky ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 18 Nov 2000 07:13:08 EST From: Chorando6@aol.com Subject: Re: JMDL Digest V2000 #612 Just a little book reading list for your perusal. Perfume by Patrick Suskind All of Michael Cunningham - Home at the end of the world, Flesh and Blood etc. Something of all our lives in his writing and oh so eloquent to boot. For laugh out loud, don't give a toss if anyone sees me and hope that they do so that I can recommend this little gem....David Sedaris - Barrel Fever. And for the bizarre bedded with the everyday a little bit of Bernice Rubens particularly Spring Sonata, I sent a letter to my love, Sunday best or Birds of Passage. Till another timexxClive ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 18 Nov 2000 07:27:39 -0500 From: "Christopher J. Treacy" Subject: Trading Other Artists (NJC) Hey there all. Just putting out an 'all-points' bulletin about the following: I'm looking to expand my collection of live recordings by Carole King, Laura Nyro, Joan Armatrading, and (gasp!) Chaka Khan. I DO realize this is the Joni list, but due to the fact that as a group we have such good taste, I figure this is as good a place as any to do this. If you have anything to trade, please email me privately, and I'll respond with my list. Thanks! -Chris Magpie119@Juno.com NP:"Morning Has Broken"-Cat Stevens ________________________________________________________________ GET INTERNET ACCESS FROM JUNO! Juno offers FREE or PREMIUM Internet access for less! Join Juno today! For your FREE software, visit: http://dl.www.juno.com/get/tagj. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 18 Nov 2000 08:46:06 -0500 From: "Victor Johnson" Subject: Re: Joni's Loves and Music > > in fact, i'm not sure i'm even "objecting" now that i think > about it. but, something about the way that list looked struck > me as sad. and, politically: icky. Since we have no way of knowing who any of these songs were written about (assuming they were written about one person which we don't know either) then this list strikes me as kind of pointless and seems like something you would find in People magazine. I don't feel particularly enlightened about any of her material having read it and for me personally it is a little more than I want to know about Joni's personal life. Since we've already established that songs are often about relationships, then I don't see what this list is indicating. I saw Larry Klein in a bar this spring...at the time it seemed kind of cool to run into him after the show but it was not a particularly meaningful experience. I didn't feel all of the sudden, "oh ...that's what she meant on those albums...now I understand." Women and men, people in general need each other...it's a fundamental concept. Most people who own my cd "Tangled", have no idea that most of the songs on it were written about my exgirlfriend, Amandine and I don't think they need to know that to fully appreciate the music. The only people that might find any meaning in knowing that are friends of mine who know both of us and even then its still rather insignificant to any one except me and her. Sometimes, things that are a mystery should just be left a mystery. That's part of what gives music its intriguing nature. Victor ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 18 Nov 2000 09:00:51 -0500 (EST) From: "Gerald Notaro (LIB)" Subject: Re: Books NJC So glad to see one of my favorite authors talked about. My favorite of his is What is Bred in the Bone. Jerry On Sat, 18 Nov 2000 Dflahm@aol.com wrote: > My favorite Robertson Davies novel is not part of any trilogy. It's about > musicians and is called A MIXTURE of FRAILTIES. I have enjoyed several of his > works over the last 25 years. > David Lahm > ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 18 Nov 2000 09:38:52 EST From: SCJoniGuy@aol.com Subject: Re: Joni's Loves and Music << I don't feel particularly enlightened about any of her material having read it and for me personally it is a little more than I want to know about Joni's personal life. >> Well, let's not be TOO tough on Marcel...while I mostly agree with you, I think it was an interesting exercise. I don't think it sheds any light on anything...there are SOME songs where the subject is KNOWN and where the writing was immediate, like some of the Blue & FTR stuff. But then there's "Beat of Black Wings", written over 20 years AFTER she met & talked with "Killer Kyle" and first mentioned him in "Cactus Tree": "There's a man who sends her medals, He is bleeding from the war"... So it would be a false assumption to think that the songs in each period revolve around who she was romantically linked to, and like Victor says, doesn't provide much illumination. What WOULD be interesting, and far more meaningful I think, would be to match Joni's albums with partners for ourselves. One of the reasons Hejira resonates so much with me has nothing to do with Joni's relationship to John Guerin or whomever, but rather what *I* was going through with a girl named Laura (not the coupon queen! :~D). So maybe that's more of a key to why Joni is special to us; not an analysis of what the songs are about to HER, but rather what they mean to us on a purely individual level. Bob NP: Rickie Lee Jones, "Show Biz Kids" ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 18 Nov 2000 10:07:23 EST From: AsharaJM@aol.com Subject: Sign-ups for VideoTree #2 Since I have a crazy busy weekend and won't be able to get to finish the Tree Structure until the beginning of next week anyway, I am extending the Leaf sign-ups until midnight, Monday, November 20th. This is your last chance to climb on board for this VideoTree! Maybe some of the Branches that have received their tapes already can let you know what they think? Also....a thousand apologies to Janene Otten!!! I inadvertently forgot to add her name in my list of THANK YOU'S!!!!!!!!!! Janene has offered to transfer all the PAL Branch copies into the PAL format. This saves the PAL users TONS of money, and is GREATLY appreciated!! THANK YOU, Janene for all your hard work!! Go to: http://www.jmdl.com/trading/leafsignup.cfm to sign up for VideoTree #2!! Hugs, Ashara www.photon.net/lightnet ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 18 Nov 2000 10:24:09 -0500 (EST) From: "Gerald Notaro (LIB)" Subject: Re: Joni's Loves and Music And then we could always take Joni's advice and not read too much specificity of intent or interpreetation into her work. Jerry On Sat, 18 Nov 2000 SCJoniGuy@aol.com wrote: > << I don't feel particularly enlightened about > any of her material having read it and for me personally it is a little more > than I want to know about Joni's personal life. >> > > Well, let's not be TOO tough on Marcel...while I mostly agree with you, I > think it was an interesting exercise. I don't think it sheds any light on > anything...there are SOME songs where the subject is KNOWN and where the > writing was immediate, like some of the Blue & FTR stuff. But then there's > "Beat of Black Wings", written over 20 years AFTER she met & talked with > "Killer Kyle" and first mentioned him in "Cactus Tree": > > "There's a man who sends her medals, > He is bleeding from the war"... > > So it would be a false assumption to think that the songs in each period > revolve around who she was romantically linked to, and like Victor says, > doesn't provide much illumination. > > What WOULD be interesting, and far more meaningful I think, would be to match > Joni's albums with partners for ourselves. One of the reasons Hejira > resonates so much with me has nothing to do with Joni's relationship to John > Guerin or whomever, but rather what *I* was going through with a girl named > Laura (not the coupon queen! :~D). > > So maybe that's more of a key to why Joni is special to us; not an analysis > of what the songs are about to HER, but rather what they mean to us on a > purely individual level. > > Bob > > NP: Rickie Lee Jones, "Show Biz Kids" > ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 18 Nov 2000 11:21:23 -0500 From: "Christopher J. Treacy" Subject: Joni's Music & OUR Loves... Bob's eloquent suggestion; "What WOULD be interesting, and far more meaningful I think, would be to match Joni's albums with partners for ourselves." A great idea, after all, I think this is what drives us to be so curious about what romantic aspects of Joni's life the music coincides with - it's a comparative thing, a way to feel closer to an artist; i.e. "Are/Were we going through the same thing?" In light of that, I must once again express my appreciation for "Night Ride Home". This disc came out while I was up at college in New Hampshire and dating the last woman of romantic significance in my life (I jumped ship for beings of a more burly appeal after that, and it remains that way to this day). The day the CD was released, I cut class and drove to Keene to pick it up. It was later winter/early spring, which if the mud isn't completely out of control, can be a magical time in New England. My girlfriend, Rachel, was so excited to be present for a new Joni release, being able to share it with me etc; this became 'our record'. Though it was not July, the title track signified a very romantic period for us, a magical time that I will never forget and that, sadly, many people only experience once in a lifetime. Though the disc certainly does not ride along like one blissful bonanza all the way through, the bittersweet themes of aging, acceptance, and reluctant contentedness I believe apply universally to the shift in romance when a domestic dependance and routine take over, often leaving people wondering what happened to the fireworks. For the time in which the disc was written, I think Joni was trying to reconcile these same feelings, and the title track is evidence that romantic moments wax and wane, but certainly are still possible if love is true. As my relationship with Rachel began to buckle under the strain of my sexual confusion, an element of loss crept into the picture, which I can also hear on NRH. In keeping with these themes, the CD ends with "Two Grey Rooms", which chokes me up TO THIS DAY and without fail, an indelible memory of a love never quite recovered from. Rachel and I remain close these days, and NRH will always be a time capsule for us, a reminder of the ups and downs that our relationship went through in it's initial stages. Though I won't completely unhash this one, "Turbulent Indigo" was released at the 'beginning of the end' of a long term relationship with a man here in Boston. I remember sitting in the living room with him, listening to the last bits of "The Sire of Sorrow" on the advance tape that Wally had sent me, and Greg turning to me and saying "It sounds like she feels all her Gods have failed her;" needless to say, I just burst into tears. Even now, I can barely listen to "Last chance Lost". -Chris NP:Stone Temple Pilots "No. 4" ________________________________________________________________ GET INTERNET ACCESS FROM JUNO! Juno offers FREE or PREMIUM Internet access for less! Join Juno today! For your FREE software, visit: http://dl.www.juno.com/get/tagj. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 18 Nov 2000 12:08:22 EST From: IVPAUL42@aol.com Subject: Re: Joni's Loves and Music In a message dated 11/18/00 10:25:03 AM Eastern Standard Time, notaro@bayflash.stpt.usf.edu writes: << And then we could always take Joni's advice and not read too much specificity of intent or interpreetation into her work. Jerry >> And it's also not safe to assume that every song is about HER and her life and loves. I'm sure she is not the only songwriter who writes in the first person even though the story is about a friend's lost love or whatever. "Love is a story told to a friend; it's second-hand." Paul I ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 18 Nov 2000 13:19:00 EST From: SCJoniGuy@aol.com Subject: Re: Sign-ups for VideoTree #2 << Maybe some of the Branches that have received their tapes already can let you know what they think? >> Well, I'm not an official Branch...more like a NUT that fell from the tree, but I DID receive my videotapes from Ashara this week, and started watching them last night. Since I had seen some of the Mendel tape, I started with the other one which begins with the "Way it is" TV segments....WOWWEE!! This is fabulous stuff, people, which you definitely want to have! I saw all of that and the first couple of tracks of the "Intimate & Interactive" 1994 show. The quality of all of this is amazing! I am a very happy boy! Thanks so much Ashara and all others for making this available. I know you've worked VERY hard to complete this project, and I appreciate it very much!! Bob NP: Eleni Mandell, "Muriel" ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 18 Nov 2000 13:33:33 -0500 From: "Victor Johnson" Subject: Re: Joni's Loves and Music > > Well, let's not be TOO tough on Marcel...while I mostly agree with you, I > think it was an interesting exercise. Interesting yes. Maybe it was just the way it was presented in a list that seemed like a list of former presidents or something...:>) The actual process of writing songs and music I find very fascinating...and it's definately intriguing to wonder about what inspired a particular song. I was thinking the other day about the partnership of Bernie Taupin and Elton John. For years I've heard Elton's voice singing Bernie's lyrics and my mind naturally attributes all the emotions and thoughts to the singer though I realize upon thinking about it that those words came from Bernie and must have been inspired by things in his life. Then they're added to Elton's music which has its own inspiration. This kind of partnership seems unusual as songwriting is such a personal matter. Victor NP Grateful Dead Fillmore East New York City April 1971 "Turn on Your Lovelight" (this is a four disc set that came out this year....and its so sweeeeetttt!!! ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 18 Nov 2000 10:27:40 -0800 From: "Kate Bennett" Subject: imagine & another commentary from Nigeria Hi, Just want to clarify that I did not write the Imagine post, it was sent to me & it doesn't suprise me to hear it was on the BBC. Also the portion that you refer to as tongue in cheek was a comment written by someone else in rebuttal to the post. Its easy to mix up who said what on the internet so be careful when quoting. Also I sent the post as food for thought because I found it very interesting. Just to balance things out a little, here is another post I received that encourages us to relax & that as messy as things are, democracy is at work: Sunday, November 12, 2000 12:01 a.m. EST >From "America and the Battle for Florida," a commentary by Reuben Abati in Nigeria's Guardian, Nov. 10: If Bush were a Nigerian, and his opponent had already conceded victory to him only for a character called a state attorney-general to invoke a letter of the law, which upturns the cart, I tell you, there would have been bloodshed on the streets. Bush's kinsmen would have taken to the bush to prepare for war. They would have spoken of marginalisation and every member of that ethnic group would have taken up arms to defend their kinsman. As for the attorney-general who fouled things up, he would have been beheaded, or he would have had to go underground. I mean, what did he think he was doing: quoting the law? Nigerians would have asked him: what law? Indeed if America were Nigeria, that long re-counting of votes in Florida would have resulted in a clash of the local gangs. Can you imagine anyone recounting the votes in Anambra State to determine whether an Igbo man or a Yoruba man should become president? The OPC would have travelled to Onitsha to fight the Bakassi boys: there would have been so much mayhem that the elections would have had to be cancelled. Or the military would have intervened. By now, really, George Bush's father would have intervened to say that some people are trying to victimise his son. Mrs. Bush would have gone on television to shed some crocodile tears. Al Gore's supporters would have issued a statement to the effect that Americans should not serve father and son, in the same century. They would have claimed that some assassins are after Al Gore. Witch-doctors, pastors, palm readers, and futurologists would all have stepped into the matter to make some uncanny predictions. If President Clinton were a Nigerian, he too would have deemed it fit to make some white noise. But in America, a different kind of democracy is at work. George Bush has not called out any thugs. Al Gore has not issued any apocalyptic threats. President Bill Clinton is quiet. What is on display is the beauty of American democracy, and the centrality of due process and the rule of law. - - ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 18 Nov 2000 10:48:57 -0800 From: "Mark or Travis" Subject: Re: songwriting teams NJC > I realize upon thinking about it that those words came from Bernie and must > have been inspired by things in his life. Then they're added to Elton's > music which has its own inspiration. This kind of partnership seems unusual > as songwriting is such a personal matter. Not unusual at all: Lennon/McCartney Goffin/King Bacharach/David Rogers/Hart Rogers/Hammerstein Lerner/Lowe Holland/Dozier/Holland The list goes on & on. The separate composer & lyricist model was once more the norm than the exception. Mark in Seattle ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 18 Nov 2000 14:02:07 -0500 From: "Victor Johnson" Subject: Re: songwriting teams NJC > > Not unusual at all: > > Lennon/McCartney > Goffin/King > Bacharach/David > Rogers/Hart > Rogers/Hammerstein > Lerner/Lowe > Holland/Dozier/Holland > > The list goes on & on. The separate composer & lyricist model was > once more the norm than the exception. Now that you mention it, I realize that when you bring in standards/jazz/broadway you're going to find lots of these partnerships which, as you say, were once more the norm. I guess its more that I find the process itself unusual by its very nature as opposed to a solitary writer. Hunter and Garcia are another great example of brilliant partnerships. I find both the music and lyrics mystifying. Victor, leaving for Mount Airy, NC in a few minutes to jam with the guy who wrote HFB( and who has other beautiful songs that I must play at the next jonifest...I'm all for a Florida fest!!! Born and raised in Tampa, Florida(well technically Temple Terrace :>)) ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 18 Nov 2000 19:16:42 -0000 From: "Chris Marshall" Subject: RE: imagine & another commentary from Nigeria Kate wrote: > Just want to clarify that I did not write the Imagine post, it was sent to > me & it doesn't suprise me to hear it was on the BBC. Also the > portion that you refer to as tongue in cheek was a comment written > by someone else in rebuttal to the post. > Its easy to mix up who said what on the internet so be careful > when quoting. Kate, the quoting cock-up was my fault. Sorry. I've been on the Internet for years and years, and it's unusual for me to make a mess of the quoting because I'm well aware of the mix-ups it causes, and I'm usually more irritated than most by poor quoting. I can only plead mitigating circumstances: Steve and I were well into the second bottle of wine by that point. It was Marcel who made the comment which I strongly hope was tongue in cheek. Apologies once again Kate. - --Chris (Moral: Don't drink and surf :) ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 18 Nov 2000 14:59:10 EST From: MDESTE1@aol.com Subject: Re: Joni's Loves and Music (md) In a message dated 11/18/00 5:55:41 AM Pacific Standard Time, waytoblu@mindspring.com writes: << but, something about the way that list looked struck > me as sad. and, politically: icky. >> "politically icky" . I guess some people see politics in everything. Please post a list of all those things no one should write about so we can all avoid being icky. besides dont criticize what you cant understand said Bob Dylan. marceldeste ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 18 Nov 2000 12:08:21 -0800 (PST) From: Brian Gross Subject: NJC Be careful what you wish for! > Veterinarians in Moscow saved a hamster after the family dog swallowed it > whole. The parents of the child owner rushed the dog to the vet when they > heard the hamster squeaking inside the dog. The child was given back his > hamster after it was thoroughly washed. > > The report in Pravda does not elaborate on how they got the hamster back out > but we can imagine. > > The dog had been trying for months to catch the hamster. I'll bet the dog > will never do that again! Goes to prove that one should be careful of what > they wish for. Ananova 15-Nov-00 http://www.ananova.com/news/story/sm_116820.html?nav_src=newsIndexHeadline ===== "No paper thin walls, no folks above No one else can hear the crazy cries of love" yeah, right __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Calendar - Get organized for the holidays! http://calendar.yahoo.com/ ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 18 Nov 2000 22:10:18 +0000 From: catman Subject: Re: Joni's Loves and MusicNJC > Then they're added to Elton's > music which has its own inspiration. I don't car for Elton John's music but Parkinson did an hour special on him the other. parky gave Elton a lyric his staff had made up earlier and asked Elton to compose a tune for it. Elton then just sang this lyric - really well. I was astonished. It completely baffles me how anybody can write music but I am very glad they can. bw colin ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 18 Nov 2000 22:12:53 +0000 From: catman Subject: Re: NJC Be careful what you wish for! This must be one of those urban myths! The hamster would have suffocated long before they got it out and apart from that, would have already been part digested! bw colin-an expert on dogs swallowing hamsters-not. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 18 Nov 2000 22:14:52 +0000 From: catman Subject: elctric shock NJC Brad is now banned from the bedroom at night. When I awoke, he had chewed thru the elctric cable leading to the lamp. Right thru it. It was plugged in. Can anyone explain to me why he didn't get elctrocuted? Or why there wasn't a short out? In fact nothing happened at all except the cable is in two pieces. - -- bw colin colin@tantra.fsbusiness.co.uk http://www.geocities.com/tantra_apso/index.html ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 18 Nov 2000 16:33:22 -0600 From: evian Subject: Joni's Loves and Music > i'm sort of dismayed by the way this list of men looks, > by what it assumes and presumes to do. is it really > meaningful to reduce the albums to which man she was with > at the time? what does this kind of simplified biographical > shorthand reveal? > > i'm not trying to be disingenuous...i'm confused. what's > interesting to you about viewing her work in this way? > > Well, this topic has reared its head on the list before, and I still have to defend the notion of knowing all we can about Joni during the time each of her albums came out. It makes it all the more meaningful to me to understand that Joni was with JT during FTR or Blue or whatever, and to make inferences about how autobiographical certain songs may be, etc. Now I know Joni has said before that she *isn't* autobiographical, but I just have to say bullshit to that. Look at "Love Puts on a New Face" and "Happiness is the Best Facelift" -- both are about her life and her relationship with Don Freed. Look at Cherokee Louise... or Song for Sharon... or Little Green... or whatever. Personally, I find it fascinating to know who Joni was with when she was writing, and no, I do not think that this ends up stereotyping her as being dominated by her relationship with whatever man she was with at the time. Rather, I think it makes it all the more interesting, because it gets us into speculating about what their relationship was like, what Joni's life was like at the time, her frame of mind, etc. An example would be something like "ACOY" and being "prepared to bleed", and contrasting that relationship (ok, SUPPOSED relationship that she was in at the time, assuming the song is autobiographical) with WTRF songs and her relationship with Klein. I don't find that this is belittling Joni at all -- rather, I find it fascinating in light of the ways in which we can relate her life to her work. But anyway, I'm rambling. Evian np: Kid A -- just bought it today, and am really digging it thus far! Thanks listers (although for the life of me, I'll never quite figure out the beauty of "Car Wheels on a Gravel Road" -- that one makes me want to get in the ole pickup with a bottle of Jim Beam and burn myself with a lit cigarette over and over -- lol, in other words, it depresses the hell outta me. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 18 Nov 2000 23:05:07 -0000 From: "Garret" Subject: Joni covered I got an email from a friend telling me that he'd found various artists covering Joni songs. he wantee to know if i knew of them. he named some of the well known ones like Judy Collins etc. he mentioned Linda Ronstadts christmas album with river. but he did mention some i haven't heard of. just wondering if you already had these bob, or if someone on the list happened to pick them up! > >jeff stewart doing River on his christmas album >Naked Barbies doing River on Living Indepentantly >Monty Alexander doing Big Yellow taxi call me a neanderthal if you will, but i've never heard of any of these people. GARRET ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 18 Nov 2000 17:28:10 -0500 From: "Jim L'Hommedieu" Subject: Re: Joni's Loves and Music Bonjour emily, Hmmm. I agree that at first I found it vaguely disturbing. Listing all of those names _seems_ like we're revisiting that insulting Rolling Stone article but no one has attached a negative connotation to it. On the other hand, if it was Carly's list instead, would it be insulting to note that Carly's debut album was pre-James, while "Hotcakes" was not? No, it must mean something different when we're talking about Joni's case. We're not mocking Joni with the list, although it's a very unusual list. Seeing the names reminds me that James' guitar playing influenced the sound of "Blue" and Larry influenced "Hejira", and I prefer to leave it at that- as another useful tool to facilitate pondering her catalog, her prolific nature, and her many musical collaborators. (I wouldn't have the list in my hands when interviewing her though! It might be a little explosive for that.) There is no name-calling in the post. There are no accusations. I hope we can conduct this thread delicately and respectfully or I'll have to defend the lady's honor. :) Maybe we can sneak it past Paz as he seems to crave controversy lately...... (Michael, be NICE!) emily said, [[hi marcel. i wanted to comment on that long list of joni's lovers/boyfriends/companions that you posted. although you wrote that you "have to caution" that there may be no link between each person and the work of art listed next to HIM, i'm still troubled despite this "cautioning."]] Lama "Still she stays with a love of SOME kind. It's the lady's choice." ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 18 Nov 2000 22:11:49 +0000 From: Jason Maloney Subject: Re: Joni's Loves and MusicNJC catman wrote: > > I don't car for Elton John's music but Parkinson did an hour special on him the other. > parky gave Elton a lyric his staff had made up earlier and asked Elton to compose a tune > for it. Elton then just sang this lyric - really well. I was astonished. > It completely baffles me how anybody can write music but I am very glad they can. I saw the programme too, and it is a real talent Elton John has. Those lyrics were so (deliberately) awful, yet he made them sound almost bearable. It was a great TV moment. In fact, what he *wrote* sounded like everything he'd done on record over the last 10 years. Which probably says a lot about how little he pushes himself artistically nowadays. I got bored with his output around 1993, the songs just started to blur into each other. Still, he has a formula that obviously works for him. Jason. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 18 Nov 2000 17:38:13 -0500 From: "Jim L'Hommedieu" Subject: The Beatles:Revolution tonight on ABC NJC Hi Rose, So these guys, these Beeteles, they were good? Which one should I buy if I only want one Beeteles album? Didn't they re-do Magdalene Laundaries with Joni? They're Celtic, right? I might decide to wait on the new Ricky Martin album and try a Beeteles album instead. What do you think? Lama :) ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 18 Nov 2000 18:00:39 +0000 From: Nancy Subject: Re: books If you liked this book, you might like Sandra Dallas' The Persian Pickle Club. It's about a group of women who get together to make quilts, and is set back in the 30's (depression era). For the last couple of years, I've been choosing an author, and reading all of her novels. I also liked Sandra's The Diary of Mattie Spenser; Kaye Gibbons' Charms for The Easy Life; On the Occasion of my Last Afternoon; A Virtuous Woman; and Anna Quindlan's One True Thing; Black and Blue. There are so many good books available! I've enjoyed several that are included in Oprah's book club. Also, if you go to Amazon.com, you can read lots of book reviews. They even link similar types/styles of fiction, so if you like one author, you can find something of interest fairly easily. Then go check out the books at the public library! Sandra Dallas has a new book, Alice's Tulips, which I have on reserve at the library. Hope to get it read very soon! Hope this helps you. - --Nancy/IA >Has anyone read "The Divine Secrets of the Ya Ya Sisterhood"? I loved this >book- the writing was so good that I feel like it spoiled me. I have not >been able to find anything since to hold my attention since reading that >book. I heard that her other one was not as good. >******************************************** >Kate Bennett ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 18 Nov 2000 19:17:41 EST From: SCJoniGuy@aol.com Subject: Re: Joni covered << he mentioned Linda Ronstadts christmas album with river.>> A very nice version it is, too (Thanks Stephen E!)...it'll be on Volume 12, right around the corner... << >jeff stewart doing River on his christmas album >Naked Barbies doing River on Living Indepentantly >Monty Alexander doing Big Yellow taxi>> The last one I've heard of but don't have. The other two I've never heard of, but am adding to our database. Your mission...GET 'EM! :~) Bob NP: Judgement of the Moon & Stars, Concord CA '00 ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 18 Nov 2000 19:23:21 EST From: SCJoniGuy@aol.com Subject: Re: Joni's Loves and Music << Larry influenced "Hejira" >> Survey said.....BUZZZZZ! I don't think Larry had anything to do with Hejira, Lama, but he DID have lots of influence from WTRF on! ;~) And I was gonna letcha slide, but just couldn't bring myself to do it...:~) Bob NP: Hejira (w/Larry on Bass), Concord, CA '00 ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 19 Nov 2000 11:31 +1000 From: john low Subject: What do you like to read? NJC Like several others who have posted on this thread, I enjoy reading crime fiction. Some time ago I discovered the ‘Inspector Rebus’ novels of Scottish writer Ian Rankin. If you like the dark, edgy atmosphere of gritty, well written thrillers combined with a strong evocation of place (in this case, Edinburgh) I’m sure you’ll really enjoy these novels. Coincidentally, the first of two movie length versions of Rankin’s stories appeared on TV here last Friday evening. Cheers, John (in Sydney) __________________________________________________________________ Get your free Australian email account at http://www.start.com.au ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 19 Nov 2000 11:11 +1000 From: john low Subject: RE: What we're reading these days (njc) Roberto wrote: "Then there's a New Zealander, and a great writer of short stories: Katherine Mansfield. ("The Doll's House" is so great and powerful, but every effect she achieves and every point she makes is done with such subtlety...)" I absolutely agree, Roberto! Katherine Mansfield is without a doubt one of the great short story writers. My favourite (if I have to choose) is "At the Bay" from her collection 'The Garden Party'. Such delicate and evocative writing! I read a fine biography of her (she died in 1923 of TB at the age of 35) some years ago titled 'A Secret Life' by Claire Tomalin. Mansfield's stories are definitely recommended and I think would appeal to most Joni M. fans. John (in Sydney). __________________________________________________________________ Get your free Australian email account at http://www.start.com.au ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 18 Nov 2000 22:33:11 EST From: MGVal@aol.com Subject: Re: Joni's Loves and Music Okay, Emily sent out this post in response to Marcel's posting about Joni's music and songs and the men she may/may not have been involved with at the time. Emily felt that: << > i'm sort of dismayed by the way this list of men looks, by what it assumes and presumes to do. is it really meaningful to reduce the albums to which man she was with at the time? what does this kind of simplified biographical shorthand reveal? Marcel kindly forwarded his post to me and after reading it as thoroughly as is possible when there are two kids hanging over your shoulders bugging you to take them to the store for no good reason, I have to say that I see absolutely nothing simplistic or disrespectful or "People" magazine-y about the attempt to line up Joni's albums with relationships. Marcel pointed out that most of her songs are about relationships; be it love, the end of love, the flaws of love. For me, it is significant that in her autobiographical "Song for Sharon," Joni writes that: "love stimulated my illusions more than anything." Make no mistake about it, Joni's songs stand alone and drilling down into the more personal detail isn't necessary for full enjoyment and enlightenment. However, she is a public personality as well, so we fall into the groove of thinking we "know" her and within that, wanting to know her better. I think that finding out which lover inspired which song shines less light on the piece of art created and more light on the artist herself. And from there, I guess a kind of trickle down enlightenment applies. And that's the view from me MG - steps away from melting into butter because Allie is brushing my hair while I type. np Amy Grant: Big Yellow Taxi ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 18 Nov 2000 21:12:51 -0800 From: "Kakki" Subject: Re: Joni's Loves and Music On a related note, I just received from a list friend a nice big reproduction of the February 3, 1972 Rolling Stone "Hollywood's Hot 100" aka the infamous so-called "flow-chart" of all Joni's loves. Many people have been hunting for this legendary chart which purportedly has been the source of Joni's long-term rancor towards the publication. I have to tell you, I initially could not see what would offend Joni so much about it. There are tons of other musicians in the boxes linked to tons of other musicians. In fact, I thought they gave special prominence to Joni in, what I perceive, an affectionate way by singling her out with a big lipstick kiss encircling her name. She is only linked to James Taylor, Graham Nash and David Crosby - all of which has always been common knowledge and also true. I recall an interview where Joni said they had linked her to many people who she'd never been involved with and how it hurt them and her, etc. But I don't see that at all - she definitely had relationships with those men. On a second look at the chart, however, I have a hunch at what *really* might have irked her. The majority of the connective lines on the chart signify *musical* alliances, with the romantic alliances being a sort of secondary acknowledgement. Joni does not even rate her own box as a musician on the mostly male dominated chart, while at least Rita Coolidge and Carole King are given their own boxes and tied to musical alliances. If you look at it another way, or maybe from her perspective, one can see how she might feel dissed, marginalized and made to look as if she was nothing more than those guys' star groupie. I suspect this is the real reason she was offended but might have been too hurt or had too much pride to say it. I can see why she got her fur up a bit. Kakki ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 18 Nov 2000 22:59:04 -0800 From: Scott Price Subject: Re: Joni's Loves and Music At 09:12 PM 11/18/00 -0800, Kakki wrote: >I just received from a list friend a nice big >reproduction of the February 3, 1972 Rolling Stone >the infamous so-called "flow-chart" of all Joni's loves. >I have to tell you, I initially could not see what would offend Joni >so much about it. I seem to recall Joni or someone else referring to a headine accompanying this Rolling Stone "flow chart" that named her "Old Lady of the Year" and I think that was at least part of the reason for her grudge. Is that wording anywhere in evidence? Was it perhaps on the front cover of the issue, or in the table of contents? Scott ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 19 Nov 2000 02:25:44 EST From: IVPAUL42@aol.com Subject: Re: Joni's Loves and Music In a message dated 11/19/00 12:33:41 AM Eastern Standard Time, KakkiB@worldnet.att.net writes: << There are tons of other musicians in the boxes linked to tons of other musicians. In fact, I thought they gave special prominence to Joni in, what I perceive, an affectionate way by singling her out with a big lipstick kiss encircling her name. She is only linked to James Taylor, Graham Nash and David Crosby - all of which has always been common knowledge and also true. >> I think the objection, at least mine, is the implication that the other connections between musicians is musical, while hers were sexual, or that she used her feminine wiles to get where she was, rather than her artistic talent. Paul I ------------------------------ End of JMDL Digest V2000 #614 ***************************** ------- Post messages to the list by clicking here: mailto:joni@smoe.org Unsubscribe by clicking here: mailto:joni-digest-request@smoe.org?body=unsubscribe ------- Siquomb, isn't she?