From: les@jmdl.com (JMDL Digest) To: joni-digest@smoe.org Subject: JMDL Digest V2000 #613 Reply-To: joni@smoe.org Sender: les@jmdl.com Errors-To: les@jmdl.com Precedence: bulk VideoTree sign-up: http://www.jmdl.com/trading Unsubscribe: mailto:joni-digest-request@smoe.org?body=unsubscribe Archives: http://www.smoe.org/lists/joni Websites: http://www.jmdl.com http://www.jonimitchell.com JMDL Digest Saturday, November 18 2000 Volume 2000 : Number 613 The 'Official' Joni Mitchell Homepage, created by Wally Breese, can be found at http://www.jonimitchell.com. It contains the latest news, a detailed bio, Original Interviews, essays, lyrics and much much more. The JMDL website can be found at http://www.jmdl.com and contains interviews, articles, the member gallery, archives, and much more. Sign up for VideoTree #2 now: http://www.jmdl.com/trading ========== TOPICS and authors in this Digest: -------- RE: imagine, Yes lets. NJC ["Chris Marshall" ] Re: imagine NJC [Ken ] Joni's Loves and Music [Emily Kirk Gray ] A Case Of Joni, Promo Copies? [Twenty2Foreplay@aol.com] RE:Books (NJC) ["Garret" ] Re: imagine NJC [mags ] RE: Books (njc) ["Garret" ] Re: books (njc) ["Garret" ] Mad magazine parodies -- Dylan NJC [Louis Lynch ] Re: imagine, Yes lets. NJC [catman ] Re: Joni's Loves and Music [Emily Kirk Gray ] Re: Kakki is in Tampa (NJC) ["Kakki" ] The Beatles:Revolution tonight on ABC NJC [RoseMJoy@aol.com] RE: imagine NJC ["Wally Kairuz" ] Thanks Wally! NJC [LSThomas42@aol.com] Re: Books NJC [Dflahm@aol.com] RE: What do you like to read (NJC) ["patrick leader" ] what we're reading these days (njc) [Robert Holliston ] ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Fri, 17 Nov 2000 22:14:53 -0000 From: "Chris Marshall" Subject: RE: imagine, Yes lets. NJC Kate Bennett said:- > Imagine... a bunch of spookily familiar things... These points (almost exactly) were made tonight on the BBC's Radio 4 - between 5 and 6pm. Kate's e-mail arrived at 7.15pm. It's astonishing how quickly these things travel around from medium to medium these days. Note: I'm not saying that Kate's mail was ripped off from anywhere: it's far more likely that the someone in the beeb found it and forwarded it to the programme makers there. > <<<2. Imagine that the self-declared winner lost the popular vote, but won > based on some old colonial holdover from the nation's pre-democracy past. > > There are no electoral colleges anywhere else in the world because everywhere > else the Government is able to pay off the masses which are uneducated and > prey to scare tactics and payola for votes Excuse me? Hello? I assume that _was_ tongue in cheek, right? - --Chris ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 17 Nov 2000 17:40:07 -0500 From: Ken Subject: Re: imagine NJC Same system in Canada, basically. In Canada, in federal elections, you vote for your local MP, not for the Prime Minister (president) . The MP who wins gets one seat in parliament. The party which ends up with the most seats forms the next Government and the Prime Minister is the head of that party. It is quite possible for a party to win the largest percentage of the vote but not to form the next Government because it didn't win as many seats. Sound familiar. Kate Bennett wrote: > A forward from a friend, > > > 2. Imagine that the self-declared winner lost the popular vote, but won > based on some old colonial holdover from the nation's pre-democracy past. > ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 17 Nov 2000 17:43:21 -0500 (EST) From: Emily Kirk Gray Subject: Joni's Loves and Music hi marcel. i wanted to comment on that long list of joni's lovers/boyfriends/companions that you posted. although you wrote that you "have to caution" that there may be no link between each person and the work of art listed next to HIM, i'm still troubled despite this "cautioning." i'm sort of dismayed by the way this list of men looks, by what it assumes and presumes to do. is it really meaningful to reduce the albums to which man she was with at the time? what does this kind of simplified biographical shorthand reveal? i'm not trying to be disingenuous...i'm confused. what's interesting to you about viewing her work in this way? my own understanding of this is that i see it as reductive, and stereotypical. as if we must view joni as a woman with a man before we can begin to understand her as an artist. - --emily ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 17 Nov 2000 17:57:07 EST From: Twenty2Foreplay@aol.com Subject: A Case Of Joni, Promo Copies? Does anyone have a promo copy of "A Case Of Joni" Or know when the promo's will be released? Thanks fans! Matthew ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 17 Nov 2000 23:16:26 -0000 From: "Garret" Subject: RE:Books (NJC) Sue, i "discovered" Toni Morrison about 20 years after you heard of her!! that was a great quote you included. you say Toni read this passage? i wonder why she chose that piece, she always has a motive..... a friend from America recommended Paradise to me. i totally forgot about his mentioning it. one day i just picked it up and bought it.....i dont know why....perhaps i liked the cover:-) i read it and loved it. i was blown away. but it confused me like hell. i tried to explain it to a friend and i couldn't. she tried to convince me that it mustn't have been that good. so, i read it again and paid far more attention to detail. i found that it was one of teh most original novels i'd ever read. but still.....what the hell is it about?? there are so many levels to it. i wasnt sure if it was my lack of understanding that caused me to see numerous and often conflicting themes. i concluded that this was Tonis intention (afterall, I couldn't be wrong now could i??:-). i found a discussion about the novel on the net. i didnt really want to read it, because i didn't want to be told what to think. i was a stubborn 17 year old! but i eventually read it, and it pointed out some amazing things that i'd missed. so i read it again. and finally i thought i understood it. i looked out for some of the quirks the critic had pointed out, and i began to get what Toni was getting at. now, i couldn't tell you what that is, but it sure is amazing. teh characters, although they are caricatures of real life, are vivid and alive. religious themes, female divinity themes, racism within black communities, mythology, intentional contradictions or "mistakes", plus the fact that the concepts of Jazz, Beloved, and Paradise were concieved as a trilogy by morrison lead one to make the observation that Paradise shows Toni Morrsion playing an unlikely role- leading us to open ended conclusions and showing a surprising sense of humour, and she has a reputation as the most serious writer in modern literature! Mark wrote: >'Beloved' is the only Toni Morrison I've read. As far as I'm ?concerned, that book alone puts her amongst the greats. >Beautiful, >powerful, amazing book. You know, this is one of the ones i haven't read. it is sitting on my shelf to be read soon. i loved the movie- i became so totally engrossed that i didnt notice the time, and i didnt eat my popcorn! i really can't wait til i get to it!! someone (can't remember who) commented that they enjoyed On The Road, by Kerouac. i have to admit i have never seen teh appeal of this. i attempted to read it and i couldn't finish it. i found it petrifyingly boring. my friend insists that the book is genius, which i dont doubt. it's supposed to be a totally new and unique style of writing, which indeed i respect, but i'm not a fan. i understand that Kerouac wrote for arts sake, and not necessarily to sell half a million copies. yes, he needed to make his living, but he wasn't guided by mass wants. and if that meant some people couldn't "get" his art, then it's their loss really......much the same as Joni in some regards, i do think. Kerouac was lead down a path which brought his writing further and further from the "conventional" novel as he developed his skill and created his art. many readers were estranged along the way, but those that got him really, really GOT him. i respect this integrity. GARRET ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 17 Nov 2000 18:08:23 -0600 From: mags Subject: Re: imagine NJC Ken wrote: > Same system in Canada, basically. In Canada, in federal elections, you vote for > your local MP, not for the Prime Minister (president) . The MP who wins gets one > seat in parliament. The party which ends up with the most seats forms the next > Government and the Prime Minister is the head of that party. It is quite > possible for a party to win the largest percentage of the vote but not to form > the next Government because it didn't win as many seats. Sound familiar. and mags chimes in: and with our federal election only a week or so away, we are all watching with baited breath what Doris Day (formally known as Stockwell Day) has to say. He is one scary homophobic, racist sick puppy b****** and Im leaving the country if he gets elected. That ok with y'all??? mags. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 17 Nov 2000 23:25:17 -0000 From: "Garret" Subject: RE: Books (njc) Chris wrote: >Anything by Stephen Fry - "Moab is my Washpot" being his >absolutely side-splitting autobiog. If you haven't yet, >do. Nnnnnnoooooooooo....it can't be. he's is awfully awful!!!!! he is one of the most irritating people alive!!! along with the ubiquitous Ronan Keating! have you ever read any of Iain M Banks sci-fi? i enjoyed one of his- Consider Phlebas, but the rest are not so great. GARRET np- Skunk Anansie- Twisted(Everyday Hurts) ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 17 Nov 2000 23:29:50 -0000 From: "Garret" Subject: Re: books (njc) Sue wrote to Chris: >Have you ever read The Chronicles of Thomas Covenant the >Unbeliever a >series of books by Stephen R. Donaldson? The six books in >the series >are: >Lord Foul's Bane >The Illearth War >The Power That Preserves > >and The Second Chronicles of Thomas Covenant >The Wounded Land >The One Tree >White Gold Wielder Wow Sue, you're really impressing me today! i honestly thought i was the only one to have these! i too loved them. i didnt know about the Second CHronicles though. i'm going book shopping tomorrow!! i got a great bargain on the first three...hard back in a slip case all for Ł6!! about $4, and brand new! i jsut thought of this one: i really enjoyed Mists of Avalon. it was a wonderful retelling of an amazing story GARRET ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 17 Nov 2000 15:17:13 -0800 From: Louis Lynch Subject: Mad magazine parodies -- Dylan NJC Deb and all, What mirthful memories of the Mad magazine parodies! In one issue, they parodied Bob Dylan. I still to this day cannot sing Blowin' in the Wind -- it comes out... And how many tubes of shampoo must you buy, before your hair's really clean.... The sponsors my friend will sell you all they can, the sponsors will sell you all they can. Regards, Harper Lou ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 17 Nov 2000 18:43:04 EST From: MGVal@aol.com Subject: Re: Joni's Loves and Music In a message dated 11/17/00 2:54:53 PM Pacific Standard Time, ekg200@is5.nyu.edu writes: << my own understanding of this is that i see it as reductive, and stereotypical. as if we must view joni as a woman with a man before we can begin to understand her as an artist. >> I didn't read Marcel's post that prompted this, but I am thinking that it doesn't have to be reductive and stereotypical to view Joni as a woman with a man before we can being to understand her as an artist. What is an artist but a person? What makes up a person but their likes and dislikes and their relationships with the world around them? Their relationships with men, women and children. Their joys and their fears. I think that there are many ways to "understand" art and an artist. Drilling down to the more personal level is just one way. For myself, I'm always fascinated by the very personal: her drug addiction, her relationship with men, her relationship with her parents - for me, it adds another layer to this person who created such treasures and puts another spin on her work. Is it necessary? Not really. Can it be pondered respectfully? I believe so. Just my point of view. MG ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 17 Nov 2000 23:56:34 +0000 From: catman Subject: Re: books (njc) > .hard back in a slip case all for Ł6!! about $4, how did you manage to get that Ł sign to show? Wheneever i have used it, it fails to show up on the email when it returns from the list! > and > brand new! > i jsut thought of this one: i really enjoyed Mists of Avalon. it was a > wonderful retelling of an amazing story > GARRET - -- bw colin colin@tantra.fsbusiness.co.uk http://www.geocities.com/tantra_apso/index.html ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 18 Nov 2000 00:02:55 +0000 From: catman Subject: Re: imagine, Yes lets. NJC > > > There are no electoral colleges anywhere else in the world because > everywhere > > else the Government is able to pay off the masses which are uneducated and > > prey to scare tactics and payola for votes > > Excuse me? Hello? I assume that _was_ tongue in cheek, right? I think you assume wrong, Chris. Comments like this show that the person concerned has little understanding of anything much. By the way, I don't know who wrote this paragraph but it wasn't Kate. > > > --Chris - -- bw colin colin@tantra.fsbusiness.co.uk http://www.geocities.com/tantra_apso/index.html ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 17 Nov 2000 19:24:03 -0500 (EST) From: Emily Kirk Gray Subject: Re: Joni's Loves and Music MG wrote, "What is an artist but a person? What makes up a person but their likes and dislikes and their relationships with the world around them? Their relationships with men, women and children. Their joys and their fears. " and i agree, wholeheartedly. in fact, it was not even marcel's post that i objected to, but rather: the list he included at the end. this list, in my mind, boils down all of the joys and subtleties and everyday occurences you write about, MG, into a simple equation: which man joni was with when she wrote which album. in fact, i'm not sure i'm even "objecting" now that i think about it. but, something about the way that list looked struck me as sad. and, politically: icky. i'm not sure i have entirely logical reasons for reacting this way. i, too, love reading biographies. i don't argue that joni's LIFE isn't wholly wrapped up in her music (although how can i be certain, after all: i don't know her.) i can be somewhat certain, though, that neither her life or her work can be reduced to a list of men she was dating. again, i stress that this is my own opinion. - --emily ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 17 Nov 2000 17:19:09 -0800 From: "Kakki" Subject: Re: Kakki is in Tampa (NJC) Bob Murphy wrote: > Oh, lordy. Kakki in Florida? I think maybe she's getting a >little bit too proactive about this whole recount thing... Ha! I'm back on the left coast after a demanding but very enjoyable biz trip to Tampa. I'd never really seen much of Florida outside of stopping over in the Miami airport a couple of times. I was completely wide-eyed and enchanted with both Tampa and St. Petersburg - ahhh. It was very gorgeous, clean, and the weather was stunning. These cities are beautiful. My high point, of course, was getting to hook up with Jerry Notaro last night! I drove across that lonnn-g causeway to St. Pete listening to incredible Celtic music on 88.5 - Tampa's answer to L.A.'s KCRW - and landed at Jerry's fantastic art-filled tropical abode that would be yet another PERFECT locale for a Jonifest ;-) Jerry took me on a tour of the city and I was gaga at every turn. So many neighborhoods and sections of the town with an eclectic mix of architecture from the turn of the century to the 50s has been renovated and restored and is alive and thriving. There are wonderful cafes, performance places, art galleries and interesting shops everywhere. We had a great dinner at a wonderful little cafe with an outdoor patio that reminded me a bit of Les Deux Cafes Florida Beach style. It was all wonderful and the clean air and great company did me good. I'm sorry I did not have more time there to party more with Jerry and see Jimmy and Ed, and I'm also sorry I didn't realize until too late that Maurice also lives close by! Ah well, there's always a chance I might have to return for work, so maybe next time. What a nice area - wow. I also forayed over to Ybor City, a small area originally settled by Spanish and Cuban immigrants which has been restored and is a hot spot in Tampa. Lots of cigar shops and bars, live jazz and blues, art and great restaurants. It reminded me of a mini-Nawlins. I found a great shop there where I dropped the bulk of my tourist dollars on martini glasses, and martini themed-napkins, Christmas cards and ornaments - ah, the mother lode! ;-D Thanks again to Jerry and let's start planning that Fest, eh? ;-) Kakki ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 17 Nov 2000 20:39:58 EST From: RoseMJoy@aol.com Subject: The Beatles:Revolution tonight on ABC NJC The Beatles: Revolution is on Channel 7 this evening. It started at 8:00 est. In their classic song “Revolution,” the Beatles sang, “You say you want a revolution, well you know, we all want to change the world.” Like no music group before or since, the Fab Four did exactly that. Archival footage of the band, newsreel clips and comments by celebrities ranging from Bono to Salman Rushdie and Tim Allen to Christy Turlington celebrate the Beatles' impact in this ABC Entertainment-VH1 co-production. Bono feels the group's influence musically (he says, “the Beatles invented U2 in so many ways”) and culturally, saying they inspired a generation to feel that “you could come from a little neighborhood and take over the world---or [your] ideas could take over the world.” 120 minutes long. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 17 Nov 2000 22:43:20 -0300 From: "Wally Kairuz" Subject: RE: imagine NJC super!!!!!!!!! come home to argentina sistah! wallio - -----Mensaje original----- De: owner-joni@jmdl.com [mailto:owner-joni@jmdl.com]En nombre de mags Enviado el: Viernes, 17 de Noviembre de 2000 09:08 p.m. Para: Ken; joni@smoe.org Asunto: Re: imagine NJC and with our federal election only a week or so away, we are all watching with baited breath what Doris Day (formally known as Stockwell Day) has to say. He is one scary homophobic, racist sick puppy b****** and Im leaving the country if he gets elected. That ok with y'all??? mags. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 17 Nov 2000 21:34:12 EST From: LSThomas42@aol.com Subject: Thanks Wally! NJC Dear Wally, Yikes! I was shocked to read my name as a subject line! Thanks for the Happy Birthday -- in the spirit of the list I took the afternoon off, started the Patricia Cornwell novel and then went to an Italian restaurant with a group of friends for wine and live local jazz - it's not Joni, but for a Thursday night in Boise, Idaho it's not bad!! Thanks for remembering me! Susan Thomas ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 18 Nov 2000 00:30:51 EST From: Dflahm@aol.com Subject: Re: Books NJC My favorite Robertson Davies novel is not part of any trilogy. It's about musicians and is called A MIXTURE of FRAILTIES. I have enjoyed several of his works over the last 25 years. David Lahm ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 18 Nov 2000 01:59:27 -0500 From: "patrick leader" Subject: RE: What do you like to read (NJC) i've had 'an equal music' on my hope to/maybe list for a while. didn't read 'suitable boy', but vikram seth wrote a book in the '80s called 'golden gate', a somewhat light northern california soap opera, except for the fact that whole novel was written as a series of 14-line sonnets (that may be redundant). they weren't in the typical shakespeare rhyme scheme, they were in the same scheme as 'eugene onegin'. it sounds like a parlor trick, and reading it felt like that for about half of the first chapter, then the story grabbed me. yes, i looked at each sonnet as i read, and marvelled how he could keep doing it, but that would get my defenses down and i'd get to know the characters better, and care more for them. a really lovely, favorite book. patrick ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 17 Nov 2000 23:01:07 -0800 From: Robert Holliston Subject: Re: Books NJC Hi David! Actually, A MIXTURE OF FRAILTIES is the final novel in The Salterton Trilogy. Written during the 1950s and set in a fictional yet somehow typical small Ontario city, it was the first Davies trilogy. The other novels are Tempest-Tost and Leaven of Malice. Mixture of Frailties was the first Robertson Davies novel I ever read: have re-read it several times since and loved it, but will always remember the delight and surprise I felt that first time. Needless to say, it's a favorite among my opera singer friends!! best, Roberto Dflahm@aol.com wrote: > My favorite Robertson Davies novel is not part of any trilogy. It's about > musicians and is called A MIXTURE of FRAILTIES. I have enjoyed several of his > works over the last 25 years. > David Lahm ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 17 Nov 2000 23:02:51 -0800 From: Robert Holliston Subject: what we're reading these days (njc) What an interesting thread! I've been reading and re-reading the novels of Robertson Davies for many years, and agree with Patrick Leader that the Deptford trilogy is his masterpiece. Also, as a devotee of Jane Austen, I agree with Mark that Northanger Abbey is the weakest of her novels. Margaret Drabble once wrote that the discovery of a new Austen novel would be second only to the discovery of a new Shakespeare play. Pride and Prejudice is a personal favorite, but I love Persuasion even more. Also Mansfield Park, considered her "difficult" novel, but very rewarding. (Another interesting appraisal of Jane Austen from Virginia Woolf: "Of all the great writers, she's the most difficult to catch at the act of being great." That's quite an endorsement!) These days, I've been reading a lot of short stories (Canada seems to have produced several story writers of genuine distinction!) First and foremost, Flannery O'Connor, IMHO the greatest writer from the South. If you've never read her disturbing masterpiece A Good Man is Hard to Find, you should. Also William Trevor, an Irish writer with the great gift of capturing a whole world in only a few pages of storytelling. Alice Munro, Mavis Gallant, and Margaret Laurence ("A Bird in the House") are my favorite Canadian short story writers. Then there's a New Zealander, and a great writer of short stories: Katherine Mansfield. ("The Doll's House" is so great and powerful, but every effect she achieves and every point she makes is done with such subtlety...) Moving to Faulkner one of these days! Cheers, you all! Roberto ------------------------------ End of JMDL Digest V2000 #613 ***************************** ------- Post messages to the list by clicking here: mailto:joni@smoe.org Unsubscribe by clicking here: mailto:joni-digest-request@smoe.org?body=unsubscribe ------- Siquomb, isn't she?